 east of us and um good morning still if anybody's from Alaska or Hawaii I don't know so um you're still in the morning so welcome to beginning to open up ideas for colleges early in their OER journey and you know you can start recording now thank you um so just so you know this is a panel of uh people from all over the United States and we're all on a different part of our journey and we realize that some people new to OER may not feel like they have the resources or may not know how to start things and sometimes when you're listening to Sumi or California or open Oregon you may feel a little overwhelmed and so we're here to share with you um our little parts of our journey and hopefully when you leave here you'll either have a new idea for your campus or you also connect with one of us or somebody else here that you can then collaborate with on your journey um so I just want to let you know that we have all sorts of people here because you're going to realize a lot of us wear different hats so we have a librarian we have a faculty member we have an instructional designer a dean an OER coordinator and a director of teaching and learning so there's lots of different people here but before we start I just want to thank Una and Liz from CCC OER that they are our background people that are helping to support us and kind of make this all happen and hopefully if you're not involved with CCC OER that um you may want to look it up and check it out and that's at cccoer.org and we'll give you that information also at the end of this presentation um so right now we're first going to introduce ourselves there we go and so um here's the panel and so we're just going to say where we're from and a little bit about our institution and maybe how long that we've been in OER and that's where we'll start so Susan do you want to start? I'm Susan Bradley I'm dean of Humanities Social and Behavioral Sciences at Butler Community College we're a 97-year-old institution of about 5,500 FTE located in the rural Great Plains region just east of Wichita, Kansas. I've been at Butler for 25 years and in OER about two and a half not long and Kelly? Sure I'm Kelly Carpenter I'm from Lakeshaw Technical College I am the library manager there we are a small rural technical college that's right along Lake Michigan we're about an hour from Milwaukee and an hour from Green Bay and we serve about 10,000 students but that actually only equals about 1700 FTE because a lot of ours are workforce training, apprenticeships, ABE, adult basic education so we have a very small pocket that are actually degree-seeking which is what our OER is focused on but we are one of the 16 technical colleges in Wisconsin but we do not have statewide OER direction. I've been at LTC for about 10 years and we've been doing OER for about two. Great thank you Todd. Hi my name is Todd Ellis I'm the director of teaching and learning at Grayson College we are a small college north of Dallas Texas about 4,500 FTE our demographic is about half rural half suburban and over 51 percent of our students qualify for lower income. Grayson College has been involved in OER kind of a from a bottom up perspective for about four years and I've been in my position here for two years and I've been involved in OER for two years. Thank you. Lori that. Hey I'm Lori Beth Larson I'm here in Central Lakes College in central Minnesota we have about 5,000 students a pretty small college we've been doing OER since about 2014. I am the lead faculty and we have a steering committee with a librarian and a dean and other faculty so we're pretty we work from the ground up as well we have a z degree and about 38 faculty which is about a third of our faculty have participated in OER today. Awesome and I'm leading the panel and my name is Paul Lake-Nevige and I'm from the College of Southern Nevada in Las Vegas. I'm the urban one we have about 35,000 students 30 percent white about 33 percent Hispanic 10 percent African-American 10 percent Asian so we kind of are the melting pot of everybody here. I've been here almost three years and we've been kind of officially doing OER for about a year and it was also organic from the ground up so we have a task force that has librarians faculty and people from learning that are on the task force that are helping out with this. So as everybody sees we have a wide variety of different institutions and people in different capacities so what we're going to do is we're going to start out with the Paula. Paula, one second. I think you're missing Christina. Oh is she here? Yeah I'm sorry. I didn't see you on I didn't see you on my little thing either so I apologize. No problem. I'm Christina Chonalin the Montana Statewide OER coordinator. And I've been working with OER for over 10 years in some capacity whether teaching with it or starting campus initiatives. The Montana OER program is in its first year so not even a whole year in this program and the campuses that I serve range from the larger schools with about 17,000 FT to tiny tribal colleges with about 40 FT so I'm helping all of those campuses get their individual OER initiatives set up and they all have very unique ranges of student needs and resources and questions. So yeah now she's kind of the state representative and I'm sorry. So that's another whole aspect to think about too is as opposed to just individual college also on a state perspective so thank you for joining us Christina and welcome. So now we're gonna talk a little bit more about some different questions so we've already kind of done one about how many years we're doing and what we're doing so if anybody would like to share an accomplishment from the past year to help people out that are just starting out what are some things that have