 Good morning. Can I, is it too much to ask you all to kind of come a little closer? Just a little closer. 10 seconds, just yes. Thank you. If that's okay. Only if that's okay. You can also stay where you are. Thank you so much. Alright. So, we're on time now, but usually I am late. In this particular situation is 9.03 and I am late. Despite the fact that five minutes ago, no, eight minutes ago, everything started pinging, you know, Slack ping me, Google Calendar ping me. I got a text message, I got an email that I had a call. I got all the pop-ups about having an email about having a call. Yet I am late because I went to edit the agenda item and lost track of time. It doesn't really matter how benign the reason I'm late is. When I walk into, walk into Zoom, Jenny looks really pissed. What is happening, Petja? This is turning into a thing. You're late for every meeting. This is totally disrespectful of my time. It's turning into a real thing for me, she says. This is the first thing she says when I open Zoom. I take a deep breath and try my very best to not roll my eyes. And I mutter an apology immediately, instinctively. And then I try to move away, promising, semi-promising that I'll try to not be late for meetings anymore. Behind my forehead, my grumpy, moody Bulgarian is just losing it. Why? Why is this a team? Why is this such a big deal? Why is three minutes such a big deal? I stay composed, but I don't have time to process. Usually, when I get into a situation like that, you know, experience from the last several years has taught me, stop, Petja, count to ten in those ten seconds. You'll be able to rationalize and it will be okay. But I don't have time. I'm already late and we've got stuff to do. So I just stay pissed until the rest of the meeting. And I'm pretty sure that because of that, we probably get a little bit less done than we would have if I had taken ten seconds. The thing is, I realize once I'm off the call and before I start granting to somebody else about how, you know, Jenny is about being on time, I take these ten seconds and I, like, it always takes ten seconds and I got it. You keep forgetting Petja, I remember. Jenny is actually American. She's not French. You know, just because you met her through the French WordPress community, it doesn't matter if time is as fluid to her as it is in your mind. Jenny is American and you know, you know that about Americans. Time is money. That's what they get taught from a very early age. They're very particular about time. You, you're not particular about time. I was born in Communist Bulgaria, which was particular about things, including time, but the regime fell when I was seven and then it was chaos. In the 90s, which actually brought me up, there were no rules. And actually people rebelled against everything that was to be related to the regime. And time was my tiny little quirk. The thing that I did to rebel because I was a very good girl that went to school and had good grades. I mean, the fun fact is I almost didn't graduate because in 12th grade they almost threw me out of school because I was notoriously late for class. And like a leftover from the Communist regime was that, you know, if you're late like 30 seconds, if you come in after the teacher walks in, you get 15 minutes deducted out of a 45-minute class. And then that piles up and piles up and piles up. I've always been able to kind of get away with it, you know. You know, using charm and being, you know, actually participating in class and my teachers loved me. So, you know, here and there, it wasn't that big of a team thing. But I never really thought of time as being such a big deal, a particular time in general. But it is. It's one of the eight big things that actually differentiate between cultures to an extent so much that it can actually bring quite a lot of arguments that can, you know, be in a way of you communicating and working effectively with others. So, as I started working for a global company, I very quickly realized that we all speak English and kind of with the language comes the culture of the Anglo-clusters that everybody working with English assumes needs to be, you know, the culture, the habits of everybody working in any industry using English as a primary language. But it's not really that simple. Because most of the misunderstanding that comes in day-to-day communication is not based on the fact that somebody speaks better English than another person, you know. It's mostly about differences in the cultural programming of people that have to communicate and collaborate to get things done. And in your professional life, you've come across this concept, you know, you had to be smart to be good at business, right? You had to be smart and have like high IQ to be successful in any way. Then at some point, emotional intelligence became a thing and you had to be good with people. But nobody told you at that time you started developing your emotional intelligence and what they meant was being good with people like you. So, what culture intelligence is all about is being good with people who are not necessarily like you. And this is what we're going to talk about today. There's a Danish social psychologist that I really like, but I can hardly go through like a full lecture of his. But I like this definition that he does, that culture is the software of the mind and it's the operating system that invisibly runs your life without you even realizing it. It's what your habits, your behavior come from. It's the way you've been programmed to see the world. And before I dig in further, I want to talk a little bit about stereotypes because at one point or another during this talk, you're going to get a little pissed and be like, well, if you just know the people you're working with, if you know who they are, if you know what they're all about, if you get to know them better, you're not going to have to