 Good morning intrepid puppeteers and puppets supporters welcome Here we are for our second panel of our festival the Sunday morning of our first weekend There has been so much activity a little bit of head spinning of course, so very excited to convene and take a moment to Have a time for the artists who have been performing the passable days to talk a little bit about their work and the materiality of it so I'm Blair festival director and with my colleague Paula Richards we devised this idea of this Some posing in different capacities and just to point us out. We also have book talks by Four different Authors well, actually, there's yes, there are four different authors who have published books This past year by Rutledge on puppetry and our next one will be featuring Paulette and that will happen on Tuesday afternoon is that 430 five four four three check your program Tuesday afternoon here in this room and so Dacia Posner is here and going to moderate today's this morning's program and Dacia is a puppeteer and a scholar from Northwestern and has helped out Over the years with all the stuff and very very honored to be able to have her here as well So I'll turn the morning over to you. Take care Fabulous welcome all and thank you for coming I'm so pleased to be here with all these amazing artists having seen all your shows yesterday And special thanks to Paulette and Blair for organizing and celebrating and generating these conversations Today as Blair mentioned, we're focusing on the materials of which puppets are made and how we listen to materials and interact with materials and Let me tell you a little bit about the structure Each of the artists is going to talk a little bit about their work Sometimes by showing images sometimes by explaining their philosophy sometimes by showing puppets and I'm going to give each of them 15 minutes 20 minutes or so to say whatever they want to say about their work Then I'll ask some questions and then we'll turn it over to you because I'm sure that you all are gonna have lots of Questions and curiosities as well, especially if you saw their work yesterday or earlier in the weekend the three companies today are There's Maria Trisulistiani, who's the co-artist artistic director of Paper Moon puppet theater in Indonesia There's Jacqueline Seraphine and Ikea Vincent a the co-founders of the Mexican theater company La Liga Teatro Elastico And there is Iranian American multimedia graphic artist filmmaker and puppeteer Hamid Romanian So those are the folks that we're going to be talking with today And I'll leap right into our first our first artist. Okay. Yeah Yeah, okay, okay Okay, so Paper Moon puppet theater was founded in 2006 in Yogyakarta, Indonesia by co-artistic director Ria Trisulistiani Who's an illustrator and a children's book writer and a former theater performer? Sulistiani has since nurtured and developed and expanded the company with co-artistic director Iwan Effendi Who wasn't able to be here today because of a sick child puppeteer? He's a visual artist and Paper Moon's puppet designer and We're very lucky to have Ria here today together with a company of collaborators Sulistiani and Effendi have experimented with many kinds of puppetry they're committed to Extending what puppetry can mean with their mixed media productions and to creating works that imaginatively explore Identity and society Paper Moon also presents its artworks through visual art Installations and shares knowledge through collaborations and workshops for all ages in 2008 They initiated an international Biennale festival called Pesta Poneca meaning Puppet Festival and or feast and or party Paper Moon has presented its productions in Indonesia as well as in more than 20 countries in over the past 18 years With the Chicago International Puppet Theater Festival is their most recent stop Many of you will have seen the brilliantly poetic production this weekend a bucket of Beatles Ria welcome So I prefer to stand up because I'm small So and also for me to eat to be easier to watch this so today We'd love to present you the process of a bucket of Beatles this process is pretty special for us this performance is Quite different with our other's performances process because it came from our At that time he was four years old boy imagination. So Shall we start with this one? Get into bigger slides Okay, so in the beginning of it it well actually the idea came from Lunang He's actually my son and he was four at that time and he got obsessed with insects so much and since Inside my belly he got in used to work with the other members of Paper Moon Puppet Theater who's there and we travel a lot We you know like he watched he understand all the process of making performances So one day he asked me when he was four Can I do a performance with Paper Moon as well and I asked what is your proposal and he started to to talk about? Oh, I would love to make a performance about Rani sir's bill that tried to find a new home So she's like hmm interesting. Let's go deeper about it So these pictures are actually what happened every day. This is our daily life that he keep drawing insects in many different I don't know what's like Latin names whatever and he keep doing it And then we we visited some exhibitions about insects exhibition what I found also very interesting in Indonesia We're not seeing insects as a as an important thing, you know, because maybe abroad it becomes exotic because it's you know It's an animal from other part of the world But in Indonesia because it's so much so many in Indonesia We even felt that it's it's a pest for us people get you know get rid of it We just pesticide our plants whatever So it's very rare for us to understand about insects and when a little boy are having this idea about These teeny tiny creatures that people keep kills in in the farms and it's becomes it's a becomes an You know for me it becomes an environmental calling So every night actually me and my son we keep making story telling like a duet and I recorded to my phone So it's just like you know like it's it's very it's improvisation of storytelling that I came up with this And he came up with these characters and we keep building that you know stories next and When we did that process as our you know parenthood situation One day we got invitation from Yokohama In Japan that they would love to have us perform But only for perform for people can come and at the time we didn't have performances with only four people usually seven Usually six so we don't have any performance with four and what we found very interesting in Japan rhinoceros beetle become a very very expensive pets and Then in one of the exhibition that we visited we found that there is a person in Jogja in where we live His job is actually exported insects So I sent Benny can you rest your hand, Ben? There you are I I sent Benny Benny go to this person's place and then get you know More information about this business and then it became very interesting because we found like how we how How they catch the insects in the forest what makes Them you know what kind of nature sign that told them that it's a danger So if you manage to come to a bucket of beetles There is one scene where there's two Insect collectors we call it like this local person that collects insects and once they saw this big giant moth And they found that it's it's a danger for it for them It's a sign from the nature they have to escape because that what happened to these people because when they they try to to catch the insects with Piece of cloth with lights so all the insects came to that cloth and then when they catch it They saw this big giant moth and then suddenly they watch they saw red eyes and those those are the tigers So that's what we find very interesting through the journey of our research Not just only from a perspective of a little boy, but also how insects are actually Leave in the cycles in Indonesia. That's what we found very interesting So those journey ended up with a very simple performance only three person on stage and even my husband the co-artistic director He become the music director and music operator So it was only me Benny and Luna my son performing on stage at that time So the sets are very simple It's just a piece of paper so like big paper and then we already combined like shadows and also We here I was already there. So we hear the characters of the performance is since The beginning is already there next and Then the pandemic happened When the pandemic happened we changed the version of a bucket of beetles into a cinematic version So in this moment, we also explore further about the materiality of the puppets itself So at that time because we me and the team were saying, okay, we cannot buy any materials We don't have money. There's no tour. There's no performance has happened next So we decided as you see, this is our studio. We are we are surrounded by little Forests I can say so we have plenty of materials around us Which is twigs and branches and then we decided and then at that time we decided, okay Maybe we can start the idea of making the puppets through Lunang's drawings to these insects that he draw and then Anton Can you raise your hand Anton our? our technical engineer and the head of puppet making in our studio the puppet designer he got Frustrated with the drawings that Lunang's made because it's very hard to follow those lines And then he decided, okay, maybe we have to make it more natural so he decided just to pick some twigs and branches that fall down or like dry and then he started to Ensemble those twigs to make a puppets next So what we found very interesting through those drawings and then through these drawings and we we kind of like Interpreted into three-dimensional rather than to paint them We decided to use threads because we saw that's how he put the colors in the crayons So it's like messy crayons. So made messy threads on the drawings and because it is Cinematic so everything can go very small and very detailed and then of course because of that also because of our Situation that we decided not to buy anything next and these are yeah the shadow puppets then so we add all the natural materials as the sets and also the materials of our puppets Every single thing like all the rhinoceros beetles everything so you can see that this is really like the day of our Shooting we just go out like okay. What kind of twigs we can take and just take and put it So what is storyboard? We don't have storyboard just like kick it off kick it off Just do it and try so this is what we are making So natural materials child's drawing and no restriction for custom and declare in the airport Makes a big freedom for us to create the puppets and the performance cinematically at that time This piece then travel a lot to many international festivals around the globe online and then next those festivals ask us to make the live version of it and We decided okay. Let's start with Indonesia with our own country first. So we still