 This is great. Bear, you have to be quiet. Don't sit next to Jan. She likes to chatter. I love to take my mouth shut. I call it contributing. Sometimes it's contributing. Sometimes it's sidebars. All right, so let's get started. How's it coming on things not on the agenda? If you don't know, I'm Larry Bush. I'm on the Conservation Commission. And I just wanted to come and give you guys and anybody else who's here, kind of a personal invitation to an announcement about the fall foliage walk that the Conservation Commission is sponsoring this year. It's kind of a, it could be a kind of a special one, I'll say this. It'll be in the Bliss Pondtown Forest on Saturday, October the 5th, starting at 9.30. It's not signed. No, it's not signed. I'm sorry. It's supposed to be personal, so I don't think it's signed. Oh, no, it's not. I'll give you mine. And Eric Sorensen is going to be reading this. Oh, boy. It's a, I hope, an enlightened discovery and walk in our biggest town forest. But it's also, the Slack board have decided that this is sort of the beginning of a period of public discussion about what we hope to do with the town forest. I guess it's OK for me to say that they kind of got kicked off, because I've had this proposal that I've been planning to present for several years. To less? To the, no, to the Conservation Commission. Just to begin the discussion about what are we going to do with the town forest in the future. And my proposal is that we dedicate the Bliss Pondtown Forest to be an old growth regeneration forest. And so we agreed, and it has to be this way, of course, that this is something that the town as a community has to decide. It's not for the Conservation Commission to decide. And so this is just the first of what I think will be a series of events and activities to try to, first of all, get people to actually find out about this pondtown forest. And I'm just, I live next to it, so I'm in there almost every day of the year. But I'm astonished that how many people don't know anything about it, don't know where it is, never been in it. And so I hope that some folks will come to this and never been there before. And if we can afterwards, we probably have a little talk. People are interested in the whole West Church at the end of the thing, maybe talk a little bit more about the things that Eric raises. But if you don't know Eric Sorenson, he is Mr. Forest in Vermont. He's a state employee who is the natural communities ecologist for the state. And he literally wrote the book. And there's something called Vermont Conservation Design, which is a blueprint for how at least the scientists in the state are proposing we go forward to deal with climate change and the other challenges that affect our forests. And there's a modest little tie in with the police pondtown forest in that initiative, I think. But anyway, I encourage you all to come. I don't want to talk about it or not up to you, but it's a wonderful little place. And I hope if you don't know it, you can come and discover it. Thank you. Thanks, sir. Anybody else have anything that's on the agenda? No, I was kidding. I was going to say I'm here for a big issue. That's because I'm Peter's driver. Oh, OK. Well, go ahead. See, we've got two of you for the price of one. You're not being drive. Oh, sorry. All right. Any changes or additions to the agenda? All right. So I guess maybe Alfred will be here at some point because we have this ROW application to do. But why don't we get started with the Route 14 commuter bus project? And maybe we do know all of us. Do you want us to introduce ourselves? Denise Wheeler. Claire Fimmons. Kella Selector. Rose Pell Chuck. Katie Lane Curran, civil servant secretary. Sharon Wynne Fanon, select board. John Brayback, select board. And do you know what you want to go around the room? They already know who there is. Nice to introduce ourselves, Andy, Andrew, and CBRDC. Nick D'Agostino from the Bureau of Committee Transportation. Bonnie Mungers, Central Vermont Regional Planning. Karen McNeil, I have the alternate for the Transportation Advisory Council Committee. Committee. Committee. Committee. Chair Anderson, chair of planning. I'm Barry Bernstein from East Calis. Peter John came from East Calis and a transit user. Good, great. How do you want to get started, Bonnie? I'm going to hand it right over to Nick. Let him talk to you about the service. I'm along for the ride. I have a question. Did you guys ride together? No. We came from opposite directions. FOMA, there were a bus. For the figurative ride. I guess we have one. All right. So thank you. I'm from Bureau of Committee Transportation, the executive director. Probably is not familiar to you, RCT, because RCT is a public transit provider for the Northeast Kingdom. So Caledonia, or these Essex counties, but also the demand response of Medicaid non-emergency medical transportation for the Loyal County as well. So when E-Trans relocated its staff from National Life Building to the downtown Barry a few months ago, there was suddenly a desire to have transportation to downtown Barry. So the idea was that we were going to share a route along from Hardwick to Barry and share that with pre-bound transit as your provider. We do that with the US2 leader, which goes from St. John's Barry to Montpelier. So we passed it around. Is that the red buses? So we're the red buses. For the time being, we're changing our colors. Oh, I like the red bus. I'm sorry. It's OK. We're still changing. Oh. So the idea was that we were going to share this route as well. It has evolved so that just RCT would handle this transportation route. And also it has expanded from Hardwick into Morrisville. And the reason is because we have buses stationed in Morrisville because we do demand response and non-emergency medical transportation out of the Morrisville office. So instead of having a bus emptied from Morrisville to Hardwick and then opening the doors to the public, the idea is now to open the doors to Morrisville. So we'll go along Route 15 to Hardwick through Wolcott. And then pick up people in Hardwick with Woodbury, Calis. We are going to meet. You're not stopping at Wolcott? We are going to stop at Wolcott. The idea is that we are going to meet and have a transfer point at the Washington Electric Co-op in East Montpelier. So that we're going to meet the US2 meter. So if you're in Calis and you want to get to Montpelier, you'll transfer to our bus in East Montpelier and you'll be able to go to Montpelier. So we'll stop some Montpelier. So where will you stop in Calis? Good question. And if you have a suggestion, please let me know. Because right now it looks like there's not really any place where you can break down the parking. So we're thinking the East Calis store is just a pole where you pick up spots. But if you have anywhere else, there's no place for people to park there. Right. And it doesn't necessarily have to be. We will pick up at parking rides and places that have parking available. If there's no parking available, we still want to be able to give people the opportunity to get on the bus or at least flag down the bus. I mean, East Calis store would be great. But as I said, there's really no place to park. You have to pull over to the other side of the road where that little park is. There's the East Calis post office. Again, that's not really a place for public parking. It's for the post office. There's a big lot there, the busking. Turn around. Yeah, but not if people are parking. Right. If people are parking, that's right. And there's not really daytime, long term parking there that I'm aware of. Have you thought about asking a landowner on Route 14 to see if they would have a place where somebody could set up a parking spot? So that would be, that's part of the reason I'm here is to find out from you folks as to where you think a good place to park would be. Because we're out of our territory right now. All we're very excited for this. We don't have the geographical knowledge because we don't service this area all the time. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. Sharon wanted to speak with NG and then Karen. The East Calis rec field, I think when this idea first came up, we kicked him. And I don't know if you guys have, did that get rolled out for some? The East Calis rec field folks are not interested in having a parking ride thing there. That I'm aware of. But there is a plot across from that rec field that. Is that the Donnell? It's all about Donnells, as I understand it. And there's a, I don't know how, I mean, we had thought one time of having a parking right there. We actually drew it out. Right. And it's got enough for four or five cars. It's just a passenger. Right. Right now. Alfie, you know, moves it down. Other than that, I mean, it might be amenable. Donnell might be willing to take that quarter, half an acre and contribute it to parking. Or at least let us use it if he doesn't want to donate it. We were applying for the municipal small road connections or whatever. It was a small grant. So for that, we wrote up a description of what that parking would be and even did a design. What's the group that I went to a couple of the meetings that's been wanting to get some kind of busing and car share? What's the name of that? Well, that's, I mean, it was the energy group that was the transportation energy group that became, you know, for Montevay and. What about that's what I'm thinking of? Calis-B-T. Calis-B-T is. So this is, I mean, this is kind of keeping in line with what we've talked about in town over the years, but never thought it would come to be. But it sounds like if the state employees want it, then that can happen. Yeah, go ahead, Carol. The RAC Association owns the parking lot where the post offices. Right, yeah, because they own that building. And so we had that bandied about the idea of even getting their cooperation to put up temporary parking, you know, just voluntarily not anything formal that to allow two car spaces to be reserved for people that wanted to use it. I mean, I'm sure there are liability issues, but I think that maybe a request from the select board to the RAC Association to consider these things would have a lot more weight than some people, which they think are, you know, Maple Corner people making that request. I won't say anything. Yeah, I mean, we could do that if we have some kind of a definite. What the plan is, the time schedule, we could contact the RAC center board. I like that idea. That's, it's not a feel. It's a huge parking lot. It's got everything we need. As long as we can make sure it's not overnight parking. Right. Right, yeah. And we can, because it's not an official parking lot, so if it is a state-owned parking lot, you can impose those types of restrictions, but this would not be a state-owned parking lot, so you can impose whatever restrictions there are. In fact, we have just Park and Ride in St. Johnsbury is under construction now, and so we negotiate with the town to provide a temporary lot. The restrictions are Monday through Friday, 6 to 8.30, no overnight parking, no weekend parking. There's another couple of shares over here. I'll give you the link. So if there was another space, I went 14, it was property-owned by a private citizen. Do you pay rent for the use of that property? We don't pay rent to anyone now, but I mean, it's not out of question. That's what it's gonna take in order to get parking. Folks are going to use it. Yeah, I mean, I have a thought, but I don't know if it's a conflict of interest or, but I guess I can bring it up. My son lives right on Route 14, and he has a lot of land there, and it's folks know where Dave Jeffery lives. It's right across the street from Dave Jeffery, and it's really close to the road. I don't know if he would be interested in letting folks park there and what that might entail, but if this other doesn't work out, then we could approach him. Sure. Yeah, this is something, having been involved in transportation for a long time, this is something that's been talked about for so long, that I would really be this opportunity for the town not to find a way to find parking if you guys are gonna do it. Yeah. It's really, it's one of the many missing links in public transportation. Yeah, for sure. So we're, it's definitely all pre-arguing. It's just a matter of where do you want us to stop. You know, and if you think about like college green in affiliate or there's nowhere to park, but we still have a bus out there. Yeah, obviously it's a little different because there's sidewalks, you've got, we're in the sort of the city, you don't necessarily park the car right in the corner of college green to be able to get on the bus. You can just walk there. So, I mean, that's not the most ideal situation here. We were able to pull over at the store wherever it would be. Obviously the ideal situation would be you could park your car, leave it, get on the bus, come back, get back to the bus. And this says it's gonna start on October 7th. It is scheduled to start on October 7th. So we could still, you know, this is gonna be heaven of all things. Oh, man. We could just start with someplace where like I said, it don't need to be able to park, but we could pretend it's not gonna be, we're not gonna go so far off of the route that it's gonna create, we're gonna recap it on the schedule and we have it together. So anywhere in town is gonna be okay as long as it's not too far off. I think John wanted it. So, north on route 14, north of East Kyle's Village, takes you to South Woodbury. If you went past the camps, there's the South Woodbury church there. And there's already a kind of a de facto community parking a lot happening there. And the whole north side of town kind of flows that way. I know when I go on route 14. That's a good idea. And then it wouldn't be too far out of the way. That's the town office, right? Yeah. So they're protecting for out there. Okay. So you got that. And there's also then coming back south, there's a place WCI construction. Oh, right, right. And then there's a ball field there. Yeah. Historical radio station thing? No. It's really. It's a construction site, yeah. Oh, okay. But it's kind of a, there's a lot of like land that's