 Yeah, I mean, we could, we could open the meeting and get through the staff overview procedures and things if you wanted. I'll call the meeting to order. Yeah, what's the next thing on the agenda? I don't have mine in front of me. Uh, well, that would be staff review of remote meeting procedures, so we can do that. All right, so I'm going to share screen, everybody is on, this is really more for people who are watching me at Orca and decided they want to log into the meeting. Let me get to, uh, hold on, are you guys seeing a remote public meeting word doc or are you seeing a internet screen? Remote public meeting? Remote review of DRC remote. Perfect. Thank you. My little green thing was on a different computer screen. Um, all right. So, um, for those viewing the meeting via Orca media, you can participate in this design review committee meeting via the zoom platform through video or telephone access. The link for zoom access is here. Here in phone number. And then we have meeting ID and password for using either of those options. You can also get the full agenda materials. Through the city website. If you're having problems accessing the meeting, please email me at mcrandall at Montpellier hyphen vt.org. Also, if anybody is having difficulties while accessing the video conference features, you can text me using the chat function. Um, so for everybody involved, this meeting is being recorded as well as streamed live via Orca media. Turning on your video is optional. Public testimony will be taken verbally. Um, especially this hearing. I don't have anything written that was submitted to add to the record. Um, the chat function should only be used if you have troubleshooting or logistics questions and the chat will be added to give me one second, uh, to the public record. Please keep your microphone on mute when you're not speaking to reduce background noise. And for those participating by phone, if somebody calls in, um, then star six will allow you to mute or unmute if you don't have a mute button on your phone. Um, as a host, I can sometimes manually mute and unmute people. Everyone's in all that feature does work and I'll ask you to. Hello. Hey, Steve, we're just going through the remote meeting procedures and then we'll be able to hand it on over to you. Okay. Sorry for the slow loading. It's been 20 minutes trying to get on. Uh huh. Odd. Um, so, uh, if you're interested in speaking on a particular matter, and it's not something that you were originally on here for, um, then just raise your hand physically or by using the raise hand button on your toolbar for those on the phone, you can press star nine to do that. Um, and then just a typical once the chair has recognized you to participate, then please unmute your microphone. Okay. So, um, if you're interested in speaking on a particular matter, then just raise your hand. Um, confirm that you can be heard if you're not an applicant, um, or otherwise listed on the application materials, we'll need you to provide your full name and address for the record. Um, and we're asking people to, um, keep comments. If it's the public commenting to two minutes. Um, the chair might grant additional time after your initial two minutes if needed for follow up questions. Um, and then we'll have to continue the meeting to a time and place certain. If you are having connectivity issues, try turning off your video or closing other applications on your phone or computer. And if you're having trouble seeing the document screen share, all the files are uploaded to the agendas and minutes page for this meeting on the city website. Please note that all votes taken during this meeting that are not unanimous will be done by roll call vote. I'll now hand this back to her to the, said of the vice chair, the chair. Um, Does there want to continue or do you want me to start? I think you can go ahead, Steve. We didn't actually do like the introduction to the agenda. We didn't actually do the introduction to the agenda. Um, I think you can go ahead, Steve. We didn't actually do like the introduction of the DRC members and things. We jumped right into the. Um, Remote meeting procedures. If you want to introduce everybody, we could do that and then jump to the first. Agenda item. The procedures. Sorry for the delay. Welcome to the November 2nd, 2020 meeting of the material design review committee. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. The members introduced themselves by speaking their names. Martha Smirsky. Eric Gilbertson. Liz Pritchett. Anna Smith. Steve Everett. I'm sorry. Ben, you're there. Okay. Do I hear someone make a motion to approve the agenda? Yeah. So, that, I move the agenda. Second that, All in favor, speak your names. Martha. Eric. And Steve. We can move on to the first application. Bailey Avenue or an Amant State Employees Credit Union, the applicant, Montpelier Conservation Commission. And again, this is to review an interpretive sign at the VSECU rain guard. Is someone there to describe the application? Page again to unmute yourself. Thank you. Yes, this is Paige Gertin from the Conservation Commission. Go ahead and describe your application for us. Okay. This is actually part of a project that was started last year, the rain garden at the Credit Union. And the sign was the sign is an interpretive sign that will explain the functionality and the purpose of the rain garden to the passing public. The sign will be right not right next to but between