 Without further ado, I really want to sort of hand over to our first speaker, Professor Gobinda Choudhury. Gobinda is a professor of information science at the Department of Computer and Information Science at Strathclyde, and Gobinda's research focuses on digital libraries and information services, trying to understand how people access and use information and data in different contexts. So I'm going to hand over to Gobinda and I'm very much looking forward to your presentation. Thanks so much. Thanks, William, for inviting me. This is really a great opportunity for me to share my experience with you. I have been doing research on broadly on sustainable information for nearly 15 years now. I think the first article that I wrote was in 2008. At the moment, I'm working with various agencies, institutions. I'm running a small project funded by the Scottish Library and Information Council, and one to three project proposals are at different stages of review. So what I'd like to share with you is some of my kind of understanding of the global sustainable development goals, and what I think the entire library and information sector can do. I will focus more on the academic and research libraries given the forum, but I will also draw some references from other studies and various agencies. So, right. Now, the basic standard or hypothesis of my presentation and my entire kind of, you know, research portfolio in this area is that I believe that libraries are the only institutions in the world that have access to the entire population. So over 320,000 public libraries and more than a million other types of libraries, you know, research libraries, and special libraries and so on. Virtually, libraries can reach out to everyone. And so that's number one. Number two is that sustainable development goals cannot be achieved without the involvement of everyone in the world. So it's basically people who can make the changes and they can make these changes at different levels, right from policymakers to data creators to sort of, you know, the various activities that people do in everyday life to their own personal behavior and personal practices, everyday practices and so on. So people are at the heart of sustainable development goals and libraries are the only institutions that can reach out to people. So that's kind of the basic hypothesis. Now, when you talk about sustainability, there are two ways that we can look at. One is library as an institution that is a sustainable institution. But more importantly, I strongly believe that libraries can make the major difference, the key difference, key contribution to sustainable development goals to sustainable library services. So I will try and sort of expand on some of the things. Now, these 17 icons probably are familiar to all of you. Now, although when we talk about sustainability, often people take the narrow view of sustainability, which is SDG 13, Sustainable Development Goal 13, Climate Change. However, as I will show you towards the end of my presentation, that libraries and information services can virtually make contributions to every sustainable development goals. So again, the different terms that occur in literature with regard to sustainability, climate change, biodiversity, environment ecosystem and so on. And although there is a specific goal for climate change, which is SDG 13, there are many other goals in which the word sustainability appear. There are some examples. These are just a few examples that, as you can see, for example, in the context of Sustainable Development Goals 1.5, it says climate-related extreme events and environmental shocks and disaster management and so on. Similarly, in education, education for sustainable development. For sustainable cities, SDG 11, there is again kind of environmental impact on cities. So these are some of the examples, which means that, and these are taken from the complete list of all the sustainable development goals and 169 targets. These are only examples. I have not picked up all of them. The point I'm trying to make is that the word sustainability and sustainable development goals should not be taken narrowly. It actually spreads over almost every sustainable development goal. And library is indeed, as I will try and demonstrate, can contribute to all of them. Here are some studies and reports that I will focus on very quickly. I will scan through them to highlight some of the points that they have identified. IFLA, as you know, IFLA special interest groups in sustainable environmental library services, it proves that some of the specific activities or areas where sustainable libraries can contribute to green buildings and equipment, green office principles, sustainable economy, that is the sustainable consumption and circular economy and so on. And more importantly, sustainable library services, which is access to all the information related to basically if we talk about sustainable development goals, then, you know, providing access to relevant information and data with regard to every sustainable development goal and their targets and so on. Environmental education, again, that's an important area. Sustainable education on sustainability, environment, etc. And positive carbon handprint. I think this is something, an interesting concept, which shows that we are familiar with the carbon footprint, which is basically the energy cost and environmental cost of any activity or any product or any service. Handprint is something which is actually how it is offset or how it is kind of, you know, the carbon footprint can be, excuse me, balanced with certain things. Given