happened that in a year that you could possibly do and I'm gonna open up to anybody so. I don't mind going. Okay thank you Todd. We had several things that were accomplishments from our perspective of being fairly new and being small but I think probably the most important was our OER micro grants and we only had three the first year but it moved our movement from a sort of organic bottom-up people doing it out of goodness of their hearts to officially recognizing people doing this work and willing to pay them for it so that was a big step for us. Thank you. And I want to say that for new people that definitely if you have the opportunity to either get a grant or to figure out how to get some money but that's a great idea so I just want to reiterate for new people that down the line you may want to be thinking about that. I can go next so I think for us we had a top-down approach from the beginning. I actually had a president who came from the Louisiana community and technical college system so he came with a really good understanding of our textbook affordability issues and he basically got a group of us together in a room and said he was going to fully fund any early adapting faculty as long as they converted their textbook which was a publisher paid textbook into a course that had no cost to students so they could kind of point blank do whatever they wanted and now the people in the room we were supposed to build it so I think what helped us is we got on you know some kind of faculty senate or faculty development day and we were able to present a three-hour textbook affordability session to all full-time faculty and they were required to attend and at that meeting we showed them an entire list from our bookstore of each required book and how much it cost and then we did a breakdown of cost for course materials by program and let me tell you that was super eye-opening for some of our faculty because you know in technical college they've heard enough finding course content that covers their their curriculum and at a reading level that they needed that they sometimes forgot to look at cost and they were fighting that some of their their textbooks cost more than it was for the course for the for the student to pay for the course at a technical college level so that was really eye-opening and very scary to present but that helped so many people if not changed to an OER book changed to a cheaper book so that was something that we did that was super helpful if you're starting out if you can get in front of a big group of faculty thank you and can you remind us was it like at a convocation day or something special day it was required um all faculty we call it all faculty development day okay same thing yep yep awesome so that's another great idea for people that are new to this on to take advantage of those days when all faculty are together to see if you can do a workshop or a presentation at that thank you what happened at our institution is that ambitious young faculty member wonderful young woman came to me and said I'd love to write an OER for college composition one and two may I do that and my answer was yes but then of course we had to figure out how and that led to our use of an online template uh for policy and procedure composition it's uh originated with tidewater community college in bc open and is available through human learning but it essentially helped us formulate our faculty compensation scheme and um our relation to our college mission and our purpose and some definitions and some technical formats and all sorts of considerations that we might not have thought through initially they both helped with the initial big project and they helped us are helping us replicate uh OERs in other disciplines now and thank you Susan for sharing that um the great thing about OER is if they put creative comments on it like we can share and and reuse and as Susan said she found some things from other institutions so don't be afraid if you're new to this to look around for what other people have already done and have opened for you to use so thank you for sharing that um anything from Christina or Lori that yeah I can I can uh say a few things uh we have um like I think I already said we have about 38 faculty who have um participated in creating OER we're we're also um working to get some of our OER published and that's what we're doing this year um and we have um an open Dora which is the Minnesota State Community and Technical Colleges repository that is open so we're trying to get a few more of our our OER published on that we also um are following um we're also looking into student OER specialists and uh David Dwork from Paradise Valley um has shared his information and Paula went to the their recent um presentation now in Arizona and so we're um we're working to get Minnesota State Grant I saw a question in the chat window um and we've been most of our efforts have been funded over the last five and a half years from state uh grants we have an innovations grant that we've applied for a bunch of those so that's kind of where we're getting some of our money and we're getting a little money from the college now as they see how important it is and useful great so again um you're trying to tap into a statewide thing so you should check to see if other places in your state are doing things um I know here we're trying to our library is also trying to kind of create something for all our faculty here so that's another place you may want to tap in for you people and help more this thing are your librarians so so one accomplishment that we had in Montana that um I was pretty excited about um I did have some grant funding to give out it within the first year but more than grant opportunities we offered