 Good afternoon Good afternoon everybody Hello, hey, there you go now. It's on good afternoon everyone did everyone enjoy lunch Okay, is everyone ready for two final sessions for the afternoon fully energize ready to engage It's always hard when we come back from lunch. It's like that gets warm and everyone starts to get a bit sleepy Hopefully this panel session will be really engaging. So Andrew Johnson, I'll be the moderator for today's panel session I'm the manager of student enrichment here at uni sq and also the convener for the operational group for SVA. So I'm really really excited to be here and bringing a whole range of really fantastic panelists with us Now we actually have panelists joining us in person obviously and we have a few panelists joining us online. So hopefully All of that will work seamlessly and we won't have any technical problems and it will be fantastic. So We might start with some introductions from the panelists so you can get to know them So I'll start with the panelists here in the room So we can get acquainted. So Jeff Chris, would you like to tell us a little bit about yourself? Yes, it's on. Oh, there you go. Oh, thank you very much Hi, I'm Jeff. I'm the deputy vice chancellor academic at University of Canberra Worked at a few universities Have actually been passionate about student voice And I know behind me up here on the screen. There's a couple of my colleagues up there who I've been involved with for a number of years In looking at how we can actually Include the student voice in decision-making. That's something that I've been really quite passionate about Yeah, that'd be great. And you're a member of the steering group, aren't you? For the SVA. So thank you. Whoa. Yes And Bailey, so you've come to Springfield from University of Sunshine Coast Do you want to give us a bit of an intro for yourself and your journey as a student? Okay, um, my name is Bailey. Hi Before I start I'm going to explain that I have autism I get nonverbal when I get nervous And to help with that I have flashcards even for telling you who I am So So yes, I'm a second year social work student I came to do that by first applying to do marketing and event management And so I applied to university to do that went to the NDIS said hey, I need some help to go to university They said no, I spent a year at home twiddling my thumbs and decided to become a social worker instead So here I am When I started my degree there was an advertisement for a student representative to be on the disability action and inclusion plan working committee and I applied for that And I got that went to the first meeting the provice chancellor for students introduced me and I was like Oh my god, she knows my name And so that kind of set me off to being a student rep in our students as partners program I realized they didn't have a disability section under that so we made that happen um, and now I am also convener of the Students with disability leadership collective through sva Thank you very much, and we really appreciate you being part of the sva community because I know it's not your first year So thank you very much We might go online now So we have two panelists joining us online and just heads up We might have a third panelist that may drop in at some point and we'll endeavor so if you see another person jump on the screen behind you if you can just all wave your hands frantically So I can look back that'd be great um So, uh, we might move to our second student on the panel. So Jonathan So you're a phd student at manna monash And you've been quite involved in the rep space. Can you share a little bit about yourself? Yeah, sure thing. So thank you for having me here um, so I'm a phd within the department of management at monash university And I think it's important just to give an idea of my experience in my journey on how I got to where I am so my phd looks at studying processes of change and how our understanding of who we are as individuals and our identities may contribute to wider organizational institutional change And so I found that this passion came about when I worked for a bank when I was in my undergraduate degree and doing my commerce degree and I discovered a systemic wage theft in this bank and in the process of advocating for this space. I realized how the union had been systemically blocked by email from Discussing or entering the workplace from the mid mid 2000s And I'd left the bank since that was all published in the Australian financial review But it actually demonstrated to me how change is really intertwined with voice but also silencing And it was from that experience during my undergraduate course that compelled me to learn about how change comes about How we better facilitate change in more sustainable ways And so that's what put me into studying this area and my honours and now when my phd and today Outside of my phd research a lot of my volunteer time is spent Engaging in change activities in the higher education space. I'm the faculty of business and economics hdr representative I'm also the humanities and social sciences hdr representative on the university's central graduate Research committee. I'm the vice president of the Monash graduate association Which I'll talk about a bit in a moment And the hdr representative on the university's academic board as well And some of the big highlights in my time in these roles have really been building a strong hdr network And also campaigning for an increase in the rtp stipends and developing strategic capabilities with an our graduate association And so there's a lot there, but I think it's important to give an idea For our audience what that looks like and how I'm here where I am today Thanks, Jonathan, and I think facilitation of change working in the higher education Either as a student or as a staff member the one thing that we can probably be assured of is that there is always change in the sector So really keen for your insights in the space as we talk through this in sva so Also excited to introduce you to sally vanham and many of you obviously might already