the bike path, the multi-use path and the rain garden where it will be visible. I hope you all have a copy of the sign that was designed by Holly Greenleaf of Greenleaf Design. She's quite a talented artist. And the question, I think, here is that we have several logos on the sign that are companies, while the Credit Unions and Sarah's Equilibrium LLC, Sarah was the designer of the rain garden. And Simeon is here from the Credit Union. He was our Credit Union contact and amazing facilitator. And so some of the logos are commercial establishments. And I think that was the question that or the issue that Meredith raised with us and asked us to come to design review. The information on the sign is intended, as I said, to inform the public about the functionality of the rain garden. And it'll be part of hopefully a series of signs along the bike path at different stormwater, green stormwater infrastructure sites that will help to clarify the connectivity of the rivers and the lake and the significance of the waterways to the city and to the people and to our history, etc. This one focuses on the specific rain garden and how it works. It's very cool. Anybody have any questions? And I can share the application if anybody wants me to. My curiosity is, are there any other commercial establishments than the ones that you named on the sign? It contributes to money or whatever? Who else is on the sign? I think they're all non-profits, the River Conservancy, perhaps the Conservation Commission. The only one would be the Vermont Youth Conservation Corps. And I'm assuming that's a non-profit. I would think so. And there are any other commercial ones, right? Thank you. Page. I'm looking at the sign now and it's all non-profit organizations except for VCC, which is a not-for-profit credit union and equilibrium, which was the design. That's what I thought. What is NEIW? The New England Interstate Water Pollution Control Commission. Okay. Yeah, they shortened their name to just the initials, but that's what it is. And they actually oversee the grant with the Lake Champlain Basin program. The grant actually comes from the Great Lakes Fishery Association. It's all this long chain of reporting that all of which is pretty much non-profits and government organizations. So the only one that's not the non-profit is the equilibrium? Yes. And the credit union. And the credit union. But we have to acknowledge everybody's contribution. I mean, Sarah is equilibrium's owner, Sarah and her husband, and they basically did the lion's share of the work on the garden in terms of design and maintenance and you have to, the Vermont Youth Conservation Corps actually constructed the garden, Lake Champlain Basin program, and NEIPWIC basically funded it. And Sustainable Montpelier, Elizabeth Courtney worked with Sarah on the design and helped with brochures and information that we handed out. So, you need to acknowledge everybody one way or another. It's not intended to be a promotional thing. It's an acknowledgement. All right. I think that's clear with equilibrium paying such a large role. They ought to be acknowledged. Oh, yeah. The rest of the people, it's the credit union land. So, yes, it's on their property. So there shouldn't be, I mean, they have obviously a large sign on the building. So there shouldn't be any issue, I would think, with having their name on the sign as equilibrium. Can I just clarify something? Sure. So, yeah, it's not that there's necessarily an issue under the design review standards about having the credit union and equilibrium on here. It's more that it suddenly triggers us potentially into a commercial purpose, which then triggers it into the sign definition, which means it needs to go through design review. It's a flow through of the way the zoning regulations are drafted that I don't have a clear out from requiring a permit for this particular interpretive sign given the what's on it and where it's located. It's just an unfortunate combination of circumstances so that it needs a permit. And because it's in design review, it has to go through the design review committee. I don't think that there's any issues with it getting through design review. It's just the way the language is written. We can solve the problem by approving it. Exactly. Do any committee members have any other questions, comments, or suggestions? The only comment, I like those low-mounted slant-faced signs. I think they're really nice. And the idea is you can stand, you know, you can look at the sign and you can look over the top of it at the garden and it explains things while you're looking at it, which is nice. Just a point of information. Sustainable Montpelier Coalition is a group of well, equilibrium was in it, but it's nonprofits like the Vermont River Conservancy, the Friends of the Winooski, Sustainable Montpelier. So what we did is collect a bunch of people who are concerned with water issues and green storm water infrastructure. And we all kind of got together and made a logo that will be consistent across all the signs. So it's all, it is a non-entity, basically. It's just a group of people who are trying to work together to get something accomplished. And so we, that's what the Montpelier Waterways logo is. Well, thank you, everybody. Thank you guys for doing that. I think it's really neat. Yes, it is. And a nice sign describing it. I'll stop by the rain garden and take a look, hopefully soon. Soon as the snow melts. I can, unless