use our Puppets that are actually built using those Crazy materials, of course it will be including you know like termites or whatever inside it Because as you see it's it's definitely it's everything's are I mean all the puppets were actually really made out of branch and Twigs so we made this performance. We made a video of it because it's a very different version with the cinematic one It's a very different language. It's a very different medium so we decided to make a new piece next and then and Then the sets because we are already start to think about the traveling. We cannot bring those Trees from those wooden houses in the film to be built on stage. So we decided to change everything with Fabrics so for for the screens and also for the trees We start to make with the fabrics and it's all foldable because we're started to think about touring next and Then we travel to Two cities well Jogja in Jakarta in Indonesia. We perform in two cities Of course, there is no problems with the custom and declare So we still kick it off still doing what we're we still keep the materials as it is With our branches and twigs and then next we got invited with International festivals like Sydney and now Chicago before we come to Chicago We flew to Sydney we perform there and for your information Australia had the most Craziest custom declare situation for plans and twigs. Oh The craziest cannot cannot cannot especially if you go by plane. It's impossible. It's impossible to pass it so, okay, let's think about it and then we decided to change and in the beginning They said, okay, maybe you can send it over a shipping so we can do fumigation and everything on the flight No, I don't want to take a risk. So today we bring and then we decided Anton with hack Actually, how can you raise your hand? There you are. It's another puppet designer for us from us So we decided to make can you stand up bamboo? So this is pambu the puppeteer of the rhinoceros beetle and We decided to change everything so we get rid all of This crazy situation of the twigs and branches. So we made it out of Aluminium and then we do papermache on it and We colored it with washi paper. It's a Japanese Handmade paper to make the color still natural as well because we found that with with paints It will be it's it's a different journey. So we decided to do that in that way. We do have another one, right? We do have to so Next slides, please So these are the process of it out. Yeah, this is how so this is the grasshopper and that's yoga so that's That's the the pirate grasshopper. So this character again came from Lunang story that after he got attacked by the mantis and the red ants He got fixed by a spider doctor and it ended up with become a pirate grasshopper Okay, we'll do that. So it's again all the materials made out of those Aluminium and it's something that we never did before because we usually do retin For our for our puppets especially. So these are the sketches as you so these are the this is the original drawing of our puppet designer The now he is eight so this is an eight years old boy and then all the uncles Kind of they make an yeah Interpret that drawings into this a technical drawings Next because there are some mechanism inside it Pumble if you so there's some mechanism inside the puppet. So for example the rhinoceros beetle can fly and it can wiggle the the The legs and also the wing So there's some mechanical mechanism inside for that and The other thing that when we design our puppets and our sets From the beginning we are always thinking about touring. We are always thinking about putting them inside suitcases so all of these puppets are Could be dismantled and then all can fit inside the suitcase. So this is our custom and declare situation So this is our I can say what we can each each each suitcases They have this kind of material. So what's inside each suitcases? So that's also makes us easier to repack and pack and repack. So, yeah Even the trees usually maybe we have to ask the local host to collect branches for us But then we found like no just make everything so everything made out of aluminum basically and covered next So, yeah, so that's that that's what coming from us to open the discussion. Thank you Thank you so much. It's so interesting you know and you get a sense of the It you can see from the the design you can see from the the way that you're in interact with the Materials that there that there's a history that you can sort of suspect But to hear you talk about it is really lovely Yeah, yeah, so, okay, I'm gonna go on to the next to the next artists Jacqueline Sarah fun in Ikea Vicente are the founders of Mexican theater company La Liga teatro elástico Which creates work based on objects and animated figures Seraphine is an actress and stage director and Vicente is an artist and puppet designer beginning with an interdisciplinary Sensibility La Liga develops projects that exist somewhere between sculpture theater performance and teaching their events meld object performance and children's theater and participatory street theater with games and celebration as a strategy for new foundations and meanings inside the museums and theaters and urban spaces where their events take place They have participated in International festivals in the Americas Africa and Europe with their plays installations and workshops making frequent collaborations and co-productions with other artists and companies in 2019 they received the prestigious award for excellence in stage design at the Prague quadrennial of Performance design and space here at the festival They presented the beast dance or the secret spell of the wild which merged spectacle and community interaction To revive the ancient dance of the hunter and the prey Jacqueline and Ikea we're so happy to have you here today What we thank you Thank you Now we wake up What? We have some some image that we but it's not so organized that like like Ria so You can see it while we we talk a little bit Yeah, we were thinking material is a great idea for us. It's very very important So we we we try to put all our ideas and the ideas that we have Finding in many founding very many thinkers and in the experience to to to try to to open the discussion so so for us Yes material is is like a form of life is is is is is a living being all the material then and So we have to What's like is something that is in tension something that has that's that is like in Something in tension I say to have tension to have it you need at least two points, you know So there's something that is in in in the mirror that is And you can make music with that not time so it's like elastic That's also so in between this maybe the first relation that we Classic relation for a visual artist is material and form What do you what what do material? What's what the material like what what is the form that you you want to make and usually usually? Well, there's there's an opportunity for dialogue because if you if you want to You can use material like like a slave you can say you will do this and then you have to find a slave a very good slave or Someone that produces slaves to you that only make the thing that your great idea that you have in your head And but that that's not the way that we like to we like to dialogue with with the we think that that we have in front because they told many Beautiful things more that the the things that usually our things in the head are like flat are very common things so we like to dialogue with material and that that has given lead us to this this journey and I don't know and and the other You propose he proposed like different dialogues For example material form material space material time material memory and Just to we we talk about that just to kind of make Analyzes, but we realize that everything is Together so we we are I I'm going to Read something about this idea of a material and life Because my English is not so well, so it's faster like that So it is not surprised that the things objects and materials have a memory A certain mnemonic charge today There are several studies in etnology that others and another science that discuss are discussing this know an Example is the etnologies theory or not in this text of Biography of the object where the process he proposes a methodology to study the object in hits becoming I Hope it is clear that This work of observing the path of things allows to allows us to observe the their agentivity and Multiple changes of status a status putting in some way in doubt doubt The ordinary categories with which we classify them usually with classified in Western Yes, so it is very interesting to me and to us all these Theorical discussion because we we come from Mexico and in Mexico In our country our country have a particular relationship with things in First of all the conception of the world of the indigenous people does not distinguish the categories as they are known in West I mean a wolf is not above the trees a tree a tree. It's not less than a man so the living things the Includes other things like stones or rivers or it doesn't matter what and I Firmly believe that this conception of the world influences a lot all Mexican culture Because as you know, Mexican culture is a mixture of different things But I think this conception of the world came from indigenous people in it's very Very hard for us. For example relationship about about food about Yes Especially for example for with the corn we we made we know phrases like we are born We are Childs of the of the corn things like that that not not always I metaphor our metaphors So that's kind of weird. I know but Another delicious heaps for example with the old handcrafts like I don't know pottery, waving and brothery and etc. Etc. Etc. And those are multiple manual labor techniques and are very How do you say embodied in the people so I Think all of this knowledge is intrinsic intrinsically linked to the materials and not yet That in our country have a deep identity charge so we work with these materials and All the things they do they and the other constructors it came from People that they met and for example I Could you explain that the papalotes Yes, maybe because we You can see the the wolves down there. They are made and the deer they are made from bamboo bamboo is a crazy and beautiful material and We learn about that from a from a craftsman that make kites there in He used to make cane with cane, but he discovered bamboo. It's got crazy. He's strong So he he we we get in in some place and he he began to know you have to try bamboo I yeah, so you have to buy a big knife and That's it and I will and you have to bend it with with heat and with oil and that's it Okay, I we we we try try try beto and I we are the principal constructors First beto like he was he loves so much wood and he loves also other or other material that are more that in his tradition Are more more close to him. So at first Let's do in aluminum Yeah But we have an experience Another experience