 I'm calling the governance organization legislation committee to order at 1040 on September 11th We have a quorum and this is being video recorded for a later playback on I believe the town's website our first order of business is the candidate statements for Publication that we presented to the town council at the September 9th meeting And so we're gonna talk about what we heard from them and What we might want to propose for revisions prior to bringing it back on September 23rd to the town council I don't think anyone is connected. I am not connected none of us are This is like Right so I have My copy on my computer I'm not sure If I can Miss I'm not sure without an internet connection. I can pop it up onto the monitor I What is your phone Yeah, the Jones I had problems connecting to this morning, too And I don't think without my connection without a connection I can't Connect into the screen because I would otherwise I would just pop it on the screen what I have But I Don't it's not detecting another because there's no wireless Wireless but anyway, so I have a copy on my computer The policy that on publication of candidate statements that we were looking at on Monday There's no changes to it right now. We're trying to decide whether we want to change it So I have one requested change that Kind of relates to it, but not really at all which is there's been a request by a counselor to change the title To instead of just policy on the publication of candidate statements to Policy on the publication of candidate statements on the town bulletin board in accordance with charter section 7.6 to clarify Why we have this policy right in the title? So if everyone's okay with that, I'm gonna make the title insanely long I did not name any names Evan I Did not name me we are on video So I am making that change. Oh, I should actually do this With changes because we should be tracking our changes on this document. So Yeah, so and I will save this as a different one and if I ever get out on to you know Wi-Fi I will upload it So that's one the one of the other things that came up Was the we had two sort of things the active hyperlink was one people were really concerned about Do we want to propose a change to that and come back to the council with a different of that? I think what people were talking about was instead of having it active under the name It would just be a text URL that sits under the name before the statement So people can see what the URL is and have to copy and paste to go to it instead of just click You're okay with that so that would relate to what candidate statement means and since we're all having problems connecting to things That's paragraph 2 which says the phrase candidate statement shall mean the following and number B under that is or a letter B a Hyperlink from the candidates name to one web page the candidate shall provide the URL to the web page the first sentence needs then changed to a text only url period Below okay. Yeah, the name of the candidate I shall so a is the name of the candidate as it shall appear on the Election ballot B right now is a text only URL Do we want to dictate where I don't think we need to I was just gonna leave it at that Right, so right now B would now read a text only URL the candidate shall provide the URL period I had to the web page, but if we're just The you are I would just say provide the URL Instead of to the web page just a text only URL the candidate shall provide the URL Does that sound like good language for everyone for that change We had questions as to why it was 900 care. This was to be yes We had questions as to why 900 characters, but everyone seemed okay with the length from my memory Link not hyperlink Andy said that He didn't want a definition of bulletin board as number one it should just say the website so The second half of number one after we define what the Charter says which was recommended by the town attorney by the way Is the sentence it can be found at HTP colon slash last Gov slash bulletin which is now the bulletin board So I think that actually does kind of comply with what Andy wanted. I don't know whether we would rotate the two What's confusing though is that? Will this actually? They're going to create a separate web page for this Right, it has a link from the bulletin. So I guess the bulletin board will just be like here's where you find candidate statements Right, but they're not technically The statements themselves are not posted on the bulletin board the link to it. It's a weird It's a weird thing, but I guess it's it's fine because it'll be there It'll just be confusing because eventually that'll get pushed down as we add more things to the bulletin board As opposed to just it's on the website, but Yeah, or during election season. It's always the top one on the bulletin board and then Not an election season that link gets pushed down and two years later You push that link back up So that was that one and then the final one is I Think we're not changing it, right? We're not changing the language, right? I thought that was what everyone seemed to want on that one the final one for this was The filing or no was the distribution of the URL to Submit the statement so to the form There was some request to not distribute it all at once to everyone who's filed but distribute that link as people Take their papers out And so we should talk about the timing of the distribution of the URL To the form for filing submitting the statement Right now we have it being distributed the day after nomination papers are due To only those who filed nomination papers So I don't have a strong preference But I do see the merit in when you pull papers They give you a whole they give you all the campaign finance stuff, right? You you get a whole bunch of information when you pull Not when you when you file you just hear this and that's fine But when you pull you get so to some extent it might be useful to include it in that packet of Hey, if you actually do end up filing here's how you do the campaign finance stuff Here's how you do the candidate statements So the policies per this policy is going to be handed to them when they pull papers So the question is how do you get the URL to them? You can hand them something they can type into a Document the form URL. Yeah, the form URL you could Yeah, I guess it just to me there is some logic in giving them Everything would we then be distributed and electronically to or Or just on a piece of paper that they have to then type in the URL I To some extent I think it depends a little bit on what the URL looks like because if it's just Amherst I may dot gov slash Candidate that you can type that in if it's like some long URL then that's They might not get to the form they might get to the page I mean I'd like to see the the form URL Email to candidates. I'm not so concerned about also shipping out a URL on paper At the time they pick up so we could put if if the URL is going to be static We could put it on the policy or something Yeah Maybe it could be the URL is on the policy that they get right away and they could be told look you can you can do this now if you want and then It could still be emailed out later So Here's a solution instead of changing paragraph 6 which is the no later than 5 p.m. Amherst local time 1 business day after the Deadline this is the one where they email the URL we can add to paragraph 13 which right now reads the board of registrar shall provide all persons requesting Nomination papers with a copy of this policy with the relevant dates at the time the nomination papers are requested to add a copy of this policy the relevant the dates the relevant dates and the URL for submitting The candidate statement at the time nomination papers are requested turn that into three things So it's not necessarily if it changes. It's not changing the policy. It's here's the three things So that would now read a copy of this policy the relevant dates and The URL for submitting The candidate statement at the time the nomination papers are requested and So now you've got it is going out by email at a certain timing in case people want to click But they'll have it earlier if they want to submit it earlier. Are there any other requested oh Alyssa also talked about She would ask that candidates be able to submit more than once Do we as a committee wish to take that issue up and potentially modify the proposed policy we're going to put out right now We have Candidates do we have once submitted person shall not be permitted to revise the candidate state? Evan So I think and I want to I had actually talked with Alyssa a little bit about this beforehand and Her intent Because I want to make sure it's clear was not that a Candidate statement gets posted and then someone says and I never mind. I want to change it then we go and replace it I believe her intent was once it's posted it's posted and can't be revised but