 It's academic, and it's theater, and I think it's a place where they put that. There's no way you can ignore that. We're not getting more. Welcome home. You can come and see and talk about it. Yes, everybody. So, welcome everybody here to the Martini Siegel Theater Center at the Graduate Center CUNY. My name is Frank Henschkorn. I'm the director of the Siegel Center and also the director of programs. It's a great, great honor again for the third time to collaborate presenting this most significant award. And we are here today to honor Adelheid Rosen, and Adelheid, I think, is somewhere... Oh, here she is. Here she is with us, and congratulations again. She's the 2017 League of Professional Theater Women's Guilder CUNY International Theater Award Winner. It's a great honor. We refer to it as the Nobel Prize for Theater for Women, internationally working. It is the greatest honor, I don't know, of another one that comes as close every three years in such a long search process. And we really would like to congratulate the League for taking this on. It's such a big, big work, and we are really honored to be a partner and to also present the day here, which is only one of many activities. I especially would like to send off, of course, Melody Brooks and Katrin Hilber, who will be coming here. Producer Rebecca Sheehan, and then, of course, the entire Segal team and everybody who made this happen. And also, of course, crossing the line. We have also the cultural ambassador here from the Netherlands. We have the head of Adelheid's production team in the Netherlands who flew in for this award. So it is a significant one. Again, thank you for coming. If you have a cell phone, please do take it out. I'll do the same. Over. Yeah, it's all off. So again, thank you for coming. They hope you see the schedule of the program in the printout. And now I'll give it over to the dream team. Yes. Well, thank you, Frank, for this lovely welcome. And Frank is one of the founders of this award, together with the League. And so we're very pleased to be here yet again, the third time in a round. And welcome, y'all, for a whole day, an immersive day to look at Adelheid and how she works. And I'm really delighted to introduce Linda Chapman, associate artistic director of the New York Theatre Workshop. And Linda nominated Adelheid this time around. And so we're very pleased to have Linda do an interview and then a feedback session. And this is a really real opportunity for an in-depth discussion of exploration of a key tool of how Adelheid creates her unique body of work. And just as a last thing, we would like to make a plea for donations. We're about $700 short of what we need to spend. And this is all done by volunteers and all done by people who put in a lot of hours to get this wonderful award ready. And we're very pleased to have eight of our nominees here, some of our here in the room with us. And so I will now hand it over to Linda and Adelheid. There we go. Yeah. Hi. Good morning, everybody. Well, I had the pleasure of meeting Adelheid back in about 2009, I believe it was. It was the end of the Netherlands Theatre Institute. Anya Crens, who is an international affiliate, was the person who introduced me and my artistic director, Jim Nicola. So I got to see a little bit of the veiled monologues at that time and have always, there's always been a place in my mind about this incredible work. So we are going to try to take apart the life of Adelheid for the first part of this discussion. This is casual. We're going to stop a couple of times along the way so that we can discuss so that you can ask questions so that we can go back and everybody has probably different interests in this work. And I think ultimately what we're looking for is how do we intersect with the work that we're doing here in New York City? I think there are some theater directors here, a number of theater directors here. Does this apply? I think this is going to be kind of where we're going with the conversation. But let's begin. Let's begin at the beginning. I loved a story that you brought up, Katrin, at the man's screening at the beginning. And this was a story, I think, that you told, Katrin, about bringing home homeless people for lunch when you were about six years old. Is that correct? Yeah, it started, I think, when I was about five or... Oh, yeah, they're recording. Sorry. Thank you, Frank. Is it needed? For recording. Oh, for the recording. Oh, my God. Oh, my God, Strictious. It's for history. For history? Oh, my God, for history. We're living now and we're living forward. Okay. Yeah, I had to... I was on a nunnery, you say nunnery school? Oh, you were in, like, a Catholic school? Yeah, with nuns. And it was like a 25-minute walk, which was rather a long walk when I was four and five years old. And then along the road, I picked them up or they picked me up. I don't remember that. And they walked with me and I told my mother, yeah, they're my new friends. And I bring them home because they also want to drink tea and cookie. Fair enough. Fair enough. This is just an impulse out of, like, just as a childhood friendship. Did you remember what you thought about that? Your parents had never said, don't talk to strangers. I know that was a big theme in my very early life about not talking to strangers. Little girls were being picked up. Yeah, that is actually what my mother said, too. I understand that because, of course, she was always afraid with girls. She had only two girls, four men and a rape. Actually, that's a very nice question. It seems like you were fearless, even then. Yeah, I had a kind of, just a flash of a memory just when you asked it, like, as if the planet actually is one thing or it felt like one street or it felt like one landscape or I experienced it as no boundaries. Right, yeah. Did you have any feeling about theatrical work at that time, that early time? About? About making art, about making theatre, about making performance. When did that enter your consciousness? It was in, I made a lot with wood, with stones, with sand because my mother was extremely strict. And she raised me a bit, like, as if she was a dictator of the household. And so everything I could lay my hands on became, I did it also. What else do I have here? Gradeschap and tools and forks and spoons. And I did it actually with all this. I started to build more decor, more drawing. I started with painting and drawing, but also, it sounds maybe strange, like, when I menstruated for the first time, I made a lot of paintings with my blood. You were making body art at a very young age? I didn't know, I had no clue. But it was like, I was on my room and actually I didn't have much because it was not allowed. So I stole newspapers of my father and then I thought with the blood, so I remember I was standing like, you know, I thought, wow, the drops were, it was beautiful. It was really, but I didn't know anything about the art world. Nothing, it was only the church and the breakfast and the rooms and home and homework. When did you start making theater? You're a performer, you're a performer, you're a writer, you're a director, you're a filmmaker. When did the performance, when was the performance becoming attractive or interesting for you? Very late. I was in the fifth class of high school and still I was under the rules of my mother and there was a teacher, he was with a group of teachers. They organized creative stuff, art stuff, gymnastics, trips outside