anybody has anything else I can read through the criteria for all projects, exterior design and materials of a new construction or alteration of an existing building. It says, additions to existing buildings shall respect and be compatible with size scale materials, detailing and character of the primary building and its environs. Additions shall not obscure or undermine the essential forming character of the original building. That's acceptable. We can skip some of the non-applicable criteria. And then lastly, landscaping, screening and site furnishings. Site furnishings, including fencing, seating or other types of furniture visible or acceptable landscaping should not be placed to design in a manner that would obscure or undermine key architectural patterns. That's acceptable. Existing historic fencing shall be preserved if any. That's acceptable. Mechanical equipment, utility structures. There's nothing there that needs to be screened. And then green fencing such as hedges, plantable, native or already landscape species can be employed as effective buffers. The landscape garden is fine. And that's acceptable. And then the sign itself, size, location, design, color, texture, lighting, material of all exterior signs shall be compatible with the buildings and structures. That's acceptable. Sign, design, color, topography and shall respect historic precedence. Acceptable. Sign support structure shall be compatible with the building architecture. That's acceptable. And that's all the criteria that applies. And can I ask the committee members to all in favor speak your names? Eric. Marcia. And Steve. So the project is approved. Thank you. Thank you, Brian. Hi. Thanks, Timmy, and has a question. It's more of a statement, actually. I just wanted to quickly but wholeheartedly publicly acknowledge Paige Curtin for all of the work that she did to both vision this project, gather the resources needed to make it happen, bring the stone environmental, environmental impact study that was happened years ago and just really saw it from its inception to this point. Just really thankful for Paige's dedication to this project and the city for supporting it and all the nonprofits that were involved. It's been a great civic engagement piece and I really hope that the intended outcome of both mitigation of pollution into the river happens, but additionally that it becomes a place where people can become inspired and learn more about this activity and this project to further make Montpelier a place where this is recognized as a good thing to do. So thank you, Paige. And with that, I'll say thank you very much and leave the meeting and go have my dinner. Thank you, Simian. Let me say that the credit union was absolutely incredible to work with. They jumped into this process wholeheartedly and were just fantastic. We worked with a bunch of people in the grounds, the facilities director, Simian, everybody was just so helpful. It was fantastic. And Sarah's been maintaining it all summer. Paige, I got a question for you. Is there a sign plan for the parking lot that's next to the transportation building? Because they put in a garden there as well. They did, and there isn't one planned yet, but that's on my radar. Okay, good. Yes, not yet, but hopefully there will be. So just a quick process, not question, notice to everybody that because there weren't any committee recommendations or tweaks for this review, we will be getting that permit ready and out as soon as possible. However, City Hall staff has been basically booted out of the office, out of the hall until Thursday if we aren't involved with the election tomorrow. So the earliest it would get issued is Thursday. So maybe shoot me an email if you want to be able to pick it up if possible from Audra. Otherwise, we'll just get it in the mail. I'll just have Audra send me an email when it's done and I'll come pick it up. Can the credit union begin site work or whatever they need to do? I don't know what the process of the sign, I think it's in construction. Can they proceed or do we need to wait until we have permit in hand? You need to actually install it? Yeah. I mean, technically you're supposed to wait until you have the permit in hand so you can post it. Okay. But we'll get that. I mean, it'll be out Thursday. Okay. Just have Audra shoot me an email and I'll come get it. Thank you. You're welcome. Okay. Great. Thank you very much. Thank you for your time and good luck with your project. Thank you very much. We're excited about it. Take care. Get some good weather to install the sign. I'll snow up around the bottom. Anyway, thank you, everybody. Thank you. Signing out. Thanks, Simeon. Thank you. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. We can move on to the next application for 99 State Street, the Malone property. Is there someone there to describe the application for us? Hi, Alicia Filer, Malone properties, and also Sarah Hoffmeyer is here. So I, Meredith, do you mind if I just share my screen? Is that okay? So this is, we had come before you folks when we were doing the initial design for the 99 State Street revisions. And I have that if we can compare it. There was a big topic of discussion with the two existing Norway maples in the front and their health and condition and whatnot. And so that's been reviewed. And also the tenant looking to move in had some ideas about the gardens in front of the building. So this is the area between 99 State Street and State Street itself in the sidewalk for State Street. So we had proposed this previously to keep the existing Norway maples and then have some additional plantings, new planting stuff in the front of the building. But in light of the more, more review of the health of those trees, there's some new trees being proposed. And I'm going to let Sarah comment on all of the actual plantings. But some of the site features that we're looking to spruce up or kind of finish off are that there'd be a raised granite curbing along the edges of the gardens. This existing walkway, which is concrete will remain. There's existing granite benches that would remain. There's a much larger brick patio space in on both sides. And we'd be reducing that to kind of just to be at the actual bench areas and not have as much impervious. Those are the site features. And maybe Sarah wouldn't mind just mentioning about the actual plant themselves. Sure. Yeah, with with the federal style building and just looking at it's always good to look at what the neighbors have and make sure you're getting in diversity. So something, especially with the trees, you know, they're looking at the different species that are on the same block and making sure we're using different species so that if a pest comes in, like we all know emerald ash borer is here. And so if you have a, you know, ton of ash on one street block, you're going to lose all those trees. There aren't a lot of honey locusts around. So honey locust is a rugged tree. Again, it's an urban area. So that's one that really survives well. And it casts light shade. I was also thinking about the leaves and how if you do have people walking on this area, the leaves aren't quite as slippery in the fall time as larger leaves like oaks or maples. That's kind of just a little side note though. That's just like a week that it really affects. But then as far as the plantings go, just looking at different bloom times and making sure there was some kind of color. I love, I was so happy whenever I heard Pat wanted to take out the brick pavers and extend the green space. It's much more in line with, oh no, is it the right next to the post office? As I have a blank next to the community bank, but they have two service berries in the front and they have an extended lawn area. And it's much more in line with that. I think it's more welcoming in general. And just way better for stormwater management too. Anytime you can get that infiltration, it's doing a good thing. If you have any questions about the specific plants too, I'm happy to answer them. I went with more classical and then also just looking at the surroundings. So a U hedge is already kind of, it exists there and it's used in a number of different places. That's a great plant that as it can take full sun, but then as the trees cast more shade, it can also take full shade. So it's one kind of planning the next five to ten years and making sure this is kind of a planting that you don't need to change out as the shade changes or as the conditions change. But I'm happy to answer any other questions. How tall was the trees be when they're planted and how tall would they grow? Yeah, that, so we found, I'm also on the Montpelier tree board and we plant a lot of urban trees. And unfortunately, the trees that are planted in the downtown don't grow quite as quickly or as are robust as you'd find with more green space around them. I always recommend planting trees that are at least five to six feet tall at planting. That way they have a good start. Bald and burlap usually. And honey locus, the specific one, if it reaches its potential, it will be 45 feet tall. I don't think it will get to be that tall in all honesty. It would take twice as long as a normal honey locus just given the stresses that are on it. And then its spread actually isn't quite as large. You typically see them 20 to 30 feet with a spread. So it'll be, it will be sizable. It'll just take longer than a normal tree that's planted in a park. Sarah, the hydrangea that you're thinking about, are you thinking about colored ones or white ones? Both. So we were thinking of doing, and it depends also on the pH of the soil. You can a lot of times, yeah, there you go, you can see some of them. The white hydrangea, the arborescence variety, that hydrangea arborescence, those are really rugged. They just grow really, really well in different conditions. There are so many cultivars now out there, but these ones were chosen kind of for size, and the colors will play off the other blooms that are blooming at the same time. But hydrangeas in general are the later season blooms, but then I love the way that they hold on to their blooms even into the winter. So it just gives one more thing that holds snow and holds frost and kind of has that, oh, don't get me started on plants, it's my love. It has that lovely look to it, magical. Yeah. Okay. One other item that I hadn't mentioned is that part of the plan is to have a wrought iron fence. So I wanted to show a picture of what we were thinking that would look like just so you can be aware. So this is a manufacturer that I found and I was able to get a quote from just some of their pictures that they have of their fencing. So it's a very simple iron fence. We're proposing it to be three feet tall, and it's going to be very similar to this type of thing that there's a walkway. There's some either the sidewalk up to our building or the sidewalk along