if you pull papers in July and you submit it in you know August and then you go I want to change it in September and it still hasn't gone up Then they just resubmit the form and they would just take the most recently submitted form But I don't think the intention was for them to be able to edit it once it's posted I think it's the ability to send a new inner vise it before it's posted. I believe that was her Interpretation because for me personally once it's up it's up I think I don't want staff to have to go through and be replacing and editing But I guess I do understand the merit of if you submit it in Right away and then later you go. Oh that messaging isn't really working while I'm knocking doors and it hasn't gone up yet Maybe I'll alter it. It's not hard for staff when they get them to just say well This is the most recently dated one and we'll put And use your mic Of many including the link to the URL so I would say caution what you put in here and so the other thing is we People who use this to position like oh everybody's talking about whatever and I'm also talking about that. Maybe I should reposition myself No, it's just one Others so I'm not sure where we stand I mean we've got Steve Three minutes or five minutes whatever it was one take one take. Yeah, that was it That was true for everyone It sounds like maybe we're set with one and done Even if it hasn't been published you get your one submission And so that means the clerk's office if someone because it's a URL that in theory is going to allow multiple submissions unless it's set up to Do IP addresses, but you could just hop to a different one You know, they take the first one submitted not the last one submitted if someone attempts to submit multiple I just don't know what's technically possible with a form on the website of the whether they could prohibit it I guess if you have to put a web an email address or something in you might not be able to I just don't know whether they can they can set it up for one versus Yeah, so so I just don't know what's possible IT but if we have the policy that says once it's submitted you can't make changes that would be to tell IT You take the first one that was submitted not the last if they submit multiple you accept you take the first one Steve maybe the Like let's put pretend that I put up something Then maybe I at least I have the option of deleting so maybe you can't edit but you can't delete Like sometimes I'd rather go with no statement rather than this dumb thing that I wrote In the middle of the night. I just I like the simplicity of one and done Okay This number nine once submitted person shall not be permitted to revise the candidate statement number nine any other requested changes Based on your own thoughts or what you heard at the council meeting so therefore I'm going to ask for a motion to Recommend the town council adopt the policy on the publication of candidate statements on the town bulletin board in accordance with Charter section 7.6 as revised at today's meeting Do I hear a motion? Sure, if I'm no male motion maker I'll make it recommend title So I'm making the motion who's seconding Steve Who wants it? Okay Did are you seconding pat? Okay, any more discussion all those in favor I That is unanimous 5-0 So can we talk? Just briefly about I'm assuming you're writing the motion for the council and That motion will have to have dates that Contradict the policy can we talk just a little bit about what you're proposing for that motion? Yes Thank you. Let me pull up what the dates would be So the dates under the policy The dates are that the email The the URL email needs to go out September 18th We're not even going to vote before then Deadline to submit is October 3 Ballot names is October 4 is when ballot order is decided Candidate statements would go live on October 8th and the election is November 5 so What I will do is tomorrow I will submit the revised revisions here to The town manager so that he has a copy and ask him to determine when a URL can be determined for emailing to candidates Because until we know we can't email a URL until we have one and I guess what I'm thinking is potentially The URL as soon as they can get it out after the policy is adopted I don't we can put a deadline on that but If they can get it out the 24th if we adopt the 23rd It should go out the 24th The the form URL. I don't see why the form URL can't be ready on the 24th Right if they know about it now the form is easy to create. It's a name It's a text URL and it's a thousand care nine hundred character limit that and we can talk about some more stuff But you know the form itself is not hard So I would I would probably ask the town manager to confirm that a URL Could be created and determined and be emailed out to the candidates on the 24th Or if we want to give an extra day the 25th Of September instead of what would be under the policy the 18th 25th 24th. What do people think the meeting's the 23rd? If they know about this today Forms don't take a while to put together. There's no reason that especially since we simplify the hyperlink part I I don't see any reason why they can't already have the form built by the town council meeting on the 23rd and send it Immediately out unless we hear from OIT So I'll I'll aim for a deadline of the 24th in the motion But I will definitely check with the town manager to make sure that that's okay I'll give them what deadlines we're hoping to do Submit candidate statements if it goes out September 24th right now under the policy you'd have until October 3rd Which is three and six is ten days It might be nice to extend that a little bit farther Simply because It hasn't been widely known so people might not have been thinking about this I'm not sure how much farther people would want to extend it The third is Because no, I'm back off. What's the third is a Thursday? So could we maybe give them till that Monday? so the Monday would be For the 6th 7th right the Monday would be the 7th So the 7th the proposal would be to Submit the candidate statements by the 7th to be on the first live We were originally giving three business days for the IT department to get it live which is why that was listed as the eighth because there's a weekend in between So the 7th would then put if they put it by Monday That would put it on Thursday where we could have it go live Friday 10th or 11th We could probably still keep the the 10th as I'll go live on a Thursday if everyone submits by Monday Yeah, because they'll have ballot order on the third right on the fourth on the fourth They'll have ballot order on so once they have that they can literally create the website And all they have to do is move the text that it shouldn't take very long Yeah, I mean I don't I don't want to dismiss the workload, but if if things are done in advance So a propose the 10th to the town manager as Which would be the three days after submission so Email URL email out by the 24th Submit the candidate statements no later than the 7th to be on the first page up and the page goes up on the 10th So that's how I'll write the motion as long as I get the okay from the town manager that that's doable by staff sound good So that's the plan Okay Thank You Evan for reminding me about those dates that need changed Anything else related to candidate statements? Seeing none. We're going to move on to item agenda three Which is continued discussion and possible vote on a town council policy for resolutions proclamations commemorations and citations There are a bunch of documents related to this the First one is the revisions to rule eight and I'll go through which four they would be I think we've got all four available Revisions to rule eight of the town council rules of procedure revisions to GL guidelines for review on clarity consistency and action ability revisions to the GL committee charge and then the creation of an FAQ for the public the When we last discussed this We had Attentive sort of what we were looking for in this policy that these proposed revisions are based on and it is to include as a guide you submit to the town council president and the clerk of the council the resolution proclamation four weeks in advance to Ensure that it can get through the process By the time you want it through the process, but that was a guide not a You can't do it after that We had talked about GL seen everything and we had talked about Requiring a resolution proclamation or some those four to have a specific Counselor sponsor them and if there was no actual counselor willing to sponsor then they need to go through the Petition process in the charter to bring it forward Where were the guidelines? We had talked about that these proposed revisions are Based on obviously We can discuss as we see the revisions, but that's that's where these came from. I know that was a long time ago So let's start with rule eight The rules of procedure I