 also global public goods so many developing countries are raising the question of whether in fact We are short changing the traditional development agenda by using the same limited pot of ODA for these other Equally important but different purposes That of course was part of the conversation in Shermel shake. It's been a lot of the discussion in the Way in which you can mobilize private capital Bertrand you have been thinking Bertrand Baldera You have been thinking about it acting on these issues for many years I know you have been recently talking about the outcome of Shermel shake as well in this I want to get a little bit your sense on where the debate stands and and where you think the challenges lie in terms of Making progress coming back to I mean that was first suggestion that we start looking at how to move to the solutions Also, thank you. Masoud and it's great to be here. Thank you theory Yes, it's we discussed that last year already I think the waters are more trouble even than they were last year as you rightly said in your opening remarks theory We are the moment where on the one end we have as a conv it is a convergence of traditional crisis Economic crisis social crisis energy crisis, etc And also an underlying transformation of many things and the combination of this crisis and transformation is very difficult to handle Transformation are geopolitical. I mean the decarbonization of our economy was being discussed in Montreal starting today on biodiversity Of course, there's a technological changes and AI. I mean all these things are making this puzzle a little bit difficult to apprehend On top of that we have and this is really what matters in what you said this Growing tension between I would say the north and the south or maybe the west and the south. Let me put it this way We've seen that with the vaccines. We've seen that with the debate on you know this when I'm to ray on the gas in Africa Two years ago. It was bad to finance gas now. We have a little gas problem. So we turn back to Africa and say maybe we should reopen the door We have also these tensions on demography on the one end. We have this demographic push We are an aging world and I've read some papers on the European demography and the needs to open to immigration to migrations and the other and people don't want migrations So all this makes this a little bit difficult on top of that you have what mr. Macron has called the two elephants You have the China and the US which are two elephants fighting each other and they don't care about what's around the elephants So we are in a world where on top of that and this is really a concern to me We are trying to develop a new sets of norms and standards and in particular seen from Europe We develop everything which is connected to ESG and impact and a new way to discuss sustainable finance Sustainable investment, which I think is is well-intentioned and I've been supporting that for ages, but you see which is also Increasing the gap between several parts of the world sometimes when I want to be provocative I say I don't want Europe to become Bobo long You know where we're very nice and cozy between us and we explain to the rest of what you should do like us But it's not working this way And so that's that's really where I want to come from to come to your questions And all of this is also in at a moment where I believe I'm It's Jean-Marie tried to mitigate my feeling that a lot of people are less and less concerned But what's happening far from them? Maybe some of you will remember the short novel from Voltaire Candid as 200 years ago or 250 years ago Which ends by we have to cultivate our garden And people I think we exist literally today my garden I mean the world is too complex climates too big refugees too big cyber security too big I just can't handle this. So I'm taking care of my garden literally understood We know with fences and if I do take care of my garden the world will be okay The problem is that I think both Voltaire and us today should not think what the garden has a closed ring-fenced area But as our planet and how do we move from the garden to the planet and back and forth? And that's that's really where we are today And I think it's it's very difficult including from a private sector perspective because now your garden is yielding more money Two years ago when you put your money at home, you got zero now you got four percent So why should I go to Africa if I can get four percent at home? So everything is converging in that direction So I think we have to really take into account a number of Avenues to explore and and the sooner the better and that's probably what president Macron As in mind when he's convening this summit in June on resetting the relationship with the global south I think there is one avenue which has been discussed for ages and You mentioned it which is the security council the Bretton Woods system, etc I mean of course it must be discussed and as French would probably have more to lose than others I think it's difficult, but it's it needs to be put on the table definitely then we also have to put on the table the use of New financing. I mean you've you've mentioned you've entered at the SDR What can we do with the SDR? This is real money that can be created and distributed and leveraged accordingly And this is taking time. It's difficult, but we have to put this on the table We also have to look at the idea idea is a concessional money from the World Bank Group We need to do more. I've tried when I was there to do more. We can leverage ideas There are hundreds of billions which are available there provided we showed it a bit of courage and imagination We have and I've said this many times We have to have the development institutions work together as a