 Welcome to another episode of In the Zone, I am your host Chris Broussard and we've got another outstanding show for you this week. Great, insightful interview with Kenyan Martin, one of my favorite ex-NBA players to talk to. Of course, we got Knock Down Jay with Jason McIntyre and it gets heated this week. He even starts slamming things around, so you definitely want to check that out. But first, as always, we have to hit the top five. And this week, of course, is NBA All-Star weekend. One of the greatest parts of the weekend, probably the highlight for most people, is the slam dunk contest. And so that got a brother to thinking. What are the top five NBA slam dunk contest performances of all time? Not the best five dunks, not the best five contests, but the best five individual performances that anyone has put on in the dunk contest. So I'm going to hit you with that. At number five, Michael Jeffrey Jordan. Going back to 1988, now let me say this, Michael Jordan is the most graceful dunker and probably the most graceful player ever to play in the NBA. Jordan could do things that other players did and it just would look better. You know how look, Michael Jackson is a tremendous dancer. A lot of people could moonwalk. Hey, I could moonwalk, but I could do his moves and it never looked as good as Michael Jackson doing it. That's what it was like with Michael Jordan. He did dunks that other players could do, but the way he moved his legs, the way his body moved, the tongue out, the arms, the way he held things, it just looked better. At number four, the best game dunker in history, Vince Carter. Now you're like, wow, number four, that goes back to the year 2000. Vince Carter lit it up from the get go. Very first dunk, he ended the contest with a reverse windmill 360. Reverse windmill 360, meaning he jumped the opposite way and did a 360. Of course, he also put the elbow in the rim. He went from a foot or two inside the foul line to hand. Didn't remember. He's a two-footed dunker. So to do that off one foot was impressive. Vince Carter was tremendous. Carter alley-oop off the bounce from Tracy McGrady, went between the legs. The best game dunker of all time, Vince Carter at number four. At number three, Zach Levine 2016. I know this one shocks you because Zach won it that year with a tremendous battle with Aaron Gordon. I would say the best dunk contest in NBA history. Zach, of course, goes from a foot inside the free throw line between the legs. I mean, not Kobe Bryant, not JR Ryder. None of these guys had done that. It was ridiculous. Now, Zach, not as graceful. He's graceful. Not as graceful as Michael Jordan. Nothing's moving. The legs aren't moving. The butt isn't shaking. The arms aren't going all every which way. The elbows aren't out when he dunks. It's just smooth, straight line. Bam. He did it. Alley-oop also from a foot inside the foul line. Zach Levine at number three. At number two, DeWyte Howard 2008. Look, I never thought I would ever see a man that big, like say 6'10", winning the slam dunk contest. I know Larry Nance in 1984 beat Dr. J. It was the first dunk contest in NBA history. DeWyte Howard in 2008 came up with the most creative dunks imaginable, fathomable. I mean, he just wowed us with his creativity and these incredible athletic feats. I mean, to put anybody ahead of Vince Carter and Zach Levine and Michael Jordan, you know it had to be outrageous. DeWyte Howard at number two. At number one, this is a shocker, but I watched it and I gotta give him this do. Aaron Gordon 2016. Now I know you're saying, wait a minute, he lost. Zach Levine won. Aaron Gordon finished runner up. He did, but watch it again. Aaron Gordon had the best dunks. That was the best performance in slam dunk history. And Aaron, you got robbed. You didn't get your props. So Chris Broussard is giving you your props, man. Soak it up, enjoy it, celebrate. Now let me say this before I go. The NBA dunk contest, these are world-class dunkers, world-class athletes. Okay. The difference between the best and the fifth or tenth place person is minuscule. It's this much. It's like in track and field. The difference between gold in the hundred meter dash and no metal is a tenth of a second or maybe hundreds of a second. So with world-class athletes, that's the difference. We can no longer have whole numbers, seven, eight, nine, or ten on a scale of one to ten. We have got to bring decimal points in. I'm sorry. That's, we have to have a better way to differentiate because every ten dunk or fifty dunk with five judges is not the same. It's not created equal. We need a way to differentiate between the best of the best. So I say you go seven, seven point five, eight, eight point five, nine, nine point five, ten. At the least you need to do that. So there's more differentiation or you can just have decimal points period. Eight point one, eight point seven, eight point five, whatever you want to give it, eight point eight, but they need to add decimal points to the dunk contest because it is just, these guys are all so good that you have to have a way to differentiate. You heard it here first on In the Zone, write Adam Silver, write your favorite team, let them know, oh, Broussard had a great idea for the dunk contest judging and maybe, just maybe, it'll be implemented. I'm out. Aaron Gordon, props. All right, Kenya, man. Welcome to In the Zone. Kenya Martin. We're here in LA. Obviously, the All-Star game is coming up this weekend. You were an All-Star in 2004. And I just want to ask you, what is it like? I mean, you want to make the NBA, you obviously want to play the best you can. What is it like to be chosen for the All-Star team? I know it is like to be chosen and I know it is like to be snubbed, you know what I'm saying? So it's a great feeling, man. You see the game before you get in the league, you know what I'm saying? You see the fun and that's what the fans get to vote on and other coaches get to vote on as well. But to be an All-Star in this league, it's a great feeling, especially when you're young and the hard work that you've put in pays off. So it was a great feeling for me, making it in 2004. I should have made it in 03. I was going to ask you, how many years you think you should have made it? Definitely in 03. We were first in the conference. The numbers were pretty much the same. Yes, same numbers. The game was in Atlanta. They needed to put somebody from Atlanta on the team, so they pushed Sharif on the team. Okay, okay. If I do it right, I mean. Like, not to take nothing against him. He was playing well, but their team wasn't doing well. We got J.K. at the end, so I thought we should have had, you know what I'm saying, a couple guys. So the next year we got a couple guys in and we thought we should have had three guys in, you know what I'm saying? We thought RJ should have made it as well. You know, so it's like one of them things. But it was a great feeling, man. I didn't know what to expect going into the game. So you talk to the guys, listen to the locker room guys that's been there before, and they told them just go out and play. Go out and have fun, enjoy the moment, but just go out and play. That's what I did. A lot of people criticized Austin. I think the last few years, it's been a joke. Yeah, yeah. I mean, when you played in 03, 04, I mean, how competitive was it? It was competitive for most of the game and it raved up, I'm saying the fourth quarter. Like God trying to go get that W, you know, but it was competitive throughout. It wasn't a whole lot of easy ideas now. Just dunk after dunk after dunk after dunk after dunk after dunk. There was other stuff that you had to do then, but no, they've made it into just a glorified pickup game. It's terrible. You know, so I think the money incentive this year, 100,000 for the winners, 25 for the losers. I think that you do think, because obviously y'all making a lot of money anyway. Still, still though, listen, you ain't turning down nothing like that. Trust me. Like somebody willing to give you an extra 100,000. So the winners get 100 and losers 25. What y'all get? Did y'all get anything? I don't remember what it was. But it wasn't like this. But now then I think if we would have won it, I think I had a shot at MVP because I played well. How many do you have? Like 17 or something like that. And then it wasn't too far off the whoever had the most of that game, you