time, you know, I can discuss this towards the end of that. But that's an interesting concept. And the Finnish public libraries, they have come up with some measures of carbon handprint. And in fact, they give now in Finland, they give library cards to public library users, where they can actually tap and see what has been their carbon footprint, of course, through the use of libraries. There are other aspects of sustainability that we should consider. And if again, if I actually highlights that the social sustainability, environmental ability or environmental management, and commitment to overall all the other SDGs. So again, as I pointed out earlier, that sustainable development goals are there are 17 of them. Climate change is only one. So libraries can contribute to while, you know, being mindful of climate change SDG 13. But there are many other sustainable development goals for libraries can contribute directly, and probably through its collections and services to every sustainable development goal. Now, there are some challenges of sustainability. It's becoming slowly kind of, you know, a common the lingua franca if you say everyday lingua franca sustainable development goals, but there is a lack of understanding. And I will show you some data just to demonstrate that lack of an agreed strategy for the sector. I think that is something that still sort of we know we are grappling with, you know, we are there are there have been some examples of good practice and so on. But sector wide, there isn't anything like that. Like, you know, in other areas, for example, sector wide agreement on collection, development on services, and so on and so forth. But with regard to sustainability, there hasn't been any kind of agreed strategy across the sector. It's an indicator. Again, it is very difficult. We do not really know and have spoken to many people, many institutions, including national libraries and the organizations of national libraries, and various professional associations, including high schools, assist, at least and silly and so on. There are sort of been a clear understanding. There isn't any clear understanding of our target indicator. There is no formal reporting to that, you know, if you are leading a library, you know, you really do not have a framework to capture data as to what you are contributing to, how you are contributing to the SDGs, and what is the reporting mechanism? How can you sort of report on these achievements in sustainable development goals and contributions made by the libraries and collectively as a sector? We do not have that. Now, all these I said can be backed up by some data and this is something and OCLC survey that conducted a survey amongst 1700 library and information staff worldwide. And 63% said that they are somewhat familiar with SDGs, but somehow it's only a very few who are really conversant or sort of, you know, is quite clear about the sustainable development goals. It being discussed at different levels, one thing that I should draw your attention to is the last bullet point which I have highlighted. It's only 1% from the Association of Information Science and Technology, the global largest professional body. So as you can see, and this is a very recent survey, so which shows that there has not been really kind of an open discussion about it. And although everyone broadly understands that libraries have a role to play, but it is not being part of everyday discussion and strategy and action plans and so on. Again, this is these two slide figures from the OCLC survey. It shows that over 40% of the libraries reported that sustainability is not incorporated in the library strategy. And only 12.67% says that within the academic libraries it is explicitly referenced or explicitly discussed in their strategy. And for public libraries it's slightly less, but it's only 11-12%. So which means that the sustainability agenda has not really been brought into the strategy of the academic and public library. The survey also wanted to find out that where libraries, the library professionals think that libraries can contribute to these are the five top areas of sustainable development goals where the libraries, according to this OCLC survey, where the libraries can contribute to, of course, SDG4 quality education, decent work and economic growth, SDG8, reduced inequalities, SDG11, SDG16, obviously SDG16.10 is public access to information, so that's where libraries can contribute to. And resource sharing, cooperation, collaborations which is SDG17. And this kind of based on a ranking of five, the top one is SDG4 quality education and the bottom one is shown through partnership and resource sharing and collaborations. So this is again a very recent survey reported earlier this year. And I was talking to the lead of this survey from OCLC, Lynn Conway, a good friend of mine. I spoke to her immediately after this came out in March this year and again at assist two weeks ago. There's still sort of, her belief is that there is a lot more awareness, campaigning, advocacy needs to be done within the event like a sector to kind of create this momentum and better understanding of sustainable development goals. Being that is the, it's called the Australian University Libraries and they have come up with a strategy document which includes some of these areas like promoting literacy, closing the gaps that is equitable access to information, communicating knowledge created within the universities and passing on to the general community and wider society and the community knowledge acting as a hub. So these are some of the areas that