recognize the name So the sva symposium would not Would not feel right without her participation as sally's the reason we're really all here today So her tremendous work on the pilot project in 2019 resulted in the development of the step up principles Widely used amongst most people in the room and online and of course the establishment of this network So please sally Can you give us a little bit of an introduction for yourself? That'd be great Anyone who knows me well will know that it's very whiskey to ask me to talk about myself in the context of student voice But I so I might have to be stopped um, but I can't before I start I can't um Do any further without giving a big shout out to the people who have helped me along the way who have been so Who've been so good who've really done all the work first of all and cahill who was my first manager and then kate walsh And who really ran student voice the student voice australia pilot project And then pipe a bell who took it over when I went home back to new zealand From the university of adelaide and now the university of southern queensman with ana and her team um So I'm very excited and very honored to be here. It's so amazing to see how it's grown And it's busy how far it's come How how did it start it's a legal academic first of all in new zealand and then when I was masquerading as an australian at uts um I have always had a strong interest in the role of education and in developing citizens It's able to assimilate information and make decisions Um, and I think that if I I thought that it schools as well and universities who fail to engage Have meaningful engagement with students at all ages and decision making are really missing a huge opportunity Not only for the institutions, but for the students personal and professional development So what happened I when I first got to us I co-led a research project which was um about university student grievances And one of the big um one of the big findings of that project was a feeling of disempowerment Which lucy talked about power before but that was it was a really we actually pushed for um an ombud in the sector One of the strong the strong findings that we got out of that was that students felt disempowered They would there were student there were decisions being made about them in every way about their courses institutions, whatever Um without there being consultant Consulted so then at ucs for my since I went on to become chair of academic board And we had eight students on academic board and I found it really hard to engage them Um, they didn't really know what they were doing there and um, they just wasn't a culture of they having meaningful engagement Was more about their CVs. I think and then I went on to university council and um, it became but confusing for everybody else who I was actually representing on council because I helped I work with the students as well Getting their voices heard um In my career attended lots and lots of conferences Which where the discussion the focus is all about students and it used to be that there was barely a student in sight um, so I basically It started me thinking how could we do it better? Um, it's such an important research resource and we're missing such a huge opportunity To engage students for everyone's benefit. I heard there was a lot going on overseas um with sparks and with um Sparks and in england with the end spot in ireland with a national student engagement project in ireland and even wise wales In the european student union. This has been talked about before So I applied for I've been very lucky with the old theater part of oral team Funding I applied for got funding to look at what was happening overseas in terms of student voice student the engagement of student voice in institutional decision making um, so I developed a network with all of those people and and then looked at australia where nothing much was happening um, I think the university of western australia the guild seemed to be the most active but that was about all So then my report on this project led to um, my being ordered national senior teaching fellowship Which enabled me with the wonderful and car hall to conduct a series of forums around australia And through that after that we developed the step-up principles for student engagement, which you would all know about Um, we launched have I run out of time yet? This is all great stuff We launched the principles at a symposium at my university at UTS And there was so many people there. It was just amazing and this was the same with the forum It was like as I kept saying this is an idea This time has come in australia because there was so much interest and shelly and jeff would remember this from those days um The the forums that I conducted around australia to develop the principles Had a huge a wide range of everyone students Swaring to senior managers professional staff academics and really amazing dialogue and that was the same at the symposium Disappoint when I first started talking about running these forums with everybody Someone said oh, why don't you have separate ones with students because the students might be a bit scared to talk up With every would their senior managers and things there and there was absolutely none of that Wasn't they were the most amazing experiences from me and everyone else who was there? I think so then um We launched the principles at the symposium. There was a huge turnout and um, there was a big push there to go further like that's not just you'll do your report And that'll be it as happens a lot as we know So it was really to push from students and all university personnel that um encouraged us to start the um The student voice australia pilot I'm getting it together was not easy as you can imagine because it was we asked the university to chip in um, and so that was a major Um, we're just getting the legal side of it done the sign off But it was we launched it. I employed kate walsh the wonderful kate walsh who really ran it to be manager Totally ran it to be the manager. It's great. Hi kate. Hi, sir. She's still