know what I'm saying? So had my point guard there with me, you know, so he made sure I got some easy ones. It was fun, man. It was a great experience. It was here in LA, you know, so it was great. I had a good time off the court experience, everything that went on, all the festivities, you know, so it was a great time. What is it like? Because I actually feel like there's so much going on all-star weekend that by the time the game comes around, it's almost like an afterthought, at least for us. Yeah, because guys are burnt out, especially if you have a lot of obligations, man. Like, all the engagements, going here to speak on this, going to visit this, going to do that. Yeah, it can get tiring. That's why some guys, like, they cool not coming. You know, even if they've been at all-star for years, and there's one like this year with CP, he probably like, I want to be there, but I get to break, you know what I'm saying? So, no, but it's six or one-half dozen other time, you know what I'm saying? But some guys, like you said, by Sunday, if fans, if you've been to jam session, the dunk contest, the three-point, the rookie challenge, you know, that by the all-star game coming, partying, by the time the game comes, you're like, I'm bruh. You want to buy these tickets or you want these tickets to go? You know, it's just one of them situations, man, where it could be a lot on everybody. But if you haven't experienced it, then it's definitely an experience that you should have, you know what I'm saying? What do you think, you said now it's a joke. Why do you think it's become what it has? I think it's the same thing as the Pro Bowl, you know, I think. Well, Pro Bowl at least don't get hurt. Yeah, but still, but I just think they look at it as a fun game. You know, it's not, they don't look at it as it should be competitive because it doesn't mean it's not going on our record. You know, we're not getting game check for it, so to speak, you know what I'm saying? So I guess it's just one of them situations where it's, like I said, it's become a glorified pickup game. You know, guys chasing the MVP, guys going out and trying to break the previous scoring record or three-point rail, you know what I'm saying? So I think all that goes on and the way the game is wide open right now is easy. So many threes. So many threes and you got guys like Katie and Steph and James that could, you know what I'm saying? They scored that alarming rate. You know, they're going to score 30 on a quarter. And especially in that game, because there ain't no defense. You know, so I think guys want to get that MVP and game wide open now and lack of defense during the regular season. You think there's more lack of, like the defense isn't as good now? I look at the scoring increases, it's just because they shoot and hitting more threes. That too. But you think the Diaz isn't as good? Just because for one guy's scare, like the NBA, like the rule change has made the game soft. Not the players, the rules, the rules have made the, you know what I'm saying? So it's wide open now. You can't touch guys, you can't hand check, freedom of movement, you can't do this. And they shoot more threes. So now it's going to be more scoring than guys like no hard fouls. You guys lay up to level, wide open dunk after wide open dunk, guys going through the pain, nobody contesting them. Like, so all of it. So it's the defense of death. But you have, you still have defensive minded coaches and some solid defensive teams, San Antonio, the Golden States. I know Tom Timberdowe mindset is the defense, but it's guys not there yet. You know what I'm saying? It's guys not there yet, but you have certain guys that that's what they believe in still. And those are the successful teams, I think. But now, yeah, I just think the rule change, man, has made the game soft and lack of defense goes into that. You know, guys scared the hard foul, guys don't want to get, it's just, it's a bunch of. You should get it flagrant too. Yeah, you know what I'm saying? Yeah, all of that. So guys trying to stay on the court now and all of the freedom of movement rules and all of that plays a factor in the bad defensive team. I know you were traded to Denver, but it was kind of, it was a signing trade. Yeah. So you, you made a decision basically to go there as a free agent. Yeah. Well, no, they made the decision for them. Because they couldn't match the deal. No, they didn't offer nothing. So they did. Did they do the front load the deal? No, no, no, no, no, no. So they did. But Jersey never offered me a contract. Period. I turned down after my third year, they offered me six for 66. Okay. I turned it down. Because I was supposed to, I thought I was an all star where they was passing that money I didn't. They just gave J. Kid 105 or whatever it was on 104. Okay. But big part of this. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm saying like we, somebody got to catch those alley-o's. Like on both sides of the ball, like this don't go without me. Yeah. Yeah. You know what? I'm going to ride it out. So I turned down to 66, like 11 a million a year. It's great money. Don't give me, I'm not blowing my nose, thumbing my nose at it's great money. But I turned it down. I'm like, you know, I'm going to play it out. So I went into that year and I made the all-star team. So I had that. I'm an all-star now. So now what y'all going to do? We're not going to call you. That's what we're going to do. So it was like that? No call. Dang. No call. So what they say after, how they explain what, what they did? Nothing. They couldn't. It was Bruce Ratner. He was the majority owner. So he just didn't want to pay. It was him. So the front office would have everybody because it was at Rod's. Rod, man, Rod throwing wife, cried, man. When I left, they lost half of their season ticket holders. Wow. That was the different look. Just didn't get back to the finals after that. At all. Ain't been nowhere near it. So now it was just, it's decisions that's made. So I made the decision then, like, so I called J.K.O., like, yo, man, like, they ain't off of me, nothing. I ain't heard from him. He like, I love playing with you, man, but you got to do what you got to do. So he understood. It wasn't like, you like, yo, man. Yeah. Like I would like, listen, if they were off of me, 80, I'd stay. You got 90 over how many years was it? Seven. Seven years, 90. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? So if they off of me, 80, I'd stay. So after you got the offer from Denver, did you, you still didn't talk to them? No, no, nothing. So y'all can either let them go for nothing or get some back. That's why they didn't sign the trade. So to maximize the dollar to sign and trade, I signed for seven years. That's his history. How tough was that to move on? Oh, it was, it was, yeah, you number one pick somewhere. You team in the basement when you get there, make it two straight finals. You're all star. You're like, I'm gonna be here for a while. I had just bought a new house in my house for a year, not even a year. So no, it was some situations, man. Like you're like, wow. Then then I realized like, it's cut through. It's a business. So that's when you knew? Yeah, yeah, early on, I was in 26, whatever it was. And I'm like, oh yeah, these people don't care, no matter what you're doing on the court. I thought basketball was like, we winning. Like we doing well, like they showed me right then and there, that it wasn't about nothing, nothing more, but making money for them. Well, you had, I mean, you played with some great point guards, J-Kid, Chauncey, Andre Miller. Andre Miller, is he, you put him with them? He's underrated. I think he's underrated as a point guard. He don't get the accolades and stuff like J-Kid and Chauncey guy, because they won championships and numbers and all that. But you know, Andre was a good, I like Andre. Who you feel was the best point guard you played with? Not AI. I know he's the best player. Like J-Kid, man. But me and Chauncey got a rapport, like with me and J-Kid first, got on the team together, we didn't talk about how we were going to play, how we was going to alibes and defensively, our intensity and all that. We didn't talk about that. We just went out and did it. It just happened. Just did it. We was on the same accord and went out and played. Same thing with me and Chauncey. Chauncey came, it was like, it was the same mindset. Okay. So we're going to the field, we're going to play hard, we're going to be, I'm going to take the game through, we're going to talk it. Just, it worked. Yeah. You know, so I think when you have guys that, that when there's one goal and that's winning by any means, then it works. You know, you don't have to talk about it. You go out and you do your job. And I think that's what me and J-Kid did well together. And that's what me and Chauncey did well together. We go out and we understand the game. We understand time, score, situations, and everything that goes on with the game. You know, it'll be things that I'll be watching the game that Chauncey's doing on the countdown thing. I'll watch the game and I'll think something and he'll say it. At the break. You know, like, yeah, like before, I'm thinking why? And he'll say it. And I'll text him, man, thank you. And he already know what I'm talking about. Like just like on our pick and roll thing when he was in Denver, he'll come down, we didn't talk about it. He'll come down here this, I'll come down here this, I know, like it was just, I know what you need. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? I know you just ain't smacking yourself because you like, no, you don't screen here. You know what I'm saying? I know that already. So it was just some of those things. So he didn't even have to say when I smack my leg. Yeah, no, I know what that is. Are you walking by? I know what you're trying to do. You're trying to get him low. All right, I'll wait. I'll wait. That's just knowing the game, being basketball savvy and knowing what I'm saying. That's like a lot of that is. Now Chauncey, correct me if I'm wrong, he was real vocal on the court. Yes. And J-Kid, I heard was not vocal. Not so much. So how was it? Because one of them, somebody was telling me, like J-Kid, he was better just running up and down. Just playing basketball. Because in the half court, he didn't talk a lot. So he wasn't, you know, his strength was more. Yeah, offensively, yeah. But defensively, he was all over. He didn't have to talk really. He did when it needed to be like backscreens, like all that stuff. But now, like, you knew, like, J-Kid could close out over here. They swing it. He going to tag, get through his man. Like, he's a helper. That's what he does. Like me, I'm vocal. And I'm doing both. I'm vocal and I'm all over the place. Were you kind of the vocal leader those next things? Yeah. Yeah, I think so. Because that's just me. That's my personality. Like, I was, young guy came in and I had a bunch of vets, you know what I'm saying? So I didn't really have to be my rookie year. But then we started winning and all that. I just went back to what I did at Cincinnati. I was a leader then. So I just went back to that. And after that year, it just continued. You know, I was myself. You know, I would just let it, because I think basketball. I know the game. It was not coming from a bad place. I might give you a few, you know what I'm saying? Four letter words here and there, you know what I'm saying? But nah, it's like I know the game and I know what I'm talking about. Well, you were, we were on Undisputed earlier. And this is a little different. You talking about the pecking order in the league and stuff with players. On teams, as media, we always look at it as so and so's team. Or he's the first option. He's the second option. He's third with it. How much do players put into that? How much do players really look at and understand a pecking order on the team? It's, well, I never experienced it being talked about. It's just, you get how certain guys are being treated. It's how much money you're making. A lot of it is how much money. So it's not based from a player standpoint. It's not so much, he's our best player. He should be number one. Not at all. Really? Certain situations, yeah. Like you knew Mellow. Yeah, like come in. Like he was going to be the score. We knew that, you know what I'm saying? Like, but you didn't look like Mellow. Like I was like, I was the leader of that team. Okay, you were the lead. Yeah, Mellow was leading the score. He did all that. I looked at myself as the leader of that team. Okay. And he was cool, because he ain't gonna have vocal like that. Yeah, that's not who he is. Mellow, he'll go out and play. I'ma go out and my number's gonna speak for itself. So you didn't feel like this is Mellow's team? Not at all. You felt like we a team or did you feel like it was your team? No, we a team. We're in this together. Like I'm not more important than you. You ain't more important than me. You might average more points than me. Like, skill. You might average more points than me. Mellow's can might average more rebounds or whatever the case may be. But when it's all said and done, everybody know who they can turn to. Everybody around there, that's big homie. Yeah, yeah. And then like that's who he is. Like when it's time to get down and to it, you know where I'm at. You know where to find me. You know what I'm about. You know, when the trenches together. I got your back, your front, your side. I'm like, I'm your team and I'm your guy. You know, and I'll let you know that. You know what I'm saying? Like, Mellow just going to go out and hoop, which no problem with that. Like no problem of guys that go out in silence, that go out and do their job. I'm going to give you this work. I'm going to laugh at you. Like Mellow do school and you laugh at you going back down the court. You know what I'm saying? Me, I'm going to get in your face. Yeah, I'm going to be on the bench. All right, all right, all right, all right. Like that's me. You know what I'm saying? So, but like I said, I looked at myself when things got tough during the timeouts and some need to be said. I said it. When the locker room, some need to be said. I said it. We're in the meeting. Some need to be said. I said it. I wasn't waiting on the next person to do it or the coach to do it or the coach. No need to be done. I said, I'm going to do it. So when you see, because I'm sure this was the case. And it's portrayed as Mellow's team. Does it not that you mad at Mellow, but does it ever bother you that it could be any team? We always portray it as somebody's team, whoever's really pretty much probably the lead in school. Yeah, that's where it goes. Does that ever mess with players? Because when you know this ain't really the reality. Some guys in Mike, if they're not comfortable, they ain't secure. Like I didn't need to go tell nobody. It's my team. My team. The voice gets deeper if it's Mellow's team. You know what I'm saying? No, I don't need to do all that. But everybody in that locker room knew. You know what I'm saying? Like some guys feel a certain way. Some guys need that, like to hear that. Some guys, they, you know what it is. It's his team. But like I said, more than the time is not, it's guys who lead the team to score and is looked at as that guy. Whether they want it like Kawai is not that. He's not that. It's not that. Yeah, yeah, that's not it. But don't give you this work. So who else? So you got to get that from somewhere else. Then it can't be pop all the time. You know, Lamarca Sauget, I don't think he's that. Can't be pop all the time. You know what I'm saying? So each team, like LeBron is a voice, the best player, and he's the voice. You know what I'm saying? So it just goes that way sometimes. Probably Draymond. Draymond. He's probably not the best player on the team, but he's Draymond or Andre Godalla. Somebody, you know what I'm saying? Somebody else. You know, so you look at it as like, it ain't always the guy who's leading the team and scoring that people look to when things get tough. You know, we need a bucket eye. Here you go. But other things going on, there'd be other guys at times. But some situation is that guy that's leading the team and scoring and is the voice. Like you got Kobe or bronze and like Michael Jordan and the situation with Charles Barkley and situations like that. Well, they the guy, they the outspoken guy as well. You know, but that's not all the time. Who do you think, who do you watch today and say, oh, that's a defender? Draymond. That's a good, okay. Clay. Yeah, Clay don't get enough credit for his defense. What, man? He moved them puppies. Listen, it ain't tough to stay in front of Kyrie. Boy did a hell of