a lot of professional development opportunities and um one of my grantees talked her entire department into taking some professional development training through the program and they decided to remake after the summer our first three months in this program they decided to do their entire degree as a ZTC degree and so they're doing that department-wide huge huge win for the first few months of the program um we also have a lot of um are encouraging a lot of collaborative work with faculty outside of their institution and so one of the things that I'm really excited about is uh faculty who are developing OER content with um their high school colleagues who are teaching dual credit uh and obviously fund those um because they work for the high schools but it was really an impressive move to get all the high school dual credit courses onto the same curriculum and using OER so those are some really good natural partners to your local high schools as well and I would say for um CSN that um I would say we moved the needle just a little bit and to me to have one more or two more faculty um adopt an open textbook you know is an accomplishment and I think our first year was very much awareness so we were doing a lot of um during our convocations or during the open end we tried to just do where what's OER what's open textbook you know what is this all about so that's really what we did our first two semesters and now we're kind of moving forward to try to help um departments identify what are some of these textbooks so we're trying to do the adopt um so there's three things you can adopt you can adapt where you can take something and maybe switch it up with other things or you can create and we're really trying to not go to create to maybe start with adopt that you already have a textbook and why don't we choose that one over uh paid publisher textbook so so Luna are there some questions yes you did have some questions I think we answered Rumiyaana's question about grants um we and she can re-ask that if she needs more information but Jane Ishibashi also asked about where um so how are faculty getting training and support on accessibility for the disabled and attribution questions and then she asked where did the funding for the professional development come was it from equity funding administration support etc so I I'll just talk about accessibility I would encourage you to team up if you have a disability resource center or some group already on campus that you can or if you have an e-learning instructional technologist instructional designers or something that they can help along with accessibility because that's my another hat I have as an instructional designer OER accessibility and so um that's what I was going to say to those people about accessibility is that you may want to partner with some other people already on campus that know that I even pulled our accessibility accommodations manager into our task force so that they could hear all the OER stuff so that we made sure we had that person at the table they brought a lot of insights that we maybe didn't always think about so that was helpful here our instructional designer is also on our steering committee so we have a librarian and a dean and a bunch of faculty and our instructional designers on there and she's she's catching up and learning a lot about um uh universal design principles we have created an OER development process that's part of a faculty development workshop or two in the area and accessibility is part of that workshop in that process as for funding there were no funds available when we started I was able to convince our academic vice president to loan initial OER development money out of her program development fund which we eventually paid back out of a modest charge of fee that we are passing on to students so in short time the project paid for itself so to to build on what Susan said for funding your administration is a good place to start but areas on campus that I've seen do really good funding help with this kind of work is also your foundation office we tend to think of that as student scholarships but they're really happy to promote projects that help students and then going to your student government or student activities organizations they have their own um pools of money and they have done some really great work uh in funding and laying community college and organists um one that stands out in my mind but that fund faculty incentives um or bring in speakers for faculty professional development around OER your state board of ed is also a really great area to go to um if you're just a little at one school you could actually be the catalyst to get some state funding going um in Montana I know it was one school approaching the state and that became a statewide initiative so don't don't rule out the higher ups outside of your school as well in Kansas we're having a state we are showcased on March 26th students are presenting posters about their program day from their different process to staff members of our board of regents and too many state just like an effort to get a state funding mechanism started yeah and that sounds super Susan I wanted to add just one thing Paula because one thing I've seen is sometimes there are other initiatives other grant programs out there that are not specifically they don't say OER on them and I think of ones around equity and um um sorry what is it um culturally sensitive materials you will see those will come out from different organizations sometimes even from the department of ed um and um or it could be about improving learning I see a lot of those in the STEM where OER is a natural because of the fact that you can modify things customize you can integrate all of these different