 Welcome, everybody. I should mention we're going to take questions at the end because I can't see the chat box as I give the presentation. So, thank you for for coming virtually. There we go. It's working so for the past, you know, every decade or 2. Major cities in the West coast have earthquakes that are big enough to cause substantial damage and injury. And sometimes even up as many as 50, 60 people have died in these events. And about once a lifetime, we have the truly big quakes like the great San Francisco earthquake of 1906. And yet we still want to live here, right? We still want to be here. And the good news is that we can because there are precautions that we can take that will prevent or at least limit the negative impact of such quakes. There's a problem though. We all know that we're supposed to be taking these precautions, but for a whole bunch of reasons, many people don't take them. Most people don't take them and that's basically asking for trouble. So that's why we're here today. So I'm Matt Springer. As Lori said, I'm a professor at UCSF. And the 1st thing I'll confirm for you is that no, we don't have seismology at UCSF. The reason that I give these talks is because I have a lot of experience from what my own family has gone through in some of the large quakes in California. And I have a good idea of the kinds of problems that can occur and what we can do to minimize them. And I'm sorry, I've got my meeting controls just pop back up. I want to get them out of the way. Okay. I guess that's going to keep happening as more people join. No problem. So without further ado then, let me tell you a bit about what I have experienced in these quakes in the past. So you got some idea of what you might experience. We'll talk about what to do during a quake right after a quake and then spend the rest of the time talking about precautions that you can take now. So, there we go. Let's start with California. And I think that you all recognize California here, even though you don't see the state lines drawn because we have a number of unique and recognizable features, right? We've got the Bay, the Central Valley, the Hills, etc. And what's important to realize is that these unique and recognizable features are caused by seismic activity. We've got earthquake faults running up and down the state. And you can actually see them. If you look closely, look at this satellite view, you can see a giant crack in the ground right there. Hopefully you can see my cursor. And there's another one crack here, crack there. And if you look more closely at the Bay area, you can see that we owe our existence essentially to these earthquake fault systems that you've no doubt heard about. The San Andreas fault, the Hayward fault, Calaveras fault, and the North Bay offshoots. And if you take these lines away, look what happens. This is really cool. Look at the East Bay. You can still see them, right? The East Bay owes its topography to these earthquake faults. What I think is really neat though is that a lot of what we know in the North Bay and the peninsula are indeed the San Andreas fault. So the Tamales Bay that separates Point Reyes from everything else, that is the San Andreas fault. And if you're driving on 280, the Crystal Springs reservoir that you drive by and those lakes, that is the San Andreas fault. And in fact, I had already started giving this talk so a number of years ago now, and I was flying out of San Francisco airport to a conference. And I looked out the window just in time to see this view. We've just left the airport. We're heading towards the ocean. So there's 280. There's the Crystal Springs reservoir and the other lakes, one of which, by the way, is called San Andreas Lake. Interesting. And two things occurred to me as I saw this view. First of all, well, there really is a giant water filled crack running down the peninsula, right? And the other one that occurred to me was that they really need to put a neighborhood right there. You know, I assume that those people know what they're sitting on, but I think that this kind of image gives you a good concept that we live with the effects of earthquakes every day in the Bay Area. And let me just move something out of the way there. Okay, so let's take a look at some of the quakes that I myself have experienced and that you folks have experienced to in the state in the past several decades. In 1971, there was a quake in Silmar, 6.6. For those of you that don't know the LA area, that's the LA Basin, that's the San Fernando Valley. I grew up in the sleepy suburb of Northridge, which no one had ever heard of at the time, but that was of course going to change. And in 1971, I looked about like that. I assume you can tell which of the people in that picture is me, hopefully. And the reason that I like to show this picture is because then you won't think poorly of me when I tell you that in 1971, I was afraid of the dark, but not if I was in my bed, then it was okay. And so I had a habit of if I had to get up in the middle of the night to use the bathroom, I would come back to my room. I would turn the light off, got dark, I would run through the room and dive into my bed and I would land in the bed and the bed would bounce up and down a couple of times when I did that. And one morning in 1971, I did that. I dove into bed, bed bounced up and down, and it didn't stop. Just kept going. So I'm this little kid thinking, why is the bed not stopping? And my mother came to the door and said, Matthew, we're having an earthquake. We have to get under the table. And so my whole family went and got under the kitchen table and waited for it to finish. And we did okay in this quake. We had a couple of things fall off of shelves. We had some cracks in the patio in the back. Not that bad. But then later on that night, or maybe the next night, I'm not sure. Our entire part of the valley was told to evacuate because there were cracks in the nearby Van Norman Dam or suspected cracks and they were worried that the dam was going to burst. And so we had to evacuate and spend a couple of nights, I think, at our cousin's place in the other side of the valley. They gave the all clear. We came back. No harm done, right? Now, not everyone was that fortunate. There were 65 people killed in this quake. There was a lot of damage. So here's some more interesting pictures of the damage that occurred like the freeway interchange north of the valley that collapsed. They rebuilt it bigger and better stronger than before. And this, you know, I'm a professor at UCSF. This is notable for anyone who's involved in hospitals because that is a hospital near the epicenter. That's a whole building. The hospital fell over and we are still experiencing the effects of this event today because as the decades go on, the standards, the seismic standards for hospitals get higher and higher and higher. And so a lot of the hospital construction that you've seen around the San Francisco in the last couple of decades is all due to this. We've got hospitals going up at UCSF main campus, you know, Parnassus Mission Bay, new buildings in San Francisco, general new buildings at the VA. It's all due to this event. Hang on. I keep having a little thing pop up in my screen that's annoying. I keep getting rid of it. So in 1989, as you know, we had our own earthquake, the Loma Prieta quake, 6.9 on the Richter scale, thereabouts, depends who you talk to. And in 1989, here's the epicenter. And at that point, I looked like this. I'm showing you this, not just so I can show you my very cool sweater, but so that you can see how far away I was during this quake. I was down at Stanford. And so I'm pretty far away from the epicenter and San Francisco and Oakland are even farther away. And we all got really shaken up by this quake. It's a lot of damage. So 62 people killed in this quake. Thousands of people injured in this earthquake. This was a pretty surreal experience for me. I was actually walking across the campus. It was late afternoon and I was walking from the music building to the biology building. I was outside and there was no wind that I remember, but suddenly the leaves started rustling in the trees. And then the clock tower started chiming. The bell started chiming. And then the earth, the ground under my feet started moving. You could actually watch this, this thing roll across the landscape. It was incredible. And all the while, the only sound were the bells and the trees. There were not Hollywood sound effects or anything like that. So it was fortunate to be outside, you know, bicyclists were following all over and