a job. Yeah. But he got it off, but still helped. That boy moved them feet, man. Kawai. I like Jimmy Butler. I like Avery Bradley. Showed a clip the other day, Young Boy and Phoenix. Jackson. Josh Jackson. Showed a clip of him moving them puppies. Okay. And like, I like that. Like, no, like I used to, like most bigs, guys with bigs in league, like they try to stay out of switches. Pick and roll. Yeah. Switch. You ain't mind getting on the ground. Switch. A-I-C-P, Kobe, you name it. I want it. Steve France. You name it, man. I want it. Switch. So then y'all switch again back here. So you ain't stuck on the big, but switch. Like we playing the oil and the plow. Like they doing everything in their power to put Nate Nate in the pick and roll. Keep him out of it. Like, no. I want, it's personal. And you score on me, it's personal. Like I'm trying to, my best not, like it took, it was a learning experience for me to take, like, to concede two points. So you mean some people. Like if I'm in foul, if I get my first foul early. Yeah, yeah. I gotta give over Lee up. Like that's tough for me. I'm like, I don't want you to score. And players value that way more than the media. Yeah. Like the players in the league know what you're talking about. Yeah, I'm like, yeah, like all that, like, oh. Like I tell my son that now. Because if you get one early, you gotta back off. And he can't. So he has the approach to defense that you. Yeah. Like he wants to stop you. It's personal. Because I'm telling him that there's nothing more intimidating than sports when you can't score. You know, there's nothing more intimidating in any sport when you can't score. Speaking of LeBron, obviously everybody's speculating what he should do. I mean, I'm sure you feel like, look, he can do whatever he wants. But do you think staying Cleveland, staying to East? I think so. I don't know why. How you spoke about the All-Star thing, right? And the votes and selections and all that. I'm looking at the, on the bigger stage, the finals. He's going right now for his eighth straight trip to the finals. In the West, you might, second round, you're playing San Antonio. Yeah. That would have only been three trips. Yeah, you know what I'm saying? So it's like, do you risk that? Because you're playing to be the most decorated NBA champion player of all time. That's what you're shooting for. It's going to be tough, but you've got goals and aspirations for the past. Kobe, Michael, Jordan, those guys. You doing that in the West? Probably not. But he's, you got to say, this is a breeze. This is a breeze. So he gets a lot of, he's three and five in the finals. He gets a lot of flack from basically a losing record in the finals. Being in the East, playing against less of competition. Yup. And getting there and losing. It's tough. So do you think, I don't know how he looks at it, but some people, Chris Carter, who's on our first things first. Yeah. He says LeBron is better off going West and not even reaching the finals, rather than being in the East and keep going back but keep losing. What's your thought? Like if he's three and seven, three and eight in the finals or whatever. You should get yourself a chance. That's what I feel. And that's impressive to keep getting there too. Like you got yourself a chance. Like, of course you want to sprinkle some wins and if you want to keep going and losing like the Bills. You know what I'm saying? Like, you know, like that ain't no fun in that. You know what I'm saying? But like he, he got something to lean on. He got three. Of course you like, you want to bend more, but like it's, look at like, but you're going to the West and it might not be, but he might be up for that challenge. There might be a challenge over here. There might be a goal that he's, he's probably set every other goal. I'm, he's in, accomplished every other goal he has set so far. So there might be another goal. You know what I'm saying? Go out and I'm saying, West and conference team to the finals. That might be, never know, but it's going to be tough. You know what I'm saying? Wherever you go, it's tough to win a championship as he knows. You think, I know you like the Cleveland trades at the deadline. Do you think they can get to a point where they can compete with Golden State? They get better defensively. Yes. And they got, they look like these dudes can be good defenders because they're athletic. They younger. They got guys that's going to buy in or whatever is going on. They know they ain't comfortable and they bank account. True. They trying to get what LeBron has already a couple of guys have on that team, which is a championship. They trying to get that. So you're going to do whatever, whatever they ask of you, you're going to do. So I think them making that move was great. But changing half of the roster, great. People, Cleveland probably was like, I don't know, but they did what's best for organization in order to try to keep the king, keep the king happy. And they were, you know what I'm saying? They got to keep him happy. And you saw the smile on his face game one. LeBron happy. So that's all that mattered then. Now, another thing LeBron, LeBron is not shy about, we need more help. We need more help. Or the implication when, like as a free aid, like I might leave to get better teammates, right? What does that do to the locker room? Does that negatively, can that negatively impact guys when the feeling is he might leave because we not good enough or he's saying we need better teammates or what? Guys got to look in the mirror then I think. Okay. So you don't put that, that's not LeBron's problem. No, it's on management. You know, it's on the guys that's in there. Like I need to get better. You don't think I'm good enough. I don't think like people look at stuff like that as bad. There's nothing wrong with pressure. He putting pressure on management. He putting pressure on his teammates. He putting pressure on the coaches. We got to be at the top of our game all the time. Or you see what happened. Taking my act to South Beach. You know what I'm saying? Like, that's right. Like just so, yeah, like just think like he's doing all he can before he left. Yeah. But before LeBron left cleaning the first time, he was doing all he could to make it to the finals, getting swept. All, it's a matter of, he's young. All that's on him. But he didn't bring it, bring it, bring it. It becomes too much. You know, it becomes too much. So he didn't get criticized for going to the mic. I'm like, oh, you're going to join. Oh, really? Which, what do you think of that? And now it's not just him. Everybody's doing it now. Yeah, everybody. It's been going on. I'm saying like, it's been going on. He's just because he was the biggest name to ever do it. You know, so of course people criticized him. Cleveland people made it a thing. You know what I'm saying? So yeah, they were hurt. They wanted, they got to stay home, which we get. But like at the end of the day, he's a grown man. You can make whatever decision you want for himself and his family. And like y'all didn't tell him when he decided to come back. You know what? Stay in my hand. They was all forgotten. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, no, stay in my hand. We don't need you. We don't want a championship ever. No, y'all didn't say none of that. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? So no, it's like he could demand make whatever decision he want at the end of the day. Whatever he see benefiting him. And whoever don't like it. And the guy's in the locker room. If you feel that way he's going to leave, then well, maybe I need to help my game. If he does leave, I'm in position to. Yeah, right. So it could, it's. It'll help you either way. You can open it up and fold it. I have many different ways you want to fold it, but ultimately it's what you're going to show up and do your job. If you're the GM, what players can I get in here? Presidents, what am I picking the right pieces? Am I getting the right coach? Am I the right staff? Am I doing my job? And that's what LeBron doing. It ain't a secret that he holds everybody in that organization feed to the fire, which I don't look. Yeah, that's a good thing. Are we competing for championships or not? At the end of the day? Like, and if we not, then I don't want to be here. If we don't, if we don't make any moves, this trade deadline, I'm out. So guess what they do? They make some moves. More than that. After team. You know, just imagine, man. Not saying that's conversation. And they're better for it to your point. And not saying that's conversation we had that he had, or he did, but they looked at the situation that right now we're not good enough to compete. We ain't even good enough to keep competing our own conference right now as we look at it. That's a good angle, yeah. You got to shake this thing. And without him, whether it was he wasn't playing as well, sulking, but without that, and whatever messages he sent to the front office, they might not do all that. You know, they might have just rolled it out. Stayed the course. Like, oh, we've been here in the previous two seasons where we didn't play well at stretches. Still won, won, lost one. That's a good point. So, all right, let's roll it out and let's see how it goes for the rest of the season. But now, it's a different dynamic now. It's a different scenario where he only signed it for one year, or he got a playoff for this year, and like all this is going on, you know what I'm saying? So all these conversations have to be had. By management, you know. The player's probably not speaking about it as much, but if you're management, you got to be talking about this. Like, man, we got to, what can we listen to, right? You know, trying to keep them happy, trying to keep them around here, right? Some people might be like, ah, but Jordan in the room going to be like, what we got to do to make, if he in the room, what we got to do to make him happy? If he not in the room, what we got to do to make him happy? You know what I'm saying? So now, I just look at the situation where it's like, I get it, man. We're trying to win or not. We're not just out here collecting checks. If we win, we're going to do that anyway. And more, you know what I'm saying? We're going to, so I look at it, man, you got to be able to compete and you got to put your guys in the best situation possible. I've always been a believer in putting the best, getting the best 15 guys that you can help us win. Well, you, speaking, I mean, front office, you were the captain of the Big Three Trilogy, the champions. How competitive is the Big Three? It's very competitive. I think it's going to get better. You got more guys who've played against each other for years. What new players coming in this year, do you know? That's signed on as co-captains already, each team could get a third captain. So it's a captain, three co-captains basically, whatever, how you want to classify. So I know Carlos Boos is signed on already to Ghost Ballers with Mike Bibby and Ricky Davis. He's on that team. Glenn Davis, big baby signed with, I think, the power team, which is Catino and Corey McGuetti. Drew Gooden signed on with Threes Company, which is a coach by AI and him and DeMar Johnson. So AI is still going to coach. He's not going to play. Nate Robinson and, I think, Rashid Wally signed on with Trot State, which is a Jermaine O'Neill's team. So you got a few other guys that's going to be in the draft pool that's played a lot. Marquis Daniels, Josh Powell, just names of people, just names of top. But it's going to be fun and even more competitive this year. You keep in touch with Jake Kidd, and have you talked to him about trying to play, maybe getting into the big three? No. Jake Kidd, that helper, played some serious. Jake Kidd can't play no basketball. He done play. I can't see them playing after having that done. Yeah, he had hip room. I can't even do it. Yeah, definitely. Yeah, that's tough. I wouldn't think Jake Kidd would want to play in this. I can't see Kobe. So you don't see that. No, why not, Kobe? I just can't see him in this, man. KG, you need that? He said he's not. We're pressuring him. Yeah, yeah. We're definitely pressing KG. I don't think so. Is Pierce playing? You know? He's not going to play this year. He's probably next year. Unless he changes mind, get bored right now. Need to release some energy and all that. Come on. Yeah, it's fun, man. Like I tell everybody, man, it's competitive. It's fun. I'm quitting Richardson. Call me the other day and ask me about it. You know, so you got guys who, man, they came out to see it. Like when it was near their city or in their city, came out to see it. Yeah. Y'all was pretty much sold out just about everywhere. Yeah, man. There was some smaller venues. Like we went to Tulsa, of course, with respect to South Lexington, things like that. But Dallas was great. New York, Chicago, some of the bigger cities. Like who was it? The people came out to support it. All right, man. Cool. I'm looking forward to it. Y'all defending again? Oh, we can listen, man. We're going to do this thing. I told them all season long last year, trilogy. Once again, trilogy. All right. You heard it here first on In the Zone. Great stuff, man. As always, you always bring it. Good to see you. Appreciate it, brother. All right. As always, got my man Jay Mack, Jason McIntyre. What's happening, brother? Excellent day, Chris. Excellent day. Wonderful week. Just very excited to be here. All right. All right. I'm excited to have you. This is another episode of Knock Down Jay. I'm being nice to you. Yeah. I'm usually critical. It's Valentine's Day. Come on. It's Valentine's Day. I'm dressed up. Yeah, you look sharp, man. All Star Break is here. You look sharp. Come on. All right. I like that better than the muscle shirts and your son's little pajama top or whatever you had on a couple of weeks ago. But anyway, you got some good topics for him. I do. I do. Let's start right here. All right. Your Cleveland Cavaliers basically got a new team at the trade deadline. Looking good, too. You know who else looks good? LeBron James. In the last four games since he got win to the trade, right? The Minnesota game. Then there was the Atlanta game. And then the two games with Clarkson and the new unit. LeBron's averaging 30, 13, and 9. 30. 30 points. 30 points. He has rejuvenated. We're seeing a new locked in LeBron. Chris, I believe LeBron is the new favorite to win the MVP award this season. I know you've been on the James Harden train for a while. Harden's playing tremendous, excellent. I believe LeBron will win the MVP this season. But you say right now he's the front runner. Yeah. Projecting ahead. How in the world could you say he's the front, off those four games? We're seeing a new LeBron James, Chris. Okay. 1,000 percent new. He's playing fantastic. All right. He is excited to be going on to the court now as opposed to when Isaiah Thomas and Derek Rose and these guys were there. It's a new LeBron. Is it the MVP for the entire season or just post-all star bracket? I believe the award is for the entire season. You're a voter, correct? Yeah, I'm a voter. So it's for the full season. So LeBron just had one of the worst months of his career. January, yeah. Which by his standards was bad. It was statistically it wasn't that bad. 23.7 to 67 rebounds, 51 percent shooting. But since Christmas, so basically for a month straight. Since that year's loss on Christmas Day. He was the worst in the NBA in real plus minds. 518 out of 518 players. Now, I agree with you that I think he's going to have a tremendous second half of the season. And do you remember a few weeks ago I did my MVP? You know, I forgot. Who did you have? Front runners right now. I had LeBron number one. But here's why. Because James Harden had just gotten hurt. Was out a few games. And the projection was that he would be out for four to six weeks. So that's basically missing 20 some odd games. So I was thinking, okay, if Harden misses 20 some odd games, you're not going to be MVP doing that. Only one person in history since the NBA, NBA merger has done that. Miss more than 11 games and actually been MVP. So that was why I had LeBron ahead of Harden. But now that Harden came back early, only miss seven games. You mentioned LeBron average in 30 over the last four. Harden's average in 31 for the entire season. It's been a good run for James Harden. Harden is leading the league. Hold on, leading the league in scoring. Yes. Second in assist. One ahead of LeBron. And let me just give you this. James Harden is the anchor. And I know Chris Paul's been great, but Chris Paul's missed 18 games. 