pedagogical devices into it so don't neglect to look at those grants too as potential opportunities to bring OER in and that's actually we are using a STEM grant from the state that's kind of how we're we're using into it so like you said it wasn't necessarily OER but it was a STEM grant from the state the institution that I came from in Oregon um we were using title three grant funds for OER those funds were directly um written into equity diversity and inclusion and we were able to use OER as a way to meet that goal and I I wanted to tag on that what I've used is cccoer.org has research and definitely look at the research because you should back up your asking for money with research um because right now I'm in the process of trying to ask administration for money going oh it's shown that if you give faculty some money for their work they're more likely to try something and so I would like to try this in their research based on that and also pedagogical research um success rates all of that so I just want to let people know that there's a lot of research out there and you can find a lot of that at this cccoer.org and that can help you get it with asking for money did we get all the questions now Luna yes Paul I think I think we did for now thank you okay awesome no thank you for checking this out so um now we're going to share the opposite like what's one thing we wish we could do over because we'd like to share with you some things so that you may not have to do it so anybody want to start that one I'll start that one okay um I keep rethinking this one and how I conceptualize it uh I guess it's in the context for me of our initial outreach my initial outreach was to faculty uh especially given that there had been like I said a kind of an organic movement a couple years before I'd been here there was sort of a trajectory of outreach to faculty so I kind of continued with that but what I should have done which is what I'm doing now is make sure there's an outreach to students and that students know and make that connection that OER for a lower income student yeah we know the OER means the five Rs but to a lower income new student OER means free and I need to make sure I'm reaching out to students even the new ones that come in as they come in every eight weeks here OER means free how do they know that how do they ask that because I feel like we're at a plateau where all the teachers who would or could do OER have and the other ones aren't really moving forward there's kind of a canned content question where a lot of faculty really likes engage and things like that and kind of seem to be the teacher for you and so I feel like there's a little bit of a stalemate and I'm reaching out more to students now thank you I totally agree because that's one of my things was try to almost align on student and faculty together on this movement of what this is all about so thank you I can second that so that is one thing that we've learned after communicating with the faculty first and having that big group of early adopters but then going to your SGA when we went last year I don't think there was a single student in the room who knew what we are or even knew what their faculty were doing to reduce the cost so once we kind of explain you know here's what this means here's what this means when you see it in your course they were much more interested in it and then even coming back I came back this year a few weeks ago and kind of did a follow-up for new students and to see you know did did interest and knowledge increase and they were like experts like they knew it our SGA is actually taking their going to the legislatures with an OER clause that they want to get funding for faculty at a state level so I mean they have power I think that was one thing that we did not capitalize on as much as we could have and now I see it happening statewide so that is definitely I'll piggyback on Todd work with the students in SGA and get them as educated as possible because their voice really matters especially at a community and technical college level thank you yeah I would say that if we did anything we made our task too difficult or too hard at the outset because that's who we are educators we love those challenges but if an institution or a team or a committee can cut out the acronyms the education needs the technical terms as much as possible and speak in terms of the digital revolution and the restructuring of the publishing industry and the potential to give students much more access to quality education materials at a lower price than before those are all really strong selling points that make a big difference I think the thing that surprised me that I wish I would have done earlier is ask in the CCC OER community or just people connections making connections somebody has a good idea it says sharing community which is which I don't know I think I think there's been maybe a trend over the last or at least when I started 20 years ago to hold on to everything you have very tightly and so I think I wish I would have asked more questions I had some good ideas but I I wasn't sure where to go or what to do but getting on a CCC OER website the listserv is amazing and like case in point David Dwork he was willing to zoom in a meeting with me and give me everything he had and then Paula went to the um the presentation and she sent me stuff so yeah asking questions people like to share in this community so one thing that um I tell every campus that I work with is to yes you need to educate with the word out there but do what you can to get all of the stakeholders at the table and so students your bookstore your faculty your admin your instructional design or accessibility people because your any any initiative you do if