things like that. And there's a lot of damage at Stanford. They had buildings closed for many, many years, supports under arches and things like that. Here's some more damage. This is downtown Santa Cruz. And so, you know, we think of this as a San Francisco earthquake, but it was really a Santa Cruz earthquake that Santa Cruz right there. Here's downtown Santa Cruz and it took them years to come back from this quake. This, of course, as many people recognize the Cypress structure, it was the highway 80 double-decker freeway in the East Bay in Oakland. The top part collapsed into the bottom part. Most of the people or the largest number of people who died in this quake died here, actually, including a UCSF fan pool of employees. They rebuilt this as a single-story structure in a slightly different place. You certainly know this. Well, I don't know. People who moved to the Bay area in the last decade, maybe they don't. The eastern span of the Bay Bridge used to look like that. And it was double-decker. And the top part fell into the bottom. And they closed it and they realized that it would be cheaper to build a new bridge than to properly retrofit this thing. So they retrofitted the western half. They built that new eastern half that we have and then tore down the old one. Really incredible. And this is a very famous image, this type of image. This is the Marina district in San Francisco. The whole Marina district is landfill. And it did really poorly. And we'll talk about that again in a couple of minutes. But first, 1994, everyone heard about my own hometown, Northridge, had a 6.7. So we're back down here. Now, I wasn't there for the Northridge quake. But my family was very, very much affected. My mother lost her apartment and almost everything that she owned. In fact, a neighbor had to come and get her out because she was stuck. That kicked down the door. The neighbor kicked down her door. My dad spent a long time days cleaning up the mess in his apartment. And I saw a lot of the areas that I recognized from my childhood on the news for various problems, fires, et cetera, et cetera. So I'm very familiar with this quake. Now, in the Northridge quake, we had 51 people killed, several thousand people injured. And let's just pause for a minute because are you getting a deja vu sense? I keep showing similar Richter scale readings, similar numbers of people killed, injured. And the way that I interpret this is that these are the quakes that are small enough that they happen with regularity but large enough that they cause a lot of damage. Okay, so I don't know if we're going to have a 1906 earthquake in our lifetimes, but you can pretty much bet we're going to keep having these. And that's one of the points, the bottom lines from this talk is that you have to assume that these things are going to happen and you need to be prepared for it. So let's see, here's more damage, more damage photos. Remember that freeway interchange north of the valley that fell down in 1971. Silmar quake, it fell down again. I'm sure they weren't expecting that, but it did. So we keep learning along the same lines. Well, here's the Northridge Fashion Center. That's Bullock's department store at the Northridge Mall where I used to hang out as a teenager on Saturday afternoons. This was really surprising to people. This is Cal State Northridge. It's a parking structure. That was not a legacy old building. They had just put that up a year or two before the quake. And I'm sure they didn't think that this could happen and yet it did. So we really do keep learning about how to build things as more and more quakes occur. And of personal significance, this is the Northridge Meadows apartment. This is like a poster child for this quake because that building is a three-story building. It used to be the same height as its neighbor. That's the third story. That's the second story. It all collapsed down on the first floor, which was a parking garage. And it's these so-called soft story construction buildings that you must have heard that term many times where the first floor doesn't have nearly as much structural integrity. It's parking, it's surefront, storefront, things like that that are especially at risk in earthquakes. And if you kind of think for a minute that maybe half the buildings in San Francisco fit that description, right? So you can see we have a problem. The reason that I say that this is personal significance is that I told you that my mother lost her apartment in this Northridge quake, but she was fortunate because when she moved out of the home where I grew up, she almost moved into this one and decided not to move elsewhere. She would have been in the first floor unit, so we're glad that she didn't. And anyway, I'm showing you a lot of scary photos. And the last thing I want to do is to make you freak out and jump up and run to the airport and move to the east coast of the west, you know, the east coast of the Midwest, where they also have earthquakes, by the way. What I'm trying to do here is if you're not scared of earthquakes at all, I want to scare you a little bit, okay? I admit it. If you are scared of earthquakes, I want to reassure you because most of the problems in earthquakes are preventable. And this is not what normally happens. I'm clearly showing you the most dramatic photos that I can find, right? Most of the damage that occurred in all of these quakes wasn't this. It was things falling over, things falling down, things flying through the air, the sort of thing that you can prevent against. And that's why you're here today. And I also want to say for legal reasons, if no other, that these precautions we're going to talk about, kind of like a seat belt, they drastically reduce the chances that you will have a problem, but they don't guarantee that you will not have a problem. So I think you can see why I need to put that disclaimer in. So let's summarize. I should mention for people who have joined late, if you're putting things into chat or questions, I can't see them as I'm in full screen presentation mode. So at the end of the talk, we're going to take questions just so people know. So to summarize what you've seen so far in two words, quakes happen. They always have, they always will. We just went through, we got the 6.6 in 1971 down south, 1989, we had 6.9 up here, 1994, 6.7. In 2001, Seattle had a similar quake. They're capable of much larger quakes than we are, but that was a similar story to ours, similar size, similar damage and injury. And in case you're curious for context, the great San Francisco earthquake of 1906 is thought to have been about an eight. The vector scale is a log scale. So you go up one, it's 10 times worse. It's a little bit of all for simplification, but that's a good way to think of it. And for further context, if you've been around for the last few, you know, a couple of decades, we've had a lot of little baby quakes. These little things that, you know, you wake up, you feel something you hop on the computer or your Facebook is a earthquake and then you go back to sleep, right. These little tiny things that get noticed, they keep on happening and I'm pausing this in 2011 because what was really interesting at this point is you could look at this and look at all these epicenters. You can see they're forming a line, right, and these are forming a line, and you should recognize those lines because that's the San Andreas fault and that's the Calaveras fault. Nothing on the Hayward fault yet, but then in 2011 we had a whole bunch of little quakes on the Hayward fault. That's where they think has the biggest chance of the next big quake. Now I'm no longer collecting these epicenters because it was turning into a mess, but I did add the 2014 Napa quake at 6.0 that was reasonably notable. There was some damage there. For further context, big, big, big quakes in 2010 Chile had an 8.8 that was tied for eighth floor just ever recorded. The Japan quake in 2011 with the huge tsunami and the nuclear problems that was in a four way tie for fourth largest ever recorded at a 9.0. And 2004 the Indonesia quake with the massive tsunami that ripped 400 miles of the earth crust. That was third largest ever recorded at a 9.1 to see we've been having a lot of these big things. In case you're curious, what is the largest quake ever recorded? Chile gets that distinction too is a 9.5 and I've heard that the planet is not capable of generating much more than a 9.5. So I thought it was notable that in the movie San Andreas with Dwayne Johnson the rock spoiler alert, there's a big earthquake or two. The