 It's the matwork. Interesting about playlisting in general was that user-generated playlists outnumber the amount of official playlists on Spotify. Like they have a very, they're one of the, maybe the only streaming platform with that heavy of a user-generated playlist. Because I don't think Apple doesn't really have a huge user-generated playlist. I know these are, the rest of them really don't. And I know Rutger, you wrote an article talking about just breaking down, breaking down some of the more popular independent curators on Spotify. So can you speak to one, I guess being able as an artist to utilize these different indie curators before trying to jump to some of these major playlists? And then one, what have been some of the best ways that you've seen to kind of like find these, these actual like really powerful independent curators? The ones who are actually competing, because I've seen like some of them actually compete with the major Spotify playlist, but I get more listeners than some of the major Spotify playlists. Yeah. So what I really wanted to do with that article is like, sort of break down sort of tiers of these playlists and curators and have people like go explore themselves. What a lot of people don't realize is, so we have a filter where you can exclude Spotify or major label brands. And I think a lot of people don't realize that outside of Spotify tutorials, which are obviously huge because they're Spotify, there's three major label curators as well. And those are filter, digs are in top spy. So those are all owned by major labels. So they're not really independent curators. So it's important to know that, first of all, because if you're pitching to them, probably not the best avenue to go now. So we have a filter where you can exclude Spotify and major label brands. And you can look at the truly like independent curators and see how many playlist followers they have, 28 day change ratio or percentage change in those followers so you can really filter what tier of independent playlist is right for you. Because just because it's independent doesn't necessarily mean it's the right one to go for because it's huge. You're still not going to get through if you're just starting out. So it's really up to you to again, it goes back to setting your goals and knowing where you're at in relation to your goal. It's up to you to do that sort of self-filtering and be realistic about like, hey, I can target this smaller playlist and that might lead me to this bigger playlist. And we actually have a feature called Playlist Journeys where you can see essentially the journeys that tracks take through playlists. So you can sort of see what playlists feed into what other playlists. So what smaller playlists the song started on to get it to a bigger and bigger playlist. But it is really on you to interpret or your team to interpret that for you for your goals. It's not just going to happen automatically. Are you able to tell from your side? Because like I said, I think it's interesting that there are indie curators who playlists network rival the major playlist. So are you able to see any trends in like playlist growth, like maybe specific things that the curators are doing to grow their playlist that large? Have you noticed anything? Like in terms of like the track selection and like how they... Well, maybe not even that, more so like growth tactics. Like we interviewed a playlist curator on her once and he was selling us one of his big strategies was he would change the name of his playlist to a popular album. Yeah, so yeah, that's I mean, that's one thing you can do is like search engine optimization. So yeah, I've noticed that with and this is not like the most ethical thing, but like some playlists will literally copy a bigger playlist like word for word. And so they get the search engine optimization from those, from that, from the association with that bigger legit playlist. So that's like an unethical way that some people do it, which I wouldn't recommend. So that's another thing to look out for though, you know, because you could be looking for New Music Friday and it's not actually New Music Friday, it's this other New Music Friday. New Music Friday, asterisk. Exactly. What was that as soundcheckers for Euphoria? Yeah, it was like the HBO series with Zendaya. Yeah. A really popular show has a really like cult following to it. And there's the official soundcheck on Spotify has like X amount of followers, but like this other one from like a third party curator that is also title to Euphoria or whatever, whatever has like at least like two X like followers. If not, yeah, it's like outstripped the actual playlist. That said, so like plagiarism, not cool, but there are like, you know, strategic keyword things you can do. You know, if you know like what people are searching for, what they're into, that's part of what being a curator is. Knowing what people are into, what their tastes are, what they're going to be interested in. That's just an extension of what the curator is really, as long as it's not plagiarism. Yeah, I mean, I think it's probably whatever like engagement tactics a curator does within a DSP is probably fairly limited, I would say. Yeah. Outside of that kind of SEO type stuff. Yeah. I think probably if anything, what they can do more for themselves as a curator is probably outside of it, whether it be social media. Yeah, definitely. Appearances at like music conferences, you know, putting out, you know, a free PDF, you know, book about, you know, dope music and like taste and stuff like that. Like this, I think anything they can do to gather a following outside of DSPs themselves is probably a better use of their time. Yeah. That's definitely not my field of expertise. I know that much. Yeah. But and, you know, when it comes down to it, knowing good music. Yeah. Yeah. That's step one. Yeah. That's the other thing is. It's the network.