State Street. There's going to be a row of plantings, a fence to kind of rake it and make it a little more formal of a garden space, not have people walking through, but it'll only be three sided. It won't prohibit people from getting to one side or the other or not allow for maintenance of the plants themselves. So it's just going to be a fairly simple design, but a heavier wrought iron fence and not just a kind of small little plastic thing that gets thrown in. That's that was another piece. Could you go to the site plan and point out where the fence is going? Absolutely. So this this line here, it kind of comes down. It makes it like a little miniature U is the fence line and it would be mirrored on both sides. So it's shown about like about a four foot, maybe 16 feet and then 12 feet kind of three sided sections along the curving and edges of the impervious. Thank you. I think it's very attractive. I like the plan. I like the fence. It's going to be great. Looks like it's very well thought out. And I remember you're coming and thinking about those Norway mate pools when this was when the project was first proposed. Yeah, I'm glad Pat reached out to Sarah to give it a extra face left. This is going to be I'm excited to see how it comes out. Does anyone else on the committee have any comments, questions or suggestions? I guess my quick question is regarding that fence and what how those posts are mounted. I assume there's concrete going four feet down to support each post or how are how are those posts held up? I think that there there can be a concrete like a sauna tube concrete piece underneath. And it depends on how tall of a pole you're you're willing to put in as to how big of a concrete base that requires usually the concrete bases 12 inches in diameter. So it's not it's not a huge thing and that would be under kind of a maybe like an inch above the ground but it wouldn't be sticking up. It wouldn't be like a light post base within the fence post. It would be essentially hidden from site. How deep are you going with it? I was going to check in with the manufacturer that we haven't formalized any orders or anything but usually they're four feet deep so that the fence the first frost doesn't start going going crazy and skewed. Any other questions? If not I can review the criteria. This is an all projects set of criteria and number three that applies is proposed landscaping shall be compatible with the neighborhood and the site on which the project is located. It's acceptable. Location and appearance of all utilities including fencing shall be cited to minimize adverse visual impact or adequately and appropriately screened from public view. In this particular case the fencing is enhancing the landscape design and then lastly landscaping, screening and site furnishings. Site furnishings including fencing in anything else visible from the street or side yard shall be considered within the context of the existing building its site and context and that's acceptable. Landscaping should not be placed or designed in a manner that would obscure or undermine key architectural patterns that's acceptable. When practical existing historic fencing shall be preserved there's nothing there that was there existing at this time. Mechanical equipment there's nothing there in this application and green fencing such as hedges planted with native or hard of your landscape species can be employed as buffers and again there's no the fencing here is the iron fencing that's proposed and that's acceptable. Do I hear a all in favor of the application? Speak your names. Eric says yes. Martha says yes. Lynn says yes. Ben says yes. Hannah says yes. And Steve says yes so it's unanimous. The application is approved. Thank you. Thank you for the participants who came to describe the project course. Thank you very much and good luck with your project and hope the weather improves so you can make some some advancement. Thank you very much. Bye bye. Thanks everybody. Get out your permit as pretty much as soon as Audra can get back in the office to do it. Thank you. Is everyone to have a chance to look at the minutes from 9.21 and 10.19. I would move approval. We'll start with the September 21st. That was myself Eric and Liz. So Eric moved approval. Do I hear a second? I'll second that. Okay and everyone who approves speak your names. Eric. Liz. And Steve. So that one is approved. In the next set of minutes is for October the 19th. Is everyone had a chance to take a look at that? Yes. I'll move approval. Do I hear a second? I'll second. All in favor of the October the 19th speak your names. Eric. Yes. Hannah. Yes. Steve. Yes. I think I was at that meeting so I'm not voting. So that one is approved as well. Does anyone have anything else to add? There are shows in 89 Main Street or city center an informal review of the skinny pancake. And are you on still? We have an email here. Is there anyone to describe their project again? Yeah. Hi. Can you hear me? Yes. Yes. Cool. Yeah. So we would after all these years really like to put in a full system in our restaurant. All of our other locations we serve burgers in the evening. There are some other limitations. We've actually done a lot over the years with the space given we're looking to put in a you cook things like a hamburger which we are not currently able to cook. And we've worked with the building owner and with sort of the local most tenured professional group systems in the area