 Hello and welcome to the news clip. Very recently, the Central Bureau of Investigation and the Enforcement Directorate have filed a case against the Center for Promotion of Social Concerns and its program unit, The People's Watch, which are based from Tamil Nadu. They have been alleged of violating the Foreign Contributions Regulation Act and have been booked under two sections of the IPC as well. The organizations have been very vocal about the violations of human rights across the country and particularly from Tamil Nadu and have been involved in creating awareness among the public and college students on human rights. To discuss more on the background, we have with us Mr. Henry Tepin, the Executive Director of People's Watch. Welcome sir. Welcome. So, to begin with the CPSC and the People's Watch are being accused of violating the Foreign Contributions Regulation Act at CRA 2010 and cases are being filed as per IPC 120 v and 420. So, what is your comments on this and what do you think is the reason behind the action taken now after a very long delay? Well, when the CBI officers came to my office on the 8 with a search warrant, I warmly welcomed them and told them that they were 10 years late. They were exactly 10 years late. Now, when I told them they were 10 years late, I had something in mind. Unfortunately, I don't know whether they knew it and I told them we are, we go by the rule of law and therefore we have to abide by the rule of law. You have come with a search warrant, I signed a search order of the CBI, of the CBI court and I have no problem in sharing with you documents. The only thing is that I would have to call my accountant today who's physically not here because of some family religious ceremonies that day. They did complete the ceremonies fast and I did all these calls in front of them so that they don't think that we are, we delay them like some politicians delay different people, some force them to jump water, some force them to go into forest etc. We said we are here and within one hour I think they had all the documents that they wanted and it seems it was being downloaded from the lofts and made available to them. They were quite happy with the cooperation they got. They seized about 12 documents and have left saying that they will come back again and even they come back we will give them more documents as they please. But the problem is and what is important is not that they came here and we cooperated but they have come here after the government of Tamil Nadu had told them in July 2012 that they will be able to investigate the case. So there should have been an investigation by the government of Tamil Nadu and the government of the AIADMJ will have to give us or give the public the knowledge of what they did from 2012 till 2020 when they were in power. And this is a parliament response by the Minister of State for Home Affairs who says so and it is during their tenure that on 2012-2020 as stated in the first information report which has been made available to the public by the CBI itself on its website that everybody knows that on the second CIO 9 that was passed where the additional Chief Secretary to government has signed it by order of the governor approving the investigation of this case to be handed over to the CBI. Now you hand over to the CBI something that you cannot do but this GEO does not state what they have done from 2012 onwards till 2020 and that is what is disturbing for me. So you come 10 years late you come with an FAIR and this was 2020 December you take one year to register the FAIR after the GEO one year or little more than one year and thereafter you come with the day you register your FAIR then you start acting you know very fast. So this is not something which is very interesting that way number one number two sir we were before them at Delhi High Court the Ministry of Home Affairs came to our office after our suspension in the month of July 2012 2012 they came to our office on two occasions each time five time five people five days eight to eight very intensive work and I appreciate them they were always very polite there was no lack of politeness from the officers who came to the field we also provided them all the documents that they wanted after all that they have got falsity in their FAIR falsity in their FAIR if I read the FAIR I will be tearing it into pieces and therefore I don't want to talk about the FAIR the we were suspended on 16 7 2012 for the first time we were there after suspended again we were there after suspended again on February 18th 2013 and yet a third time on 16th of September 2013 each suspension is 180 days now the law is very clear sir in 2020 the legislation said one suspension of 180 days the ministry gave us three suspensions one after another today in 2020 the act has been amended to make way for two suspensions but I already suffered three suspensions during the period of the third suspension sir I went to the supreme I went to the Delhi High Court why did I go to the Delhi High Court because the ministry of home affairs is within the jurisdiction of the Delhi High Court and therefore there I got an order in 2014 on the 9th