school. You know, there were teachers, mathematics and, well, I don't remember, but they had a kind of creative group to organize things for the students. And they called my mother on a day, can Adelaide help us? Because somebody in the performance of the school became ill and they think Adelaide is a nice choice to take it over. You say that, you take it over? Yeah, and you were the understudy. Yeah, and you didn't even know it. Right. And then my mother, and that is a fight I remember very good because my mother did not want me to be in connection with something like that, so she had a kind of contact, a content, but the help to help the school, to help the teacher, that was the accent. So she was like, you go there, you come back immediately, but you have to help. They are asking for help. So I went there, I got a dress, I thought, okay, a dress. And I really do remember there was no excitement, nothing. I said, okay, I can get out of the, well, more or less the jail, and they gave me a show and I don't know. And the text, and it was like, okay, you read it, okay, I read it in a dressing room, okay, and then I read it in front of the public. And they broke the singing. You were a hit. And I had no clue why. Did you enjoy it? Yeah. Yeah, I enjoyed it. But it was not what I had completely not expected that joy. I was sitting there at once, I was like, okay, and then, and I think there, I was addicted right away. Right, right. And then you went on to do more with your school? No, it was not allowed. My mother did not allow it. So I had to study and I said, okay, I'm going to study French, because that, well, that was her proposal. And I thought that can be my, what is it, Dekmontel, Okovya? Like your escape? Yeah, yeah, yeah, can be my escape. Because my mother didn't finish her study, French, because she married my father. So I thought, okay, yeah, I'm going to do it. And then I sneaked out and went to art school. And then after one year or something like that, they discovered. She didn't know. You were in school for a year and they didn't know. No. And you were living at home still? No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. You had moved? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You're not from Amsterdam originally? No, no, no, I'm from the south. So what happened after that? Were they paying for your school? Well, they didn't know, of course. So I had, so the art school said, okay, you can clean at, very sweet, because my parents, when they discovered, they didn't pay anymore, of course. But then I had nothing. And then the art school said you can clean teachers' houses. So I did four or five work study. We call it here. So you earned your own way, basically. You earned your own way. Yeah, and then after, I think two and a half year, my father was like, oh, that doesn't feel good anymore. That's strange. That's, I'm going to pay for my child. So then they, my parents fight and fight and fight a bit about this. And then my father started paying me money again. That's really wonderful. And were you working in the visual arts at that time? Were you working in painting? Or I was at theater school. Yeah, first I started painting and design, and then I went to performing, what we call theater maker. And then I did one and a half year dance, because I just loved it. See, wonderful theater and art schools in the Netherlands. And your school was teaching both. You had the opportunity to study both, the visual arts and performing arts. Or were they different schools? First, well, they became one school. First, they were different. But I was in a period. I don't know if it exists anymore, but I was in a period. Then, wow, the school was, I got video, I got technique, acting classes, all sorts of designing, also like making posters. Yes, yes. Now, is the tuition paid for? Is that public? Yeah, yeah. So you were just having to pay for your own, your housing and your... Yeah, yeah, yeah. The school is... The school was the Hague government. Yeah, yeah. Wonderful, really wonderful. And then out of all of this, was there a particular teacher, were there people who influenced you particularly? Do you recall, just in terms of... I mean, your path is very unique, I think, the work you've done and how you've done it. And I don't know, were there models, or are you finding your own way through your education? I think I was founding my own way, and I also, I think one thing in my education from my mother, which could be something negative, but turned out to be something positive, I think I was so, as a child, I was so on my own, that from that being on my own, I developed it or I transformed it into a power. So when I entered a space or a room, I thought like, nobody's going to accept me. So I turned it around. And actually it was very painful, but as a child, it was wonderful. So I imagined like, okay, I can handle this, and I'm gonna shoot you first before you kill me. You know, that was the... You're on the offensive all the time. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that was exhausting, but I didn't realize, because I had a lot of energy. But I think, and later on, that also gave energy for my curiosity. So I entered in space and I thought like, okay, I do not have to belong anywhere. Fine, that's my freedom. And then I entered. And that is why I think I could analyze structures. Then I think like, wow, everybody is so... How do you say, following? Yeah, everybody is so... How conscious they are of filling in the way they're expected. Meeting expectations. But you're somehow standing outside always. Always standing a little bit outside and evaluating. Right, right. And that made that I turned everything. So I think in a good way and in a nasty way and in a provocative way. But sometimes, for example, I cannot understand that people are in a row and somebody needs help over there. And then everybody is seeing that that person needs help. But we don't want to lose nobody. And then I think like, this is the world. 40 people in silence. Seeing somebody struggling over there with a problem. And we all looking or looking. For me, it's like... But really, you know, that's my most... Maybe it's for a lot of people. For me, I can cry about this. Now, this is interesting because obviously this notion of helping, even as a youngster, this was something that you did accept from your mother. The fact that that is a value that's positive and that you want to emulate. Because that was her, that was the excuse that she could give herself to allow you to perform. But you took that on. That seems to be a value in your work to this very moment. I mean, I'm trying to pull out what these particulars are that make you so unique. And there is that idea of... It is almost a kind of crossing... You're always crossing boundaries, it seems. And it's interesting that coming out of such a strict background that you didn't rebel totally. I mean, that somehow you worked within your mother's very tight system or your mother and your father's. I mean, I don't... My father was the opposite. So maybe it is my mother, I don't know. But in my brain or in my... I always... I defied it between... I defied it between the two of them. But I'm not sure, of course. It's interesting. And as you said, there was a lot of strife. It sounds like... What do you mean? Because that's interesting. Well, maybe that was just about you going to art school. Maybe that's where the strife was. No, I mean, what do you mean? I