 I was sitting here minding my own business. It's what I was doing, minding my own business. And I look up and I see a response video. You know, everybody wants to call me a Calvinist. And then so I see this one guy say that, what do you say I was? I, no, I was Calvinist-y, I smelled Calvinist-y or something like, I don't know, something like that or whatever. But I said, you know, I'm gonna go ahead and try to ignore him, but then he made a video. Made a video, not so much saying that I was a Calvinist, but he wanted to kinda deal with the tennis of Calvinism and that where I might be wrong. Now it's possible. It is possible, as a matter of fact, I've said before that being a smart Christian means that you have to recognize what you don't know and you lean even heavier on the scriptures. And it makes you kinda go back and look at the scriptures and make sure that what you say is so or what you might, what might not be so in your thought it can be corrected. And so you wanna be humble about that. And I did my best to be humble about it. I did my very best to be humble about it. I wanted to kinda just, you know, maybe he'll go away. Maybe he'll leave me alone, but no, he wouldn't leave me alone. Would not leave me alone, wants to keep messing with me. And I said, you know what? That's fine. You wanna mess with me? Come on, please, let's y'all walk. Come on over. Then you're gonna live back. You walk over, but you're limping back. Don't let the gray hair fool you. I ain't no easier way. So I just wanna, without further ado, I wanna bring on Mr. Seiko Woods who disagrees with two of my tennis. Seiko, how are you doing, sir? Doing good. What's going on, brother? Wonderful, as we said before, how good it is for two bald brothers to dwell together in unity. And so we have that. I was hoping that when you came in, you had your hat off. I was gonna tell you to take your hat off in my place. I'm so glad that's what happened. I only did that. I only did that because I didn't feel like wearing it now because of what you think about me. Okay, listen, that's cool too. That's cool too. I was gonna mute your mic until you did. Now, real quick, I don't see you on my end. I see you on my device. So remember, you know what I'm saying? I mean, I could see you on my phone, but I don't see you on my end of the E-cam. I don't know what that is. I don't, that might be in a software issue because it used to be that you could. I don't know what the deal is, but as I'm looking at it- I'll bring it over again then. Yeah, I'll bring it over again. We're good on both. And so whatever I see here is what they see here. And so as they, so we don't have to worry about it. As they say, don't worry about the mule going blind, just load the wagon. So you don't have to worry about nothing. Just sit there and let me have my way with you. That's what I'm saying. All right, let's get it. But in all seriousness, guys, people have been asking, am I Calvinist over and over? And there are two issues that I disagree with Calvinism. Now, again, I'm not one of these people, because I think there are a lot of people out there that think that Calvinist is a heresy. Calvinism, and if you think that Calvinism is heresy, then you're just being, you're biblically immature. You've got some growing to do because the issue with Calvinism versus those who aren't Calvinists, it's not an issue of how we come, I mean, how to become safe. That's not the issue. It's the mechanism leading up to it. In other words, who is preemptiveness? Who's causing it? Is it man's desire? Is it man's wanting to choose? Or does God take the first step? Now, let me say this, because I want to make sure that I'm kind of clear on this. I have stated in the past that I believe that mankind can choose God. Now, notice what I did not say. I did not say that mankind will choose God. I think there's a big difference. I think that in history, now I'm looking at some passage tuning and of course Seiko will give me his, that there are passages that demonstrate that mankind can choose just not consistently. And so I believe that ultimately every, let me get this straight guys, everybody that comes to Christ has done so because of a work of God first that starts off man's choice. God chooses, then man chooses. But the issue that I take with this issue of total depravity is how depraved a man is. And so I just want to put that out. I believe that if it's possible that both can be true to some degree, I think I mean to show that. And so I want to go ahead and give the floor over to Seiko, but he's got some points to make in terms of where I'm wrong. And of course, the way we're going to do this guys, we'll be going back and forth. This is not a formal debate. We're not upset at each other. Although, although Seiko is probably the only person out there in YouTube's fear that I have no problem with hurling insults at. And so he's the only one. So I have to deal with this first. Let me just deal