 Hi, I'm Dr. Peter Harrabai, D-TechX Chairman, and I'm here to come to the legendary TNO of the Netherlands and talk to an Italian who's the science guru. His name is Andrea Gasparini, and he's going to explain what they're doing that's exciting and exhibited here at the I-D-TechX show, which is quite a buzz at the moment. Over to you, Andrea. Yeah, so morning, everybody. So here we're showing our 3D printed sensor. So the special thing about our sensor is that we are not using conventional material for the sensing elements, but rather continuous carbon fiber, because they also have piezo-resistant properties. Wow. So we can 3D print apart. The piezo-resistant. Exactly. So when we stretch it, for example, I can have a look at this, that I stretch it, and then the signal output in blue, it's actually increasing or decreasing. So here we have also a 3-point banding, so a deflection sensor. So when I press, you can see here, there's a really drastic change in the electrical output upon deflection. So when I press. And then I can have information about the level of banding of my bite. So are we talking about scientific testers with ultra-precision or something that does a good job and is affordable in clothing or something? Exactly. But in clothing, we still haven't purchased that. So we still haven't had that focus, I would say, in textile, where we're looking more into composites. So we would like to install the fibers, which are actually used mostly for enforcement, more on the composites. So this is a sensor that needs to work in harsh conditions, when we have a lot of force that is applied. And this is where they are basically competitive with the other technologies. So this is good for what? What's your dream? Exactly. The structural health monitoring of composite parts. In airplanes, we want to monitor, for example, brackets. If they're breaking, and before they break, we can get information about their structure. So in case there is damage, this is what it's for. So the integral in the structure. Exactly. And you don't see the sensor, they are protected, for example. There's not influence from the atmosphere, the moisture and temperature. More structurally electronics then. Exactly. That's embedded sensors. Yeah. For example, this is that is a pressure sensor. So we can press here, and then as well we see a change in the output resistance as well. So we have these three modes. So pressure, strain, and deflection. So with this, we're already able to cover one of the, at least the largest type of sensor that we can implement into composites. The TNO is quite a big organization now, isn't it? We are about 4,000 employees, distributed within 15 centers in the Netherlands at the moment. So and we're growing. So it's really exciting. Between different multidisciplinary teams on this sort of thing. Exactly. So we are the expert in material science, but we collaborate with the whole center, which is based in Aindhoven, is based on a larger electronic. So they have the knowledge how to help us to make it even more sensitive or even better in terms of integration into much more complex structures, for example. But we really work on material composition, processing, and related to together. Excellent. And you're essentially a research and design center. You're not going into production. Exactly. So that's also something we have to make clear sometimes with the visitors. They come here. We don't sell materials, but definitely we provide solutions, but in the frame of a project together that we can, for example, elaborate compounds. We install, we use them, we probe the properties, but then we need always to engage a material producer like plastics or carbon fiber, and then they're going to scale it up with production and provide that specific grade of material that function for that specific application. So what sort of people are showing an interest if it or is it too early? I mean, is it pulled through, you know, people who want to actually use it, put it in an airframe, or is it people who are materials companies who want something new to offer or what? So, interestingly, and this is something that we're really proud of, we actually have interest from the whole value chain, from the material suppliers that they want to get a higher value of their starting material. And then at the same time, we see the end user, which is, for example, the part manufacturer that wants to have parts that have an extra function, for example. So they can also increase that value of their part, and they can provide a better service, they can provide parts that not only mechanical-enforced, then they perform well, but they also have sensing functionality. So that's a bit our broader range of people interested. That's really powerful. That's really good. That's very exciting. So what are the environmental credentials? Yes, exactly. So what we see, so in the field of application, for example, can be a lot in defense, as a field of application. So in defense, our space, we see interest, we see it can be also orthopedics. You want to have a sensor in your orthosis or in your processes that can give you information about the load that you're