like that. What do you mean by you try to break out of your mother's system and you're also part of it? Well, it just seems to me she had very tight rules. And at the same time you say you're always... You're standing outside. You're never quite in the situation. You're always sort of half in and half out of it as a social situation. I'm just trying to figure out where that comes from in the family structure and with these very tight rules. And also for a family that wasn't necessarily culturally sophisticated, it sounds like. They had very strong rules, religious rules. So it's interesting to... Where do our incredibly unique artists... How does that come out of a very, almost conventional kind of childhood? How you have made this path, it's not easy. There aren't even that many strong women directors in the Netherlands from the bits, pieces that I know. You're also, especially for our generation, you're groundbreaking in a lot of ways. You're opening up discourse for women in culture in a way that I think is significant. Maybe it's... It's interesting how we... I mean, because you didn't ever rebel, they kept taking you back. I think of that wonderful piece with the Turkish mother and daughter. Somehow you have gotten them together in a space. We've got to see this magnificent piece last week. They are each themselves. They are accepting and loving, but they continue to disagree. Yeah, they continue to disagree. And I'm feeling the threads of that in your upbringing, I guess. Right. But I think it's... I think it connects to, for example, maybe it's completely not true, but that's many times, and also when I was young, in my mind, or in my heart, or in my brain. For example, the role... When the role with silent people or the art world itself, we all have words, and because you have... And we need words. You need a vocabulary to exchange ideas and to understand each other. But for me, that was already almost like a hurt. So when you make the role of people who are standing silent, and it's like a social or helping problem, and also, for me, it is like we are not playing. So when you, for example, when you make the art world into an exclusive field, and people only who know about art can enter the art, then it's exclusive. And I do not... When I wake up, I do really... I do not recognize my soul is not recognizing when I'm opening my eyes, and I think like the whole fucking planet should be one thing, and it is one thing, and on that one thing, we are all doing our own stuff. But that excluding is, for me, that I think like stop turning the planet, and can I go off? Yeah, yeah. But there wasn't one mentor or one teacher who particularly helped you find your way, or are you finding your own way in reaction too? I think because when I was a child, I was rather wild, and I think I was also wild out of panic. The only thing I remember is that the teacher of gymnastics, you call that? And the teacher, yeah, the teacher Dutch, the Dutch language. Writing. The writing. The writing, yeah, the writing. That was the one who called my parents and said, well, she has to do something with poetry and writing, I think. That was one teacher. And gymnastics, he came to my parents and he initiated that himself. And he talked two times. But I couldn't witness that. You weren't there, you weren't part of the conversation. No, I wasn't. Yeah, which is a pity. Now, what would you say was your first work, the first work that you made when you knew this is the path I'm going to take in my life. When you knew performance or film or as an actor. Do you remember coming out of school or even in school what that moment was? Where you made that commitment and you're exploring. You mean after high school? Well, you're in art school already. Oh, right. Oh, when I was in art school, that felt like another level of life. When I entered that schoolyard, I was on another planet. I was so happy. I was so happy. It felt like after 20 years, I came home. And did you go to art school thinking I'm going to be a painter, I'm going to be a filmmaker, I'm going to be a performer? No. You didn't have that kind of intention. It was more about looking for a place to be. Do you remember why? Maybe it sounds very sad, but don't take it as a sad thing. But I think my mother was really, really a military, I think. And I had no future projection. You were just living in the moment. Yeah, right. I had no, it was as if the longing was, it was more in the moment surviving. So art school for you was about a place to be. Yeah. As opposed to an ambition to become something. Yeah, absolutely. So what was the work, what work came out of that when you knew this was going to be what you wanted to devote your life to? Or maybe you didn't have that. Maybe you made a piece and maybe you continued to live in the moment. Well, I continued actually with that, what you could say, analyzing the structures. For example, one of, I just thought that Dennis is wanting to go, one of the first things I started to do was when I went into art school was, I went, we have bikes, always biking, biking. So I started to bike into buildings on my way to school. And I did that as a, I don't know, also that I thought like I had my own rules. So I could not touch the floor with my feet. And I couldn't, I couldn't stop in the building. So I really had to flirt around. Would this be like a big hotel or a, or some big public space? Yeah, the bank. Yeah, public space. All right, here's another theme. Bank, the banks, how you call the mayor office. The city hall. City hall, right. This is before high security. Yeah, but I do it. I still do it. You do it? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Because now there's beautiful, now they have the lights. In the earlier days, I had to open it and then start biking inside, which was actually, which irritated me a bit. Only in summer or spring when the doors are open, but now you have the lights. So now when you, when you bike very slowly, the lights are opening the doors, one, two. And then so, so I can stay on the bike. If you're on the bike and you don't have to put your feet down. No, and that is, that is because otherwise I have to turn around and go outside. Were you ever arrested for this kind of activity? I mean, you would be in New York. I don't know. No, I wouldn't mind actually, but I think I'm, you're too quick. You're very good. All right. Yeah, you're too quick. But this is already, this is some kind of public performance that you're doing. Yeah, well, and that is actually then what the teacher said, you know, on the art school, but that was, I was completely not conscious of, let's say the value of art or the words or the echo of it, you know what I mean? I was, I was completely not aware of that. Were you doing it to defy? Were you doing it? I just wonder, it was to get away with it. No, no, for me, it was every time, why is nobody playing? That was all the time. All the space, all this open space. Yeah, why is nobody, why aren't we on the sand building castles? It was like, but also when you work, why, why do I have to conquer you instead of like, oh, you have a prime behind the computer, you're behind, what is the problem you're in? You have trouble. Oh, nice. Oh, maybe I can solve yours. Oh, let's switch computer. I mean, the whole life, I mean, the whole really the essence of life. I think the essence of life is not, it feels like a parallel road to build success. Instead of unfolding your soul, unfolding