 This program is brought to you by Cable Franchise Vs and generous donations from viewers like you My name is Christine Graham Mullen and as chair of the Amherst Planning Board. I am calling this meeting to order at 632 PM this meeting is being recorded and is available live stream via Amherst media Minutes are being taken as normal. I will now take a roll call board members as you hear your name Called unmute yourself answer affirmatively and then please place yourself back on mute Michael Burt whistle. I'm here Hurry up. Ciao. You're Jack gem sick You're Doug Marshall You're Janet McGowan here Thank you board members if technical difficulties arise We may need to pause temporarily to rectify the problem and then continue the meeting if you do have technical issues Please let Sean or Pam know Discussion may be suspended while the technical issues are addressed and the minutes will know if a disconnection has occurred Please use the raise hand function to answer a question or to make a comment I will see your raised hand and call upon you to speak after speaking Please try to remember to remute yourself opportunity for public comment will be provided during the General public comment period and at other times throughout the meeting Please be aware the board will not respond to comments during the general public comment period If you do wish to make a comment during the any of the public comment periods You must join the meeting via the zoom teleconferencing link This link is shown on the slide and can be entered into a search engine the link can also be found on the On the meeting agenda which is located on the town website in two ways One is through the calendar listing for this meeting on the home page And you can find a link within the event details a second way is to go to the planning board Web page and click on the most recent agenda link on the agenda There is a link towards the top of the page where it states virtual meeting Please indicate you wish to make a comment by clicking the raise hand button when the public comment is solicited If you join the zoom meeting using a telephone Please indicate you wish to make a comment by pressing star nine on your telephone When called upon please identify yourself stating your full name and address and put yourself back in mute when finished speaking Residents are welcome to express their views for up to three minutes And if the discretion of the planning board share if these guidelines are not Complied with or the speaker exceeds there are a lot of time their participation will be disconnected from the meeting Included on tonight's agenda item three public hearing site plan review The board will continue the public hearing for Amherst media's SPR application to construct a new home office building Which is being continued from July 15th Additionally, the board will open public hearing for SPP 2021-01 submitted by Amherst media to request a front setback modification environment The SPP and SPR public hearings will be combined as a joint public hearing for the purpose of discussion Moving on the slide will now show the meeting agenda again note the virtual zoom meeting link We will now move on to item one, which is minutes and we actually have two sets of minutes to reveal Here so I have We have June 3rd minutes from that and June 17th We'll start with June 3rd and I'm watching for any hands. Are there any comments or additions that anyone would like to make? Chris I see your hand first Chris so Janet McGowan sent me some comments about the June 3rd meeting. I can read them to you now if you're ready for that So on page 11 paragraph 4 in the second sentence Miss McGowan would like it to read miss McGowan expressed concern that the proposed process does not provide Notification to a butters neighbors or nearby businesses And that seems fine to me So that's item one item two is on page 12 at the very top of the page The first paragraph Miss McGowan added she asked about voting requirements on the planners listserv Other towns with a super majority voting requirement reported that it was not usually a problem But at times it can be a problem to have a quorum So meetings were rescheduled for a vote and that seems fine to me too in terms of content Okay, thank you Chris. Are there I'm watching for hands Are there any other members who have comments to the June 3rd minutes? And if I'm not seeing any hands, I Could also take a motion Michael There we go. I move to approve the motion of the minutes as Suggested amendments by miss Brescher Okay, is there a second? second All right any other discussion on these June 3rd minutes I'm not seeing any hands. I still Michael yours is still up, but um, so at this point we can take a vote I'll do a quick roll call I said she'd already All right, so um For the June 3rd minutes to accept them with the changes Michael Burt whistle. Yes, Maria Jack Yes, Doug Yes, Janet Yes, and myself Christine. Yes, so that's six zero zero So if we move to the next one June 17th again, I'm watching hands. Does anyone have any comments or additions they would Like to make on the June 17th Doug Yeah, one brief brief Minor edit on page 11 The first paragraph under board comments and discussion Second line The what the lines I would like it to read Band on the facade that separates the stone and the siting so that it aligns with The second the first floor level I'm yeah, and where is that you said page 11 Page 13. Oh, okay Thank you. Can you read that again, please? So that it aligns with the first floor level Thank you Is that all Doug? I'm not seeing any other hands. I could also take a motion anyone uh, michael I want to approve the motion the minutes as amended I will second okay great any other comments concerns. I'm watching for hands I'm gonna lower michael's ears. Um, so I see no hands. So at this point, uh, we'll take a quick roll call So to approve the June 17th minutes as amended Michael Yes Maria Yes Jack Yes Doug All right Janet Yes And myself so that's six zero zero approved great And thank you both Chris and Pam for joining me. They're both very long and Detailed thank you Okay, so we will move to item Item three public comment period. So this is um Pam if you can start looking this is a time where um Attendees can address the board for something that's not on our agenda for tonight something different Um, they want to bring to us attention and just remember that We don't give a response back, but we will listen Uh, Pam, do we see anybody in there with uh raised hand? I'm not seeing any I don't see any raised hands and we have um, nobody who has called in at this point Okay, great. So at this point, I see no public comment. We'll move on. What time is it? Yep, six 41 so we can definitely start our public hearing Okay, so I'm going to move mr. Sparklin Okay, great Let me see. All right. I'll start Okay, so it is six 41 in accordance with the provisions of mgl chapter 40 this public hearing has been Duly advertised and notice thereof has been posted and is being held for the purpose of providing the opportunity for interested citizens To be heard regarding SPR 2011 Amherst community television dba at Amherst media corner of gray street and main street continued from july 1st and july 15th 2020 request site plan review approval to construct a new building and associated Site improvements for Amherst media a 501c 3 educational institution under section 3.3 0.0 of the zoning bylaw bn zoning district map 14 b harcels 250 and 251 Same time. I'm also going to open um, a special permit spp. So um, now it is Um, both of these were um combined and advertised at the same time So not six 42 in accordance with provisions of mgl chapter 40a This public hearing has been duly advertised and notice thereof has been posted This hearing is being held for the purpose of providing an opportunity for interested citizens to be heard regarding spp 2021-01 Amherst community television dba Amherst media corner of gray street and main street Request a special permit under footnote a of table 3 6 of the zoning bylaw to modify the front setback requirement If required for a new building for Amherst media bn zoning district map 14 b parcels 250 and 251 So with them both combined, uh, first thing i'm going i'm watching for hands Are there any board? board member disclosures I'm not seeing any but i'll continue to watch Welcome welcome. Mr. Sparkle. I see you there Good evening. You have different things hanging behind you now. I try to keep it interesting. Yeah, thank you Thank you for that. Um, is there anyone else that you need here? Are you expected will also be presenting or talking? Um, I did send a list to pam I'm expecting that jim. Let's go the executive director of Amherst media would be available There may be other members of the board Uh with him, um, I also know that due to the power outage a couple people who would normally be here are not able to be here tonight But I don't think we're worried about it at this time Okay, um, bucky Do you want me to move jim? Let's go in as a panelist now. Do you want me to wait until you tell me to? How do you want that to work? If you're able, please bring him in at this point and I'm sure jim will use restraint and Speak up if if he feels it's it's pertinent. You know, he is my boss after all on this Okay, I'll move him. Let's move him in and I can tell I can tell you who else is over here Um as severance. Oh, Ed made it great. Sure. Would you like him to come on into? Yes, please Um, and I believe that is it's unless somebody is is logged in with a different name Um, and if they are they can raise their hand and let me know. I'll be watching. Okay. Thank you Sure Okay, um, so do you want to share your screen or okay? Get this roll in And give us a heads up if there's anything we need to pull out of our packet Um to look at I don't think so. Um, my the presentation is not uh extremely long In fact, I'll probably spend more time reading things on my screen than extemporaneously going off on tangents here. So Um, let me let me just get into it here Um Again, I'm bucky representing Amherst media and gilling collaborative architects is also around Sometimes maybe not tonight to uh support this process and was the designer for the building Um, first, uh, since this is a joint meeting I want to focus on the site plan review This is my only slide for the site plan Um from the continuation from two weeks ago. There were a few requests at the board made There was lots of discussion, but there's just a few requests One, they wanted to see the parking management plan as a separate document that was separated and submitted Um with a very minor edit basically that there was also the request for two spaces to be labeled as guest parking And those spaces are number seven and eight and those are the two that are on the east side against gray street So we'll have guest parking signs for those two spaces And there was a question about whether or not the roof was solar ready and yes indeed it is designed to be solar ready And as far as I know, that was everything that came out of that meeting that required a response from me Um, uh today I did get a copy of a letter from uh attorney matt massingill Which I just want to bring up. Um, he mentioned, uh propane trucks and fueling In that letter that he wrote and maybe you've had a chance to read it or not But I just want to point out that there are no propane tanks on the site And that his hypothetical concern regarding what would happen if a truck showed up to fuel Um is not a concern because there's nothing to fill There is no propane tank. No Okay, yes, and um and really that wraps up the the site plan review portion of my presentation tonight because really what's new on the table is the special permit That has been um in much discussion. So moving into that Yes, embers media is absolutely a 501c3 educational nonprofit Use functionality institution or whatever you want to call it And by law 6.60 does say that educational religious uses shall have the minimum front side rear setbacks Of twice the distance shown in table three, which is the dimensional regulations in article six normally these the front setback would be 10 feet And if by law 6.60 were enforced to this application and that would be 20 feet Which has as previously discussed would be problematic for the current layout And go contrary to what the local historic district commission was hoping to achieve However, of course, I think we all know that footnote a Of table three says that the setbacks can be modified under special permit By the special permit granting authority, which in this case is the planning board. So that's what we're doing here today. Hopefully So we are requesting a reduction in that setback requirement such that the building may sit where proposed And to look at that The familiar side of the site plan I'll zoom in a little bit just to the front of the building because it's really what is sort of the hot topic here So presently the building sits at closest 13.3 feet from the front setback to main street Some of it sits back almost 26 feet actually the majority of the building And this is over 31 feet from the front lot line over on the east side So just to give people a sense of what we're talking about for this site specifically But you know when we're looking at these things it's it's in relationship to the neighborhood as I'll as I'll bring up a few times here So in one case We have location. Okay, so the the local historic district commission also did write a letter of support which I've brought up a few times over the last few meetings And one of the sentences in that uh, I say report. It was really a letter I think I said report, but it was a letter and it said that um, the location on the site The massing of the proposed building were very important considerations for the commission because these attributes make the structure consistent with the character of the historic district, so Uh, we have already located things according to the historic district commission In an optimal manner regarding placement on the property and looking relative to the neighborhood in a larger scale, not just our site What I've done is I've prepared a little sketch based off of The town of Amherst GIS system Which shows buildings across the street Um on main street In the historic district well, most of them are and the front setbacks are nine feet nine feet That's also nine feet, but it's really the same building. This one's 15 feet That's the biggest of them and this one is negative two feet Which means it's actually encroaching into the public right away and on average these buildings are 7.75 feet From the front property line and Amherst media is proposing 13.3 feet. So almost twice what the Average is in the area and almost as large as the largest setback in the the one block area of commercial district so we are A little more generous on our setback as proposed then is you know, it's sort of experienced in the neighborhood currently So that's how we sit relative to the neighborhood But then also then comparing the use the educational use of Amherst media like yes, it is an educational Facility, but it's much more like a tutoring facility. For example, there is not a classroom in this building And most educational facilities would definitely have classrooms. So it's not a typical educational use You know, if you're talking about UMass or a high school or Amherst college, you know, these buildings are off for imposing fairly fairly large structures Simultaneously sometimes they can have hundreds of visitors in in large classrooms or Scores of visitors in multiple classrooms And normally the properties of of these institutions, you know have have ample room They they have a little more wiggle room than Amherst media has And looking at the proposal that i'm presenting tonight, you know, it's a fairly unassertive building It has been designed in residential scale with the buildings on gray street and have a Diminutive commercial feel smaller than some of the buildings across the street that are commercial buildings Only getting a handful of visitors at a time quite literally like no more than five usually on people in this building at a time And it's a very modest lot area. It's it's only just over a half acre So, you know, we don't quite fit the the typical Educational facility, which you know makes sense if you have a giant building with uh, you know, 15 000 foot Bookprint and You know several stories tall You know doubling the setback makes an awful lot of sense in that case. It does not make sense in the case of Amherst media And that ties into what some of the town's experts have said The building commissioner wrote in a determination Last month and quote in my opinion section 6.6 of the zoning by-law does not apply And the additional setback is not required And the town attorney Backed that up just a few days ago saying I interpret the building commissioners determination to be finding that it would not be a reasonable regulation to apply section 6.6 and zero To this project given the site the proposed use and the foreseeable impacts and so on In my opinion, this determination is when within the building commissioners discretion So in some ways if if we just listen to what the experts said the special permit isn't even necessary That we're sort of doing a belt and suspenders approach with the additional special permit process Because we just want to make sure that we cover all the possible bases that we can For this overall project to move forward as proposed and design in conjunction with the local historic district commission I'm looking at the by-law a little bit Under by law 10 38 specific findings required for special permits Um, there are 19 items this proposal does comply with all of them And I do want to point out a couple and the first one is 10.391 Which indicates that the proposal should protect the historic features in the area And the entire site design the shape size mass of the building have all been Very finely tuned through the seven meeting process with the historic district commission It that the whole design is predicated upon protecting the historic features of this neighborhood Um, obviously we were not blocking the important views on the west side of the lot The building has been brought down and the architectures in line With what would be expected for the emily dickinson historic district Going a little further Into both sort of the findings section and table three bringing these ideas together And the findings 10.395 Says that the proposal should not create disharmony with respect to the train and the use scale In architecture of existing buildings in the vicinity which have functional or visual relationship there, too And I bring this one up because footnote a brings this one up And it says in applying the criteria established in section 10.395 The special permit granting authority shall consider the proposed modified dimensional requirements in the context and patterns Of that same and I've got my screen blocked off with all your faces here. I gotta move that In the context and pattern to the same dimensions established by existing buildings In the surrounding neighborhood, so I've already shown that we are more generous in the setback in Doubling the setback Is would be significantly at a step with the existing surrounds Which really then sort brings me to the the end of this brief portion here, you know, just I surely do not need to remind the board in purpose of special permits Is you know to ensure a harmonious relationship between proposed development and the surroundings And that of course is consistent with the purpose intent of the bylaw Which certainly we don't have to get into So I do want to say that the Proposal the building the location the scale the massing is harmoniously integrated with the surroundings That's already been assured by the local historic district commission's review As well as protecting the historic interests of the district And that the educational use of amherst media is nothing like the use and functionality Of the middle school or or umass or amherst college buildings So this is the reason that we are requesting a special permit per note a of table three for this project as we have offered it And that concludes my presentation to the board and I'm happy to open the discussion now. Thank you Thank you. And is there um anyone else from amherst media who wants to speak at this time? I don't see any hands All right, thank you. Thank you for that information At this time, um, and if you don't mind just leaving your screen up in case One of the board members has a question on one of the slides So I'll open it up to the board members right now Does anyone have questions on this new information? Um, can also be questions to chris bestra Regarding the special permit And any administrative or internal questions? I see jack jump six hand I was just wondering about the argument with the propane Um Tank um submitted by the butters one of the butters representative there. Um, was there some confusion? I'm just trying to recall. Was there some confusion in terms of initial submittal referencing propane deliveries or where did that come from? I guess is my question Um, I am not sure where that came from our plan has never shown a propane tank. In fact, the plan has always shown the uh The mystical gas connection. So we've we've always indicated that if it's available, we might make a gas connection And the architects have been working with mechanicals that could potentially work off of a gas system if we're available But nobody on our end of the table is really interested in a propane tank I think it has been discussed at the meeting somehow It's temporarily and I I can't put my finger in my memory as to how that came up But uh, it's it's we're not interested. We don't have room for we don't have it on the plans never had So how is the building being heated? electricity okay Okay, are there any other? Board questions at this time I'm not seeing any hands If not, we could move on to Move on to the public comment So at this time, I'll ask, uh, attendees. I don't think we have too many, but um, if I could see a show of hands in our attendees Who would like to speak? um tonight I'm just watching just to say I'm seeing one hand Okay, so I see one hand. Uh, Pam, I'm sure you see that so I'm gonna Let's do it. Do we have any calls just Just I'm not seeing any calls. So I I just see the one The one hand attorney finnigan Okay, well, I'll recognize mr finnigan Uh I think he's still muted So can you hear me now? We can welcome if you can introduce yourself Sure. Thank you very much. Uh, daniel finnigan. I'm an attorney and I represent the abutter harms by llc Just just very very briefly. I just want to make a couple of comments one I just want to point out that the At the setback requirement can't be complied with it's just Further evidence that the project as we've stated before just appears to us to be too large for A lot on which is proposed to be situated. So I just like to make that comment again for the record Then also for the record, I'd just like to note that um, we disagree that the appropriate mechanism to vary that setback requirement Is a special permit in front of the planning board