with aluminum. We made like four or five or six big animals in aluminum For because it was for a for a park in For a scarred in cancun, you know, that's tropical tropical So everything goes you you make something with with the wire and why the No, it's not possible So they say no aluminum. Okay, I mean, so I bought a big because there was money. So I could But I bought a big machine for for solving Aluminium was what was we made we made a team for for that so and and it We can draw in space with aluminum like I like that Like you I think to draw in space, you know, so that was great But you know something was so cold and so nasty and some That's I never got there to know to to to to sold my friend. Yes There we have a good So so no soldier. No Well there well there do to well, yes great welder so there are three of us work very well, but There's something that remains that I don't like so when We began to to explore bamboo That's that's that's the thing because this is the mixture between wire like calder tradition that that's what that's my big father And and wood so it's wood that bends, but you have to say you have to you have to say like It's not it's not so easy and but Yeah This is not bamboo This is not bamboo. This is this another branch from Africa from Yeah, because we were working there with with But it's something like that that is much easy Yeah So you For us that construct the to construct a puppet is like an ensign blush Is to assemble different things? No to make Dialogue between different different to to make dialogue different materials between them So so there's the cane. There's the leather. There's the that's the leather leather from a coat I Clean it like it's very nasty for this No, there's a there's a it's through the pandemic. We were living in the country So there's there's a farm there with live with goats with and goats goats go They throw the skin so So they give you care the skin and you learn how to clean and Another time another another friend Another friend give us that the the please the key for for now For knowing how to work with it Because but it's not so complicated. You know, you know, there's craft The is the the craft thing we we get very afraid of it But it's not so complicated. You know, you have to go inside and try it When when I was in the school, I was very very punk and I work with with things like with trash Yes, and put them together. I didn't make well to put it together Then I they I discovered silicone and I put all the things together But then I Became tired about Junk, I don't want to live around with John call the time I prefer the beautiful things and Jacqueline also so she Maybe it could be interesting to talk about the Well, the way of the material link us in this company. It's very interesting because everything came from From Because every every one came from a Tradition for example, his father was Carpenter so he learned when he was a child whole work with wood and for example, my father it was a Talabartero or Sam and they work with leather with my shoes and many things But this kind of letter that we We design with with some some Say I'm a in Spanish. I'm a Caribbean It's not to cut, but to draw Say I'm a cinsela cinsela so many Everyone in this company has a relation For example, he cares he cares father always has an a works Workplace to construct something so it's This practice Came from our our childhood, you know, so and also In months also, which is the person who Who She came to the workshop because she was making Her social. I don't know what from a from a museum. So she was there Socializing and then She she came and she was very she don't like to work to work with wood and about say She she said I know how to work to make crochet. So She begins and wow we say we have to put it into the into the puppets and that all our puppets now So for us is interesting to thinking in our puppets as a Collectivity work because even if he carries out is a Puppet designer or a lead of the company in this way of In the art plastic way Many people has made his his own creativity here. So it's it's a collective work Yeah, if you think also that that that this is Okay Or it's just Yes, I already finished only to say that There are two actually there should be 30 minutes Only to say that is that is collective that is collected in the sense in a more general sense for us It's not only the humans that they were working there. There's a lot of Friends something yes, there are the the plants the animals they go now. It's a it's a donkey Yeah For us is like that For us is that clear like that. There's that the energy of the bamboo is very important the energy of the animals and pieces of cactus very important And they are in other status of living also because yeah the I you know the the ship dies but that it Continues her process of Thank you so much Yeah, you know it's it's it to be continued conversation Because now we're all so eager We have to you know here from the third and then you're gonna be more excited All right much more interesting that I'm glad Come on. Come on. All right Okay Fellowship Understood the immense task of illustrating if you haven't seen it in the you know that On the tables that where this material is all being shown and The immense task of illustrating commissioning a new translation and adaptation by Ahmad Sadri of the 10th century Persian epic poem Saname by but by for a while see into that he calls the Saname the epic of the Persian Kings It was published in 2013 this best-selling art book which the Wall Street Journal calls masterpieces in its second edition in 2018 he released an award-winning pop-up book in English and French called Zahac the legend of the serpent king in 2014 he shifted his focus to theater working with shadow puppets and digital media and today today He has created five theater pieces Including the Unima USA award-winning feathers of fire Which toured to 23 cities around the world including to an earlier iteration of this festival and in 2019 he was commissioned by yo-yo ma silk Road ensemble to create a video animation for their new multimedia project heroes take their stand Many of you will have seen his latest stage production here at the festival song of the north which features a cast of 500 handmade puppets and an extraordinary ensemble of nine actors and puppeteers who I would say are an orchestra of movement and light How many thank you so much for talking with us today Some maybe got lost in that you haul truck Yeah, so thank you. I wish my presentation would be fun as you are but What we are dealing with with the reflection of the actually Puppets we are not dealing with the actual puppets so whatever we built and we Try to create we have in mind that how it's gonna looks like when you when you Projected into the wall or how you when you cast the shadow how it's gonna looks like My original inspiration for starting doing these things this shadow theater. It was the Lottie Reiniger The adventure of Prince Ahmed, which is the from another Persian story So that was my source inspiration and based on that I start making puppets with the just cardboard things like that and then I got introduced to work work of Larry Reid and I learned some mask techniques and then Before that because I was doing graphic design and movie making and things like that so I combine all this technique together and Start creating a very elaborated So anyway, so start making puppets, but again the puppets usually Combined with a lot of feathers and fairs and the laces and the things like that that sits on Two different material I used throughout last seven years of making these kind of shows One of them was a kind of cardboard. I found that has a plastic material combined into it, which is very interesting is doesn't tear But has a good quality, but overall that was the we had around 150 puppets in song of feathers of fire and after a while I realized that these are a little bit start bending because we travel a lot and Unlike your that you see put in the suitcase ours. We have a five pallets half of this So we have to think oh my god Yeah, we have around the 800 kilogram of material basically when we send things around. Yes, so that's calculate so Some of them we can just show I have a series of the backstage look that how it looks like and then I have a series of the Puppets so the puppets again, and then I discovered another kind of cardboard very like 400 Gram or pound they call it here. I think we call it 400 gram. Yes I'm come from the metric system culture anyway So and then what we do we once we design first and Then when we cut it out some of them by hand something by laser cuts Something what blade cuts and then we cut twice So once you cut first and then you use the very high quality the Photography color gel, which is a reflect very well And those are we put in the middle of it and then we make another cut of the same design and then Sandwiched them together. So and then from here it goes to the I Don't do that the person goes to do the mechanics of the puppet You know, these are the simple ones actually But yeah, these are like so this color that you see this reflect It's are all the color gel. So it's it's like we calculated each puppets Approximately takes like around 16 hours to 17 hours to be built It depends on the size some of them are huge some of them are like this one small But also, you know, we can talk about the design idea behind it But that's maybe takes much longer. We can talk about it, but material wise again. I It's it's something that has to reflect on the shadow if we keep going and looking at my face This is my sample, this is the mask that you were building these are the we use many different materials and finally we found this one It's called siren is a kind of polymer polymer that actually doesn't break Because again in feathers of fire if you keep let's keep going. There's a lot of pictures so like Yeah, oh and also because we have also combination of the human actors and the puppets like some of this Puppets that is exactly became next scene the human So this is very important than the how the lace and the fair and all the nuances and the body work. So it's not just completely black Let's keep going. Let's keep going. Yeah, that's not these are the reflection This is the audience point of view the one you see to before that was there from Backstage our screen is very large. Let's keep going down Yes, see the our screen is the 35 feet, which is translate to a thing 12 meters Or 13 meters to 8 meters tall, which is 30 which is 16 feet so And then also we have a special kind of lens Which is has only one camera and projectors in the world that has Attributes that we can actually get very close to the lens and create still sharp image So based on that when we are actually designing the puppet We have to think about how big we have to make this puppet to make sure that it appears correctly And it's not out of focus that also the measurement is very important Because