called Nev tech look for an internal route run the vent and it really there is no viable internal route is what they have both repeatedly come back to which leads us looking to the front of the building which is not where I would want to go but I don't see another option and I'm engaged with the city council and asked about this and this just was made to be painted so we took the proposal from a local artist and on it was resoundingly interesting. So here I am to ask you a different type of art we could kind of paint like the brick is there a viable way that we could run a vent stack of a food system up on Main Street coming out of the skinny pancake yeah I think it would come out at the top. Benji would you like me to share my screen with the packet so that everybody can be looking at the same thing? Sure yeah absolutely that would be great. So I've got up right now where they're thinking about running the stock where they've been able to find a place to run it um right here's another view from the other side and then you have to bear with me while I rotate the screen all the way around because for some reason in this view it won't let me rotate it counterclockwise. Here we go. So this I think Benji you said was what you've done in Burlington a few years ago right? Yes that that was uh we painted it to blend in um to the facade behind it. Yeah and this is you said you took this picture just recently correct? I did yes that right before I yeah like a month though. Please feel free to ask me to scroll or do whatever on this. Can you show us the um the Montpelier building drawings? I'll have to rotate again so give me a second. Okay so the duct is at 12 inches wide and 12 inches deep it looks like? Yes that's correct. Yes it's just flushed to the building except up on the roof. Uh yeah yep it's like you know fixed with brackets maybe a few inches off it's the same duct you would see um you know for any restaurant um so it goes up to the silicon floor then takes a diagonal across. I think that's in the other window. Yeah it would certainly help um kind of camouflage it I guess. Yeah I think the original proposal was like um painting it was uh not trying to hide it but actually like it was a Mary Lacey she's done a lot of large-scale painting area and um it was like very artistic um you know notable noticeable intentionally um but we can also paint it to look like brick. I have a question. I really want to be supportive of this of the skinny pancake but I had a very hard time with this vent in the front of the building if it was in the side of the building I wouldn't have a problem at all and I understand your situation I understand you're stuck. Yeah um thanks Martha I um I'm not doing myself any favors in saying this but I understand why you would have some concern and so my question is like if you're dissing this thanks but no thanks that okay I just probably I would like to do this if you gave me permission but if you feel like it's not something you want to give permission then I just sort of kind of want to close the book on the option um but we got interrupted sort of mid pandemic early pandemic we never came to the idea of can we camouflage it there's that to consider. The uh a question the uh Bluestone Pizza has a direct vent out on the street and I'm not particularly fond of it but is there any chance of doing that? Uh no that's I believe that's grandfathered in um although it has been pointed out to me as well if they can do it why can't you and that's that's what grandfathering is you know I'd like to ask a question. I have a question about the structure of the building I'm assuming that the skinny pancake that the floor of your space is a slab there's I mean there's no space or crawl space underneath it correct? That is my understanding. And then how much what's the height of the ceiling in the skinny pancake? I don't know maybe 10 feet it feels a little um I'm not quite sure but I would guess 10 feet. Now your neighbor next door is is still AT&T? Yes. Has anything been explored about running a horizontal duct from your space through AT&T to the outside of the building on the side of the building? Yeah we talked about that um and it seemed it was deemed unfeasible um you know we'd have to tear out their drop ceiling in order to run the duct we'd interrupt their business for like a week um it doesn't seem like that's there's no there's no space above the drop ceiling? No in fact there is um in fact there was once a duct that ran there for a bagel shop a long time ago I was told but it's a matter of it's another operating business who are we to step in there and say hey we're going to tear out your roof and disrupt your business you know for a week um the bagel works was in where AT&T. That's right. Other question is is there any way you can get a straight shot up the building by for example going into this to the space uh the entry space? Um that seems possible um uh as it's uh wouldn't necessarily interrupt AT&T so if that worked thereby but you see the way the windows are laid out I'm not sure that would help. Right. But I wonder if you could run up the stairway there inside the building. I mean uh well I mean when we've explored routes inside the building uh there is a tenant upstairs and um you know it intersects their building their space I mean I have been told I haven't looked at their space specifically but what I have been told by the landlord is it's not feasible. Um and just a