just not being utilized. And I would expect that there's something that could be worked out there as well. Yeah, that's a good idea. That's right on the town line. So the Woodbury town office lot, are they, is that something you're gonna be able to use? It sounded like the answer. Yeah. Yeah. In fact, they're the end, like you said, they're kind of right right now. Pam and Karen. Yeah, I just, in terms of the post office lot, I just want to remind us left for it, that that is one of the stormwater sites that was chosen as one of the top five priority sites. And Toby is interested in furthering that to final design. And we'll of course continue about that idea. So we have agreement with the rec center. So just rec association, excuse me. So just keep that in mind. If that becomes a site, there may be some construction, interruption, when and if that goes to implementation. So just something to think about. Good. What's going on in these gals? Karen. I just want to bring up the safety concerns at that area by the East Calis store. Right. Because these huge granite trucks go faster than the speed limit. And they, they're carrying the granite, so they can't stop. It's not just the MBI. The MBI strikes the MBO. So that's been a concern expressed by the people that live in East Calis. And I think that if the stop was by the East Calis store, and maybe even if it was somewhere else right in the village, the only real place that people can park, it's not private parking, unless they got special permission from the rec association one-on-one permission, would be at Independence Park. I think that's what it's called. The little park across. They'd pull over on route 14 there. Which could be okay. Probably the plow trucks won't be happy with that. Store might not be happy either, because their customers use that. Yeah. And then, so then the concern is also where the stop is going north. So having a stop right in front of East Calis store going north would be really dangerous, probably because of that traffic. And ideally, our buses are all equipped with wheelchair limits. So ideally, we would be able to pull off far enough to be able to utilize those limits and not to get off into a snow bank or have to cross the road. Right. That would be my concern there, yeah. So the, again, the rec center lot that, and so they've seen some renovation, we expect, that you'd actually have to, if the bus were coming southbound, they'd have to make a right and go off and over the bridge, and off route 14, very short distance, but they'd be off the busy highway, and it's much safer, and then people would cross route 14, is that's like deadly there. Yeah, it is. There's a line, bend coming north, it says 35 people, truck right on through, scary. Yeah. Yes, or any, any, any information that I think is much appreciated. Yeah, obviously what I could say for the bus, the driver, passengers, we have to be on and off. Yeah. And we know that it's community's possibility, so it's hard to figure out what's going on. You were next, and then Jim. Peter. Peter. The other thing, and I realize this is evolving, but once some of these places are established, personally, and definitely a vested interest, would be to make sure you have a bike right there, because I would be coming with my bike, and either walking it there and leaving it, or depending on why I'm on my own bus, yeah. Good point. The buses have bike racks on them, too, right? The buses do have bike racks, yeah. But it's definitely, as Barry said, it's definitely something that's been needed for ages, and I'm definitely right. Yeah, great. See, I already got one customer, right? Barry? No, Jan. It's kind of too prompt. Have you done a study as to north and south of Calis? I mean, like, how many riders there might be? So, out of curiosity? So, this isn't really a normal way to go about creating a route. Or just to create a route. We were kind of handed this, and told, here's your route. So, we expanded it into, more from Morrisville to Hardwick, but really, it was kind of like a new chance to say, we're going to create the, we want to create Hardwick today. There's another site, like, and I know it's not ideal, but there's a little area off the cataract plan on Lightning Bridge. That's what I was just going to say. Right there on the corner of Pekin? On the corner, not Pekin, but it's Lightning Bridge. When you turn right to the school, Max Gray Lighting, and there's this little area there. Next to the log. I think that's cataracts. Next to the log cabin. Yeah. And that might be a place, because a lot of people park there anyway. That's right. Yeah, it's not a space that's, like, buildable or anything. No. And I know that I've seen people park there, and I've also seen campers there once in a while. You know, I mean, they're just there for the weekend, but there's people there that do use it for parking. Yeah. Is that a land or a site? I know. It's a private place. But you could approach the landowners. There's also, there used to be a house there, and I think it burned. It's on the corner of Pekin and Route 14. There's a clean piece of land there. I think it's full of Japanese mountain weed or something. Yeah. I'm trying. It's pretty crap. It's actually good land. It's just full of mess. Sand. But yeah. Sandy. Great for parking lot. But that's, I don't know who owns that. The little one. Oh, that's a nice name. We knew who owned it. There's a woman in the Waterbury area once in a while. Yeah. Her son. Bill? Bill. Bill. Sounds like. He owned it about time for a while. Oh, really? He's an actor. Not Bill Blanchley. Yeah. Oh. Give us a few minutes. We'll come up with a little bit. I don't know. I could go on the Lister file. I mean, I'm like. Yeah. It'll come to me sometime, and then I'll let you know. And we'll reconvene at that point. So what else do you want to, what else do you want to hear from us tonight? Or do you need? Or would you like to? So I can just finish. So the, the bus will travel here to the Spunk Hillier, where we'll be with the current U.S. two commuter, which comes from St. John's. In that parking right there. At that, yeah. The Washington Electric, a lot of parking right. So if you are, you want to go to the Spunk Hillier, you can transfer to that bus. Or if you want to go to the Spunk Hillier, or if you want to continue on the downtown area, that's where they have the bus. RCT's buses are all fare-proof. So we need for you to ride from here to Morrisville, if you want, or we're going to the Spunk Hillier. Wow. With your bicycle, and then you can get on the flight. And so our U.S. two, because this is meant to connect at East Spunk Hillier with the U.S. two commuter, our U.S. two commuter is set up so that it will meet the GMT link to Waterbury and Burlington. So you can actually get from here to Burlington now, fare-proof, the U.S. two commuter. But you have to pay a fare for GMT? For GMT, yes. How come? So the difference is, the transit providers get to choose. There's a couple different thoughts. Our thought is that a fare is a obstacle to someone getting on the bus. So you're going to get more customized that way, and more people on the bus. And RCT is a lot more rural and has a lot fewer customers or passengers than GMT. So if you think about how many people are riding with us in Burlington, compared to people riding with us in St. John'sbury, whereas they may be looking at hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars a year in fare, we're looking at like 40 bucks a day. And we're paying somebody eight hours to collect that money, count the money, we're putting processes in place to make sure that the money that's being stolen, remember to deposit the money. And also, fares do not count towards the local match that's required to match the federal grants. And that's what I was going to ask. So other forms of money do count towards that local match, but not fare. So the way that it almost looks on paper is that fare actually doesn't reduce the match, it reduces the grant at least on paper. So it's just not worth it to us to do that. GMT, they look at it differently, they can make a lot more money on the bearer, so it's a good thing to try to fare. So my next question was going to be, according to this notice, RZT doesn't ask for financial assistance from the town. So we do ask for every town that we serve, like I said, mostly the Northeast Kingdom in the wild. We do either go through the appropriation process or tell meeting petitions to ask for some sort of a donation. The reason that we do that is because we do have a significant amount of money to donate or to match for us. One of our new buses that is going to be dedicated towards this route when it arrives in December or January, we're going to have to pay 10% of $120,000 price tag on the bus. Once the current grant cycle runs out, this is 100% funded as far as operations goes for three years from each chance, but once that three years is up, assuming it's successful and he transforms to continue this service, he will transfer into a different funding source. And at that time, all of the fuel, all of the driver's wages and benefits are going to be 50% of RZT. All the administration that goes into paying my salary, keeping the lights on, that's going to have 10% of RZT. So this is a significant amount of money. So we do what we can by asking for donations, by selling advertising on the buses, by providing other types of services that we can charge a little more money for using our volunteer services, but anything really would help. Because we have an appropriation list in town that we do every year at town meeting for various different sources. Are you looking to be on like that kind of listen? What are we talking about for a donation? Hope you want to write a check right now, I'll take it. Sorry, I don't have access to that. You know, we were thinking if you'd be grateful for anything from like 500 to 1,000 dollars, would you want to see it? Okay, I wasn't sure. We would gladly participate in any kind of appropriation procedure that you have in place. Right, well we do have a procedure for new people, new people that want to get on this list. There's a form on our website to fill out to ask for an appropriation. And we're going to soon be into town meeting cycle. So if you want to give that a look ahead of time, I don't know what the deadline for submitting that is. It probably says on the website. Is it an application process? Just start for it. No, you just go out. No, no, no, just an application. One, two, three. Yeah, it's easy. We try to keep it as simple as possible. And if you do it once and voters approve it, we don't make you do it again every year like some towns do. Unless you want to change the amount or it gets shot down. Okay. Nick, know that when you do that, you're starting, you're applying now or when you get around to the form, it goes to the voters in March, but it's for the next fiscal year. So. Right, so 2020. Yes, so we're talking about. 2020. A July. July versus 2020. 2020. Right. Right, okay. Yeah, you want to ask before March because we. We start putting the town report and stuff together. We'll be working on it over the next few months. Karen. How would the success be calibrated? So E-trans does have markers of success or non-success. So I will need to find out from E-trans as to what category of service this is going to count as. So it goes anywhere from urban to rural commuter to circulator. There's a couple of different categories it's made fit into and that makes a difference as to what the success bars are. But basically it's how many people are you getting on the bus per hour and how many miles are you driving and there's a calculation and then it's benchmark across the state and that's based upon other rural states in the country. Right, I mean it's going to take a while to get the word out. I mean the people, the red buses are quite catching because they really stand out. When people see them stopping, they're like, whoa, what's that? So the first year, we're not expecting the buses to be packed the first year. It's not the word out like you said, it's calibrating everything, making sure the schedule's working. So year two, three, we should continue to see it. Do you have suggestions for ways to get the word out? What works in California? Front porch forum. Posting something on the town website, having something available like a one page flyer to hand out at town meeting. Word of mouth is one of the best, we can send it to various Google groups in town. If you have somebody that can come on town meetings, I don't know, I don't know if that really helps. Yeah, especially if it's in the ad, you know, we can post flyers around different places in town, the post office, the stores, town office, there. Yeah, I just want to mention since I picked up a number of hitchhikers in the last few decades, there are a lot of people who may use a service who don't have a car. So, you know, why are you looking for where parking is and stuff, you have to look at convenience for people who really do need this service in the end. Unfortunately, I know your hours are probably kind of, you're talking about just two trips. Yeah, it's starting as a commuter room to start something. Yeah, but the people who take it are successful, we can add more. Lower income jobs that have to get in. Yeah, yeah. So I think it's important. So you'd be coming through around 7.15 or something like that. That's what my question was. Yeah, he's got a schedule at the time, but you have to meet at the back lock in the morning at 7.05, so it's actually based upon, surprisingly, the state schedule. So everything is, yeah, so everything's really kind of based on us getting that transfer spot to be able to see it. And that whole thing, that whole schedule, US2 commuter, is based on the typical state-of-the-art schedule. But if the, whatever, but if you find that there's more need than you would add at times. Yeah, then you can be able to be trans to add more runs. Yeah, yeah, we just have to prove that there's it's viable, and that there's a demand, and then we can ask for more. And you don't have like a thing set up for donations for people that could afford to, that can't afford to ride the bus. Hey, you