of the accordance to the kind of like physics of light We have to these are some of the stuff we have to really literally calculate those. Okay This is with the with the calculator. Okay, this is the size you want. This is the small size you want and It depends so and also sometimes you you you want to create depth So it's very easy to okay hold one puppet closer to the light the other puppets closer back So the other side you will feel that they're actually spacing out and they're walking But some of them is not possible. So you have to calculate the other puppet You have to make the same puppet smaller size So you go out is there really far away and there are some of them clothes there's a lot of again math involved with the how to works and also how Things actually appear on stage, which is also another Challenges So let's keep keep going down. Yeah, these are again. These are you know In the shadow theater also sometimes you've seen you can just Cut this simple cardboard and it works But for us, let's keep going For us it's very important because we travel a lot and also this pack and also some of these Puppets they go to a lot of stress when they're acting and also because we have a lot of puppets it has to somehow There is actually hidden choreograph Exists that audience they don't see that how this for instance. We have 208 scenes Which is translate basically 208 stages that is cut to each other. So these are has to be collected put together and Bring the other one put it back on the ground in the right place Right time and did the other actors pull the mask out sit down put together Yeah, and we usually perform in the pitch black Box, but here we just put a second photograph heat turn on the light Yes, so as you can see is a very elaborated and also these are very important that the design comes from the Eastern Mediterranean Sea to the Western of India because this is the air area that it's fluence heavily by Persian art from the last Thousand years Okay, so and I for me was important that not to include any Western material or any way. I'm sorry any vested design into this Composition, let's keep going. So it all comes from there. So when you see it you see something totally Eastern or Iranian or Iranian influence because in West you already seen a lot from the You know European influence, you know, the dominant basically the culture. Let's keep going down Yeah, these are yet, they're very delicate and It's called from my OCDs and my I recently actually I've been here for a long time, but I Recently learned that she's told me that I'm what I call it a no return to Somebody that's extremely the detail oriented Which is I think it comes from my childhood because I used to make paint and I make a lot of elaborated painting So now let's keep going down. Let's keep going. Yes. So. Oh, okay So for instance, the last left side is it's one of the Just eight monsters that we created and by the way because you have two source of light and one light probably is in the Cinematic term would be full shot and the other Cut to the close up of the character like you are far away You see a character and then cut you want to see the close-up. So you have to identical you make two puppets One is for the full shot. One is for the close-up Okay, so so these are again on the left side. This is actually kind of those very heavy cardboard that is actually sandwiched together with the Color gel and then against put together to become very thick. It's almost unbendable and Then you add the mechanics into it. So let's keep going down. Let's see what we have I want to see. Oh, this is like a reflection of the other puppets And also there is a lot of like because on the set these two puppets binding the other puppets So so it's a very challenging actually to hold to actually we're gonna do it on set and live because these are seamless there is This 83 minutes to two minutes show it's 280 can calculate everything has to be Precise right on time and am I good timing? Yes Five minutes. Good. So let's keep going. I want to see some there is another folder I have with a lot of detail puppets like With a lot of laces. Oh, for instance, okay, and the right you see there is a lot of Sequence fabrics. So these are Because at some point there is a character in the in the Story that she sings and put everybody into sleep. So I thought it would be nice to have You know to have some kind of euphoric or Reflection of something light and then also is our mix with the animation That's which another topic because everything that accordance to the animation that we actually created When we are actually writing the story. We felt that how we're gonna choreograph it. So based on those Unlike you don't do the storyboard before we started we do actually 350 frames Storyboard the entire show Is every piece would be certain. There's another folder. I said with a lot of fun Pictures. Oh, yes. Yes. This is the good one. Let's go. It's from the top. I mean just like those images The first three. I wouldn't just the one with the yet that one Yeah, keep going The next one next one. I think the third one not the dance I Huh, you get that laces here to create some kind of It's a nice reflection because the one I you see sharp is actually reflection And I'm actually opposite But depends of the distance of the light. We can make them flew or focus Out of focus but Let's let's see what else. Can I see the entire the There is a lot to talk about you. Let's go. Oh, you you saw this one. Okay. Let's go down. Oh Yes, yes, go to the list. These are actually fun Let's go to the one on the 123 and then we can keep going down. I think I can finish that Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's one. Yeah, that's from the from there You know, the the show start with the war scene, which is only 20 seconds, but we have around like a 38 not to be exact 30 actually eight Puppets perform in 20 seconds. So you create this a mayhem and these are again. These are all with the siren. These are very stressed Put together in the puppets. So he has to be something that doesn't bend and doesn't break and And he can throw away on the ground and run for the next one and bring it back So let's keep going Yeah, go down go down Yes, let's go. I want to show some fabrics and the awesome mask. Let's keep going down. Okay Let's go on the left side of the bird left. Yes And then we can keep going. Yeah, no and bottom one bottom one. Yes. Yes, these are the test So this is like not complete because oh We have a Okay, so see a lot of feathers going on and inside the fairies a lot of color gel So this character when he comes on stage he has a not only silhouette He has a middle of the silhouette. You have some colors oozing out Which is very pleasing to the eyes and also again like design of this bird is actually comes from the pattern from the Persian rock So based on that I designed the head piece So let's keep going to the next one Let's keep going to the next one on the bottom one. Yes No, no, I just get that one. Can we go one after another? Can you just click on the next? Okay, so this is the same. Oh the other one we have a lot of some and some scenes that they are going to sky then read the woman you have a lot of We call it white shadows, which is the shadows like she's white, which is all the reflection to the Mirror that's it might be very interesting that because this mirror has to be some way that you can actually fold it And then you reflect it and then there is actually four people performing To make sure this lights comes in the right place because one person is actually holding the Color gel and one person holding the flashlight the other person holding the mirror moving And there is another guys comes in the middle of this so great create actually that character middle of all this Scene so Yeah, let's keep going to the next one Uh Not this one I don't know why yeah, these are again One more. Okay. Let's go to see. Oh, yes Okay, by the way all these clothes without the costumes that you see in these Slides are all we're stolen. So we have to rebuild them From scratch so as you can see like for instance Also, this character is wearing this Organza type closing that we create something and the top would be empty and the bottom would be more heavy and it's Because the way that she moves if it was too much pattern, it would distract the audience so Again, these are the fabrics and also you can see the All the color gels goes to the mask Like these are like this is like You know both both sides Based on the design You come up with the idea and also these are all inspired like from Torquemann's headdress Things like that if you go Yeah to kingorama.com which is the My website of the shah naume We can talk about it and then Once we start actually I'm gonna like talk to about talk to you about the stories because for me was very It's very important to Anyway, so I think I'm 15 minutes, huh? Yay. Thank you So I I read I read about the uh, I read the new york times article where it talks about the Your puppets all being stolen, but at the end it doesn't say if you got them back No, yes, we we got the we got the meaning the entire Five pallets were stolen Everything everything like three years of work the the song of the north is three years of constant work Not even pandemic stops us. We kept going Uh, yes, they're all gone for four days and then we found that through a lot of adventure and trauma We found a truck But a lot of stuff was missing or destroyed Like some of this mask that you see the bird was destroyed. You had to rebuild it There is another mask was totally decimated The puppets was all on the ground. So you had to repair a lot of them. There's a lot of them broken The props were all gone. The customs were all gone all the Mechanicals like electronics, which is I thought oh, that's the easiest part to actually find it You know called b and h and you find them, but these are many of them They were the discontinued or no longer in the market and it was A lot of challenge literally the day before we ship the stuff to here We found the final projector and without the projector. There is no light and there is no shows. It's not like okay I'm gonna come with literally a day before we ship the stuff to find the final projector in London second hand and then yeah, it's it was a lot of stress to put things together and We did it Yeah, who's story the puppet show You're like you're like I'll take Australian customs, right? I'll take Australian customs But now you're here. We're back All right I want to launch the the conversation portion. I mean, I know so many of you have burning questions You have so many things that you want to ask I want to launch the conversation portion with a question for Each of you that I think is related to everybody's work And so if I'm not directing it to your company, but But you're like, oh no, I have something to say about that too. I think that's a nice way to sort of Organically show what everyone has in common