who are you? I mean like the grace of developing or how do you say? Yeah, unfolding who you are. Discovering. Yeah, discovering, right. And for me, it's so strange that we build a life next to our self. And then all, and do the whole day like, who do you want to? You know, in one performance, I made close to also something I did also on art school. I made circles and people were very disturbed, let's say parents and all the people were very disturbed. And the students loved it, my colleagues. It was like, I made circles of people when they end. I invited people, so I made circles. And then I asked teachers and students to go into the circles to mix a bit. And then play that fabulous thing we do of hierarchy. Like you belong and you don't. And you belong and you don't. So I invited what we call important people out of the city and I asked them to cooperate and do as if they did. While you were in school. Yeah, in that performance. I made a performance or an installation out of that. And then afterwards we analyzed it. We had a huge circle and then people realized they were in something. Because I made it like an open reception and I named it, there was a party party which was all made up. And then afterwards everybody was like, the very important people from television and journalists and writers and blah, blah, blah. And then they admit like, no, I was in the... So how everybody was relating and pushing somebody else away only with an eyebrow. So that was... That sort of sounds like a... That was an important moment for you, a really important, that activity. Because you're enlisting performers who don't even know they're performing, basically. Yeah, that is exactly what I actually discovered in art school. Which still carries... That's I think one of those basic values that still we find in your work of going out into the community. Anybody can be a performer in your world if it relates to the subject that you're investigating. Yeah, and because maybe that's what you mean. I make a world for Hafa, for example, the mother of Nazmir, who is like a traditional Muslim mother and not an actor at all, but a mother. So I also start with her like, Hafa, when I put you on a chair, can you close your eyes? What is the color of your dress, you think? So I also try to develop her clothing, but also the space. Because I want her to be comfortable, because she is not the actor. So what do you see when you see an Arabic living room a bit? You see a mosque, you see... Of course I give suggestions what I thought to make her feel at home in the decor so that it's her world. And how did you develop that ability to work with non-performers? I mean, this again is another... This is something you have very particularly developed. Yeah. And it sounds like some almost traditional sense memory, some of the things that we learn early on in our traditional theater schools, seems like you've taken some of these things and some of these exercises, but translate them to anyone. Yeah. It's unusual. I mean, it's a very unusual... And some of this is just instinctual, it seems to me, in terms of how you come upon these notions and these ideas for your work. There's something very particular in your... Yeah, but there is something, isn't there? There is something like... Isn't there something like this? What children do? And maybe I didn't... Maybe I just didn't forget, because when you take somebody's head and somebody's following, you want to take a seat? Yeah, why not? Yeah, you take a seat. Right. I think it's... And I don't understand why people are not living like this. So with very old people, with very old people, I made... It's called Something Tender. And it was an installation around a performance or a theater piece. Then the audience was in row at the ticket office. And I was with... So, above 75. And then we just... Yeah, the old bodies going down was so beautiful. So they were completely in their own way. But it was in between the... Where everybody was at the ticket... The theater hall, you know, before they went in. The lobby. Yeah, like the lobby. And then... And they were with the two of them. You have to... Well, I can also turn. You have to turn. Yeah, yeah, like this. And then the whole lobby... The whole lobby was with very old people, laying on the... And it was so beautiful. And it was only, let's say... Of course, I rehearsed this. And it was organized. But then it was organized completely in the chaos of 800 people going to it. But when you see that, before... It's going so slow. And people of 80 and 85. And then I have one musician. He composed a beautiful song. They could sing in Dutch. So you... And they were all wired. So once you heard it from... When you didn't see them, you could hear it in the lobby space. So you didn't have an audience for it? No, I... Everybody was involved. Everybody was a participant. I did it. Let's say the entrance and the exit of Ola Mapalani's main hall theater theater piece. Okay. So she... Because she was in Groningen and she wanted to make this special... I see. And then she said, I want your expertise on the older people who live in the cities. Well, she said, we like each other's work. So that was like... I did a few co-production with her. So that I can take... Then I have the opportunity to work with 20 people in cities who are... So they travel with that performance of Ola. Okay. That sounds really, really wonderful. Well, maybe this is a good time for us to stop for a minute. And are you intrigued? Do you have questions or observations that you would like to make now? We'll just take a few minutes. Yeah, we've got a microphone back here. We can pass around. We're going to... We're headed into the specifics of the adoption method or methodology. But we thought it would be really, really interesting to try to figure out where this unique artist... How did she grow? How did she become who she is? So anyway, in terms of the early... Yeah. And just the first time you speak, will you tell us your name and maybe just tell us what you do? Hi, I'm Jeannie Dorsey and I'm a playwright. Great, thanks, Jeannie. And I'm wondering, as you move along in your artistic life, who are some of the artists that speak to you from any genre? In the here and now. Exactly. Yeah. Who inspires you now? Who do you look to? Whose work do you appreciate? This director you just told us about obviously was a... Hola, hola, mahalano, but also next to that also... Life. Everyday people. You mean just people you meet? People... Yeah, for example, I have also wonderful inspiring conversations every day with the taxi drivers. But I mean really. Really inspiring. Because I feel... In this moment, on the march, a friend of mine told me, I was... I arrived ten days ago and I feel sometimes handicapped in the English language and then I do not... I cannot find my flow or I can't find my flow because that's not what I'm... I'm not leaving that but I feel a bit handicapped because my Dutch is, of course, fluent so then you are at your one piece and every time I feel a bit nervous and I do not know how to express or I do not know how to stay connected and really express what I want to tell in essence and that is something which is... I think the theme what is going on in me when you are truly, when you are honest when you put it on a table with the stranger, that theme is right away somebody's theme to do or his brother's theme or his mother's so I'm also in love with many artists but actually I do