with this. So that Seiko won't have to deal with this. Jesus Christ is Lord 9-1-1, wicked how? And I want you all to be clear. I want you to understand something. And you say so because simply you just, you say so because either it's a heart issue or head issue with you, but it's not a biblical issue. Meaning that Calvinists believe that you must place your faith in Christ. You believe if you're a Christian that you must place your faith in Christ. No difference. The issue is, does God work in them ahead of time and cause them to do so or not? Both believe that you must make a profession of faith in Christ. You believe the same thing. So how is that wicked? Stop being babes or immature when it comes to this thing. Now, we're not gonna ban you, but if you're gonna go throughout this live stream saying those things, they will ban you. Oh, by the way, moderators, there's another group of people that you have to ban also. Well, two groups, I'm sorry. Obviously the Hebrews like ban is always in play. But secondly, in our discussion between myself and Mr. Woods, depending upon who's right and who's wrong, if you, moderators, if you find someone disagreeing with me and agreeing with Seiko, please ban them for good. All right, that's- So basically in the words of Michael Jackson on The Wiz, you can't win, right? You like this, like the Cowboys fans. You can't win. You can't win, okay? All right, the deck is stacked. The deck is stacked. The deck is stacked. So anyway, go ahead and say, I'm sorry. Yo, so I'm glad you said that. I'm glad you laid out all of the housekeeping rules and a few disclaimers. I'm pretty sure they're gonna be people that are gonna watch this stream if not watching it now and if not watching it later. That's going to probably believe or think that this is bad blood. There is no bad blood. We just have a disagreement on two of the five. And I believe that this is something that is important. I believe it is a good thing for us to have this discussion because I think it would accomplish two things. Number one, it'll accomplish that people can disagree if we can have a public discussion, public dialogue and not walk away with it being any hard feelings or any type of animosity. Number two, it also shows us that we desire to hold to what the word of God teaches and believes. And I believe that that sets a precedent and an example for us to follow. So I know a lot of people that have been waiting for this to go down. I've been waiting for it. I was waiting for you to come on out of your hiding spot, sir. Come on, Clayton. Come on. Come on over here. Come on over here when it's your walk. Come on over. Then you're gonna limp back. You walk over when you're limping back. Don't let the gray hair fool you. I ain't no way. I know you had to get your little furnishing, your little background set up and everything. I told Corey that it looks like he's sweating like he's in court, but he said that's not it. He said it's the lighting. OK, no problem. It is what it is. It's holy ocean. It's what it is. Yeah, he says the holy ghost, holy spirit. OK, fine, whatever. But it looked like he had brothers sweating in court. It looked like he had been in family court. My normal shine. So anyway, so what brings us here, we wanted to talk about the doctrines of grace, i.e. tulip, i.e. Cavanism. And again, you mentioned about the two of the five points that we disagree with, which is number one, total depravity, and then also limited atonement, which would be the third one out of the five. So I want people to understand what my position is. Number one, I believe that the Word of God is the final authority. I do not have my own personal opinion regarding salvation. What I mean by that is, is that if the scriptures teach a particular doctrine, and I'm not talking about this one verse or one passage, and we just write on that, no. I believe in the totality of scripture, I believe that the Word of God speaks when it comes to issues of faith, life, and practice. We can glean from certain principles. But if God says that he has done something, then I hold to that. And I hold to its literal grammatical historical context and interpretation. And so I believe that man, apart from the saving grace and work and power of God, cannot save himself. Even on his best day, he cannot. Even if he wanted to, he could not because his nature has been tainted with sin. It has been through and through with sin. It does not mean he's going to do everything that he could do, but it does mean that since Adam failed in the Garden of Genesis 3, that Adam, being our federal head, Romans 5-12, when he sinned, we all sinned because we were in Adam. And until or unless, God invades the human soul. And until or unless, God makes man alive to respond to divine stimuli, then he would never respond because he is dead. If we're going to say what man is, and if we look at the autopsy of man, spiritually speaking, but God uses in his word, he gives us