they have identified and I must say that you know it is interesting to read this document. This came out in 2019 I think 2020 at least three years ago, three to four years ago and they have included the sustainability in their strategy. The European survey which is again every day is about your 30 or 31 professional associations in Europe. They also did a survey very recently again as you can see from the reference 2023 and they also have identified where libraries can contribute and some of these areas are listed here. You will, I'll make sure that these slides are available to you and maybe openly accessible so that people can see it. So these are some of the ability services. Now one thing is important and that what does it mean that the carbon footprint of libraries? For the first time only one university sorry national library have come up with their carbon footprint although it is a very very kind of you know simplistic approach they have taken and they have stated it very explicitly but it says that you know the carbon footprint of the national library of Finland is 1,018 tons of carbon dioxide equivalent. What does it mean? It means about more than a thousand passenger plane you know flights between London and New York back and forth or it is nearly 50,000 trees that need to be planted to offset this. This is just an idea that what is the extent of this carbon footprint. However this this study is very simplistic and the true carbon footprint and they have you know clearly stated it in the report you can see these links and you can go to the full report and they say that they have taken purposely a simplistic approach and this summarizes that you know largely the carbon footprint was due to the energy consumption of the library infrastructure and facilities and of course they have no control over it because they do not own the building it is part of the university and the university's state management actually looks after that but this is again a kind of some ballpark figure some idea as to and there is a methodology exists although I must say that it is a very simplistic approach that they have taken but that is one some way of measuring the carbon footprint. What is needed again as I said that the libraries are in a very strong position to reach out to people to empower people in making contributions and we need a strategy I mentioned it before we need an agreed framework of targets and indicators education for sustainable development particularly for academic and research libraries this is an area where academic and research libraries can make a real contribution education for sustainable development even school libraries can can play a huge role public libraries broadly yes for general sort of education and literacy and so on but primarily education for sustainable development falls within very rightly within the portfolio of the academic and research library and resources and policies and so on and more importantly data gathering and reporting tools. Education for sustainable development as you can see that is a kind of promoted by UNESCO and there are very clear guidelines as to what can be done and there are some examples of of ESD that said some university libraries around the world they have introduced. I'll finish with this diagram as you can see as you can see that we can look at from sustainability point of view we can look at library as a sustainable institution and that can be measured through kind of sustainable physical infrastructure and policies collections and services and some training and education on sustainability and they can then contribute to various ESDs particularly by building sustainable collections and services libraries can really contribute to every sustainable development goal SDG more specifically on some of those. Similarly targeted data and information services and education for sustainable development again can contribute to some specific SDG targets like sustainable consumption behavior for example like you know sustainability thinking education for sustainable development at all levels and so on and and and also through cooperation and collaborations again libraries can contribute to several SDGs not every library will have resources or capacity to contribute to every SDG but collectively as a sector we can demonstrate that we can contribute to all the SDGs and again we can create more importantly we can create the future generations of our society who will be environmentally literate who will be conscious in all the sustainable development goals and they can then bring in all of those in their everyday activity whatever business whatever management whatever education whatever profession they are in. So I'll stop here and sort of probably we'll move on to the next talk but I'll be happy to take some questions to us then thank you. Thank you so much Gabinda that was was really great and really really inspiring as well that sort of opportunity for libraries as enablers and your final slight fair around you know thinking about a couple of those kind of different different lenses so so thank you and I encourage colleagues on the call yes please be thinking about kind of chat some some you know some questions and so on we'll do the Q&A kind of after Gabinda and Mimi but I'm delighted to move on to our our second speaker so Mimi Servertwerth started her career at Stellenbosch in library and information services as a special collections librarian and she has a BBBL degree from Stellenbosch and a master's in information science from the University of Pretoria. Mimi is currently the director of digital scholarship and