 our good afternoon. Really whatever time it is that you're joining the non-profit show. We're so glad that you are here. Today we have Aquanetta Betch joining us and she is director of planned giving and I'm so excited to have you with us Aquanetta to talk to us about planned giving trends that our non-profit community and our leaders need to know. So stay with us as we dive deep into this vast conversation. It's one Julia. I am not very versed in and so I'm looking forward to learning. Good morning to you Julia Patrick CEO of the American Non-profit Academy. So grateful to serve alongside you as the co-host. I'm Jarrett Ransom your non-profit nerd and CEO of the Raven Group. Honored day in and day out to have the ongoing support from our amazing presenting sponsors. Not only are they here for the episodes they're really here for you our viewers our listeners across the globe. 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So you can scan that QR code now and download the app. You'll get a notification that today's live conversation has been uploaded. It literally takes just a couple of hours. We are on it very quick. You can also still find us on streaming broadcast and podcast platforms. So wherever you like to consume your entertainment wherever you want to nerd out in your car if you're walking traveling working out whatever that might look like. So go ahead and tune in and also let us know which shows you're really liking because we have a lot of them and we're not going anywhere. So we're going to keep this up. Back to our guest Aquanada Betz. So excited to have you here with us today. Again for those of you watching and listening Aquanada is the director of planned giving at George Mason University thrilled to have you with us today. Welcome to you. Wow thank you. Thank you. I appreciate being here and looking forward to sharing some trends in plan giving. What's happening out there today? Yeah I'm looking forward to it. I would love if we can do like an umbrella question. What is planned giving because that's something that I feel we might talk about in our careers in our world but we don't really dive deep. So can you just give us an example of what planned giving is or a definition? Sure a definition I recall someone saying that Robert Sharp he is now deceased but he was the guru really a founder in the plan giving space. His simple definition was if it's a plan gift it usually takes three parties to be involved to make the gift happen. Okay there's the donor the organization and then another entity whether it is perhaps an advisor an attorney maybe there's a real estate transaction that needs to happen. So it's more than just the donor and the organization that needs to get involved. Very simplistic but I think that's it in a nutshell. Plan giving also is the type of program that an organization certainly can see sustainability through those sorts of gifts which are oftentimes some of the largest gifts that their supporters will ever make. So it is something that most nonprofits at this point if they don't have a program established they really should start one. It's never too late. You know I think it's too late if you all of a sudden get the call that somebody you know has included your organization and you're like holy moly we didn't know we don't know how to do it and I've been part of those organizations where it's it's shocking because they're oftentimes strings attached. Yes and the thing I will say to you is that and everyone else listening with us it's never too late from the standpoint of there are so many available resources. There are folks who do plan giving who would gladly serve in a place of consulting or in a place of mentorship. If you're one of those organizations and you get a gift someone has included your organization and you don't know what to do next reach out. There are so many folks in the plan giving space that have this knowledge and the experience they will gladly assist and then there are other consulting agencies that are actually there for you to move sometimes challenging gifts along. Even for those of us who've been in plan giving for a while we still have to consult with others who will work on more complicated unusual gift oftentimes. So don't think you're alone in this. Just start where you are. I really appreciate that because you know I witnessed like this is something I don't have a lot of experience in but we're going to talk about really this being perhaps outside the fundraising toolbox what that looks like for many of us in the nonprofit space you know how we can become a little bit more knowledgeable in this. So how does this sit or do you believe it sits outside the existing fundraising toolbox? What does that look like? Yeah I in a way I agree with it fits outside of the existing toolbox at an organization but in many ways it's actually one big toolbox and plan giving happens to be in that toolbox. We need playing gifts for our organizations those are the largest gifts oftentimes that you will ever see. So to not have a program around playing gifts I think certainly is a missed opportunity. Don't let fear hold you back. Find someone to partner with or mentor you through it. There are folks who are ready and willing to assist. I'm part of the charitable gift planners board the national organization. We have a mentor program and a lot of the mentees we are in the second year now of this mentor program a lot of the mentees are folks that are really one shop operation. So they're doing everything major gifts annual gifts they're doing plan gifts. So plan gifts are certainly in the toolbox I don't see it as really being outside of it. It needs to be in the fundraising toolbox it's a fundraiser. Yeah so for me visually I see it as like especially that one person development team right or maybe you have one and a half maybe it's like we go to that multi-purpose tool right like we call that multi-purpose tool that's in our toolbox and often it's like oh the plan giving it's a little rusty it's in there but we haven't used it in a while and I think we can all really flex that muscle. I know we look at you know an aging constituency base and that's been I mean I started my career 20 years ago and that was like a concern right it's still a concern I want