here. Um, and um Yeah, so it's really Going on from there I don't think do I need to say any more? No, I am I going to be asked later about what happened when I came back to New Zealand Yeah, there'll be lots of questions coming. So that was fantastic. Thank you very much For that and and during your presentation. We actually had our final panelist join us. So Um, and you referenced her in your speech. So shelly you were Well, it seems like not too long ago at uni sq. But um, you've moved on to other things I won't say bigger and better things but other things. Would you like to do a quick introduction for yourself? Please Thank you so much. Can you hear me? Okay Yes, we can. Okay fantastic Uh, you could hear me and then I got muted somehow. I unmuted myself again. Um, I am Thrilled to be virtually here at uh, university of southern Queensland So the accent you're hearing is Canadian But I'm proud to say that I am a dual citizen and I always like to joke that I can't then accidentally become a politician And um, it was university of southern Queensland. Um, how I ended up coming on this journey. So In 2007 I came for what was to be a one-year academic exchange to teach for the university of southern Queensland and Right away and definitely within six months. Um, I was hooked and fully an australian at heart And I said to my husband and kids I don't think I want to go back and they said we don't either and we've been here ever since um, and uh, then I went after that first year I went to Bond University for eight and a half years And then I came back to university of southern Queensland for four years And now I am at the University of New England and I'm the executive principal student experience and I've been here for two and a bit years and um, This is my portfolio. This is my home. This is my wheelhouse I love I think it's the best job in the world getting to think and plan and do all day For the for the best of students together with students and for student experience So, um, I'll stop the introduction, but I just want to tell you one story about student voice So this was um back to the year 2000 and I was doing my phd and um, so in north america the model was and and mostly still is It's a very long process because it's both a course base and research base And so it was 2000 And I thought what the heck am I doing because I was teaching full-time. I had research Contracts and my daughter was two years old and my son was two months old when I started So my husband would meet me outside of my classes with my baby son so that I could nurse him I went to a conference in chicago and this was a disability advocacy conference And I went there and I'd already had my um thesis research approved So I'd written my proposal My committee was happy with it and what I was doing was studying disability studies students Studying online and this was in 2000 and this wasn't people who were studying through say the Hadley school for the blind This was they'd be the sole blind or visually impaired learner in online learning at various universities And mostly not even their educator knew that they were blind And um, so I was going to study the disability study students I went to this conference and the opening address was nothing about us without us And so I went to my session for my presentation and I said, um, I'm not going to present on what I was going to present on What I need is your help I want to go back and tell my committee that I'm not going to do the research that they've approved I want to study blind online learners themselves not disability study students for blind people themselves And this story and it worked. Um, I actually um, it worked really well because one of the people in the audience was the research director for the Louisiana center for the blind and he said If you'll start with blind learners will fund you So it was it was a dream come true I stand up all night and slid a proposal under his hotel room door and the rest was history But um, so this was a story just to say that each one of us can make a commitment To voice and to participation and to partnership and carry forward with that I think thank you very much for that, Shelley And thank you for all of the panelists for introduction. So the format for this Um, we've got some questions that will ask the the panelists individually Um, if you have any questions during any of um today's session If you'd like to either think of them if you're in the room Or you can pop them on the padlet for those that are online or if you've got a device in front of you Um, and the pad link will be in the chat So we'll jump into the first questions. Jeff. Um, I'm going to ask you the first question So you've been a great champion for the space for quite some time And you've probably seen a lot of changes over the last 10 years What what do you think where do you think we're headed in the next 10 years? What's the future for this space? Uh, yeah easy question. Um, the Look, I think there's been a huge look the number of people here in this room. I think is telling us about the interest but also the importance That's been put on Yes, okay. Um, so to me, that's really positive because if this had been 10 years ago Um, we wouldn't have we wouldn't have had this many people in the room And we wouldn't have had the diversity of people in the room that we have We wouldn't have the diversity of the voices that we are we are currently getting so I think that's changed So I'm going to start with a positive and then talk about Where I think we still need to go on this journey And I'm actually going to pick an example from my own university, right just to talk about so in terms of Students in decision-making and it's really interesting this morning because I don't want to go on a tangent but this whole issue of student engagement student feedback But actually student voice and decision-making. I think we need to actually continue to look at that And understand the difference Between all those things, right because they're they're quite they're all important. They're all important equally important