earthquake that they had there the big one was a 9.6, which I think was funny because it's almost like, okay, they want to be realistic. They just make a tiny little bit larger than the largest earthquake ever recorded, not like most of the rest of the movie was realistic. But that's another story. Okay, so let's let's shift gears a little bit and talk about what you're going to experience depending on where you are. Now, if you're in San Francisco, I know some of you who hooked up aren't. This is a map of San Francisco showing the liquefaction potential, the potential for the ground to temporarily lose structural integrity and behave like a liquid. The water kind of comes out. The darker brown it is the worse it is. Okay, so you can see dark brown light brown hand. Greatest areas of liquid faction are in the dark brown. Why does it look like that you might wonder, well, let's look at what San Francisco looked like before we started filling in the bay. And you'll see. Really fascinating. So for example, I told you the Marina district is built on landfill. There's the Marina then there it is now. See how that works. And what was really interesting and ironic is that the Marina was filled in for a 1915 Panama Pacific exposition to celebrate San Francisco's recovery from the 1906 earthquake. It wasn't tested until 1989 and didn't do well. You ever wonder why they call Mission Bay, Mission Bay, considering that it's not a Bay, because it used to be a bay. That's simple as that. So for those of you in that part of town or who know this area. All of Mission Bay is landfill, the hospital that touches down on real, real ground. And what's really kind of neat and a little scary is that this whole area that this, you know, the financial district, the waterfront, it's all landfill and when they excavate for buildings there. They will sometimes uncover boats underground because landfill is anything you use to fill in the water at least in those days. They've discovered peers and it's really intense. Let's see probably you might be able to read this on your on your monitors. I'm not sure but that says great sand bank. So the whole western part of the city is sand dunes and sand dunes are stronger than landfill. The sand has been there for a much longer time, but it's still shifting. You still have to be careful if you live out in that part of town that you have to worry about shifting sands. So we're going to talk about that again in a minute, but let's look at Mission Bay, which is really interesting. And I used to live in Mission Bay. But it's still a really interesting thing to look at. Why are we building on landfill like this given what happened in the marina and in Mission Bay, we've got a university of giants ballpark, you know, the new stadium, the chase center. We've got condos, apartments, all sorts of things. Why are we doing that? And the good news is that we know much better now how to build on landfill than we used to. So if you're in Mission Bay, this is the corner of fifth and very for those of you who know the area. I took this photo number of years ago. They were just putting up the Avalon apartments there. You will see as they prepare to build, you'll see these 50 foot tall steel or iron or sometimes cement piles that they hammer down all the way through the landfill until they goes almost, you know, disappeared and then they will another one on top and then they keep on going cycle after cycle until they hit the point of refusal or bedrock. And it's not just a few of these, it's whole forests. So that bunch of them that went down, they then put these up afterwards. And I've heard that those buildings in Mission Bay and similar areas that are building that they build these days are around five to 600 strike points per building. So you can really think of those buildings as the tops of skyscrapers where most of the structure is underground and is sitting on solid ground. You know what happened with the millennium tower that that's tilting they didn't go all the way to bedrock they just went down with friction piles about 80 feet and there turns out that wasn't sufficient. But the things that they're building these days they're going to bedrock and in fact sales force tower not only did they go to bedrock but they drilled into it so that thing is really anchored. So in Mission Bay what's really interesting is you can walk around and you can see that the ground around those reinforced areas is still sinking. So I took these pictures number of years ago and then came back a year or two later to the same places. Took those pictures so you can see that the sidewalks in the streets are sinking into buildings aren't that's actually a good thing because it shows you that the buildings really aren't sinking right they're not moving, but it obviously has other problems that they have to solve in those areas. Okay what about the western half of San Francisco. You know the whole western half was sand dunes it was the outside lands is what they called it in those days and that's where they got the name for the music festival in Golden Gate Park. That's the sunset district in the 1800s looking out towards the ocean and I love this photo because this is taken from Golden Gate Heights 15th and Ortega looking towards the ocean. So you can see in the foreground 19th Avenue. It's already there, and you can see Golden Gate Park. It's already there. This is going to be the sunset and Parkside districts that's going to be the Richmond district. Well like I said Santa stronger than landfill but if you think of those buildings that are on it now. They in many cases are older and we're not built to any kind of seismic code and so basically any building before the 1970s and I hear it like in about 15 years ago there was another increase in standards. You should really check to see if the building is seismically sound foundations etc whether it needs to be retrofitted we'll touch on that at the very end of the talk. Okay so again shift gears. What would you do during a big quake and this is important because there are some really dangerous myths that have been out there for years. So if there was a sizable quake. Let's think about this where are you better yet where where are you not. You are not running out of the building and this can be hard because there's millions of years of evolution in your head screaming it you run out of the building right. The fact is that at least in the industrialized countries. The most injuries occur when people are running from inside the building to outside the building, and they run through that danger zone that's right outside the building. That's where things are coming down bricks windows of you know glass if it's a problem, science stuff like that that's where the debris is falling. And so this is a footage. I don't know if we can hear it or not. This is footage that I got from CNN. After the New Zealand Christ church quake, which is really neat because you can see what the people running out of the building and you can see exactly what they're running through to get there. And I got to say New Zealand. This was really interesting because we saw so many photos after that Christ church quake of collapsed big buildings and there were all these stories of people who got trapped in there. And even I started to think Jean maybe this advice not to run out of the building isn't good. And so I did a little bit more checking. And it turns out that all those pictures of the collapse buildings in Christ church were photos of the same four buildings. The vast majority of buildings in Christ church did not collapse. The vast majority of the damage looked like this. Right. And you could read about it in the news is that there are bodies on the streets under the rebel. So you don't want to, you don't want to be there. And this is a picture from the Napa quake in 2014. Right. You wouldn't have wanted to be running through that door to get outside building still there. Here's back at the Loma Prieta quake. I told you that most of the casualties were in that collapse freeway. The second largest number of people who died where the five people killed in south of market. Sixth and Bluxom when they were on the sidewalk and the facade collapsed on them. Okay. And here's a photo from Ecuador 2016 and you know as we see these pictures from quakes. Yeah, you see some collapsed building because you also see a lot of this. You don't want to be next to a building. Here's another one that's going to surprise people. You're not standing in a doorway. Okay. Big surprise because people in my generation, especially from Southern