of May 2014 which I have with me here which I can make available to you where the court says in the meantime if no fresh suspension has been passed under section so the petitioner shall be at liberty to operate its bank accounts so and so so so if I have a person who commits crimes of conspiracy cheating and transgressing the foreign contribution regulation act would the court say this the court has repeated it on these 16th of September sorry July 2014 and I lead para para four which is very interesting to you para four which I hope you will be able to see that which says moreover ministry of home affairs dated in their communication dated 10th of June 2014 directed ministry directed the branch manager of the above mentioned bank that in compliance of the order of 95 which I showed you earlier the foreign contribution designated bank accounts so and so of central promotion of social concerns may be allowed to be operated it's not a court order it's an order of the ministry of home affairs arey what is this who's playing who's playing hot and cold here in 2014 2014 you permit me first court permitted me you say you have no objection and that is how the red petition that we filed selling in the three suspensions was closed so if I have been somebody who was committed an offense and a criminal my goodness me should they not have said it in court in the counter is it that by the ministry of home affairs that we have is it that negligent foreign contribution regulation act unit that we have in the ministry I'm sorry sir I don't like to speak poorly of the efficiency of my government but that is what I what it is therefore my bank accounts were operated in 14 operated fully in 15 operated fully in 16 till 29th of October 2010 2016 when our renewal certificate was prevented I therefore went back to court challenging the renewal certificate when I filed a red petition in 2016 the first thing the government has to do is to ensure that they file a counter in the court instead of that what they did very interestingly they were in a syndrome of suspension suspension to CPSC suspension to CPSC suspension to CPSC where three now is the fourth suspension to CPSC so I asked them when there is FCRA you can suspend but when there is no FCRA on the 29th of October by your order what are you suspending and we filed a red petition and immediately they gave a bid trial I don't know whether you can see it withdrawal of so-called notice and suspension on the 17th of May and the repetition that I filed came to a close there by after which they filed a counter sir now what will you expect in the counter sir you will expect something financial the counter reads as follows in the year 2011-2013 and I got it here I'm not making it up it is their counter and I will also show you that it has been signed by the deponent here who is an undersecretary in the Ministry of Home Affairs now on the 17th of January 2017 and there they say sir which is most important they say the truth comes out here in the year 2011 to 2013 Henry DeFayne Executive Director of People's Watch was noticed to be receiving foreign contributions what is this for you to notice it is it is there on the website before the foreign contribution regulation act wanted us to put our receipts for 10 years in advance we had our accounts on the website of People's Watch I was inspired by Aruna Roy I was inspired by the ordinary four people of Rajasthan who fought for the Right to Information Act and I said as a rights activist if they can do this then as an NGO which is not covered by the RTI Act I must put my accounts which are audited on the website the government demanded it in 2010 I did it much earlier and I'm proud of it nobody asked me to do it and he says he was found Henry DeFayne was found to be providing material and information to the UN Special Rapporteurs and the US Embassy and British High Commission Officials portraying India's work India's human rights record in negative light on the basis of that funding you don't need funding sir to write a letter to the United Nations today even attending United Nations meetings I don't need to fly to Geneva you do it online all our communication with the Special Rapporteurs are always by email I don't need any funding to do that but unfortunately the ministry's officials are so poorly informed that they put this in writing and make my government a laughing stock in the international sphere then they say Father Henry DeFayne was using foreign contribution to the detriment of India's image by using foreign money he marked himself and his organization CPSC as a defender of human rights I don't need foreign money to start to make me a defender my dear friend from 2012 onwards till today 2600 days my foreign FCRA account has been closed except for that period when I got a court order opening it have I stopped working for human rights 600 complaints have filed before the NHRC on behalf of defenders which also include journalists did I need foreign money for that I need an email I need an investigating and I need people like you to support across the country and of course it is put in my name not because I do the work because I'm willing