 And today we want to speak about men's mental wellness, men's mental health, because there has been an alarming number of suicide, of death by suicide by men, especially in Kirinyaga County. And I'll just give you some figures before I introduce the guest. We have 132 people who have died of suicide in Kirinyaga in 2021 and 2022 and out of the 132, 106 are men and 26 are women. So you can imagine that range, that is quite a huge number of men committing suicide. Also, most men die of suicide by hanging themselves inside the houses and on trees while others die drown themselves in rivers and wells. This is some of the statistics found and according to World Health Organization, males die by suicide at twice the rate of females and high income countries have the highest suicide rates among males. So these are some of the, you know, worrying statistics that are there in regards to mental health in on men. And we want to address this today and for that we are joined by Anthony Njenga, who is a counselor and not a new face on Y2Five, what can you say to Anthony? Anthony, it's been a minute. Yeah, it's been a minute. Glad you have you. It looks good. I can imagine now, you may set the tone. I don't know if it's because of the car. Oh, wow. I don't know. It's because of the color. It's because of the orange. I don't know. I'll go show you and get it from you. It's because of the tone. I can't read the message. I can't read it. Anyway. Propaganda. Well, you look good yourself. Thank you so much. All right. So let's talk about this. Yes. Why is it that it's important to speak about this now? I think it's high time. And I think we have been doing this for the longest time possible. We have not been doing this now. Personally, I have an initiative whereby it's called Encourage to Inspire. I've been going to schools, high schools, primary schools, universities, colleges, different institutions, churches, corporates, you know, talking about these issues because, you know, it's high time we focus on men. You know, I think we have, in the past period, to focus on ladies and women and girls. We have empowered more ladies and women. That's why we can touch, we can at these institutions, they are chamasso women, they are women conferences, they are women meetings, you know, ladies or something like that. But now it's high time we have men's talk, men's conference, not men's conference here, Valentine. But now this on a serious case because it is high time because you can see the cases of Kirinyaga, 106 men, you know, out of 100 and 32. So it is high time because I feel like for the men, you know, the background, the culture, the society, the men have been raised to be the strong men. So even after the circumcision process, after that, you become a man from a boy, you know, talk on a physical level. So some of that, some of that change, some of that cultural perspective and the societal perspective of how a man should behave. But one thing people should realize that is that a man is a normal human being like any other person. They're also human. Yes. And we have emotions too. You know, I usually am one advocate of saying it is very okay for a man to break down. It's very okay for a man to be emotional. But the men who are watching it will be like nah. We can't do that. We can't do that. Unless they are lures and they're going to the funeral. We're getting hit. But anyway, it is very okay, it is very okay for a man to break down. If you're a man or if you're watching me right now, if you feel things are too difficult because you're in a economic crisis, you know, as men, we try so hard. We try so hard to make a living for ourselves, for our families, you know. You know, if a man has a responsibility, the moment you reach at a certain age, if you're at a certain age, if you're feeling a mess, you need too much. Because when you're first born, and you're a man, there's that pressure. People are looking at you and there's that pressure. You need to work. If maybe you have a family, you have a home. You have kids. You have a wife. You know, you have people at home who are looking or are dependent. Probably you are only receiving a salary of like $10,000. And I'm imagining that there's a man maybe in Nairobi. You're the only one who has been educated in your family yet. People are looking at, you know, seeing you as a village. But one thing, Steph, as a man, they need to understand is that the society has so many expectations to own up to a man that, you know, you have to man up. Now you're in the Caribbean, Valentine's, talking of that. There's that pressure already. There's a lot of pressure. And there's memes in the course that say, okay, you're a man, you're a woman, you're a man, you're a woman. Come out and pay your gifts. But, you know, it is high time. How about you shift this conversation to you as ladies? How about you gift this man? Yeah. Because let me tell you for a fact. And this I'm telling you for a fact. Right now, most people are single, most men are single, because there's a lot of pressure in relationships. Okay. So there's a man that prefers to be single, after two years, after two years, then to be involved in a relationship, and you don't put too much pressure. You don't want to stress more. No, no. Because there's a video saying of a man who has a suicide story. It's an old man, I think around 