California, we were already taught, we were always taught to brace yourself in a doorway right that's based on a myth. In the olden days, the buildings there were Adobe basically clay with wooden door frames and they look better than this, but I'm not an artist. This is my, you know, Adobe with a wooden door frame and in those quakes actually in one quake. I used to say in those quakes, but I've since heard in one quake. There was a famous picture apparently of the. And the Adobe had pulverized and all that was left with the door frames. So it made sense to be under the door frame in those days. But in a modern building, the door frame is no safer than the rest of the building. And if there's a door, it's going to slam shut and cause various problems for you. So you're not supposed to do that. So where are you? This is going to be amazing common sense regardless of, you know, despite urban legends and spam that you get, you are under something sturdy, like a kitchen table and here's your first precaution because you can look around today where you live, you know, live, you know, later where you work and decide if there was a huge quake right now, what would I get under? What's accessible? What is hopefully away from Windows? What's not going to collapse itself? And work, how many of my coworkers am I going to have to fight off to be the winner to get under that one table in the middle of the room, right? I mean, these are actual legitimate questions to ask. Now, some of you might be thinking, oh, what about this whole triangle of, I'm sorry, I'm getting out of my head of myself. I have said more recently, if you're in your bed, you might want to just stay there. If there's nothing on the wall above you. Because apparently a lot of people have gotten injured in quakes by doing what my whole family did in the similar week. We got out of our beds in one end of the home. We went all the way to the other end of the house to the kitchen table. And people get injured during that transit. They're going through uncontrolled area. If you're in your bed, you're in like a big bumper car. They say, just cover your head with a pillow, curl up, and ride it out. So what I was starting to say is that there's this triangle of life concept, this thing that's been going around for years from a guy who says I'm an earthquake expert. And I've been to all these places where people get under things. And when the whole building comes down and the roof comes down, it crushes the thing that they're under and it crushes them. And I would say instead you should get next to something so that when the whole roof comes down, it hits the thing you're next to and you're in this triangle that has been debunked. It is flatly rejected by all of the mainstream emergency organizations. Here's a picture from Cole Lingokwake that I think is a great example of why you would not want to be next to a table you'd want to be under it. Right. I think Cross actually and these other organizations have requested that if you get that, that sometimes well intentioned email to group reply up the chain and say, no, this is not correct. They've put together a website that goes through this very compelling sounding email point by point and rebuts it. And I have my own website I linked to theirs. I talk about this all day and I'm not going to do it, but this gives me an opportunity to point out my quick tips blog, which is where I do talk about things like this and more detail. There's currently I think over 700,000 views I need to update that, but this gives you an idea of the kinds of topics that I post on. It's basically like a frequently asked questions before you've asked them. And actually sometimes they're based on questions that I get. So this just gives you an idea. I typically have posted to a less than once a month more recently has been more like a couple of times a year, but it's interesting ways to get further information. And there will be times during this talk that I say for more information, see the blog. Okay, really quickly. What about after a sizable quake there's this controversy about gas, just really frustrating because you think they'd be able to come to a consensus and there isn't. But if you have probably heard either that when there's a quake, you should turn your gas off, or you shouldn't turn your gas off, right? What the official advice from the utilities companies is that only turn your gas off if you suspect there's a leak. The reason for that is because if you do turn your gas off, they don't want you to turn it back on again. They want to come out and inspect the lines. After Loma Prieta, I hear it took PG&E and other utilities three weeks to come and turn everyone's gas back on again. So you could have problems, you know, be very, very cold for a long time. They say sniff for gas if you smell the gas additive smell. And if you see the meters are turning around your gas meter for no apparent reason if you hear hissing, right? Otherwise they say don't do it. And this is a big controversy, especially now that we have these automatic gas shut off valves. There's no time in this talk really to go into it but I spent a long time researching this and wrote a very long article on the blog about gas and you might want to go and check it out and you'll see that there's no perfect answer. But at least you'll be more knowledgeable about it. Either way, if you do need to turn your gas off, know how to do it. For typical smaller single family homes in some apartments, you'll see a gas meter, you'll see a pipe coming out of it, and you'll always see some kind of dial on it that has an obvious rod thing on it. If it's parallel to the pipe, it means the gas is on. If it's perpendicular to the pipe, it means the gas is off. It's very intuitive. What you might want to do, though, is you might want to take a wrench and you have a wrench there, have a wrench chained to it so you don't have to go searching for one, right? Check this. See if you can move it. Just take that wrench and turn it. Don't turn it off. Don't open that can of worms. Just turn it a little bit, maybe like an eighth of a turn. Chances are you won't be able to do it because these things have usually frozen in place and if you do need to turn off your gas and you can't, then you've got a problem. So if he turns out that you can't move it, call your utilities company and they will send someone out to free it up. Okay, so this brings us to the reason that we are here. You've probably heard from relatives and friends in other parts of the country. It's like, why do you live in that place with earthquakes, right? And you probably said, well, why do you live in that place with hurricanes and tornadoes and killer storms and, you know, all these things that happen in floods. And they come back at you and they say, well, at least we have warning. And with that, you figure, okay, you know, and you lose that argument, right? Well, I'm here to tell you, we do have advanced warning. And I'm not talking about the few seconds from the early warning systems. I'm saying we have a lot of advanced warning about earthquakes. There's going to be an earthquake. Do something about it. There you've been warned. Okay. But the problem is that it's not as simple as that. Clearly, there are so many things you can do. People look at these lists of things to do and they get overwhelmed. And they say, well, I'll figure this out one of these days. And one of these days never comes. And that's the problem. But what's important to realize is that some of these precautions are much cheaper and easier than others and much more important. So I have broken it down into categories from you've got no excuse not to do these things if you live in a place with earthquakes all the way down to, okay, if you've done everything else, what else can you do? So let's go through this in order. Most important thing I can tell you today, what to not have over your bed. Okay. Here's here's another anecdote. During the Silmar Quake, I have a relative who's younger than me. He used to spend, you know, go out into the hallway in the middle of the night and curl up outside your parents' bedroom. And during the Silmar Quake that I might have missed that during the Silmar Quake in 1971, they had heavy-framed pictures in their hallway. And they jumped off their hooks, which pictures typically frequently do. And one of them came crashing down in Mr. Head by that much. So there was no harm done, but you can see the tragedy that could have occurred. I mean, you figure you've got your head right there one-third of your life. Okay, wait, what