and again, I just make that comment for the record. That's all Uh, thank you Uh Are there any other hands? I'm not seeing any other hands So, um, I'm gonna Close the public comment. Pam still no phone calls or anything. So this Okay, so this would be closing public comment for both the site plan review and the special permit I'm going back to the panelists. Um I'm gonna ask are there any other questions. Okay. I see a couple of hands popping up Michael and then I see jack Thank you, I'd like to ask, uh, mr. Finnegan to explain why he finds the setback, uh We were inappropriate He's still Okay, he's Can you hear me? Yep. So we can hear you Okay, the question was why I find it inappropriate Yes, the setback well as as I say the fact that the building is this uh close And the issues we've stated with the parking lot the whole project just appears to us to be too large for the For the space and which is proposed to be located um We feel that the setback requirement is there in the bylaw for a good reason They can't be an educational use when it benefits them under the bylaw But not an educational use when it doesn't benefit them. They're an educational use They should be required to comply with the setback on the bylaw which in this case is 20 feet Okay, thank you. I'm gonna I'm gonna mute you. Thank you I'm going back. Michael is that all or should I can I move to jack? Oh, you're muted Michael. Whoops. Let me unmute you. Try again. Uh It's fine. I'm I'm uh my question is answered. Thank you. Great. All right jack Yes, uh I'm just I'm just thinking that there's there's uh In terms of uh the quote-unquote record. I was wondering if maybe uh uh Chris Breistrup could summarize all the supportive information um From the town council from rob mora um and then there's the The you know attorney letter from uh, is it might what miles Lipton or Uh, something like that. There's there's there's a uh um Kind of a significant argument how this is all okay and I just I know bucky's spec. Well, maybe bucky could just you know Retort that yeah, sorry like I don't we don't need chris to Chris go as well. She's you know, obviously she's always In acting in the interest of the town And I'm just the hired gun, but I'm I'm happy to summarize So we do have a letter an email from rob mora that says because That the real the functionality of the educational use Is is not so typical that six and six point six. So would not apply and Then the town's attorney joel bard indicated that the building commissioner's opinion Is defensible and it's his I guess right to to make that kind of determination in this case And you mentioned a letter from attorney michael pill who has represented pro bono embers media And that that letter well is it it is not in my mind quite as clearly that was in response to Kind of that come out so there there was another letter. Oh, there was letter written to the Believe was a planning board. It was there was already an appeal filed for I think this very meeting before the meeting even happened And michael pill And this is where really really we should be having a lawyer describe this but my understanding of that letter was That was we're out of order and that the indication that an appeal being filed prior to a meeting ever happening Uh, wasn't an appropriate situation So I think that's where michael pill and he's from green miles and lipped in the other attorney organization And I I very much encourage and would appreciate if chris press drop Also, either verify what i'm saying or added something if i didn't quite hit the nail on the head Yes, I would chris. Could you give us a little bit of what you know in house Town hall and with the our legal counsel So, um, am I muted or i'm unmuted? So here you are. Yep The um butters have filed an appeal with the zoning board of appeals um, and they are appealing the advisory opinion of the building commissioner and the advisory opinion of the building commissioner was that um, the front setback issue can be dealt with the uh with regard to um a special permit for modification of the Front setback, um the building commissioner also Uh had the opinion that um section 6.6 didn't apply in this case um So the uh, I think I had sent you a copy of the appeal um that the butters filed if not I apologize for that but the the thrust of mr. Pill's letter is really against the appeal that is coming before the zoning board of appeals and isn't necessarily you know speaking about The the things that you are considering other than to Support the idea that a special permit. Um if section 6.6 applies that a special permit Could be Could be filed. I think you said that but i'm not sure. Let me see Actually, he didn't even refer to the special permit Um That you are considering he really has his arguments against the applicant or the butters filing of the zoning board of appeals Appeal of the decision of the building commissioner. So it's really outside of your Realm of jurisdiction, but I wanted you to see it anyway just so that you um, you know have all the facts So the building commissioner essentially said that this building isn't really in terms of its Um practical function um, it doesn't really operate like a an educational institution or um Like UMass buildings or Amherst college buildings and he gave me the example of some of our Group homes here in Amherst and the group homes come in under the Under the use category of non-profit educational institutions And these group homes are usually for Older adults who can't function on their own and need a sort of protective environment And we never require Never even comes up to require a doubling of the setback for group homes because even though they are considered Under 501 c3. They really operate more like a home So the uh effect on the neighborhood the impact on the neighborhood the traffic the number of people coming in and out The height of the building etc. Isn't really similar to other educational institutions So that's an example of a case where something comes in under The non-profit educational institution use category, but is not required to comply with section 6.6 The other thing that um jill barred pointed out is that the Dover amendment, which um governs these non-profit educational and religious institutions Says that municipalities may apply reasonable regulations and so there's a You know differing opinions about what reasonable regulations Are but in this case the building commissioner has made a discretionary determination that The reasonable regulation in this case does not require That there be a doubling of the front setback given the impact that this building will have on its surroundings And so you can find out more about that by reading um jill barred's Email of august 2nd, which I have forwarded to you But I could um I interpret the building commissioner's determination to be a finding that it would not be Quote a reasonable regulation to apply section 6.6 to this project Given the site that proposed use of foreseeable impacts and so on but um jill barred goes on to say that even even if you find that Section 6.6 does apply in this case You can still Consider the application for the special permit under footnote a and grant that And that he would consider that A good a good thing to do. So one of the things you need to do in this case Is you need to make a finding as to whether you think section 6.6 applies or not and then After that you need to Determine whether you want to grant this special permit and in the case if you thought that section 6.6 applied Then granting the special permit would be a confirmation that you Um agreed that section that um the doubling of the that that excuse me That you will grant a modification of the setback under footnote a if you think it doesn't apply Then it's not absolutely necessary that you grant the special permit But we would recommend that you do nonetheless as a kind of built-in suspenders So in any case we think that you should um our recommendation would be to grant the special permit um and then Prior to that also make a finding about whether you think section 6.6 applies or not Does that help? That does help so um Should we do that now and discuss as members whether we find if it does apply to 6.6 regarding the special permit and um That we should go forward with this process of a special permit So i'm going to call some hands. I see I i'm going to call on dug and then janet and then I see michael so dug Yeah, I just wanted to let chris uh tell us whether uh in reference to attorney finnegan's assertion that The planning board is not the right authority to Grant a waiver of a sent back requirement Whether there are any other boards that are so empowered. Thank you. Thank you. Excellent question chris. Can you pop back on? so um ordinarily or in many cases the zoning board of appeals is the special permit granting authority They're usually listed as the special permit granting authority in the use table in this case the building commissioner has made a practice of Having dimensional modifications go to whatever board is Considering the use so in this case the planning board is considering the use of this site under a site plan review and therefore the building commissioner has sent the Special permit application to the planning board if this were a use that were Under the jurisdiction of the zoning board of appeals He would have sent the dimensional modification special permit to the zoning board of appeals So the building commissioner has who has he's the zoning enforcement officer in the town of amherst and he has discretion to To make certain decisions and in this case He's made the decision to have the special permit for the modification of the dimensional requirement for the front setback Go to the planning board because the planning board is um considering this site plan Thank you for the use Thank you. I had I had one other question which was Regarding the findings that we are going to be discussing Whether it would be a stronger finding to first find that the 6.6 does not apply and then uh Grant the special permit Versus finding that it does apply in granting the permit Good question chris any insight on that Well, I think that the building commissioner and I both feel that section 6.6 does not apply But we do encourage you to grant the special permit So that would be the direction that we would encourage you to go in but um, we may Differ from that and um, and therefore you could find that section section 6.6 does apply But you would still grant the special permit Well, assuming assuming that this is headed toward at least the zoning board of appeals if not other venues uh Would we be making a stronger case for those other venues if we Said both that it does not apply and granted the uh permit Or would we not be making a stronger of the two choices? I think that would be a strong choice for you to make. I'm not a lawyer. So I don't know Which choice would be the more um convincing in court, but um But I agree with the building commissioner that section 6.6 does not apply in this case and he has that discretion um To make and so my advice would be to Um find that section 6.6 does not apply and then still to grant the special permit And that would be part of a motion Stating that like we're in agreement with you and the building commissioner that it does not but we're still moving forward with granting the special Okay, the way the legal ad was written is um That you would you're being asked to grant the special permit For this front setback if required. So you can even put that in your Motion that if someone decides in the future that section 6.6 does apply then You are still granting this special permit. It's confirmation that you think that a 10 foot setback in this case or Actually, it's a 13.3 foot setback But um that the 22 that the 20 foot setback is not really necessary that The setback that's being proposed is appropriate So in the preamble where I read uh, if required, is that how it was stated in the ad? Is that what you said? Yeah, that's right. So you might want to include that in your motion Okay, thank you. Thank you for their comments. Okay. Thanks Doug. I'm going to move to janet and then uh, michael Hi, um, thank you I found myself in a somewhat uncomfortable position, but I when I feel confident in I do think that section 6.6 Oh applies and I would encourage the board to look at the language It says that table threes dimensional requirements quote Shall apply to all educational and religious religious uses Located in the zoning districts and so this is an educational use and that's how they presented it. There's no other I mean Not that entertainment embers media is educational and providing our community with um You know tremendous and important um services to our community um Also the the 6.6 goes on to say that all structures approved after january 1st 1994 By a permit granting authority for quote for educational or religious uses And so I would encourage the planning board not to think about You know the various lawsuits and sort of setting up. Um, what's the best way? I think we should need to do is look at our zoning bylaw. The language is very simple. It's very clear This is an educational use this applies and so then we move on to foot nut a And I think that foot night a applies and I think the conditions for a special permit are easily met by this application The supporting materials we've heard in previous hearings And the presentation by mr. Sparkle tonight 13 foot setback is appropriate. And so I think we can very easily write it in opinion that supports this special permit Um, I could go through every, you know possible thing, but Um, it is an appropriate use um setback. It fits the neighborhood You know so much of this project is really trying to preserve the historic character of the district that it's in And I think they've done an exceptional job with that it fits into the neighborhood I could I could go through all the different special, you know permit conditions But I do think We should not interpret the bylaw in a way for results. But in fact use the language is very simple. It's very clear um and you know, I do find myself disagreeing with um the town attorney and the Building commissioner who I have tremendous respect for and so but I do think you could read the you read the bylaw as a lay person And you can see this is a very broad term that would encompass this use um, that's it Thank you um michael Yes, uh, is there any reason why we couldn't simply avoid voting to Voting that 6.6 applies and that but simply grant the special permit Which it would be a simpler approach to it. We're not in a position necessarily To rule on whether 6.6 applies It's been decided by the building commissioner that it does and if we simply grant the grant the special permit Isn't that isn't that enough So, I guess that's out to the board. So our two options as I see it is if the board feels we could take a motion to just vote on whether Uh, either an agreement or not an agreement That it um is impacted by 6.6 or or we can Not address it all and and just move forward with the special permit Doug Yeah, I wanted to ask michael And I or at least to clarify what I thought he said which was that the building commissioner had Decided that 6.6 did apply I was under the impression. He decided that it did not apply Right I assume that's what michael meant That is indeed what I meant My my idea is simply to avoid that question and to move on to the question of granting the special permit Thank you Would um michael a comment a motion that says that we are voting to affirm The decision of the building commissioner and the director of planning And and that's part of our reasoning for granting the special permit. I don't think we need to do that I think we just need to to vote to approve sp 21 2021 01 Grant to grant that special permit period Okay, so we've got two different ideas on the table um If there's any other members who want to state that they feel one way or the other if we want to make a statement That we're in agreement um with the uh town staff um and then Vote on the special permit or would we just Not even address it. So I see janet's hand um, so I I think what michael's saying and I I endorse it is The applicant has applied for a special permit And we can grant it or deny it, you know on its merits and If we don't need to say section 6.60 applies why you know, can we just You know, they're asking for a special permit. We grant it We don't have to make You know, I you know, and I I can't vote to say yes It does it doesn't apply and I would actually be happy to write a memo on it I was hoping that kp law would write something a bit more detailed But I think I you know, they've applied for a permit special permit for whatever their reasons are You know, let's vote to grant it or deny it on the you know, the merits of their application and the by-law Parmints, I would support that idea Okay, thank you chris bestrip I see your hand. I just wanted to say I think I agree with michael that you could avoid the issue Entirely not make a finding on section 6.6 But do add the words um when you grant the special permit if you choose to grant it That you are um allowing this modification of the front setback if required And that kind of leaves it up to someone else to determine whether it actually applies or not But you've granted the special permit and that gives um confirmation That you agree that 10 feet or 13.3 feet is an appropriate setback for this particular location Thank you, uh michael. I see your hand. Uh, yeah, I move we close the public hearing and grant special permit 2021-01 if necessary um Okay, uh before we Move on to emotion I just want to confirm a few things. Uh, we should do final comments and check in with the public for any other additional comments um and Would we do chris the special permit and the spr at the same time should we do findings and conditions first or Would we move forward with the special permit first chris? I think you can do them separately. You need to take a separate vote So I would definitely make separate motions. I have a question about whether you need to go through the findings of 10.38 Traditionally what you have done um when you're granting a special permit under footnote a is that you really look at the requirements of footnote a and the requirement is that you Examine what is going on in the surrounding neighborhood and if What is being requested um is compatible with The similar dimensional requirement in the surrounding neighborhood in other words these these buildings across the street for the most part are closer to the front setback than Amherst media is being proposed to be then you know making that finding that Um complies with the language of footnote a I think is really all you need to do but if you want to Go through the 10.38 special permit findings We could do that as well. And I think that was the direction that miss mcgowan was moving in and Maybe that makes sense because maybe it's you know again belt and suspenders just sort of confirming that this is really What you believe and you um are voting You know with clear eyes that it that you feel that it meets all the 10.38 criteria as well as the criteria contained in footnote a so It's really up to you as far as Thanks So I think we can handle this separate if it's okay with the board we can move forward with just the special permit right now and sort of Take care of that and then we can go back and take care of the The site plan review so michael has proposed a motion Would you be able to repeat that again michael and we'll look for then a second? Sure, um I move we close the public hearing or the special permit. Yep and Grant special permit request of spp 2021 dash 01 if that Special permit turns out to be necessary if if required for a new building. Yep Second we worked that one and who second that maria Okay maria All right, so that's on the table At this point, can I just uh, pam are you there? Can we just go to attendees to make sure that there's no additional as at this time if there's any other final public comments to this I see One hand so i'm going to address that um, I see town counselor, uh, dorothy pam has raised her hand I'm going to click a lot of talk Um, oh, I just did christine. Okay. Is she good? Don't mute her. Yeah. No, dorothy can can Can you hear us? Can you say hello? I don't see the mic. Isn't that weird? Can you hear me now? Yes, we can hear you Well, we're with we're without power for that. We have no internet. So i'm on the phone Oh, which is interesting. Okay. I just wanted to make a little remark At this point, um, I don't have any argument with the whole question of the permit for educational institution I I follow the arguments and I have no problem with that But I was a little bit unhappy with bucky sparkles statement that The buildings the setback was consistent with those that surrounded it looking only to the east and across the street And ignoring the amherst woman woman's club and the boys and girls club, which of course have huge setbacks So I I know the historical, um group worked as hard as they could to try to keep the new building as much out of the view range of Those buildings, but I just think that in terms of the record It should be acknowledged that it's right next to incredible setbacks as part of the historical district And you know, the embers woman's club has is is not fighting this many times things happen and people don't fight for lots and lots of reasons but um Just understand that that there is a change being made in a very beautiful block And um, I know people are trying to do it in ways that are least injurious, but it is a serious matter So that's that's all I have to say Okay, thank you. All right. So coming back to the board Um, so we're open for comments and discussions from us. I see uh, jenna regalons hand I'm not seeing any other hands at this time Um, so we're discussing the motion that's on the table right now janet Um, I've never really understood until tonight that expression built since suspenders. Um, I would Think that when we discuss we look at this we might want to go beyond the usual, um Practice of just looking at a few dimensional, you know The special permit requirements about the neighborhood and dimensional requirements And fill in, you know, look at the other special permit requirements. Um, which are very most of them are very similar to the requirements of site plan review and I think that would be a very That would be The testifying or challenges and so I I would encourage to do that extra piece Looking at what we've seen in the record and how the in the different criteria what we've seen that would support I know it sounds a little offy, but I just won the belt suspenders the ring code and I know what else people wear, you know But I think that um, maybe that's a prudent course of action You know, I'm not sure I just that's my Okay, thank you So chris I don't have that in front of me I don't know if we can pull it up on the shared screen before mr. Sparkle pulls this down chris Do we have that that we can pull up to read? I didn't give it to you Pam can pull up 99 of the zoni bylaw I haven't So I can read it and we can go through each one as I read them If that would be