not want to look at the world like that. I want to look at the world like when I told the taxi driver yesterday evening for example, like, oh man, my English I feel I want to express something and I cannot find the right words and he said, oh, I'm one and a half here and I'm from Mali and, oh, let's... you start in your language and I start in mine it was, I think, Bunaba or Bunabow was his language and we did and we had so much fun, you know I was in the Netherlands I was in the Netherlands and my own language and I could express it and I could say it in my own, own, own fucking language you know, and he was behind the wheel and he said I did, I did and we were like, oh, and on a march and it was because on a march I left her house he said, oh, this is like what migrants have they are so fucking intelligent they study, da, da, da and they cannot express themselves whoa, how horrible and I think that not that you may not express whatever job you take or find or choose you may not express I think maybe there's something the true, what's really going on as you say, we have to put on this this outside, this exterior sort of mask or play by somebody else or not play by other people's rules by some kind of societal dictate and it seems like that again for you all, even since from four or five years old you were negotiating that that territory so the individual, anybody anybody can be your subject in a way, in terms of yeah, because I think when I left art school for example you say like, did you have examples nobody had, not really as teachers or but I had, for example, I had no clue there was a director of a television channel he came to the performance he asked me afterwards and he said, you have to make the late night show Linda, I was one and a half year working why fucking me, one and a half year after art school I couldn't believe it and then I said to him, okay well, I start I was so naïve in it and I said, and then I I was busy in that moment with transgenders so I said, yeah I'm going to do that in the middle of a beautiful time 12 o'clock at night I'm going to interview transgenders in the process of transition transition, thanks and then, whole Holland was shocked you know, they were all shocked and I was like oh, guys, very good then, the next you know, so and that is actually the same I was having a big interview it was a scientist mathematics a man who trans positioned in a woman and that was the same I thought the beauty that somebody wants to become who he feels she is and that is the same with Alzheimer it is the same for me except the Alzheimer because my mother is now becoming not somebody how she was yesterday but she is becoming somebody now a new somebody every moment so it's everyday life everyday life is the inspiration every person she meets I think Annie Hamburger can't be here she is saving lives of teenagers in a production in Houston but she has a similar philosophy and methodology and the most significant thing is her goal is to open up conversation with people who would not ordinarily talk to each other and I know that that is what you are doing not only within the theater community but beyond this is Joan one of our founders just tell us a little bit about who you are I am Brigitte Helbling I am a I write for the theater in Germany in Switzerland I am one of the nominees and I am delighted to experience Adelaide at the moment I have one question it's really great I have one question kind of something is missing from what you are telling about your mother and the jail you grew up in for me to be able to imagine it I would like to know what your mother wanted for you because often times this kind of restriction is meant because they want a person to go someplace did she want you to be a lawyer or a housewife or a doctor saving please my mother wanted to continue what you call the status the level of the family like the status quo she wanted you to and what was your father's profession my father was in the the bore how do I say the chairman the head of the board the chairman of a firm a business but your mother stayed home or did she have a profession no and then I think that was maybe her pain my father left her completely free I think they were married in 1926 so that period no she was born no she was born in 1926 when were you born when they were probably married in the there I go they were probably married in the 40's the late 40's mid to late 40's or even early 50's then my mother stopped her study and I think I think that she that's my sister and I think we of course you never know but maybe she was not a woman for children maybe she had to go on with her work with her study with her but she choose actually and I think that's the pain of that period she choose for being that representative woman and she was she was a beautiful woman we were like children we were in love with her with her perfume and red lips and high heels and you know going to parties of my father and be representative at the house and that's done drinking the wine and but I was I think a deep deep deep pain in her and I was once making a trip through the east of Europe and in I think Romania I was in a kind of national museum you know and I went there for basic interest in the country so it was like the whole history of and I was on my own so I went from period to period to period and and at the last room and I don't know where I was when my fantasy or where I I just was walking for hours and in the last room it was a kitchen very white and I broke into tears but at once I broke into tears and that was the most and later on so I went outside to not disturb the people and went for a coffee outside and I realized that it was her jail that kitchen that you had on in those days the first electric washing machines and the first electric whatever and the first and but her life but it was she did it herself it was not her father it was not my father she choose it but she was there she had her own dresses and hairdressers and other than her own car but she was stick to that fucking sink and she didn't necessarily want you to be a housewife no, no, no she want me to study not at strange, wild, not at art school anything but anything but are there other questions about yeah thank you for the question when you took the so much of your work I'm Nadira Bosigit, I'm an architect and my son just started in acting school acting school after Princeton economy degree you took different circle of people I was wondering like when you took the conservative mother of Turkish lady were there any audience from her own circle conservative people came and watched and were influenced by the play I mean because we say play is for you know public art is for public not art art what do you think were they influenced by did they come to watch the play these people yeah what I when I can pay it so that's always the fight but almost almost all my plays or shows or performances or I put a huge pressure on my office to invite them so that they come and with this play no longer without you with Havad the traditional mother you saw it I know we went for two weeks to community houses so really to her own communities to play it and we did a Q&A afterwards so yeah Havad was actually a bit that was actually her first realization so of course for her it was like wow it was a complete new world where she stepped in so courageous but the community houses then she was like oh then she was surrounded by failed women and then at once she