have in the packet It's just a copy of rule eight that was last adopted in Revised the August 15th revisions. I'm not sure there was any revision to rule eight for clerk things that we adopted two nights ago and The draft I came up with and you can see since the prior revisions weren't adopted this one showing old revisions This is how long ago I did this draft and but we're looking at the highlighted the yellow highlighted proposed revisions And I would go back and put it into the correct Current version of the rules and and that is in eight point one a under non-emergency measures Proposed the addition of language proposed resolutions proclamations commemorations recitation shall be introduced either by a counselor Sponsor or in compliance with Charter section eight point to be eight point three and eight point five Which are the sections that you could go about? Proposing under the Charter So that was the language that I came up with attempt to come with we're gonna require a counselor to sponsor these these items thoughts on Continuing to require a counselor to sponsor them. I mean that that's that's sort of and then if we are is this language Okay about that document Evan That one. Yes, it's an old version because we've modified the rules multiple times And I just never went and updated to the correct current rules to insert this language But it's the yellow highlighted language. There's a couple of it. Okay. Yes Evan So I like the idea of a counselor sponsor So I think most anything that goes before the council should have a counselor sponsor I Am confused why Charter section eight point two a is not seen as applicable here eight point two a is The non required action Eight point two a is single petitions the resident petitions action discretionary and so if it's submitted there We're since it's discretionary. We don't have to act this this would take away I Guess the way I'm thinking about it is 8.2 a doesn't require the council to act and if there's no sponsor This the person putting forth the petition wants to require the council to act Which means it has to be under 8.2 b because if it was under 8.2 a as many of our proclamations have been they just find a sponsor and You get you get a counselor to say sure I'm okay with putting my name to that resolution and so to me 8.2 a of the single sort of One where the actions discretionary doesn't really apply to this to what we're trying to accomplish with this rule Yes, so basically this is And I would I'm not proposing language revisions, but this is basically saying The council must act on a resolution proclamation Commemoration or citation when it has a counselor sponsor or one of these because in theory someone could still submit a resolution under 8.2 a without a counselor sponsor It's just we would be free to ignore it, but they could still do it. Yes Right and but if they don't get one they could still submit it and then we just have to decide whether or not we're going to get up so this is just That's still a pathway for introduction of a resolution proclamation commemoration and citation It's just these these are the two situations in which the council must act Yeah, I like the counselor sponsor thing, you know, I've made that clear for a while now, but But I do think Resolutions are a little bit different than proclamations I do think we would there's some education that would be required for that because I think when it comes to What we're saying is black history month Tibet and when it right all the Puerto Rican heritage They need to know now to reach out to someone to find a sponsor and I don't imagine anyone would not sponsor those But they just have to know So that's why that fact sheet is going to be really important because they have to know that now They have to actually find a sponsor which is it doesn't feel like an extra level of bureaucracy because those won't be hard I almost see for see much of it being they reach out to The clerk of the council and the president and the president says I'm the sponsor for all these standard ones, you know, which Yeah, you know, and if they're for some reason the president says no then They go to someone else, but I almost see some of these most mostly yearly standard ones as the president automatically saying I'll be the sponsor and I'm going to introduce it So is everyone okay with the language then Okay, the next language that there were two other things to add 8.2 the referral of measures added a new F under bylaws and Which is resolutions proclamations commemoration commemorations and citations all resolutions blah blah blah shall be automatically referred to the GOL The president shall notify the council of the referral at the next regular council meeting this just clarifies The president has been referring them to us now under the current F of the refer a measure to the appropriate committee If the measures deemed to contain minor requests for action, so that's what she's been operating under this would just essentially say No, it's just automatic it comes in It goes We could now that I'm thinking about it All resolutions, I wonder if we want to say satisfying Section 8.1 a So that all resolutions that already have a counselor sponsor or are submitted under that Get automatically referred so that we're not dealing with stuff that don't have sponsors So complying I guess we should say I would add in complying with rule 8.1 a Shall be automatically referred Everyone ready to move on to the next couple things I attempted dad 8.4 discussion of measures So I added commemorations and citations to the exceptions of when we aim to Talk to about them twice any discussion on that proposed change and The next one is under 8.6 consideration of non-emergency measures prior to vote similar to the bylaws I Threw in this one of resolutions proclamations commemorations and citations that we shall not vote on them until they've been considered by GOL, I don't know whether that's actually something we want in the rules I'm like bylaws if something comes so late that we can't This this may actually hamper the ability to So this is one. I think we shouldn't just push right on through and say maybe we want an actual discussion on this because I know There's been concern about whether we should even be reviewing some of these in the first place. So Thoughts on including this or deleting it Well, it just makes clear what we I thought as a body thought should be the case and then it needs to be discussed by the By the council So if it's there And we're okay with it still being there So if I guess the solution is if I'll leave it there For for now, it sounds like everyone's still in agreement with that I'm just gonna put out for the video and public's purpose if for some reason it comes to the council so late the council There's no charter requirement that this happen, which means the council can vote to suspend the rules To formally not comply with the rules There's always an ability to suspend them if the resolution didn't come in time for a go well to have to review it prior Evan To suspend 8.6 2-thirds of the full council may vote to waive the following requirements. Yeah, so Yeah, so you can always vote to It would be by two-thirds Okay So those are the only changes I could come up with based on what we had discussed the last time Does everyone? Is everyone okay with those for now? Are we ready to vote to send them on to the Or do we want to vote a full package after we review the other documents? I Think this one might be the only one that has to go to the council beyond our GL charge so Do we want to vote separately vote each one separately? Yeah, Evan so because I wasn't here on the 21st, which is I think when this was last discussed But and I haven't looked through all these documents yet, which is my shortcoming but the the idea of Having them some amount in advance There's no desire to have that actually in the rules. It's we're going to be in a policy It would be in the FAQ in the FAQ so we didn't want to actually build it into the rules the request for a How far in advance we receive these we didn't want to build into the actual town council rules about these There's a discussion about that. I think the thinking was if we built it into the rules We would have to waive it every time something wasn't met versus just in Handing people who are saying oh, I want a citation for this. How do I go about it? We can say hey if you want to guarantee it gets done in time. We need it four weeks in advance. Otherwise You risk not getting it by the date you want it, but I think we were wary about The formal require making it a formal rule. Okay, so I think the decision was to vote these separately. So we have At this point The rule eight changes rules of procedure And I know they are right now on a document that is not the current set of rules So I will transfer them word for word to the right document for presentation to the