suitable and maybe if pam can find age 99 section 10.38 of the zoni bylaw Can you do that pam? So the other I do have something what you included in the email today. I did I did I did that let's see if that's what you're referring to I think that was 11.24. Yeah, that's a different one, but all right Why don't I just read them? Yeah, why don't you read it chris? Because that's what we normally do before zoom So 10.380 Um the proposal is suitably located in the neighborhood in which it is proposed And or the total town and is deemed appropriate Um by the special permit granting authority Yes Yes, anybody disagree with that if you disagree raise your hand and I will be watching for those Um So chris you can keep going I'll let you know if I see a raised hand 10.381 the proposal is compatible with existing uses and other uses permitted by right in the same You can say yes You could also argue that um the dimensional Modification doesn't really have anything to do with uses, but um If you really want to do belt and suspenders you can just say yes I think I'm seeing no hands in protest chris. So I think everyone's in agreement The proposal does not constitute would not constitute a nuisance Due to air and water pollution flood noise odor Dust vibration lights or visually offensive structures or site features I'm seeing no hands The proposal would not be a substantial Or hazard Vehicles or pedestrians Seeing no hands Yes, okay 10.384 adequate and appropriate facilities will be provided Operation of the proposed use Agreement I'm seeing no hands 10.385 The proposal reasonably protects the adjoining premises against detrimental or offensive uses on the site Including air and water pollution Flood noise odor dust vibration lights or visor visually offensive structures or site features Um, I do see michael burr whistle I I think it could be argued and uh This is a complicated for me, uh, we're talking about the special permit which is essentially uh, we're not talking about the Of site plan review here. We're talking about the special permit. Correct. Correct. I think it could be argued that the special permit of the The the offensive structure the visually offensive structure Is certainly there is no visually offensive structure Relative that the special permit is not concerned with that But I think you could argue that the entire site plan Uh is visually offensive to the neighborhood Um, it's not a question of the setback here. It's a question of the entire project So there's that's an issue and I don't I don't know how to resolve that I would be happy to have somebody tell me how to resolve that I wanted, uh, I wanted to bring this up In connection with uh 10.380, uh, but I couldn't get to unmute myself quickly enough and raise my hand quickly enough I've got a new system of my my computer, um but The suitably located in the neighborhood in which it is proposed um, I would submit that, um it is certainly the, um The setback question the proposed the projecting, um element from the building that is in question Is appropriate, uh to the neighborhood But I would still question whether or not the entire structure Is appropriate to the neighborhood. I understand that the historical commission the historic district commission has approved the the proposal, um and uh, I'm I am, um Of I'm persuaded by that largely Um, but if we're making a finding specific to these quest to these Uh, to the language in 10.30 38 sorry Then, uh, I'm not so sure about the question of, uh suitably located and or visual and visually offensive in, uh, 10.10.380 and 10.385 chris pester Well, that's why I usually try to limit, um When we're making findings about dimensional modifications, I try to limit the finding to the specific dimensional modification rather than going through 10.38 Because 10.38 really relates more to the use Which is normally, you know, if this is a zba special permit for the use you would go through all of these Uh items here. So I I think there's some Uh reason not to go through 10.38, but um miss mcgallon thinks that it's a good idea and it's more strengthening of your Decision so it's possible that you could take a vote on each one of these if you wanted to and if mr Burt whistle wishes to disagree with 10.380 and 10.385 Maybe that's That's what we should do here. We should say well, we have one. We have a kind of a what is it five to one vote on 3.8. Oh, whether it is mad or not and a five to one vote on 10.385 I don't know. I mean, that's that's one way to do it We vote to approve or not approve the special permit. I do agree with you chris where we're sort of diving wider on the special permit than what we were actually What's been requested for a special permit? Um, I'll I see janet's hand so Very similar in when we get to the site plan review There's a very very similar language in a requirement about visually offensive structures and harmony, you know, like fitting in with You know with abutting properties. So I think that um As much as you might want to escape the issue is just going to show up again in the site plan review So I think that maybe having a vote on that and having it, you know Five one or whatever, but I understand michael's, you know qualm basic qualm but I think that You know the special permit in site plan review criteria very similar and they're very overlapping not quite though I mean special permit permit is a little more rigorous But we're going to have the same issue or michael will have the same question An issue when we get to site plan review and start reading through those criteria So I think we just have to face it and I just You know, I know this seems like a tedious exercise Three part of the new special permit criteria, sorry And you know, we're gonna we're not going to have skipped any point We'll be wearing our belt or suspenders or rain boots, you know, whatever and so it takes a few minutes here And we might have some disagreements, but I think we should go forward Okay, well, what is that what may I speak? Yes What is the conclusion about 10.385? Do um, is there a general consensus I think michael has spoken against it. Do we I don't think we need to take a vote on each issue. I'm not I'm not I'm simply raising a question. I don't necessarily Want to vote against it. Uh, in fact, I I don't want to vote against it in terms of the special permit request Because I think the special permit requests is is Modificate because a request to modify What is an existing design in place which we theoretically will be approving in site plan review um, and I I think there's separate issues and I am not concerned with The setback issue as according with the whole building. I'm concerned with the whole building So I don't really think we need to go into the issue of the set the site back the setback With uh with with great detail. I think we should just simply grant the setback modification, uh, and if in fact I if And and let and let the issue of whether the building belongs on that site Go to site plan review and not worry about it now Okay. Well, your motion is on the floor. Um, and miss mcgowan wants to go through each one of these items I am going to switch to I see dug's hand up and then jack Well, I was just going to say that when I look at 10.38 The words suitably located mean to me We're not putting a bar in a residential neighborhood So putting this educational use into the neighborhood that we are talking about here seems perfectly appropriate Without any further discussion. Thank you Thanks jack Yeah, I was I just also the the Historical commission's decision on this weighs heavily in terms of it fitting or not. So For me, it's a you know, kind of a moot issue I'd like to vote You know The special permit findings in it in their entirety Okay, um, chris, is there any more to read on those since I can't see them Yes One more I can read them quickly. Um So I'm going to say about 10.385 general consensus, but Some disagreement um 10.386 is The proposal ensures that it is in conformance with the parking and sign regulations of this bylaw so what you would have to say there is that This proposal has asked for modifications of the parking requirements and that when you get to the point of Your site plan review you will determine whether you're going to grant that parking modification or not Right Um, I'm going to put down dug and jack's hands Um, and if anyone has an issue then re raise your hand up Keep going chris 10.387 The proposal provides convenient and safe vehicular and pedestrian movement within the site and in relation to adjacent streets property or improvements With the special permit granting authority deems the proposal likely to have a significant adverse impact on traffic Patterns it shall be permitted to require a traffic impact report And the proposal shall comply with section 11.2437 of this bylaw. So they've asked for A waiver of the requirement for a traffic impact statement. So that's something that you would grant under your site plan review 10.388 Is the proposal ensures adequate space for the off-street loading and unloading of vehicles Goods products materials and equipment incidental to the normal operation of the establishment or Agreement not seeing any hands 10.389 The proposal provides adequate methods of disposal and or storage Pursuance refuse recyclables and other wastes resulting from the use is permitted or permissible on the site and methods of drainage for surface water I see no hands agreement Okay, um 10.39 zero is not applicable because it talks about flood hazards and refers to the flood Conservancy district flood prone conservancy district and this is not in that district. So I think we would say it's not applicable here 10.391 the proposal protects to the extent feasible unique or important natural historic or scenic features And here you could refer to the local historic district commission Certificate of appropriateness Agreement Chris. I see no hands Um 10.392 Let me see what page I'm on here team It's 10 point the proposal provides adequate landscaping including the screening of adjacent residential uses provision of street trees landscape islands and the parking lot and a landscape buffer along the street frontage When a non-residential use of joints a residential district an uninterrupted vegetative buffer shall to the extent feasible Be established and maintained between buildings associated with uses under this section and the nearest residential property boundaries Um, I would say that they're instead of providing a an uninterrupted vegetated buffer. They're providing a stone wall In the direction of uh in the northerly direction and they're providing vegetation in the westerly direction I Agree. I see no hand 10.393 The proposal provides protection of adjacent properties by minimizing the intrusion of lighting Including parking lot and exterior lighting for use of cutoff luminaires light shields lowered height of light panels screening or similar solutions All exterior lighting shall be downcast and shall be directed or shielded To eliminate light trespass onto an any street or abutting property And to eliminate direct or reflected glare Perceptible to persons on any street or abutting property and sufficient to reduce the viewer's ability to see All site lighting including architectural sign and parking lot lighting Shall be kept extinguished outside of those business hours Established under an approved site management plan except for lighting determined to be necessary for site security and the safety of employees and visitors agreement, I see no hands 10.394 the proposal avoids to the extent feasible impact on steep slopes flood plains scenic views grade changes and wetlands There really aren't any steep slopes or flood plains here and where substantial grade changes or wetlands And in terms of scenic views, um, again, you could refer to the certificate of appropriateness that the local historic district Granted and make a comment about the effort that has been made to keep the building out of the Viewshed of the adjacent property owned by harm's way agreement see no hands um The last or excuse me not the last one the 10.395 the proposal does not create disharmony with respect to the Drain and to the use scale and architecture of existing buildings in the vicinity Which have functional or visual relationship there, too within the BN zone and others which are also mentioned any risk and any residential zoning district Where the project in question occurs within the boundaries of a national registered district which this does Um, the board uh, the permanent granting authority shall if it deems the proposal likely to have a significant impact on its surroundings the permitted to use the design principles and standards set forth in the design review board section of the zoning by-law to evaluate the design of the proposed architecture and landscape alterations and again, I think that this has been reviewed by the local historic district commission with great detail with regard to the architectural features, so I think that um There's really no necessity to uh invoke the design principles and standards of the design review board Agreement I see no hands 10.396 The proposal provides screening for storage areas loading docks dumpsters rooftop equipment utility buildings and similar features There are no dumpsters or rooftop equipment no loading docks there is a There is an utility area up back and there is screening around the utility area Both by the wall the stone wall and by the um shrubbery that's provided to the west Agreement I see no hands 10.397 The proposal provides adequate recreational facilities open space and amenities for the proposed use. I think this is an NA not um not uh applicable The proposal of the master plan Yes I I see one hand Janet McGowan Janet you're on mute Janet My hair So you have a touch action you keep breaking up. Oh, I'm sorry. I'm kind of on I'm kind of in the national Um, I was in this recreational area, you know We're having a hard time understanding you you're all gone Get me Um, I'll try turning off a couple of mics and see if that makes a difference. Hold on chris. I'm just going to mute you for a minute Um, everyone is muted except for Pam and I do you want to try again janet Yeah, I was just saying there is you know, there's a whole empty lot for recreational space if it comes to that So I think we talked about that during the hearing so Okay, we could hear half of that your your wi-fi must be um A little rough or wherever you are Okay, dug marshal. I see his well first dug hold up. I'm gonna call on chris. I see her hand up and then dug your next Oh chris. Yeah, I heard what janet said. She said there isn't there's no need to say that The recreational uh requirement is not applicable because there is a recreational area in the empty lot next to the building So we can say that instead of not applicable Is that satisfactory? I think she's nodding dug Yeah, I was gonna Have a slightly different argument to say I didn't think that it was not applicable Which is to say that I that I find it is adequate for the proposed use Which says needs essentially no recreational space Chris, which do you think is best? Oh either one But we could say it's adequate for the proposed use Which needs no recreational space however a lot available mix Sorry, you didn't hear any of that Hard half of it. Sorry Can you say that again? So which one do you lean towards? I'd say combine them Combine them Proposed use which needs no recreational space. However, if recreational space is needed There's an empty lot right next door to the west of the building. How about that? That sounds wonderful Um, I see no other hands Okay, we got through that I think we're fully dressed and have raincoats and and Hard hats on So at this time, are there any other? I think you should go through footnote a Oh, where's oh What page is that on you know page 81 it says The requirement meaning the dimensional requirement may be modified under a special permit Oh in applying the criteria Instriction typically 395 the special permit granting authority shall consider the proposed modified dimensional requirement In the context of the pattern of the same dimensions established by existing buildings and landscape features in the surrounding neighborhood So we can make a statement That you have found that the testimony presented by mr. Sparkle with regard to the setbacks On the other side of the street Meets the meets this requirement Yes, is that reasonable? I think that's reasonable. I'm not seeing any hands Okay Anything else that we I think that's it Okay, so at this time um If there's any other comments or questions either from the applicant or um from the board members. I'm watching for hands I would have a very minor comment if I'm committed And that's that's to address Dorothy Pam's indication about The setbacks. I don't think it's a big deal but if You were back at my screen the you know, I was really talking about the the commercial Buildings in the bn zoning district and the amherst women's club and the Henry Hills house Are not that type of building whatsoever and I don't believe are in the bn district if i'm correct Um, so I was really trying to compare apples and apples the things that were closest not only in proximity But in in use and functionality There aren't a lot of pieces of property in downtown Amherst that are anything like the Amherst women's women's center or a club Uh, so I'm glad we don't have to live up to the standards of that magnificent property Okay, thank you. I'm not seeing any other hands at this time. Um So I'm assuming that we are ready to vote on the special permit Chris, is there anything else we need to do or can we take a vote? Can take a vote, okay, so I will do a roll call Do we need does anyone need to hear the motion again? Are we good? And okay, so I'll do a roll call. This is for Um, actually, I'll say it's for SPP 2021-01 Amherst community television dba Amherst media corner of Bray Street and Main Street to approve their special permit request So, uh, michael burt whistle. Yes Maria chow Jack jumpsick approve Doug marshal approve Janet McGowan approve And myself christine gray mullin approve. So that's six zero zero And that closes out the permit So now we're going to go back to our site plan review And I'll open it up to the board. Um Are there any questions or concerns, uh, that they want to ask about the site plan review We also can comment on we were sent I'm digging here through our massive paper, uh findings and conditions Hopefully people gave a look to I'm pulling out one right now Okay conditions and findings Okay, so janet Janet you are muted so we cannot hear you. Can you hear me? I'm sorry um I have a question Which is can we vote on the site plan review and then add findings later because I have a bunch of findings I'd like to add to both If the board votes to approve and again strengthen decision and refer to the testimony and evidence that we've seen I don't want to go through it now because I think it'd be kind of a tedious thing So I wondered if we could vote if the vote is to approve I could send christine breaster my You know supplement to her findings and we could look at it our next thing is or is there a desire to wrap it all up tonight Are you are you saying you want us to approve the site plan review? And then you would send more findings to be added to it Or um, I guess I'm just I guess I can just I'm just trying to um I'm asking how that's if that could be done and if it if it seems we have to vote on those No, I just I just christine Okay, then I just add findings now. Okay I think that's how it works So that would be great. Um, so you have findings you want to add to the already draft findings list And you have possible conditions So normally Chris can come with me I would read through the draft findings like what we're doing and then if there's things to add chris I see your hand up. Feel free to talk if you you could probably say that's better than me So what I would suggest is that christine gray mullen read the draft finding and then janet add whatever she wants to add and then The there'd be discussion about whether others feel the same way For each of these things and then in the end janet can send me her written Document and I can incorporate it into the findings, but you should make your findings Before you take your vote because you're going to vote on the findings and the conditions and the waivers and to approve the cyclone review So it should all So we wouldn't want people to think that board members are you know slip in there stuff in later We want to do it as a board and make it look like it's there's unity We had slipped it a little earlier. I'm just on vacation this week. So I didn't get to that. Okay Okay, uh jack Vice chair. I'm going to ask a favor of you Wake up. You're in your sunflower field there If you could do what I was doing for chris, can you watch the hands? And let me know if a hand goes up while i'm reading because chris is writing Okay I can have a hamster and other things too, but you know I was I was not sleeping I was I did not use your sleeping I was slouching I was slouching in your field of flowers So i'm gonna read you know just so y'all know you're probably see it's a page and a half It's about um what chris read so if you want to add or you want um Something in that um section. Please raise your hand and jack either or say approve jack. No hands or call on their hand Okay All right, the board found under section 11.24 of the zoning bylaw site Planned review as follows 11.24 00 the project is in conformance with all the appropriate Provisions of the zoning bylaw the applicant is applying for a special permit to modify the front setback requirement under footnote A of table three to overcome the apparent doubling of the setback requirement In section 6.60 of the zoning bylaw for educational and religious uses The applicant is also applying for a modification of the parking requirements under section 7.9 of the zoning bylaw 11.2401 town amenities and abutting properties will be protected through minimizing detrimental or offensive actions The proposed use of the property is unlikely to create detrimental or offensive actions 11.2402 abutting properties will be protected from detrimental site characteristics Resulting from the proposed use lights will be downcast or shielded 11.2403 Na provision of recreational facilities is not relevant to this use Uh, just saying do we want to make it the same as we had with the special permit? Yes I'll do that. So 11.2403 reference special permit finding Yes, thank you 11.2401 0 unique or important natural historic or scenic features will be protected The local historic district commission held seven public meeting sessions hearing sessions with the applicant and worked with the applicant to resolve design issues Eventually agreeing to a building that fits well in its surroundings The local historic district commission issued a certificate of appropriateness for the building in january And the new building will not will not block views of the historic The women's club or the henry f hills house since the building is confined to the eastern side of the site And the grassy area to the west is maintained as open space 11.211 I'm