But they're all different All right, and I guess the thing that I was really passionate about was student voice in decision-making And that's going to bring up the issue of which were what decisions what level of decisions How are students involved in decision-making? How is their voice heard at the table? Especially when there'd be a lot of other voices at the table as well So I'll give you just one really small example So one of the things I tried to do at UC where University of Canberra where I am at the moment Was to have student voice in Decisions we made around the use of spaces Around the campus, right? So this is basically working with the states with campus estates, right? And I said well, we need to have a student voice. So I mean on on those decisions that we make and There was a very simple request that came through from students who were part of an lgbtiq plus community on campus And it was we would like a safe space On campus and they had already worked out where they thought that space should be And I don't know what it's like in many of your universities, but in a number of the universities I've been at whether it's a a women's room a prayer room or a Interfaith room or a muslim prayer room or an lgbtiq plus space They're usually tucked away somewhere in a space that nobody wants And estates can't think of what else it can do with it. So therefore they say oh, that's fine Let's give it to them because that that'll be fine. We can do that so what What these what the lgbtiq plus community students had said is There's a space that's not being utilized properly in the main courtyard in the main part of the the university We think that would be a good space for us it needed some refurbishment and So I said, okay, I'll I'll take that to exec Campus estates can put up something. Oh, I'm happy to be the sponsor Because all the projects had to have a sponsor, right? So they they had to find a sponsor to do that. And I was happy to do that What really fascinated me Was when it got around the table with the other decision makers First of all, they didn't see the point of having students at the table To advocate or to talk about this. They said no, you're the executive sponsor You come and talk about it. And I said, well, how can I because I'm not part of that community I'm happy. I'm an ally and I'm happy to work with them and and help them with this But it's not my voice, right? I'm happy to have a voice, but I'm not the voice and so that was and and this went on for quite a few months with this then we finally got agreement on it and Then it was went through the planning phase and the students were involved in that So that that was good. They were involved in the planning What what would it look like what the facilities would be or the rest of it? That was fine And then came up an issue of suddenly someone said, oh the bathrooms need refurbishing In this area and we need to have bathrooms that are appropriate For the people who are going to be occupying in this. Oh, suddenly the cost was doubled What it was originally and then it was oh, actually we can't do that because that's double the cost Can we find somewhere else? Tucked away in a corner somewhere else in the remote part of the the campus and I bring this up not to shame my university but just to talk about Why I think first of all the student voice is important But actually I think the students also need allies As well to help them to make sure that their voice is heard because this is where I'm getting I know I'm going to take a bit of time in but this is where I'm getting about What's changed and what hasn't changed? I think what's changed is we say we'll listen to the student voice What I haven't seen totally change yet is what we do about those voices And how those voices are actually incorporated into decision making and they're taken seriously in the decision making That's the bit that I think is still a journey for us. So I'll stop there Now that was really good. Um And I think Yeah, those those small steps and making those advocates and and I think a testament for who's in this room is Is a really good sign of what's to come. So thank you very much. Um, we have next question is for sally I'm just trying to get my video on again Hang on Well sally if you can hear me, sorry, I'm just trying to start my video. Oh, there we go. Yeah So obviously joining us from new zealand. Um, so we're really keen to Find out about any of the kind of current projects that you might be working on given your history in this space So is there anything interesting that you can unveil or or tell us about? Well, it has been really interesting because in march 2020 When just as covet was closing in I think the university's australia conference somebody had coven and it was the leader. Oh, no, it's here And um, I packed my bags and came home to new zealand for seeing lockdowns and things and um After must have been after the first I'd had quite a lot to do with the With new the new zealand sector during student voice australia development a lot of new zealanders had been over the Sheila from who's head of the academic quality agency and the national the new zealand union of students associations had been over to the symposiums and things that we ran and when I after the First flash of covid was over. I got contacted by the ministry of education here who said that the minister of education Who was then out by minister who was out who now is our prime minister? Maybe only for another day sadly Um, he was very keen on pushing student voice And so he asked if the ministry asked if I'd work with them on and the and the sector agencies and the students associations to To develop a framework that we had along the lines, but obviously within the new zealand context For student for the engagement of student voice So I had a really interesting time working with fantastic student leaders some of whom may be there and Alice mando who had just developed the national the national disabled students association. He was great and other Obviously student leaders moe Pacifica etc. And we um Yeah, so