quick note on the where where was go ahead Steve. I had I had a question about the pre-existing duct for the bakery or whatever was there before is is that above the suspended ceiling? Well I don't think the duct is there anymore but I I think the bagel shop had a duct that was running out the side of the building not on main street um so it suggests that if we could cross there and pride much stuff there uh you know it was mostly a heat and steam vent uh the the other question uh I hate you know suggesting designs because you've clearly thought about this a lot but running it out running your duct work sort of at the corner in the front of the building where your seating is now outside. Um well we certainly I think we we haven't looked in that direction because it seemed like that was only uh more prominent um at the corner state and main like that uh if it could if it could be run up right on the corner of the building uh it would I think it would be it wouldn't be very visible at that point not like a zigzag up the side. I'm totally happy to explore options that the committee thinks are potentially viable and come back with some designs um I think I'm trying to get a sense whether you feel there is anything viable working on the main street facade so if you think it's the corner of the building I'm I'm open to looking at that. I and I I agree with Marcia that I'd really have a hard time approving it's right on a primary facade of the main street on the building and the the kind of zigzag is bothers me because if you just had a straight box going up the side it becomes almost you know it's not very visible uh and and painting it to match the bricks it's just not very uh very feasible I mean you've got thank you for putting that up I don't know who did it but uh if you can describe where you were thinking Eric I could run the pointer. I see there's two places one is just right on the corner right yep up that way and the other would be back in the corner uh in that in that corner. Just a quick note and this is something that I'm not totally sure of and Benji I don't know if you have that resource handy but since you're talking about like burgers and frying stuff I don't know how much horizontal venting they can have for that kind of venting that has grease potentially collecting it I just don't know. You can travel a distance horizontally whenever you have a turn you need to have a clean out um and so the more turns you have the more clean outs you have um yeah um there is a fire escape uh sort of right in the corner next to the city center facade and our building right right in there so I don't know if we could get in there I might my hunch is we couldn't maybe here we maybe if we penetrate it yeah you could come out uh above the sign band and go up on either either corner that would be good I don't know what the inside it must be an office in the corner on the second and third floors uh I don't I don't know what's in those corners I'm thinking about the inside. I'm curious if you folks feel that uh working on that um what would it be um on that other face and not the main street face but the sort of one that points towards Langdon Street. Is that patio face? Yeah is that would that improve the situation? It would for me Benji. I could live with with Eric's suggestion of going up a corner there. Okay I have a question has was Black River Design ever consulted regarding the potential the place of vent? I'm not familiar with Black River Design. Was there the ones who originally designed the building? No no that's not I'm sorry Black River did not design the building. It was a guy named Bill Richmond that designed the building and he was independent. In the Etchers know we we engaged Nevdeck. They're like pushing 40 years of installing hood systems throughout Vermont mostly but elsewhere as well. Yeah I can come back with a proposal that focuses on the corner to the left of the blue flag. For what it's worth that my mind's eye between the blue flag and the American flag I think that's is that a Vermont flag or between the American flag and the Canadian flag seems like it might be a little less invasive and right on the corner. I think right on the corner would blend more would be able to blend it in more. And would you want us to try to paint it in like brick? Yeah okay I don't know I don't say I don't necessarily if you extended it up that corner and right on the corner and painted it to match the I don't know what the material is above the sign band. It would look like part of the building. Right so we'd paint that section gray but as it went up because it has to go up past the roof line we would try to continue to blend it in as brick. Yeah I would guess well. I can support it on the corner as well. I'm curious about whether it would also be maybe a place for some of our the various different Montpelier banner signs that you can kind of see one in the corner on the on the light post that one yes and then further down. It feels like it might be a nice way to be sorry come yeah right you can I'm pointing at it Meredith why can't you see me point. Yes on that on that well you can on the various light poles there's all these different Montpelier signs and I think there is possibly some way to make that structure for the vent be able to maybe be something that helps beautify the downtown with things like that that makes it feel maybe a little bit more intentional I don't know. Some kind of a design painted