sorry 0.2411 The project provides adequate methods of a refuse disposal as described in the We have a hand. Yeah, Michael Thank you, jack Yeah, uh back to the previous one I'm kind of lost where are we? We're in 11.2410 unique and important natural historic or scenic features Uh a third line Resolved design issues eventually agreeing to a building that fits in I would suggest we say that eventually agreeing That the building fits in well with its surroundings because there's a little difference Um, they agreed that the building fits in well When you say agreeing to a building that fits in well What you're saying is that you're making the decision that the building fits in well the historic Commission made that decision we can agree with it or not. I tend not to but I think it's it's more appropriate of what they did Just to use to use that that language Uh, eventually agreeing that a the building fits in well Do you see that chris? Yeah agreeing to that the building Eventually agreeing that the building fits in well It's in well that proposed building if you if you did did you get that chris? I'm not seeing any hands of disagreement. So um, all right Is that it michael? Yes. Thank you. Okay, so i'm gonna go to 11.2412 Jack if you're back on the project will be connected to town sewer and water and the town engineer has reviewed and has not expressed Concerns about the town services or their ability to serve the proposed use 11.2413 the proposed drainage system within an adjacent to the site will be adequate to handle the storm water The town engineer has reviewed and has not expressed concerns about the proposed storm water management system 11.2414 Provision of the adequate landscaping has been addressed and the project includes new plantings on site 11.2415 the soil erosion Condition control methods are considered adequate to control soil erosion built during and after construction 11.2416 adjacent properties will be protected by minimizing the intrusion of various nuisances A construction logistics plan is required to be submitted prior to the issuance of building permit 11.2417 Adjacent properties will be protected from the intrusion of lighting because a condition of the permit requires that exterior lighting Downcast or shielded and or shielded and not shine onto adjacent properties 11.2418 and a the property is not located in a flood prone conservation Conservancy district 11.2419 and a there is no wetlands on or within a hundred feet of the property 11.2420 the planning board did not choose to refer to the design principles or standard set forth in sections 3.3040 and 3.2041 of the zoning bylaw because of the local historic district permission Has done a thorough review of the building design in its location on the site and has issued a certificate of appropriateness 11.2421 the development is reasonably considered with respect to setbacks placement of parking landscaping and entrances and exits With surrounding buildings and development The applicant is applying for a special permit to modify the front setback requirement under footnote a of table 3 to overcome the apparent doubling of the setback requirement In section 6.60 of the zoning bylaw for educational and religious uses 11.2422 building sites shall avoid to the extent feasible the impact on sleep steep slopes flood plain scenic views and gray changes and wetlands There is no steep slopes or flood plains on this on the site The applicant has located the proposed building To be mostly outside of the view to or from the women's club and the henry hill henry f. Hills house There is no serious grade change proposed and there's no wetlands on or near the property 11.2423 na there is only one building proposed for the site 11.2424 screening has been provided as appropriate via a stone wall At the north side of the property and via a slope and set of plantings along the west edge of the parking lot 11.2430 the site has been designed to provide for the convenience and be Safety of vehicular pedestrian movement both within the site and in relation to the adjoining ways and properties The parking lot although tight has been carefully designed to allow backup and turning movements and pedestrian circulation 11.2431 the location of the curb cut has been designed to minimize turning movements and hazardous exits and entrances And the applicant has submitted a plan showing Turning movements within the parking lot The town engineer has reviewed the location of the curb cut in relation To the intersection of main street and grey street and has found the location to be satisfactory 11.2432 the location and design of the parking spaces bicycle racks drive aisles loading areas and sidewalks have been Have been provided in a safe and convenient manner 11.2433 na provision for the access to adjoining properties is not an issue 11.2434 the proposed driveway is located almost opposite one of the driveways from 446 main street 11.2435 na joint access driveways between the adjoining properties is not an issue since the adjacent property has an existing driveway on the other northern side of the property 11.2436 the requirement for Um Submiddle of a traffic impact statement has been waived There is very little traffic expected to enter or leave the site and traffic at the site does not Overlap in terms of timing with traffic to and from the nearby school 11.2437 na no traffic import No traffic impact report will be required the end All right, so that's findings I'm not seeing any hands for additional findings. I can move straight on to the conditions. Oh, I just saw two hands jack Oh, well first jack Chris best right and then jack. Sorry. Oh, it's trumps. Yeah I would who's going first chris is going to go first just to make whatever she and then you thanks Yes, chris. Janet has some additional findings that she would like to Um describe to you before you vote on these findings Okay, so I'll go to jack and then I'll go to janet. Thank you Jack I was going to say for 11.2436 that Mentioned the bus stop somewhere in there Uh, you know public transportation is proximal very proximal Uh to the site In addition Yeah Anything else jack? No, okay. So I'll move to janet janet Um, just so I can find space on pick how many findings you're proposing Janet you're um muted so we can't hear you Okay, I'm going to skip the additional findings, but I do have a question about whether um About the waiver the parking requirement Do we have to vote on that separately or does it have to be mentioned in the findings that we the board has agreed to Wave parking requirement based on the information presented to it about very little need for parking I said that's under the go ahead chris Um, when you make the motion about the site plan review you will include The findings the conditions and the waivers and if you want to know exactly what the waivers are I can tell you they are in the In the document that has been disappeared from my desk here. Um, the development application report that was part of your packet for July 15th Had the waivers Yes, I think I have that We have the application report that was in the packet for July 15th. So that was waivers Great Then you can um You can see what waivers were requested. This is the special permit. Yeah, I just have to get there. Hold on I don't have that with in my here. So I'd love to see that again. Thank you Here we are Oh here they are Waivers Public impact statement number of parking spaces and the proximity of parking driveways to the building. Okay Those were the three waivers. Yeah Thanks, uh, Pam, could you pop up that you probably have at the possible conditions? This might be easy for people to see it while I Which I have to warn everyone it's even longer than my last bit Yeah Okay, so let me jack. Are you back on? Can you watch hands? Uh jack your hand is actually up. Do you have something to say? Yes, I'm here. So I'm gonna um read if you can kind of watch hands again and um, And chris is gonna scribble away and check so okay So this is possible conditions for a site plan review for Amherst media spr 2020-11 All right under general number one Development shall be built substantially in accordance with the plan submitted to the planning board and approved on And chris, we just leave these blank for now because we don't know That's right now Number two development shall be managed substantially in accordance with the management plan submitted to the planning board and approved on to be determined Three upon a change of ownership or if the property is no Longer managed by Amherst media the new owner and or manager shall submit a new management plan to the planning board At the public meeting for its review and approval The purpose of the meeting shall be for the board to determine whether conditions of a permit are being Um complied with and whether any modifications to the site plan review approval or management plan is required Uh Sorry, it's our chris room me off chris. Are you trying to say something? I wanted to say something about um, the massingill letter which mentions this condition um, I think he Misunderstood the condition because this condition applies if somebody's coming in and um doing essentially what Media is doing now, but it's a different company Um, if there's a change in use the building commissioner would look at that change in use and determine whether It is um similar enough to Amherst media's use That someone could just bring in a new management plan to the planning board or if it's substantially different from Amherst media's use In which case they would be required to file a new site plan review or special permit application So this is really just for Say Amherst media changed its name or say a new company took over from Amherst media to do essentially what Amherst media is doing They would come back to the planning board with a change in a management plan Otherwise, it would be a whole new ball of wax and it would go through the building commissioner And he would determine that it needs either a site plan review or a special permit for a new use Thank you for um identifying that and clarifying. Thank you chris Number four all exterior lighting shall be dark sky compliant exterior lighting shall be downcast shielded Or shall not shine onto adjacent properties or streets Five changes to the project and are substantial changes to any approved site plans or to the exterior of the building Shall be submitted to the planning board for its review and approval prior to the work taking place The purpose of the submittal shall be For the planning board to approve the change and or determine whether the changes are de minimis or significant enough to Require modification of the special permit or the site plan review approval Six landscaping shall be installed in accordance with the landscaping plan prior to the issuance of a certificate of occupants See and once installed shall be continually maintained All disturbed areas shall be loomed and seated. Otherwise unless otherwise specified Uh construction section number seven prior to the Of course, I just want to say um Didn't we in the past decide like number nine we can just say a construction logistics plan and not read Like i through j can I do that? You don't have to read them, but I think the building commissioner would Encourage you to keep them in here Oh keep them in but do I have to can I just say read the first like a construction logistics plan to be provided at the pre-construction meeting And cover shall cover the uh following items a J Yes, and I okay, and I see dug marshal your hand. Um, okay. I don't see you but uh Yeah, I'm here There you are. Hello. Yeah, I uh number six Uh in in my experience, it's not uncommon for the landscaping to be To to wait to install the landscaping Until you get to either a the right time of year for planting Shrubs and that kind of thing which could be after the certificate certificate of occupancy Or at least the temporary certificate of occupancy has been issued so You know, I think I don't know what the practice here is in this town, but I think it might be Uh a benefit to the owner to have A requirement that the landscaping be installed within six months of the certificate of occupancy or something like that I agree chris is this ever come up before So what usually happens is that someone applies for a temporary certificate of occupancy And gets into the building and then finishes up the last few things That need to be finished and the building commissioner is generous in his acceptance of the fact that landscaping is Often not installed at the time that the building is finished and a temporary certificate of occupancy is Um is issued so This wording seems to be working In our world But if you would like to modify it you you can do that But this it's worked in the past and it seems like the building commissioner can can work with this language That's fine. Let's leave it if that's like I said, I don't know the practice in town Sure, and now that chris has said it that is I guess how it's worked in the past and and you and there haven't been complaints chris Oh, there are always complaints. Yep But everything gets worked out Okay, thank you So number under construction number seven prior to the issuance of any building permit a pre-construction meeting Shall be scheduled with the applicant the applicants contractor the town engineer the building commissioner the superintendent public works Planning staff and the fire chief and any other staff personnel that may have a role in the construction of the project Eight a written construction fire management plan shall be submitted to the fire chief and building commissioner prior to the issuance of a building permit Nine a construction logistics plan shall be provided at the pre-construction meeting and shall cover all the following items a pro j Number 10 a construction logistics plan shall be subject to the following conditions as listed a through d Um, we yeah, there is what I just noticed this could and pamphlet the page Come again. Oh sorry Oh, and there is this condition may need to be amended There's some question on b before I just Chris is that something we need to look we need to address right now on number 10 Whoa There we go All right, ask mr. Sparkle what his plans are for parking the contractors I believe he said to me recently or it was written In an email that parking for contractors would be accommodated on the site and so this condition can apply So I don't think it needs to be amended, but we might want to confirm that with mr. Sparkle Um, mr. Sparkle Yes, um, and I'm actually taking this on the word of the expected site contractor They do anticipate keeping all construction equipment and materials on the site during the project And they'll just be doing a little bit of dosy dough as the project continues from one area to the other in intensity Dosy dough Okay All right, it's great Um, so I'll move on up dog. I see your hand popped up. Yep Yeah, mr. Sparkle just said equipment and materials would be on the site. He did not say all the contractor parking Oh, you know, I guess I think of vehicles as equipment, but Um, yes, so the park parking also on site. I think we can get everybody on there. Yes So nobody parking on gray street. That's the most important thing. Yes I mean, perhaps the contractor might fire their places other properties off street to stage materials They sometimes do that at their own convenience, but we're not going to be occupying the public right away for this construction process Thanks for the clarification Doug excellent 11 as part of the building permit application the applicant shall provide the building commissioner the name address and business telephone number of the project manager Or onsite supervisor who shall be responsible for all activities on the project site 12 There shall be no exterior construction activity including fueling of vehicles on the project site before 7 a.m Or after 7 p.m. Monday through saturday. There shall be no construction on the project site on the following legal holidays New year's day memorial day 4th of july or july 4th Labor day thanksgiving and christmas the applicant agrees that the hours of operation shall be enforceable by the amorce police department and or inspection services 13 the project site shall be fenced during construction 14 appropriate measure shall Shall be taken to control dust dirt debris and Construction materials on the site water for dust control shall be tracked in from off site unless otherwise approved by the department of public works 15 all catch basin shall be protected from soil and debris Contamination during construction and shall be cleaned at the end of construction 16 no stumps demolition material or construction Debris shall be buried or disposed of at the project site 17 town engineer and the building commissioner shall inspect the construction of the entry driveway and all onsite paved areas for conformance to town standards 18 the applicant shall Provide as built plans that show building location grades accessways parking areas sidewalks and walkways curbing stormwater management facilities lighting and utilities to the building commissioner town engineer and to be placed With the site plan review decision in the planning department 19 The final certificate of occupancy shall not be issued until a Final top coat of paving for all driveways and access areas sidewalks and berms have been completed b Landscaping as shown on the plan of record has been installed See as built plans Have been submitted to the building commissioner and the town engineer By all the design professionals from site and building construction and have been approved by the building commissioner and town engineer 20 a temporary certificate of occupancy may be granted by the building commissioner. Any incomplete work may require a bond Okay, I see michael burt will size his hand up Michael what number here we go. Can you hear me now? We can hear you Number number 20 Any complete work will require a bond As opposed to may require a bond we've been going back and forth about bonding a bit lately So maybe we ought to be more specific about that will require a bond Uh, we don't always require. I mean are you talking about the Three-party agreement kind of thing for subdivisions We've been talking about various kinds of bond with with the subdivision with the exchange of properties lot one lot eight lot four for lot seven Uh, this is the third time. Well, there's three times bonding has come up in recent months Right, maybe chris can talk about this more, but I think that's for subdivisions and this is Well, this is I'm just saying should it Chris can you give any examples where a bond would be required? Well, I think if someone were We're not able to complete say the planting In time for what they need as a final certificate of occupancy Then they could be required by the building commissioner to Let the bond but that would be up to the building commissioner And he has control over that process because he Can refuse to grant the final certificate of occupancy if people don't comply So they it's sort of a negotiation at the end of a project if for some reason the winter has been really bad And they haven't been able to get into the site, but they really need a final certificate of occupancy but they haven't completed all the planting or the seeding or the seeding isn't working out well or something like that then the building commissioner can say well, I will issue a certificate of occupancy a final one, but You need to give me a bond. So it's it's kind of giving the building commissioner The ability to do that he can do it anyway, but this is putting the Developer on notice that the building commissioner may do this So it is a little different from the subdivision because the subdivision really the building commissioner doesn't have much to do with that It's really all the the town engineer Different parties and Chris, do you know if this has happened many times? in the last it's happened it happened recently because of when he's pleasant street I remember this Stated that they would Work with the town to design and install signage for the west cemetery To direct people back to the west cemetery From north pleasant street and they never really followed through on that So the building commissioner got them to put a bond I think $25,000 bond up Because they wanted a final certificate of occupancy for the building but they hadn't complied with that requirement So he's got a $25,000 bond to make that happen even though they didn't make it happen themselves So that's the kind of thing that that would be useful Is that explain it Is that does so is does the existing wording sound okay, michael? I was going to suggest why don't we were why don't we insert the phrase at the building commissioner's discretion After bond It makes sense. Yeah And I think that's the end So, um, are there any other questions Or any other conditions that anyone wants to add any other last questions for the applicant I'm not seeing any hands. Um, chris. Do you have any last statements or at this point? Could we uh, take a motion? Doug marshal had his hand raised I'm sorry it up. I see it back up Yeah, I was just going to remind everybody we need to make sure those three waivers are included in the motion Yeah, we will in the motion, um close the public hearing you want to include the conditions the findings and the waivers Anyone feel motivated? I do And then I see maria Well, I mean, I guess I will move that we closed the public hearing and What was it include the waivers the findings and the conditions? Yeah, the findings conditions and the waivers And approve the site plan review Yes We've approved the site plan review Excellent and a second from maria Okay, so that's on the table. Um Any other questions from the board members? I see jack's hand Yeah, I just forget the three waivers. Can we say what those are again? I'm just there's the um parking waiver, there's the um traffic impact statement and the proximity to the uh Someone help me the parking proximity of parking driveways to the building. Yes. That's it. Thanks, ma'am. You're welcome Um, I'm seeing no other hands I see michael's hand Did we have a second on the motion? Yes, maria and michael your hands up, but you are muted Okay, thank you um I want to say that I intend to vote yes on this site plan approval Even though I think this is the wrong building in the wrong place uh, unfortunately, uh We are bound by a bad decision that town meeting made some years ago to rezone this piece of property And that gives the owner of the property Essentially the right to build the building that they're proposing Uh, I think the historic district commission has done a wonderful job trying to make this building reasonable for the site and in fact Since the building has since the owners have the right to build the building Uh, they've done about the best they can do um I just need to register the fact that I believe this building should never have been built there that the land should never have been rezone and that this this building destroys the remaining Ground space that fronts the hills house and the women's club And it's a it's it's for me. It's a great shame that the building is being built there