I had I worked with them first of all on the development of what became faria narau That was talked about that one of the sessions before And that Faria narau was the it was designed as a flax bush You may have seen it a few of them if anyone has if anyone looks at the new zealand union of students association website You'll see it from student voice to student engagement to partnership And it sets out for um principles under which um partnership has been developed so And that was really driven by the ministry Hosted that that process but it was driven by the student leaders really and it was it was Fantastic and it was great for me to come back right into that new zealand and then that carried on and we took Faria narau out into the sector and had Forums with the institutions with the providers with sector agencies And obviously with the student bodies And it was all it was it was all a great experience. Um people were so positive It was picked up first of all by Tifu Kenner, which is that was the new body then created As a combination of all at what equivalent of tapes the polytechs in new zealand I think they were the first to doctors and then there was a lot after we'd finished doing that I was contacted by other universities like linkin and massi and vittoria university my old alma mater in willington and um about Developing, you know, what what they could do the student voice at the university at their um at their institutions um so Carrying on from that We now have vittoria university. Wellington has joined. That's why we've become it's become you've become Student voice australia, which is great And there was a lot of and there was a lot of movement a lot of a lot happening Probably the students from new zealand in the audience would be able to fill in More than I can on that as well Um, the other thing that happened was that I was approached by texas early on the year It's probably a bit controversial. I'm going to mention it anyway to um to run a webinar for senior managers on the engagement of student voice in the In the responding to and preventing sexual harassment and sexual assault on university campuses Um, I won't go into that any further But that was another bit of work that I've done in the student voice in the student voice space Um, it's very exciting that the university of southern Queensland has now taken over pipe about did a great job at laid when I left And now the university of southern Queensland. I'm very happy that they um have they Have embraced it and are running towards student voice australia. Yeah, australia It's uh, it's really good to know that we've got a such a huge advocate over the over the ditch So and thank you very much to ana obviously who is our sva coordinator here at He's doing a fantastic job. So Um, we uh, we're going to go to some questions to one of our students So jonathan, I've got a question for yourself and I'm going to try and get this name Todd arrived in my in my question because quite long So would you mind sharing more about the process of being part of the senate education and employment legislative committees inquiry into the education and other legislation amendment Did I get that right? um And how did you end up representing monash at obviously a very um public hearing? Because I think some students in the audience that really work in that are all keen to look into that because the space might benefit from that Yeah, thanks to that and I I think it's a really interesting question Although I must confess many of my friends find it quite a boring story. So hopefully it's not too boring for the audience but I think It did reveal some really interesting lessons and a lot of my network really appreciate it as well so The monash graduate association made a submission to the committee's inquiry And in the lead up to that The association was invited to provide a public testimony of sorts To help the senators understand in essence the impact of indexation on hex debt And what it was doing to both current and former students in this cost of living crisis It's a little boring in the sense that the inquiry was in sydney my phd fieldwork is in sydney So originally from melbourne So instead of flying someone up for a hotel and aeroplane costs, which is an uber for me just to go down So that's the boring bit But the outcome of that was an unfortunate move by the government Not to change anything and to leave it as is and the bill failed But it was really interesting to I guess see how Uh, it was an opportunity for students to really get to the government and demonstrate the real life situations of how government decisions Implicate both tertiary education institutions as well as the stakeholders within them I found that during our campaign for the increase to the rtp stipend In a lot of the universities a lot of the focus during change from a student perspective is on the conversation behind closed doors within tertiary institutions and the Potentially negative aspect of that is that the university is in a neoliberal society a very clever at times In closing off because the issue may transcend their individual Institution and it may be a government problem We can't do anything about it. It's the government and that's the best we can do And so what really taught a lot of the students that I speak with about this is that if you are an Australian citizen It's really important to consider your constitutional right as well as arguably Obligation to engage with your network change in both the democratic sense with your members of parliament But also recognizing that the institutions at a university level in Australia are very clearly regulated by government and changes in government Do have clear changes for universities as we're seeing constantly in the current circumstances But it isn't just about being an Australian citizen It's also about recognizing your citizenship within the university itself So if you're a student you are in my view a stakeholder in that university And you do have the right and obligation to partake in those very similar democratic attitudes and behaviors