you can get even half of those people together will grow and you'll have more people understanding what's happening a lot of times we tend to do very siloed work in higher ed and we don't know the great things that everyone's doing so um really approach it uh as a as an entire institution not just reaching out to your faculty um another thing and Todd mentioned this um earlier this week is to champion and really praise the people who are already doing OER work the faculty member who's been silently doing it on their own when you find out um make them champions and and let let the whole campus community know what great work they've done uh that's really important uh and celebrate all of your milestones and um the other thing and and I'm gonna piggyback off what Lori best said it is a great open community and you will find that you have faculty and administrators and students ready to engage at a variety of levels this might be very new and it might be something they've known about for a while and they want to jump in at a deeper level so we don't always have the infrastructure to provide when we're starting a new initiative so use the community it is a very giving community if I have a faculty who wants to you know develop a tool for some course that is way beyond my knowledge or skill level um that's not that's not unsurmountable um it's a matter of reaching out to other institutions that do OER work and connect those faculty they will build off of each other so you don't have to provide everything but be willing to engage at layers of where people are interested and where their knowledge base is those would be my top bits of advice to getting started and things that I learned the hard way um my first go ram so um the thing that I'm gonna share I don't know if I would do it over but I just want to prepare you that it may happen and I think things evolve is what your definition is at your community college at your college at your institution so we started out saying OER and then we realized well there's a lot of people that are doing a no cost because there's a lot of people that are actually using um stuff from the library or the library will actually have an e-book that 35 people can use and so that's a no cost for students which is something that we're kind of looking at so it's not truly OER but it's helping a student because we know here especially in the urban area that money is a big problem of buying the books and then there's also the low cost so when I went to the um open ed the national level I kind of sat there and so I'm going to share this with you that um I'm okay with the low cost because if I can get a faculty member to move over to a different system that may only cost $20 or $25 for a student then $125 that that's okay but there are some people um that may want to just be purists and say it's only OER so I just want to share with you that you're going to kind of figure this out around your own campus so we as a group decided the no cost low cost with some of our definition the no cost including OER or including um stuff from the library and that it's okay to move the faculty member who's really scared to go away from Pearson publishing stuff to move it over to Newton or Lumen learning or other platforms that are using open textbooks along with our platforms so I just wanted to share that with you it's not something I would do over but you're going to it's almost like an evolution going oh we may want to rename this so just to warn you it may you may rename it in the middle of a year later so that's all that I was going to share with you. Um Luna any new questions? Yeah we had a question from Rumiana another question and a very good one um so she asked what kind of communication systems do you have in place to share who is using what OER and I believe she meant on on her campus um I'm a single librarian I know some faculty who use OER but I would like to have a way to know which OER are used and which courses and to get faculty to share information instead of the silo approach um and I sent her a link to a statewide site that I think many of you are aware of which is the openoregon.org site where all Oregon faculty who participate in that have who participate in OER have shared their information about what resources they're using um and um I Christina may actually have more information about that because I know she used to work within that system. In that um the open organ resources a fabulous um list I don't think that it's totally inclusive of everyone who's doing OER because it's voluntary to um submit but all that started out with uh in the very early days was a Google form and so in Montana I've started a very similar thing um there's a Google form and I ask each you know the administrators send it out or the library director sends it out or faculty department chairs send it out um asking faculty to sign up so that you have a better list um and in that way I was able to get more information about faculty who were already using OER that I hadn't worked with um or you know their campus library and hadn't worked with so yeah just saying that and and even um I know there was a college in Oregon who were giving out little like $5 Starbucks gift cards to faculty who would report their OER usage because and the students did that they wanted to know like how do we thank you we want to know who's doing it so if you're doing in a light of not one more step that we you're forcing you to do but hey we want to celebrate what you're doing and share out your good work um how you approach it is really important and that's very much how Amy's approach creating her list is how can we praise the work you're doing um I'll say two for us we I worked with tons of people in instruction and I