 Hello, everyone. Thank you for joining us both on Facebook Live and through Zoom. If anyone participates via Zoom. I'm Ariel Gold, the national co-director of Code Pink, and I am joined by Salome MC, who is an Iranian hip hop artist. Welcome and thank you for joining us for this conversation. Thank you. Thank you for having me. I'm really excited. So I want to start out by just asking a bit about your history, how you grew up and how you got involved in hip hop. Because I think for so many people, the idea of an Iranian woman performing as a hip hop artist is just inconceivable. So if you can give us a little bit of background. Yeah. So actually when I started rapping, there weren't many people doing it. So me along with a few other of my friends who loved hip hop and most listened to American hip hop started hip hop city in Iran and this is back in early 2000s. But now there are many, many people who have either gender, making hip hop music. So it's a different times now. But going back to how I got involved, you know, I was from really early on, I was really involved with street art. Yeah. So before I got involved with music, I was doing graffiti industries and just really loved hip hop culture and hip hop music. Interestingly, I was exposed to it, not through American hip hop but German hip hop, which like a Turkish diaspora group lived in who lived in Germany they made hip hop music and kind of the mixtape got to me when I was really little and I really loved their, you know, message of being outsiders and really spoke to me in that age when you're a teenager. And we moved around a lot when I was little because my dad is a journalist. So I always everywhere I've been so I always felt a little bit like an outsider, and this was both inside it on an outside. And that spoke to me in that hop. I slowly started writing my own poems and then trying to wrap them but it was all in Farsi and I didn't have any reference to I was just doing it by myself. So then, internet started to take off in Iran. Again, early 2000s and then there was these Yahoo chat groups and there was this social media called or cut I don't think it's around anymore but that's how we kind of met people who loved hip hop and started by making Persian hip hop and kind of just started the scene and you know, start recording and after that I just kept making music. Now I was reading about some of the music that you made during the Green Revolution and to let our listeners know what the Green Revolution was for those that didn't if you could let us know the background a little bit of that and how it impacted you both personally as an artist. So, the Green Movement was. So this is 2009 you know we have presidential elections in Iran every four years. And in 2009 we had an election. And this was the second term of Ahmadinejad who's probably, you know people who follow politics with the back in a day they will recognize his name. He was very outspoken at the time. It was during the he ran for the second term and then his opponents was musavi and a lot of people kind of, you know, younger people educated people were leaning towards voting for musavi and the expectation was that he was going to get to vote. He had really massive following but he wasn't Ahmadinejad got elected a second term and think a lot of us felt that there was a fraud involved and later it was kind of confirmed but you never know. But, you know, there was a lot of emotions involved after that and people will went into the street and start asking what happened where did our vote go, and how come how how is that possible. And our questions and peaceful. You know protests was met with crackdowns and it was a really hard time for for us who wanted to you know younger people who wanted to get involved in the in the political scene of Iran and get some changes from within. Instead of you know wanting for an intervention or you know wanted peaceful change slow change reforms and that fraud basically crushed a lot of our hopes for that. It was really hard time and basically after that a lot of artists activists journalists left Iran. It was, it was dark times, but yeah I made different music in that time. I was responding to have the you know the feelings were high and I was responding to to as younger too so I had a lot of. I had more time and energy to respond really quickly and looking back sometimes I think okay maybe you know that I don't agree with everything I said but yeah I made a lot of music in that time. I want to let anybody who's watching know that we have put a link in the comments to your website so that folks can check out your music firsthand. And that I want to bring this into current times we hear the Trump administration Pompeo Brian hook and others, you know talking about how much Iranians need to be rescued from the constraints of their own government and you speak your very opinion you know critically from then through now to things that have gone on in your government and we've you've recently had some crackdowns. Could you talk about this idea of rescuing Iranians and what the response is from Iranian society. I would like to say you know I can't speak for all of Iranian society it's huge Iran is big diverse just in America or any other country and with the country as ancient as Iran you'll have a lot of different ethnic groups living. As a you know as a someone coming from the middle class educated background. I probably speak to a lot of people in a similar position that we know history and we know that interventionism is what brought us to the place we are right now in Iran so more