marketing at Stellenbosch and this enables her to contribute to areas such as open access and digital heritage and we look forward to finding out more around kind of some of that work and Stellenbosch and its repository and SDGs so I'm going to hand over to you Mimi and welcome thank you so much thank you thank you very much William okay so just a little correction there William but you wouldn't have known so my title changed just last week so I am in fact now the director for scholarly communication and marketing our digital scholarship division has had a name change to scholarly communication which we feel is perhaps a bit more a bit broader so yes so my talk is going to differ a bit from Govinda Govinda it was very interesting and how you also touched on how libraries can actually more directly contribute to SDGs mine will actually be focusing on contribution to SDG research in the broader university community and then of course also focusing on specifically on the role of the library so let me just go forward here okay so just a quick outline so firstly just the broader view of Stellenbosch University library uh Stellenbosch University sorry unsustainable development goals then the library how we can potentially contribute to SDG research improving the findability of SDG related research output the role of the repository looking at what we are currently doing and then ending off with some examples which we think we can look at showing impact in terms of research on SDGs so for those of you who are not familiar with Stellenbosch University so Stellenbosch is quite an old town situated in the western Cape province of South Africa and I'm sure you have not heard that we are in summer and it is 35 degrees outside so yes so we are a public university serving around 30 000 students so if we look at the university's vision it states that Stellenbosch University wants to be Africa's leading research intensive university globally recognized as excellent inclusive and innovative where we advance knowledge in the service of society and one of our core strategic themes at the university is research for impact so one can easily see especially if you look at words like knowledge in the service of society research for impact that reaching the sustainability goals of both the UN 2030 agenda and the AU agenda 2063 falls within this vision and strategy of the university so to further support this agenda there was a sustainable development impact hub founded at Stellenbosch University in late 2021 the hub has four key objectives namely to raise awareness at Stellenbosch University and its partners on existing SDG related activities including sustainability literacy also to create partnerships at Stellenbosch with our partner institutions through international collaborations for SDG research education and promotion to all coordinate the collection of data to measure impact and consolidate resources and to communicate the university's contributions to the overarching sustainability agendas so the university also recognizes and rewards research on SDGs I recently attended the annual research rewards which was hosted by our deputy vice chancellor for research innovation and postgraduate studies and it was very interesting to note that except for the fact that almost 90% of the recipients were women I suppose almost but if I have to guess about two-thirds of the recipients their research really focused on supporting SDGs and especially in the field of medicine and health sciences but also very much interdisciplinary so according to the university's web page the SDGs that they are currently focusing on are no poverty zero hunger gender equality reduced inequalities life on land and peace justice and strong institutions so moving on to how the library can contribute to SDG research so firstly if we look at this actually just very simplistically the library's role as a provider of resources for research can obviously contribute to research on SDGs as well perhaps we should look at describing these resources a bit better in the context of SDGs perhaps looking at metadata including metadata in our catalogs where a resource should relate directly to an SDG here we have to reach out to our metadata librarians who we know these days do very little original cataloging and have a massive workload so I'm not sure if this would be viable but it is definitely an option another way in which we are continuously contributing is with regard to bibliometrics and measuring impact of SDG research we use products such as Syval to support for example the SDG Harvey at Stellenbosch and also help researchers to measure the impact of their research we're constantly also striving to measure not only academic impact in terms of citations but also societal impact which is a bit more challenging but one would really like to see that reference in a white paper or in a policy or even in legislation where you know that the research has impacted on ground level and is addressing an SDG so that is really the goal and that also comes back to knowledge in the service of society so in terms of repositories which is the field I'm mainly active in there seems to be plans to be able to accommodate information on SDGs with various configurations in the newer versions of dspace for the non-librarians dspace is open source repository software which we currently use also here at Stellenbosch so they are looking at metadata customization where one can create specific metadata fields related to SDG research also thematic collections within repositories to help organize and categorize content based on sustainability goals