council It's just they this is how long they've been sitting here with us postponing this discussion So the rule eight changes. I think the motion would be a motion to recommend town council adopt revisions to rule eight relating to Proclamations etc resolutions commemorations and citations revisions to rule eight proposed at the 9 11 19 gol meeting relating to proclamations resolutions commemorations and citations So I guess since I just came up with the wording. I'll make the motion a second and George seconds Any more discussion? All those in favor That is a unanimous vote 5-0. I will Discuss with Lynn when this can get on agendas as we move forward. So that's this one The next one is the GOL guidelines for review on clarity consistency and action ability This is this one does not have to go to the council. We can just adopt these changes if we desire And this one was a change to action ability A measure will be found actionable if it does not conflict with MGL the Amherst home rule charter or any other law by law or Resolution applicable to the town of Amherst. That's how it currently reads The proposal is to after the home rule charter add into the list of things We are looking at action ability for town council policy, which would then now include our rules of procedure Or any other law by law policy or resolution applicable to the town of Amherst. So we're attempting essentially Expanding what we can consider including the rules of procedure or our flag policy The public ways policy things like that Thoughts Town council policy and then after law by law the word policy are the two additions That's it That I could come up with when I was looking at this one for changes Any thoughts? George town council policy versus policy applicable to the town of Amherst Those are clearly two different Baskets, or could you just say just drop town council policy? I Guess they are the town council policy is a subset of yeah, I thought I had I mean maybe you want to mention it anyway But it does seem a little bit Repetitive potentially It's not a big deal But you have policy twice and one reading it might think well There's town council policy, and then there's policy that's applicable to the town of Amherst Which would seem to be town council would include Yeah Tell that me only suggestion would you could just get rid of town council policy? What others think whether they feel like it needs to be mentioned or not Do the rest of the committee feel it needs to be mentioned separately or do they agree? It's a subset of the word policy is everyone in agreement with just deleting that proposed addition town council policy So we're gonna reject that and so now we just have the word policy being added in Does that sound is that a? Anyone have comments on that one? Okay, so I hear no comments So we are going to then vote on revising this Sorry Pat So it's there from our original drafting of this with the original charge We have a couple of revised charges out there if We go to the document in our packet that's GL charge revised 522 draft revisions on 815 for proclamations You'd have to download it to see the revisions There are two sets of revisions Evan this is the one that we had proposed to have revisions to that was brought to the council and the council pretty much Kind of sat on it and didn't Want gave us nothing didn't seem to want to act or anything This adds changes to that But if we were able to get our charge changed per this There would well, I'm looking at it I think We ended up not proposing policy reviews in that change We can revisit that so I Our our future agenda items is to Come back to that so so I will I will move that up into a sooner future agenda item to come back to That substantive revision of our charge for that discussion again And then talk to the president depending on what we do on when we could get that on a council agenda again But for now, that's why that is in our operations policy because it's not just part of the charge So we're still looking at The document on guidelines for review to add one word Do I hear a motion to revise The GL committees guidelines for review of bylaws resolutions and other measures I think Pat moved that Any discussion All those in favor The eye that is a 5-0 vote our guidelines are revised. I will get Them posted or ask someone to post them to the website with the revision Next is the charge So when we're looking at this charge I Didn't have to highlight anything to show you what the new changes were because Evans If it see if it looks as if it's Evans changes if you can see the changes It's what we propose to the town council already If they say Mandy's changes, it's what I was proposing to add but I will Directly read what I'm proposing to add to this draft charge and Proposed charge. We've already voted the prior Proposed revisions this would add to that and then try and get us back to the council But it sort of is just sitting here and holding right now And it would be to the third bullet point and the third bullet point right now Our proposal that we've already agreed to push or forward to the council says review measures Parentheses including bylaws committee charges resolutions, but not including proclamations and citations and Parentheses proposed for action by the town council for form content and all the rest that we didn't actually change the proposed change now Would have it read review measures Parentheses including bylaws committee charges resolutions proclamations commemorations and citations But not including financial orders And parentheses proposed for action blah blah blah now I know that goes a little bit beyond what we had discussed because I added into this proposal the financial order thing We have not been reviewing them. I Was thinking that really does belong with Fincom and only Fincom So that's why I was like maybe we should as I'm writing this stuff just start exempting that from us Because it is technically a measure and let's just say we're not seeing them and we don't want to see them So that's why that is in there even though I it had not previously been discussed. So I wanted to point that out But that's the proposed Addition change alteration to our already approved proposed change that we as a Committee had had approved So are there any comments discussion on that proposed change Seeing none. I think the motion is to again recommend to the town council that the GL charge be revised in accordance with These changes off the top of your head. You don't remember when we voted to revise this May 22nd, I Think I assume that's what the title says revised May 22nd. So I'm assuming that was the date we voted to revise So it would be revisions to the revisions Which means I can probably pull that last vote language So motion to recommend revisions to yeah, it was May 22nd was our last vote on that and the motion was by George to recommend the revisions to the GL charge to the council And it was a unanimous vote. So I guess the new motion is to recommend the revisions To the GL charge to the council it includes those already and we're just re revising it Do I have a motion So Evan is going to move that Is there a second Pat is seconding Any discussion All those in favor say aye and raise your hands. That is a unanimous 5-0 vote And again, I will work with Lynn on maybe we can bring this up, but I won't do that immediately Because I'll try for next meeting to get a Yet again discussion about GL's charge on policies So that maybe we could bring them all up together and I'll hunt out some of our previous drafts of what that language may have looked like So that then brings us to we had an FAQ on this. I think it is titled resolutions proclamation citations and commemorations FAQ this is drafted by George George. Do you want to? Explain it summarize. Well, I was asked to or I volunteered to create a draft of an FAQ That the public could access and guide them and answer any questions that we could imagine they might have And so that's what I've done and it's now in front of you. It's a draft Any changes corrections, whatever are very much welcome I don't know if people had a chance to look at it much. We could go through it We've talked I think about the first part the four definitions But again, I don't know if everyone is present for that discussion, but we talked about simply defining So number one simply says what are these things and we define each one number two as how can I get one of these things before the council and What I wrote here is the easiest and quickest ways to approach a counselor and ask him or her to sponsor it And then I thought there should be a link to where the current list of counselors second ways to present a resident petition and See charters section 8.2 signed by at least one resident town submitted the council president And here you can correct me if I miss I may have misunderstood all this but This is that kind of petition