deal with this and you're not going to have to put them in boxes and judge them by the environment that built them. That is true. And these arguments are really valid. Speaking of cultural differences leads us to stereotype and therefore puts individuals in boxes, should be looking and judging people as individuals. That's true. But ignoring cultural context means always judging everybody with your own culture as a benchmark. And that is the big difference. So cultural intelligence is actually an outsider's seemingly natural ability to perceive and to kind of understand the behaviors of people that are not like them as if they are like them or as if they're compatriots. Over the years, I've been focusing on two main roles. I was helped before with all that was read before I jumped on stage, but I spent almost eight years of my life now at Human Made, which was a small work-press agency ten years ago. Now it's a big work-press agency. And I also was involved for a very long time with the WordPress Polyglot team. When Human Made started, it was a bunch of nerds in the UK doing work-press sites that just wanted to do their own thing with their friends. Over the years, it grew into this global, cross-cultural, multi-regional, work-press enterprise business. And I've been really privileged to have been a part of that growth for the majority and gone through like the processes of understanding how we can work better even using our differences as an advantage. But before that I was Human Made. I was a work-press and the work-press polyglots team. And those are the people that taught me the most. Even though I couldn't put a structure around it, I put a lot of experience around it. And, yeah, luckily later on in life I kind of was able to also use that experience in my work at Human Made. And when I started with the WordPress polyglots, I didn't know what I was doing. And all I can think about is just like, how can you know all things about all people, you know? When Ze, who was leading the polyglots team before I took over, stepped down, I was just like, how are you doing this? I don't know nothing. How am I going to do this? He said, Petja, people just want somebody to listen to them. I said, oh, thanks. Yeah, that's really great advice. I still know nothing. Turns out years later, getting into something like this knowing nothing is quite a bit more useful than if you had gotten into thinking that you know everything. Because you can't. You can't know all things about all people, but you also don't have to. Really don't. Because in the base of developing your cultural intelligence, it's the ability for you to suspend judging everybody else's behavior based on what you know and what your habits are and what you've learned, counting to 10, and then maybe thinking before you react. So in a way, cultural intelligence is emotional intelligence with a bit of curiosity about what's happening in front of you and why. Why are we like this? All right. Did I already speak about the global cultural clusters? If I haven't, I'm going to forbid. The global cultural clusters that David Livermore speaks about are over there. I'm not going to focus on geographic location because culture is really not all about geography. In fact, I was chatting to Catam who is where you come. Over there, the other day, he was helping me with some stuff about this talk and he shared that he feels way better embedded and understood by his work colleagues, like his work friends, than he does by most Americans from the US. And that's normal because there are cultures and levels that are different than just geographic location. We as wordpressers have a shared culture and it's very usual for us to understand each other quite a lot better than we would with anybody from any other industry just based on that. So it's important to also acknowledge that these are very high level and it's absolutely okay for you to be born in one place but care a different culture because of where your parents came from or how you were raised or what you chose for yourself. So it's absolutely okay for you to be a total mess of several cultures like me, born in that weird era at the end of the Soviet Union and then living in a country that was trying to figure itself out for years, copying some Western standards when it came to work, trying very hard not to copy too much so that you can still keep some sort of identity. And over the years working with the polyglots, working with the humans, you learn a lot of lessons, you're in a lot of confusing situations, you go through weird things that you don't understand, you try and understand them, you learn, you grow. But I've never really been able to put any of that in any type of structure before I read this book called The Culture Map by Aaron Mere who put the world on a scale, on a map with eight scales that are the main things that are different for different cultures based on geographic location but not only. These are the eight scales, communicating low versus high context cultures, evaluating direct versus indirect negative feedback, persuading principles versus applications first, leading egalitarian versus hierarchical structures, deciding consensual versus top-down, trusting, fast or experienced based, disagreeing, embracing conflict or avoiding confrontation, scheduling linear time versus flexible time. We're not going to have time to go in depth. I highly recommend if you're interested in culture to just like take a look at this book. But I want to introduce you to some of my colleagues that helped me actually develop this talk and some others that are going to be mentioned in this talk. I already mentioned Jenny. She's over there. She's from the United States but lives in France. Catam, who is in the top right corner, who is American. Jenny Wong on top, who is first-generation British citizen of Chinese descent and she mixes cultures wonderfully. Down