know, fans, that donation, they can't ride the bus. Yeah, you don't do that. We don't have fare boxes on the bus, but. It's just a thought. So I've been with RCT for nine months, and a lot of things are changing, and there's more of a richer change. Anybody else have any other questions, Bonnie? Anything else? I pointed out all the things we talked about, metrics. What does the bus look like? We can usually ask you that question. So this bus is gonna look more, yeah, it's gonna be the bus that's going to be servicing this will be more of a Cotterway type, so it'll be like a pickup truck or a van front ends, with the bus pushing back. It's not gonna look like a heavy duty city type, CCTA, Burlington bus. Actually, our US2 commander is that type of bus. This is gonna be more of like the buses that people would see in Barrett and Mopil here. It's gonna have a little trouble to get them off. So the new bus that we'll be using will have 22 to 24 passengers. Wow, this has to be a chair. That's it. That's it. There are no wheelchair spots, and usually the wheelchair spots take up four. And what color is it gonna be? It'll be white with blue and green. Oh, come on, not red. So that'll start with red and then she... We'll start with red, get you used to that, and then we'll wean you off the red. I'll go with orange. I'll bring you in and say the 20s. No, I'm not orange. You'll like the new look. Okay. Any other questions? I mean, this is a great service. We've been trying to figure out how to make this happen for years through different various groups and looking at things. And until the state decided, this is good. Very good. Thank you very much. Thank you for coming. And if there's something you need us to do, Bonnie knows how to get a hold of me. Great, thank you. Yeah, I appreciate it. Okay. Thank you. Thanks, Bonnie. Thank you. You're not gonna stay for the other presentation? We're off to the small field here. We're doing the, right, we're off to the small field. Thank you. Thank you. And Dan, I just wanted to tell you something funny. When I grew up in Connecticut, the superintendent's name was Nick Teodosino, and he was a wonderful name. Nick Teodosino. Yeah, he was a wonderful name. Did you know Nick Teodosino? I grew up with him. He was awesome. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, I just love your name, and it's a pleasure to meet you. Thank you so much. Thank you. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yep. Thank you for coming. Hi, everybody. We didn't do the... Did it? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Nick Teodosino, he's a superintendent. How are you? Yeah, come on, you can sit with us. Is it better? Huh? It's better. It makes it clear that you are a superintendent. Right? I call her some of the children. You're the main attraction. How are the kids? Good. And yours? What year is Jack in? He's first year. Oh, where is he? All right. We're going to do road erosion. Road erosion. Everybody want to come up closer to the table? Yeah, I just felt too far away there, but... Oh, thank you. I'll just take one and pass it around. It's good. I printed one, but it's not in color. I didn't print because there's so much color, but it's not worth it. You've got one. I can't print in color. I didn't email you. Did you get the most recent one? Anybody else got any? I didn't. Oh, I think Katie should have one. Do you want? Do you want? Chef, can you share? Come on up. She'll need to reference it for the room. Dan is not coming tonight, so I think there is a... There's a little miscommunication there. I'm handling this because he had another meeting in Wadesfield, and he apologized because he was over here. But since I'm so close, we figured I would go over this with you. I got it. I got it. I got it. I got it. I got it. I'm curious to get in there. So, just... I'll wait till John's cell. Stephanie? Oh, okay. I was just looking. I'll put it on here. I'm going to give you one. All right, you ready to get started? I'm ready. I'm ready. Good. So, Central Vermont Regional Planning Commission and Tobi's Health, Tobi Talbot, in 2017 did a road erosion inventory of the town, and this is something that came down from the state so that the town could fulfill this new municipal roads general permit. The permit came out in 2018, I believe, and all towns in the state are on a schedule to follow this permit and bring roads that are connected to water sources, which we term the hydrologically connected roads within a town, bring those up to a certain standard, and those standards will help prevent erosion from the dirt roads and from outfalls of paved roads, prevent the erosion to prevent both sediment and phosphorus entering our surface waters and eventually into Lake Champlain. So, this all fits under that big Lake Champlain cleanup umbrella for phosphorus, and the permit comes from the state, but we at CVRPC are assisting all the towns in our region to do these inventories and to come up with these reports, which is essentially what's going to be the town's capital plan over a period of years, and I'll go over the schedule with everybody to bring them up to standards. So, if we just want to open, I gave you a little bit of the background already. Does anyone need more of a definition of what hydrologically connected actually means, or is that pretty clear? Got it. Okay, so it's pretty much, it can even be a road, so let me just go over what categories falls under that. So, if it's a road that's within a certain foot distance from a stream, so it doesn't even have to cross the stream, it can even be just within the river corridor, it's considered hydrologically connected. If it has a drainage culvert that crosses it, where the drainage from that culvert ends up at a stream, it's hydrologically connected. If there's a stream that actually crosses a road, that road is hydrologically connected, of course, and then segments that are about 100 meters long that are uphill of that particular crossing are also considered connected. So, it's not just the water body, right? Yeah, or water body. Yeah, so it's not just streams, it's also wetlands and ponds and lakes. So, like Gar Road all along, number 10 pond is considered hydrologically connected. Yeah, so, you know, the Worcester Road is considered hydrologically connected because of other ponds. So, there's more than just crossing a stream that makes it hydrologically connected. So, just to clarify that. So, I already gave you the background a little bit. So, if you turn to page 4, I'd like to just go down to the schedule that the permit from the state actually dictates. So, if you look that midway down the page, there's a bulleted number of five bulleted items there. By July 2018, which has already passed, of course, that municipalities apply for the MRGP coverage and pay the fees. Calis has done that so they're in compliance, no problem there. And then by fall of 2020, all towns are required to submit a Road Stormwater Management Plan. And that's essentially this report plus this table that Toby has that's right on the portal at DEC, the Department of Environmental Conservation has a portal. All the data from the inventory gets uploaded and you can see right on that portal what's high priority, what's very high priority, what's moderate, what's low priority. And I'll go over that. I added a table. Is there a link in here somewhere? Toby has it. Toby goes on it regularly, but I can email that to you. You got it at the shop. So, the next thing is by January 2020, just this January, the implementation plan is expected to begin. Now, Toby and Alfie are way ahead of that deadline because they've already fixed some of the hydrologically connected roads in town. So, three comes before two? No, because two is by the fall. By the fall of 2020. You do the inventory and you have a plan to fix. By January 2020. The 2021. No, that's 2020. So, the plan is done. If you look at the dates, January goes before fall. Oh, duh, that should be, well, I'll check with Dan on that. You're right. So, we have the right dates. Thank you. January 2020. It might be January 2021. Didn't we check this last time? Well, I have written down from November 4th, January 2020, starting with the implementation of standards from the meeting we had for the draft. All right. I'll check with you. Thank you. Good catch. But in any case, you don't have to be done with all your very high priority segments until the end of 2025. So, we have pretty much six years to implement all the very high priority. And I'll go over which ones those are. Okay? So, these guys are doing good so far. And then 2037, that's the deadline, the end of that year, that all of them have to meet the standards. We're going to have the same standards for the next 20. Well, you all probably won't be on the slide for that. I'm going to be retired, too, I hope. But in any case, will the standards change maybe? I hope not. But, you know, if things aren't working for certain types of segments, you know, who knows what the state's going to promise that things won't change. But you can flip over the next page and throughout the inventory, what we did and what Toby did went out on every road that's hydrologically connected in town and using an app that's been, that actually, the app that we developed is the one we used for Calis. That was based on what the state wanted to see. The state has their own app now that we're using for the towns because, of course, they released us and then, you know, they were like GIS people figure out how to collect the data. So, we did that. So, we had our own app for the Calis inventory. And basically, collecting all the information, then we fed all that information up to the Department of Environmental Conservation Portal, which then determined whether a particular segment fully meets the standards, partially meets the standards, or does not meet the standards. So, those are the three categories. And fully meets means, you know, everything that you're looking at on a particular road segment, which for a gravel road, is is there birming on the side? You know, sometimes when you drive down a gravel road, there's like a nice hump on the side from the grading or from plowing or whatever. Well, when there's a big berm left over, what can happen is that can cause a lot of erosion within the travel lane. So, what the state's asked is to please, you know, get rid of that berm so we don't have erosion within the travel lane. Is the road crowned properly so that it's not super flat and there's erosion within the travel lane because it's not shedding off the road very well. So, that's another thing that doesn't meet, doesn't not meet, that gets looked at. For the culverts, are they the right size or are they too small? And because they're too small, they're causing a lot of erosion at the outlet. Or is there no stabilization on the culvert, like on the header? And when it rains, it just erodes the heck out of the header and ends up in the receiving water. What about elevated health falls for the culverts? Is that an emotional concern to you? Yeah, so if there's no, like, splash guard on Singleton Road? To clarify that those culverts, if it's a perennial stream and Singleton Road, if you're thinking about the one, yeah. So the town's not necessarily responsible for the treatment on those perennial streams unless it's a culvert that they regularly do. Because a lot of them are considered state responsibility. The state will replace the culverts. Yeah, so this is all, like, for non-perennial culverts, really. What's the problem? We want to hear more about that. Yeah, some of them. And Alphie, you'll know which ones. I mean, I think in our town, there's really not many. I can't think of any that the state's really in charge of. What is the perennial culvert? You just contradicted yourself. Yeah, you both did. What's the perennial culvert? A perennial culvert is one that flows all year long, basically. That's what the permit dictates is just, yes. So does that mean the state is in charge of perennials? They're not asking for the treatment to happen, that the standards have to follow on a perennial culvert. They're not asking for that. That's best at risk. I know. They may have a role for us, it doesn't apply to them. So let me just go back into where. So there's a lot of structures in the state that cross really, really large streams, like the Lamoille, the Winooski, that really the state is more in charge of those than downtown Montpelier or more up in Lamoille County. They actually are on their, they're the ones that fix it. But perennial culverts on class three roads, the state is not. You're talking about highways, state corridors. So we have more than state corridors. But I have to clarify this with Jim Ryan, because he does, because Jim Ryan says that sometimes that, you know, this only is for non, so when we're out in the field, he's only asking us to look at the non perennial for the towns to meet those requirements and the standards on the non perennial, the roads that cross the non perennial streams, which are your drainage culverts, and they're not necessarily your stream culverts. So your stream culverts and your stream bridges, you don't have to meet the standards necessarily for the outfall erosion or the headers or things like that, because those standards, I think, have to be met anyway. Through another program. Yeah, exactly, exactly. So those have to do with the road and bridge standards. You know what I mean? So that's why it's not really part of the municipal general roads permit for erosion. So if I can... But, okay, wait. That culvert is talking about that, if he falls. It's a trick. It's this much going through there right now. It's perennial. It never stops falling, but we're kind of going to travel tomorrow. So a lot of times... I doubt that's a road and bridge standard culvert. Yeah, I doubt it. So when I'm in the field, when we're out in the field, we're kind of like, yeah, it might be perennial, but if it's small enough for me, if it's a 10 foot wide drainage, it may not dry up at all. So it may not technically be non-perennial, but we're still collecting the data and making sure that that information is collected and that that segment meets the standards