integration with external systems through APIs the use of controlled vocabularies when it comes to describing work on SDGs and lastly customization through add-ons and plug-ins so we've been researching this for quite a while and it's been difficult to really put our finger on something at this stage which will work in our specific repository but some of it is already being done and I will cover this in my next little bit so moving on so how can we improve the findability of SDG-related research output in our repository okay so we have been operating an institutional repository named Sun Scholar here at Stellenbosch University Library and Information Service since 2008 which makes it one of the more mature repositories in South Africa in our repository you will find research papers, articles, thesis, dissertations and other scholarly works by Stellenbosch University authors and of course some of these will relate to sustainable development goals so we have recently and this is just a bit technical we've recently migrated to version 7 of dSpace which is the software that we use and we are currently ironing out issues related to this upgrade it's been traumatic and also in terms of I think just to go back to Gobindas talk in terms of sustainability in libraries sustainability of our systems is really a big deal and being now going through this process where normally it is when you do a version upgrade it is simply an upgrade but in this case it was actually a migration of the entire repository anyway be that as May we have recently embarked on a project where we are starting to add SDG metadata to records relating to SDGs we do this sorry I'll just need to move on here quickly okay so we do this by adding keywords stipulating the specific number of the SDG the record relates to we did discuss this with our metadata staff but it is so we do have their input but this is currently done by repository staff rather than metadata librarians so we find that this improves the findability of SDG related research in the repository I also want to mention and I see that we actually do have somebody from Pretoria and the audience I think it was Lindewef if I'm not mistaken so we work quite closely with the South African SDG Hub which is managed by the University of Pretoria so one of the things they do is they harvest metadata of all the SDG research output from all South African institutional repositories as well as a few repositories abroad so including this SDG metadata it will also make it easier for them in their process making it more efficient as of course they rely on machines to identify SDG research so in relation to that I'm interested to hear maybe in six months time if this has made a difference because as I understand that the machine harvesting process is also not always spot on and I think in this case what is really needed is and I'm very lucky and I think in our case that there is a willingness among staff to think out of the box a little bit and maybe just to go a little bit of that extra mile to recognize when you're sitting with the thesis in front of you that you are cataloging from scratch to ask yourself whether this is pertaining specifically to one of the SDGs so lastly I want to talk about what we call what we would like to call a journey of impact so open access and with what we feel it does for the SDGs so at Stellenbosch University Library we know that the research we make available is being accessed and not only academically so the top three most viewed items in our repository and I must say this statistic is not entirely new it is a few years old but of course with the upgrade we are still not having all of our legacy stats so this is the best I can do but the top three most viewed items in our repository all address practical societal issues which can be linked to sustainable development goals the items as you can see on your screen number one is a thesis done in the year 2000 addressing the issue of turnover among public sector registered nurses in South Africa accessed over 35,000 times and cited over 50 times which is quite unique for a thesis number two 2014 thesis addressing women's vulnerability in society and number three a 2007 thesis on the causes of food insecurity in Southern Africa which was accessed almost 10,000 times now I don't believe it's a far cry to assume that this is a case of library infrastructure literally enabling open science for sustainable development as can be seen by linking the issues there on the screen with some of the SDGs so another open access initiative at our library is hosting is a hosting service for open access journals academic journals affiliated with our institution and once again we utilize open source software to facilitate this in the usage of these journals we can also see not only citations and academic impact but definitely also societal interest and as a matter of fact our most used journal is a practitioner's journal on social work the lower one of the sorry I'm just checking the time here so one of the latest endeavors of course in academic libraries has been to enter the world of open data so Robert Kaluu Belgian Informatic Engineer Computer Sciences said when we have all data online it will be great for humanity it is a prerequisite to solving many problems that human kind faces so Stella Bush University Library also ventured into this sphere of open data and research data by launching an open data research repository research data repository in 2019 so here again if we look at the usage it's quite interesting so we've got this example and I actually wish that I could could play the video but