 Yeah So I think I don't know why because we talk about indie games for a second here And there's one game. I want to talk about in particular When rhyme was announced it was gonna have a physical version with Nintendo switch We found out that it was going to end up costing 3999 both on digital and physical which again There's a lot of people that argue whether digital physical should even cost the same price But that's a debate for another time The point was is that this game at that time costed ten dollars more on the Nintendo switch both digital Or physical than any other platform. It's a multi-platform indie game And at the time people were saying oh, it's the Nintendo tax Nintendo is one cartridges are more expensive. So and The thing is is like rhyme is only coming physically on the switch So it's like I don't know if cartridge price has anything to do with it They don't have a physical version on the other consoles. Yeah, but whatever see at that and then also It kind of encompasses the whole Idea that maybe Nintendo charges a higher premium for games like yeah, like maybe Sony Microsoft only their royalty fees only $2 per game But Nintendo is like nobody 15. Yeah, so they're offset by charging $10 more. That's the idea We'd no one knows all this stuff is under NDAs So no one's ever gonna know unless someone wants to get fired and never get a job in the industry again Ever gonna know the exact percentage is these royalties are we just have estimates out there That was the presumed thing. Well, then they came out this week and they were like hey look We heard the backlash we heard the complaints. So here's what we're gonna do We're gonna drop the digital price down to $29.99. So that's pricing parity with the other systems We're gonna leave the physical version at $39.99 But we're gonna include a download code with it that lets you download the entire soundtrack off of wherever they're Yeah, I can't remember. It's a pretty reputable. So it's a big site. I just don't remember So And they're also selling that soundtrack separately for $10. So basically You know, you're you're getting the full value of the game if you bought a digital plus the soundtrack and you're just getting it All together at once with physical they're adding more value to the physical as it were Again, that doesn't mean there's not a Nintendo tax because again because the digital price is cheap But now the physical still not and it's like we can't it's almost like we can't drop the price on that But you know what we can do we can give away a soundtrack that cost us nothing, right? but at the same point They they came out and said the reason that we had this problem with pricing is that they apparently Invested quite a bit of money to even port the thing to switch in the first place. That's what the guy said and It was something about they said they don't want to sell for a loss, but it's Interesting to me when when publishers say this that you don't want to sell for a loss on a game If you make any sort of money back on that game, right? So say for that 2999 digital between Nintendo's cut and Whoever else you have to pay out a publisher plus whoever else right the developer kickback is only two dollars on that game Which would be absolutely horrid. Yeah, but if you sell a million You just made two million bucks off the game. So how is that selling at a loss? Yeah Solid a loss of you where you make zero money or you make negative money per sale and that never happens, right? You always make something back on the game. Yeah, that's why I always feel like it's always been people say selling for a loss, but I Think it's more apt to say that they don't think they're gonna sell enough To justify how much it cost them to port the game And I think that's what they mean by selling for a loss, but they just don't say it, right? And again, you don't know we don't know what it's gonna sell But I always felt like if you have that fear, why are you releasing a physical version in the first place? Yeah, definitely Yeah, that yeah, I don't know. I mean that that's kind of I think it's like yeah You're so afraid of it. You're releasing a physical version, which is more expensive and more risky But I think I think rhymes gonna do okay from all we've heard about it It's an absolutely fantastic game. If you really like breath out of the wild rhymes right up that alley You know, it's not shorter only five to eight hours, but you know Right, right, right. You're not paying 60 bucks for it. So you're not gonna get a $60. Yeah, triple experience But I don't I'm probably planning to pick it up. I probably end up getting digital. I like physical I like having the boxes and everything. Yeah, but I don't know if I really care about the soundtrack, right? Enough to want to pay 10 extra bucks just to have a physical version Right, we'll see I say that now and then I end up getting it because I just see it in store shelf. Yeah I want it. Yeah and what I actually find really cool about the Nintendo switch is Just keep them with that indie game theme You know one of the indie games I own is the binding of Isaac after plus and have a physical version on the switch So I'm almost wondering like It's not unheard of for indie games who eventually come out as a physical version But usually that happens after they've been highly successful on the platform Like oh, we sold, you know, half a million copies on PlayStation 4 Well, now we got kind of a publishing deal with Sony and we'll release a physical version because we think we can get another 100,000 sales or something. Yeah physical, right? But here we are on the switch and like here's a couple indie games We're just coming out right away as physical day one and it's like, huh Is that Nintendo tax a thing? because The whole reason that indies avoid physical releases because of the risk and the cost and here cartridges It supposedly costs more and there's a you know a loss to consider and yet more indie games seem to be coming out day one I'm a physical. Yeah, I'm just wondering how much difference in price there is now with how small these cartridges are Compared to a CD. Well, it's not the size, right? It CDs are cheap as heck. They literally cost like half a cent to make one of them Okay, these these carts cost significantly more you have a board in there. Yeah, plus true Plus whatever memory, you know the memory size of the cart is going to affect how much the cart costs true true So the carts undoubtedly cost more than the disc but the idea was that Conversely, you save money on packaging because these packages are I'd say Two-thirds the size of a normal. Yeah case. Yeah, definitely You know, I don't really know if you save much packaging over some of the PlayStation 4 cases that are like Like this. Yeah, so shorter, but they're fatter because they fit a disc But that was the idea anyways, and then when you open up those cases. Yeah, it's a lot of dead space There is a little manual and to be fair like buys and buys it came with a manual. So like some games have manuals Not many yet, but some do but I don't know I think the town I didn't want to go to small All people are gonna think it's a 3ds game. Well, they wanted their unique form factor, right? Not even that. It's eventually possibly even lose the box because it's that small People lose the 3ds boxes. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know or any minor Exception. Yeah, it's not like you have a shelf you put it all on like you probably should yeah That's probably true. You have kids man. You can't find a little corner in your room. They just stack all your gaming shit. Yeah, right Anyways, I just thought it was interesting that They released a higher price point because of fan backlash. They dropped it on one end and then gave more for the value On the physical end. I mean, that's good. That doesn't mean there's not gonna be pricing problems with it With this kind of stuff in the future for indies I don't know the Nintendo tax is it real is it not what do you guys think let us know in the comments No, none of us know we're never gonna know publicly Make it heavy hints at times that one exists, but we NDA's man. No one wants to lose their job Like these are the kind of NDA's when people are like, oh, why don't we know it's because these are the kind of NDA's that if you break them It's not just losing your job you become unhirable, right because no one can trust you with any company secret If you release a secret like that, right what the exact royalty fees are