to ask you who should be who should we be stewarding and cultivating for a plan gift is it a certain age demographic is it all donors what does that look like? Yeah and when I start thinking about what I will share here today as far as trends I had three items I like working with odd numbers so the first item the trend would be the baby boomers the great wealth transfer that we are currently in today we're not waiting on it to happen it's already here yeah so there are trillions of dollars there are different reports on how many trillions but nonetheless there's a T. It's a T. You're right we got your team we got your team yeah it doesn't really you know at that point at that level so yeah so here we are there they are with us our baby boomers and so this huge wealth transfer needs to be a part of what we're doing age I would say it's never too early to start with the message so that would be all really of your donor base however we certainly want to fine tune the message when it gets to folks who are perhaps looking at retirement age of course the baby boomers those 65 you certainly want to have a message that is geared towards them and then of course we're looking at folks in their 70s we're looking at the IRA that's another trend that I want to shed some light on also the individual retirement accounts the qualified charitable distributions the required minimum distributions also so that 60 65 70 75 age group I think those are going to be some of your ideal donors and supporters to really put that plan giving message out there too then when you get into actually the 80s and Dr. Russell James a guru plan giving he actually has data and information that shows that some folks will actually make their last update to their wills in their 80s so that means the stewardship piece that you mentioned if we have someone in their 70s or 60s to include our organization there is a 20 plus year time frame we need to do story of these folks and stored them very well because there's still that chance they may update that will in their 80s and say oh I haven't heard much from them right so stewardship is critical legacy societies are very important you can bring in all the planned gifts you want to if you're not stewarding those folks maybe they don't give major gifts but their legacy gift is already confirmed for your organization so you need to make sure you're reaching out to them every year all year different touches don't just put their confirmed request or legacy gift in the file and say oh yeah they already love our organization so we don't really have to do much for them that's so far from the truth they can still turn around one day and say well I haven't heard from them I'll change that and put another organization they'll fall in love with somebody else you know I'm fascinated by the whole DAF ecosystem and this really tags into what you're talking about and one of those trends the giving USA report is really been pointing this out and educating us about how this is a major vehicle that's being used but I had never heard anybody talk about until you just mentioned this the generational aspect and the age movement of when people update their documentation so I think it's a fascinating thing that you pointed this out I'm wondering I know you're an attorney are you seeing that we need to do a better job educating and communicating with those types of advisors and not just the actual folks involved with what we think is that wealth transference yeah so professional advisors you're wondering should we engage them as well into the work that we're doing at our organizations is that the question you're proposing yes absolutely as a matter of fact I have been doing some research and looking into what a professional advisors advisory council would look like at our organization or would it be a professional advisors recognition society where if a professional advisor financial planner and a state planning attorney has a client and they're including our organization in their plans do we recognize that financial advisor or that attorney in some way or do we just have a focus group with some professional advisors on the focus group we can ask questions of them and figure out if the marketing material looks appealing or if we're going in the right direction with something that we're thinking about and we're having a webinar on that at the Chesapeake plan giving council later this month should your organization have a professional advisory council so I do think we need to be in contact in touch with financial advisors uh a state planning attorneys insurance folks cpa's you name it really we're all working to serve the best interests of the client and our donors and we all need to have a seat at the table so yes we certainly need to engage one another in this work that we're doing and it's a great chance aquaneta for us to really lean into our board members and volunteer other volunteers in this way to ask them to help you know bring in this professional council absolutely you're in a partnership with your board members your volunteers for your organization those in leadership positions we're all doing this work together they have great connections and so that's what you can tap into their networks they may have a financial advisor that has a special niche in their practice maybe there's a presentation you're looking to do at some point for your legacy society or for folks of a certain age group as I mentioned the individual retirement accounts there are huge opportunities for giving around IRAs maybe your board member know someone who's a financial planner or an estate planning attorney so absolutely we need to certainly utilize our volunteers our board members and make sure they have a part or play a part in getting these messages out then maybe a curveball do you also encourage that we solicit our board members for their own planned gift is that something that we should be you know I've seen several conversations lately about don't forget to steward your board members right just because they're on your board doesn't mean that you again set it and forget it how should we go about planned giving conversations with our existing board absolutely wonderful question they're already in your organization they they already support your