I couldn't put my finger on it and it is a bit long and a bit boring but anyway so it's videos of experiments done on a local farm in the western Cape illustrating the reaction of use as in female sheep to the odor of their own lambs and this is something which is significant obviously in terms of behavioral ecology and farming practice now this data said in the first three months after upload it was viewed almost 600 times downloaded 87 times now I don't know but I cannot think that anybody else except for sheep farmers could possibly be interested in downloading those videos and here again I think we could possibly have a link to go to so I hope I'm not taking it too far but I hope that these examples can at least illustrate that repositories are an important tool in the library toolkit in terms of supporting SDG research so thank you I would also welcome any questions except difficult ones thank you thank you so much Mimi and I think yes absolutely that plays closing comment about repositories is definitely something that can be in libraries toolkits and also I think kind of helps to kind of underline some of Govinda's points as well around sort of the role that the libraries can play both as kind of an enabler to support to support that so I'm we've we've got about kind of 10 minutes or so so I'm going to open the floor to questions via sort of chat or if colleagues want to put their hand up and while they're thinking about that I might enjoy chairs privilege and ask Govinda a sort of an opening question which is probably not a very fair question virtually Govinda which is you identify so I think your talk was incredibly inspiring but also very kind of realistic thinking about some of those challenges which you had identified if you were to prioritize or if we were as a community to pick one of those one of those challenges which which you had shared in terms of kind of strategy targets recording awareness is there one or is it that they're all quite interconnected and holistic thank you William they are interconnected but I think what we my first priority will be to come up with a strategy for the sector because I think what what is happening is that everyone is doing their bit but there isn't any kind of coordination and more importantly we are not in a position to even tell our paymasters whether it is the university or whether it is the government or local council whoever it is that we are actually making a lot more contribution that they know about so in fact and this is very much reflected with Mimi's work as well that by making content available through this open access repositories if we can collect data as do and as Mimi has pointed out that if we can collect data and say that look these are the people who are accessing our data and this is how it is being kind of you know used in their research so again indirectly libraries are playing quite a lot of important rules there similarly for example libraries played a huge role you know even indirectly they are playing in making data and information services more equitable more accessible to everyone and that is one of the major goals of the even SDG which is SDG5 gender equality and SDG10 general equality amongst different cross sections of society so I think strategy will help the sector to at least map what is being done and therefore lead to that will lead to some kind of reporting framework great no thank you very much I've taken some notes there these are not yes the yes some really kind of good challenges for us there we've got a question from from the audience from Nicola Cochral asking the carbon handprint concept sounds interesting and other established ways of considering this or measuring it so I guess this ties back to that finished work that you had mentioned yes I can if you if you go to the if you Google it and then you can find that in the Finnish public libraries they again are kind of the leaders in this and obviously because Harry Savit who is leader of that research group is also chair of the IFLA ENSU LIB so they have developed mechanism a tool to calculate the carbon handprint what they do is and they have given kind of details of how they do it the analysis and so on what they say is that the carbon footprint of a book if we buy a book is how much they say at its sort of they have calculated it I can't remember the figure of the top of my head but it says something like say 100 grams of of carbon dioxide or something of that sort now if you are a library user and then again they have identified that as a library user these are some of the more environment friendly way that you can use your library like maybe walking or cycling or nothing's like that then how much carbon you are upsetting for that particular book so the idea being that if a book is produced then it already comes with some carbon footprint irrespective of whether it is ever used or not but more it is used the better it is in a way to be justified that its carbon footprint is worth it is and then if it is used more and more and more frequently in a more environment friendly way then that it generates actually it saves more carbon than it actually created or consumed during the production process and that's what is carbon handprint really interesting and it may be think as well there about not just the physical books but yes there's a whole world there around our e-resources and our digital and digitized collections and the sort of hand prints there that's great thank you one more for you Gabinda another simple one around those sort of key challenges those lacks that we kind of mentioned the awareness the strategy