18 games. All right. So what James Harden has played without him for those games. James Harden is orchestrating the most efficient, the best offense to date in NBA history. They're a very good note. Let me tell you the other four in the top five. Second, the Los Angeles Lakers, the Showtime Lakers. Magic, baby. Magic, Kareem James Werder. Byron Scott. Yes. Third, the 19th or 2016-17 Golden State Warriors. One of the greatest teams in NBA history. Yes, Steph Curry. Kevin Durant. Clay Thompson, Draymond Green. Fourth, the 1992 Chicago Bulls of Michael Jordan and Scottie Pippen. And a watered-down NBA. Whatever. It was the best players in the world at the time. That's all I know. Fifth, the Larry Bird 1988-87-88 Boston Celtics. And James Harden is orchestrating an offense with Eric Gordon, Clint Capella, Trevor Ariza, and Chris Paul for all but 18 games. That is ahead of that group. You forgot who? Mike D'Antoni. It's his sister. Yeah, that's right. Any other four teams I mentioned, were any of them coached by Mike D'Antoni? I don't believe so. Okay, then just let's just X out that point he just made. Mike D'Antoni doesn't matter, okay. No, well, his other offenses didn't get in the top five. Okay, you want to expand it to top five? Steve Nash, Glamari Stadimar, Sean Marion didn't put it in the top five. It's not top five. We don't know are they seven? But anyway, continue. I don't know what they are. They are in the top five. Continue with your stats. This is a no-brainer. If James Harden avoids injury or serious injury and continues to play at this pace, there's virtually nothing LeBron James can do over the second half to put him ahead of James Harden. If Harden gets hurt, if Harden falls off and LeBron just plays tremendously, maybe. But right now, it is far and away, far and away. James Harden as the MVP. Very good case. I applaud you for that. Well done. Do you remember what happened last year? You actually got something else to say? Yeah, I do. I do. Do you remember last year, the MVP voters were wowed by Russell Westbrook's stats? He did win. Amazing. He did win. Guide average, a triple-double in 40 years? 50 years? I mean, it was unbelievable. They were wowed by that. And then what happened in the first round of the playoffs? It's a regular season. That doesn't matter. That doesn't matter. Don't even bring up the playoffs. Okay, that's fair. Don't even bring up the playoffs. That's fair. It's a regular season award. The first round of the playoffs comes. Russell Westbrook jacks up shots. They get bounced. Just stop. That's fair. And guess what happened? All the voters watched LeBron James eviscerate the East. Totally dismantle the Raptors and everybody. And they said, man, we got hoodwinked. We fell victim. No, nobody said that. All the voters said, dang, we fell victim to fall in for the numbers. Russell Westbrook, he was great. But man, look at LeBron. He's the best player in the league. That's what they said. They're going to say it again. Because yes, James Harden, no doubt his numbers have been tremendous. Rockets are the most efficient offense in the league. They are outstanding. But the best player this season, LeBron was for the first third. Then you admitted that LeBron was number one. He was the leader. No, I didn't admit that. You said that. I said because James Harden was projected to miss 20-something games. At the one-third checkpoint, LeBron was number one. That's what you said. Because James Harden was projected to miss 20-something. James Harden takes over from Christmas to now. And LeBron is going to finish strong over the final 25 games and take the award. Look, first of all. He's 33, by the way. I'm a voter. Putting up a C number. I'm a voter. And I know many of the voters. Nobody was saying that. Oh, they all came out like that. You act like that's the first time. Nobody said Russell Westbrook was better than LeBron James. If we just say who's the best player in the league, it's LeBron James. Yes, I had Harden. So we know. I had Harden as the MVP last year. I didn't have a ballot because Bouchard won't get me on the list. But I had Harden number one in the MVP. Continue, sir. Should we? It's not who's the best player in the league. If that's the case, let's just give out the award before the season starts. To Kevin Durant this year. We know it's LeBron James. You act like last year was the first time an MVP winner had struggled or lost in the playoffs. Dirk Nowitzki had done it. Nobody was saying, oh, Dirk should know won the award. It's a regular season award. Okay. Plenty of times an MVP loses early in the playoffs and nobody was expecting Oakley C to win in the playoffs. They were the lower seed. Who they lose to? The Houston Rockets. James Harden in the Rockets, yes. They were supposed to. People would have been shocked if they had beaten the Rockets. MVP couldn't get by the Rockets. Oof. So is that all you got? I mean, because I'm ready to go to Josh on the scoreboard. Look, look, look. I mean, I know Josh is with Melanie Morley. We have to go. He's got a new team. Houston. Have you seen Jordan Clarkson? Have you seen the celebrations? I'm loving it. I am loving it. Houston has the second best record in the NBA. Cleveland is ranked third in, yeah, they're half game behind Golden State. Cleveland's third in the Eastern Conference. For now. You don't erase that. It's not the MVP of April, April and March. It's the MVP of the entire season. Body of work matters. Yes, it matters. Let's go to the scorecard. I mean, I, if, if. Feeling confident here, people. Josh, I, look. Look, he's like, he's like, if you go back a tire, we're going to replace you. See, that's what I'm up against, folks. LeBron is the best player in the world. I know, no argument there. That's why. But you're going to. He's not going to win. That's why he's not going to win the award, is because he took off 25 games. He didn't flex his muscle. What are the criteria you'd want from MVP? Winning record, who's, who has the better record? James Harden, who has the better stats? James Harden in points and assists. And the PR. PR, whatever it is. And he didn't take off two months of the season and let his team suffer so he could get, you know, new personnel. Let's not. I agree that the race is going to be closer. The blocker was toxic. He was ruined by all the clowns. James Harden's love. That's a clear cut favorite. I mean, if you want to go that route, that's a not. We'll agree to disagree, Bruce. No, no. Josh is the final say. Josh is the final say. Take it back. Remember that. I'll take it back. That's not happening. Moving on to. Thank you for being fair, Josh. Thank you. The son of your best friend, LeVar Ball. We're going to talk to Blonzo Ball, if that's good with you. We saw what happened this week. LeVar lobbed a grenade from Lithuania right into the Lakers locker room. Everything went pop. Magic's head exploded. Luke Walton out on the front lines having to answer a question. Lonzo's injured. He's not going to be participating in All-Star Weekend. Convenient. I've had enough of LeVar Ball. I know you could text him and say that. I know you guys are buddies. You're probably going out to dinner tonight. I think we're at the point. Where every month there is a LeVar Ball controversy. He's going after Luke Walton. Isaiah Thomas, you better be ready. He's coming after you. We don't need these headaches. I like Lonzo Ball. I think he would have a great future with the Lakers if his dad would shut his big mouth. But I think the latest comments about I'm going to force these brothers, Jello and Lamello on the team, I think it's over. I think the Lakers should seriously start making calls about training Lonzo Ball. Really? Your thoughts? Well, look, obviously I can't defend what LeVar has said. You're not going to defend your guy? Look. Oh, jeez. It's ridiculous. Okay. You can't defend what he said. I'm going to tell LeVar right now. Jello is not getting drafted. Jello is not getting drafted. And Lamello and Lagello, Leangelo and Lonzo will never be on the same NBA team. Okay. If they, if you are dad set on them playing together, it's going to have to be in Europe for some team that just wants to sell tickets. Or Australia. Or China. Some minor league, I mean seriously. That's, that's just a fact. All right. That's, that's, I'm trying to help. Like that's not happening. Now, where I disagree with you at is that the Lakers need to seriously consider, well, no, I think they need to have a