intervention is not the solution to anything. And definitely no one wants to be rescued we are quite capable of rescuing ourselves if our social political evolution is not constantly attacked and intervened by farm powers. And I think these sanctions that are put is so called maximum pressure campaign that is going on right now is a interventionism. And again, kind of suffocating the how the natural course that are the people's movements can take in Iran and change the society we do have the power is just our tools are constantly taken away from us so that that is the problem here and definitely we don't need to get rescued because we are, you know, we've been through a lot as a nation, and we had a revolution in our history and we had one of the first democratic elections in the region, you know, back in 50 so it's not definitely not something we need that to get rescued but yet that that kind of, you know, talk is just just some of those Republican or neocon talking points to to justify this constant intervention in the region for definitely not any any humanitarian reason but completely political interests. There's somebody who's unfamiliar about that first democratic election in the region in the 1950s that was Mohammed Mossadegh, and he was ousted by a US and UK coup major act of US intervention and regime change that really upended Iranian society. So many of us Americans I think this is on the mind of so many who may or may not be watching but so many Americans think of Iranian women as women who are incredibly oppressed and always forced to be covered and in fact, Ed scarf is law in Iran but if you could speak a bit about women, the women's movement in Iran feminism in Iran Iranian culture around women and what that was like for you growing up. Yeah. Again, one thing that needs to be pointed out and you know talks like this when we need say something like you know women in Iran or you know women in Syria or anywhere. It's it's such it's comes already approaching from such a broad angle that is impossible to not fall into a trap of generalizations and you know stereotypes. Iran again is such big country that with so many you know tapestry of ethnic groups that women and different parts of Iran will have very different experiences. So again I can speak for my own individual experience. On top of that, if we put aside the you know cultural differences and different parts of Iran. Again, there is a class system also that will affect everyone's experience and that's just a global thing everywhere. It's actually kind of interesting is, you know during these recent like last couple months because of the escalations that happened between Iran and the US I've seen this internet meme going around that says, you know you have more in common with the people of Iran than the billionaires in America. And I kind of want to add on that, because it's definitely true that a middle class experience in America is very quite similar to a middle class experience in Iran, and the billionaires and billionaires in Iran live a lot better than any middle class in America. So it's really, there's definitely a class system issue it's you know it's that's going to affect your experience as a woman too. But if you're, you know if you're a woman living in Tehran or in any bigger city, we have quite a few of them. You're educated and you're working, and you're coming from a family that supports you and people around you. Your, your, your experience is not going to be something very different from how you know anyone any middle class person living and working and raising a family in any middle class world. I lived, you know in Japan I lived in Turkey now I'm living in Seattle, and I would say that from not just thinking of from a broad perspective my life hasn't been that different in terms of the resources that I have things that I have access to the support system that I have. But then obviously you have some, you know, difference in the details for sure. Then it comes to, I definitely feel more safe to speak my mind and, you know, write my opinions online because there is definitely censorship in Iran. And that and but again, you think how many people that really affects as people like us in the musicians, activists, journalists, but a normal person was just living their life and trying to live as a family they don't feel that as much. So it's it's again that that so the experience of living in Iran can be quite different for different people based on what they do. But I would say that it's not, it's not, you know, the average person is not really living that differently from someone else living in America. Could you talk a little bit about how the sanctions have affected middle class Iranians and any effects they've had, as we have watched these crackdowns recently from the Iranian government. I mean, it's so quite interesting things happened last few months sanctions definitely affected Iran in a really negative way and it affected normal people. I think a lot of people on top can actually get quite rich and from the sanctions, because you know they control the borders, obviously, and they can smuggle they can, you know, hoard things and it can work for a lot of people who don't have for people who have that authority and power. But then regular people don't they lose basically the middle class is just disappearing because of the sanctions and people are losing access to basic needs I'm talking to a friend of mine as a doctor in the hospital and she was saying that we don't have access to some basic important like anesthesia related drugs and certain things