actually got our two definitions um like Paula said we completely revamped we have an OER definition and we created a zero textbook cost definition and we got those two put on our course development form so all new faculty and again this took two years to get done um so every time a faculty member changes their curriculum they can check if they're doing ZTC or if they're doing OER and that sends me an email letting me know which class they're changing and then I added to a homegrown excel sheet but at least I can keep track and I can click run out to our bookstore website and see what book they're currently using so I can get the cost before they change it in the bookstore and say no textbook required so that took a lot of time and communication so I mean if you could make that happen it's been really slick uh we're only like a month in to me getting the emails but I've already gotten like five emails so I'm very excited I can share what um we're in the middle of doing so I actually have a bookstore that's very open like hey Paula I'll share with you like who doesn't have books like uh for anything and then I can look in Canvas to kind of see oh they're using an open textbook or they're using uh library stuff it is a little bit time consuming but what we're planning on doing is they're going to be giving us the list before um courses are opened and so we're hoping to create a list with a little waiver going faculty may change their section but what we're doing is we're just creating a list and putting it on our OER website so students could go there and we're going to advertise through the student senate and other means that I'm starting with so that's kind of where we're starting and I'm not sure if that was the question is that's how we're trying to share with students what are the ones we're not allowed to put it in our system because it's a statewide system and we have to like get okay through a lot of other people so we're starting with like a PDF on our website of a list of things so that's how I was going to answer that question on listing what is open for students or no cost or low cost so we had we had a PDF on our website for a while as well which was very time consuming and very frustrating to develop but we're part of a Minnesota state is now piloting a program to have OER searchable in courses so I think that'll incentivize incentivize a faculty to make sure that their course actually has a no cost or a zero cost and there's a variety of things you can choose so that when students are searching they can search for that we're part of a pilot stay tuned I'm not exactly sure how it'll go but that's what that's what we're trying right now are we are we doing future plans not yet but if you wanted to start we can oh I thought I was hearing future plans now we were just talking about the question well I guess the question was taken many different ways but it was kind of like telling people how marketing how things are that they're open certain courses open right but do you want to start so what are your future plans Todd three future plans to make them short our math none of our math department uses OER whereas for example all of our history and government does and seems like a low hanging fruit to me so I created a algebra course copy the whole course from canvas commons put in open stacks textbook matched module chapter for chapter module for module so I'm basically showing some math teachers how they could use OER trying trying to open that up a little bit trying to get the math department to to suggest it get him interested without making it seem like you know we need you to do this or you have to do this but just growing interest in the math department to increasing student awareness like I said before just reaching out meeting with the SGA and also because I get new students all the time canvas announcements that go out to all students every semester saying here's what the OERs are here's the five Rs one of them means free just not only getting students aware of what they are but we're thinking up how do we get students to request OERs and me and a few others are working on that right now one is getting student awareness of what they are and two is telling students what to do about that awareness for helping the college move forward in places where maybe we're a little bit stagnated on things that we could move forward on and then lastly we're identifying an OER degree pathway in our general studies we think really about five courses if we could get it we could have a general studies pathway so that's that's the plan for now awesome anybody else want to share a future I can go ahead I was going to say I you know it's funny we're all kind of at these different levels and we all tackle things differently but I would love to work on policy so we have this whole initiative but we don't we don't have any policy to set so that's my kind of my next thing is we need to get some things in writing that our college is going to agree on and that this is this isn't going away so I think that's always a fear of we start all these initiatives and projects and then you know it kind of fizzles out and then it dies and I don't want that to happen so that's a goal for me to help get policy in place and kind of future-proof it you know where is the money going to come from so I think those are all some big things that we're looking at the state of Wisconsin put out a scale of adoption assessment which is really helpful I actually got a group of people together last week to go through that and it it really helped us pinpoint some other things that we need to work on and one of them is we need to figure out how to label it in our student system before students register for the class so that's one