year is this? Okay, maybe one-fifth of your life, right? Who are we kidding, right? But it's there a lot and it's usually asleep and you just don't want something can fall on it. So years ago, I had a tapestry over the bed. And since then, my more recent place is I just don't put anything over the bed. There's nothing there. It's not pretty, but, you know, it's okay. And also you want to keep your bed as far away from windows as you can. And it's not that you're worried that the bed's going to go sailing out the window. Well, who knows? But you're more concerned about glass breaking and rolling over into broken glass, getting out of bed into broken glass. People keep shoes and a bag tied to their bed, you know, so that they can get into it, but you're still in the bed with the broken glass. So if you can avoid being near a window, that's better. And actually, I saw some years ago an actual emergency planning booklet about earthquakes from a mainstream organization who shall remain nameless where it said, and I quote, keep your bed at least 10 feet away from the closest window. And I thought to myself, well, what city are these people living in? Were they right? Something like that. You know, a lot of people in your bedroom is not even 10 feet long, but you get the idea. It's not necessarily the most convenient. And, well, I mean, this tapestry sort of thing. This is not the most Martha Stewart approved decor, but, you know, these are the kinds of compromises that you make when you live in an earthquake area. So also in this crucial category is, yes, indeed, emergency supplies. And you're thinking, oh, yeah, yeah, I've got that backpack that I got. It's a lot of times those backpacks aren't good enough. Now I had a backpack years ago, and as time went on, and I started thinking about what would I really need if I needed to go and spend time in a shelter or something. It's grown quite a bit. It's now not a backpack. It's a rolling duffel bag. This has a telescopic handle, you know, and wheels. And so I've got stuff for going to a shelter. And I also have a lot of other supplies that are stationary in the home. And you've got to remember that the vast majority of times you will ever need your emergency supplies after an earthquake. You're not evacuating. You're fine. Your home is fine. But there's, you know, society has stopped for a few days and, you know, the stores are closed and you are basically limited to what you have on hand, so be self-sufficient, right? So I put a lot more emphasis really on the stationary things. So let's go through that. You want food, right? And you can have cans, but cans actually have a surprisingly short life. I've done the experiments before that used by date on the can. Sometimes they are true exploration dates. So sometimes you'll open them up a few years later and they're awful. So I really like these MREs. It stands for Meals Ready to Eat. It's military rations, but they're also used for emergency relief. And a lot of different companies sell these things now online. Individual meals with lots and lots of different kinds of menus. They'll have a little heater in it where you put a few drops of water into this packet and it heats up so you can have hot food. They're really pretty good. And as a matter of fact, there are some debates about their shelf life, but if you go to the blog, if you want to have some fun, there's a series of articles that I've been adding to over the years about me testing. Are the MREs really expired or not? Because when they expire, it doesn't mean that they've gone bad. It just means that they're not as good as they were before in terms of texture and flavor. So frankly, if you've taken MRE and you open it up when it's new, it's really actually pretty good. And at the end of its stated shelf life, it's kind of like, well, if you're happy opening up a can of Chef Boyardy ravioli and eating it, you'll be fine with this stuff. I have actually, you can go to the blog and read about my experiences. I think at this point it's a 14 year old MRE that I ate and I'm still here to talk about it. So go and check that out. It's kind of fun. Also, these food bars, various companies do this, basically fat and calories in a bar. They're pretty stable. Then water is a real question. The official estimates that I've heard have been to have a gallon of water per person per day. And they used to say you should have enough for three days, 72 hours, 72 hours.org or something like that. And then after Hurricane Katrina, they started saying seven days. And after Sandy in New York, they started talking about two weeks. It gives a limit to what you can do. I tend to hit the seven day mark. That's just my own comfort level. So that's, if you're a couple, that's 14 gallons of water. And where are you going to put that, especially if you live in a condo or an apartment or something like that. So I've opted for these gallon jugs. I will tell you don't stack them on each other because, as I and other people have found out, if the top one is on the bottom one for too long, the bottom one starts to crack and there's water everywhere. So I've always managed to put them in a separate layers. They're individually bagged anyways. And the good news is, you know that pesky expiration date or the use by date on these bottles. It's a real pain to dump out 14 gallons of jugs of water and the haul another supply in from the store. Probably I think still the most popular the most widely viewed article on my blog is the one where I say that the FDA has said that you could ignore that date. It's an arbitrary date, a completely arbitrary date put on by the bottlers. It's fine at the end of it. It's fine going through there. There's no BPA in the plastic disclaimer. There's always a possibility that they'll discover other plasticizers that will create problems and there are some, you know, studies that get done, but for an emergency situation something you're not going to be taking a, you know, frequently in your life. It's really not at risk from drinking water that comes out of an unopened one gallon commercially bottled bottle of water. Okay. And if it tastes a little odd, when you open it up it just means it's lost its aeration take the cap off let some air and cap it again shake it up and it will taste better. Okay. Now I always apologize for the slide I've never figured out how to make it interesting so it's just a list of things that that I have in my kit that you might think about. I'm going to try to rush through it and the handout that Lori will email to people after this has this list on it. So, food water for three to seven days can opener if you have cans utensils first aid kit. So this is pretty straightforward. I would like to highlight cash. You got to assume that after a big quake the ATMs won't work the credit card readers won't work and you might even be paying for things at the corner store with only with cash on hand. So, have cash and have it in small bills because that way you won't blow an entire $20 bill on a battery. Right. Do you can decide how much you want to stash away. And blankets if you think you're going to be cold these don't take up much room. Lots of solutions for radios and flashlights that are quick crankable or solar charge but batteries also light sticks are good and they've got the old fashioned ones they also have led battery powered ones. The last long time. I'd like to have a whistle and just remember my mother was stuck in her apartment after the Northridge quake and a neighbor knew to come get her out. But if no one had come the phones weren't working. She would have had to let people know she was there and a whistle is very small and very loud. Pocket knife is good, having supplies so that if you do leave your place you can write a note put it in a Ziploc bag tape and on the outside is rainproof rain ponchos that fold up are good. And vitamins personal medications. I want to actually pause and highlight this because this is a really important concept after a big disaster. Even when the drug store is reopened the supply chains can have can have problems and we've all seen from the pandemic that supply chains are a big deal right even before the pandemic I was hearing it could take up to two weeks for those drug stores to get their medications back in. And so if you have medications that you absolutely can't just suddenly stop taking anti depressants blood pressure whatever. You could be about to run out when the quake happens you've got to have figure out how to have a good like two week extra supply and I realize that for some of these. It can