can is purely discretion of the council. All right. Yep And I don't think I have the third way do I so I recommend adding in You know, I would almost put the second way is I'd put that as a new paragraph Maybe the easiest way is that if you cannot find a counselor to sponsor You may I don't know what the wording would look like present a resident group petition under Charter section 8.2 b Which requires so many signatures and then the council will be required to act Yeah, I mean there's others, but those are the easiest so Are you looking at deleting the the single petition, I think we can leave it but Because it says it's purely the discretion. So yeah, if you Evan I mean you could say something like To ensure action by the council the easiest and quickest way is to approach a counselor And then if you cannot find a council sponsor You could do this and then you could and then later you could say You may also present a resident petition But this action does not guarantee the council will take it or something to differentiate These things like if you if you want to make sure this happens Here's the two ways you can do it if you don't want to do either of these two ways you can do this But there's no guarantee that we'll take it up So you had said to ensure action by the council the easiest and quickest way is to approach the counselor and ask him or her to sponsor it Here's a current list I would actually say a second way is and then that would be 8.2 b To present a group petition see Charter section 8.2 b Signed by at least I think it was 150 I'd have to check 150 voters right voters and then that gets presented to the clerk and the It's spelled out in the charter I'm just trying to mirror your language here because then I can forward out this this revised language Okay, so we'll just say the sign by at least 150 voters Evan what was how did you say you may also you may also Present also present a resident petition signed by at least one resident of the town and Submitted to the council president, but that But yeah, but action is Purely at the discretion of the council. Okay, so I'm right now creating a revised document We'll bring it back next week But at least it'll show what we did so that everyone can see it and we'll try to vote next week How long I'm sorry not next week at the next meeting next meeting How long in advance so you can continue? Yeah, so the next is how long in advance most resolutions by commission citations and or commemorations be presented the council And so again read this over and see what you think since they must be first reviewed for consistency clarity and action ability by the Goal They should be submitted at least four weeks before you wish the council to formally act on them It's custom for go well or a custom of go well to ask sponsors to be present When the committee conducts is from review failure to attend while not required could further delay the review process Do you want to be that that's what I I almost want to delete those last last two sentences Because we haven't been asking partially because we're not even sure who is Bringing them to the attention of the council which makes it hard to then Go back and forth Although we can change our custom if we really want that to be the custom What I thought was evolving was a Situation where people would come before us and we could have a back-and-forth and we would help them Say where they might you know I have some concerns of problems and we could resolve it with them present We don't require it, but we would prefer it and for many this simply may not be relevant or may not happen But it did seem there would be somewhere would very be very relevant right and while they don't have to be present We would it would be very helpful for us and for them if they were present is that I mean at least for resolutions I mean some of these you know I mean that the Puerto Rican day thing or whatever they probably don't need to be present and But I mean if they want to be present that's great, but yeah Evan so I think that maybe we want to say so my first thing is if men to Joe could please add the Oxford commas and Um We'll do but my more substantive thing is It hasn't necessarily been our custom. So I think Maybe deleting that and just say GOL encourages Sponsors to be president when the committee conducts this formal review and Then we add an and may request Sponsor attendance or I think there's something that we encourage them to go But there might be some situations where resolution comes to us and the sponsor is not here and we literally go We don't even know what this means and then we might actually reach out I'm not crazy about the last line because it sounds punitive, but But maybe that's what maybe that we want that You know, I think we also recognize that How we just set things up and many times the sponsors will be counselors Yeah, so to date the sponsors have been sort of and we said normal people residents But but in the future if they have a counselor sponsor It we were probably asking the counselor to actually show up But that would be the sponsor or the sponsor or the counselor may you know Pat may say you know I actually would really like the person who brought this to me to show up But so there's the potential for multiple sponsors. I guess yeah So we yeah Maybe we just need to figure out and think on some wording of that But I like the reformatting to encourages And then figure out how to reference who were encouraging So I'll make a note here Is there any type of consensus on the last sentence? The failure to attend sentence Me does seem to me that at least for some of these if someone has is not present We could very easily be in a situation. We're just don't know what to make of it or we have just practical questions and What would that mean that we would go forward we'd either just We'd have to go to the council and say we can't we can't recommend this at the moment because we It I guess would be clarity or as one of the three Or it could just be we can't recommend it because we don't understand it Or we have some basic substantive questions and the the petitioner the sponsor is not not Responded, I don't know. I don't want to sound punitive. I don't want people to think oh my god We got to be there, but it is kind of reminding them that if they really care about this and we have a problem We can't solve it for them. We can't rewrite it re-edit it That's it. That's a no-no What about sort of a preface phrase of in some circumstances or occasionally or I don't want to say in rare circumstances, but but but indicate that you know on occasion Failure to attend might further do might delay the review process something like that not further delay, but like in some circumstances failure to attend Might delay the review process or something Do we want to put that in some circumstances? Or just failure to attend might delay the review process I kind of like the the The limiting phrase so that it I almost think it sends a little bit of a signal of most of the time Your attendance is probably not going to delay anything. It's not going to be necessary, but occasionally It is going to affect it And we can't describe when or what but just know So in some circumstances Failure to attend okay number four George I think this is Pretty much you just boilerplate and we could take it out or we could make it put all language in What criteria used by Joel and reviewing resolutions proclamations additions and or commemorations? Jill does not address policy again that we there may be an issue there It looks only to see that the submitted text is clear consistent action Well see Joel frequently asked questions for further clarification. The only thing I'm going to request is that we hyperlink to the FAQ So I've just added that as a note in to add the hyperlink so that they can just click on it Next is what happens next Again, it says after its formal review GOL will forward the measure to the full council along with its recommendation for action Usually it would be taken up at the next council meeting But agenda is set by the president of the council and the president may use his or her Discretion of placing placing items on the agenda Why finally why might the council not act on or approve a resolution proclamation citation and or commemoration and This one again. I think we really do have to talk about But it is assumed By me that such measures have some true some direct bearing on the time hammers the end or its residents She's never never let me do this But this is good. I mean, you know measures You know, but I think this is healthy. Anyway, which do not mean that admittedly very broad Would likely be rejected or not acted upon at least by me But final discretion is up to the full-town council acting in light of the recommendation So I think something we should talk about Evan you seem to have some thoughts Well Evan reads it. I guess