there, that's Miguel from Brazil, one of my favorite new colleagues. I'm from Bulgaria, Vanita from India and Lorna from Singapore. As I said, we're the first team and I kind of reached out to them while I was preparing this talk to chat a little bit about their experiences across different levels of the scale. So we're going to start exploring a little bit all the eight scales of the culture map, communicating low context versus high context cultures. Can you read between the lines? Do you prefer to be taught directly what you have to do? Do you prefer a more sophisticated way of communicating? Do you get annoyed when someone repeats something in front of you like you're maybe a little child, like I get annoyed when that happens? That's the big difference between low context and high context cultures. In high context cultures, good communication is sophisticated and layered. Messages are both set out loud but also read between the lines. Messages are also often implied and assumed body language is absolutely crucial. In low context cultures, good communication is straightforward and direct. Good communication is welcome. Anything is actually welcome as long as it clarifies things. So it gets very, very interesting how low context versus high context cultures clash in a remote work environment because we can't really read body language. And for a lot of people from high context cultures, that's a very, very big part of what you're saying. How you say something matters way more than what you're actually saying. I mean, I'd say that that matters quite a lot for everybody, but still. If you deliver a very straightforward, clear message in a particular way, the way you deliver it will be taken into consideration way more than what you're actually saying in high context cultures. Whereas somebody from a low context culture will take away what you said and don't really bother that much about any of your delivery. And at the same time, you know, repeating over and over, and that's happened to me recently, somebody on my exact team, like I was trying to get a message through and I wasn't succeeding and I kept repeating the same thing. But this is what my outcome is and I got to repeat the same thing over and over. I heard you the first time. I'm not a little child, Petia. And I was just, okay, it's not why I was doing it. I was trying to say very straightforward what I want to do. Do you agree with that? It's difficult in those situations. It's also difficult working with people from our Asia Pacific region or with clients from our Asia Pacific region who never show their faces on camera unless they're dressed for work. Which during the pandemic, during the pandemic was not a very, very usual, you know, situation. So you end up working with avatars. There is a very straightforward, according to all the books way of managing across multicultural teams. And that is defaulting to low context. Straightforward messaging, etc. It makes sense. It really makes sense. But what it doesn't make sense of is that not everybody always speaks up. Not everybody will always say the things that they think about. Not everybody will always be vocal. And it very, very much depends on where they come from, around how they express themselves, even in writing. And some people might be limited by this form of communication. So it's very important that people that don't come from low context cultures are invited to those conversations. I remember this is actually a story for another slide. Let's not get carried away with this. Let's look into this one, which is my favorite one and the one that confused me the most because I had to face it head on. Human Made is a very egalitarian company. It would never occur to anybody to call Tom our CEO, anything else but Tom. Some people don't really know his last name and get confused with other Tom's in the company. He just strolled barefoot during company retreats and in his swim trunks during State of the Humans, which is our version of State of the World. I've seen him wear the same pants for eight years in a row. He's a very, very, very low-key guy. And it was like obviously the founders kind of build the culture and the motto. It's very normal for us to be informal in our communication at work to kind of speak like that. And usually that projects quite a bit towards our clients. We would call our clients by name, we would speak to them like at first name basis, like we would call our stakeholders and even like in written communication, we wouldn't really use our names that often. But that could not be the case when we started working with Japan. When not only we were meant to be dressed for work, but you know, there was a very formal way of having to communicate with them. And we had so many clashes in the beginning of those relationships, so many things that we couldn't understand. And because our American and our Japanese and our Asia-Pacific teams had to collaborate. Can you hear me? Yeah, okay, I thought I lost myself for a moment. There were quite a lot of confusing moments that we had to figure out. So the biggest thing for me with the low versus high power distance cultures was when I had to hire my team. Because I did allocation management that the human made at this time, I needed a team that could cross over the world. I needed to hire an APAC and I needed to hire an American because I'm in Europe. We can cover the regions. And I hired Shannon, who lives close to Chicago, who's lovely, and Vanita, who lives in Bangalore in India, who's also lovely. And they had so much in common in their enthusiasm and passion for the world. They really love people, they're very outgoing, you know, so much in common. And they had such fundamental differences that it hit me really hard how much of a different approach I had to have with both of them so we can actually work effectively. Shannon and I could deal with it, you