physical examples on how man is apart from the saving grace of God. He's dead in trespasses and sins. He's hostile to the things of God. He's a hater of God. He's a slave to sin and foreign to righteousness. He cannot do anything good, not even when I'm talking about from a salvific standpoint. Yes, a sinner can walk a person across the street, but that is not going to pass when it comes time to stand before a thrice holy God and give an account for the deeds that they have done in his body. That has nothing to do with God choosing to save him because of any good thing that he may have done, humanly speaking, it has everything to do with what did he do with his son? And if he rejects, if he rejects the free gift of salvation, it's because his nature has not been changed. And if his nature has not been changed, then his will has not been changed because the will is in concert with what man's nature is. And man's nature is corrupt. Man's nature is foreign to the things of God. And until again, or unless God saves that soul, man will only do what's in his nature. And that is sin. Okay, and so now, and most of what you said, I agree with. I don't think that there's a person on the planet that can attribute their salvation to themselves. The issue is, and maybe it has to do a lot with the word dead, when we say dead in our trespasses and sin and so forth, because I've got something, I've got a question. I'm gonna let you go to a couple of your scriptures, but I've got a question that I've gotta ask and I'm yet to get someone to answer this. But I'll hold off on that particular question because you may answer it in your scriptures. Okay. So we can go to Genesis 1, 27. We know that the Bible says that God, man in his own image and the image of God he created in male and female. He created man in his own image and in his own likeness. So man was created perfect. There was no sin in man. And it shows us also that even in a perfect environment, like an Eden, man would never be as perfect as God. That's for me, I believe that that is a key component and a reality that we must grapple and face. That even though God created man perfect without sin and placed him in a perfect environment, man, which is Adam, chose to rebel. Man chose to violate God's clear law which God told Adam regarding the tree of knowledge and good and evil, not to eat of the tree. When Adam chose to eat of that tree, he plunged all of mankind into sin. Therefore now, all man can do is choose to sin. Man can not choose righteousness because man is now in Adam. He is not in Christ until he is saved. So what that means is now that the nature or the image rather of man has been tainted with sin. So in Genesis 1, 27, I can't really see it on your screen because again, I'm looking at the second screen that's not on my end. So you may have to read it. I'm not really sure if you can, but yeah. So you probably need to have the read for it. 127, so God created man in his own image in the image of God. He created him, male and female. He created them. Yeah. Okay, then you go to chapter five, verse one. I'm gonna look at my other device as I read along with you on that one as well. Genesis five, verse one. To how far? Just verse one and then verse three. Genesis five, verse one and then verse three. This is the book of the generations of Adam in the day when God created man, he made him in the likeness of God. And then verse three, when Adam lived 130 years, he became the father of a son in his own likeness according to his image and named him Seth. So the difference that you see there's a change in not in the sense that man has stopped being made in the image of God, but after sinned, when man had sinned or Adam had sinned, now those that comes from his progeny are made in his image and his likeness. We still have the Imago day, but the Imago day has been tainted with sin. And so now sinners beget sinners. So we see the first murder that happened in Genesis chapter four, we see that. Cain killed Abel. We see all these sins now come out of what Adam did by choosing to rebel in the garden. And notably also, it wasn't until Adam sinned that sin came. When Eve chose to eat of the fruit, nothing happened. It was only until when Adam sinned that their eyes were open and they realized that they were naked and then they hit themselves. So when we talk about the the the privacy of man, we're not talking about that man is, he is utterly depraved, but it means that in the totality of his being, that everything, his mind, his will, his emotions, all of that has been affected and infected by sin. So when we talk, when we talk about in Genesis five, we see that there that the image has been tainted. And now Adam is begatting and Adam is having children in his own image and his own likeness. Yes, man, it's still made in the Imago day, they're still made in the image of God. But now Adam is having his own progeny, his own lineage, his own descendants now having that sin nature also in them as well too. Genesis chapter six verse five, I can turn there as well and we can read that. And I'm looking at my device so you can put it up on the screen and I'll read it once you put it up. It's there, go ahead, you go ahead and start. Okay, maybe mine is delayed, let me see. Hold on. Oh, you're talking about looking at your, okay, you're looking at the live stream. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, I thought you had your software. Yeah, I can put it up on my end here. So that way. Yes, because what I thought was, I thought you actually had a Bible to read off of. I don't know, you just depend on mine. I thought you had a Bible. No, no, no, for the record ladies and gentlemen, let me just stop this lie right here. See, that's cause the devil is a liar. He is. I thought you had a Bible. The devil is a liar. He's a liar because behind the scenes, ladies and gentlemen, this brother asked me, he said, hey man, listen, listen, man, listen, listen. You had any scripted brothers that you can give me before we get started. I can put it up on my, on my accordance. I said, yeah, Corey, I'll go ahead and do that for you. Yeah, yeah, man, you know what, you know what? Yeah, go ahead and do that for me. And I'm, I'm gonna go ahead and put it up on here and hopefully I can do it right now. But cause if you were, I know we're running late and but go ahead and give it to me. You say, how many verses we got in Genesis? I say, we got five. I'm gonna pull up in Genesis. Okay, we got one, two, three, four, five. I say, I say, we got two in Jeremiah. Okay, you got two in Jeremiah. Okay, that's good. That's good, man. So that's what happened, ladies and gentlemen, behind the scenes. So if you're lying, acting as though. Yeah. I know, bro. That's okay. Mr. Woods, Mr. Woods. But I'm saying what the point I'm trying to make is that there is no point to be made. That's all it is. That's all right. Yeah, you ain't, yeah. That's all right. That's all right. It's your live out. I know that. That's okay. That's okay. Even though we put beside my cast and that's cool. So I'm gonna cut up mine. No, but listen. No, if you got your, I'm just playing, but if you got your. I got it. I got it. So go ahead and read your and I'll make sure that the audience can see it. Genesis chapter six verse five reading from the NAS. It says, then the Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great on the earth and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. Look at the progression of sin and how God himself says that every intent of the thoughts of man's heart was only evil. I mean, we can't deny that. Jeremiah chapter 17 verse nine. Jeremiah 17, nine. And we're talking about the subject of the total depravity of man. Jeremiah 17, nine. And it reads the heart is more deceitful than all else and desperately sick. Who can understand it? It doesn't say that the heart of man is okay. It has a flaw. No, it says more deceitful than all else and desperately wicked or sick. Who can understand it? Now, of course you reverse 10 and says, I the Lord search the heart. I test the mind even to give to each man according to his ways, according to the results of his deeds. But Jeremiah chapter 13 verse 23, this is interesting. Jeremiah 13, 23, he says, and the Ethiopian changes skin. We thought he was talking about Michael. Now, can Ethiopian change his skin or the leopard, his spots? The answer is no. So God uses a rhetorical question. Then also, can you do good who are accustomed to doing evil? Now, we know that the author is talking about Israel, but we're looking at the principle. We're looking at what we can draw from these texts and these passages. I'm gonna go to Ezekiel chapter 16. Ezekiel 16. And if you want me to stop, Corey, you wanna chime in and respond to any of them. That's fine. I just wanted to- No, go ahead, I'll chime in just a little bit. Okay, cool. Ezekiel chapter 16 verse one through 12. And the word of the Lord came to me saying, son of man, verse two, make known to Jerusalem her abominations and say thus saith the Lord God to Jerusalem. Your origin and your birth are from the land of the Canaanite. Your father was an Amorite and your mother Hittite. As for your birth, on the day you were born, your neighbor court was not cut, nor were you washed with water for cleansing. You were not rubbed with salt or even wrapped in cloths. No eye looked pity on you to do any of these things for you to have compassion on you. Rather, you were thrown out into the open field for you were abhorred on the day you were born. Verse six, when I passed by you and saw you squirming in your blood, I said to you while you were in your blood, live. Yes, I said to you while you were in your blood, live. I made you numerous like the plants of the field. Then you grew up, became tall and reached the age of fine ornaments. Your breasts were formed and your hair had grown, yet you were naked and bare. Then I passed