be difficult. You just have to figure it out because the the alternative is cold turkey. Personal sanitary supplies that's toilet paper and things like that. I've got an article in my blog that I did a few years ago about what to do about toilets. Check it out. It's kind of amusing spare eye classes things for pets out of town contact info if you rent landlord contact info. Have a family emergency plan. You always hear about this and it's different for every person. I can't really tell you what to do but know if you're a group of people a family unit. The quake happens when you're not home and you can't get home where you're going to meet have your insurance info backed up power failure backup lights I really I really like these and I'm not talking about flashlights that live in the wall and are always charged. I'm talking about these lights this is an old one now they've got the LEDs that are better. These lights that live in your outlet and they're off as long as there's power to them and charging. And if the power goes out or if you pull it out of the socket then they light up and these LEDs they'll last for hours. So it means that you'll never wake up to a dark room in an earthquake. And they're also actually great for just regular power failures I've really benefited from the ones that I have in every room. I'm not going to spend too much time on this courted telephone and landline service that used to be advice and as more and more people ditch their landlines it's becoming harder and harder to really justify I mean we have landline service and we have a courted phone. Just in case, but even the landline service nowadays is battery backups. So it's getting harder and harder to justify this. Okay, thank you for bearing with that. The last thing in this crucial category is water heater bracing the water heaters, a lot of water heaters that looked like this fell over and lumber lumber Prieta and Northridge quakes. So they you know I keep saying they I mean the people who give this advice, I just reported they have said, we're not even going to try to tell you how to brace a water heater go to your hardware store and tell them you need to brace a water heater and they'll give you what you need. Simple as that. Okay, next category down picture hooks big deal. What do you do about pictures. Remember those pictures that came crashing down and that I told you about and the somewhere quick. So when you've got a picture on a wire or anything on a hook or nail it just jumps and falls off these maze picture hooks are really neat. They're a piece of plastic from the front from the side and it's a maze book. So you can either nail them in here or there's a hole there you can screw it into a to a stud. But the picture wire goes into this maze and if the picture jumps around it's really hard for this to come out. So it'll jump around but it won't fall. To put them on you just grab the wire in both sides and it's easy to thread in and it's actually pretty easy to unthread it when you need to take it off. Oh, but but don't use that as an excuse to hang a heavy picture over the head of your bed because nothing is foolproof. Right. More recent years I've been experimenting with and liking these command strips the style that's like a double bill pro thing. They're nice and they result in having a picture on the wall that has no motion whatsoever. So it's not going to be flopping around and assuming that you use one that you know rated for the weight of the object you're putting up. It's pretty good and you can go to my blog again and look for these command strips or for pictures and you'll see a bunch of videos that I took of myself holding a piece of drywall which I had painted with the same paint in my condo and I've stuck various pictures to it in different ways and I'm shaking it around as much as I can to see what works. These did remarkably well, you need to have a flat solid back for them to work. They're pretty impressive. I'd say about half of the pictures in my current home are on May's picture hooks and the other half are on these. Okay bookcases, you're supposed to brace them to the wall at the top to prevent this from happening. Right at the top there, there are commercial commercially available products that make it pretty easy to do this. I'm not endorsing this one company but they really do seem to have the most of the products out there. It's what you'll probably find. This is a good product. It's a very, very sticky Velcro and the other side of the Velcro is a strap that you bolt to the wall into a wall stud, not the, not the drywall because the thing will just pull right out. And in case you don't know how to work with wall studs, I've got a big long article in my blog about how to deal with wood wall studs, metal wall studs, etc. So you go check that out. And it's nice because there's a little bit of play, first of all, and you can undo the Velcro if something falls behind there and you need to get to it. It also goes for file cabinets and anything else that you don't want to fall down. Then when it comes to things that are blocky that you want to stick to a surface, bunch of different kinds of products they used to have these buckles and straps, which have been I think largely supplanted by this one side as a buckle and the other side is Velcro. There's also these double sided Velcro blocks. And also the I don't have a slide for this but the grippy grippy material they have some like super industrial strength grippy blocks that can help stack things like that. And for flat panel monitors and TVs, I kind of half agree with this this this company markets this product for both. And for a flat panel TV there's usually a wall behind it so the fact that it's preventing it from falling forward and not backward is probably fine. But for a flat panel monitor frequently it's in the middle of the room. So this is a great idea from the US geological survey. That's the buckles and straps on the base. That's what I tend to do. Very old, very old picture now a Dell monitor that I had that moved around swiveled and things like that I had them on the base. And then if you think about what's on your shelves. It would take a pretty big quake to make things fly off of the shelf but even in a smaller quake that sets up vibrations objects can walk forward and fall, and that can cause various problems. So in my desk I'm actually sitting right now right here looking exactly at this thing that I'm showing you this is kind of surreal. There's a picture wire here on two screw eyes, and that prevents the books from moving forward and if I want to book I just pick it up. And more recently and more recent years I found this nice product it's essentially a good looking bungee cord with plastic and caps that you crimp onto the ends and then you screw that to the furniture. So it prevents things from moving if I want to pull out a book I just pull down the strap, but if there was an earthquake and everything started moving forward at the same time it would hold them in. And people have been doing this with ugly bungee cords, you know, and book cases for years but this actually looks better. Now that I'm dating this talk you can see how long ago I put this talk together I don't have whole cases of CDs anymore but I show this for a reason. Why did I have my CDs behind these things, I mean they fall down you pick them up. Who cares right. The reason is that for a number of years at different times I've had a small dog in the family and occurred to me years ago that if the small dog was underneath this and looking up all these sharp plastic corners coming falling down could actually be harmful. And so you've got to keep the smaller people in the family in mind the the two legged and four legged variety, right. And if you go to my blog you'll actually see a reprinted article that I did many years ago for the cold hardware newsletter that people used to get in the mail about extra precautions you can take for your pets if they're home alone. They're there when the earthquake occurs and you're not there. What can you do to make sure that they won't get in trouble. Next cabinet next category down and I'm going to try to, I'm going to try to end this I think about real five I think is where we're pushing for cabinet latches. You think about this, you might have very difficult cabinets to open, they might be magnetic latches or stiff latches or whatever. But in a quake, especially with everything trying to fall out, push their way out, all of the stuff comes out and a lot of people have found this out the hard way. So if you think about all