know. Five years at Human Made had taught me how to deal with Angla cultures. You know, people are communicating directly, you know what to expect, you know how to talk to them, all that. But working with Vanita caught me off guard. Four days in, we were in a meeting and I'm giving her feedback in front of the whole team about something that she had prepared for the meeting. I was like, you should do this, you know, in this way or this way, like this is probably better done in X, Y, and Z ways. And it's very, you know, it's what I consider like very mild, kind of not critical, but just like a small correction an opportunity for her to learn to grow for the team to know what we're talking about so, you know, they can help along and know where she struggles. She grows quiet 30 seconds after I started speaking and doesn't speak until the end of the call. She only says okay and keeps nodding with this expression on her face. We go into a one-on-one because I sense that something's different. We go into a one-on-one immediately after the call and she starts crying. She's like, you're gonna fire me, right? I was like, what? What are you talking about? She's like, you just like, you just criticize me in front of the whole team. Like, you just told me that I didn't do something right. I was just like, but this was just, you know, we talked about this. We talked about giving feedback in context and you know, we're just like working through issues as they were happening and like this is the way. And you agreed. You said yes, like I like to work like that. And this is like, and of course I will agree. You're my boss, like you're telling me how things are done. Like of course I will agree. And then of course, you know, you're gonna, I thought that you're gonna fire me. Like you can't really give people feedback in public unless you intend to do such and such action in India. And then I got it. India is one of the most high-power distance countries out there. It was normal for her to think about critical feedback in public, meant that she was in real trouble. And she still has to this day difficulty giving me feedback in public. They do not speak to anyone that they report to in public or do critical feedback in public, regardless of how transparent the company culture is. She has difficulty giving me feedback at all. Had to drag it out of her using ways that might not be straightforward. And she still to this day, not to this day. So we've worked through these issues, but like at least in the first six months, like she really wanted me to run everything that she was doing through me. She needed permission to do any part of her job. And that was inexplicable to me. Autonomy is like how human-made became successful. We have it built in our culture and all that. But autonomy has to be taught to some people that come from different cultures. You have to teach them not to ask for permission. The head or the heart, how do you build trust? Apparently, you can't do business in Japan without going to karaoke. Did you know that? You can't. And you can't do business in Portugal without overeating. I also didn't know that. And that is true for Italy and any of the European or Latin American countries. Well, I didn't know that. So when I went to Japan, because of the jet lag and everything, I tend to generally kind of skip social events at work camps. No, I said no, no. No, no. If you want to do like any sort, if you want to have any sort of relationship with these people, you go and you think karaoke, you make a fool of yourself. Like, you get that mic and just like scream into it. Do whatever. It doesn't really matter. What matters is you have to be there and then everything in the morning will be fine. Apparently, some of this like various cultural differences with relation-based countries involve heavy drinking, which you still can't get out of. But yeah, I don't know. You can at least maybe pretend. I don't know. But the thing is in the West and in the Anglo-clusters, trust is built based on tasks. You will do what you said you will do. You're very professional at work. You're always on time. You communicate clearly. You're organized. You're fine. I trust you. Where in the other cultures, it's not really like that. You've got to go do karaoke. And multicultural remote teams need FaceTime, because that mix of people is really built. The trust can't really be built. You can't really see each other. Decisions are made by those who show up. I heard that it was an American core contributor giving a talk at one work camp once upon a time. And it turned out it's a sorkin quote from the West Wing. Perfect. And it was like a principle of WordPress. Really great. But then over time, you observe chats on Slack, on the WordPress Slack, and you actually understand the decisions are made by those who show up. And they're to speak up and actually participate. And the two types of decision-making across cultures are consensual and top-down. And if you have a multicultural team, the first thing you have to decide is how you're going to be making decisions. Otherwise, you will go asking the room. Some of the room will speak. Other people will never raise their hands. And the worst thing that you can do is in an established consensual decision-making environment to go in and force a top-down decision. Trust. If you're in Japan, you can go to karaoke, but I don't know what you do if you're anywhere else. We're trying, like, embedding the concepts of high-performing teams of human-made right now. And one of them, one of the principles, is that you have to embrace conflict as a productive way to move past an obstacle. All men was our APAC team freaked. So many people in these cultures don't really do public conflict. They don't. And in talking to Lorna and Vanita about it, like, there are principles deeply embedded in the culture that say that, you know, you resolve things