realized oh oh oh my god oh this is my own community yeah the reaction of the people who watched I mean I saw like crossing on the advertisements the commercials and the bus stops that were crossed or the breasts were colored did you get this reaction from the people of audience or conservative or can you see the body language at least yeah but I'm actually for me it's the same like for example with the failed monologues we got a bomb threat and now I talk about it because it's so long ago but on that moment I didn't talk about it for example for years because I think there I think all around the world people are actually everywhere the same so do you have very conservative people in the mosques or who saw Hava doing this play and who got frustrated by it because she had to defend more of course there are are there people who say let's take off our veil all of us at the other side of the spectrum also so maybe because I work with so different or let's say difficult subjects for me it's getting a bit the same like you go from white to black and every color in between yeah it's always there but actually little little groups not so small groups so small groups yeah yeah yeah do you think that's easier that makes it easier to have these kind of conversations no no I mean like with small groups the the critique the critique oh the critique comes from small groups there's always somebody but that's the that's the area you're working in also yeah but I like the part I like let's say I like the area where where you can develop the dialogue that is interesting but let's say the really no no the conflict is not so interesting the dialogue is what you're what you're after yeah yeah did we have another question yes wonderful hi I'm Carmen I'm a great writer producer director and one of the nominees I'm very glad to be here I'm I'm very glad to see you and I know you because I didn't know you really I don't like I have a question and sorry my English is awful but there's no translation it sounds very good to me well when it's a question yes when when you the people when you did the performance the great performance in Mexico with Daniel Jimenez Cacho and there's a fairy for the pito the people the people doesn't feel use it the vulnerable people the poor people do you if they feel used yes objectified exploited objectified yes yeah I admire you first I respect but I think that is you have to help me to explain this you all have to help me to explain this very well in English and I I do not mean it as a let's say as a compliment for myself but I want to make it very clear in the art and so thank you for your question my answer to your question is no and why and it's yeah it happens often then you would say answer to this question is yes the thing is I am in that fucking row I live there that's the difference the thing is I live in that row I live in the communities I live in the districts I lay on the floor for days with junks with people you know people are living on in my front door you know it's and then and the thing for me is what I try to express all the time the beauty or the the essence or and then you can say yeah do you make art with it yeah I make art with it or I don't know the forms just come I have no clue how or why or where but the essence is for me there is talent in that human being so when I when I and that's also the method so I have my actors are living in the houses of complete strangers and of course the people in the in the neighborhoods are like oh my god do I have to play oh my god they cannot even imagine I have a rule like we explained four times you know during a few months to say like it takes weeks of rehearsal then you go there and they say yes on a certain moment but they of course they cannot imagine same like I couldn't imagine what snow was before I really played in it but the first time I had no fucking clue what snow was so they don't have that clue but then when I start with them to where they are going then it is it is just what we do it is like I relate to you and also to the people in Tepito and also my Spanish is bad but I relate to you and so what I my method is also most of the time you can do better you know it is like you you come out you where is you that is the the whole thing is to get you out of you and then people start growing immediately that is the thing it is not like we are from the art world we are entering I am going to look at you yeah maybe you move a bit like the thing it is you you are living okay I follow your way of living and then I make a scenography out of your natural move and I think like oh wow can I move this and this and this can you do the same the way you walk well it is this play we come back to play again and it is also you are not taking anything away from somebody you are adding too and you are not also you are going wherever this person is going you are not you are not making them do something or to take away from them or exploiting them in some way it seems maybe oh yeah go ahead one more and then let's no Linda this will be quick we want it and it is a perfect we this is an observation this is an observation this is not a question to make this wonderful lady for her inspiration today but above and beyond that point all of us have to retain our child within what I am seeing here when you are saying sense of play and let's build a sand castle and not leave that sand barren go into that lobby with the bicep let's shake things up let's move it around let's think outside the box and always retain that laughter always on the verge after we take ourselves too seriously we are going through some very serious things in this country and the only thing that will really heal us is knowing that we are unique that we are special that we have humor that we can laugh at some of the problems that exist what I hear from you is that always you are having an active child within you the child keeps getting richer and richer that's what I love you for saying all of this today because I believe wholeheartedly and any of us who teach acting know that a lot of our training today goes to students who don't laugh enough and that's one of the major problems I see so thank you for that lovely you have a chance no I just do anything but I think it is if the people didn't feel misused and I wanted you to explain that it's the adoption technique well this is exactly where we're going this is exactly where we're going now so you set it up beautifully about the adoption technique I just want to lay a few of those maybe a little bit of your practice in terms of the adoption methodology where did it come from I mean when did it become when did you name it when did you name it oh man I was fascinated by a woman also like in public traffic and she lived in a shelter house and then I thought and I was talking with her like 30 minutes in the tram and then I was like wow so I thought can I visit there and there I did my first adoption so I went to live a homeless shelter no domestic violence oh a shelter somebody who's yes like a safe house and then I lived there for two weeks and I and then the lady of the house the business manager you call the business manager I don't know it's a public it's a public yeah like a social worker almost we say who is the director the manager yeah the director same like regi sir director manager oh the director manager and anyway yes so that was my first adoption to live there and it was you who did it yourself yeah I did it myself and