those oils and liqueurs and condiments and glasses and plates and everything behind your cabinet doors, that's going to be all over the place in a big mess. My dad took days cleaning up his kitchen after the Northridge quake for this. So some people will put in the child proof latches where you have to let the door open an inch and stick your fingers in and move a lever. Okay, that works, but I like to cook I'm in and out of the cabinets all the time. It's just too inconvenient for me. So there are two kinds of cabinet latches that I've really liked. One of them is the push latch, otherwise known as a touch latch. It's a claw and a peg. And here's a. Oh, well here's a, here's a picture from a recent quake showing what happens if you don't do this. Okay, I forgot I had added that picture. So here's a video showing how it works. You can't pull it open, but if you push it first disengages hopefully you can see the video working. And then you can you close it you push it again, and now it can't open. Right. Really, really nice it's hardly any inconvenience at all. You have to tell people Oh, don't pull that push it first. Right. But they're a bit of a pain to install and so I have a big long article on my blog with tips about how to do it right the first time. And the only issue with these things is there's a theoretical concern that in given the right kind of motion and a quake these things could flop around and and self activate and I actually did see a simulation of a Japanese quake where there were cameras inside and outside and I've witnessed this occur so I know it's possible. There are ways to install them that minimize that but it is possible. And so I was really interested when I heard about this Japanese latch a Murakoshi latch that I actually have in my current place I've put these in, I really like them. If you go to the blog you can read all about them. The basic idea is this is that there are latches out there where an earthquake will make something fall into place to catch it and I don't trust those. It takes too long for something to fall into place. This works backwards. This there's a little pendulum in the middle. And as long as that pendulum is perfectly centered, it can open. If that pendulum is the tiniest tiniest little bit off center, it can't open. This is really quite effective and I've heard from people who have these in RVs, you know to stop things from falling out as they're moving that they really do work. So go to the blog and you can see a lot of information about that. We're getting near the end. earthquake insurance. Okay, this is an issue. It makes a lot of sense, right. It's expensive. There are deductibles. But when my mother who who was an insurance agent by the way but that's that's, you know, not relevant here. When she lost her apartment in the Northridge quake, her earthquake insurance paid for time in a hotel and new possessions and things like that it was really good for her. It's, it's a calculated risk. Japanese presumably are all working through the California earthquake authority who's actually the one that does it. Now I have to say, I got to this is the great thing about doing this from home on my desk. I got this thing in the mail. I don't know if you can see it. Well, okay, you might have gotten something like this to from the California earthquake authority that basically says, well, from now on our policy isn't going to be as good as it used to be. Do you want to still have it. Yeah, I'm a little disturbed disturbed about that and I haven't had a chance to look into it too much. But there's an issue there and I'm not sure what it means yet. Last category down sticking things to surfaces, loose objects, this might seem overkill, but consider that in the somarquake, we had a couple of things fall off shelves, but in the Northridge quake in almost the same place. And it tells me that every loose object on a surface turned into a high speed projectile that flew across the room. Quite scary. And so you can stick things down with various products, like this guy is stuck down with with quake buddy. And it's a bunch of these products where you can push down and twist a little bit and then you can't pick it up you can't knock it over but if you want to you just pull up and you twist a little, and it comes right off. And if it's behind you can take more of it and dab at it. Different for each product. I will tell you that, well I'm not endorsing any particular product or company, I can unendorse something. I will warn you about this museum wax is gunky it's really hard to clean up leaves oil slicks. I don't use this to real pain. I like the putties quake putty quake hold putting museum putty amazing stuff they're all very similar white putty, you form it you take little dabs of it, you put it in the place, really quite nice. It's not clear. So if you're putting down something that's clear it looks ugly. So there's this one clear quake hold gel where it looks like water but you literally you can pull the water that stuff out it turns cloudy, and then it clears up again with time. And you can go to my blog and read all about the considerations of these things. Remember, don't use this to put something on a wall or horizontal surface this is to prevent things from moving on a surface on a vertical surface. No, wait, let me try that again. Don't put things on a vertical wall. This is to stick things down to a horizontal surface. Okay, there. So what's going to do with these actually I'll tell you one thing. You might have stopped your cabinet doors from opening but like they say in the airlines the contents may have shifted. Right. So if you have these expensive wine glasses or stuff some people will use quake putty to stick the wine glasses down and having given that away I now need to tell you that if you do that. When you pull the wine glasses up don't pull it up from the top because you'll just break the stem is you got to pull it from the bottom it's a twist and a tilt and it's an acquired talent. And if you do this the first time you'll think I can't get this thing off why did I listen to that idiot, but just keep keep experimenting and you'll see twist and tilt and that means don't have the glasses too close to each other because they need to be able to tilt a little bit to get them off. Okay, so, and these things you don't even have to get rid of them you just peel them off drop them right there in a little ball on your shelf and then you can reuse them again afterwards. They're quite nice. Okay, almost done. I told you that you might need to retrofit your home. And I can't give you technical advice about that but I do recommend that you if your home is before the early 1970s at least that you have someone come out and take a look at it, especially if it's soft story but even if not just just to find out if it needs to be retrofitted or not. So the next thing you do consider joining a nerd in San Francisco or cert teams in other areas this nerd is the first one that grew out of the Loma Prieta quake. When a lot of people wanted to help the firefighters who were overstretched and some did help and others just got on the way. And the department decided they would train an army of volunteers. So that the next time this happens, the citizens would know what to do and they will train you and the search programs that went nationwide. They will train you in light search and rescue light priage first aid things like that in like six evening sessions or a couple of weekend sessions. So when you're certified to do this, if there's a disaster like a major earthquake, you check if you and your family and your neighbors are okay, you grab your gear, you go to a predetermined place for your district, and the fire department puts you to work doing the simple thing so that they can focus on the hard things. Very, very worthwhile thing to do. The story sends out will have some of these links. I'm not necessarily endorsing these companies but they're good sources of information. I think sometimes these links get out of date, and hopefully if someone tries one and finds that it no longer works please let me know because I don't always go and go. But you'll notice down at the bottom is my website. Earthquake.MatthewAllSpringer.com and the blog Quake tips they talked to each other. I'm not doing much with the website these days other than a presentation schedule it's most of the emphasis is on the blog. But as you can tell I like to talk about this stuff. So feel free to email me if you have questions. After this I'll stick around for questions now but if you have questions later feel