that was used to be really relatively available are not anymore. And honestly a part of that is sanctions but a part of that is also just again the Iranian government's mismanagement. And I think there is a very direct relation to the fact that the sanctions is not only on the on the, you know, goods that coming into Iran the sanctions means cutting off Iran from the global stage cutting off the Iranian, the people on top the the the rulers of Iran from the global stage. That means that they can do whatever they want. I think when you when you when you when if Iran gets stops being treated like a pariah and those leaders stop start actually interacting with the other world leaders, they will have to have to change and take it more, you know, standard tone of how they treating people. And that's, I think that's one of the more severe results of the sanctions that it has caused the very fundamentalist parts of this ruling system in Iran now really become both in bold and empowered and doing, you know, they have been resting even more now than before than when the nuclear place deal wasn't placed when the sanctions wasn't this high when Iran was more open to the world. Now it's it's it's gotten a lot harder in so many other ways. It's not only the access to the goods but definitely that too. If you could talk a little bit about the social movements in Iran. I was there in October and one of the experiences I had. That was a very short trip to just tourist locations but there was one moment when we were at a bridge in Isfahan and we witnessed a young woman dancing and singing which is prohibited for women to do by themselves in Iran with her male partner filming her and it was it was exciting for me to see social movement and protest taking place, you know, in the wide open in front of tourism. If you could talk a little bit about that for your upbringing as well as what you know about it currently in the midst of all of this pressure from the US. You know, so yeah it's like in a country like Iran, these, you know, simple things that can get taken for granted. And other parts of the world can really be turned into beautiful, you know, acts of defiance and, you know, moments. So that that kind of you know so I was doing graffiti for example when I was really early on and I didn't realize and like looking back I'm thinking wow that was a big like rebellious I didn't maybe realize and I was like that but in the context of Iran and how the society is built it's not only the ruling system but you know just just there's a part of society is also the conservative. But these younger people who are more globalized and they use internet and they have access to a lot of information and they interact with everyone from around the world. Definitely, they're the way they express themselves are more more in line with how you know how the world, how the world, the youth in the world are doing it. And it's not that different at all. So yeah, we have straight dancing we have straight singing music. It's getting a little bit harder now again I think since the maximum pressure campaign, there's more crackdown but after nuclear deal during Obama time we had this opening lots of concerts for happening. There was like great cultural shifts. And people were really hopeful that there's going to be you know these slow changes are going to lead to, you know, bigger changes and cultural shift in the society, political shift to. But unfortunately there's a setback right now, because of the sanctions and just you know, going back to treating Iran like a complete prior. Could you tell us a bit about some of your musical influences, especially any from the US. Yeah, definitely. So yeah, as I said I started listening to pop from, you know, more European hip hop but later, as I discovered more and more I came to love some hip hop from America, you know, public enemy and immortal technique. Those are my favorites. I listened to, I'll say most of Lauren Hill is a big influence. But it's not only hip hop though so I listened to all kinds of different music. Those are the ones that I can name but I love progressive rock bands from, you know, again, I guess it wouldn't be American but you know I love Pink Floyd. And you know a lot of, and this is one of those things that a lot of Iranians, young, and even older generations, they will tell you, you know, they love Pink Floyd or in all these bands or movies that have such, you know, significant influence in the western society and the western society is kind of similar in Iran too. It's a worldwide phenomenon so it's not, it's not that different. Well these are the, the voices of musical social change movements. Roger Waters is right now in the news for his support of the Palestinian people and taking the backlash for that. Absolutely. Could you talk a bit as well I mean I've read some of the things you've said about coming of age as a woman and how that influenced you musically, and also, you know, I'm familiar with how important poetry is to the Iranian people and how far see is a language that facilitates that. But if you could talk a little bit about that that influence on your music as well. Yeah, yeah, you're right. Poetry is a big, big tradition in Iran, going back centuries. And everyone in Iran I think probably all almost all households will have the collection of hafez inside these are, you know, great Iranian poets. So we kind of grow up with that, it just having rhymes and verses in our lives and you know kind of looking at life through metaphors and similarities. So, from that perspective it wasn't really hard