then I said I I just explained it to my actors I said here's a bottle of whiskey there's no discussion possible so when you want to be in my next piece you have to live in a house for two weeks also overnight no discussion but here's the whiskey you can drink it tonight and become go out of the roof but you have to do it do the actors make the relationships with the people that they go live with or do you set that up for them to make those relationships to begin with we do the you have an area you have a group of researchers and then I myself and Lauren my assistant we bring the actors to the houses we take a present we have a coffee and then we leave and then we visit in those two weeks and they develop the relation and they in the end we'll develop the scene together but for example I must ask for the to be I can all the board I need four sitters from the Vox jury the chairperson of the jury of the national theater season the chair okay thank you and then I said yeah I'm gonna do that and then I can install a neighborhood jury so why isn't there why isn't there like women who never been to the theater because why is it always experts yeah yeah yeah you know and then I install that there are now already five through Holland and the stories so I said to the jury but also a lot of people go to the theater and they say oh I'll hey the neighborhood jury wow what a nice idea you are going why always in the end why okay you go to a theater piece you have your white wine after ten seconds you saw the piece you are not talking about the piece anymore you are talking about your new dress the climate problems the taxi drivers are awful these days and that was the theater piece yeah wow Halina was wonderful you know but the neighborhood jury is in the audience do not speak the language well is in tears because they are they see a man on the stage who who that was an example with the bottle and they were remembering the whole clash with the father who was an alcoholic daddy daddy and they talk for an hour about what they saw yeah and that is the same what I did with Tonylgoop Amsterdam with Johan Simons when I did the crossing I took hundred people who but in every city where we played in every city hundreds new people to cross through the piece of Johan Simons so he played Dante's death and we walked in with hundred people and then we during the piece and then in the at the end we came back on stage we had and then we undressed hundred people undressed themselves so beautiful they just did their bad ritual and I asked them and what I and they were willing to do that yeah and Johan was even Johan was not I mean in a good way he was mad but in a good way did he know you were coming with a hundred people we did the rehearsing but he never saw the ending because he was Johan from Paris to I don't know he's a very famous director wonderful Dutch director nothing I like him but he was like blocking the elevator and said Adelaide how did you rehearse that he was real I said well Johan I didn't well rehearse rehearse no well we were together many times for hours and then we were talking with like so how do you undress before you go to bed yeah wait take up a shirt and sit down type in my laptop or read something take up a shoe beautiful so when you interview people then everybody is doing it on their own way and already this is like a kind of you think like hope that is a scenography in itself no but it's an improvisation and how do you find a hundred people in each town and city that is the work that is really the work we do and they're all from the same community the hundred or they're people from various communities yeah from all kind of districts in Holland but it was a knock for me it was same like structure because the whole idea I was inspired by I want to knock on the door of the main hall of theaters because actually what are they doing for their cities actually what are they doing so it was a knock on the door so I went to Evo because I needed a main hall theater but in in working in action working theater so not in daytime you feel like a guide but in action and that was the knock on the door in the next morning you had the hundred people sleep in the theater overnight after the Danton's death after the invasion and the hundred people took their clothes off and in that ritual the actors of Toneelhoop were taking their applause which was a beautiful all on the stage together in between the people we're going to see some video that will help help you to visualize this that's true that's fascinating so it's basically it's similar to the adoption the staying overnight the meeting of these hundred people that's got to be a big project to get seven hundred people who are willing to go on this journey with you do you do you have friends to recommend do you send out mailings do you send out mailings I mean just technically how does that happen over and over again I mean to do it once seems like to get a hundred people one time seems like quite a challenge but you've done it many times for example it was a few months I slept a few months in theaters on stage that research is also it is a lot of work but it is as simple as everything I told you and it is we just rang doors so we go on the bike and everybody thought it was a journalist in the beginning all thought it was a metaphor yeah I'd like that's the metaphor how do you collect the people I say no it's not a metaphor I go on the bike for 20 minutes we go to the districts you and the other people in your company yeah and then we start bringing the bell and then we say can I come in how are you today and then we have a coffee and then of course you also go to community houses or they bring you they say all tomorrow night we have a barbecue and they're coming 20 people you can ask them and I will introduce you there and that is how you know so it's really grassroots it's almost like a political movement in a way where you go one on one except you're promoting a dialogue a conversation yeah really really fascinating and then I really want to bring them because it feels like a shake on two sides because I also actually the members of the of the neighborhood jury I want them to be adopted by I want them to be adopted 100 no sorry the jury the neighborhood jury so I want them to be adopted by the manager director of the main hall theater and that is also so I make the posters that actually exists of the general of the general manager and one of the members so that is also in the publicity I want that adoption methods to be clear but also that there is no hierarchy so and then that adoption is of course not sleeping because that's for this performance and that's not two weeks in a house but then I tell them also to the managers there are five connecting points this year so you adopt now Catherine because Catherine is a member of the the divided jury you are the general you are evil and ok so you have five connection points this year so she will eat at your house one time you will eat at her house personal this is not institutional one on one and from that one on one I make a poster to make it more universal and Evo has now you have to understand in the Netherlands they have a well it's less than it used to be but it's still a very beautiful system where each of the bigger cities has a state theater with it's a little different we have not for profit theaters and there's a little bit of government subsidy but not much so each theater is responsible for its own