privately. You resolve things between individuals. You can't, like, have a public fight in a room and then be okay. On the other hand is my colleague Frank, who doesn't really mind calling you an idiot in a post or anything like that and then going to lunch with you and just, like, having a really nice chat. It's not an issue. Like, he doesn't really consider that to be problematic. It's the most usual thing to sit down with, you know, the Portuguese and the German to have, like, a really heated discussion. I mean, the Germans don't really get heated. All you get is this. Well, they argue, but still, you know, they get heated in their own way. And you disagree and you, like, scream. I mean, some scream, some, like, very, very, kind of earnestly disagree. And then your friend, you go for drinks. It's fine. And some cultures, if you do that in public, there's no way. There's no way you want to see this person later. There's no way you want to work with them, any of that. So embracing conflict is quite tricky. So you think about that. Just don't imply everything. Don't apply everything that you want to do in a cross-cultural company in the same way throughout your regions. Speaking frankly, is that a gift or a slap in the face when you give feedback? Is that a direct negative feedback? Do you sugarcoat it or not? This deeply matters. And the why versus how? Do you start with how you're going to solve an issue or the theory around how an issue should be solved? Those are the other two. I'm running a little bit behind, so I'm not going to get into detail on these ones because I want to talk about this one. Time. So in linear time, project steps come one after another. Deadlines matter. Everything is fixed. And we know what the cultures are. That's really, really what the cultural clusters are that really, really depend on that. In a flexible time, flexibility is everything. Project steps are approaching the fluid matter. The focus is on adaptability and not on everything being done in a particular order. So, sorry. So on the scheduling scale, we've got Germany and Switzerland on one side. We've got India and Kenya and some of the Asia clusters on the other side. And I, and somewhere, I guess, around the Russians on like a little bit of the fluid side, but don't really know where exactly. Because the culture map is a scale. It really depends not only where you come from, but like who you are. What are the cultures that influenced your growth? And that's something that you shouldn't be forgetting. So how do we do this? How do we know all things about all people? How do we develop our cultural intelligence? It starts with figuring out what your core is. What are the things that make you you? But maybe, really, you. What are the things without you're not going to be you anymore? And what is the flex? Where is the flexibility that you have to adapt and to grow? On the left hand there is the salesman that will flex to sell you anything. They will not have absolutely any core values. And you won't trust them for the world. They don't have anything that makes them them. They will flex towards you. On the other hand, over there is granddad who will not flex about anything. He is who he is. This is the way he does things. And there's no moving that. There's no moving the scale. And in the middle there is your ability to adapt towards the otherness of others. The big thing here are the knots. Because as you start looking into yourself and developing, you actually find things in your own culture that you're not particularly proud of or comfortable with. And those are your knots. And those are the things that you probably have to work on the most in order to be able to collaborate and understand others and understanding whether you can actually adapt them and move on from them or they're just an integral part of you. And you just have them in mind. You keep them. You keep them. Some of the things that I figured out about myself like a while back were the things I'm uncomfortable about is like I'm not really comfortable with where I'm in life, not because I'm not happy at where I'm in life, but because I've been culturally programmed to be doing an exactly different, like a really different thing at this stage. You know, babies, family, what my purpose in life is shouldn't be this. I'm really uncomfortable with that, even though rationally, rationally, I don't have an issue with where I am. I am happy. But inside, it struggles. So it's work every day. And cultural intelligence is developed by having the courage to actually ask the uncomfortable questions and dig into those things that you feel deeply uncomfortable about. Have the willingness to admit what your knots are and either move past them or acknowledge them. The paradox is you can only develop cultural intelligence if people will share with you and they will only share with you if they think you have enough cultural intelligence to understand and be willing to listen. So be willing to listen. Turns out, Zay's advice on point, people just want somebody to listen to them. Petja, you said, be genuinely interested in other human beings and their experiences and the otherness doesn't have to be otherness. It can be what's interesting about a person. Be aware of your knots. Learn to make a fool of yourself. It's useful in general from someone very particular and tied up. Recognize and set up the cultural intelligence as well when you recognize it because staying silent is not going to help as well. Somebody recently told me most people, Petja, listen to reply. I try to listen to understand and it's stuck with me and I think that that's the core. When you listen, listen to try to understand. You might not understand, but at least you will learn because a lot of people think about cultural intelligence as knowing a lot about others and what it actually is is knowing your own culture starting to decipher that. Reverse