free to email me. I'm happy to help you and your question might even turn into a blog article at one point. And I want to leave you with one closing thought. Okay, these, these precautions that we've been talking about are a hassle, right they're annoying they're they're inconvenient. Why would you do all this stuff with this theoretical possibility of an earthquake. I want you to think about those keys that you carry with you everywhere you go you leave you lock your door. You carry them in your pocket your backpack your purse, whatever. If you lose the keys you risk locking yourself out of your home. This is really inconvenient why are you doing something so inconvenient, because you're worried that your house is going to get robbed. Right. Think about it. The, the chances that you're going to get burglarized are probably less on an aggregate than the chances that you'll one of these days experience one of these quakes. And I think it makes sense, common sense just to make the precautions that you take match the risks that you face. And with that, I will close I'm going to stop sharing my screen. I see there are some questions in the chat but you know what I'd like to do is just to. Well I guess we can go through the questions in the chat first Laurie do you want to moderate that. Yes, there's one could raise their hands afterwards. There's one question from Maureen. What is the average cost for soft story retrofit. Oh, that's an excellent question and I do not know the answer. Thousands, thousands, but I just don't know. I found an article from the Chronicle. It sets the typical soft story retrofit can cost between 14,000 to 27,000 I'll send a link. And you should be aware that there are different programs or grant programs in San Francisco, maybe California, I'm not sure that they come up every now and then to help defray the costs at least with low interest loans to help defray the defray the costs of the retrofits. There are the reason that you know some of these retrofits are actually required. So a number of years ago and was it San Francisco or or a larger area I'm not sure they mandated that units of with a certain number of of that is buildings with a certain number of units with certain kinds of constructions had to be retrofitted and the reason is that if these things all come down in a quake there's going to be a homeless crisis that puts to pale anything that we're currently facing right now. We said that retrofit cost depends upon the amount of work needed. Our three story story apartment building was over 16,000 60,000. Wow. Yeah, over 60,000. Yeah, and you know this is an issue when I first heard that they were going to mandate this I was thinking myself well what do you do for the people who are just barely making ends meet that just don't have that kind of money. You can see there's a problem there. I don't think there's an easy answer to it, but those who have the ability, or who can get the right grants or loans. It's worthwhile. Yeah, I got I'm going to give you one more little story. One of the first times I ever gave this talk I was amused at this. Someone came down to me and asked me a question at the point at the end then he said well that was really something but this bit about retrofitting your home. Why is it in the least important category instead of the most important category I mean what's the point of taking all these precautions if your house falls down. And I told them well it's not that it's not important is just it's not cheap and it's not easy and you're not going to do it today. Right. So that's why it's in the lowest category but that doesn't don't make that don't feel then that it's not important. That's the only question in the chat. If you have question please feel free to raise your hand and I see another question from Maureen. Do you know about the brace and bolt program I got an email want to know if it's legit seems to me seems you need to have a cross base to qualify I don't have a cross base in my Richmond district home. Gee, no I don't know about the brace and bolt program by name. Is that one of the the grant programs is maybe if more Indian can, you know you can feel free to unmute and have a real come real comment. Hi there, Maureen. I'll make myself visible here in a second. Yeah, I've got it. It's, let's see if I'm trying to go on to my email. Okay, it says earthquake brace and bolt.com. And it says if you have any questions please contact customer service at info earthquake brace.com and it gives an 800 number 877 and says time is limited to register. On January 14, and I stuck you. It mentions, you know, it's got the cow. Oh yes here and I could maybe. I don't know. Email it to you or something. I just looked it up. I mean as you were talking, I put it into a browser I see it. It looks, and it looks legit. I guess I would have to say these days. Double check. But I know that there are programs like this. Yeah. Yeah. The one he says is that when I was filling the information out. But I don't have it. It looks like maybe you have to have a crawl space to qualify. Because it stopped me it wouldn't let me go any further when I, you know, I just if you had a crawl space like there's no cross space. That's interesting. I guess maybe that's. Let's see. It says these programs provide grants for a specific building code compliant seismic retrofit. So it looks like they are. They're not talking about just retrofitting in general seismic retrofitting in general. It looks like it really is specific to that one flaw. I don't know what I can tell. But, you know, I, I, I hesitate to give too much advice about this because I totally not qualified to discuss the technical aspects of, of the retrofitting. Do you know where we might contact about that because, you know, I have like, you know, it's a soft story, you know, one, like a lot of the houses in the Richmond and the sunset where there's a garage. So you go up the stairs and there's that one story or sometimes two stories. Yeah, there's, there's a. Well, I mean, I know, I know of people who do this. These inspections, but I'm always a little bit reluctant to get into, you know, personal referrals and this sort of thing as a conflict of interest, but there should be a citywide resource. Let me try to remember what it is. Maybe, you know, I could look after the talk I can check in some of my bookmarks and see if I can find it because the best thing to do would be to go to San through San Francisco. I know also that hardware stores will refer you to contractors. But, you know, as I've been walking around the neighborhood I keep seeing the same names pop up there's this. This thing this truck that I see around in various places in the Richmond district that's got a seismograph logo on it I forget what it's called. There's a lot of organizations out there that do it. But I imagine you're going to want to check several places because the costs, the estimates might vary quite a bit. And I've never had to do it so I don't have any personal experience to go off of. I found this part of your funds to strengthen your own somebody put something in the chat funds to strengthen your foundation. Yeah, thank you. Yeah. That's from the California Governor's Office of Emergency Services. I believe it's legit. It talks about the brazen bull. I didn't read the entire article but you can look into that. Yeah, thank you. Yeah, DBI I see that that comment DBI would assist. Yeah. DBI has had his own DBI has had some problems. Hopefully you're aware. You might not want to go through DBI. DBI. I would go just maybe the the actual the actual emergency planning and in the city is might be the best way to do it. And how do you contact them? Well, that's what I was going to try to look up after you can send a link out. I mean, you've heard all there there's a lot of scandals at DBI with people. Yeah. So, presumably they've fixed that, but I would just gave me a little bit of a feeling that I would want to look elsewhere. So yeah, I can look into it and send Lori a link to send out. Any other questions. Well, thank you everyone for your attention. Thank you so much, Matt. We really appreciate you taking the time to share with us how to prepare for an earthquake and I also want to thank everyone for joining the program. I hope you all find the presentation helpful to you. I will send out Matt's handout and your evaluation survey and the recording link to everyone in maybe 15 minutes. Please feel free to respond to the survey. We can continue to improve our programming. Again, thank you everyone. Have a wonderful rest of your day. Bye bye now.