I would think to potentially add Something about the council not agreeing with a potential policy proposed in The resolution or proclamation or you know the underlying policy It's always possible that there isn't a majority. I don't know how you'd word that but but addressing the hey You might not have counselors that actually agree with what you're proposing and that is a way a reason we wouldn't adopt You might not have a majority of counselors. I mean, I like this language about We're hoping it bears on Amherst I would leave it pretty big and pretty general if you feel that something like this is appropriate I I feel it is but that's just me speaking for myself now that I'd like to make some you know Just out there to the public that you know This should have some Bearing in the end probably anything people bring forward to lark you that's some bearing on the town of Amherster as residents Whether it's about nuclear war whether it's about you know, whatever that the issue happens to be So maybe this isn't really we could just get rid of it Evan or Pat Pat looks like she wants to say something Mike Mike Mike Mike use your Mike. I will not get yelled out by another counselor I I as somebody I know George has a different opinion in some ways about Resolution measures like these. I think they're important and I don't want Residents to feel that there are some litmus tests that they have to pass So I have a little bit of trouble With this The I mean if it what would not Pass this broad test, but there's something a little Condescending as sweet as you are George about that line Other thoughts I'm struggling with this one to be honest. I I'm struggling. I think that The the entire reason we're doing this is there was a request from the council to have such a policy and That request came most strongly from Alyssa Who felt that in her experience they received? proclamations citations all of that that They were like we're not gonna act on this and so I do think to some extent there may be some merit and Forecasting to people the types of things we expect proclamations resolutions commemoration citations for so that You know we don't But I also don't want to limit people's ability to submit them and then we just Vote them down. So I guess there's a couple things here. So one is Why that might the council not act on or approve? So those are very different things and so approve is is I don't know You know We're gonna not acting on it is different And in fact, we kind of it kind of gave the impression that as long as you get a counselor sponsor or 150 signatures We will act on it. So it seems like the only reason we wouldn't act on it is If they don't do those two things and then it's sort of up to the discretion of the president and I don't know that we're dictating for the president how to choose and and there's some That's tough to do, right To choose whether or not to act on it or not And I actually think Joelle at some point has to take that charter have a discussion about 8.2 a Because you know, we've received things that we haven't acted on and others that we have and I don't it's the president's discretion Anyways, that's a whole other discussion But this does seem like such a broad test that I don't even know what would To me we're also reading this direct bearing on the town of Amhersters residence. So would that flag resolution have met this standard? Well, it depends on how you define that I mean if we have residents of Native American heritage, maybe that that is that a direct bearing though I mean, it's it's so it's one of the George who I know likes for rules to always provide clear guidance to people This this feels to me like it's open to such interpretation that it doesn't necessarily Say anything, but I do kind of like the idea of giving people an idea of What we expect these things might contain what would be reasonable to submit versus Joe down the street Convincing me to do a commemoration of Joe for being awesome, right? Like is it possible then instead of to ask the question? Why might the council not act on or approve a resolution? instead of that question, maybe the question is What resolutions proclamation citations and our commemorations are appropriate to submit or you know, I mean, that's that's then getting into a definition, you know of what or You know I'm not even sure that's an appropriate question to ask but maybe that's more of what this Answer is trying to get at then the question that is asked Steve we have another approach is to say these are the Resolutions proclamation citations and commemorations that have been passed Oh Can I you know examples of prior resolution site proclamation citations and and and we give two or three examples of each kind Of course, then we fight over what the examples used are but But maybe that's a solution George I'm sorry, my mind results were for a moment if you just just rim that by me one more time I think Steve's proposal is to delete six. Yes, and instead give examples of Resolutions proclamation citations or commemorations that have been passed by the council So for citations, it could be the one citing the service of the VFW chairs or President whatever they were called, you know resolution we could give a A You know the hundred percent renewable as one, but also Something else it was the Trump one of that town meeting passed But you know or drones or something proclamations the heritage day or the lgbtq Day and commemorations. I'm sure we've got some examples somewhere. I I don't think there's any reason I don't think listing a list is Really going to be that helpful Personally, but I want to sort of defend this a little bit more Because You know we're the town council of Amherst. We're not the United Nations. We're not the legislature of the state We're not and I guess I do feel that when people bring these sorts of things to us There should be some connection in some reasonable way to To the town and its residents and while that's a pretty broad You know cat, you know, it covers a lot of ground I kind of would like I just feel like it would be worth stating if I can convince the rest of you to agree with me Keeping the language broad in general not trying to scare anybody away but just tell them look we are the town council of Amherst, okay, we're 13 people and you know We can think of some examples as Steve suggests and what might be something that I mean you think of the flag Flag resolution think of the Tibetan, you know, we have a Tibetan community in Amherst The flag is the flag of the state of of Massachusetts. It flies in this room. It's here in this room, right? I believe yes, there it is So, I mean, you know, that's arguably relevant to I mean so whether I agree or disagree with that particular Resolution it seems to pass a very broad test But it does seem that there can be things that at least an illicit experience Which is far greater than than the rest of us There have been things in the past that have come to the select board have come that just seemed totally inappropriate And so I guess this is my, you know clumsy attempt to sort of say look You know, this is who we are and so there should be some something that connects us to this as the town of Amherst Not as the human race not as you know, we're not the town council of humanity. We're not the town council of the world We represent this these the people of this town and so if you bring you something that that really doesn't bear on The residents of this town in any reasonable way Please don't bother us. Okay, that just but we're not gonna list a bunch of things that you can't bring And we're not gonna list a bunch of things that have been, you know, we have accepted Just sort of it, you know, I probably will have absolutely it wouldn't have any impact probably on the very kind of people that I'd like to deter So you might argue that, you know, it's just a waste of of space and time But I just feel strongly that look I mean, that's why I put it there Yeah, so these are all reasons to vote no or vote yes But I'm not sure the reasons to keep the council from seeing the resolutions And I think that we will Disagree on, you know, whether like the flag thing is perfect like that's not really our purview But if 350 once however many communities there are all past a similar resolution that sends a really strong message But where was I gonna go with that? Scanning like the ones that I think would be completely appropriate that we believe that Springfield should have more something Springfield and more trees buying some other community or right country or whatever what they were so ridiculous I don't think we'll ever get those but I think that everything else Yeah, I mean that actually is I mean there could be things that Springfield or whatever should close their blanks because So I'm looking at our time and our agenda Sounds like we need to think about number six more as each individual