thing that Wisconsin does not have and I am going to kind of look at some states that have got this I don't think anyone has it figured out but I think that's the students have to know before they sign up that they're getting you know the course the course materials free so somehow figuring out how to label I think everyone's kind of working through what how does that look and how do we get students more aware before they sign up for the course so those are some things that we're trying to tackle this coming year so Christina did you want to share oh I yeah I was going to talk about the professional development opportunities for faculty so one thing that I learned was that faculty who are interested in adopting and will just blindly adopt a textbook a good percentage of them go back to their publisher text after a few years and that is because they don't have the instructional design or really the knowledge to develop and build their textbook for their students which is the potential so I launched instructional design online course for faculty this year and we had such good success with it that we're going to offer that every semester so three times a year and open it up to the public and that is really a big goal to have everyone who's using OER to go through that or a similar type of course they have that basics so they are not floundering after a while or deciding they hate it and they're going to go back to a different resource and the other thing that is for Montana for the next year is really building up those cross institutional partnerships so one of those is kind of reaching out to the smaller getting technical and community colleges connected with faculty at the larger universities that might have more resources as well as tribal colleges we have seven tribal colleges in our state who have the biggest need and the least amount of resources so how do we connect what other faculty are doing with and how can faculty support each other with projects on campuses that don't have as many resources so those cross institutional connections are a big goal for the next year. Susan do you have anything that you guys are thinking about? Yes well I don't know if I've already mentioned that the State of Kansas is having a state OER conference next September for Hays State University and we'll be bringing in a keynote speaker from the outside as well as training faculty and administrators from higher grad across the state and our hope is that this conference will continue and become key to the spread of the movement across the state. Awesome and for me I think our goals is we want to go to present at departments and share some open textbooks with departments and start with saying when you're choosing your new textbook you also include an open textbook as something that you're looking at because we're kind of the organic you know faculty to faculty we're thinking that may be a way to get more faculty to look at OER and to think about it what we'd like to do is we would like to do more of our gen edge to be all OER as opposed to the D degree because that can touch like every student that comes here and so that's what we're aiming for and then I think my other thing for the next year is what a lot of us are trying to do is trying to get more students involved and chatting with them and seeing how they can get involved. So Luna are there any more questions? Sorry oh no that's okay yes you're doing a great job helping out with links and all that so thank you and other folks too as well so thanks to everyone who's participating. So we had another question around the bookstore and how do you regulate relationships with the bookstore and Rumiana is concerned that it might affect the bookstore margins and is that you know how can she be prepared for that? Well I'm just gonna share so I don't we're with Follitts and the bookstore came to my first task force and said how can we help you? So I'm like well so I I guess my relationship with them is we're looking at that faculty have choice and so if they're choosing OER or not that's part of our bookstores though I that's all I'm gonna say I haven't heard anything about margins and all that. And I know we we also have Follitt and that did come up we don't have as good a relationship with our bookstore rep then. We have had a pretty rocky relationship when OER where that goes so I think we try to tread lightly but we did have that conversation that yes bookstore margin is going to go down as a college are we okay with that like we had to take that to the president because so for some colleges that is a big revenue maker and we had we had to acknowledge it and they were okay with it they will find revenue other places so that is a conversation I think you do have to have if you depend on that margin and I didn't even I didn't know how big of a margin that is for some colleges so it definitely has gone down as we have had more adoptions and your college has to acknowledge it and be okay with it and kind of strategize what will they do different without that money or what were they doing with the money if it for us it was going to foundation so that's where we talked with foundation and said is there a different pool of money that we could use for student scholarships so that they don't notice anything different but the college is picking that up instead of the revenue from the bookstore. And that's why I think it's really important to have bookstore managers or leadership at the table when you start these conversations and you say hey we're working on this so that they prep I've had books or managers who were so excited to have textbooks because they had more space to sell this swag and things that they make more money on than they do textbooks I've had others who