and also if you have questions for each other, I encourage that as well Let me let me tell you a little bit about my own interest and why when I saw this panel I was like Paulette. This is the one I want to moderate So I worked a few years ago. I edited a book with Claudia Orenstein and John Bell Rutledge companion to puppetry and material performance and in that I talk about this idea of material performance that so many of you all of you are engaging with in some way and you know that It was inspired by Kathy Foley who is a yengolek puppeteer based in the u.s Who wrote this wonderful piece in puppetry international called the dancer in the danced which Talks about allowing ourselves to be danced by material Instead of feeling like we have to dance it or we have to control it or we are in charge in the way in which Allowing yourself to respond to material and to treat material as a collaborator Breeds a kind of humility a different relationship to the world And it unlocks creative possibilities. And so that's the place from which some of my questions today are coming Okay, so uh paper moon on your um on your website uh ria that You write that paper moon believes that anything can come alive Every creature every object every single thing in the world holds life in it. This is similar to what you all were saying too And I was and and also that it allows us to nurture the good things Around us and within us now I know I know that that was really largely what your presentation was on but i'm still really interested in hearing you talk about What it means to interact with materials that you Assume are both alive and also something to be nurtured So this performance is actually How it's very interesting journey for us when we talk about materials and nurturing and how we kind of like combine those performance this one and then That one 1200 degrees Yeah, so these speeds were actually something very special for us because This space where it is a cinematic performance. Um, it was presented as a film And maybe you can click all the photos And uh this one over here the small the small button to make it large This There you are. Oh Okay So I can't yeah, oh anyway, you can you can come back to the There you are So actually these all of the puppets that we are using in this part are made out of ceramics and clay And it was very interesting journey when we found this when actually Um We did lots of like again like I love the idea that ikar also and jacky told about conversation with materials because for us materials itself It has its own language It's already has its own meaning. It's already has its own dramaturgy So when we use paper, um what we found very interesting a couple of times we use paper for talking about Um sensitive issues Because it's it's really easy to break It's so it's those kind of what is and it's um one of our show called translucent And we use washi paper and we talk about The general um the the old craft that passing uh through generation and we found that it's it's very fragile And we found that this washi paper. It's a good metaphor for that So for 100 1200 degrees we actually did We we just in the beginning we just explore clay and and and we Brought it to the kiln that nearby a ceramic kiln owned by our friends And then at that time all of our members just make body parts. We're just like let's try Let's make body parts. It's something that we never did before because usually I started with script and stories and then Okay, let's make a puppets like this, you know, like these are the characters, but 1200 degrees are very different So we made body parts and then Anton tried to connect them and we found that of course it's hard to connect Cermics with ceramics. So he actually put leather like so used like Unused leather. So it's again, it's talking about we have this idea of you know, using materials that really near to us And then when we decided to kind of try to assemblage that we found the idea that at that time I met a community of transgender community in Indonesia And then we did a couple of workshops with them and introduced the idea of Puppetry as one of the medium for them to tell their stories For your information in Indonesia, which is largely Muslim People live there. I mean this we have a big large Muslim people majority live in Indonesia. So Become a transgender community in big cities. It's totally fine But if you go to it's you know, it's lots of layers talking about transgender in Indonesia So we decided like, oh my gosh talking about these issues using a fragile Kind of like materials and when we talk we discuss about their story. They're tell us about their stories. I found that They've been through these 1200 degrees You know burned in the kiln to make them stronger So the idea of using the ceramics to tell a story of A head that tried to find body parts And it doesn't want to use what the potters say it want to find their own It's actually it's talking about freedom in a way that when you see it. Um, so maybe we can see Down polet I think we can see a little trailer when you this one you can just play it and meanwhile i'm talking about it so So yeah, so this actually what I found very interesting when we talk about connectivity and conversation With materials and how we nurture and we tell the stories with these materials I think this one is having that kind of yeah quite strong relationship with that So this is a potter and then it has a couple of Characters that all of ceramics, so it's it's almost impossible to travel with them because They're like, oh cannot cannot la la luggage la la like no So yeah, so these um these hat is trying to find their bodies basically So So yeah, so that's lovely. Thank you so much. Thank you. Um, this segway is really nice. I wanted to ask you all This idea of the material Being an author or as you say in the Spanish language version of your website Holding half the copyright to your work. I love that idea um I'm curious to know What what do you find the balance between What you need? I mean everybody's been talking about sort of you need to be able to pack the material It needs to be durable. You need to you need to um pass through customs and things like that, but um That the idea of it being inter responsive and it being a collaborator Um, how do you balance what you need the material to do with what you learn from it? Well, I I think in something When you choose a material you have to accept also the the consequences No, you know of organic organic materials are vulnerable or more Burner but another material But is it takes part of this dialogue dialogue? You know to learn how to to keep them safe or You know But I think this relationship Shipped to to take care or and learn from the material is very interesting and and accept also That's the vulnerability of life also because Human are always Fighting for Became stronger and stronger now and in a part of this discourse of our our company is like accept that we will die Everything but it will it will follow in another form also yes, it's like Popetry has to be with control But it's interesting that We have we have to control something because it will fall both you have From the beginning we we are learning From years ago to learn To be free also these things so the the the the poppet has always Some part that is necessary to be very connect with us But there's some there are all other things that go by themselves. So there there's We we work we work like a middle like Mechanical things and organic things and aleatory things because life is like little bit like that your heart is And you decide if you move that and then your hair is like that so When you have a hair So but we have to manage the practical thing like you your suitcase Uh, yes. Ah, you you can you can show us our There's a video if you go down This one this one maybe it could be could be interesting to like freedom machines and so much objects could be a that's it freedom freedom machines and wild objects Like machines also we we think about machines like Free machines like it's not slaves but collaborators You the manual things that are It's another thing They let you hear the material when you work with them And usually and then you you find that there are many things very very practical The old ones are much more practical the new ones the new ones are like If you have to to build I don't know we once we build the 80 80 poppets Uh for a for a parade and so we need a lesser cut, no, okay But if we don't need to make a hundred of poppets, we don't need that We this is much more fun to cut it, you know um And but for for for keep them to travel with the first the first step for the walls Was to buy in hoping people the the the the yes the box So everything will be inside there only 23 kilos That's the limit and everything has to be there one wall one box So the the bigger pieces. Yeah, we have to all the from the beginning to To to know that we have to ensemble and ensemble and that this idea of ensemble and ensemble we we We share it with the public also because we ensemble in front of the 23 kilos so that you don't have to pay Excess baggage exact because if you bag extra extra extra for eight boxes, that's Crazy It's back to what you just started your conversation. Yeah You know when you are watching a movie sometimes that there is a There's a plastic swirling with the wind and it's that control But it's just you're mesmerizing or the wind goes through the I don't know trees or things happening in natural way Or you're looking at the Fire you never get tired because every time the fire is this create something new So for me because I'm looking by dealing with the 2d space these are reflections So I thought it would be nice to create material like those fairs and Lace and feathers so every time you actually perform it looks different So like when the bird comes in every night he comes different form because these are Stands differently by nature. There's no force from me or my Crew that okay. This has to be stand like this Some of them. Yes It has to be in the certain places and certain distance between the light and those kind of things Those are very precise, but itself what the the material Especially the costumes It's each time is different every night. They come with this custom that the way the play it stands different places and different Positions and they look different. So it's actually makes it more Attractive more also it's a more fresh more is like a wind in the movie that you're not controlling it Like I don't know you guys seen Andrew Tarkovsky movie that the wind goes through this field by itself It's so mesmerizing the director. He just Put the camera in the right place and then this wind does the rest Of the work but here is also trying to get to that part that Things happening and stage is not fully controlled by you I love that you you uh Anticipate you gave the answer to the question. I was going to ask you in part I was I was um So that the idea of you know, they're