Nonetheless, I'm afraid the owner have has the right to do it. So I will vote yes Any other comments, uh chris? Um, I just wanted to note that prior to this land being um rezone I believe that the land had been divided into Two frontage lots and at that time it was in the rg zoning district. So if This rezoning hadn't occurred Two Individual single-family homes could have been built on Each of those lots or excuse me one single-family home could have been built on each of those lots In the rg district. So the result probably would have been Well, that was prior to The local historic district commission having been formed. So I don't know what would have happened then but in any event I just wanted to say that um, that would uh, that would have been a possibility back then before this property was rezoned that two single-family homes could have been built here and The planning board wouldn't have had any control and the zoning board wouldn't have had any control And so it would have actually marred the view of the two buildings Significantly just wanted to remind everyone of that. Thank you chris. That was important history to hear I'm seeing no other hands at this time. So I think we're ready to do a roll call vote You have something to say speak now see nothing Um, and I'm sorry. I have to sneeze All right bought it off. Okay. Um, michael burt whistle. Yes. Okay. And just this is for the site plan review Yes, michael burt whistle said yes mariah chow prove jack gem sick prove Doug marshall approve janet mcgowan I barely hear janet Okay, thank you and christine graham mullen approve. So that's uh six zero zero Mr. Sparkle are you still there? I want to thank you and um amherst media For all your hard work and pleasure working with the town. Thank you very much and chris. Thank you for the history as well great good luck And uh, we're we are very indebted Um Is a town to amherst media they do a lot for the town. So um, please for them that they can Start to move forward with this because I do think there'll be a lot of benefits for the town as a whole And with that I think we can um move on to uh our next item Thank you. We're great. Thank you and um We're gonna go to item four, which is old business Uh and number. Oh, yeah, okay number one zoning review priorities list Zoning amendments and pam if I can request for you to put up Yep, that the old Uh 2019 So I just want to sort of Promise this where we're at. This is um An old table that has been and I'm gonna turn it over to um maria chow who Is the chair of the zoning subcommittee and probably has the most history with this but um, and she can go into this table I was surprised when I dove deep Kind of how on a date and confusing it kind of is The end goal what I'm hoping for tonight is for us to come up with sort of uh top hits of requests suggestions to town council and our planning uh department staff on of all this stuff and you know, there's a lot um And I asked the board to all kind of come with their top three in their own head and then we can kind of compile them and Because that list will go to chris bestra And it will go to rob uh mora our building commissioner and it will also go to crc Because everybody's trying to do this right now and come up with prioritization and this will um be compiled into a bigger effort so um and then hearing from town council would but They think they want to um how they want to attack it in uh in that prioritization level so I'm going to turn over to maria. Are you there maria? And maybe you can talk about this a little bit and what you're thinking Yeah, just a tiny bit because I think most of the existing planning board members have seen this for years now and um basically the short history of it is that it was Created by the last zoning some committee greg stutzman rob crowner and I and with chris breasthoff's help of course where we took literally over a decade's worth of notes town meeting articles and um issues that the planning department had been dealing with and tried to Call it down to the big picture priorities. There's a whole bunch of other Smaller more specific technical issues that then we compiled into it just like a old word document but this is sort of big picture and It was going to be reviewed it for today's agenda because I realized we as a zoning something had put our own When we organized it we already prioritized things Before we even gave a chance for other people to prioritize it in that we prioritized the five top columns you see housing downtown village centers And zoning bylaw repair and overhaul. We've already said like those are the five priorities and then under each one we then said here are objectives or strategies to improve each of those five priorities, so um, I could see how this chart was a little confusing because it's already kind of setting a tone so um, yeah, I'm really curious to hear what other planning board members think are their big sort of red button kind of things they really want to get to and I appreciated michael's focus on housing I I share that sort of passion in creating a more diverse stock for amherst and um So I guess you know if we you know, whether you want to rewrite this whole chart or just have a sort of list of 10 items I'm up for you know, however you guys want to organize it, but um, this is basically a collection of a lot of issues from decades of work that the town has done so um, yes, it's outdated and um There's a lot of things that are a little too specific maybe for what we want to present to town council, but um, I'd like to hear more people's uh response to this um Greg actually Did so many presentations of this chart and I was there for all of them and I cannot do what he did Literally went through every single one and explain the history and the reason why it's on this chart and I can't do that I I'm just not mentally Think of what I'm doing that maybe chris press out ken, but I'm not sure we need to do that right now I think I would just like to hear what other people What their sort of priorities are um, I did have a chance to read michael's and it was really useful But um, yeah, I'd like to just open up and see what other people's um You know priorities are and um to not necessarily follow this chart, but just to use it as like a springboard to you know other ideas That's a good way of saying it. This is a great framework that can springboard To that list that we want to forward Exactly You know, can we find agreement on um You know, I'm think is somewhere between 7 max 10, you know, we don't want to make too long of like a whole unrealistic, but Maybe thinking about is is town council moves forward and um over the next year. I know uh, their elections are Oh chris, maybe you can help me. Is that october of this year or november of this year? When do they have their elections does anyone remember? Because I know they want to Make their dent. They want to start taking action on this. So if Reasonably if we can sort of keep it to what are we highly recommending in a perfect world what they could sort of Get done. Um in the next Well, I guess it's about a year and a half or a little shy of that Um chris, I see your hand and then doug's I just wanted to acknowledge that doug had sent me an email that I didn't get a chance to post on the website. So I didn't Circulate it to you, but he did list Several things that he thought were important priorities and I'm sure he'll present them himself But I wanted to apologize to him for that and I um, I did manage to post michael's Email and chart because that was received a little bit earlier. I think that was received last week So those are two uh board members that I heard from and I have my own List of priorities, but I can save those for um for later and uh, so that's all I wanted to say Well chris, maybe is we're kind of I'll use the word grinding through this and establishing our list Um, you know what you're thinking might help if we're having difference of opinions on Um, what people are thinking is reasonable to attack first or whatever. So please speak up if if we're sort of headed down the wrong path Um, I also, uh, think we should and this is we can determine I was thinking we give them the list and we say We don't like it's not weighted or prioritized. We feel they're all equal or Keep in mind we we could say, you know We could number like the first three and then not number the rest You know what I think you're I'm saying so think about how we're presenting it to them too And and we could incorporate a memo with it, you know, chris could do that also Explaining some of our thinking if if so needed So, um chris uh dug no chris. I see hands falling down Doug uh Well, I put my hand down when I thought chris was going to read what I sent her but uh And and since I don't actually have that email available at the moment I'll I'll I'll try to remember what I sent and chris please correct me um, it seemed to me that when I essentially got uh, the charge to Or I guess it was somehow the invitation to be on the on the planning committee Uh focused on Improving the vitality of downtown So it seemed to me that we really ought to be focusing on downtown I know there's a the master plan Envisioned multiple village centers But I think we ought to start downtown and fix downtown before we Spread our efforts out in other areas. So I was suggesting that we um work on the The actual physical zone and the dimensional requirements for the bg zone and the bl zone and um, I think my third uh was to do with clarification of mixed use uh buildings and then uh I think I what I said to chris was that if she thought that the bl and b uh And bg zones were really one conversation uh that my alternate third item would be uh the reformatting of the bylaw um recodification Yeah, I mean I spent a fair amount of time looking at the newton massachusetts something bylaw Because I figured they're a well run town with lots of resources and if anybody can do it right, it's probably them So, uh, you know, it looks a lot different than ours and You know, it seems uh Like a model worth following, but i'm sure there's others as well I'll stop there Thank you. I also watch um harlington massachusetts there's has some really good stuff and they've been redoing it so i'm sure Rob more and chris are looking at these two Um, does anyone have any comments? Those are really good starting points Doug. I like the um Breaking it out like first downtown and then doing some bullets under it on specifics to that which I heard you say bg dimensional bl dimensional Um clarification to the mixed use. I also want to just toss out there if anyone's thinking Inclusionary zoning is very complicated, but maybe it could just be focused Um for downtown and design guidelines are another thing for downtown So I see michael's hand yes, um Pam could you put up this the uh, um This is the uh Chart that I sent in I see several other charts on the on the the other on the page Are there is there a comparison chart? there's Well, we got this one that I believe came from jack Okay, and then so then I took this one And oh this slide isn't that terrific because I squeezed it in and then these two Um, I just didn't know what all those others were Yeah, that's what it is. So this one is yours michael. I could I'd be happy to talk about mine for a second uh My sense I when I look through the chart that was sent to us in the In the packet, um It seemed Extremely redundant in several different categories Uh form-based code was mentioned in several different under in several columns The parking was mentioned in several categories and the mixed use standards were mentioned mentioned in several categories And I think those are all important But I what I did is I combined all those several mentions into one particular Categor one particular category. So they're only listed once in the charts that I've I've sent in um I think the most important thing that we need to do is Um, and I'm not sure what exactly It is but it has to do with encouraging um Varied and more Uh housing particularly at the lower end of the scale Now whether that's something that needs to go in downtown or in the village centers or both I'm not so concerned with at this point. So I think I'm I'm saying that rather than Doug's focus on Downtown I think we should focus on housing in its multiple Approaches and one of the issues there is clearly the inclusionary zoning Another one is the standards and conditions relative to a mixed-use buildings. So those those two things the mixed-use building standards and the Development of affordable housing through The I lost the word lost the phrasing Inclusionary zoning Are the two places where I think we should go and the third and fourth are up to other people So those are your top three right because there's a lot there Michael say that so what would be your top three? It's it's hard to put them they all kind of link together in a lot of ways And I'm not sure that top three is it's really a useful thing. I think Working on housing in its multiple Incarnations and aspects is what we should be doing And that includes things like Mixed use developed mixed use definitions and clarity. It includes things like affordable housing Inclusionary zoning and yeah inclusionary zoning and small houses on small lots All the stuff that's basically under the housing column Although I'm not sure where the 40 are district planning for process falls in that I don't know where we are relative to that because we haven't been talking about that much and we have Supposedly have a presentation on that at some point in the near future, but it's clear who's you know That's that's all up in the air. So I haven't listed that as something that I think is important But it's the housing issues for me for housing. Um Would that include, um, you know, two or three families by rights Expanding supplemental dwelling absolutely um Reducing single family zoning only and some districts. Absolutely Considering all those things. I'm not necessarily advocating all those things, but I know I'm advocating that they're on the list So I'm gonna call Maria Because this is really Maria's area. Um, so if we can Define some of those down Maria. We can put that on the list. Um for people to consider Yeah, no, that's been something I've really Had hope to work on more but then all this stuff can't happened. Um with COVID and then um Rob more before COVID was like thinking about zoning bylaw rewrite and so was town council But yeah, I think um, michael's exactly right. I think the keyword is unlocking housing Because a lot of our parcels just are locked up. They you know, it's particularly downtown. They're just unable to um have residential allowed and um also Yeah, if we better define mix use or apartments, we could also again unlock the ability to do um Uh denser high quantity of housing type. So those are like for um So I guess to say to town council One of my priorities would be housing and then it's basically unlocking the ability to create a diversity of housing stock But so that's you know, both apartments and mix use which would help revitalize downtown The diversity is the key word there. Exactly, right, right. And so somehow we want to include inclusionary, you know requirements within that kind of use Um, then there's this sort of missing middle. I keep bringing up in previous meetings where We create the ability for new families to move in whether it's through infill or um unlocking the ability of parcels to by right have multifamily units or um supplemental dwell well supplemental dwellings are already by right, but um Sometimes uh, you need a special permit for certain types. Exactly. So, um, just really unlocking the ability for both Individual property owners as well as developers to bring a diversity of housing stocks So I guess the way to phrase that as one big umbrella statement Would be good for town council and then like you were listing off christine All of those are ways to do that. Um, there's so many strategies to do it. And so I think we need to Not say one is a solution. We just need to create a toolbox and um I can't say one is a higher priority than the other as far as like the type of housing, but um Some of the easier ones might be just unlocking property owners rights, um, you know, people will be able to put ad use and um extra Like a duplex or a triplex on property. So that requires study. It's not like you can just rewrite it in the zoning I'm gonna hope for the best, you know, it does require some careful study of our residential zones. Um, and then Yeah, looking at downtown as far as how to unlock certain parcels like um dug and mentioned the bl and bg where You just simply aren't allowed right now because of the lot requirements. What size requirements? So, um, yeah housing is My number one. I think because I think that solves a lot of things and brings a lot of things to our town It touches on downtown it touches on um, some zoning repair that needs to happen and so, um, I don't know if we need to like list specific Uh objectives or strategies I think I would like to just present to town council that housing creating a diversity of housing stock or unlocking the ability to create a diversity of housing stock would be like my number one Because that's a really broad umbrella. And so I think it covers a lot of the other issues. Um, downtown is certainly an issue But I think if we can get more housing more people down there make it more walkable That will actually resolve a lot of things and other things Particularly emphasizing the toolbox aspect of it all there may be a diversity of types Exactly. Yeah So I see a couple more hands just to sort of trying to pair this. Um, So what I'm seeing is three of all with some subcategories because I think some suggesting some Tools in the toolbox will be helpful for them because they look to us as the The experts and that you know, we understand all these these new parts So I'm seeing downtown and under that, you know, chris can help us pull this together and then we could review it You know for the next meeting The bg the bl um, you know inclusionary zoning and clarification mixed use but Um, number two is the housing unlocking the diversity of housing and there can be suggestions in there about the two or three family You know by right expanding adu and supplemental options infill You know removing the single family only dwelling and allowing other Um densification of certain zoning districts. So and then the third one I see is recodification um and supporting that whole effort and that I kind of like how and and then sort of leaving out the villages Is what I'm hearing a little bit. Um I I just want to throw out Downtown if anyone feels that design guidelines would be helpful in the next year and a half We do have some drafts to start with from the 40 hour consultant And so I'm at that. I'm throwing it back out jack and then jan Jack. Yeah, so I agree You know housing is is huge downtown very important recodification but just looking at um Some of the light items there that that pop out at me You know, I just I just you know that that bl zone is so dysfunctional that that really bugs me that That we have a zone you know in our prescribed, you know On our bylaws and map that that doesn't work for anyone That's embarrassing um And I think in terms of village centers, I I think those are important I I think north amherst is in good shape with the development that's going on there I think I mean I and adkins corner is good christman village. I'm not so sure about I I haven't really seen Much there, but I do think east amherst and the pulmonary village south amherst uh, I think they can I would not lose sight of those when we're talking about you know areas within town when you know, for example downtown Um, and certainly the the thing that keeps on coming up is the parking requirements We certainly got to do better There because that comes every every time Um, and I'm going more than my three But I think north am at north amherst flat hills road is like a accident waiting to happen with regard to The reliance on private wells and septics there with such small lots You know within a bedrock terrain up there That's not, you know That's going to come back at some point And so, you know, that's not to be ignored Very difficult problem Hold up jack for a sec. Pam. Can you slide back to the 2019 one? Because this is michaels, which is good, but it's okay. All right, so Where is that hydrology? Oh, all right. It was in the medium under zoning of bylaw Yeah And um, you know, can I can that's a good point. Can I ask chris bestra? Is that something do you think that would be handled in the recodification or does that need to be a separate thing? I think it can be discussed in the recodification. It's something that probably requires some analysis of a consultant as to what those lots can actually accommodate Right now the zoning. I think is 30 000 square feet per lot It's probably better if it's, you know, more than that But the next step up in our zoning bylaw is 80 000 square feet, which seems Kind of beyond what should be required So it's it's got to have some technical Analysis to figure this out But that's certainly something that that I think is important and there is going to be more Development up in that area. So you might as well face it and do something about it Jack it just made me You know think about this so chris would that be an in-house thing? Or hire a consultant thing or have to go apply for a grant and Get money to do that kind of thing that would probably be hire a consultant and Currently we don't have enough money to do that right now. We have but we only have $40 000 to work on downtown In gateway rezoning. So that's you know the downtown in the area immediately north of downtown or northwest of downtown We don't really have anything in the budget to Do other types of zoning analysis? so that's something that we would have to ask to town council for as part of the capital budget and You know, I'm not sure if that's going to happen this year or if that's going to happen It's probably not going to happen this year because of our financial stresses. So, you know, there may be some things that we can Some suggestions that we can make for that area, but really to get serious I think we do need to hire Someone who knows about theology and how septic systems work, etc So that may take a little bit longer than Some of the other things which we can handle without hiring a consultant But jack just back to you so in your professional opinion because you really know you do feel what did I forget what you said? not a ticking bomb Accident waiting to happen accident waiting to happen, which is kind of funny. It's about sewer. So yeah septic Okay. Yeah accident. Yeah, it's like that. All right. Just watering of the area because of the density, you know with private wells on small lots like that, you know so, uh, you know So it's important to be on the list But yeah, it's not necessarily Yeah, it's not the top three And then uh, you know, I would like my you know, I and I don't understand it But I like my you know make my pitch for the form form base code whatever that is. It sounds great I just uh So much of the the the the code we're looking at is this seems so