So I would welcome at our next meeting Multiple versions of what number six might look like Feel free for people to bring them and if you want to send them just to me I will then create a compiled document of Options so people then can see them but without knowing who brought what But think about it see if anyone's got some suggested wording or what we could do about This question that is asked here splitting it up not splitting it up a potential other question of what is appropriate like What the more I'm looking at this I think this is a document that does go to the council for adoption Not just us As us saying here we're putting out an FAQ I think this is something when we bring the rule eight changes to the council We bring this and say you guys ask for changes. Here's our our changes here But we also created this document that we would like the council to adopt as it's sort of FAQ on This agenda item Does that sound like an agreeable plan to people? I don't have a problem showing telling them what we did and having them read it, but I'm a little Has it turned about giving them the finals? I mean it's after all this is right So we do have a recommendation about four weeks in there and That that's not in any other rules some of the others are the rules but the definitions So we come to them and say here's what we've created. What are your thoughts or we come to them and we say You know are you approve this or you don't approve it and I guess um, I feel again that We definitely listen and objections we would take very seriously and we would you know, maybe go back and revise Um, and so maybe the difference isn't that great, but I just kind of a little Touchy about this idea that somehow everything we do has to go back to the council and they have to say oh, yes, that's okay Um, they should be informed and we should and there should be conversation um, I don't know Maybe others feel differently In the end, maybe it's the same in other words if we go and they they don't like it and they say and they brought it down They'll obviously tell us why and then we have to go back and fix it. So Shall we hold this that portion of the discussion too until next week? Since we're not going to be able to finally act on this document evan you wanted to say something I guess it can be helped until next week. I had two other probably small changes. I like one is in the definitions um So things like a resolution is a formal expression of opinion or intention made By a formal organization a legislature a club or other group Could that just be by the town council? And then a proclamation is official declaration issued by The town council to make something like the the people who are issuing these it seems like this is for the town council It's a personal person. I think that that is a sensible suggestion And then my one other one, which is honestly minor, but we should be modeling best practices Is instead of him or her could we just use a gender neutral then? Sure, so Absolutely ask them sponsor. So that's under two and then the other one is wherever the president is Yeah, no that was in four five Five right the president may use their description right there. Okay fine. That's good And so I will send this out to george since george created this initially Okay, I'll probably accept all of these changes That I've been doing so people can see a clean copy too, but I'll get you the word to george So that you have and then you will post it This will be posted to this one with six still there with nothing there And the changes that we've been making Will be posted for everyone to view. I guess yeah, so it needs to go to george Who's going to come up with a better wording about sponsors in number three? I guess that's why I'm sending it to george the comments that I added about those You'll deal with except for number six. That's everyone's agenda Um, and then you can post it to the next Fine packet. Um as non-track changes or whatever So That moves us through number three I'm two number four, which is the full public ways policy on flag raisings and commemorative flags And there is no draft changes to this yet. There is just some Here's what's been going on Um And there's a whole bunch of documents about here's what exists And so the current public way policy is in there I don't think we need to look at that directly right now until we figure out what we want to do um We have George's drafted town of amherst flag policy The document and then there were some pdf's that had Select board essentially packet items that george in this word document attempted to Summarize So that's that's where we're sitting So I think we should all just be looking at the current town of amherst flag policy dot doc X or whatever and when it has the word document And george do you want to talk about this? Yeah, again, I just tried to and the summary really Yeah, it's a summary of what I got from looking at all the documents that mandy sent me in that the town That angela forwarded from paul And again, we should look obviously with great care and make sure I haven't missed anything I think there are a couple of things already that are not quite right um for instance Puerto Rican flag How long does it fly? And we've made a decision on our own just On monday, so But there's essentially as far as flags go there's the The un flagpole that we have some Say over and this is what currently flies On those two poles and it's pole number two, but I've numbered number two that has options And this lists at the moment what I understand to be What is put up? And um I'm not clear on how long flags are supposed to fly It doesn't seem to be It seems to vary from Instance to instance and that's fine, but there's no I assume the black history month flag flies throughout the whole month But I don't know that for a fact. Maybe it says it somewhere Um, then we have commemorative flags that are put up What is it? seven times a year And the one that was most contentious was the one regarding 9 11 And I just make a note that this should probably include bunker hill day june 17th As well as presidential inauguration day every four years Because there's a select board policy to that effect. Um, I'm not aware of any formal written policy, which is why you're getting this And if there is one it'd be nice to find it, but I don't think there is And so, uh, I've just Found a few items That from these so the only one specifically had to do with the half staff What what are they right and that was decision by a former town manager These decisions largely seem to have been made by the select board over time And they've changed their minds as you if you go through all these documents, especially with 9 11 They changed their minds a lot But half staff seems to be under the domain of the town manager, which seems fine Um, and we apparently according to paul we get directives from the state We're on some kind of listserv or something which tells us when certain flags are supposed to be flown at half staff and for how long And then as I mentioned one of the ironies of all the at least the 9 11 policy or the policy is that the Select board adopted a policy on the day before 9 11 Which is the one quoted here that was voted on the monday before that day before So This isn't a policy. This is just a summary and description I imagine some point we could try and turn it into a policy It probably should be looked at by paul at some point to make sure that that this is what he understands to be the case And that it bears resemblance to reality It does I think elissa would point out that our policy then Does that have immediate impact on town staff because they have to take the flags up and take them down So I think in one case the flags are kept up for fairly lengthy period Just because it makes it easier for them rather than having to take them down and put them back up I don't know what thoughts people have having looked at this either now or previously But what I tried to do is just Hopefully accurately, but I'm not convinced of that Summarize the current situation And give you a brief summary of the debate over the 9 11 flag or the 9 11 policy So what the one view was versus the other any initial thoughts Well, if there's a question mark there because I really don't know that's true So the Tibetan one flew for a full week Based the Tibetan one flew for a full week based on the proclamation. We passed the Puerto Rican day one We'll fly for a full week based on what we passed two nights ago. I think the lgbtq one flew for a full week Based on I'm not sure again if I look at the proclamations. I think yeah, I think we need a policy I think our policy should be what you know, we need to amend the public way policy One of the things as george was going through I heard the town manager domain of half staff We should probably put that in the public way policy that the half staff is We're ceding to the town