because the state has not... And it's also very difficult for... Because we send interns a lot out to collect this data and so do other RPCs, and they're not as much trained in the hydrology that they really know what a non-perennial versus a non-perennial stream is. They're pretty clueless on that. So if it's a big boring bridge, so if it's peak and brook, if it's peak and brook, if it's dooger brook, if it's the Kingsbury, they're meeting the road and bridge standards and don't worry about the permit for that. So that's the point of that. Does that make sense? But all the little tributaries and all the little temporary drainages and when there's a rainstorm, I'm thinking there's one on dooger brook that just comes off the steep hill and there's a little waterfall there and it spits right into dooger brook. And that probably flows 80% of the year. So when somebody's out there, they'll probably think it's a perennial stream, but it's really small. And that's something... Yeah, that's what I would include. I wouldn't include the bridge that's right at the corner of Apple Hill and dooger brook. I wouldn't include that one. I wouldn't include the big structure on 14. Of course, that's a state structure. But I wouldn't include the one that goes over peak in at Singleton. What is included in the permit is conveyances around those structures. So, for instance, a conveyance, and this was something that was asked that I identify about conveyances when we met about the draft. I have that diagram up there. A conveyance zone is pretty much the end of the drainage ditch or turnout where it's going to enter into kind of that area that could drain into the stream. So, and a lot of times you see this where these guys did a great job at the bottom of Apple Hill where the bottom of the drainage ditch comes out and then they turned it out and then created kind of like a nice stone pool for the sediment and the water to settle before it dumps into the river. And that's what the state wants to see. They want to see some treatment at the end of the ditch or at a turnout. And there's certainly, you know, and however steep that turnout is or that end of ditch conveyance zone is, there's certain standards. So if it's really steep, they want a stone. If it's kind of in between, they want a grass or other vegetation. Didn't we sound famous on that one? Yeah, you did. But anyway. So that's where the base of Georgia or there's that culvert we're doing there, right? The bridge or culvert, whatever we put in there. But there's the conveyance that goes directly and puts directly into the stream now. So we'd have to fix that. Right, which would be the burn rule off of Georgia. Well, no, the end of the ditch goes right into the stream right now. Right, so you do the same treatment. Yeah. And they have like a nice little stone turnout. You know, in these guys know what to do. A lot of it, you know, they'll do a turnout a lot on the roads as they're, as, you know, they're raiding. You'll see kind of like a cut into the road. If that cut is really steep and it's near stream, it needs to be a certain standard. So that does their road on this list. Yeah, we'll get there. Yeah, we'll get there. So just for convenience and for you guys to see, you know, out of these three categories does not need fully meets and partially meets. I just did some charts and graphs. This first one is, you know, the number of road miles for each of those categories within town so that you can see of all of those segments and the segment is 100 meters long. I forgot to mention that earlier, which is about 300 feet. So out of all the segments that were looked at, you've only got about seven and a half road miles that don't meet. So, of course, you have seven and a half miles that don't meet. Yep. If you look, turn it just to page seven, that equals 125 segments. Good thing, good luck with San Hill Road, by the way. Yeah. Good luck with that. We have to buy land to fix that problem. And then of those that don't meet, so those 125 segments, out of those, you just broke it down into four main issues that are affecting those segments that don't fully meet. So the biggest thing is the burn on the side of the road. So that's a real maintenance thing. You guys will just know to do that, and they've been doing a great job ever since we started this inventory, just getting rid of that, after they grade, or during the grading, you just get rid of that little burn that's on the edge for these particular segments. Crowning, too, is another issue. Road drainage is actually the lowest one. Only 10 segments did not meet because of the road drainage. And that's just really talking about, does it have the proper treatment within the ditches, or can it shed out to a vegetated area before it gets to a stream. And then the other category is the conveyances that... I just mentioned what that says. Yeah, conveyance or turnouts, yeah. So that's the other category that another issue. So what the state does is it kind of helps... When it gets all this data up into this portal, it helps prioritize everything. And it's usually if a couple of things do not meet, that becomes high priority. But the biggest thing is really those roads that have a really steep slope. So very high priority indicates an overall score does not meet with a slope of 10% or greater. So those are really the segments that they're requiring the towns to address first. Like I mentioned in the schedule, by 2025, we want to get... They want to get all of those segments taken care of that are very high priority. So to help the town, what I did, can you go to that page 8? I just did this the other day because I thought this would help you guys to just see which roads they were because in the portal, it's all in these segment IDs and you have a road name, but this is going to kind of help you guys just know how many very high priority segments you have on a particular road. And then I just left the year blank and you guys can just fill that in yourselves to help you plan when you're going to get it done. Yeah, this is how we fill this chart. A lot of them are already done. Yeah, so you can just write done in that. That's right. That would be good to do. 2017 or two years later. You've already done some. Yeah, it would be good to know that until we can update this chart. I'm sure you say earlier when you were talking about the berms that at some level it's ongoing maintenance. Yeah, that is. You could have addressed it at one point. Is it only berms that tends to be that way? And crowning. You've got to kind of just stay on top of it. Yeah, just stay on top of it. That's really an ongoing maintenance. So that year, does that mean year completed or year to do it, perform the task? What are we looking for there in that box? I think the year that these guys intend to complete it. Might want to add another box here, year completed because they're ahead. No, so this is for you guys. This is for you to just, if you want to put, this is not what gets reported to the state. Toby has his own table that he has to fill out and upload. This is going to be just more for an easier way for the town to just know what's been done and what needs to be done. So, because certain segments have to be done, because the very high priority ones have to be done by 2025. So this was a way of me to show, you know, which ones are very high priority. For instance, Dooger Brook has a total of 22. Yeah. So that's high. That's because Pam lives on that. That's because I live on it. But look, Dooger Brook does not have any very high segments. Right, which is interesting. So that means that these guys can get to Dooger Brook when they're done with their very high priority ones. So the very high ones, there's, for instance, preference there. It says, can we, like Long Meadow Road, Long Meadow Hill Road has a three. So let me have a one, some of them have a two. That's how many segments. That's how many segments. Yeah, very high priority. Yeah. So Alfred of the very highs. Long Meadow is done. Alfred. Long Meadow Road is done. When did that get done? You know what's your summer? Summer, maybe last summer. You can just write. Yeah. Well, yeah. This is for you. I think it's not worth, I think, you know, making Alfie pull things out of his mind, because he said online money. He said, well, at least two, maybe three, we don't need to, we shouldn't spend our time, but it would be good. Well, this is just a reference for us. Right. This is just a reference for you guys. So you can go through at some point and fill it in. Let us know. Yeah. Yeah. Which we do. I mean, Toby and I, we put that in this portal. Right. When we do this work, it's put in there and updated. Well, we don't see that. Right. We're going to get on to the portal and then you can see it. You can see what we, the changes that we made. We didn't know about it. Do we need a password to get into the portal? What portal? The state DEC. DEC. How about I email you the link to the portal? Right. That would be helpful. Thanks, Pam. What's the, keep somebody from going in there and changing the data, the data inputted by everybody DEC staff. How does that work? The data is uploaded, that wrote erosion inventory data is uploaded by us. Okay. So. It shows up on the website. Yeah. There's no password. So anyone could just upload it. No. I email, I email a table. It's like an Excel table to, to Tim Pricer. Okay. That's what we did here. And he's the, he's the database guy at the state. Got it. The way they have it now is much different. When you do an inventory with their new app, you, you need a password to be able to use that app. But once you put it up there, it's automated. It's automated when you, when you're in the field, or you come back from the field and you like send it there. And it's automated that way. But you need a password to be able to do it. But. The town could do the inventory themselves. And then use it. GAR is on your list. It's a hydrologically connected one, but it didn't come up with any. Yeah. It's a class. It was no issues. It was fully made. No. She said it's hydrologically connected. It fully meets. That's why it's not. Oh, it fully meets. Yeah. Probably fully meets. It's hydrologically connected. But it fully meets the standards because on class four roads, the only thing you have to do is if there's an erosion spot that's found, that's more than a foot. That's a foot or more. That has to be fixed in the class four road. Nothing else. Right. And that is like last year you did Woodbury Mountain Road, right? Yeah. Last year. And Apple Hill. Right. And on class four. Yeah. That's right. Right. But we had gullies that were more than a foot. Yeah. And that's why. Yeah. And we got our grant for it also. So just for visual fun, we made some maps of which segments do not meet, partially meet, and fully meet. And then I just took one off, did another one without the fully meet segments. So you can just see visually which ones those are that don't meet and partially meet. And then I did a map of the very high priorities. Just to give you spatial reference. I know this is a lot to take in. Oh, there's some nice, you know, visuals in the back of crowning. Popper crowning and some burns. And I apologize for the occasion on the state culverts and all of that. It's just you don't have to meet the standards specifically on a perennial stream because it has to meet the road and bridge standards. So I'm just trying to take in this. Yeah. You said that this state, this force sort of helps the state decide where they put the grant line. Yeah. I mean, if you, yeah. So if you have a very high priority segment and you're applying, you know, say you applied for better roads grant and you say we're going to, you know, use this grant to fix this problem, which has been determined as a very high priority. No. You use that in addition to support the grant application work that was a culvert, you know, a culvert that was too small with a lot of erosion at the outfall because of that, you know, a culvert replacement. Yeah. The reason I asked is last year we were turned down for two grants. Were they better roads ones? I think they were better roads. I don't know if they have looked at this and said outlaw calis is ahead of the game so let's get the money somewhere else. Unfortunately. If there is a place to decide where they're going. No. So the problem is that this is DEC and that's VTrans, better roads. But VTrans. Right. They fight with each other. You are right, Phil. No, they work together and they are trying. This really, you know, VTrans does have, you know, a lot of play in this as well when this permit was coming out. You know, VTrans is very much involved. I think VTrans recognizes that to meet the phosphorus TMDL that towns have to fix these problems and if the DEC is requiring to fix these problems that money's got to come from somewhere and towns really need assistance in that. So I think they recognized it. If you were turned down for whatever reason I'm not sure what that reason was. Were they on hydrologically connected segments? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That was Marshville Road. Oh, the Marshville Road one. That was Gully Washington's road ones. So the outfall of that one. The outfall of the culprits. Is that that one in the storm water master plan that we're talking about? No, no, not the one. You're thinking of the one? I'm thinking of that one. No. I'm thinking of the one on Marshville Road. The one right next to Marshville Road. I thought we didn't get the Marshville Road one. That's what he's talking about. Yeah, that's what he's talking about, why he didn't get it. And I just didn't know if they were looking at this and they weren't counting the shape. Maybe we should put our minds somewhere else. I don't know if they're looking at this. I don't think so, yeah. They're probably not drilling down that far. I don't think they're drilling down that far. Okay, I'm just curious. Yeah, but that one. It's never been turned down before. Yeah, so if you've been turned down for that particular one. That one is on, that one is on, you know, I mean, well that one's on a prior, you know, that guldy is on a priority list for the stormwater master plan. And it's, if I go to the DEC with wanting to get, you know, implementation money for something like that, they're going to want, they're going to say, well, why didn't you go to Better Roads? And if you demonstrate, you went to Better Roads and they wouldn't fund it. Right, right. We can get you a copy of the denial. Yeah, yeah. I'd be interested and then share that with Dan as well. And so, because he can kind of help you out. Yeah. You know, with that money. I'm not going to run it through again this year, you know, try again. Because sometimes they have money. Run it by Dan before you try again just to see, you know, how you might be able to help booster your application. Because he does the transportation grants. Right, yeah. Yeah, get Dan to help you. Get Dan to help me with that one. Not yet. Wait till after October 1st. Until next week. Next week. And then, you know, if it really looks like we transplant for whatever reason we could try. Because it's on your radar, you're talking. Yeah. So in Marshfield. So is it two culverts or is it just that one? There's two separate grants. Two different culverts. And they're both outlaws. And they're both on Marshfield Road. They're both not. Great. You're going to do it together, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And they don't give a reason. They just say denied. It could be because we've gotten money. Pretty regular. But it's not hydro on the band though, right? Yeah, it's not. Well, no, it's that particular spot. So I can see the sharp end. I'll look into what. Because I don't know why that wouldn't. I don't know why that would have come up fully meets. Stuff that outfall. Maybe people can see that. Maybe it was the interns. Maybe it was Toby. He did most of it, right? Yeah. All right. I'll look into that for you. Are there any other questions? Thank you very much. There's just a report. You don't need an action from us. Don't need an action. Is your information. And will you be following up with us every year? How do we... So that's on the town to, you know, report to the state on their schedule. But I will send you that link. So, you know, if you want to check on the progress that these guys are making, you can see it directly there. But we can ask Toby and stuff for an annual update of what's done, what's going to be done maybe next year. And then, you know, periodically the state's going to ask for, you know, an updated inventory, which I think is going to be about every five years or so. Yeah. And so we'll be there to assist. Right. Yeah, exactly. Right. And then sometimes the work that you've done might have to be repeated, like the firms and the crowns. And I think that's, you know, as we move into the future with us, I mean, this is not... I mean, even when they get to 2037, that's not going to be the end all. You know, they're going to want to continue and just make sure that things, you know, because, you know, God forbid we got an Irene or something. We watched a lot of this stuff out. We just did. So, just tonight. So, you know, it's not going to be, you know, it's a plan and it's a way to implement the standards that are being required. Pam, when we go on the state correlate, you're going to send us... Does it look sort of like this, or is it more... I should have... It's really a table like this. So what it says is, it says the priorities for everyone. I don't have it with me. I can maybe... Make it up. Well, I don't know. What I'm curious about is whether we're going to be able to readily, you know, kind of... Yeah, track the progress. Track our progress. Or is it... If it's 1-Z-2-Z like the wastewater database, you know, I have no idea. No, it's not that bad. It does look a little different from this. The priority isn't a column. So you'll see a particular road segment listed and it'll give you a... It'll show you the column of what the priority is. Or whether the segment does not meet fully meets or partially meets. And then it'll also show what caused those scores. So for instance, it'll show the crown doesn't meet with a D or an F for fully repeat. So it's a lot more detailed than this and I didn't want to... It's a lot to look at. So I didn't want to bring that to you on a planning table. I'm just... What I'm more... I think we should be more interested in rather than just, you know, line by line. It's just kind of an overall sense that, okay, maybe this is something we ask Alfred to give us. We had 26 very high priorities. I mean, who cares where they are? How many are done? 64 high priorities. So we can just track even at that macro level. What's the progress? I think the biggest thing is what are the high priority ones that need to get done first in the shuffle. And those are the ones that you're already working on. Like I said earlier, this report is two years ago. So we've done a lot of these work already. So if this was recalibrated, we're going to have a lot less that doesn't beat. I'm just interested in how many. So of the 26, how many are done? Of the 24. So Toby would know that? Toby should be able to get that from that table. From us updating it or pull it out of my head. Can you connect that? Which I don't know. I clearly told you last week you're still working on this, right? It's still the season over. Is it going to be a continual work in progress, I think? Not a season. Yeah, season. So the problem with this, there's no column here on the portal for done and not done. So you guys report you have your own table that you have to submit. I think maybe the thing to do is Toby to come in with this table that he does stuff on and show us how it works. So this is the priority and these are the various things that are wrong with it and the status of whether it meets or it doesn't meet. Whether it's a class 4 road or a gravel road or a paved road name. But there's not a column that's you know done or done. Because that's another table that they submit. That's the whole idea of them coming and doing another inventory. Five years they're looking at it again. That's why Dan suggested I give this to you because it'll give you a little bit. If you want I could just even you know Can you just email that table to Toby? Email you the word the table. That would be helpful I think. Because it's a quick look. That's all we're after. Because our job is to just you know applaud the progress even if it's once a year that we see these numbers go down. We won't know that we don't have something to look at. Thank you Pam. You did appreciate it. Anything else on this offer? No. Do we have a Toby coming up? Do we have a Toby check-in email? We will. Maybe we can put this on the Yeah Katie can put it on my to-do list. That we want to hear from Toby about this. Alright we skipped over the ROW application for Tammy Boecker. Boebert on Martin's Road and I look on our website for the form that we sign off on but the form is not there. Yes. It's Bill Pelton. Yes. The guy that owns the property. You both thought of it. No I was doing a bunch of looking around. Oh. Okay. Bill Pelton. Okay. Thank you for that. So Alfred do you want to talk to us about this right away? She feels the need to put a culvert on her. Good night. See ya. Thank you. So I just told her the most thing she'd have to do is to put a culvert on her because she's working in her right way. And you it says here 18 inch diameter, 20 feet long. Is that 15 inch? The drive I call her the standard is 15 inch diameter, 20 feet long. She's saying 18 in her. She's right. That's fine. But it only requires a 15 inch. 18 inches is the standard size for driving on a stake there. They actually made 18 inch culverts. 18 inches is the standard for roads. Okay so they have 18 inch culverts out there. That's our standard for our roads. Because I can let her know that 15 is the standard for a drive on a standard drive I call her. Because I can let her know that because it's probably less than she wants it again. So the 15 inch culvert is the standard for driveways. She doesn't have one now? Is that the dispute deal? She's got one, but it's further up the driveway. It's like in its way out of our right way. It's not. But she is in conflict with her neighbor. So which I am staying away from. Because it's water that's coming off of crossing her driveway and dumping onto his. He's got a problem with it. So she told me that she was going to move the culvert to try to appease him and I said you don't want to move that culvert. It needs to be there. So then she said well I'm just going to add one at the bottom of my driveway then. I'm like okay, well if you want to do that, that's fine. But you're just going to have a right of way permit. Because now you're working in our right of way. Right. Is that going to solve the problem she's having? Is there problems with her neighbor? No, but are they going to solve the water problem? It's going to solve what she thinks is a lot of problems. Okay, that's all we need to know. Yes. Look at that. I think we'll approve it and let her do the work. And I'll go back and look at it and make sure it's not the standard. Well we're not going to be able to sign anything. We can approve it. But until I can get the form from the town office. The form that you speak of is after the work is done. Well we have to know but usually we have something like on a curb cut permit where we say what we agree to and then the board signs it but there's nothing with this. So I'll have to do some more work on that and then get the board to sign it after but we can go ahead and approve it tonight. There's also, but if you can scroll down there was a hang on, there was a spot where there was a check some check fields that weren't completed. Has the project been clearly marked, staked, and flagged at this site? Yes or no? Where I assume. Oh right there. Has it been? Yeah I feel like we need to have that answered so we know. You mean before we approve it? Well It's an existing driveway. It's an existing driveway. It's got a new curb cut and so right away permit not so much. Where is this in relation to the champagne property? Champagne. Is there a farm there that Fairmont puts corn on? It's the very first driveway as you leave County Road on to Marm Road. It's on the right hand side. It's a new it's a new establishment about five years or so. Right it's not. It's a double line. And that's Tammy. Okay I know exactly where that is now. She's asking $177 to sell the damn thing. That's it. For now do you know anything? So okay so not to be a stickler but underneath it says the proposed right-of-way site must be flagged before the application will be considered. Has the project been clearly marked, staked, and flagged? This is a right-of-way application. Not a right, isn't that what it is? Yeah right away. So is that question relevant to this application? Well she hasn't been marked. Well it's one narrowly yes but scenes of conversation that I had with her I know the area. It's a driveway. It's an existing driveway. If it was something that they were going to like put a building on in our right way or put some sort of structure then I would say yes it needs to be marked so everybody can look at it. But really it's only a call we're going in. A lot of times I'll do this work myself but I don't feel like it's necessary and she's already going to do some work there anyways. So I just said you got to get a permit and you can do it. It's not going to affect our road. So the answer is no. The answer is N.A. Or no. And Toby's perfectly comfortable. The answer is no but I think the reason is because it doesn't apply. It's because Alfred knows the area and he's comfortable with what she's proposing. I think it's not what I heard as the reason. I heard the reason was that it's already existing. It is an existing driveway. So can you just put what's going on but not applicable? I just don't want to start slipping on expectations. I would say no but no for the minutes that Alfred has met with Elena or he's perfectly comfortable. He understands the project scope and he doesn't feel in this particular instance it's necessary to have stakes in place. No but not necessary. Right. It still applies. It's not necessary. It's still there. That's exactly my point. It's that we've been really clear about why we're making an exception. If I hadn't gone and looked at it and I hadn't gone and you know if I hadn't known the area then we would have wanted it marked. But you did a site visit I think we can say in the minutes that you visited the site and you really know the designated spot where the culvert will be installed. Right. So like I said if we can get a motion for all of that in a second and I'll have to track down the form which I know there is one but I couldn't find it on the website. Can the motion include the author as you sign on behalf of the board? I suppose could. Yeah I mean we don't normally do that either but since we're making exceptions to that we can do that. We've done stuff like this before. We've got you signed. We've checked. The board's on board. Alright do you want to add that to the motion? And who made the motion John? I think Cliff just did. Alright is there a second? Second. Okay for the discussion all those in favor please say aye. Those two are done. Alright I think you don't have to stay anymore. Want to hear about all the other stuff? No I'm good. Thank you. Thank you. Good night. Hopefully it didn't wash out any roads with the rain. Right. The rain's pretty high up. I'm worried more about trees. Yeah well we haven't heard the phone ring. Is it? Well you know what we were in for some rain. Oh boy how long is this going to take? The late homestead decorations everybody somehow or another has to file this form with their taxes and sometimes if you have an account and do it they do it for you otherwise you're supposed to do it every year. And if you don't do it every year then the state charges you extra money and if you don't file it and you file it late then you're supposed to have a penalty. Calis and I've gone around and around asking questions to the town office staff and getting information. Calis has not charged a penalty from folks that have late filing fees. We did about two years ago. But we stopped doing that. We stopped doing it because we kept going and had abatement meetings all