organization so you're not really struggling to get them to the point where they understand and appreciate your mission they're already there so certainly they would make good potential planned gift givers they're on board 100 with what you're doing if not they're in positions to bring up changes or suggestions as board members so absolutely the conversations that we need to have with them maybe it is something like a focus group or sending them information what do you think about this item that we're proposing to send to donors in our 65 to 70 age group does this look like it would be an appealing marketing piece to send to them start the conversation attention right like is this something that you and your partner would respond to exactly yes and those are softer ways to get around it or you certainly can have presentations you can have someone to come in or whoever's in your development shop can present to your board on what the trends are what's out there with IRAs or with donor advice funds they too are doing a bit of fundraising or at least the board should be in those positions to do fundraising for your organization so they're aware of what's out there I think it would help them as well with what they are doing for your organization yeah get them involved I think it's a muscle too I think it's a great way to say look we're going to start this this is going to be in our toolbox we're going to be actively thinking this way and so we're going to start with our board and want honest feedback to say how does this work for you how does our team communicate about this because it can be a little dicey and a little uncomfortable and then that really would build a lot of confidence I would think with your development team to then move forward yeah you know what's coming to mind right now oftentimes there are questions that come from board members wondering well what sort of marketing are we doing out there what what are we sending out they really want to know and oftentimes they're getting marketing pieces or fundraising direct mail pieces from other organizations that they belong to so if you're not asking them someone else surely is right you can count on that so perhaps you know share with them they're curious are they on your mailing list when you send out something whether it's an email do they receive the email or do you keep them out of that list right a lot of people do oh that's so scary what one of my practices I know that I every time I work with my clients right it's like all of your board members should be listed in your database right as well as their spouses if they have any our partners right as well as former board members because I also believe Aquanetta and school me on this if this isn't you know accurate even for former board members right past board members are still I believe possibly great candidates in this planned giving space absolutely I am a lover of genealogy and history and and so I could see no reason why we would not include former or past folks in leadership and board positions in the work that we're doing they've actually contributed quite a bit of their time their resources their treasure to your organization and to just have them at some point literally almost fall off the screen so to speak I think is is a misstep and we need to include them in what we're doing they played a part a role in your organization keep them engaged I appreciate that so much let's get into our time always goes by quickly but as we move into the final you know time with you can you share with us regarding wills you know what are some of the questions that we need to be asking and then and then on top of that I have a question I learned in my career that we need to have a copy of their living trust and will that states the organization that they're leaving a gift to can you talk to us about all of this I mean that's a loaded question there's a lot in there but yeah sure well just think about this the timing of this conversation this discussion we're having today is very appropriate because august happens to be national make a will month so spread the message get the word out yeah yeah yeah so perfect perfect timing um so with wills most organizations will receive some sort of a gift through a person's estate a will is most likely going to be the vehicle and oftentimes the organization knows nothing about that particular gift they had no clue it was coming most of them come that way I am a huge fan of just a simple ask if it's in a conversation you're meeting with a particular supporter or donor maybe they're making a gift they've already made a gift perhaps you can certainly ask have you thought about including our organization and your will have you thought about including us in your estate plan perhaps they'll say no perhaps they'll say I already have oftentimes they do even if it's a communication an email a newsletter an annual report do you put a one-liner in there have you included our organization in your will if you'd like more information please contact blah blah blah a simple ask you would get a lot of responses from that oftentimes that you never would have expected or perhaps you never would have received those responses if you didn't simply ask so that's first don't make it complicated for that initial ask just get it out there ask the question and the repeated message with this sort of conversation has to happen usually a one-time question is not going to be enough these sorts of things take a long time people struggle with their state plans for various reasons it can take months if not years I've seen as an attorney where a client would come in and it would take sometimes several months before we actually had the signing ceremony so to speak if not a year or two there were challenges dealing with family dynamics and also some other issues maybe they were selling a business so it's not a one-time question or a conversation repeated messages and so if we have a second I will answer your question about getting a copy of the documentation that includes your organization that will be ideal oftentimes people are reluctant there are all sorts of issues regarding I don't want to put my information out there there's some privacy concerns we can tell them everything we want to about how their