manager the decisions on half staff flying the us flag at half staff And I think for the polls we need a specific policy That policy could include if we're going to put special flags up it needs to be within proclamations initially One benefit of something like that would be that A person that wonders why We're flying the Japanese flag or why we're flying the lgbtq or why we're flying the Puerto Rican flag Can find an actual proclamation that spells out why the town council voted that instead of just Well the town council had a motion that said yes You know and I think that gets also then to potentially the free speech areas of well We've just said proclamations need a counselor 150 signatures and then we voted that To either pass or not and oh the flag wasn't part of that and it didn't pass so the flag doesn't go up So I think we need to turn what you've written which george is a fantastic summary of where we are Um and and all into Who's in charge of what when they're in charge of it how it looks for the decisions? um either I think it can be a some a Partially part of the current policy we've adopted as revisions and partially as a separate Here's the holidays that are just adopted Um, and maybe that's a separate resolution that says here's the town council adopting a resolution of commemorative flags be it resolved will fly These days the town managers in charge of figuring out the logistics around that You know, maybe it's drafting a separate resolution for the council to pass for flagraising For these things um In perpetuity one that says from now on And Until amended. Yeah, these are this is our resolution for these flags um Coming back and turning this into those two or three documents that we need to send to the council Um I'm happy to work with you. I'm happy to try and do it myself if you don't Well, I think you've got a lot in here. Yeah, no exactly right. I think we should try and share some of the burden here Um So you and I will speak and if you'll perhaps provide me with a model I can follow But I should probably continue to carry this on until either it's no longer being productive And just make sense for someone else to to pick it up, but let me try to craft something and let me work with Mandy on this I guess this makes sense to me Does anyone have any suggestions of what might go into How long would our standard policy be for raising a flag on flagpole 2 the un poll Like is there some that we don't want anything less than a day or anything less than a week like Does anyone have any potential or we could just let george come up with some potential guidelines And present it at the next meeting I think we're linking this we're linking this to a specific town Uh resolution right there must be a motion or something by a The town council with a specific date and language, which we assume would include A flag right and that would also include I assume a length There might be a standard length that we will adopt just for the sake of there might be reasons at some point to make it Shorter or longer, but rather than maybe saying it must be x length or y length Um, just assume that whenever these resolutions are passed by the council, it would include You know, how long it would fly And as you said it's possible that there might be no I mean might say we're going to you know recognize x But there's not going to be a you know, there's no flag connected to it So we're going to leave this Evan Sorry, I haven't had enough coffee today. I'm trying to wrap my head around what we just what we're deciding right now So it sounds like we're saying that We're going to revise our public ways policy to specify that The flag polls and what goes on them is the purview of the town council We're also going to have a resolution Or an order or something where it has to be a resolution that would say Henceforth These dates fly these flags And the town manager and staff are responsible for putting them up and then we're also going to have Some third Policy that's maybe part of our proclamations policy that basically says if you want a flag that isn't covered by this resolution which of our like Fourth of july commemorative flags all of that then The intention to raise a flag and the dates need to be embedded within a proclamation that's adopted by the town council So there's is that what you're envisioning is the three you said at some point two to three to in documents And those are the three I'm trying to figure out the logistics here I was hoping it could be done in two one of revising the Public ways policy to deal with when we keep the decision when the town manager gets the decision because that sounds like there might be Some decisions we won't see like half staff if we want to push that off the town manager special flags on poll two us You know commemorative flags us and then we'll and then maybe it needs to be in the um We just adopted rule eight changes But I I think the public way policy might be able to somehow distinguish that flag raisings You know adoption of raising or agreement to raise a flag or that passage would be included in a resolution You know, so it wouldn't be a standalone motion It would be be a be it resolved resolution um I don't I'm not sure exactly what it would look like right now But I think we can have that one and then we can have this the resolution that will create for the current sort of standard policy for the commemorative flags to sort of re-establish What the select board policy was on the commemorative flags that are out flying today actually And and so that there's sort of a new start to That policy with a resolution There might need to be a couple resolutions depending on what we do But I think that's the one and then maybe revisions to our own FAQ On proclamations resolutions. We might be able to add a Question to that FAQ. We just said we'd talk about next week next meeting on What how I've seen flags special flags flying in town. How do how do I get that to work? That could be potentially an answer within that if we're going to try and put flags Flying into resolutions. We could add that to that FAQ. So that might be the third document potentially Yeah, I think we have to see something with the changes and the proposals and writing this gives us though a fantastic Thing of where we are So Thank you for that George. Any other questions before we move on? So that's four five was work groups. I'm going to postpone that to the next meeting To for us to re-talk about based on what The attorney town attorney said and what was said at town council Before we bring it back to the council for a second reading Six was the referral that we just got yesterday. We'll do that next meeting I'll put that up higher so that we can get that back out to the council I think we can deal with that next meeting public comment I see none Adoption of august 25th and september 4th minutes. We do not have the september 4th minutes So we are only looking at the august 25th august 21st minutes. Let me rephrase that So So do I hear a motion? I would move that we adopt the minutes of the august 21 meeting Is there a second? So that was george and pat any discussion All those in favor raise your hand and say aye. Aye. That is five zero We will get to september 4th next meeting anything not in there is one thing It's not really not anticipated, but it's not something it is schedule a meeting schedule I am going to cancel the october 9th meeting. It is yam kapoor And so we will not meet on october 9th I'm Waiting so long to cancel because I'd like not to have to reschedule that meeting I'd like to just be able to cancel it But if we need to reschedule it my schedule requires that it be rescheduled on october 2nd So I I want to just sort of Get to people Does does that date work does that date not work? um Because if not that solidifies a decision as to whether we reschedule or not I'm asking about cobert. I'm sorry. I'm asking for a second. Is available. It is available for me It's not for pat steeve. It is available for you. So it's going to be tentative I would still like to not have to hold it, but I will make that decision after our next GOL meeting which would give me About a day two days to post But please put it in calendars As tentative as tentative and I'm sorry the next meeting is the 18th So our no our next our next our next gol meeting right now is the 20 Fifth we have a meeting on the 25th And we will tentatively schedule a 10 30 to 12 30 meeting On october 2nd Yes, evan Question number one just because I missed it george you moved to the minutes who seconded pat Second thing since we're putting off work groups, then Do we know that the council is not taking work groups up at the 23rd meeting? Agenda setting is today. So I will tell Lynn. We're not ready. I will tell Lynn. We're not ready Since we didn't get to it any other questions Comments Then we will adjourn The meeting at 12 26 p.m Thank you all