by you and saw you and behold, you were at the time for love. So I spread my skirt over you and covered your nakedness. I also swore to you entered into a covenant with you so that you became mine, declares the Lord. Then I bathed you with water, washed off your blood from you and anointed you with oil. I also clothed you with embroidered cloth and put sandals on a porpoise skin on your feet. And I wrapped you in fine linen and covered you with silk. I adorned you with ornaments and put bracelets on your hands and a necklace around your neck. I also put a ring in your nostril, earrings in your ears and a beautiful crown on your head. I just wanted to just read that because I'm showing you the condition and state that God shows about Israel. And notice he uses the analogy in the picture of a baby being abandoned, being thrown away, almost at the verge of death. And so God says, just like this baby, just like this infant that was cast aside and left for dead, had it not been for God, that baby would have died. He said, I curved you. I said to you, why you in your blood live? I did this, I did, it was nothing that man did. It was all God. Ezekiel chapter 37, verse one through 10. Ezekiel 37, one through 10. We all know the value of the dry bones. So for the sake of repeating it and for the sake of record, I wanna say it, read it again. Verse one, the hand of the Lord was upon me and he brought me out by the spirit of the Lord and set me down in the middle of the valley and it was full of bones. He caused me to pass among them roundabout and behold, they were very many on the surface of the valley and low they were very dry. And I got very dry and very many highlighted in my Bible. He said to me, verse three, son of man, can these bones live? And I answered, oh Lord God, you know, I got that highlighted too, Corey, can these bones live? And Ezekiel says, oh Lord God, you know. Again, he said to me, verse four, prophesy over these bones and say to them, oh dry bones, hear the word of the Lord. Thus saith the Lord God to these bones, behold, I will cause breath to enter you that you may come to life. I will put sinews on you, make flesh grow back on you. Cover you with skin and put breath in you that you may come alive and you will know that I am the Lord. So I prophesied as I was commanded. And as I prophesied, there was a noise and behold, a rattling and the bones came together, bone to his bone. And I looked and behold, sinews were on them and flesh grew and skin covered them but there was no breath in them. Then he said to me, prophesy to the breath, prophesy son of man and say to the breath, thus saith the Lord God, come from the forewinds, O breath, and breathe on these slain that they come to life. So I prophesied as he commanded me and the breath came into them and they came to life and stood on their feet and exceedingly great army. And I read that because again, this gives a picture and analogy of man in his condition until or unless God makes man alive. Man cannot do anything. And the question, go ahead. Okay, so when you say he can't do anything, what can he do until he has been made alive? And then I wanna deal with this issue about being made alive and also being dead. But prior to, and I guess you're saying that, well, first of all, what do you mean by being made alive? Do you mean by being regenerated? Born again, yes, absolutely. Okay, so prior to that happening, what could man do? Salvifically nothing. Salvifically nothing. So once he's born again, he can then do what? Once he's made alive, now he's able to respond in saving faith to Christ. So once he's regenerated, then he can make the declaration of the profession of faith that Christ is lower. Absolutely. Go ahead. So in other words, he can choose God once he's been made alive. That's the only way he can choose God is once he's made alive. Prior to regeneration, you could not choose God. Absolutely not. Okay, here's my question then. If we were to find anybody in scripture who prior to the spirit regenerating the heart that chose God, would that be enough to say that you could choose God without being regenerated? You got a verse for that? No, but I will, but my question is though, if we could find one or two. I would love to see it. We'll get there, but my question is if there is, it might be a big if, it might be a big if, but if there's a passage that shows someone did or could or maybe multiple someone's could choose God before regeneration, would that change, maybe not regeneration, but would that change maybe the view? I think we need to define what we mean by regeneration because maybe we have a different understanding of what regeneration means because regeneration means to be born again, to be born from above. That's exactly what I believe also. Now remember, and I think this is a good time for people to hear kind of what I believe, that mankind is depraved, but not so much the point to where he cannot choose. He's depraved