on it and actually turn it into something like a sign. I think you know I thought about making it into a column put a round up and make it into a column. But I had that same thought. I think there's opportunity to go up that side of the building and I would be interested to see what you came back with and I think that's a great suggestion of yours Eric to move it over there and I feel like in that moment even if it did become more of a statement piece of art it makes a lot more sense on that side than it does with some weird turn and sure you know like I feel like that that's a place where a piece of art would go that would feel intentional where on the other side it did doesn't feel intentional and so I mean I obviously like Montpelier you know like great about celebrating the arts and if we can contribute in that way like that would be really fulfilling for us. The challenge there is one person's great artistic taste is the next person's like you know agreed. So how do we get to a place that feels good for y'all and then ultimately the city you know. I certainly I will come forward with one version which is painted in as brick the next time I show up kind of regardless just so it's there as a place. Yeah I was thinking of the Troy New York sign I don't know if you're familiar with Troy New York they have a logo that's like it is the Troy logo and as you all were talking I was imagining some kind of statement and you know we could you know some I mean it can change you know we could over time could say something different over the course of years we could repaint it but can y'all have any thought on process there other than us just kind of pulling something out of a hat and saying what do you think? My suggestion would be that I get you in touch with Montpelier alive who coordinated all those banners that are on all the light posts and have also coordinated some other place making work here in Montpelier and see if they have something that they've been working on that maybe could team up with you in fairly short order. One thing to keep in mind is that building was designed to be art deco you can look at the the entrance way the main entrance is that way and it actually had a cornice at one time and little over the windows and that was taken out for financial and federal review pieces so some kind of a design that fit in with that art deco mold might motif might work pretty well. Can you say that art deco what was that? Art deco it's just look it up ART and then space DECO it's just an architectural style. Okay Mr. Art deco okay yeah cool um well I can reach out or you know I directly or way to get put in touch with Montpelier alive and look to put a proposal forward that um yeah ideally builds on vibrancy doesn't detract from it. The idea of trying to conceal it by painting it like brick I don't care much for that because it's never really going to look right yeah yeah how good the stone is a little different yeah from Burlington yeah I mean you could just paint it the color of brick but I agree with Eric I don't think it should look like bricks this is an option but it could there's other options too. I think painting it the same color as the material over the sign band I don't know what that is but so it's just a white post going up the side of the building okay yeah it is if I start generating the Montpelier alive are herbs an option or should we stay away from words? I don't think so I think words would be fine I think uh you know just if it just said welcome to Montpelier on it that would be kind of cool yeah I'm into that Eric okay thank you all so much for the creative we appreciate your efforts cool thank you yes it's a very very tough problem to try to solve all right still meet an enough criteria yeah yeah thanks Benji yeah good luck with it thank you very much okay thank you so much goodbye I'll be in touch and we'll work you know I'll help as needed to help you get an application put together cool thank you you're awesome really appreciate everyone thank you thank you for coming and subscribing of course thanks for your time bye does anyone have any other business at this point no only thing I'd like to do is remind people that uh the historic preservation commission is going to be working on a guidebook for these uh new designer view rags and any suggestions anybody have a before and welcome the um HBC will be meeting again next week um and so if you have any thoughts on guidelines before then that would be great but we'll still take them after that as well we're working at this point on a grant application as well as an RFP to try and get proposals to actually then affect on that grant hoping that we actually win some money um then the other separate item I just wanted to tell you as well as any public watching is that um city hall is the the city clerk's office of course is going to be open to the public for voting tomorrow but other offices in city hall will be closed and then city hall will be closed to the public for the remainder of this week until next Tuesday because there's going to be so many people going through city hall um tomorrow that they want to make sure they give it all a thorough cleaning thanks okay thank you unless anyone has anything else do I hear a motion to adjourn certainly I second it all in favor of adjournment speak your names eric marcia liz ben ganna and steve meeting is adjourned thank you all thanks everybody good to see you without a mask even bye