And your voice no matter who you are domestic or international or otherwise Still have the right to speak up and if the universities decide to silence you It is always your option or choice not to be silenced And so I think we're very privileged to be in a democratic country, but our universities Fundamentally, I would believe Democratic as well. They don't always act like it, but I think it is fundamental to the nature of society So I guess that's a bit of a long-winded way of saying it's a pity the building passed Can only try No, that's fantastic and that concept of a citizen of the university is a really interesting one to probably unpack You know as individuals as we go back into our own organizations as practitioners or even as a student to understand what that means So thank you Question now for Bailey So In in some of the sessions in SVA you've referred to yourself as not being a quiet voice So reflecting on your experience starting and leading the students with disabilities leadership collective through the SVA What advice would you give to students who represent quieter voices? I'm gonna Kind of ignore a little bit of that question with the the SVA part because I think that is still kind of getting up and running Um, and I can answer the question much better if I use my time at university and sorry to the room um So I kind of remember when I said that and And the thought that I was having at the time was that I feel like I'm constantly talking I don't shut up Um when I'm in meetings, I'm like things will come up and I'll say well actually no You can't do that because it's not going to be accessible Or you can't do that because it's going to be transphobic or you can't do that because you know and it's it's just seems to be constant um but I despite being obnoxious at times definitely Um and stubborn for sure. I um, I don't feel like anybody's paying attention half the time Um, certainly not the people that need to be so So, yeah, I think I'm going to turn that around a little bit and say well Yeah, I can be shouting and I do sometimes quite loudly and obnoxiously um but I think we have a real power problem in our universities um So, yeah, we need to work on that a little bit So what was the second part of the question again? So what advice would you give to the advice? Yeah, so The advice bit would be to I don't know. I don't know. I don't have any advice really I'm flying by the seat of my pants here most of the time And I think that's probably it is that we are all flying by the seat of our pants If we knew how to do this we would have done this You know decades ago And that's probably the thing none of us. I think probably know how to do this, right? That's why we're here. We're trying to learn So be careful with yourselves be gentle with yourselves to the ones Who are fighting the good fighter students in the room? And to the others I know we heard four really good words this morning But I've always had another four words in mind and that's don't be a dick Um at the end of the day like when you're in those meetings when you when you're talking about Minority student groups etc. Just don't be a dick like you know We're human we deserve to be treated like that I think that's words to live by for for life, right? I think that's a gem if everyone just writes that down as one piece of information you take back from this conference that would be amazing um Shelly might go back online and a question for you Shelly and Realizing we only have 15 minutes. We do have some other questions, but probably take some padlet questions if we have some after this one um So Shelly, uh, so you're 30 years into your academic and professional career What would you say to practitioners who are only just starting? What are some kind of tips to maintain balance in you know, whether it's their leadership roles or their or their staff roles? Yeah, what some advice for those practitioners are starting out Thank you so much. Um, I am actually going to take Bailey's a patron Bailey's book and Slightly tweak the question knowing that we're we're running short of time and I do have some advice so it is 30 years of experience and advice, but I'd like to tweak this channel this into how to get exec to listen I am very fortunate right now to be on executive and I try not to be a dick and And here is what I've learned and um, I learned this First and foremost through bond university where I've had the highest success in really working Hand in hand with the student leaders So a lot of this comes from what worked Just before I get to that though, I want to let you know what I'm working on right now And what many of us are working on right now So the government the new government of australia Turned the job ready graduates element of the legislation of the 50 completion rule So many of you will have known about this and so the stick was on the students. It said if you can't Complete 50 percent of your units once you've attempted 50 percent of your units We're going to take away your csp funding So the stick was on the students the new government came in and said we're going to take that out of legislation And instead we're going to give the stick to the universities So now universities a new consultation paper came out and so we're all now busily Hopefully doing it hand in hand with our students, which is what we're doing at un e But building a student support policy and a student support plan Which says these are the ways that we identify our students who are struggling And these are the supports that we make available to them to make sure that students are successful And the government as I was saying the stick Is that in if you haven't if you can't prove that you've bent over backwards to support The students that you've enrolled then there's close to a 20 000 fine per student to the universities So the first way to make your executive listen is to put something In for something to be in policy So to align what you want to happen with what the university has to do because it's a government Legislation or policy and it's it's about money. It's