conversation. Magic, Rob, Polinka need to sit down and start considering, look. No, with each other. Okay. And their front office and their, you know, their brain trust and say, look, we have to do something about this because we're not going to put up with this for the next rest of this season or seasons going ahead. Let's stop rest of this season because June is important. We can agree on that. The Lakers have freed up Caproom. They've been rejected for years by big name free agents. Paul, George and LeBron, we don't know if it's going to happen. Okay. The calves have changed everything. We'll see. But they're available. They're going to get a meeting. You don't need this LeVar nonsense, man. Well, where I disagree with you is that they should start calling teams now and seeing what they can get for it. The way I think they should handle it, number one, I think Luke has been great. I think Luke should, you don't want an NBA head coach going back and forth with a parent of a player. That's just not a good look. It would, you think, you say Luke Walden has to answer all these questions about LeVar, but how do you think it would go if he went back at LeVar? It would really keep going on and on and on and on. It's not Luke's job to handle that. His job is to coach the team and get them prepared to win. He doesn't deserve this. No, he doesn't. It's Magic Johnson's job as the president of the team. So what I think they should do is Magic should go, should meet with LeVar and tell them, look, you have got to stop making these controversial comments about the Lakers. It is messing up the locker room. And quite frankly, it's not helping Lanzo. Guys are going to look, I'm Magic Johnson. I know what an NBA locker room is like. You need to be a family. Guys need to be able to confide in you. Guys need to be able to trust you. None of the teammates are going to confide in Lanzo because they think he's going to run back until you record supposed to be the leader. You might say something publicly. And look, I love you. I like what you about. I like that you're trying to start businesses. I like that you love your kids and you're involved in their life. That said, we cannot have this. And if you can, if you make another controversial comment about the Lakers, you can say the Lakers are playing great. I hope they win. I like Kuzma, whatever. If you make another controversial comment, I'm going to trade Lanzo. Okay. You won't have to worry about three years from now. See, Chris, the problem is that taking him away, I will trade him. Rational human beings. You're not dealing with somebody like that. You know what he's going to do? LeVar is going to take this and then go say, oh, they don't want me talking about the Lakers anymore. He's going to make a big to-do about it. You know what, then? Then I'm on the horn. What can I get for Lanzo? Well, I would prefer my route. I do it now. I would prefer my route because guess what? As soon as you start calling around teams, it's going to leak out to the reporters. It's going to get out there. Lakers talking about Lanzo trade. Whoa. LeVar is going to sit up. Say, whoa, big ball of red. Too late. Big ball of red. We need L.A. I'm going to zip it. I'll call Magic and apologize. Well, I think you need to wake up. Too late. I don't want an apology. You got kids, Chris. I want you to just do what's best for your son. You know how you raised your kids in tough moments when they're back talking because it happens. I'm dealing with it sometimes. Being like demanding kids, they need a wake-up call. Grounded for a week. Done. No questions asked. Get out of my face. Wake up. You can't just, all right, let's have a meeting. LeVar is not going to listen. I'm giving you a chance and I'm going to tell you. How many chances is this? When you see the leaks, when you see the leak, no, I haven't given an ultimatum yet. I just trusted you. You made me pancakes. They were good. And you told me you weren't going to be involved in all this. But you didn't listen. You went against it. So you're saying, last chance. Yes, this is it. I don't want any apology when you see the rumors that he's going to Utah or that he's going to Orlando. Don't call me and apologize. Look, you can trade anybody. Somebody would trade for it. The thing is, it's probably going to be lower value. Because I just whipped you. You know that. It's probably going to be lower value. No, it is not doubtable. Or was that supposed to scare me? I love this discussion. I love this discussion. Look, if the Lakers with arguably, and I think actually this is true. It's just popped in my mind. But arguably, the most beloved player in NBA history running the Lakers. Is that fair? I mean, arguably, arguably, the most beloved player in NBA history running the organization. And it's a great organization. The best organization in bat or the glamor franchise of the NBA. They give you the glamor courtside seats. So, yeah, you love them. If they can't silence LeVarba, what do you think that little old average franchise with a no-name GM is going to be able to do? Phoenix Orlando. They embrace that drama. People are talking about them. Oh, nice for a few weeks. No, no, no, no. But when you're still losing and he's talking about, I need to coach the team. They need to get jello and mellow up in here. Franchises that haven't won anything. You think the NBA is a joke? Heaven got to the playoffs. They want to be in the discussion. They haven't won anything. I mean, what is the Orlando Magic one in the last five years? Okay, last five years. Last 10 years. They had. They had one finals appearance. Yeah, and everybody leaves them. Everybody leaves them. Hold on. Look at the Phoenix songs. What have they done in the last five years? Since Steve Nash and them left. Well, now you changed your statement. These are teams that want to be in the discussion. They're owners. The discussion for what? Owners want to be in the discussion. Do you think the NBA is a circus? These teams are trying to win. What a business. Get to the playoffs. Put butts in the seats. Yes, it's a business. Marketing matters. How long is that going to last? Some teams haven't even tasted it. Let's go to the scorecard here. I'm feeling good about this one. Okay, you threw out Phoenix a lot. You didn't say who. Who are they training for? Who are they training for? And if you say it, you're going to be the last in stock of YouTube. Let's just go to the score. No, you're out there. Who's Phoenix training? Who are they going to give up for Lanzo Ball? Phoenix is desperate enough for a star with it quality, Lanzo. Devin Booker's a star. Nobody's paying to see him. A one-dimensional shooting guard. I love Devin Booker. As I've been in all start, yeah. I've seen a lot of Devin Booker. That's one more Dimension Lanzo. Lanzo and the Lakers. Pink Day acquired them from the Cavs, 25-ish, two first round picks. Okay. If Devin Booker can go to Phoenix and say, I'm not going to be signing with you guys when my deal's up in two years. I know, you don't like it. That's fine. Josh, let's go to the scorecard on the Lakers. Should they put Lanzo on the trade block? I'm going to try to ignore everything you just said because you lost right there. But the thing that we keep bringing up is Luke Wall and how he should handle this. I think Luke Wall should know how to deal with a crazy dad. Do you think, right? Maybe he should talk more. If anybody else in the whole world could deal with a crazy NBA dad, maybe Luke Wall should know how to speak up. So you do think he should publicly say something? I think they got to do something to stop talking. Stop with the LeVar nonsense. And to your point earlier. So what gets him to stop? Sending him to Milwaukee, sending him to Phoenix. But not for Devin Booker. Phoenix and Milwaukee. We can get deep into that next week. They're not getting those big market games. If Lanzo's in Phoenix or Orlando or any other... It's because he's in L.A. And because his dad runs his mouth. So should the Lakers put Lanzo on the trade market? He's trying to find a way to give you a win. I say yes, you say no. I'm ignoring the second half. Survey says. He's ignoring all you said, but trying to find a way to give you a win. I think I'm giving you the double. I don't need the charity victory. I don't need the charity victories. Moving on. The NBA Rookie of the Year race is getting exciting. I'm getting a headache