well-being but there's a system of basically state-owned and operated theaters in the Netherlands and Evo van Hove is a big high art director my theater has worked with Evo for almost 20 years and I know something about him and it really is he's embraced you does he go and have the one on one with the members of the community he had the the first neighborhood I think eight years ago now and he was the first to adopt them so he was the beginning so he led the way which is very good really really wonderful but I would love to do we're going to wrap in a couple of minutes but I wonder we're going to take a break and when we come back would you perhaps engage us as if we were going to be we're potentially people who might be doing a project with you because we want to do actually we really want to we want to learn about this we want to learn about what this play what this play is but how better than and especially since the way you're describing it is that you're never it's always in the doing in the doing so maybe maybe if we're being recruited as part of a hundred we'll actually get a real we may end up going on stage and taking our clothes off who knows but it's in the doing that's beautiful we can yes absolutely so anyway we've got a few minutes do you want to ask any more questions and then we're going to stop at noon and take a break so other questions comments curious Melanie sir no problem just a logistics thing when you're going into the you the actress whatever are living immersed in the community for a week or two what is are you compensating the families that you're living in are they they're now just responsible for another mouth to feed and are the actors I'm just curious about the logistics of the actors following them wherever they go all day no that is of course of course that is taken taken care of of course so you're contributing back to the household they they sorry well we have a complete different system so I even do not know what privately funded means in I mean your context and mine well we do a lot of fun all of our not-for-profit theaters need to fundraise and we we have so little government subsidy and there are foundations and a few corporations but there's not enough to go around anywhere so everybody's dependent on box office these days and also on individual donors it's like the feudal system gone crazy not one you don't have one benefactor you have hundreds of benefactors and you need to be yeah constantly but we yeah but that's what about what I do to that that's because the urban safari costs money because you have so many people local people and I want all the local people to be you know really related to the play really related to us so that they feel at home so we have simple things so also the rehearsing spaces you know everything is simple and that is also because I want no doors close I want everybody can walk in and everybody can take whatever he likes so I had so that is and that works very very very good so it's always yeah yeah you get your funding that the government funding in the Netherlands you usually write a grant proposal that takes you what is it three years now four years so they have cycles I know where every little grant we're writing over and over again they go to the government but a four year program and they get the funding now in the Netherlands they also are learning how to fundraise because they don't have the subsidies they used to have so it's a combination but not quite as it's not quite as desperate as we are in terms of one more question over here I am Jonathan Tindall I will be too close why am I being close yes please I am Jonathan Tindall I am an actor I wonder if if you have anecdotal feedback from these communities one year five years later as to how if at all the work has changed their communities do you get feedback do you keep in contact yes is it a positive do you have ongoing relationships with some of these people very much because but my actors are extraordinary I think but also I think also because it's because let's say the method is so real is that actually also we make we make everything so for example this at the end of the season the beginning of the season Christmas I do you know that kind of moments we always invite everybody we always pick a community house in a neighborhood so also for our officials and my board I also think that's good you travel a bit you know you go to something else and when you are used to well they're on your board exactly they know what they're signing on for and still I have to educate them a bit and also there are when for example when we initiate every year a new neighborhood jury then we try to how can you say that to convey to bring this jury to another theater group for example yes yes so that you're you're mixing between when they don't want to stop I'll initiate every year a new one but then I'll try to bring them to another theater group because somebody has to organize it organize them and in the new neighborhood jury this year for example are a few adoptions of my last safari which I ended last June so we did that from January till June that project and then the performance are two months in Amsterdam so then we ask these adoptions to be part of the so we open that up so when they say no then they are still in contact but then they have the possibility they can always come back yeah they can come back and I think it's more and what I do well that is something I'm very grateful for example to you Dolph Dolph for example was ambassador beautiful thing which was exactly what I mean with the work so when you can say follow up without that I ever spoke about you about it with you but you did a follow up of the work I make in the real life because there was a huge reception in Mexico and of course there are well you know when the ambassador is giving a reception you know more or less I don't have to explain what kind of people are invited and then Dolph invited everybody who was part of the urban safari in Tepito and Tepito is a neighborhood you know of course because you're from Mexico in the middle of Mexico it's a dangerous neighborhood it's a criminal neighborhood and you know the pictures of Danielle who is from Mexico a very famous actor and director and I made it with him over there and then Dolph invited the adoptives who are all you know poor people the scooter guys who was like a criminal local I had to there were no other motorcycles they were criminals that's Mexico yeah you know the corruption is from here there so unlike the United States anyway so and then Dolph asked them to the reception and it was so touching because they were all in the aftershave you know they were they ironed thank you so much they ironed their shirts and I think Dolph you said with that lovely gentle mood of you you said afterwards because I couldn't be there and you said afterwards to me that the servants from that reception were a bit disturbed because they didn't recognize let's say that even the people of Tepito were in higher lower than the servants so they were they didn't know where they were anymore Linda unfortunately the time stopped yes we must stop we need a little break everybody needs a break but then we will come back and we will those are possible we'll take a little bit we're already cutting ourselves five minutes we'll do ten minutes and then we'll come back we can do a little more video and then we're all going to and then you can bring us into the process okay thank you