for me to start writing music and just, you know, finding that connection to hip hop. But definitely the biggest part for me that that I chose that genre was the, you know, it being an agent of change and when it first started in America. And different parts of the world people who adopted are usually people who, you know, felt like the outcast of the society so that that was why, why I was drawn into it. Being a woman, being a woman, everybody's hard. So that's not different in Iran. Again, I had this, I think, lock and opportunity of having a supportive family, you know, my mom is a writer, my dad is a journalist so I grew up in a storyteller family. When I first started they were afraid for me so they wanted to see, okay, what are you doing? Who are you doing it with? So I had to introduce them to the people I go to studio with and my friends and kind of give them a piece of mind. But I had their support when I started doing it. And people around me, I was like, I had this course, I didn't never really felt that, you know, I'm doing it as a woman in a society, the patriarchal society is not only, you know, the culturally still looking at women differently than men but also some of that is ingrained in the constitution of the country and so kind of had that privilege. And that, I think that helped me just push forward and just keep doing what I was doing without feeling that I was breaking any grounds but apparently I did and this is great because looking back, you know, there are all these new, there's like there's like third, fourth generations of musicians now and they all come to us and say, okay, you know, like because I listened to that I thought, okay, I can do that this, even though I had this and that obstacle. And I'm happy that, you know, that kind of breaking that ground helped help for now we have many I mean still not as many as it should be but there's a lot of girls who are making music in Iran now, in a hip hop genre, but you know, again, all over the world is I think women are minority in the scene so. Absolutely all over the world we are trying to get more women into prominent positions from the arts to politics and thank you for being one of the trailblazers of that. If you could let Americans know your wishes for how to help the situation within this campaign of maximum pressure which we really consider a form of warfare this is economic warfare. And how can we help. I've been thinking about it for last, for the last two months, really seriously I mean, first of all, I've been always against sanctions, I mean you're running been under sanctions I lived most of my life under sanctions and cut off from the world. I know this is not the way that's not the way to bring to bring peace, for sure, but change, natural political change that we need in Iran. And one thing that is troubling as an Iranian living in America, especially at this times talking has become has to be done really artfully, because if I say, if you analyze American governments actions, it can be easily people who are living in Iran you know the ruling class, the regime that can easily be interpreted as supporting that regime, but it's not. On the other hand, if I come and say something that criticize criticizing the reigning government for the crackdowns and the brutality on this side the Trump administration can easily and the Trump supporters can usually use that, you know, as a talking and it's really hard to walk this line in between and saying that's not right and this is not right either there is a path here, path of integrity, and the path of peace, regardless of who's ruling and doing what this, there is a right way stop interventions stop sanctions start pre trading countries like a pariah. And just saying that though, right now, I have to immediately come and say but Iranian government is bad and it is doing. If I don't say that immediately. It's really easy to come and say, oh, are you getting paid party running governments, and it happens so quickly. And, and then on the other side and we have that that because if you start criticizing running government immediately, it becomes like, oh, you know, are you it's, so it's such for people like us and you know for for a for organizations like code being that want just want peace, period. Without all these, you know, the people are trying to use talking points and just just use one sentence and advanced agenda based on that. It's been hard so I'm still trying to find how to express and come to this place of not giving any heat to that and that and just bring people to understand that there is a right path that says, all of those are wrong. It says lift the sanctions and allow the Iranian people to reform their own society and build their own society and stop threatening such war mongering and so on. And I want to let everyone know who's watching that you can go to code pink dot org slash Iran. The latest thing that we're working on is city resolutions to prevent a war with Iran and calling for the sanctions to be lifted. Again, that's code pink dot org slash Iran. Could you tell us what you're working on musically or politically in this current time. And I did put a link in for your website but any other suggestions you have that way about how people can access your music and your words and follow you. Yeah, I, yeah, my website is good I also have a social media only Instagram right now. I'm working my work right now goes very slowly. I usually release albums, but every now and then you know I release singles, I make my music I have a studio and just production everything I just one man army