arbitrary So That's my two cents Thank you Janet and then I see marina sand um Can you hear me? Uh, yes Good. Um, so I'm kind of Kind of lost in process. And so I know that we've agreed um to work with rob mora who's working on a rewrite of the zoning by-law And he was talking about working very closely with the zoning subcommittee and the planning board for direction and then You know hiring consultants for issues downtown parking and different, you know, probably form based zoning issues I would guess and we have the master plan, which has an implementation matrix that has a lot of zoning changes on it We have the housing production plan, which has a ton of recommendations for zoning Changes the emmerced housing markets are the same thing And the open space and recreation plan, which I think is still a draft But also has recommendations in terms of action items need to protect um and buffer, you know farmlands and recreational lands in open space and so I'm kind of completely Lost about how like the town council I just don't understand what we're doing tonight because I feel like we have a lot of plans We have a lot of recommendations the zoning subcommittee had a last year was working on Multi-use buildings we were starting to talk about affordable housing Plus zoning requirement across the town, which is part of the recommendations of those two housing things So I just don't understand how like the town like what are they coming to us for like taking, you know 75 recommendations and what's our top five? And are they going to be doing zoning changes with rob more and the planning board and the zoning are they just going to Propose do you know, I mean like how do we coordinate all this and you know And how will we work with neighborhoods and business people and the public in terms of Getting support for these changes and so they can understand and have input in the process So I'm just kind of lost here about what we're doing. I mean, I could give you my you know, my top hit is inclusionary zoning Across the board every neighborhood every project special permit site plan review Ten or more residential units any which way any permit Let's just get that job done. It's very you know And but I but you know and the housing is the you know, the home of our town because we're basically a residential community for you know UMass and others So I I don't I don't get it like Do you know what I'm saying? I just don't get it. I mean if we're going to do form-based zoning and say to the town council I want you to do some form-based zoning. That's a massive Project and how do they work with rob more and us on getting there? I mean, do they have Are they I mean, what do they want from us kind of thing and how how can we work together? Am I so I'm sorry if I wasn't clear, but what they're looking for is a short list of what we as the planning board and semi-professionals Would recommend for them to start tackling for the next year and a half now that doesn't mean they're they're going to listen to us They could completely pick a different list or Or the planning department could have a slightly different list But it's giving them a starting point because crc will be their guiding Group To get the town council to decide What they think they will first pursue Over the next year and a half and then they will tell us that And we will assist them and work with them and the planning department to get those things done So this is our moment to speak to say what we feel Is important and realistically trying to give them a short list of what we think they should do So for top three as I said everyone should bring their top three I heard you say inclusionary zoning and I heard you say, you know the housing stock increasing that Do you have any other Top things that you would like them to work on or is that it? um, I I think I I you know, I I do have more ideas, but um, I I wonder if we need to So our is town council going to be working with rob mora or On a separate line or I mean I I see this a need I've mentioned this before I think we need someone on the planning board of the zoning subcommittee working as liaison to crc Kind of open those lines of communications I just you know, I could look at this list or the 75 recommendations and give you my top 10 or five But tonight are we going to come up with the top three to give to the to the town council regardless of what rob mora is working on Or rob mora is working on the recodification, which is its own separate thing that is based on Him working with the bylaws inconsist inconsistencies Adjusting the framework so it's easier to read and understand it hasn't been reworked in decades And aligning with current building codes Like that's his thing. That's his specialty. That's what he'll be working on and then he will be presenting it in parts I'm sure to planning board CRC and town council Then is the other part we're talking about like inclusionary zoning that would be more under the planning department and chris and she would either be working on drafting bylaw or If there's more resources needing needed like a consultant Well, town council has the power to get the funds to get whatever they need To get it done. We don't so Um And list-wise I said for everyone to bring their top three because I figured by the time we finish Compiling this it'll be more like seven to ten But like I said, we don't want to send everybody's top ten. We'll end up with like this chart Like 70 things and then that's not really helpful to them They are looking for what are they going to work on for the next year and a half I think one of those things is the recodification. But what other things can we put on the list? As heavy suggestions as they look to us as experts Is a recommendation for them to start figuring out that process And we still do our role and have our public meetings and interact with the public, you know as these bylaws roll out It's just different than it used to be with town meeting and the zoning subcommittee and that kind of thing that Doesn't really work anymore So so when Talked to us. He was talking about, you know the issues of the downtown requiring a consultant in direction from the planning board Um, and it wasn't just like i'm doing the recodification But like more substantive issues and things like that. So I thought it was like a deeper process than what you're describing now Based on what he was saying So I think he was just giving us A basic what he kind of thought nothing was written in stone And a lot of what he was talking about isn't an isn't really his jurisdiction. It would be chris best drops I I guess I just was it I just got a complete me talk for an hour We had a long discussion about the whole redoing of the bylaw and it wasn't just Moving sections around anyway. I I'm just lost on the process and how to kind of work together And I wonder if we need a liaison to the crc to kind of open up the discussion and things like that so I will Be quiet for a while and the other way CRC has a liaison to us They don't have anybody now They plan to so And that's how it was before but the players have changed on crc, but they'll have a new rep that will be the liaison with us I wonder if planning board members feel like we should have somebody too. Um, so that said I would put village centers. I think we've kind of neglected them and that's a big priority and a source of economic development for the 10 Like keeping you know bringing in more more housing to them in a way that people want to go to them and can actually walk from this to business So I think that village center planning is really important and there's been a lot of focus on the downtown I think that that would be a very long process You know questions about building heights density The bl I don't know if it's broken or we can just redo the bl or make it into village business village center for more flexibility You know part of the brokenness of the bl is just that's broken up into small You know property ownership, but there are Owners are combining and they have more flexibility. There's also some really nice buildings in the bl I would jump on the parking issue. It just seems completely I don't know what we're doing on parking and I think it really affects I think there shouldn't be a no parking district downtown because everybody in those buildings and apartments the parking You know the mixed use building standards, I think tie in very closely to the apartment complexes I would push for greater density at where we already have it which is you know apartment complexes and like see if we can get better design and more amenities for people and also increase the density of it The 40 r is not my favorite because I just don't I think that whole pro I think I just think we need to involve the neighbors and businesses in the processes before we kind of pop on a big form-based zoning um and then you know we we a lot of the master plan talks about sort of Protecting open space and recreational areas and buffer zones for foreign lands And so I think we should look at those other sides not just always, you know increasing density and housing So if we develop our village centers, we also need to protect our open lands and our farmlands and recreational land So I would look at those two as kind of a balanced type of thing Um, and then inclusionary affordable housing. We just have to do it across across developments Is that thank you I see maria then dug then jack um Hmm Someone said something that triggered uh I might have been jack who mentioned form-based code and The reason why you guys picked up on this there's a lot of repetition in this um chart from last year is that Every time under each column There was a strategy or solution that could help that column we put it there And so that's why form-based code shows up I think in all of them and it's something that would just solve so much But it's a huge undertaking It would take Way too much money that we don't have right now but That's just something to put in the back of their minds a town council's minds that you know One day when we do have the funds for it that would resolve so much of the issues happening downtown so many of the Con yeah, the conflicts that are going on the really controversial issues form-based honing Form-based zoning is like the solution to all our prayers. I really is it's just we can't you know handle some Attest that monumental right now The other thing that um janet was talking about that I don't know if we should get into this right now christine or not but about the process and the zoning subcommittee in particular because right now I'm hearing a lot of feedback that town council rob mora the planning staff they're all sort of figuring out this process about zoning fixing zoning rewrite zoning issues zoning amendments And in my mind as zoning subcommittee chair I don't think that at this point the zoning subcommittee needs to exist There are too many cooks in the kitchen that actually make the decisions and No zoning better than the zoning subcommittee. I'm speaking for myself. Um, So I really I mean we can talk about when we do the subcommittee update, but it's kind of tied into this We're trying to step out of the process As individuals and work more with like the bigger entities that are just the decision makers And have them work with the planning board because there's really great people on the planning board who all have really great ideas and experience We should work more with them rather than creating yet another small subcommittee That's storing around ideas that has no Say so in anything And not only that it's it's a huge load on the planning staff as far as getting ready for yet another committee meeting That happens twice a month. So I just want to throw that in there that the reason another reason why we're giving all this feedback to town councils because They're the decision makers. They're the ones who are going to lead this charge and priorities as far as how we You know make Amherst a better place to live work, you know be and so um Yeah, I think they they want feedback from the planning board because we've been doing this for a little while and we have Come across the same sort of issues and they just want to hear from us, you know, what are the planning priorities that are in our mind and um So, yeah, I think we're hearing a lot about housing downtown And then the whole zoning really right or by law repair or whatever. I think that's a separate trajectory We don't know what's going on with that yet But that might actually fix a lot of the issues we're talking about right now But the bigger bites I think are downtown on housing as far as um If town council wanted to think about other things to try to prioritize focusing on because Zoning the zoning by-law issue is um, I think that's another animal in itself. So um So I just want to throw that out there janet because you could mention the zoning seven committee and I think it needs to dissolve. I dug up this email from Wayne fight and from last year because we had talked to carolin mish and um, I know that chris had talked to or emailed with Wayne fight and about like, what do you guys do as far as zoning? Uh, how do you make zoning changes? And north hampton does not have a zoning sub committee. They start zoning changes from the planning staff that goes to um referred to the The planning board and then the planning board talks or works with the city council Which then refers it back to the planning staff. So they really have a Smaller circle as far as their process and how all this happens. So, um, So I just want to throw that in there even though we're going to maybe talk about it later, but um Yeah, I think the planning board should have a bigger sort of um, you know involvement in in and um thinking about zoning by-law and Uh zoning by-law amendments and that the zoning sub committee Is a thing of the past. It's um, it was good when it was around because it, you know started this sort of um back when um, I think a few members want it who actually wrote zoning by-laws. Um, but uh, I think we're not at that capacity now and um Yeah, there's too many cooks in the kitchen. So that's just My two cents Thank you I recognize jack. Then I see michael dug and janet and just to remind everyone. Um, We've got a lot of good stuff here. So um add some more comments. Um, my plan is that chris can develop, uh, You know, uh draft of our list and then it will be reviewed at the next planning board meeting on the 19th Which um, then hopefully there would be a vote and it could then be moved forward to the planning department CRC and the town council. So we've got a lot of good stuff here. So jack Yeah, so, you know, I definitely agree with marie about the zoning sub committee. It seemed like its function was kind of interfacing with town meeting and and the education process With how to deliver complex information to many people of varying levels of of You know, techno goals sort of know how And and how to process and and that's not the case now I don't think with with the with the crc and town council. They just it's just It's a lot more, you know, efficiency that they're working with the town much better and That all makes sense to me. So just wanted to say that and then uh with regard to um The late, you know functions of liaisons from the planning board. I go back to I feel like we're we're not elected people We're just appointed and then and and then when we send people To these different, you know committees like i'm on the piner valley planning commission I mean I'm very reluctant to make, you know decisions that really have a bearing on on amherst, but really That really never really comes up in my in my role there It did come up when we were electing the uh the new director for the piner valley planning commission and and uh All of a sudden there was a lot of attention to piner valley planning commission in terms of who I was going to vote for and And all this intense is like wow people So I I realized like the planning board of people when when we're representing on different committees Uh, or or we're liaison that we represent the whole planning board And and so I get nervous when we have one individual that would be that liaison Communicating for all of us. So I just I'd rather have the crc come to us like like christine mentioned Seems like a much more healthy model Uh, because again, I I feel like we're more in an advisory role And in the last I don't want to pick on anyone, but uh, I think I heard everybody needs parking downtown Not true And that's all I have Thank you. I see michael burt whistle Yeah, um In line with uh Christine's hope for a uh a top three or top five I would I want to suggest that we've got a top three and that is uh housing And it's multiple in its multiple Incarnations with the toolbox idea downtown And the uh ultimate repair and replacement of the zoning bylaw Uh, and if we submit those three ideas To crc and then to the council I think that will include almost most most of the things that we're interested in working on it doesn't leave every Then put everything in it leaves the flat hills issue and the water issue out It leaves the marijuana cultivation cultivation out at least several things out that were on the list but I think For me those are the those are the really important things and all the stuff we talk about on a regular basis Whether it's form-based zoning or zoning repair Or fixing the parking's bylaw or any of those kind of bylaw tinkerings or or big changes You know, you put it under the under the category of bylaw revision and or Redoing And the same thing is true with the downtown issues and the same thing is true with the housing issues They all overlap to some degree Uh, and that's why that all those items showed up in all the different categories in the 19 in the 2019 chart because they do they all overlap and they All fit in one place or another, but if we focus them the way i'm suggesting I think it makes more sense. It's more understandable to the crc and to the town council but these are the things that the planning board is interested in working on and uh We hope they are too Agree sounds good michael. Um So at this point, um chris, uh, can you and I sort of work together and get a draft out? Um And send that out to members so and then put it on the agenda for the next meeting to um finalize Yes, ma'am Okay, great. Thank you everyone. Um, you know, this is sort of our creative process here and it's fluid and and I think we'll do a good job and get a good list and I think it will be helpful So thank you everyone for um You're looking at this so um at this point. I'm gonna suggest we move forward chris, were there any other old business topics not reasonably anticipated? I can't think I just You can't think of any okay Um michael, I see your hand up. Yeah, I don't know whether this is a little business or new business And even it's not really not anticipated 48 hours meaning I'm driving today by the up spring street, and I noticed the building at 26 is 26 spring street And I realized that it's been Sitting there with nothing having been done to it for at least four months now And uh, I wonder if that's an issue for us Or for anybody that I wonder I'm wondering about it. Uh, did they Other other buildings are complete are continuing in spite of the pandemic Uh, that one is not I guess it's the pandemic. I have they run out of money. Are we gonna have to repurpose that site? What's going on? press I do not know what's going on. I've heard conjectures from various people, but I don't have any facts So I don't uh, I can't really I can't really help to enlighten us about that one I've noticed that myself michael so It's somewhat concerning that that building might just stay that way for 15 years unless we do something about it And that really strikes me as a bad idea Anyway, just brought it up Thanks Uh item five new business topics not recently anticipated anything Uh, we don't have any new business as far as I know. Maybe pam has something but not I do not And jenna, did you have something to say? I saw her hand pop up for now. It's gone, but we'll just raise it again if you have something Um, okay, and I don't see Pam Pam's work in there I never know I have nothing Okay Item six form a a and r subdivision applications We do have a form a yep. We're going to show you where it is She's got a map up here This is out gretz Here's your map Tom reedy has submitted this Hey in our application and so the property that's outlined here in yellow Is 10 courtland drive and the gentleman who owns this property also owns the adjacent property Which is outlined in turquoise and he wants to reconfigure these properties so that he I think he probably wants to sell The turquoise property, so he's submitted an a and r plan which pam might now show us and so Lot one is the lot on the left where the house is currently located. I might add that this property On top of the drawing here that looks like it's got bricks on it That is also a property that's owned by this fellow. I think I'm not sure what his name is schnitz He was or something like that Anyway, so he owns this property with the house on it. He owns the property with the brick pattern on it And he owns this property To the right side of the drawing which is called lot He wants to reconfigure the property line between lots one and two And so he can accommodate the building circle on both properties and also meet the setback requirements because You can see that there's a dotted line that runs very close to his house Maybe pam can show where that is this line here. Yep That's existing lot line and that's too close to the house and it also puts this little shed This little square Stripe thing between the two properties if you go up to the top that thing there It puts that I think that's actually called a cabin So that would have been on lot two And mr. Schnee wise wants to have that little cabin on his own property where the house is And also have the appropriate setbacks to that cabin and The cabin does have the appropriate setbacks in this drawing And the deck also has the appropriate setback the deck is I think it's four feet high And so it's set back a distance. No, it's three feet high. So it's set back a distance equal to its height So Rob Mora has examined this drawing closely and it meets the Zoning requirements and the town engineer has also examined this closely and he recommended that there be an easement which is The kind of hatched area that's shown down closer to the road that area there Which would be a sewer easement that would allow the sewer in courtland drive To serve both lot two and lot one Um, so that's that's why that sewer easement is drawn there So mr. Reedy would have been here except that he needed to be in uxbridge at a zoning board of appeals Um tonight, so he wasn't able to be here But he did uh ask that we present this drawing to you This anr and ask if you would authorize the Planning board chair to sign it Good does anyone have an issue with me signing raise your hand Does any questions? I'm not seeing any hands. So I think um, I think we're good chris Okay So I'll get the drawings together and I'll let you know when um, they're all together And uh, ask you to come in and