the time. We had to rectify whatever it was because the tax accountant didn't do their job, blah blah blah and then we went through the abatement and then whatever it was and it became like That's right because we did do abatements for those. I remember that now. Yeah. We couldn't find anything in our minutes because they were probably in the abatement. Decided that we aren't going to charge a fee because what it did is it caused a lot of extra paperwork for the town office staff, the BOA or the BCA to keep abating these. But apparently and it was brought up to Judy and Sandra through a training and through NUNI NET the listserv that they all have that the select board is supposed to annually decide that it's not going to charge the late the late filing homestead penalty. And we haven't done it for at least a couple of years ever since we did those abatements and I think we're supposed to do it by June so they asked us if we would just for the record say that we're not going to charge this late homestead declaration penalty and then we're going to have to remember to do it every year and there's a statute taxation and finance of homestead and I don't know is that in the it's probably the references the records in here is 30 to 540 10G it sounds like from what you're saying though we're already doing this we're already doing this right so we just have to go back and officially put it in the minutes and then remember to do it probably like at the beginning of the fiscal year or something like that would be the easiest but so I make the motion that we endorse our practice of waiving the late fee for filing a late homestead declaration second ready for the discussion all those in favor please say aye aye any opposed none alright now we're probably not going to get through this item to come back in for this discussion well no we got through one thing but I wanted to be here for this discussion this is the town hall town office reserve fund remember at our last select board meeting we had a discussion about this and how good night good night how we it was awesome it was probably last meeting I saw emails about it you can watch the video just get your coffee we're in a job we'll just get caught up right now you don't want to watch the video there's so much fun in it we had this discussion raised about the use of the town hall town office reserve funds for and the minutes from town meetings say repair and maintenance that's what the voters approve we used and authorized the use of the town hall reserve funds for renovation and it came up in the context of using those funds for renovations here in the town office in my mind I guess I really didn't think repairs and maintenance I guess it's different than renovation to me this maybe could be considered repairs and maintenance once done here clearly over there it's repairs and maintenance that have been put off for 75 years or something like that but it's called renovation we didn't call it town hall repair and maintenance committee we call it town hall renovation committee so I don't know how deep in the weeds we want to go with this we could put something on the morning for next town meeting to clarify that use Jim Barlow responded on its face reconfiguration of town hall office and cherry we're not in the ordinary use of the words be considered repairs and maintenance I don't know that the voters really thought about renovation or reconfiguring the inside of the town office the discussion we need to have is do we think that it meets the voter intent back in 2014 with these articles or do we want to put something on the morning to clarify it for next town meeting and saying that it was okay for us to use the town hall town office reserve funds for reconfiguration renovation where are we on the roof well that's going to come up where's the money in there probably to do both well right that's another question whether we can do both but this year we're not going to get John's been giving us regular updates with Andy this year it looks like we're just going to do some kind of a fix because we haven't been able to get a contractor because there's two issues there's the roof and then there's what are you going to find under the roof that's rotted and needs to be fixed that's repairs and maintenance so you can kind of take this down to the inertia how much money is in that fund I don't remember from last time the discussion is at the minutes was it the 9.9 September 9th minutes it might have been I think it would be I looked at them earlier but I guess the question is are we meeting the voter intent with the use of these funds in my mind is the better question clearly the roof is maintenance because leaks and I think where I'm coming from Denise is to I agree with Jim and I agree with you and so that's kind of the priority that emerges in my mind is the language on its face says repairs and maintenance and the roof is clearly repairs and maintenance and the building is going to crumble around if we don't do that the last thing we want to try to defend our decision to use repair and maintenance money to do reconfiguration when we can't afford to do the roof the roof's got to come first that's what I'm saying as long as there's money to do both I think there is money to do both depending on what Steeple Chase comes back with for design and it might be that the design cannot be implemented fully to be over the course of a few years with the roof coming first the discussion happened in the 26th the August 26th meeting where Sandra updated us I don't remember off the top of my head I know there's money in there well it was $10,807 that's currently in there and do you remember she was saying that the Town Hall Reserve Fund had 10 thousand and there's not an exact amount in the September 9th it's a Town Office and Town Hall Reserve and we wrote article 23 no it's article 23 and 24 in 2014 right but I'm saying we split them out back then I think we split them out recently okay so I'm looking at article 243 was to see if the Town will establish a Town Office and Town Hall Reserve Fund through the maintenance of these Town Buildings and article 24 was to see if the Town will appropriate some of 20,000 to be deposited in the same fund right and I don't remember which meeting it was but we decided as a board to take what was in the fund split it in half having each fund so that one fund like the Town Office Fund then get succumbed by the Town Hall so to make it fair pros might have the right resource this is the budget update this should tell us this looks like when it was together $64,319 I thought she said 60 something but we took that amount though and split it and that amount was before the recent appropriation you know what I mean because that's from Town meeting last year and since then there would have been the appropriation from 2018 the fiscal year July 19 so Town Office Fund I just grabbed this I'm on I don't know what page I'm on it's the General Ledger it looks like this so what is this this is for everybody sitting there that's on our list so on the Town Town of General Ledger all right so the Town Office Fund looks like $60,000 is that the one we're talking about we're talking about the Town Office Fund not at all the Office so is that the Town Office Fund $60,000 okay $9,900 according to a piece of paper we have here so that's right so $60,000 $60,000 roof problem yeah that's my concern is that we don't spend all our money moving well and when we talked to Steeplechase last time I remember bringing up the roof issue I remember bringing it up to him that we have this issue because we haven't been able to you said will you work on it and said whoa we don't really do roofs but they do repairs like underneath you said they didn't really do that how are we going to get the experience from Andy to get this done you can see him tomorrow he'll be there we're meeting over there we're meeting over there really in the fancy building yeah I was a little excited over there that's the only time John and Donna were good will the camera be there tomorrow? I don't know no the camera so I put the camera could you download it if you want it if you want to I don't care no I can video it if you want to I don't know if people want to watch it while they're drinking their coffee or not we'll increase coffee sales oh that'd be good economic so anyways I guess my question is when I look at this I think we're meeting voter intent I really do what renovating? we're using the money for we're using it for the building we're not swiping the money I have that picnic with it I don't disagree as long as there's money to fix the roof which really is that's the first priority here obviously other than that we're good and will be in addition to the fund this town meeting anyway we'll be taking care of it until next and it's 20,000 we've been asking for and I'm really glad that we did that years ago thinking ahead we did good do we do it each year? yeah so I don't have a problem with it's an important issue right and no others agree? I don't know I'm still kind of torn because I think we asked Jim for his legal opinion and I actually printed out what he said and Donna raised the question and then we asked Jim he said you're really kind of and so after I read this I was like alright we're going to have a special meeting and then that's that I mean I can see just like what Sharon said I mean I could see both ways but when you take it for its words on its face it's not really repairs and maintenance but yes it's something like John just said we're not putting it on something else it's really a very we've established that this really needs to happen so I'm kind of torn I mean what we could do is if we wanted to say the same amount or we wanted to increase the amount it goes into these reserve funds we could put it on the morning again and include renovation to me it's about I agree I don't think any of you are disagrees I'm going to speak for everyone with Jim's interpretation and he's trying to keep us on the high ground but this is about the functioning of our government this is about we have really good staff and I would not want anything to happen where they were so uncomfortable working here that they went away somewhere else that was more pleasant so I don't think it's reckless this is about making our office more efficient and I think that Jim is looking out for us this is clearly what we said in the article but I think the intent in my mind was for whatever these buildings needed to keep them up in money and that's voter intent and so Jim is how I read Jim's email is wouldn't it be nice if Jim said oh there's four cases out there that decided their repair and maintenance absolutely includes what you're talking about and all he's saying is there's not there's not those cases so Jim, even though he's a lawyer, is looking at the language and telling us it means what it says it's not a legal opinion that we're in trouble if we interpret it, it's more like being grand that he can offer us that protects us but we're kind of stuck with our own excellent judgment to make a decision about what's the best course for the town given what we know and understand about our needs the language and our townsfolk right and I think like I said I think that you know the voter intent in my understanding is until somebody raised it I didn't even really think that it was an issue right so for me for me the lesser issue is this for me it's one voting member the greater issue is there was a lot of time effort spending to make this actually a beautiful office and I don't even mind the paint color I think it's beautiful I like it when I come in here I'm like wow this is nice and I look around and I'm like maybe I could borrow that idea from my house someday it's really nice it's laid out really well from a aesthetic standpoint I also worked at the state and saw what they did to beautiful buildings in moldings when they hacked in walls and destroyed beautiful spaces and I just want to say this is a conversation on the road but I'm going to be really pushing to make sure this isn't something that just gets slapped together because in my estimation it's my opinion that office that building over there could be used fit it up right for an office as if this when I put this out in the email if there was an L put on this building we would send people down the L to work there but for some reason because we have a road in between us it's a physical possibility to move a file there everything's a physical possibility and I don't see it as that I see that if we put the right procedures in place that we could utilize that we have a clerk, we have an assistant clerk we have plenty of staff and I think there are a way not to go down that road too far but I think a lot of this could be resolved by internet connection phones that ring in both places at the same time and a small safe to store things in a room and signouts and I appreciate what you're saying I think we need to hear from the staff at a later date their thoughts and concerns with that approach but anyways that's not the discussion we're having tonight but I don't want to see us fit up this and spend crazy money when this is going to be a resource over there we can spend half a million dollars on that could provide equal or better I don't think we're going to know a lot until Steeple Chase is back to it and then we can go down that road right now we're talking about the reserve funds so are you okay now I think the lawyer's job is to give us the plain meaning of what we said like both of what Sharon and John said and clarification I do want to pile on and express a concern along the lines of what John said my what I don't want to see us do is do this every ten years I'm going to support it but I want to can buildings only ten years old can we do this first and then if we want to have the discussion do we want I just want to know if there's working census that the way we're handling the reserve fund right now is right is what we think and what we agree that the intent of those funds was for I think we should document I'm comfortable with using the fund for the reasons that we have been using well and to fill out the office to make right we may not agree with whatever