50s. There's a reason why people commit suicides. It's because there's a lot of pressure in the house, but there's a lot of pressure. There's a societal perspective of pressure. There's a lot of pressure. There's a lot of pressure. There's a lot of pressure. And I think most times we joke around that. Exactly. It's normal. So what do you say to that? There's a lot of pressure. There's a lot of pressure. You know, the man, it's for both of us. How should it be? So that, you know. You guys are married. You guys are in a relationship. You're married. You have decided to do this life together. I think it should be a balance. They should be a balance. If I'm doing this, at least helping something. But there are ladies who receive, or women who receive a salary of maybe whichever amount, and you pursue a career. But for a man, maybe I receive salary. You know, there are cases whereby ladies are receiving a salary more than the man, and it's the man who is providing. And the lady's salary is bank. If I'm doing this for 20K, I won't be familiar with it. But the day I'm doing this for 30K, bank, make up, I'm going to kill you. And there are people who say, if I'm doing this for 20K, I'm going to be a sponsor. I'm going to be a sponsor. I'm going to be a fan. So there's too much pressure, I think. The boy child. The boy child. I don't want to make too much pressure from the society, from the culture. They're talking of the same story of suicide. Last week on Tuesday, there was a 14-year-old boy. You saw that. He committed suicide. He didn't commit suicide for one. He didn't commit suicide for one, but he committed suicide. The father had already paid the fees. He had already paid the fees. The boy was excited. He was at work. He was obedient. He was so excited. But the father was shocked that he committed suicide for one. You know, there are a lot of cases that are happening even in the primary school level. That's why I'm one advocate of saying and even talking to you know, schools are open right now. I'm one advocate of saying it is very important. I think right now, we're pursuing mental health in schools. I think now, there are a lot of counselors in schools. But I think it's high time we put... It's required to know if there are a lot of people after a few years or a few months in the primary school level. It should be there because a lot is happening in primary schools. A lot is happening in high schools. You know, 85% of who you are is made up of your childhood experience. True. Only 15% is made up of your adult. Yeah. 85% of it, your personality, your character, how you are right now. It was built when you were young. When you were young. So you can imagine this 14-year-old boy probably, maybe, you know, Sodom is happening even in the primary school level. You know, people think only Sodom happens in high school. Yeah. You know, people think that men cannot be sexually abused but men can be sexually abused. Those are some of the things that men go through and they tend to... Exactly. They cannot say it because it's high time even the society creates that safe space for us to be able to share our issues because people tend to think that men can be sexually abused. For example, can I give you an example? Let's say, for example, we are dating. Yeah. Go ahead. Go ahead. Go ahead. Go ahead. It's an example. No, we are dating. Now, let's say, for example, you have a disagreement with your relationship. Then you slap me or you beat me. My wife has beaten me. How would they take it? The retcons. Ah, that's why men can be sexually abused. Men can be sexually abused. Now, how would that case be solved? You know, issues of gender-based violence on physical abuse, sexual abuse, it happens on men too, not only on women. But people don't try to understand that. They feel like it's only women who want to go through that. And if you're a man, you're supposed to endure or do something about it because you're a man. But I would ask you, Anthony, why is it that the cases are on the rise now as compared to, you know, the times of our parents and the generations that were before us? Wasn't it the same thing when the men, the providers of the home, when the expectations are the same? So why is it different now? I think it is different right now because you know your time. There are times we don't know what happened. A lot happened. And you know most of the time our parents, I would say our parents also need therapy because our parents also go through a lot maybe from the other families. So they try and project to their kids. Okay. Our parents, let's say if it is a mom and the dad in a home and they have a boy in that home state as the first born or the second born or whichever, let's say these parents were not raised well in their home, okay? Now, it is a strictness they try and project the same on the kids. They try and determine the kids' future. There are parents who say their children need a course. They also need engineering. They need a law. Don't do media. No, no, no. Media is bad. It doesn't have market. Do doctor. It would be a doctor. Do medicine. Do surgery. In the process you should know maybe you are going to act but in the process you should know teaching. Now, you should know at a field who my family is an expect family and we need support. Thank you. I am not getting that support from my family. Now, who