to take the blame that's all I don't do the work there are many people like you in different parts of the country who do the work that is the protection of human rights work it has to be that therefore this is the reason why the FCRA went this is the same reason now in spite of not having FCRA we cannot control this step we will give them a CBA case is the price I've got in 2022 I'm happy to take this as a challenge because we are people of tough character not because we want to be ruled not because we want to be arrogant not because we want not something goes into our head we always need to be humbled but we need to be powerful we need to be truthful we need to be credible and that we will continue to react and if they think that their CBA investigation will stop me talking I'm sorry that is a wrong strategy they'll have to try something else what is sad sir is my trustees who trust us are very very important people our trustee up to 2012 was Mr. Vain Gopal IAS who happened to be the personal secretary to prime minister V.P Singh and resigned from that position he was later NHRC special rapporteur now he has been made an accused because he was a trustee during that period Mr. Binu Mkotari a UN special rapporteur formerly of on housing is a is a present trustee Mr. P.V. Rajiv Gopal of of of egg operation who led the the land rates much up to Agra you remember that person with lakhs and lakhs of Ali Vasis he is a trustee I have a number of college professors who are trustees I have a number of lawyers who are trustees I have a great Uranus and you being from Tamil Nadu you know Mr. Muta Krishnamurthy professor Muta Krishnamurthy he is known only as Muta Krishnamurthy because he was the secretary general of the Madurai University teachers association he is a trustee I am the president of the YMCA national YMCA formally Mr. Arsatya Murthy as as a trustee I am a retired professor of Tamil Dr. I. Devasek I am as one of my trustees I can go on on this list but what is most important is that they are all made accused today is that fair is that fair for people of this this repute who have come out to stand it for human rights is this what they want I am sorry we are cutting a story here it's cutting a very sorry figure you you have any quarrels with me you you do anything to me don't do it to my trustees and because of these trustees and because we had a chartered accountant of of the best caliber in the country Dr. M. Khandasamy that our accounts are above gold and I will say this at the top of a hat and I want to tell you that our business of transparency and accountability cannot match the FCRA I used to before the bank account was closed every year have a committee of concerned citizens in Madurai city to whom we will use to own our bank account the bank every year there were professors some of them are members of parliament later became members of parliament Mr. Viswanathan who later became a member of parliament of of Sripuramudu constituency of the congress party it was in Madurai was a member lots of people were members former IAS, former IPS, former national NHRC secondary general, former home ministry secretary all of them were members not to see accounts to see account books accounts audited accounts were presented but account books were presented along with vouchers who does that sir who does that can you ask me one NGO in Tamil Nadu one NGO in Tamil Nadu who opened their vouchers opened their vouchers opened their salary slips who opened their income tax paid who opened the PF paid and all these are people who are in government positions and therefore they used to make recommendations and my my account unit will say sorry over time we are asking for these people each time they are giving us new new ideas which means more work for us I said the higher standards of accounting is what protects the human rights organization so we are not somebody who can indulge in the type of accusations made against us the ED to claim the enforcement directorate came asked for my wife's account my daughter's account my son-in-law's account and my account we gave all that I've got the love and affection and the support and solidarity of people of my state and the country that is extremely costly that is the sotu I have and I'm proud I have that we don't need to do frauds like this to take money which is given to us as trustees in trusteeship to do human rights work my human rights work of taking human rights edict to our schools in our state must stop sir not in Tamil Nadu alone 22 states has the government has the NHRC done it has any state human rights commission done it with all humanity I say we did it continue to do it sir because we believe this is our duty fundamental duty under 51 a of the constitution we will then you proceed against us we have no problem we will face it that is the cost one has to pay if the constitution and the rights in our constitution are to be protected the CPC and people's watch have raised their voice against the violations of human rights and have played a very crucial role in several incidents in Tamil Nadu as well do you think that your proactive role is being recent for being targeted