engineering yourself a little bit so that you can react in certain situations. Spend the 10 seconds, not carry any frustration or anger or misunderstanding or confusion with you more than you have to because not everything is resolved in 10 seconds. Let's be honest. So how over time am I? 44 minutes almost. So what did I do about being on time? Because I quickly realized that I was pissing off more people than just Jen. So I set up my notifications to ping me a minute before a call and I would go on the call immediately be the first one in regardless of what I was doing while I was waiting for everybody to get in because the thing was that I quickly realized being on time is in my flex. I don't care about that. I don't really mind. It's my cute little work from when I was a kid. It's something that I think I can get away with but it's in other people's core and that's important. And it's a little thing that I can do to change. And I'll be honest. This is a very, very easy and straightforward kind of flex example to be giving. There are things that are going to take more than just changing a notification setting for you to kind of get over. But it works. Because being on time is in a lot of my colleagues' core. And I may be late every now and again but not as often as I was. And now, before I get over time because I'm in the US I'm going to say thank you. The slides from this talk are on my speaker deck and on the Human Made blog there is a summary of this talk that has some resources from the material that I mentioned on the talk if you're interested in learning more or reading more. So yeah, do we have time for questions at all? Two minutes? Okay. Yeah, I think there's a question. Thank you so much. It was a really great issue. Thank you. My question was a little bit about I know that there's a lot of talk about toxic work cultures in general. So we do have a lot of responsibility as leaders to ensure that our culture in the office is good for everyone. But you also mentioned that there are certain things for example deciding that you might want to set up as your company's culture to begin with before you start onboarding other people and adjusting for their cultural specifics. So is that the same for many things? Or is it different in your opinion for the different areas? I think it's definitely different and it helps to have somebody very culturally aware in the company to be able to kind of go through and implement these things even on regional levels. And it's okay for a company culture to start from one spot and then evolve. What's important is to not try and box people into a culture that was developed from the one global cluster. It's still fine to set up ground rules but it will take you longer to onboard certain people towards that and you have to have the patience and give them the time to adapt and not expect the same results from people from different cultures necessarily when they're culturally sensitive issues because it's like asking a person who can swim and who cannot swim to swim at the same time when they're asked or they will drown where the other might not really have a big issue or a big difficulty with that. So yeah, it's worth looking at the eight scales, figuring out what are the core values of a company and the same thing as looking into yourself. What is your company's culture and what are the core values? Which cultural clusters are they best tuned into? Do some of them need more attention and where are the parts of your onboarding process that need tweaking based on where the people are? Does this answer your question? Okay, anybody else? There's a question over there. Thanks for a great talk. I myself a little bit here. I worked in software global in the mid... Sorry, the mic is kind of cutting off so I'm not sure. I started working in globalization of software in the mid-90s and working with teams and managing people to make their software ready for global markets. And what you presented today was actually the bigger problem in terms of getting software ready for global markets is the different cultural aspects. And this is a great presentation of kind of capturing that problem. The software side in some ways was the easy part and getting people on board to make sure that the software developed and worked in Japan versus America was technically fine but the subtleties of all the cultural differences. And I've been in this area for some large number of years now and I still find it frustrating that we're still having to have people like you give these talks because we haven't yet as a community really fully embraced what you said. And I'm wondering if working with your clients, whether or not you're seeing improvement in this area. Definitely. We are very... Well, the thing is when you're doing business, the shift and the adaptability of like how your employees kind of see things adapt as the client needs to adapt. So we adapt to our clients better, towards our clients better than we adapt towards our people. This is one of the big things that we have to kind of change I think as an industry, because like we are very ready to accept our client's cultural differences and adapt towards them. Maybe not necessarily ready all the time, but like at least we're very quickly become aware of them and try and adapt, and we're way slower adapting towards like the people that are actually working for our companies. So yes, I see a lot of adaptability towards business relationships. I think it would be great to see more adaptability towards like the people working in companies as well, because that serves both. Does this answer your question? Thank you. All right. There are two more questions over there. Do we have time for them or if not, I can also absolutely, I'd love to kind of have conversations in the hallways. So please find me. You know, I will be around all day today and not stressed anymore. Thank you.