am I supposed to talk to or be open to? If my family is the first that's the first that's the first close person of close friend we have. Come a family and we support. Now, who else to support me? So, from the family and also on the same same area we have 14-year-old boy male grade four last year December 2022 grade four pupil and commit suicide. It's crazy because even in my nephew's school there was also a grade three student last year. You can imagine I have grade three and I have been there for 9-10 years. Yeah, who committed suicide. I mean, why? There is a lot happening in the grass root level. I think it's high time even as the government even as the society even as parents we look at the grass level the ground because you think we do the escalating yet adult. No. There are things of our childhood what the things we ignored in our childhood. So, we need to address the childhood traumas that we have. We need to address the childhood traumas because it really matters a lot because we have a grade three, grade four, 14-year-old boy from one this is the primary school. Maybe it's because you go through that you share you share and there is the fear of being a man who is maybe your parent like where are you I am I am I am we expect this from ladies or girls but it is a bad thing for you to open up that's why there are men who hide behind behind bars let me tell you something for a fact, Stephanie take it to the bank and those who are watching can attest you can do you can do you can have that or people cannot feel at which they share at which they share issues where do we hide drugs where do we hide alcohol go to Mombasa there is issues of drug abuse look at the gender look at the statistics of drug abuse in Mombasa and alcohol you say some are drugs heroin cocaine these are drugs these are statistics they are men 26-year-old boy these are men who committed suicide in Kirenyaga because there is no money at the bank at the bank imagine the article the previous evening this man was having a confrontational argument with the mother in the party but then the following morning the body decided to commit suicide 26-year-old you can imagine that's because there is no money at the bank so this is exactly the underlying issues how is it the mother maybe she has a close connection so she is at the bank hiding behind drugs the people who hide behind alcohol they have issues and that's why I say be very careful there are signs and symptoms of somebody or a man who is going through mental health illness alcohol and drugs and you feel this is a normal thing this is just leisure two reasons for leisure and for abuse I say leisure once in a very long time in a while I say beer is just one glass or one bottle and that's it but now you get somebody you have a friend who is a man you have a relative you have a brother who is a man who is a man maybe you have a son and you keep on seeing them going on and on maybe you have a son you know a lot is going through and you go through and maybe you have a girl you have a drug you have alcohol because and I feel there is no one to listen to me there is no one to talk to me because I am I am a man who should I talk to you know so what should be done I'm being told that time is running out but you want to know the solutions to this what should be done by the government because they read people from Kirinaga were saying that government should come in and do something so what should be done and on a society level what can we do to to help men in the society speak up because that is the problem men are not speaking enough so yeah give us some recommendations now on Kirinaga let me say that the government can come in work with NGOs work with me also I'm a therapist I'm a psychologist they can work with psychologists work with doctors who are professionals or mental health advocates in the same area we're ending now with different personnel we're ending our tackle issue work with more awareness programs men awareness programs men awareness programs in Kirinaga county what they said I imagine right now it's the best time for the county government or the national government to take that charge in Kirinaga or organize men awareness programs at least to engage the men and as a society we need to really really create that safe space for a man to open up it is very okay for a man to be emotional to be vulnerable to be vulnerable so it is very okay as a society don't create that notion that a man you know when they come talking to you they believe you if you're a friend to that man if you're a sister or you're a brother or a parent to that son or that man please make that routine of talking to your to your person or your child talking to your brother or your you know your relative your cousin talk to them if you're a parent please talk to your sons at our QI school make sure at least to know when you go to school you don't go once in a while to talk to them and ask how they're doing probably they're afraid of talking to the school council or the teachers and they feel like QI was a parent you're the first person they can talk to so let's create that notion as parents even as society to make men feel safe it is very okay to not be okay I advise please open up get someone you can confide in get a friend get a relative get a professional I'm a psychologist I believe in my number after