they're having to be Durability and you have to in your show you you have to have everything in the right place I would imagine backstage everything has to be precise everything has to Uh to work everything has to function for the brief period of time that it's on the stage But everything also has this organic quality. I was watching with such pleasure the fur On the uh the the colors and and the lace and the the movement of all the feathers that that come in at that at that one point um And I was thinking one of the one of the things I really enjoyed about your piece was this juxtaposition and use other kinds of juxtaposition to like um Uh, you have a three-dimensional body and then you have a flat puppet that deliberately flips So that everybody gets to see it's flatness. Yeah, right. There's a puppet show. I don't lose it Maybe this is maybe this is a this is a question that I'll I'll pose to you but this is something for everybody to think about the idea of Using juxtaposition as a language as a source of audience pleasure um, and the the way in which Exposing, you know as you do at the beginning and end and as you do with the with the design of the little feet and and as you do with seeing inside the the cane um Exposing how it's made Not trying to hide how it's made as as as something that we actually really enjoy that insights imagination Yeah, especially in live when you're performing live, you know, the filming is maybe you can hide things around But in live, I think people like to come and see something Basically deal with the materials too, especially for your case because there are people. They're seeing you guys. They're like It's a different and you're also Interacting in a 3d space in the life You might have to be careful because you're dealing with the 2d material. It's just a reflection Yes, it's a and the screen itself is also it's another material the screen that you watch that because any others this is a very expensive material that Screen that has only one step drop of the light from the behind to the front and that's a very Specific material to build that right. You can't see the light sources. Yeah, you don't see the light sources But you have only one step Drop from the light from the behind the screen to the in backstage is a bit brighter The front is like one or one and a half step deemed but But that is also very important. Otherwise you will see a very muted image Yeah, the luminosity of the also all of we have a lot of flashlight for different parts So we have a two main source of light and a lot of flashlight Those are also the luminosity those things are very important that how it should be For which part of the show we should use 5000 luminous which part of the show you should 100,000 Yeah, and I was watching it was interesting to hear you talk about Larry Reid because I was thinking oh this kind of looks like the light that he uses in his wayang least drink um That that uh, you know, but but the idea of having a pinpoint light that casts a great deal of Of luminosity. Yeah, Larry. We use the halogen light, which is the with the switch they the switch from one another I I use projectors with the animation and And it makes it more cinematic because we also uh, we haven't talked about this we Create 208 animated backgrounds That we this animated backgrounds. Okay. We know this part is a traveling shot This part is zooming this part is flying this part is tracking all of these things and also So and then the the puppeteer puppeteer has to react With that moment like if you are zooming in you calculate based on the Script because this part that the the camera should zoom into the character because you're emphasizing that part of the story So and then now when you choreograph which took us like 12 weeks of choreographing The whole show which is long Time for a For a puppet show to choreograph. So that's because of all these Details that has to be correspond to the animation so Yeah, and also this We're talking about this all the side lights that comes to play to create more You know at the end of the day, you want to tell the story and also entertain And also make sure that the people they don't Constantly understand what's going on because honestly for me I watch a lot of puppet show. I mean shadow theater show Sometimes for me it's like after 10 minutes Because you detect your mind detect on what's going on behind the screen and sometimes you lose The attention is all silhouette 2d and then you know what's happening And so I try to every like 5 minutes introduce something totally Uh different so the audience of balance is oh, how they did this how they see more engage also So how what's the what's the what's the technique they use to do that? so make sure the audience sit down for 80 minutes otherwise 80 minutes is Yeah, and that gets that gets to sort of a reiteration of my last question that the idea of the audience Being drawn in by the idea of how did you do this? You know, it's it's it's it's different from film You know mainstream film where if the special effect Doesn't work right then the audience is like that look fake, right? Or and it's it's different from live actor theater that's set in living rooms where people talk to each other Where often the goal is to To reproduce life on the stage one of the things that I found really pleasurable In all of your work is this this Inviting of the of the audience to be curious not at all trying to hide the materials Not trying to hide the materials instead Celebrating the materiality of the object Celebrating how the joint is made celebrating the juxtaposition of different kinds of handicraft And so i'm just interested in any of you Just reflecting before we turn it over to the audience on You know what you saw in each other's work or how that's important in your own work this trusting of the audience through The revelation of material and the revelation of the mechanism Yeah, you made an interesting point which you sort of articulated in my mind That keep the audience curious to the end You know you're watching your show you're of course you engage your story first And then also make them curious. Okay, how How it's been done. Yeah, you know why You know that that's also it's kind of comes from your mischievousness your inner child to kind of like a To be the tingle or tickle the audience is oh what's happening here. So Keep them keep going. So it's not only stories also Uh The the technique that you use to keep them engaged. Yeah Do you need us? Do you need us closer to the microphones back there? Yeah, okay, we're good. All right I I I love to to think that in puppets you It's better to see the zipper of the monster And and you know, you you see the zipper of the monster, but the monster is still alive That is something that me that break up of the and then What happened you you're looking at a bunch of branches that moves, but they are like Looking at me. That's what's happening. That's the audience The audience accept the convention They see and they oh It's an engaged. I think it's an engage with the artist like more Close like because I am not trying to To to hide anything and and I think it also works for the manipulation Manipulation That and I I love this Triangle in in this in this show The the dancing beast this triangle that produces the relation between the puppets here The puppet and the audience that it is like a Recycle because Yes, I mean the the audience react because of the puppet, but also also the the the puppeteer receives directly this And when the puppet with the puppeteer, it's it's hide it. It is another relation It's like like this and the public the the people talk to the to the walls and make like that You are talking with with the public also Yeah, and that it's all the time it's future and I we think that it is it's in different level the engagement It's in in a rational, but mostly in a like an instinct way animal way There's an animal way that always Begins to work. It's very interesting emotional rational and animal. It's like that's very interesting Yeah, I'm thinking yesterday when I was I was engaging with one of the wolves and the puppeteer said told me to howl Then to do a mexican howl So so, uh, you know like then I looked back at the puppet and then I was howling and all the children and everything So I I could totally see that triangulation Yeah Because the stage is their real life and I think this energy of trusting For me, I couldn't find it in another Forms of art honestly Like when I saw my friend as an actor on stage. Oh, I know he is a you know, he has a brother in Outside the stage. This is their personal life But with puppets people receive it as it is and I think it's this even you know, like three adults Manipulating this bottle We suddenly we definitely receive it as it is. This is This is a character. So that's what I found very interesting in puppetry that actually it's not just I mean this triangle We believe that I mean all the puppeteers have these kind of ideas, but the transfer of energy That happens on stage to the audiences through this A very ancient form of puppetry. I mean of storytelling, you know, like it's very ancient And it happened in many different cultures with many different ways But it's kind of like it's very universal because in every ancient cultures. We do have that I mean, let's talk about Visual like contemporary visual arts. Oh, yeah, it's coming from the west Or theater. Basically people are thinking. Okay again from the west or But puppetry in every single country. I mean in so many different Cultures, we do have its own ways And there's never one only the best way to do it because people Have that language for Thousand of years. So I this is what I found very interesting that puppetry has this inclusive as well With audiences in many different ways and we never question which one is the best because Each has its own and that's what I found very liberating as well. Instead we focus on Collectively coming together to believe in a life You know and I that's to me the thing that's exhilarating about puppetry is that Everybody everybody comes into the room to believe and it it connects to what you're saying about You know about there being life in Everything I mean it it's sort of a re-remembering of the fact that there is life and everything in that That life takes Energy and nurturing. Yeah There's a text from South african writer that works very very close to handspring that that she I I just forget her Jane taylor maybe yes. Yes. Jane taylor say that that Child grown up with that You have to believe that he will grow up and you talk to him It's it's no sense. You are talking to someone that doesn't know to talk Well, he will he will know to talk because you are talking to him So that's his uh, I believe you have to believe and he has to believe so that's that's That's wonderful. I think that she relates that to puppetry and to sacred object and object that is straight I don't know. That's beautiful. Yeah. Yeah You