do everything by myself so that's why it goes really slowly but I, my last album I listened to 2017 and aiming to release another one and within the next year. But you know the recent escalations and what happened in Iran. I mean, there's so many things happened like the rest escalations, and then we had the protest and then the crackdown, and then we had the shooting of the Ukraine plane. So so much is happening in Iran and so much is happening with Iran in America and as a person who lives in America who's, you know husband is American son is American. I am experiencing a lot of emotional turmoil and also trying to make sense of the situation. So I'm trying to put those into the words and I am making some music right now to turn this just cope with what's happening really. I'll be happy if you know just people keep an eye on that and support once I release that. And I'm working on a few other more longer term projects that it's all, you know, kind of part of this being of immigrants and my new life in America and just exploring that. One of my thoughts is I know I've been paying attention to students who have been coming in from Iran students and others to study here in the US or for other reasons and have been horrifically detained at the airports and what has that been like for you as a Iranian immigrant. You know, it's, first of all, when the first news about, I'm sure you read that but I live in Seattle so the Vancouver border in Berlin is right here three hours drive and looks like the, they had a memo from the government to just detain people who were born in Iran regardless of their status at the border. And a lot of people were detained and questions for hours and hours, even if, even though they're very American citizens. And just hearing that, you know, it's pretty horrifying because, especially when you think that I left Iran and I come from a position of uncertainty, and you come here kind of migrate migrated and have a life here but then you realize not safe here either. And it's, it's quite interesting to see that what the, you know, it's people in America sit here and they think oh horrible things are happening in Iran but really horrible things are happening right now here too. And we should really be diligent and and ask and make people accountable the people on topic countable for this kind of situation so they won't get out of hands and get because they can grow if we stay silent it can, they can do more and more and eventually it's not you know that's that's how you have regimes like you know like Iran basically. Or regimes like the Trump administration. Yeah, yeah, exactly and you know exactly so what they're doing right now. What I'm saying is if you don't stay on top of it and keep them accountable and ask because that's what happened at the border and blame when you know people came and said this is what happened to us so the government started questioning it and then kept asking and at first they denied that there was such a thing but then one of the guys who worked at the patrol is that you know what no you were told and here's the memo and he basically if he didn't hadn't said that they were going to keep denying that such a thing actually happened. But you know that diligence is required because if you stop doing that then people just get used to this kind of happenings and becomes an everyday occasion all of a sudden you have the authoritarian governments. Absolutely. So I want to thank you so much for joining us and I want to remind folks that the link to Salome's website is in the comments on Facebook and we will put that in other places as well, as well as the link to her Instagram account so that you can follow her. Any final thoughts as we end. Well, well, thank you so much I just think that I wanted to say, again, back to being a woman in Iran, just to give perspective how each society can have different levels. I'm not looking from outside or inside but in Iran. When I was in university I did my undergrad and graduate in there. My head of my university, the dean of my university was a woman, and I started working my boss was a woman I started working the factory she was a woman. I went to Japan. The university that I went I did my master's I there was only one female university professor everyone else were men. And then when I started working. I didn't have and the company that I worked. There were no women in positions of power in Japan. You know, these are obviously just personal like anecdotes from just one experience of an individual, but just to give perspective that society can has multiple, multiple faces and just something to think about. I believe it's that around. You can tell me if these numbers correct but around 60% of university students in Iran are women. Yeah, yeah, that number is so yeah one of the things that comes up often. It's, it's quiet normal for Iran because First of all, we have free education in Iran. And definitely, because I think a part of it is a lot of boys, if they don't get into university the first year they will have to go to mandatory military service. So a lot of the females end up being the majority of the university. But yeah that's that's the correct number and I think in higher like investors and PhD programs to I think females are the have majority. Wonderful. Well thank you for joining us and we look forward to speaking with you again and continuing to work with you and continuing to work to prevent a war and get these sanctions lifted. Yes. Well, a war is happening right now so trying to end this war. Absolutely. Yes. Thank you everyone for joining us.