information will be handled I suggest and every organization is different if you have a bequest intention form or a gift intention form perhaps they can fill that out and give you a copy of only the part that includes your organization not not the entire document we don't necessarily need that but just the page that includes your organization would be helpful sometimes they don't want to do that maybe that bequest intention form will be it if they don't want to do that whatever your organization decides is appropriate maybe something in writing it could even be an email or a handwritten note depending on what your organization will see fit to make appropriate for your files but that would be helpful to get it in writing for sure I love the intention letter is that something that we as an organization should be providing and perhaps you know have a commitment form or as you said that intention form is that something we should have in this fundraising toolbox of ours absolutely you absolutely should and again keep it simple it can be a one page item ideally you just want to ask those basic questions of course the person's name and depending on how you're reporting your bequest your playing gifts you want to make sure that you have perhaps as much information as they will give you maybe their age some will some won't but yeah ask them if they've included your organization if there's an estimated amount or if they have an estimated the current dollar amount sometimes people will say oh that's the future I have no idea what it will look like right that's fine the current dollar amount is really what most orgs will want and so have that in there sometimes people will say oh I'm leaving 25% of my estate have no idea the dollar amount maybe they will be able to give you an estimated amount but but certainly if you could get that information that will be helpful on that bequest intention form what oh I'm sorry I have so many follow-up like oh my god the time's gone so I'm curious because you do mention we should continue to steward these donors right even if they're not making major gifts you know throughout their tenure how often are or do we not is it you know bad form for us to go back and ask for a new intention form right like if it's been a couple of years five years what does that look like and again I mean I was raised in the south Emily post and I'm like oh that's just bad etiquette right but like what what should we do good question that's a great that is a good question is and I do not have a year time frame or two three years four or five I don't have that I think it's going to be organization specific okay if you're looking at donors you haven't heard from them in a while you're reaching out to them hopefully but you just haven't heard from them yeah maybe you look at their uh contact information and you say I'm just going to call them or let me send them email a handwritten note to check in perhaps a couple years have gone by you want to see if something has changed with them you want to make sure you're keeping the most up to date information on them is how I would approach it okay and so to put a one year two year three year I don't have a number per se for you but I would think each organization would be able to take a look and see how much activity they have around those donors they haven't heard from in a while and they can go from there with maybe reaching out every couple years or so to see if there's something new with their request intention you have been riveting and and we need to spend more time with you because you know Jared made the the comment when we started let's start off with the definition and I would have never ever come to the from the direction that you did so I can understand the value now more than ever about creating a legacy society where you because then everything's done the same and it's a much easier cell to say as a member of our society this is what we need to do and this is how we steward it um this has been amazing aquaneta bets um really interesting conversation and we talk about this a lot on the nonprofit show that we are in the middle of the greatest transference of wealth our nation is ever known and so yes this is the conversation for today definitely be a part of this and understand it because it's it's just it has so many implications for so many people um wow Jared this has been a lot of fun yeah it has been this is again a conversation that I'm not very informed about and I I love how you have brought so much wisdom aquaneta to this and I want to say too calmness right because yeah me this isn't like oh I can't wait to have this planned conversation right but you you provide so many best practices and tips for us to to use in a way that doesn't feel or sound icky I so appreciate it really I do I mean so so much great advice here so I know our viewers and listeners are feeling the same and this again this will be uploaded on all of our platforms in just a couple of hours give our executive producer a little bit of grace but he always gets it up in a timely fashion so again for those of you watching and listening aquaneta bets thank you for joining both Julia Patrick and myself Jared Ransom today it's been a pleasure having you on I mean it's been wonderful to have the continued support from our amazing presenting sponsors so thank you to Bloomerang American non-profit academy your part-time controller non-profit thought leader fundraising academy at national university as well as staffing boutique non-profit nerd as well as non-profit tech talk and watch out aquaneta because Julia now has your email and you know she's going to keep fangirling that sounds great yeah I I I think what Jared said was very magical and that is you brought a lot of calmness and grace to the process because it is such a threatening thing internally for these for people for families and then we have these organizations and then we have you know the ecosystem of legal advice financial advice you know documentation it's that's a lot but it should be a lot because it's a very important thing and so I loved hearing what you had to say hey everybody as we end every episode of the non-profit show we want to remind ourselves our viewers our listeners our co-hosts to stay well so you can do well