know, I just want to uh share experience with you. Uh, because we perform behind the closed Screen so the puppeteers and the actors they have no re-interaction with the And this is actually goes back to the material So I decided very particularly to make because no one sees the material or colors or whatever Things from outside just see the reflection But because behind that screen, we are very Closed like ten people like a family together. We are not interacting with anything. We're just Ourself whether we are rehearsing Or we are performing. We are in that box So we try to actually make everything beautiful for ourselves So we are actually Looking at each other. That's why we spend a lot of time and money and effort to actually these are looks Very good It's not like just adding cardboard together to make sure this. Okay. It works the reflection because sometimes people question me Say, why are you spending so much time and money to create this? You say this is because of us because we want to look at it And we want to enjoy it to make sure that we have a nice lace nice color Or the puppets are very well done beautifully beautiful Uh, so just for us because uh, it's that in 80 minutes that they work together They need to be also I have fun too, you know And sometimes we hear audience the reaction which is definitely give them a little boost But sometimes because of the nature of work a lot of people come sit down. Okay. This is the shah No, it's a very heavy text. This is comes from a different culture. We have to react differently. We have to be very You know respectful But you know in the story as you saw we cracked a lot of jokes to break down Okay, you're allowed to make noise Like I remember we performed in domain at the uh Ohio Des Moines Des Moines was this 3,006 theater and they brought students from all vicinity of the place to fill up And then at the beginning the the lady was talking. I said make sure you're not making noise Make sure you are this and that and then I jump in and said actually I said Please make a lot of noise These people are behind the screen. They want to hear you because this gives them a lot because some of the performance that people are very quiet All of a sudden you feel that Are they still there Actually, I have to share with you Don't tell anybody like sometimes I go behind the audience and some of the funny part they start laughing They feel somebody has to break it. It's just like one person laugh. The rest start. Okay We are allowed to make it laugh at this like ancient text So you have to do this kind of Yeah, you know puppetry can can give us permission again to be the the the noisy interactive believing people in the theater Yeah, um, I want to make sure that we have time for for the for the audience I know you have questions and comments and thoughts that you want to share. Um, we have uh, uh, blare has a microphone that he'll carry around Um, uh When when uh, I'll yeah when I see a hand. I'll gesture to you and blare will bring you a microphone Anything like that where it's not immediately about the function of it. Um, thank you It's a great question What do you want to show the beetle? So Yeah, just show Um, of course the real beetle want one sound like that But then this is what we found very interesting because it's not a dog It's very interesting. Actually a bucket of beetles is the first time that we built animal puppets We usually build human shapes human puppets and then Every time we build animal We always intend to make it it moves like a dog and we don't know why Because dog is the closest, you know, or cat, you know, like so it moves like a dog like no Buck's not moves like that, right? So it's it's how to make it have a connection with the audiences and also of course the puppeteers but also the audiences That we believe that it's it's a buck and how to show the curiosity of a buck that doesn't have an expression And we're not making it as a cartoon, right? So we're not making it with with smile or it it definitely just looks like Original like rhinoceros beetle But then so how we we play around with again like the sound of it or How it fly and how it just move to make to show the curiosities of it um So yeah, so that's how we actually play around with that and it's interesting when um It made the sound we thought we intend to make the sound actually basically because it's just come out with the materials of springs and Aluminium whatever wires inside and it came up with the sounds and we found that we want to keep it And the other puppet said we had is the ants the rat. We didn't we're not bringing it Now but it has six legs and it moved like So the sound of it on stage we would love to make it louder because Again, that's another character that we would love to build and bring to the Is to make you know another character so And add layers of it because they're not speaking They're not they're not having that facial expression And I remember in every every time the red ants appear because that's the first three dimensional puppets appear on stage And yoga performed that manipulated and as soon as as it looking at the audience with These marbles eyes and everyone is just like laughing at it. It's very interesting. Say hey, why are you laughing on the asset looking at you? But it's kind of like that kind of yeah, so That's what we found very interesting. So again, like why we use Marbles as the materials of the eyes because of the reflections So yeah, and it speaks to people So yeah, that's how We we also because I in this in this idea of relating puppets with other forms of Moving things is instruments. No instruments. So there are I like to to think like that. So the walls has these these these Seeds that they in Mexico there are people that use for for dances That's right So that we try to to have that we have the accordion but the accordion doesn't work there But but then but they don't do what we make then I I stayed with this idea And then we make a a donkey a little donkey Not him but a little and he has a pump for bicycle And and something that you can Ah It sounds because because the the the not control sound is the No, and the harsh is the is without something Yes, it's very interesting And we use also the reflection of the eyes bulb Old bulbs Every everybody say it will be in light No, no, it's not necessary. It's only work Yeah, reflection and it works very well. Well, yes, and then then he It's allowed to to to work and it's very important the accent no It's the accent because it's too many materials you have to find something that really contrasts with all this Yeah Play also with with With the space Well, we can make any sound behind the screen But I have to share with you if you go back to that the kingorama I want to show you something else. So go on the right tap on the right And then click on that and then go to rostam pop-up book Yes, okay. These are the pop-up book. I work Made with the paper engineer And then if you go down actually go down, let's see. Oh, here we go. Just run this without the sound and you can hear it This book actually few scenes that there is monsters you're opening up and there is a oh, it's not some Let's get the sound out. Just yeah. Yeah. Thank you and then just run it Yeah, so this this pop-up books Some parts like this page like this page So it stopped it now. Anyway, let's keep going. So this page is the idea and in the story that they This monster coming with their thunder So with the paper engineer, we decided when you open it up. Those are actually handmade So these are actually creates some nugget into the Paper so when you open up it creates And you close up So that was very uh the conscious effort Effort to actually when you open it up. We create a like Something just Related to that appearance of that monster Yeah, these are these are uh quite uh production Yeah, we actually sometimes I have another pop-up book Here this one is no longer in there is a one if you like to see another one I'm gonna I'm actually I wanted if you don't mind no one is more more audience questions because really a 15 minutes left But um, can you tell folks what website this is so that they can look at it? Kingorama kingorama that there is also a page in this one. Yeah, and uh, Yeah, I watched some of the pop-up book videos and I was just fascinated by the fact that um You know, there's a dragon And it you know that it seems to move across the page the way it's designed to open It's so fascinating, but I want to see who else has questions You I'll talk to a good deal about craft and who you learned from What do you hope to impart upon others as your craft that you are teaching? What what do we we want to give to the others? Mm-hmm about how you think about materials how you make materials how you make puppets What do you want to Well, we we we try to to give this idea of This that's a good question because you you know, I I I hate to to think about the Workshop puppet workshop like uh, like a recipe to give recipes to everybody No, but at the same time the people say man Share or something, no But so not only I go So we we find the way to it's all the time we we try to to to give this idea of Open to to relate different objects Not only puppets but machines but toys but instruments but robots but All these things sacred objects and then We here for instance we we propose bamboo and fortune Fortunately, there's a green bamboo here. So that's wonderful and everybody go crazy Cutting the bamboos and and the and all the all the All the girls that were with us they they made wonderful Birds each one was different because we only Beto and I we we were going through the Through the teams the giving suggestions and No case and both from Beginning with this this Collective project So we we we gave like like that I don't know We would love to share about what around you like work with what's easy for you to get I remember at the time like on 2006 Jogja got hit by a huge earthquake Like 3000 people pass away like it's crazy. It's huge So lots of people coming from abroad and they brought some ideas of you know doing a facilitation of workshop to make for What do you call it like Disaster relief or something like that. So plenty of organization come and give some workshops, but they came with The idea that people have to use the same materials like what they have and for me it doesn't make sense So what paper moon does was actually every time we go for a workshop We always try to find local crafts materials and what happened around you and we start from there because for us That's also part of the story that I would love to hear from people like from from What do you eat like what what kind of where do you hang out? You know like those kind of what kind of why you use this kind of glass It doesn't we don't have the same similar glass in Indonesia, for example, or another village So this what we would love to Explore when we travel and do workshops and making performances like Well, when you ask this question