by the government or the government organizations well I think the question is posed to the wrong person but I had an answer in 2012 they told me you had supported the Kudangulam protest I thought it is the the worst thing that would be told to me the Kudangulam protest for those who accused me at that time was carried on by thousands of women thousands of future women they are the they are the vandals of the anti Kudangulam protest if we have succeeded it may not have succeeded don't forget that alternative sources of energy in Tamil Nadu which the Adhanis are are are coming to invest the movement towards that came from the protest of Kudangulam don't forget that don't forget that I went to Kudangulam yes they asked me when they came for investigation did you go I said yes I went when did you go I said I went on 17th September you said how is it that you remember I said sir for you dates doesn't matter for me it matters on the 10th of September the Tamil Nadu police killed seven Dalits in a firing in Paramaguri on the 11th of September Uday Kumar my good friend Uday Kumar launched this protest on one day and then he continued it from the 11th onwards and I heard that 200 women were on a fast unto death and they had drips on the stage of Kudangulam I was very moved I said people cannot die for protesting I called Nidumaran Iya I called Mr. P. Nidumaran Nidumaran and I told him Iya I'm going there I'm going to see and if it is somebody who has been forced into a protest will you come if they want to close their protest to come and give them the language you said Henry you go there and then come and report to me I'll be there sure I'll be there I went to Kudangulam sir on the 17th of September why 17 because for seven days I was in Paramaguri I went on the 17th and to my shock and surprise sir I saw that there were 200 women on the on the stage there were many who had drips but there were 20,000 women gathered in front of them I said what a big fool I am we all think we know great things there were 20,000 women who were protesting they did not need a Henry Define there to protect them they knew how to protect them better I came back that was my visit to Kudangulam I thought what in my FCR why should they use Kudangulam as an excuse what did I do in Kudangulam did Kudangulam people need our money did Kudangulam people need our legal assistance did Kudangulam people need to know how to struggle because of us they carried on their peaceful protest and they are they are they are they are they are political acts for what they did so that was the false so what was the truth I did not know that this was the truth but later I came to know that the IAW the Research and Analysis Wing had an entry in my file in the Ministry of Home Affairs and the entry was what my association with the UN Special Rapporteur on Human Rights Defended as Margaret Sagakya who visited India from the first to the 11th of January 2012 sorry 2011 and she came out of the report and I took her I took her to Gujarat Modi was Chief Minister there she went to Jammu she went to Srinagar she was in Delhi she was in Bhuvaneshwar she was in Kolkata she was in Gawati in Gawati she met the brother of Hiram Sarmida who had conducted a 16-year struggle against Afswa the report was a strong report of course very difficult for the government to stomach the second the National Human Rights Commission in the year 2011 had to submit its report for accreditation to the global alliance of national human rights institutions we came out with an alternative report on the National Human Rights Commission and just trying to see whether it falls into my into my eye somewhere but it doesn't and that alternative report was released in the Constitution Club by none other than Justice Verma a former member chairperson of the NHHRC of course the NHHRC had difficult times after that and a member of the NHHRC who the former police officer who served two terms one term under recommended by Vajpayee's ministry second term recommended by Anwar Singh's ministry this was a gentleman who wanted to teach entity fair in a lesson and ensured that the FCR event that was the reason sir so if they thought that they could shut my mouth they realized in the years that they cannot shut my mouth I am nobody compared to the thousands of people who continue to be in prison sir and I think people like us have to humble ourselves and humble our work we're looking at the Adivasis the directs the Muslims of our country and the intellectuals who are called urban naxals today who are in prison and who die in prison I'm nothing nothing compared to them and therefore there's much more to be done to do what the NHHRC refuses to do to do what the 179 national and state human rights institutions of our country are negligent of not doing it's our duty to do that and we will we are inspired by leaders we are inspired you see behind me KG Kannabaran we are inspired by personalities like him and Balagopal who's below and my mother who's there these are our source of inspiration to continue a hard but committed inspiring life of protecting the rights of the poorest of the poor and at any cost we will do it sir