the targets the indicators the recording do you think so Esther from Lester is asking do you think that sector wide agreements are achievable and she's put in brackets in a timely manner it has to be there may be kind of you know more flexible way now mind you we have agreed to some of the most difficult things even from very early age we came up with mark cataloging in the 1960s and then of course it went to different revisions and so on and so forth we all have agreed to use some tools that is used for managing library collections and tools and standards and so on so we do not agree 100 percent on everything but you know for anything there has to be a standard standard way of measuring standard way of reporting and so on with some flexibility in in there it it will not that everything will be applicable to every library they can choose on or focus on depending on their composition depending on their focus and so on but I think it is important that we as a sector we agree to some of the things that we want to measure at the moment we are not really clear as to what to measure and how to measure it right thank you so much the and I sort of I've got to go to use chair's privilege again sort of Mimi I think it's really interesting sort of looking at that role that that demonstrate the demonstrable role that you could showcase where the sort of the library is is able to kind of highlight some of that SDG sort of sort of research other whether any any suggestions or key recommendations that you would make from your experience of what kind of libraries libraries should be thinking or libraries or repository managers should be thinking about in sort of embedding those SDGs from your experience in Stellenbosch yes so as I've mentioned you know the sort of little bit that we're doing at the moment is making a difference I think it's crucial though and I think that Gwendo also maybe talked about this or referred to it that we also share this with university administration so that they are also aware of of the difference that the library is making because you know they're all about rankings and all kinds of other nonsense where as you know this is the stuff that that's really making a difference on the ground and I think it is really demonstrate demonstrable as you said and just also a quick mention that I also believe that there are some challenges and I think one of the things is that there's perhaps not always a willingness in terms of library staff to think out of the box and then also wider I don't know if anybody will agree but it also seems as if a lot of people are sort of jumping on the SDG bandwagon and sticking it everywhere and trying to to make it something where you're in a field where it's not related at all but you're saying okay how can our company contribute to SDGs but sometimes it's very noble but I think sometimes it is also just a question of you know trying to look like you're making a societal impact where I think libraries are actually quite posed to do make a real difference directly and indirectly you know yeah you know absolutely I agree and I think I think libraries as that sort of role as sort of those educators and being able to kind of empower and look at what we can do with those structures we can definitely look at how we can walk that SDG kind of sort of walk there is a comment I'm just scanning through here yeah there was a question about yeah recording the recording and slides yes we will make those available and one of the challenges that kind of Amy a colleague in the record keeping kind of archive sector has said one of the biggest challenges is the overwhelming creation of digital content and then I guess in turn managing kind of either kind of mapping or managing managing that as well so I think that's very much something that's on our mind as well around this so we've just got another minute or two I'm going to invite thank you both there are any kind of closing closing comments or thoughts you want to make there's definitely definitely some actions I think for us to take away as a community to think about this but also I think for us to pick up in our digital cafe in December which everyone is cordially invited to bring your bring your challenges and problems but also you know where we can work collectively together which is part of the drive around bringing people together around these these forum yes I can maybe just if I may end all by saying yes I agree it would also be amazing to do something sector-wide I'm not sure you know we are definitely differences in our in our countries in terms of how libraries work together in you know over borders or in a certain country we have several library consortia in South Africa and as you have said Governor we have agreed on many things in the past but then also if I think of some very basic issues which we still not agreeing on and cannot work on together but yes it would be fantastic if there could be sort of a sector-wide collaboration in countries or in districts to see how we can put this on the map and collectively work towards it if I may add very quickly in 30 seconds people are our resources so people should come together and try and like Syllip Green Library's network is a good example I have I'm doing now a research funded by Sleek on trying to map exactly what is being done in the public and school libraries in Scotland and amazingly people are doing quite a lot it's only that nobody knows that they are doing so I think people are already doing they are our asset we need to bring them together and try and learn from each other and that's how we take a bottom-up approach