applying on a part, and then you can back it up a little bit and modify it. Like we've seen a lot of sensors here on the show, but they're mostly installed on the surface of the processes or on the surface of a part. Here they are inside, so they're fully embedded in the structure, and you can find information about what is happening inside as well. But you're describing a number of ones with uncontrolled disposal. You won't be able to control the disposal. So is it a safe product? Is it biodegradable product? Is it whatever? Where does it fit in in terms of green credentials? Exactly. So definitely, so plastic and this kind of plastic for composite, they're not necessarily biodegradable, but they are recyclable. So instead of using a raisins, like a thermal set, which are not biodegradable and not recyclable here, is that we're only using thermal plastic. So they can be reused exactly. So they are polymers, for example. So instead of being raisins, they are polymers that can be modelled with heat and then they give the shape. And then at the same time, they can be either shredded again and then reprocessed again. What polymers? So it's polyamides, so it can be a high-temperature polymlycol, so P-E-K-K or P-E-K can be polypropylene, polycarbonate. So pretty good environmentally, yeah. I think that we're safe as well. And that's also how the manufacturing still hasn't that big volume of plastic that are produced or reused. So it's an inherently fairly low-cost materials, aren't they? Very, yeah. Sorry, I didn't get the question. Cost of materials? Yeah, so for any manufacturer, actually, the cost of materials is not that relevant because if we make a cake with the cost of perfection, it's more about time, it's more about volume. So the material actually is the least of our problem at the moment. Good, and it's something we've missed out. What's in the cabinet there or should we be looking there? Of course, yeah. It's the other side of the project. So here. Yes, exactly. So there we go. So here we have also our side of activities, which are instead of being based on thermoplastic is protocross linkable raisins. So here we use light to give a shape to a liquid race. And here the field of application, they are mostly medical. So we see in dental, for example, where we process two different materials, that in this case are different colors, because our teeth, they have different gradients in color. They're not always just one monocolor, but we can actually provide an extra functionality, which is in color in this case. Or for example, we see here at the electric antenna, so which is made for application in the radar type of sectors, where we can actually make very complex shape with this specific design. It is really hard to be made by any other means because we have three materials with three different properties that needs to be present at the same time in the same object. So that's an advantage of adding manufacturing compared to incumbent technologies. There are considerable limitations with 3D printing still, aren't there, in terms of some of the things that you would like to print that you can't. But this seems to be in advance here in terms of continuous fiber. Exactly. Yeah, so now continuous fiber can be also coextruded together with the polymer to make structures that are strong, much higher mechanical properties compared to other short fiber field composites. And at the same time, you can make really complex layouts. For example, we have complex shape that are really hard to be made by traditional also composite manufacturing. So very intricate shape, very lightweight structure. They're really hard to be made. And manufacturing has an advantage there. So I don't know how there is in the machine or is this special fiber and someone would wish to license from you to make special fiber for it, for the feedstock. Is it both or them? So I would say it's a relation between the two. So adding manufacturing is always a mix between three things. Softer, how good is a softer in fiber placement? So to create your part, isn't the material property so the specific fiber that can resist, for example, passing through a nozzle, they're stronger. Someone needs to supply a special fiber. So they have really high grade tow. So 1K tow, which are the most expensive one that are normally used for aerospace application. Now we use them here. And at the same time, also the printer. So we need a good printer that enable the processing of continuous fiber, which is not many players at the moment on the field. And the bottom here is just something. Yeah, exactly. So here what we see is that with photo curable raisins, we can, for example, make molds. So very complex molds that we can close as well. We can inject our material. And then the part is going to take the shape, for example, of this lobster. It's just a simple example. But the powerful AM is very powerful in making a really complex shape that can be used on a very frequent cycle, but not for a long time, I would say. Well, thank you very much, Johnny. It was a pleasure for me. Of course. Your virtuosos. We admire you. Well done. Thank you. Thanks a lot. Appreciate it.