this you can talk to me I will help you I will be with you and work with you the journey of recovery and healing don't feel alone you're not alone I need you Kenya needs you the world needs you your parents needs you the people in your close family need you so do not feel like hope is lost don't feel waterless don't feel hopeless there is a solution to everything nothing is permanent nothing is permanent to say the fact that you are alive today means that God still has a purpose for you there is still a plan for you it's not the end don't give yourself too much pressure probably you're watching me and you don't have plans for volunteering for your partner for your wife for your spouse for your girlfriend and your a man don't give yourself too much pressure talk to your partner it is very okay if they do not understand you then that is not the kind of person you need to be with change the people around you exactly do you think we can change the notion in man's head if I can put it there in the you know the perception that men have because also toxic masculinity is ingrained in them because that's how they've been raised I'm a man I can't do this I can't open up as much as we can create that safe space can we break you know break into that notion and remove it completely yes we can but it starts by you as Stephanie what are you doing because you know you cannot talk to each and every man in this country the men in your the people the men in your contact list the men you hung around with the men who are your friends that it doesn't matter how many men they are just one man just make them feel safe talk to them call them once in a while ask them how they are doing do they need something when I say I have a weakness in society perspective if a man calls a lady and asks for money for certain things that's a red flag but no probably they mean it they really want to give you back the money talk to that man if you're a lady talk to that man if you have a boyfriend and you're a lady talk to your man ask them how are they doing how many times let me ask this question to those who are watching you are you're watching me you're watching this right now when the BBM say when the girlfriend say how many times do you ask your man if he is okay how many times do you call your man not to ask for money not to ask for attention but to ask how your man is doing how many times ask yourself that question okay yes that's very key we really need to assess ourselves exactly in order to change this and finally as you conclude if someone is going through that face and they feel suicidal what should they do and you can close also by giving your social handle to where people can reach you that is your camera again okay now what you should do number one you should know that let me give let me encourage you if you're watching me right now face in life whereby things are not easy you're facing economic crisis you know you don't have money you're trying left right center you don't have a job you got fired things are not working out in your family things are not working out in your marriage in your relationship maybe your relationship with your kids with your close family with your nuclear family your extended family you're facing a lot of issues let me tell you something don't give up yet just as I said we need you I need you the country needs you the world needs you talk to me talk to somebody close to you someone you can confide in get a friend a friend won't judge you a friend will listen to you a friend won't share your issue with them tomorrow you'll hear it somewhere else get someone you can confide in a professional psychologist go to a hospital maybe if you don't know a psychologist or a therapist go to a hospital ask a doctor if they can refer you or recommend you as a psychologist around and they will show you they will help you don't feel alone I am here for you so in case you want to get in touch with me my number my official number is 0725 029398 I repeat 0725 029398 you can get me also on social media on Instagram at official Anthony Jenga with a H official then ANTH ONY NGE NGA official Anthony Jenga on Instagram official Anthony Jenga on TikTok Anthony Jenga on Facebook don't feel alone if you're a man watching me it is okay to not be okay but it's not okay to stay that way talk to someone it is okay for you to be emotionally drained or vulnerable but don't stay with you if you don't die alone I am here for you we need you your family needs you anyone close to you needs you and everybody even the country itself need you thank you very much Anthony you're welcome I love how you're very passionate about mental health and I follow you on your IG he does live videos very encouraging ones so you might want to follow him again official Anthony Jenga we have been speaking to him he's a counselling psychologist and a mental health advocate and we've been talking about men's mental health thank you very much for staying through this conversation and I hope that you have been inspired to change your perception against men and against toxic masculinity because men too need to open up that's about it from this fast conversation Brand Sacoa is coming up next with entrepreneurship a great conversation that you want to be a part of remember the hashtag is one the morning at Y254 channel we take a short break we'll be right back