totally comes back from them and then we have that and then we have that negotiation but right now we've been using and anticipating using the town office fund for some reconfiguration and repair we've been using the hall fund to help with the renovation to me that's a much more renovation than the roof I think my I hear what you're saying and I agree what I want to package with my agreement is the building isn't that old and we shouldn't be doing a reconfiguration every ten years and as office staff changes we don't want to be reconfiguring based on personality and personal preferences I want to make sure that we don't do that that's exactly what I want to be saying even as we say we're okay with it when the staff has grown yes but the town clerk's going to change every ten years we're not going to renovate every ten years so I want to be I think you hinted at something and you did mention earlier that we decided as a board to split the fund in 50-50 that's not a hard line that's a policy and if we need to borrow to borrow everything in that fund for this office to work over there to get that thing up and running I think that's 100% appropriate in anticipation of going to town meeting and we would ask for the money to be because the scheduling would be different for this office understanding this office would be a spring summer project because this article 24 says $20,000 into the town office they were one they were one but we are managing them in our accounting practices we are managing them as separate but they are one and this money can move back and forth likewise down the road if their project is going to be delayed for a year and we can borrow and put it over here I mean it's within our authority as a board to be able to do this and that's what this is really all about like John said we're not squandering it and I think it's easy enough to justify how we used it and why you want to ask Cliff how do you feel about it yes on the surface I absolutely understand the point Jim makes in his email here I think we all are in agreement and would all acknowledge that what would drive a renovation be it every 10 years be it once in 20 years or every 5 years it's the needs of the town that's what would drive it the space as it was designed and built worked for the needs of the town at that point in time but now things have changed and we can't get by with just one person so we have to address the needs of the town and that's why we agree to do this and I think if you ask the voters you know okay you supported this in creating this fund I don't think anyone would disagree with yeah we want the town to be able to function and do the things that the town needs to do so that we can continue to exist and the voters did support the charter which evolved into with the understanding we were going to hire a treasurer need to put your staff somewhere yes I mean it's a whole big picture kind of thing interconnectedness of the universe however that being said I don't think it is ill advised to look at the possibility of updating this language at some future point so that it's clear so that there is no questions and that the town has that opportunity to say yes this is what we intended to accomplish I was just looking at that this is last year's morning yeah so it is the one from this march yeah it actually now I've lost it again it says town office reserve fund that's all the language is it's in the budget now instead of as an article oh so that's yeah they're approved because you established it with the articles and then you put it into the budget right but you know if we wanted to say maybe we need to be thinking for future maintenance you know you can clarify it then as well by saying repairs maintenance renovation so that you cover all the bases I think even if we had talked about renovation I mean that wasn't around the board at the time but I don't think we would have gone that deep to say maintenance doesn't include taking cabinets out and writing things around I mean to me that all goes together when you renovate your kitchen that's you're maintaining your house squeaky spots and keep the mice out and if we didn't do something to renovate the town hall you know eventually it's going to fall in because the foundation was so bad and you know like I said I agree I don't think we need to we need to look at the big picture how does our town government function it is more employees when this was built it was one person because you could have privacy now there's no privacy one person can perform both functions right and that one you know there's no place to have HR discussions or if somebody is upset about something in the link with taxpayers there's no place to take them to like call them board members used to meet in houses I don't remember meeting at either the kitchen table Cliff had the right language I think we might even you know we'll have a place all the right to have revisit this conversation but it's really or you know other whatever is to well like for instance we're having an upgrade for instance we're having an upgrade IT wiring as part of this project that's not maintenance I don't know how everyone's attention to what's on the screen oh renovate restore something old to a good state thank you it's really reconfigured it's the reconfiguration we've spent too much time on this yeah I would say if you want to move on I mean would the board feel more comfortable if we actually had a motion or is this discussion and the documentation in the minutes good enough for everybody I don't yeah you're good okay let's not kick the horse to death good alright moving on alright so I still haven't scheduled this meeting about story animals and stuff but I will it's on my list I've had other things coming up alright IT update no update other than I still like to get it on the schedule to make a decision as to whether we still want to work with talking to people or if we just want to make that decision based upon what we have okay and I don't remember where we left off I think we left off on wanting to have people come in where we left off was we were looking at we had that whole big having a discussion about where we are right now we're looking to have a special meeting possibly as early as today meeting at 6 other things came up and so that didn't happen do you want to schedule a special meeting at the beginning of our October meeting to have this discussion I don't know if we need to have a special meeting if we just want to put a block of time in the section of regular meeting to do what where we want to go from here do we want to still have people come in do we want to make a decision based on the information that we already have I mean it's going to be October we're paying RB Tech more per month now than we would if we had chosen them as our contracted people but we had concerns about RB Tech based on issues that came up we went through all this ROK process the chart that Cliff came up with and then we got stalled out trying to decide whether we want people to come in and when what support would be it became problematic as we moved into the sun and what not which we were all involved in different things so that's what I would recommend would be that we just block out some time on a regular meeting and have that discussion and if anybody wants me to re-send some of those documents that I created and did presentations on they're all in there are they in a separate folder marked? I believe they are all in there I did create a separate folder but I'm not sure if they're all in there it's in the shared I'll have to double check and make sure I've done everything I think if everything is just in there RFP IT service proposals we have our little chart the analysis I think was in the other folder that's the one I'm not sure maybe you could just double check and make sure everything's in here and then we'll schedule like a half an hour time on an upcoming agenda to talk about it here it is, the SWOT analysis does that have all of our combined scoring too though? I mean if you could put all three of those documents in that same folder then it'll all be together okay yeah I'll go through and make sure that everything we did is in here I'm thinking there's one document that's missing okay alright perfect remind me to make sure I'm sure it's in there I'm confused on when I was looking for something on the town website I saw this emergency reserve fund balance policy and I read it and I read it again and it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me I'm trying to remember if Scott was on the board then I think he's the one who suggested that we do this I'm not sure but what the intent was because we have highway reserve funds, we have town hall town office reserve funds already so I just want to put this on our radar are you going to talk about it another time? yeah I just want to put this on everybody's radar this is why sometimes I do this to get it on people's radar so that it doesn't you know come up with it suddenly it's like working in like what the heck is this it's not in tonight's folder though alright I went through the folder it's on the website can you put it in the folder not for tonight but for whenever next meeting go right in if we do with that meeting because then otherwise you got to keep moving stuff different folders but anyways I just want to put it on your radar and get people to look at it and maybe you understand it better than I will the auditor I signed it February 2018 that's when I'm like I wonder what we meant by this for sure I just want to review it because I'm not exactly sure auditors they're going to from my conversation with Sandra they're going to come on the 14th so that's going to take a big chunk of time to review the audit that they just did so we might not we might not be able to do that but that was a good time that same night to review let's read it again to review Sandra's most recent report to the board which is in the folder for tonight and then there she did print our copies because I think the two go together do you have one yeah I have one John doesn't even because he doesn't like painting so anyways the discussion on the 14th there's going to be a lot of finance audit that kind of stuff the union petition thing so I got back to them with what we discussed last meeting and they wrote back is the letter communicating I don't think so was it in the 9.9 I just got this on I thought I did is it not in the it doesn't sound like something well it's not very long it just says I would like to request the tout of Cal's policies, procedures, wages and benefits yeah I think I emailed it to you guys because I said that I gave them the link to the policies and procedures on our website so you did get this I might not have sent it to UK I might have so they have a nice pretty logo color so they agreed to review our policies and procedures on the link Sandra had quite a workload beginning of the week so we agreed that by the middle Wednesday or Thursday of this week she would get them the wages and benefits piece of the road 3 road crew employees so that's it that's all the update I'm going to make some copies of this except for John yeah don't make John a copy ZA the planning commission reviewed and approved the updated job description it has been posted on in the Times Argus hardbook is that front porch forum BLCT and CVRPC the deadline for applications is October 7 the planning commission met last week on Tuesday and I attended because they had the CA from Woodbury Bob Martin attend he you know he contacted Jan and said I'm really interested in currently the CA at Woodbury but we thought we should do our due diligence and can and go through the process the way we would for anything see what other applications we get whether there's people that need to be interviewed or we want to interview even though he liked him he sounds like he has good experience he was really interested in Calis because he said our zoning rigs are so much more detailed and in depth and he's living Woodbury and he's owned by Bob Martin it's not the guy we thought he gets $400 $500 every six months for his work in Woodbury and so he thought we were pretty generous to offer $400 a month so anyway so stay tuned the deadline is the 7th the planning commission would probably have if they get anything maybe they put it on their October 8 agenda they don't get anything maybe they'll recommend for us for Monday the 14th because the process is that the zoning planning commission reviews and recommends that doesn't mean that we can't if they get two or three people and we want to meet all three we have that right to do that do we have a zoning administrator now? yes it's John McCulloch and Dorsey Nailer and they're okay so anyways that's kind of where we're at with that and they both pretty much said we're stuck in doing this well I knew that I just wasn't sure if they actually quit and John said that we need to get on the stick because he wants to educate and he wants to become much of a woman and my papers well you like it even but I don't that would be more wasteful to promote your stuff that's right I have to meet with Alfred UVM capstone project I've communicated with one of the students it's the lead student so I'm going to try to schedule hopefully this week for the students to come and go on a tour with Alfred so they get an idea of the and then we'll come together for a meeting with them about what we talked about with Dr. John Lenz and he I sent them some information anyways that's in the works I forgot to e-mail you guys the letter to Elizabeth Shed so I'll do that the town office was reviewing the holidays so Judy sent an e-mail that they're reviewing the holidays until Monday, October 14 this Columbus Day there's a select board meeting that night but the office is closed and she wants to move the November 11 Veterans Day holiday to which is a Monday but it's also the Monday of the final week for property taxes that are due November 15 so they're suggesting that they move the Veterans Day holiday to the Wednesday before Thanksgiving Day that's fine and we can update the personnel policy as we're doing it just so you know I don't have a dog in this fight but I know when this state would do this