about the budget. But here's so here's five more pieces of advice for me number one is Remember balance and so again as Bailey said be gentle with yourselves So before I get to how to get executive to listen Prioritize your studies Make sure that you are getting what you need to get out of this equation And and that you are making sure about what's in it for me. So before I get to the other advice keep that first and foremost Know your boundaries and put yourself first Second is focus. So, you know, like with the 3 m t the three minute thesis or the elevator pitch or what have you Have a strong narrative Know what it is and focus it in so make sure you've got your key point And don't let people get distracted Don't distract yourself by going off on tangents stay very focused and zoomed in on what it is that you want to achieve What you want to get out of it the third point is that there's power in numbers So even if it's just your student association or your student council or whatever you call yourselves That's not enough to make the executive listen What you need to do is show a rigorous methodology about how you have Canvassed the student voices and you're bringing together a powerful student voice So have you had focus groups? Did you do a survey? Did you do a person on the street type of Canvassing? So, how do you know that this is what your student body wants and that they're behind what it is that you want to do The fourth thing is to do that through a research methodology. So decide again, is it focus groups? Is it a survey? Is it and how have you interpreted those results to bring them forward so that you're bringing your forward Your message saying this is what we want and this is how we know that we want it This is the power of the people and the fifth is to be part of the solution so making sure It it doesn't work as well when the executive are hearing, you know, there's a town hall and people are complaining about We're unhappy about online invigilation. We're unhappy about the assessment feedback. We're unhappy about the What are we going to do about it? What are your recommendations for change and how are the students going to be part of it? so as I mentioned part of The success that I had was at bond university and one of the things that we did The students themselves said We feel that there's not enough closing the loop for example on the student evaluation of courses and teaching So, you know those surveys that you fill out at the end of every trimester at the end of every unit or course that you've completed And you go, where did that go just off into the ether? How come nobody ever listens and nothing ever changes? So they said we want this to change. We want to know what people are doing with our feedback and so We work together and they said the first thing that they needed to do is make sure that all the students were filling out as much as possible All the students are filling out those surveys and then we're closing the loop on it So we worked hand in hand and it was the students themselves who recommended and advocated and lobbied for the changes And we ended up with 95 completion rate of those surveys And on the top on the learning moderation management site. So on every unit site There was a clause that said here's what you said. Here's what we did Here's what we've changed about this unit from your feedback So there's a real success story about the way in which we can make changes together in partnership with students that make executives stand up and listen Thank you. Perfect. Thank you very much. Shelly We've got some time for some questions from the audience. So we might start online With the padlock questions Thank you very much. Thank you very much For the panel and I am really sad that we only dedicated one hour to this. It's a lesson learned on my behalf Maybe next year we'll extend this we have quite amazing questions online and I I do encourage everyone to look at the padlock at the later date and at least to internalize the questions or even started conversation as well and I Might we might have time only for one, but we'll see how we go. So I'll read So the title is loud versus quiet voices and so it starts with With this We all know there is a growing diversity in student cohorts One challenge to allowing everyone to have their say is that some students or student groups are excessively vocal in the giving their opinions How can a balance be struck in allowing all students to speak also Limiting those who might try to dominate or even monopolize the various forums We might try to get a practitioner's response and a student's response. Is anyone want to wrap A response in 30 seconds for that Jonathan I think in just really brief 30 seconds um I think it's about valuing each voice But I've I've personally never raised my voice And I think it's important that people come together as collaborators on challenges rather than It is us and them and that is particularly why so many challenges that perpetuated within our tertiary systems has been around Collectives against collectives when in fact we are all working together and I think this argument around diversity is Is sometimes overheated around identities of individuals when in fact we we do have differences But it's differences that we value rather than the diversity explicitly as being An issue that needs to be fixed and Ah, gosh in 30 seconds. It's a lot harder for me to say that It's I really fundamentally don't think we need to raise our voices We can all speak and all share experiences without necessarily silencing others and the quieter voices have to be uplifted at times and the loud voices have to be brought down At times without necessarily silencing That's my only perspective in being in very heated discussions on campus But still always positive outcomes because it's unconditional positive regard for each individual rather than about whose right or wrong Perfect. Thanks, Jonathan. Any of our practitioners or Bailey any other comments on that? Oh, shelly's hands up Can I give you just one um one quick strategy that I like to use? Is