now. Yeah, you are. Yeah, I know. I'm like Patrick Beverly just hounding you. Hounding you like he hounded Lanzo on opening night. Rookie of the Year race is getting hot. Ben Simmons has been the leader. I mean, you handed him the award. I believe early November on this podcast was early November. You said Ben Simmons, Rookie of the Year. I think Donovan Mitchell's overtaken him. Donovan Mitchell has led the Jazz to 10 straight wins, shooting 44% from the field, 35% from three, averaging 19 and a half doing unbelievable things as the, and this is key, number one option in Utah. Carrying them. I know Gobert is nice defensively. Joe Ingalls is a good player. Donovan Mitchell's carrying the Jazz in the deep west. They're right outside the playoff spot right now. I would, I'd say Donovan Mitchell has overtaken Ben Simmons. There's still 25 games, but right now I got D. Mitch, number one in Rookie of the Year. Look, Donovan Mitchell is playing fantastic. He has really closed the gap. Closed, oh. And I do think a lot of people probably thinking like you are, and understandably so, because it's neck and neck. But at this point, I still would go with Ben Simmons because it's called the Rookie of the Year award. Not the Rookie of a nice little stretch for your team award. Okay, Rookie of the Year. Ben Simmons is the quarterback of the seven-seated Philadelphia 76ers. Utah with the 10 straight wins. Are they in the playoffs? They're in the West. Are they in the playoffs? They're in the West. They're in the West. Okay. They're in the, no, they're not. The Western Conference has a playoff race. Are they in it? They're in it. They're not in the top eight. They're not, but they're in the pace. If the playoffs ended today, they would not be in. If the season ended today, they're one and a half out, I think. Ben Simmons would still be playing. Okay, now it is a regular season award. Can you add Ben Simmons and Joellen Bied? Because right now, who's the Batman on the 76ers? Who is the Batman on the Showtime Lakers? No, no, no, no, no, no, we're not comparing the Lakers. We're comparing the Jazz. No, because he has a great center and feeds that center. You said Joellen Bied was the second coming of Elijah won. Okay. And Joellen Bied's average was like 23 and 11. Amazing. Joellen Bied is fantastic. He's the best player on that team. Okay. He's the best player on that team. There's no question. So, but Ben Simmons, Ben Simmons is a critical piece to that team. How many three's he made this year? I'm just curious. James is about more than three pointers. How many three pointers has he made this season? I don't know. Not many. Zero. Okay. Five. Zero. Fine. Zip. Zero. He's been taken. Stingy with Denizzi taken. Too many. Not, no. He's taken like a bunch of, like at the end of point nine. He doesn't take many. He's like 0 for 15. Let me read you a few things. Ben Simmons, 16 points a game. Yeah, I love him. 7.7 rebounds. 7.3 assists. Leads the Sixers in assist and steals. Now a great point. And shoots 53% from the floor. Very efficient. Nice. Offensive. And, oh, and defense too. Defense too. Don't, don't, don't, don't get away from the defense. What do you got? He's 31st in the entire league, not among rookies, not among point guards, in real plus minus. 31st, you said real plus. That's a second real plus minus reference in the podcast. And he's 31st in defensive real plus minus. So he's getting it done on both. We're down to the Mitchell in there. 90 second in real plus minus, which isn't horrible for a rookie, but it's a big difference. Ben Simmons, by the way, is. It's three times worse. Is he 21? Than Ben Simmons. I think Ben Simmons is 21. Now, look, Donovan Mitchell is playing great. If he were to win the award, I would not be like, that's crazy. Okay, let me, okay. But right now for me, it's Ben Simmons. If they were redrafting the 2017 NBA draft, Ben Simmons was 20, 16. Does Donovan Mitchell go first overall? Ahead of Fultz, obviously. Ahead of Tatum. Does he go? I don't know if he goes ahead of Tatum. That's how good Mitchell has been. I don't know that he goes ahead of Tatum. He's been great, but I don't know that he goes ahead of Tatum. And, and if you throw Ben Simmons in that draft, he doesn't go ahead of Ben Simmons. Does, does who? I think I need, I need. Donovan Mitchell looks like a young Dwayne Wade. Who, who? I don't know, I don't know. Would you rather have Magic Johnson or Dwayne Wade? In a league where shooting is premium and matters the most. It's a three-point league. Go ask the Warriors and Rockets. I take Donovan Mitchell. And I love Ben Simmons. I like Ben Simmons a lot. Who would you take? Donovan Mitchell or Ben? Right now, I'm taking. If you, if you could draft, and Ben Simmons and Donovan Mitchell were in the same draft, which one would you take? I'm taking Donovan Mitchell right now. Right now. You don't believe me. All right, now I do. What's the right now mean? Well, I mean, he is ascended from where he was at the beginning of the season. Does that, I mean, what's the right now mean? He didn't eat 25 games. Does that mean, really long-term, I think Simmons is going to be better? I mean, Ben Simmons shows up next year with a Kawhi Leonard type three-point shot, and it's game on. He don't have that. He's not going to be good even if he don't get a three-point shot. If he gets a three-point shot, he just lights out for the league. What if he doesn't, is he still not, he's still not going to be good? Why don't the kill fulfill his potential if Ben Simmons doesn't get a three-point shot? But he'll still be great. Yeah. Donovan Mitchell is great. Not Willby. He is great right now. Like Simmons, is it? Simmons is close. If this is splitting hairs, I'm excited for the scorecard here. You created the top three. Yeah, I know. Goldy. Oh, boy, everybody's silent. Oh, my God. See, this is what we do, folks. We pick the topics that are going on. I like Donovan. I'm not, this is, I like Donovan a lot. And I like Simmons a lot. I still would take Ben Simmons' life. It seems pretty similar to the MVP chat we had where there's two guys and the guy's coming on strong at the end. How you finish? How you finish ladders? That's like me. I'm Mr. Fourth Quarter. He's the first quarter. It's the rookie. I'm Mr. Consistence. I'm a closer people. I will finish things. Sorry, Goldy. Go ahead. Right. Okay. You lost on that. I mean, it's a rookie of the year. Donovan struggled at the beginning. Ben has been like this perfect the whole time. If Donovan starts averaging 30 the last 25 games, you know what? I would agree with you. But right now, today, Ben Simmons is the rookie of the year. We're going to have to open this up to the commenters at some point. I don't think you want to know what the commenters say about you generally. Well, they liked me last couple of weeks. It's pretty clear. It must be those muscle shirts you've been wearing. All right. Fun. I'll start chat. Good job. Well, look for Bruce Sard at the parties this week with who? Maverick Carter, LeVar Bowl. Who else out here in LA? You hanging with Jamie Foxx again? Am I going to get invited to any of this stuff? Heck, you know. Now, when I know it's Lakers muscle shirts you be wearing, you change the gear. You might be able to hang. You come out like this and I might take you out. All right. Okay. All right. All right. All right. Get to the store. All right. That was it. Knocked down, Jay. Once again, I knocked him down two out of three times. You're getting better, though. You're getting better even though Josh was searching. I'm going to go. He was digging deep to get you a win. But we hope you enjoyed it. Hope you enjoyed the whole podcast. Kenyan Martin was great. Hey, Mark. Controversial top five slam dunk performances of all time in the dunk contest. How are you going to leave Deep Brown out of there with the pumping up the shoes? Come on. That was nice. It was cute. It was cute. J.R. Ryder, East Bay Funk. Remember that? Yeah. Yeah. Cedric Sabalos dunking with the, and how about this one? How about Terrence Stansbury with the one-footed Statue of Liberty 360? I don't know who he is. One of the most underrated dunks of all time. You weren't watching basketball at that time. All right. So, but we hope you enjoyed it. Go to iTunes podcast, Apple podcast, SoundCloud. Leave us a comment. Leave us five stars. You've been in the zone. We hope you enjoyed it.