I was just thinking about myself when I'm learning from others And I think it's now it's what people that can learn from this my work I think it's depend like we are like a mirror it depends what your vision is And then what's your vision is and then you can look at us and feel oh this part this part I can learn this and then put together yourself because at the end of the day you are making your own Art and your own art is a reflection of who you are so I'm right now. Honestly. I'm not there to Teach anybody what to do and what to learn with eyes up to you what you want to learn from The work of art is a very strange Kind of question that what we want to teach the others. I don't want to teach anybody anything I just want to inspire and entertain and Show them the different color from a different culture So in in the process if you want to if you have something in mind for your own project and then you can sort of get inspiration from Any of us or anybody else As the way that we probably got from other people and then they got from other people because it's just like a Stream of water is not like a you know Swim in the water and you have to get wet And then you get from influence from other people and you put at the end But you have to just translate yourself into the screen or a stage or paper or Yeah, I think that inspiration and that permission that that is you know, like maybe maybe it's not learning a specific Technique or skill that you can or you know puppet style or something but but the just the act of Giving permission to play and the act of of inspiring others to Make their own work. I think is really meaningful Next question Okay, this isn't the best question because I just thought of it when you've been talking But it's interesting to me that a lot of you make Book art work because I my background is actually in printmaking and book arts and it's interesting to see that reflected in this Puppet world So I'm curious if any of you have thoughts on how Your interest in puppetry led you to making artist books Or vice versa how making books made you interested in performing with puppets You usually start Oh my god, yeah, it's an interesting question because um Uh You know I For me because I'm working actually I'm dealing with the book in general because I mean like I make this shah na meh Or epic of the Persian kings just briefly is the longest poem written by a single poet The poet named ferdowsi. He 10 10 10 he collected and put together and versified Millenium old epic tradition of Iranian plateau into 55 000 heroic verses which result is kept the persian language alive Otherwise, we will speak arabic to these days, but we speak Persian also is a It's almost single-handedly is a rope that they connect Iranians or Iranian culture to pre muslim Arab conquest in seventh century Because to these days Iranian have problems with this the The the culture that been sort of imposed into them after almost 1300 years as you can see in the news so So we are i'm dealing with the originally i'm dealing with the book because i'm I'm bringing this book for the 21st century audience This is like what eddith hamilton did in with the greek mythology in 40s That made the greek mythology actually popular in the america So i'm trying to do this with the persian mythology So i start with the book and then variation of the different forms To tell stories from the book to make it engaging and also make it more relevant and also Make invite people come to see it because we are as an immigrant and the margin In the margin of the society, which is almost impossible to get in the center So we have to sort of scream very loud So that's why it started making like, okay, we need the book We need the illustrated book with the shadow theater with the audiobook production. We need the movies So i'm not per se considering myself puppeteer or puppet maker or something just like i i'm a cultural activist, but artistically making different forms To promote that culture. So I don't have any titles, you know, you can't call me. I'm a film I make films, but i'm not the filmmaker. I make puppets, but i'm not the puppeteer. I make books. I'm not the pop So um, but you know, it's just different thing But what you just back to your question the book itself It's inspired all this body of work to tell Be a project something that's Create colors into the fabric of american society as my host because i'm migrated to this place So I need to give something back So I thought this book is there's fun fun stories and everybody likes fun stories You know, everything actually remains because of their nice stories that it's remain Which we never actually talked to this panel, but it's mostly we're talking about the materials and forms But hopefully in the future we talk about actually storytelling. Yeah, it's very important Note for next year All right any last remaining questions Oh, maybe I just would love to add a little bit about the question about books because in paper moon For the first time we did a picture of books out of our performance called who know letters to the sky This piece was actually our plan to tour next year 2025 to us But um, so yeah follow our instagram for knowing where we will perform. You don't know yet as well But we actually at that time I remember that I started to write the script and then I have burst of pictures Coming out of my head and then I started to make drawings while I'm typing in the same time So I I I made the script kind of like treatment basically not really script So like scene one what happens into what happened? And then I start to cut them and do a collage on the top of my drawings in each scenes And then it end up with oh, this could be something else This could be a pictorial book So I decided to just send it to our friends Which is the designer and then he start to put it together and we publish it for the first time that script into a pictorial books that what I found very interesting that Of course the performance is very different with the book itself because it grows through the rehearsal But then I found that Audiences keep this story so it's not coming as a merchandise It came up from that kind of artistic journey of the performance itself And then of course it becomes a merchandise but then um And what we found very interesting about it that people translated to a different imagination with the books Because it's paper mode never did a performance out of a written books before I usually wrote our own story and then and then make a performance out of it So this kind of you know journey has a very different one and with a bucket of videos right now we actually invite an illustrator So she watched all the performances watch this video of the documentation and she translated into illustration And we'll make it into pictorial books So again, it's about how this story can be translated into a different forms That's what I found very interesting And it will meet another audience's because performance only happened in that time right But the books people can can bring it everywhere anytime. So I think it's it's yeah, it's another life Um You were talking already a little bit about this But i'm super interested and I think a lot about it and question myself about it of what is it of puppets That um Let the audience relate emotionally different than with actors Um, like what is it that you like defend or protect yourself less as an audience member And then you can as a puppeteer as a as a puppet artist you can do this complex shows with like You know violence topics or feelings um Or even Politics in a different way that you can with actors and yeah, I just will just like to hear your thoughts If you have them about what is it for you that puppetry? Um, let's the audience engage Emotionally differently Yeah, well in in paper mode with this, uh, we have this Choice of doing um silent puppetry So our performances are non-forbidden and I'm not sure I have well, I can't say this but I have this terminology that we have to Always do deeper research about it But I always say that I'm doing it with emotional dramaturgy in a way that since the beginning I wrote the story I always think about what kind of emotion I would love to bring to audiences and this came up because I can say in Indonesia when we watch theater production people always Came up with oh the lighting is good. Oh the actor is amazing. Oh the story is like it's always about the brain And it's never come up with a feeling So that's what I found very interesting when I decided. Oh, why when we watch a film? We can cry like babies why we can be scared Why we can be angry but very hard to to gain it when we watch a theater in Indonesia I can I couldn't say in other places So we decided okay. Let's start with that. Let's start with a piece that can You know like calling the emotional experience And then on 2010 we decided to make this piece called muatirika. Um it in swahili language It means victims and it's about the the tragedy a genocide that happened in Indonesia in 1965 to 1969 about the Communist people that got great out of Indonesia. I mean they've been killed and jailed and So it's still a great history until today So we decided to make a piece of it and then what happened on stage people are it's not Indonesia I mean we definitely built a new world But then when we traveled a lot with this piece to many different countries After the performance people came to us because we always invite audience to come on stage and to interact directly with the Papatiers and the artists Some mothers say they came up and like this is definitely what happened in Germany when when I was born This is definitely what happened in in philippines when the japanese came, you know like and the japanese say a different way So it's kind of like it happens everywhere Once used an emotional Emotion it's it's it's a language for everyone We came from many different cultures, but we we will feel the same if we see a kid Crying for help trying to find their parents We will have the same feeling because we we were born in this same world So I think um, I found that this is with puppetry Especially non-forbidden with what we found it's We are not dictated people Because when they see it as a scene With with nothing that was spoken They suddenly translated into their own world and their own stories They injected their personal stories on stage. This is what I found very interesting So since then we found like this is it This is maybe the language that we would love to use because it's it's unique or so But in a way that we allow people to to give their stories To the performance on stage and for us. This is really precious Because it's not our own story. It's people's stories Paulette, do we have time to let the the other folks respond? No, we are Well, what what I will say is that uh Folks are up here and I'm sure that you'll mingle and ask questions And we're so delighted that you all came out and thank you so incredibly much to our amazing artist