a buddy system so always making sure that there's um at least two students Together and that if if you know that somebody is is quieter and still waters run deep It's to have a buddy system and so that the other person will advocate Um, and the person will say, you know, I've noticed that this person Or that will nudge them and say to them that they're quiet or they'll advocate for them to come forward This works. Um, even when it's not a quiet voice, but in it in a teamwork or a group work situation Pairing people up so that if they notice their buddy hasn't talked for a while They'll invite them forward to do so Thanks, shelly might have time for one more question. I don't know from maybe from anyone from the audience in here Oh Lucy Trinette's going to throw that microphone for you. No I was reflecting as we listened that there's a lot of progress being made in individual institutions or pockets within individual institutions But as a sector the discussions we're having haven't shifted I've been out of academia for three years and we're having the same conversations three years on as I was having when I started 15 years ago Do we pay students? How do we integrate what they say? How do we get them to you know get in the room and be heard and I'm interested to hear the panels Particularly I think maybe Bailey and Shelly Um, what's the kick up the bum that our sector collectively needs To really shift the paradigm away from what we've been banging on about for 20 years Stop the tokenistic bullshit So often we have like a disabled person in the room or a trans. I'm trans. I'm gay. I'm disabled I am first nations woman um So often we have that one person in the room and it's a token. That's it That person is given zero power At all there's nothing they're not listened to they're spoken over It's there to tick a box to say hey, we had the undergrad rep on the panel Hey, we had the indigenous person on the panel. We had the disabled person on the panel Unlike the token Crip in every room I'm in um Stop it Actually listen to the people that are speaking and screaming and saying hey, this is what we need To succeed. This is why we're here. We're trying to do great things and be great things and Live our dreams out and you guys are stomping all over it. Stop it Thank you very much. Shelly anything to add on that? Wow No, I I think you know, um In the in the phrasing of the question and in Bailey's I can't go past Bailey's don't be a dick, but how do we get people not to be a dick? um and I I just I look at the the Successful lobbying movement and I I don't know I can't go past You know, it's very sobering um watching the news today and the um And the referendum and and the results coming through and I don't know. It's just hard to hard to answer your question with a whole lot of hope about society not being a dick um To reinforce what was um being said. I think you know something with my research into seeing beyond blindness um One of the things that really stuck out to me is um, okay So you brought um a blind person on to the committee. Congratulations. You've met one blind person You know, it doesn't mean it just what Bailey was saying So I I think it comes back to what we heard earlier from Jonathan and others about being a citizen and not being bystanders and that It takes all of us. Um, and that when you look at the movements that have um progressed um cultures and understanding and and brought greater awareness and participation and contribution It's when people have actively come together and been really focused on the change that they want to see and then being part of that change Yep, Jeff Just really quickly. Um, I think one of the things and this is just being very practical and very realistic, right? I think if um You don't have the inherent power yourself you need advocates or allies Who have who for whatever reason? Currently are perceived to hold that power And so you need to partner up You need to partner up with someone who does have the power and again that may not be the long-term solution It may not be the best solution But it's the way in which you'll get things done I'm sorry. Just a point. You're right. No. No. I say I do talk a lot. No, that's okay Before we kind of move on. I do just want to say like I have said a lot of things um in the last hour but I The people that I work with are great people And I'm fairly certain that nobody would be in this room if they didn't care um, so even with all the things that I've said I do want to acknowledge that um As angry as I get and as frustrated as I get and as as much as I swear um at everything I do also see um Beautiful souls. Yeah in each and every one of you. Um, and I do appreciate all of that Um, I really want to not do a but but there's a little bit of a but um Being a nice person isn't enough at the end of the day, you know You can be the greatest nicest person But at the end of the day, we also need you to kind of do your job and help us out a little bit because we're really struggling But keep the beautiful because I like that too. That's really awesome Thank you. No, that was a really lovely point to end on And if we can all go out, you know back to our institutions and be advocates and and find the people that have the power to make the Change, you know, I think that's what we're all here for so Thank you to to everybody from the panel those that joined us online and and those in person I really appreciate your openness and your honesty and your you're well thought through answers. I think hopefully people have Got something out of the today's session We are going to move on to the final session for today, which is the explorative workshop So we'll engage those uh, those brains again for the last session for the day So those who are with us online, there'll be The next zoom session that you'll need to join in the program And they're just going to be shared in the link as well I believe from ana And for those in person will be here So if you want to take a quick break if you need to go to the bathroom if you're in person And uh, congratulate the panel