system. Everybody is working in its silos They don't want to cooperate. They compete with each other. Let's face it. So here again It's not so much a shareholder than the institution. It's a system together So I think we have ample resources at At our at our hands that we don't use for a number of reasons So I think this is more actionable than the just say let's reform Bretton Woods There is money that we can mobilize. I think and and maybe Maurice will remember that 20 years ago with President Shirak. We work on new innovative mechanism President Shack had a good formula. He said Globalization should pay for globalization. I think it's it's a way And this we created 20 years ago the tax on plane tickets to finance unit aid medical research I think we have to find new global resources. That's a nice way to unite unite people Maybe it's a tax and I know when French people so to speak about tax. It's suspicious But maybe tax on extractive Extractive industries, maybe tax on carbon me I have no idea but find some things that put us in the same boat and that that guarantees some Flow of money over the years not dependent on the wheel of parliament's year after year after year So I think we have to work in that direction and that's where we also a way to work on global public goods as well I think we also have to Develop new instruments. I mean you mentioned some of them The question is not to move money from one pot to the other with the same amount of money But I think we have to redesign Our ODA in an appropriate manner. I mean we talk about public goods We don't do much about this and it's true that if you tell the development decision or you have to finance public goods They will take money out of the bilateral aid to public goods And then people will be angry and rightly so and then comes a mobilization of the private sector Which is extremely dear to my heart It's more and more difficult because precisely of the what I mentioned the financial conditions have changed the interest of people has changed They are less interested in emerging market and developing economies. It's more risky. It's far away Mike some people tell me my clients don't want their money to be sent so far away They want their money to be used in France in the US America first. That is true So how do we do we really find a way to mobilize and I think it's it's now the time to address All types of issues which have been known for ages I mean I've participated to hundreds of panels on mobilizing private money on blended finance on Public private cooperation. We know all the solutions. So we don't need another one, but we really need to say, okay What are the technical obstacles? I mean, there are technical obstacles regarding the definition of ODA How do you take into account guarantees guarantees are not taken into account in ODA and Really, I mean with guarantees you can leverage more money than by direct transfer That's again. I don't want to be boring, but that's one one idea You have to do look at the buzzer three constraints You have to look at the sovereignty to constraints. You have to take them one by one What are the obstacles and then you have to really make a push the cultural issue? It is important We will not win the climate battle in Paris, Brussels or Washington We will win the climate battle in Lagos, Delhi and Bogota So if you want to get that battle won, we have to transfer the money and the skills, etc If we don't do it, we're gonna lose it. That's what I call the billion students We have to really shift the needle and go in in that direction. I think it's extremely important And we have also to make sure that the development institutions agree that the key The ways they should be incentivized the ways they should be assessed is do they mobilize private money? And it is not the case today. It's still marginal and and we really have to change that if we don't change that Private money will not move. Let's face it. There is no incentive whatsoever to move in scalable manner So I think I don't think we will have a revolution. I think we need a revolution That's again my French flavor. I Don't think we'll get it. Let's face it. We will not reform bet on wood this year We will not find the the magic system to mobilize private sector, but I think we need a serious evolution We need to really be serious about this. I'm really tired of fooling myself with all this conversation We say yeah, we should do that. We should do that. And so little is changing I think again, we will not find a way to to calm the waters But if we can find a way to use a song build a bridge over the trouble water, that would be good enough. Thank you Very good. So now we have the garden which we thought we could protect but actually as you say Unfortunately, no matter how much you tend your own garden the forces that are impacting it are global and You've identified that's our number of technical things could be done. You mentioned SDRs About two years ago. There was as many of you know a big allocation of new SDR $650 billion and this is a really remarkable achievement in the middle of the pandemic and there was a big effort to say that Apart from the initial allocation a lot of the SDRs More than two-thirds went to countries that didn't really need them rich countries and they should recycle these SDRs They should find ways to provide these SDRs to countries that needed the money and Many mechanisms were discussed here. We are two years later and the fact of the matter is that While some of those SDRs have moved from the central banks of rich countries To the account of the IMF Not a single SDR has yet reached any poor country Two years later. So we have just had a big conversation and a moving of numbers across accounts But so far no real transfer has taken place