veterans would get upset because they're reviewing that day as a day off rather than what it is so I just want to put that out there it's I remember that I don't blame the veterans so I just it's also the second Monday which is a regular meeting night so the question is do we want to say that they should have the office closed in observance of Veterans Day? on Monday the 11th on November 11th to me I think my opinion is that if the staff would like to have that day before Thanksgiving off then we should just that should be a separate conversation and I don't see any problem with the work giving that to everybody that's important to them but I think they would I think they were looking at it that they wanted to have the office open on the Veterans Day holiday to accept taxes because that's tax I see that was their thinking and that was good thinking on their part but I get what you say about that so I don't know well that's what she clearly states it is the Monday of the final week of property taxes on the day of November 15 that Monday will be hectic with a huge pile of mail so Judy has the right to set her schedule and Barbara's but she doesn't have the right to do it for our employees which is Sandra and the part time Barbara but I think she makes a good I think she's thinking about the town you know part of it and making it convenient for towns people and taxpayers but I don't want to overlook the importance of recognizing Veterans Day so well maybe can we do is there such a thing as both fan I mean a lot of people will have the day off and be observing Veterans Day and maybe a good day for them to stop in and pay their taxes are there is there a flag we can fly or something else that we can do to acknowledge acknowledge that it's Veterans Day I bet Barbara could come up with some she's really good with computer stuff we could ask Barbara to come up with some really nice signs to put in the windows and maybe when I support a Veterans Day the only other thing I could think of was to maybe as a bonus we give them everybody broken into the day before Thanksgiving unless of course there's a storm in the road protest to work that is a separate conversation because the road crew will have that day off Friday we might look at our holidays and personnel because a lot of places will have 10 holidays what 10 days they are move around the other thing we can do is if we decide to keep the town offices open on the 11th we'll announce that on Front Forge Forum and the announcement can be acknowledging and sensitive to the Veterans and you know not just hey, guess what we're open on Veterans Day because we'll get feedback or flag for that and I don't blame them I think that's exactly right I think that's a really fair point what she makes is that the road crew gets town meeting day off but the office staff doesn't even though it's listed in the personnel policy so we have some clarifying to do and juggling and you know some places give you okay these are the holidays and you get to pick this many out of this list that you want to take they should get a cop time for that well Judy gets paid the same amount of time so she can have her day she can have her day and we know we've asked the Charger typically who is now because of the Charger and employee to come to town meeting which we did last year so anyways I mean they're thinking and I'm glad they're thinking about this it shows that they really care I think we should approve their request they give us good reasons but we should in communicating that to them tell them they're incredibly sensitive to the fact that it's Veterans Day and we want as a town to honor our veterans so in communicating that we're open to receive taxes be sensitive and what are the other ways and that's all the stuff that we already talked about anybody else have thoughts so the town I'm sorry so the town office is going to be closed on October 14th for Columbus Day open November 11th Veterans Day and are they taking Wednesday off before Thanksgiving that's their proposal and they always will they have Friday off they always have Friday off anyways they have they will have accrued comp hours so so that means that last week in November the town office is only open Monday and Tuesday yeah that's going to be a hardship for the public I don't know that's usually a pretty low key week yeah a lot of people don't work on that one they travel I actually think it makes more sense to close the office than to do the comp time in this situation because otherwise you're stuck with one person trying to keep an office up because that person didn't want to take today off I see you can do that when the employers got 400 people in the building so I guess the motion is that we will approve their request as presented noting that we are sensitive and appreciative of the fact that it's Veterans Day and we will honor it as such in other ways and would that be that message be packaged in any communications and that's going to be in minutes is there a second second for the comment all those in favor please say aye and what about the thank you I thought that was part of I don't think you said that part I don't know maybe I didn't well I said the proposal as presented the proposal as presented she clarified it in the minutes so my question is will the select board meet on this day and Veterans Day I don't need to know that right now I would like to know if we're going to meet on October 14th I was figuring that we would that's Columbus Day but I need to know about Veterans Day and that we don't have to decide to make Veterans Day is November 11th so is everybody good from Columbus Day I see heads Bobby Indigenous Dan Vermont that's what I mean it's a regular schedule meeting yeah it's a second yeah I'm just looking to see does anybody have law from school or anything they will close randomly on these holidays but they're not on that one November 11th Veterans Day I'm looking at some minutes by the way here back in August of this year? yes the town hall town office reserve fund had 65,000 but we then voted to move 5,000 to the Steeple Chase now it's down to 60 right so Steeple Chase has already been pulled out as of that that was on the 26th yeah so that numbers that would be Sharon alright so that's I didn't get a real answer on November 11th whether folks want to meet that day or not do you want to think about it and let me know I mean that's a normal yeah I mean that's a normal day so I'm just going to go with it but that's a day that we would meet alright the other issue is and this will come before us at some point the memorial hall committee group that was working to purchase a memorial hall they've had their closing and they are going to if you read the letter that we sent to them when they asked us about money from the conservation commission fund it's very clear on what they need to do what I've been back and forth with Gus and Stephanie you know the conservation commission about what they need to do so alright so the first step is to post to a point an advisory committee and it is supposed to include members of the conservation commission so Gus is going to be going to an upcoming meeting of the conservation commission just to give you an update on what's going on with that and I think I don't know what this one is everybody should have that letter but if you don't have it all around it was in I forget which it was back in 2018 that we signed off on the letter not if people want to read it again but you maybe don't need to read it until we get ready to meet with the memorial hall folks in the conservation commission I don't know because Stephanie was going to get them on an agenda I think it's really important because it's proper in Texas you should have it sooner rather later well that because it may be a sizable expenditure in fact it ends up being that they have to fund that and they may not be prepared for that and no longer will we defer meeting with them at least on that issue the less able they're going to be possibly able to generate yeah you made that before I can ask Gus and Chris and ask them if they thought about this and they may have maybe they might have got it resolved so let's find out I'll ask them I'm thinking it's such a technical alright I'll ask them okay does anybody have anything else or do you want to move on to minutes they are on the minutes from the night you made a comment on something I don't understand the minutes from the night I always say August 5th oh I said 30% is not a majority that's what he calls it and he's going to provide an update on this is bizarre yeah it's like 66% majority is more than half it has to be one more than 50% one person so maybe we take on the word majority is that what you're point was well 30% is not a majority that's all I'm saying I don't have a context for it but as a person it wasn't part of the discussion it doesn't make any sense is that the right now that's got to be a typo no that's what they said 30% I wonder if it's who says that Tim Newton Tim Newton so 30% of the word force can move a vote well and 30% is actually two people right that's all it takes that's all it took is two people 30% is less than one that's what I'm saying it's not even a whole person oh you're right it's only one so I want to do it you're right it's a 30% so it's 30% well it has to be for the minutes to make it clear it had to be two out of the three employees that voted 30% is one person they're right so then what I'm saying is to clarify for the minutes it is it had to be two out of the three people so maybe 30% isn't the right three is 60% can we just delete 30% for the minutes that would be the yeah and then it is that's what he said two out of the three and he kept saying 30% but I never right that never sunk in until now alright so with that chained there's a spot with two question marks that's because I didn't understand what Sharon was getting at but I don't think there was anything else it's on yeah this thing with the CBPRC GMT that we had a discussion nothing talked about is that something we could take that out because it was just to let you know it was going to go on this meeting okay so take out that entire item no just take out nothing talked about okay because I did mention it yeah you could just say we'll it says update anything under there basically what's going on and what's coming up discussion alright any old business or new business we have to improve these oh and did you fix the reference for the statute for real estate matters actually you did it will change the word but I didn't check oh I say statute reference I'm sorry I'm not sure statute reference I'll add a comment to put the right minute I see what you mean thank you okay so with those changes and the correct statute does anyone want to make a motion to approve the minutes second so the discussion all those in favor please say aye aye and the opposed or abstaining aye and abstaining we have to go under we've got one session for anything do you want to do your oh I don't think we can do the other minutes because I think we need to do it has to be a clarification from Sonia which show me where August 5th the state allows for tenta and Calis needs to raise 300,000 in taxes oh no we asked her didn't we ask her that yes so what was the clarification she did I emailed these before I posted them she asked me to send these to her before I posted them so she has reviewed them she made corrections as well but she didn't look at that that's how she gave it to me could you send them back said the board would like clarification on that anything just copy and paste that paragraph and send her that paragraph Sandra is this right clarification for this amount probably talked about this asked her to review it for accuracy did she respond to that Katie did you see my email let's see she says show more oh she did we wanted a clarification one of the clarifications we were looking for it's a $40,000 exemption or a reduction or exemption it's up to a $40,000 reduction in the valuation not any actual tax amount because no one has a property tax bill $40,000 I know it's a reduction in the valuation of $40,000 so that's kind of not written right that's important though and the effect of that reduction of up to $40,000 is probably every one would qualify for because every house is worth more than that what is the effect of that reduction in terms of dollars and is that the $300,000 number that's the effect that seems like an obvious number did everybody right and that's what it makes sense to me right so that's the point in asking standard $40,000 in valuation if it was $40,000 it wouldn't come to that number no so I think this is this is not right okay so we're going to ask her to clarify this paragraph that we don't understand what it means I think they mean we need to cover $300,000 in in grand list that might be right it's going to impact the grand list by $300,000 and the monetary amount the monetary effect that is a much smaller number I don't know so you're typing this so we can ask standard so that's we can post a poem this one until that's clear I think it's not just us understanding what it means it's having that rewritten so that anybody reading it will understand right because if we look back at it we want to know women I have no idea what that means I kind of think what it means but it's not what it says I have a question about this is a movie, Katie Cliff question when Denise flies Sandra right in the comments does that trip a note into her inbox I do cool I don't know what this is that's very cool I'm not sure that she may have preferences I don't know if the user could set their preferences that they're not I'm not sure she needs to know I don't know the answer to that I get a notification every time someone but you're already set up as a user and that's and that's well and on the original string for the minutes it would be good to know if she got that if it works it's a nice try Denise you might have to put hat symbol in front of it hat hat symbol I thought you said hat hat on your hat do we have anything to go into executive session for yes and is it a personnel matter yes are you making a motion I'm making a motion I'm a personnel alright I would move that that's a motion for second 932