were really opposed so having them at the table and making sure that they know that they're a part of the conversation is important but Una mentioned earlier that it's important to go in with research and I would suggest that NACS the National Association of College Stores which most campus bookstores are a part of is a great resource they just published a paper on publishing trends and it included a bunch of information for OER but the national organization is really in support of OER and has identified some areas that bookstores can make changes and different things they can do to help keep bookstores in the OER conversation whether that's print on demand or things like that so there's a lot of great research statistics and tools on the NAACS site. One thing that's come up in our discussions at Butler has been the idea that perhaps somewhere down the road we need to have not a bookstore manager we have an independent store we're wonderful a long-time manager but move from that position to something like an instructional materials and supplies manager or a position in which an able person could help faculty and students create and select and use materials along an entire spectrum of possibility in other words it would be a more comprehensive position. Yeah we have a steering OER steering committee and the bookstore manager was on our steering committee as well and that I mean a few conversations a little easier but again it's not a it's not a very comfortable position. I'll second what Susan just said you know we're considering that same type of evolution of like instructional resources and I see on there Sydney from Nicolay kind of has that similar role that's more comprehensive and I feel like that is something that more colleges may want to look at what would that look like at your institution. I just wanted to add one thing this is Una again I put a link in the chat window from campus technology but it was covering a report that was released about two weeks ago from achieving the dream from their OER degree initiative which was launched at 38 colleges and 13 states and they had 11 research colleges that they did some very in-depth research with and one of them was how did it impact the bookstore when these colleges developed these full-degree pathways and in fact they found that the effect was very small. Bookstores are not making as much in general from the sales of books as they did in the past students are buying them elsewhere sometimes not buying them and it was it was under two digits so it was in the single digit effect so it was actually very small so I would recommend you read that research it was really quite interesting I can't remember the exact percentage right now but it was very interesting research on cost effects of OER at institutions so it was very unique the research they did it wasn't strictly limited to student savings and outcomes but also looked at the institutional effects and actually bring up a good point and the research is showing that about 40 percent of students don't even buy a textbook so the bookstore is already losing money because the students can't even afford to buy the textbook and so again we're looking at it more from a student's success and access and equity that all students should have a book and not only certain students have the book and so so maybe that's why our bookstore is not too worried about it I I don't know because maybe they're already seeing that and I also think the publishers the last 15 years have been figuring or trying to figure out the new things with all the technology as we see the evolution so who knows what the next evolution of publishing pirate a textbook will be so any other questions I did put on this next slide that if you're wanting to contact any of us here's our email so if there's any particular person you want to keep asking questions to or may want to that our institute is kind of like yours that you want to talk more or we're at the same part of the journey that here is our contact information and then the last slide was just making sure that you know about TCCOER and so Una and Liz are both part of that organization so if you're wanting to know more about any of those you have their contact information also so last call for questions we're at about two minutes I just want to thank Una and Liz for always being there and providing so much information and support in the short time that we've been members of this group yeah I'll second that appreciation thank you and that's why I'm putting the plug for any of you who may don't or may have are not involved with TCCOER that we're hoping that you may want to join and so yeah amazing very very helpful very useful friendly I'll third that okay everybody join all right well thank you so much to the panel for taking the time out and I really actually laughed because we did a practice and we learned so much from each other so all of you participants I'm hoping that you're walking away with no one new thing to do one new connection and that you keep on the great awesome work that we're all doing for our students so that's what it's all about so anything else now oh I said thank you Paula for monitoring bye nothing else for me I'm going to put a link about the inclusive access from the student purge group in the chat window but oh awesome I have to find and I encourage people to look there are lots of regional conferences I know Florida's having one New England's having one Michigan's having one I just went from to Arizona so definitely look for regional ones if you can't go to the national and they're gonna be great also so that's my other pitch I'm getting connected all right well thank you I think we can stop recording because I think we are done have a great afternoon