sign them christine Great. Thank you Uh item seven upcoming zba applications I don't have anything new to tell you um, they're still still um Taking on the comprehensive permit for 132 north hampton road And they will be meeting again tomorrow night Okay, thank you There's something that just came in pam last week that we put into munis. What was that? You helped marine to put it into munis Remember what that was? Yes, that that's the appeal for that's right. Yep. So that's that's the appeal Right. Okay. But I thought everybody knew about that. Yes, right So item um eight upcoming spps pr sub applications The one thing that i'm aware of is that um survival center Is coming in uh, they um are trying to serve their population And not allowing anyone to come into their building and right now they have a tent in their parking lot and um because You know winter is coming on They want to have a more um secure building or temporary building that is capable of withstanding snow and also You know, it's a little warmer than just having a tent So because the workers from the survival center have to be in this building and serve the People who come for food or whatever they're coming for So anyway, they want to propose a structure that they're describing as a Temporary structure and they're sometimes they talk about it as being a shed So they're going to be coming to you on the second of september To make this proposal and i've been working with the With lev ben Ezra On the application for that So you'll be seeing that and and pam I don't can't think of anything else that we have coming before the planning board Can you No Okay Okay, thank you. Um, i'll move to item nine planning board uh committee and liaison reports. Um So pioneer valley planning commission jack Uh, I I believe there's no a quote unquote recess Going on right now. Um Not sure when we're meeting next but um It's been quiet Are they going to do zoom meetings or oh, we've been doing zoom meetings, but uh You know that was uh Geez I can't remember when the last one was definitely in june. I'm not sure we did one in july so it's summer summer Okay, I'll be get started up september time Um community preservation act committee, uh nothing to report there or for the design review board um So before we move on to zoning subcommittee, I just um I just jack, do you know how many years you've been on pioneer valley planning commission? Um See when I start like four years ago four years ago. Yeah So four years i'm just and um, and you have now moved up to the level that you're also on their executive committee Correct. Yeah, okay and with um my moving on that will open up a slot for someone else on the planning board to be the alternate commissioner if they would like to to keep that in mind um the agricultural commission david was on that is also open And um michael, how many years have you been on the uh c pack and the design review board? Been on the design review board for three years and c pack for two For two, okay So i'm just asking because um, you know in the past um Usually members rotate a little bit try different committees and I want the other members And there'll be new members coming on um To fill those spots, but where you guys are the existing members if if you know, this is a good time to sort of reconsider move um like um With the uh, if the zoning subcommittee goes away, um, you know, michael like you have two big ones there You may not want both um and other members might want to you know, those are two of the pretty powerful ones. Um And so just keep in mind that other committee members might you know Want to stuff a little on one of those so think about which one you like the most or something Give up either or both of them Well, what do you want some? Well, and that's the point. I think so, um, we'll have Over the about a month now. Hopefully you'll be getting a couple of new members. Um elections would happen You know the board votes. Um, so just I'll give it a little thought You know and if other members do Want that, um, they might speak up, but Michael I guess what I'm saying is maybe if you have a preference for one Um, that you might want to make that known so that people know that Like that one you like more than the other one or whatever Or maybe you like them both the same. Um, just toss that out because you know, just to rotate it around. Um So, um, I'll move on to zoning subcommittee and um Christine yes Sorry, thank you. Didn't see your hand. Thank you Doug Yeah, I I wanted to know All of you guys that are liaisons Uh, what does that involve? Do you go to every meeting of that entity or do you call the chair once every two months or You know, what what's the level of commitment involved? The level of commitment is you are expected to attend the meetings of those Um boards or commissions or committees um That is the expectation. So it is an added. Um Uh duty to your normal planning board. Um, so it is a commit, you know a commitment and some people Just don't have the bandwidth and that's okay. They're not on any of the committees. Um, but um You know We used to have some additional ones on there, but That the list is shrinking which is kind of good because there's already so many demands on us. So um So like I said, when you have new members coming in, this is when you might all want to look at this with the chair Christine in response to Doug's uh In terms of the design review board and the community preservation act committee We're not liaisons. We're members of those committees Uh, it's not that it makes any real difference, but they're voting members. It makes a huge difference CPAC also is a voting member. So the only and correct I'll show commit. I don't Chris. Do you know if on the ag committee commission? Do you vote as a member? Are you just um, I think it's a liaison But did I was a liaison and the other ones are members Right The design review board the CPAC and um, the piner valley Vogue Janet Janet She's muted but He's also frozen You're frozen janet and muted. Okay. I'm moving All right, can you unmute me then somebody? Um, yeah, I can I've been trying to yeah, you're frozen Um, but it's but it's interesting. I was just able to clear. I think she might be good now. Yep Yeah, your wi-fi is just are you in a basement or something? No, because it's like wherever you are usually No problem, but tonight a lot of a lot of issues Janet you're right. Yeah, you're just frozen. You're gonna have to go by by and try logging in again Okay, I'm gonna assume that she's gonna close out and then log back in um Maria No other hands Maria. Do you want to talk about zoning subcommittee? Yeah, just briefly but also maybe when we get new members It'd be great if whoever's on current committees just talks about like Number of meetings a month and commitment and what it's like because I have no idea what the other commitments are for the other fourths um But yeah, as far as Ellen could some committee already mentioned. It's just a now defunct group I mean especially with you going christine It'd just be you Janet and I and even if we had 10 people on the board. It just still doesn't make sense Sorry the subcommittee because um, there's a lot of other heads sort of going coming together to work on zoning rewrite So, um, I don't know. Do we have to vote to nullify or can we just dissolve it? I don't know if there's a formal process we need to do but um Yeah, I think the zoning subcommittee is uh No longer needed There are other towns that had it when they had big things going on like master planning or uh other big initiatives, but um Now the balls and someone else's court. So um, yeah chris. Do you know if we need to do some sort of formal Thing to say zoning subcommittee is no longer a I think you probably should to take a formal action Years ago. They took a vote to create it. So you would take a vote to end it um, so can I make a motion to Dissolve the zoning subcommittee and I interrupt you all Janet McGowan has left the meeting. Oh Just just so you know, you know that I mean I have noted it here in the minutes But I have no idea if she's trying to come back. Okay. Um Do I suggest we don't make the motion until jenna comes back because she's a committee member So yeah, it would make sense, but that's the general sense of the direction of that subcommittee. It's just it's no longer useful I agree and I just is someone who's been on it. Uh, I wonder if this if she has called in Can we ask this person who they are? I bet it's Janet because it's brand new You're in I mean, I'm just listening just keep going guys. I'm just gonna hang up Well, Janet, we were just saying that the zoning subcommittee Is no longer really a useful entity because there's other bigger groups making decisions and so we're talking about making a formal Motion or vote to no longer have that subcommittee You know, I I would actually strongly object to that because it's not on the agenda And I'm in the vice chair of the committee and I haven't heard about it but it seems you know, like it's been talked about by others and I think maybe we should push this to september to sort of discuss because Yeah, I people I think people need to refresh a little bit of what robor was talking about in terms of Who he was planning on working with I was also going to suggest that we also talk maybe in september As a planning board about how we're going to implement the master plan and the master plan implementation committee We had been talking about months ago. So I I don't think that you know, it's nine o'clock or 10 o'clock on a meeting throwing us in at the end is kind of a Seems just seems really out of order to me I'm on this committee and and I just I I could see a role for it I'd like to talk about it and think about it and talk to the committee members not hear that like, oh It's not important. Let's get rid of it Well the committee members would be you and me and um, like I mentioned before Right now, there's too many things going on for the planning department to really put more energy and time into yet another by monthly meeting that isn't really going to be achieving much because The town could we talk about this? Could we talk about this one? It's on the agenda in a more kind of thoughtful way And you know put it off for two weeks or a month or so. I mean, we're not going to meet anyway So now we're not and maybe some maybe it might be some members on the board now or in the future be interested in You know revitalizing it. I certainly am I guess it's it's uh, yeah, we can definitely discuss it later. I make sense too, but I also want to just have you But think in your thought process think about the planning staff as well then their time So yeah, we can discuss it more but also consider that as a reason to not have it so um, so give that some thought um I could put together a memo or a list of things to send to chris breast up to then circulate As reasons why the sony subcommittee is defunct and then we can talk about it a later meeting But um, sure. I just think it sort of it seems to be I'm kind of completely surprised by this And um, you have to say jennet. I've mentioned it to you. Um Well, you actually mentioned it to me on a phone call as a done deal which makes me wonder if you have been talking with Others about it. I don't understand this process. I don't get it done deal, but I did talk to you about it I'm on the committee also Michael. I do see it. Um, I'm on the committee maria's on the committee and um I think all the reasons why maria has mentioned that This is not a good use of our time It's no longer Doesn't fit For a moment open meeting And let me just finish and I also agree that it's I want chris bestrup to have time to write zoning bylaws Not be preparing for yet another meeting where Nothing really gets accomplished. I want her to be writing the zoning bylaws and bringing them to the planning board But I hear you I and That you know You don't want it to be dissolved and you are a member and I think we want to hear reasons You know specific reasons why you think it needs to Keep going but before you do that think about for a minute. I want to call michael has been very patiently With a raised hand. I also see chris bestrup. So i'm going to have michael talk then chris and then janet if you raise your hand like You can talk more Thank you. Um when maria mentioned this notion of The zoning subcommittee being irrelevant An hour or so ago when we were talking about the priorities That's the idea first came up there. One of the things that Marie you mentioned was the idea of the possibility that perhaps the the planning board should on a regular basis Discuss these things. I would be certainly reason I would be reasonable. It seems to me and again This is I don't want to get ahead of this Uh, it would seem to be reasonable if we're going to abolish the zoning subcommittee that we put a An assumed hour in every planning board meeting to talk about zoning issues as as one of you know as as number Seven right after your business or something like that. I'm someplace in there that that becomes a regular Uh Point now maybe we're we'd just be responding to things that uh That chris would bring us. Maybe we would be talking about these priorities that we've been talking about for much of the evening, but uh, we get so bogged down in In reviews one server another that we seldom have chance to talk about the thing that I think the Board is most appropriately the venue for which is planning zoning So if we abolish the notion of the planning board having anything to do with zoning and give it to the planning department And give it to mr. Mora and give it to the crc. Then what are we doing here? We're supposed to be doing zoning and if we don't do it through a subcommittee We've got to do it through the whole body and i'm happy to do it through the whole body okay, thank you michael chris bestra and Then I see maria's hand I just wanted to mention that um, rob mara and I are going to meet with the community resources committee on 15th And we're going to be talking about How we're planning to approach The rewrite of the zoning bylaw and we'll certainly bear on this discussion He and I are going to prepare a presentation And um, you know, I can keep you up to date on what we're doing it our next Planning board meeting on the 19th. We haven't gotten Lot down on paper yet But we're working on it and um, so I think it'll be enlightening to talk about it on the 19th And to talk about it on the 15th of september if you wanted to Attend or listen in the prc meeting, which I think it's going to be at two o'clock And Thank you for and uh janet i'll recognize you next and then maria, but uh chris that sounds good. Could you say that date again for us? september 15 Is that right? Um Probably a tuesday So um, great meeting virtually with us tuesdays Okay, and you will have a list of priorities from the planning board and you'll have your own and this is sort of a meeting of the minds and That's good to hear. Thank you. Um janet So, you know, this is something i've been thinking about for a while, which is You know, especially since we're going to have new members is maybe talking Like having a day retreat or something like a you know A morning a few hours or an afternoon On a weekend to talk about how we want to organize ourselves and focus on Um, you know, because everyone you know throughout the year people well made suggestions Like jack gemstick was looking for you know, like how to you know, in town. How do we get more land for you know, research parts Um, but marshal has that thing with the whole construction. You know, how why we have to read that aloud Um, we can also I think talk about how we operate as a board And maybe the zoning subcommittee the master plan implementation committee Reorganizing our meetings a little more to focus on planning because it just it seems to be our weak point Um, and you know, maybe even just the process of how we go through every two weekend stuff So it might be time for like a board retreat with some new members to kind of figure out how to move ahead You know working with the zoning updates and things like that So that's just a suggestion who've been thinking about for a while. So Anyway, that's it Thank you. Um, I just want to remind everyone about the zoning subcommittee that um The planning board creates it dissolves it it can be recreated so as things evolve over the next year or two or You know, and it could come back in a different capacity and also the the mpic will also hopefully be Developed over the next year and I think that will be more comprehensive than just planning board members But there might be one or two planning board members who so that might get added to our list of planning board committees and liaisons So um, keep that in mind Maria um, I just want to say that uh, I'd actually emailed chris breastrupt June 4th About the zoning subcommittees usefulness and whether we could you know, of course we that was right We were not meeting and uh, and I thought is it even worth starting up meeting again? And then I said is it even worth existing? And so we had a brief phone call I just want to apologize to janet about like being in the dark about it. It was something that I'd been thinking about for a while Obviously, I didn't realize it was that long ago And that I just really thought with so many moving parts so many Cogs in the machine all going to the same goal. It just didn't make sense to have the two of us You know sitting around discussing Fusionary zoning and housing as much as I'd like to it's something That wouldn't really result in anything and it's a huge load on the planning department. I just keep you know emphasizing that as well So we don't have a big decision tonight. We're certainly not going to be meeting for a while So it's not urgent, but it's sort of the general direction that um, I think we're heading toward and like fistine said if it needs to come back you can come back later, but um Anyways, yeah, I just dug up my email. It was from like June 4th. It was like I just had this bug in my ear like, you know, this doesn't seem like a thing. We really Need anymore. So, um, but yeah, janet, I I didn't think of it as something that needed to talk to everyone about at that time So I guess we had been meeting it would have come up, but we don't mean yeah I just I just sort of talked to chris breast strip about it and um, you know It was in my head Yeah, as it was mine, too And I've talked to chris breast strip about it mostly because of staff resources and yeah at this time If anyone's noticed lately, I've been really really fighting to try to get some stuff off chris's plate and and you know Be able to have her focus on what we really want her to focus on for us. So Um chris, I would like to recommend that you put this on the next planning board meeting on the 19th I think that gives everybody enough time to think about it and We're able to plan it up again then So with that said I think we're done with the Committee and liaison reports that was a lot But we're kind of doing some housekeeping here that we haven't done in a long time and need to do We're in a time of transition. So I'm going to move to item 10 report of chair, which um a little sad to say I want to thank everybody for This past year has uh It's been crazy. It was a really good learning experience for me. Um, I really loved working with you all I think we did an incredible amount of work And we even have really mastered doing this through kovat online pros and cons with both Um My term runs out at the end of this month So, um with that We need to get new leadership. Um I did talk to uh jack and we I think we would both if he'll accept we We would like to nominate um Doug Marshall to replace me as chair Um, and we can open this up to discussion first. He has to even say hit entertain the idea But I think you would be great. You've really hit the ground running even though you're our youngest member. Um Are we doing nominations now or letting now Well, you have to have a chair and I won't be here. So, um Okay, I mean I mean, is this normally an agenda item? I'm kind of lost now. Um, sometimes No, always because people leave it's been done all different ways over the past five years that I've been on the board You could nominate Doug as a as a chair until you have elections I think what you're gonna do is Until you have your new members You have an election So Doug could be nominated Interim chair You get new members Or formal elections the elections are usually put on an agenda To reduce a formal agenda item Well, we can do it that way Doug would you um, except I I've just asked finishing the question Michael and that would would you accept a um to be Interim chair and then elections would be held when um The new members, uh Are brought on in september Yeah, yeah, I'd be willing. Um Sure I'm I'm I'm gonna be out of town on the 19th Yeah, oh, so we would do it in um, so you know, I I I hope to call in I I know I have Wi-Fi where I'll be but I I can't guarantee that I'll be available at the next meeting And we still have a vice chair for that or we will okay, um So Michael, uh Am I yeah, I am um Are you saying that you're not going to be the chair at the next meeting at the next two meetings that you're You're leaving right now There's only one more meeting and I'm not sure I can make the 19 Okay We have a vice chair We we do but I it's saying that I would like it seems to me totally out of out of Out of order to Appoint a new chair when we know that we're going to have at least two more met two new members of the board maybe three coming on in september uh, and we have a Perfectly buying functioning vice chair to operate until such a such time as we have a full board to elect a new chair I think we could but what I just asked is if Doug would be interim chair I understand I don't mind what I'm saying is we don't need an interim chair. We have a vice chair right now So we we could But my concern is we are in covid and the crc has Has not done this before and if It could be a while before we could have new members in september or it could take longer So we have a we have a meeting scheduled for interviews At the end at the end of august yes but it's We've been here before and it didn't happen. So I I'm just remembering I don't think you've been here before it. It didn't happen. I think the last time the last time there were interviews Doug was Appointed almost immediately there after that's that's the most now this was supposed to happen by june 30th And it didn't know that but there weren't any there weren't any interview scheduled. There was not a pool There was not a pool that was deemed adequate. There is now Okay, okay, okay, okay. I'm not done christine. There are uh, there are Interview scheduled and the crc is immediately going to recommend to the council Whoever they recommend and those people will be seated If not at the first meeting in september certainly at the second meeting in september and it seems to me It's really inappropriate for us six people To determine who the chair is going to be when at least two of us won't be there. Maybe three of us won't be there Okay, so just to put in perspective. I've been a new member on a committee when they do elections and it's How they don't necessarily know how to vote because they don't know us they don't know Who has wants it who who's good at what? And so often I didn't even vote because I had no perspective on how to make such a decision and I relinquished the decision to the veteran members who Knew far better than I what would be best for moving forward as leadership That's clearly was your choice and a reasonable one But other people coming onto the board may not have that point of view They may think they know what they're doing and may want to vote for somebody and maybe Let me remind you that elections are supposed to be done by june 30th every year So by the time these people come on we're already two months into that year. We're behind So this should have been done back in june but it wasn't because of various things So what i'm saying is They will be voting but there's only 10 months left at that point And then you're supposed to revote every year So This is we seem like a big set of problems to me Why don't we just talk about this, you know one thing maybe we should reschedule the august 18th meeting Here's my thing if this is my last meeting. I'm just looking at this is we can't push everything What is with this like next meeting more talk like look this is I proposed an interim chair because I'm stepping down We can vote on it if I hear a motion from someone. I'm going to there's some raised hands We can vote on it and if There's if it doesn't pass it doesn't pass. So I'm just pitching that I feel like the end It feels like the end of this meeting is like a giant open meeting hot violation. Why I mean Why wasn't this on the agenda? Why didn't we know about this weeks? You know I don't understand what's going on the planning board rules and regulations It very clearly says we're supposed to do this every year By the end of the fiscal the end of june 30th It's what we're supposed to do. There's nothing So so this problem has been on about for months and now we're talking about it at 10 o'clock at night at the end of a meeting with no notice Because things are never and talk about it But yeah, the vice chair can do the next meeting. You knew I was leaving so I didn't know I knew you were going to be here next week. If I wasn't going to be it doesn't matter I'd still be doing this Even if I had one more meeting left This is the end. I'm leaving. We all knew I was leaving. So we should have all been thinking about who should replace me and You know jack is the norm that you default to but he has a very heavy workload. So he doesn't want to so He'd rather stay his vice chair, which is fine. And so My thinking after a lot of thought I just I wanted to put out there is we're allowed to do I'm just pitching that Forget intro. I mean I I asked if Doug Marshall would want to be chair So normally I know Janet you're only been on the board for a year but when this happened last year then we talk about it and You know other people can volunteer too and we can have multiple votes, but this is what happens every year I'm on my fifth year. This happens every year Well, why don't we appoint Michael because he's been there for four years and knows how to run a planning board meeting and Can cover for a few weeks or a month. It seems very I just I don't know why we're talking about this without you know, just but I just let's take somebody who's been around for a while Gone to maybe too many planning board meetings and just have him run the show for a month. There's you know the next month and We'll notice the vote and well people will know it is and we'll think about it and it seems very on the fly well I've given my recommendation. I'm going to call on some other hands. Janet. I know you can't raise a hand But I cannot try to have a dialogue with you. You have to either say I'd like to speak and then I'll put you in the queue Okay, that's good. Um, and you know Okay, maria um, so I I'm I forget what the name of my term is secretary. I don't know what I am but anyways I don't have the capacity both mentally and time wise to be chair and I fully support Doug Doug is a planner and architect and knows this stuff um He's the newest member, but he knows what we're talking about very fully and I just The fact that he was willing to even take it. Um, you know to step up. I really appreciate it and I think that um You know There might be other people who want to do it or have time to I I certainly can't um, I don't know jack what your situation is but um Yeah, it's just I think jack was I don't know that all the proper terms but number two and then I was number three and so that's just the way that the things sort of Run around and um, yeah, I don't know if chris, you know, like What the protocol is if if both the second and third In chain can't really um step up You know what you The official steps should have been but um, I fully support Doug so Jack Yeah, it looks like we lost jenet She's still listed over here in attendees. That's what I just went looking for Janet can are you there? I can hear you, but I can't see me which you know met me just fine Says because you're on a telephone now, right? No, I hung I hung up I I I moved my my um computer and I'm in a different room now Oh, okay. I see your name. You just haven't turned on your screen. Yeah, we'll figure that out, but anyway Okay jack, I believe you're so I just want to say I mean obviously christine and I have talked not violating open meeting law probably You know six months ago a while and I you know and you grind along you know in life and Where I'm at right now is you know, I have a new job started that In february it's it's great But I'm uh and I also have some other commitments some which I'm pulling out of And then this pioneer valley planning commission thing I want to take very seriously That meets, you know monthly In addition to the you know quarterly meetings for the commissioners And so that weighed on my mind and then also like man, you know christine has done just An amazing job as the chair is like I was like, holy cow. How can I you know? And so I I have all these expectations of myself of like if I was to be chair and and do it You know to the best of my ability and and and so and that's that's where I was uh cautionary and I you know and christine had that information you know and marie Has already, you know said her case and and uh, and I I just had to say that um, you know, no disrespect to to mike we you know, but uh, dug has He's been pretty, um For me, uh impressive in terms of I I don't know that For me. I was like on the board for like a year Uh It's like and I what's all this about and I think the first meeting Doug was like He didn't skip a beat and so I was just very impressed by it and then He's a planner And and uh christine said that he was interested so I I support, you know, dug if he can do it whether it's in term um Whatever I but I I have we would be in good hands with with dug uh, I have no doubt uh, and that's You know, that's how I have looked at but I have really been struggling I've been struggling with this because I knew christine was leaving I'm the vice chair. I know I could do it, but I I want to do it really well and um You know, I just question that You know now's the right time in my life to take to take that on and um and you know, again, I I apologize To to you know, oh Janet you get your you're back on video But but anyway, it was it's been all on me and I maybe this You know, I don't know how you get dialogue on something like this, but it's just um It was personal to me um But christine had you know, uh a suggestion of dug and I think It you know, it's a good one. It's a good one. So um And that's you know, that's where I'm at You know on this, but I understand Mike and Janet This is it's 10 o'clock and It's tough, but I don't want christine to leave. I mean, that's my choice right there. So what do you do? Well, I would liked I would feel better leaving with at least an interim chair. Um, I think it shows leadership and Rotary amongst ourselves I think dug is we're so lucky to have him. Um, he's really proved his worth In the eight months or that we've had him You know, I I would like to um, oh I see chris's hand, um chris But I just wanted to talk about the way this is traditionally done so traditionally the People get appointed. I mean ideally to the planning board in june Um, they get appointed in june and they take office the beginning of july So traditionally we wait until People are appointed and as I said, it's an ideal Scenario because often you don't actually get appointments until september but in my experience The the elections are usually put on the agenda as an as an item and they're usually Put on the agenda after the new members Take office So my recommendation as I said before would be to put it on the agenda for one of the september meetings after You get your new members and Hold formal elections at that time and to elect an interim chair At this time to carry you through until you have your formal elections And you would have to do that anyway if you got to a meeting Say you got to the meeting on the 19th of august and nobody And neither maria nor jack wanted to chair you would have to elect A chairperson for that particular meeting So one way or another you're going to have an interim chair until you have your elections So this seems like a reasonable thing to do to elect an interim chair tonight That's what I would like to do Janet I see your hand and then michael I think you're raising your hand So I don't want to be And quite dug in any way because I think he's been a great add to the planning board also I don't think we can vote on something This is a violation of open meeting law to be voting on an interim chair or any kind of vote Without notice this is obviously could be seen under you know could have been it's not something that came up suddenly I assume christine was going to be our chair until the end of august If we show up at the next planning board meeting and nobody wants to be chair The vice chair doesn't want to be chair the secretary wouldn't be chair Let's appoint that person that I'm not comfortable voting. I'm not voting against dug in any way But I just not comfortable voting without an item that's never around the agenda that was you know Beyond I hate to use a legal term foreseeable But it's I don't know how we got here and I'm not going to be voting on anybody or anything So I think that's an open meeting law violation michael Yeah, I don't I don't Not focused on the question whether it's an open meeting law violation. I don't know about that That's not that's not what I'm interested in. Uh, it's the responsibility of the vice chair Is to serve in the absence of the chair If christine gray mullen is not going to be here on august 19th It's jack's duty if you will to chair the meeting Uh, we don't need an interim chair. That's what the that's what the vice chair is for Has jack agreed to be vice chair? Films it for the chair finished. I'm not finished christine. Okay jack you agreed to be vice chair a year ago Or whatever it was um, it seems to me that uh, you should continue to be vice chair And serve as chair in the absence of the chair Uh, as as long as you remember the board. I just don't think we need to have this kind of uh, uh Decision being made at this point. We don't need a bite. We don't need an interim chair We have a vice chair so That no you'll have no chair. So what a vice chair does is it fills in for the chair But there won't be any chair. You're supposed to have a chair That's a that's a that's a Here's my thing. We're voting on an interim chair. I I don't see the problem with that Well, the problem with that with all the respect of dug is the interim chair is then the de facto chair What it comes time to electing a permanent chair So is it That you want to be chair michael? No, I don't want to be chair So last thing I want to do because my my only real function in this body is to be a a goad I'm not the chair. I've that's not my function. That's not my role. I don't want to be chair Okay, janet. Do you want to be chair? I'm sorry. You're muted I I I feel like we've gone from talking about getting rid of the zoning subcommittee To voting on an interim chair and you know, I don't see any talking about chair chair full chair Do I want to be chair? I I'd like to think about it more than 20 seconds. I I don't know Is this normal process? Is this why can't we just wait till I'm just tossing it out that if Jack's not up for being chair and neither is maria and I'm gone and michael doesn't want to be chair Doug has said he's willing to be chair There's only you like so there's only two options. So I don't understand What it makes a difference if it's september or if it's now There's one or maybe two people who would want to be chair I'm an attorney. There's an open meeting law. There's no open meeting law with this janet. You don't have to publish An interim chair Okay, I'm just not supporting what we're doing here. I just don't understand this This is just very strange christine. I just don't understand it. I'm leaving I've been trying to leave for A year and four months Everybody can proceed and vote. I'm just I'm not going to vote on this I just think this is really irregular and it's hard for me to understand And I I know you think this is really an odd position But I don't think you understand how odd it is To have someone at 10 15 at night say do you want to be chair? We need a chair, you know, I'm leaving I just think this is just everybody knew I was leaving. I don't know what the mystery is here There had to be a new chair. It should have happened in june We're in august Everybody knew I was leaving So something was gonna have to happen. So this is where everyone should have been thinking How do we see this moving forward and normally it goes to the vice chair or the secretary But that's not happening in this instance. So I think Doug Marshall would be a fantastic interim chair right now and have your elections in the fall with your two or three new members That's what i'm pitching. I I don't think there's anything Outrageous there's only five of us um, I mean the six of us but um And it just in case something happens and things don't roll out the way, you know, we're in covid We have no idea it. So I'm sort of living life right now if we can do it today And just make some action and and keep leadership and keep things moving forward. Let's seize the day and and This is it's just an interim So anyways, I would and I feel terrible for Doug. This is so Aco like what the heck like we're just trying to get a temporary chair To be able to work with chris like to keep things moving forward This just seems so destructive to me to not even want to vote for an interim chair What else is there need to think thought about for two more weeks or a month or six weeks We're just trying to do an interim chair if we can do elections in september fantastic But it may not happen. It may be october november. We live in very strange times right now So as chair, I was just trying to leave you all in good hands And I couldn't think of a better set of hands than Doug Marshall to lead the way He has shown nothing but exemplary leadership And knowledge and shocking. I know he's going to be all embarrassed now how fast he came up to speed and I I I am going to say I think he knows more than than all of us so Except for not you chris So anyways, I strongly would like to have a vote to vote Doug Marshall to be our interim chair This is literally what I am asking you. I I have given myself As much as I could this past year and the five years on the board and this is the last thing I'm just asking That don't leave yourself without a leader. We have an Amazing person here who's willing to step in is the interim chair and I'm asking you to please consider I see janet then jack then chris Janet you're you're muted again I had the the schedule hand up. Sorry Okay, um jack Yeah, I just I I just want to say that I would support dug but you know, I have no problem being You know the interim person but in my mind Knowing that dug is interested, you know, he would be my vote But I don't mind being you know in this transitional role being You know doing that and you know a couple meetings but You know, that's I I feel discord here and You know, I don't like That feeling within the board So I know I would support dug once we have the chair come up Full but if you know, I'd be willing to chair the next couple of sessions as a bridge and then you know, I I'd nominate dug But is that a difference than just not nominating him now? So I You know, I feel yeah a sense of duty But I I I You know, I'm hearing What you know, I guess I'm interested in what what chris You know feels is correct. I mean like I think christina said like there's no It's all over the place in terms of how things are done In this situation and yeah, we should have been on agenda Perhaps but I mean, I didn't even really know uh You know today was I I didn't even know dave actually left, you know last meeting Isn't he's in the he's in the you know the in the participants there is like wait a minute We forget to add so but anyway, I um, I just wanted to do the right thing and um Everyone knows my my intentions what my desire are and you know and Just want to do the right thing here and I think we need your help chris to make sure we're doing the right thing chris So I would be comfortable with having jack serve as interim chair between now and the time you have your elections um an alternative would be to actually put an interim election on the agenda for August 19th, but you would only have five members available to vote So, um, it seems to me that the best scenario in my mind would be to have jack Chair the next couple of meetings and then schedule your election for September when you have your full complement of members That would be my advice michael I'd like to hear what uh doc has to say Everybody else has been shooting their mouth off Well, let's put dug in an even harder spot now dug Now I'm unmuted Right. Yes, you are. Okay. Um So I wasn't really Looking to become chair Especially as fast as this would be Uh Christine's compliments notwithstanding. I don't feel like I know everything about Amherst zoning And I'm I'm I'm rather afraid that if I were chair I would display that ignorance More often than I've been able to so far um I actually agree that this is awkward, uh And I think My feeling at the moment is that if jack is willing to Act as the bridge Uh, you know with and we all need to keep in mind that he's not really Able to give it the time or attention that I think he Would like to that we then you know Commit to having in a some sort of Uh election You know with or without me in the mix um In it's in September, you know, and then I I don't know how Certain it is that we will get our new members, but You know, it seems like even if there's only five of us who need to Go along for a couple months It doesn't seem like jack really wants to be that In that the leader for very long So so I at the moment I would Sort of second what chris is suggesting which is that we uh Ask jack to to to help us forward and and try to Minimize the load he has to carry during that time well said dug nice leadership I um I have to say i'm disappointed I think we have something really great that we're walking away from And I hope we don't regret it I hope we do have members in september and I'd like to clarify that today that if we don't what if we only have one Or we only have two Or maybe we do have all three now. You're talking about three out of seven people that Haven't even ever been to a meeting before And that's a lot of pressure to put them right in the election to choose their leader um, and I I'm just saying we we could have set a tone here with an interim But I don't understand why when you actually whether it's a surprise or not It shouldn't have been a surprise and when we look to who we have when we look at this I'm gone. So we look to the five Who's your leader? Who's going to lead you? So You know part of being on planning board is you have to make decisions You have to take action And I I don't think we took action today. I think we just made a really awkward moment and made someone who Should be I think our leader we we gave him Not a welcoming feeling this was not teamwork. So I have to say I'm very disappointed and I'm really sad that this is how I'm ending My year as chair, but Janet I see your hand Janet you're muted In a bid to avoid a vote can can jack just act as vice chair and haul on a couple of meetings and then um We don't have to vote and jack will just be the vice chair taking over temporarily until we get a You know on the agenda and make a vote and all that good stuff I don't know when that will happen because if it's If you don't have any members in the beginning of september Then you only have five members. So you're shrinking I think we can handle that situation But at least we know we're be heading into it But christine, I do appreciate all the work it takes to be a chair and I know I hope it doesn't end on a really sour No, I just You know if jack can step up as vice chair for one or two meetings. That's fantastic But you know, I know you put a huge amount of effort into this and I wouldn't want to end it on this So, you know, I mean this takes hours and hours and hours and just even reading those insane site You know those documents and just it's kind of just you've done a really, you know, good job. So Thank you Thank you chris I don't think you have to have an election to have jack serve as chair Because he's the vice chair. So if christine's not here Then jack would be the normal person who would step into that role. So there's really no need for an election at this time and in september when you have your election scheduled Then you would choose your chair and your vice chair and your clerk at that time so adios hasta la vista Motion to adjourn Well, we're a port of staff chris. Do you got anything? I wanted to say thank you to christine for all her hard work christine helping Team And thank you very much christine and I wish you great luck and happiness in your new endeavors Madame chair You know Made such a big impression on me and her dedication Again She she put the bar Pretty high, you know, I've seen chief driver um Greg studtsman and And I know that christine worked hand in hand with you chris Uh above and beyond the call of duty just because you've gotten waylaid with the changing government and everything else on your docket and um But again, um Don't be disappointed Christine you've been a huge success And and I think Doug's cool I think Doug is very cool. All right. All right So I apologize to Doug for for this and I have great hope that it'll all work out Um, and thank you all. Thank you all for working so hard. I want to thank pam pam You are fantastic. You are like the wind beneath this whole thing Yes Seriously, thank you In a pleasure the amount of work that you have to do and the amount of stuff and Things you're juggling. It is amazing And please pace yourself take care of yourself And I look forward to a lot of great things happening this next year Bye everyone Are we adjourned 10 29? Yep 29