to the point to where he will not choose. And I think there's a difference, meaning that man can choose. As a matter of fact, there are passages we'll look at that man has chosen in the past and made a positive profession of faith. However, the difference is what man could not do is continually choose. Man could not have a life, have a heart to where he is going to be choosing or believing forever, because you would agree with me that when the Bible talks about a person who is a believer, a Christian, the Bible knows of no such Christian who is not in a state of continual believing, right? We agree with that, right? And so the issue is, we've had people in the Bible who believed for a moment, but not continual believing. That's not genuine saving faith. It's not genuine saving faith. That's the prayer about the soils. And so, well, that's my point. My point is a person could make a choice to choose God, but not continually, you're right. Because Jesus says that in describing one of the seeds, that it was temporary, they could believe temporarily. And throughout the Old Testament, we see people who chose God and even believed God. Matter of fact, the passage that you read where he's talking about that he has made a covenant with them, well, let me put up on the screen really briefly, Exodus 19-7. This is God telling Moses to go to the people, give them this covenant. Ask them if they will agree. What do they do? So Moses chapter 19 verse seven says, So Moses came and called the elders of the people and set before them all these words, wish the Lord had commanded. All the people answered together and said, all that the Lord has spoken, we will do. And Moses brought back the words of the people to the Lord. And my point is, and there are other passages as well, where we see people in the Old Testament who did believe. Now, some believed momentarily. Some, there are some who believed even longer. Matter of fact, believe completely. The only problem that we have with those people, such as the Isaiahs of the world, the Jeremiahs of the world, the Abrahams of the world, the Moses of the world. We don't have a passage that says that they themselves were regenerated. That their faith was the product of them being regenerated. Now the problem with Israel and mankind is that he's wicked and he's like a sheep. He's going astray from the moment he's born. And so we have this little waywardness about ourselves. And so God decides that he's going to do something. Because if someone were to say that these people were regenerated prior to the Holy Spirit coming, what Jesus is speaking of in John 3, then we've got a question. Because the prophecy is saying what God will do in terms of regenerating the heart. So he says that he will, now we're using the term regeneration, but we notice what he's speaking of in Jeremiah and in Ezekiel, that he is going to put his spirit in the heart, wash them with water and put his spirit, which we can also call or synonymous with being born again or being born with the spirit. So he speaks about what he's going to do in Jeremiah and Ezekiel. The problem is though, in Jeremiah and Ezekiel, it hadn't happened yet. So the question then is, how then did Jeremiah or Ezekiel or any of the Old Testament saints, how did they believe prior to regeneration? And so that was my question for you. Faith, saving faith, faith in the promises of God to come. Now, let me ask you this question because you said that is it possible for a person to believe at one time and not believe again? So now that opens up Pandora's box to another question I'm going to ask you. Do you believe that a person can lose their salvation? No. Hold on, let me ask you a question. Could you say no, but you would have to by default because if a person says that they believe now but they don't believe anymore, then what does that say about the saving power of God? Number one, number two, what does that say about their profession? Because if it's all based on a profession, if it's all based on a profession that I believe, I believe, I believe, then Jesus said that you didn't choose me. I chose you and I chose that you may bear fruit, bear fruit, more fruit than much fruit. So show me an individual who has been truly regenerated by the power and spirit of God and they apostatize. There are none, there are none. Okay, so that's my point. So aren't we talking about two different dispensations? No, no, see now, because we're both dispensationalists now. I'm not dispensationalists, I'm poor. Yes you are, see that's my point right there. Yes you are, you do not believe that the church in Israel are synonymous, do you? No, I do not, no I do not. Okay, so that's dispensationalism right there, also. Fine, you want to call me dispensationalist. Come on, bro, that's my point. See, ladies and gentlemen, that's my point. He don't want to be called a term but the terms don't mean anything. It just elucidates a belief or a system. Here's why, here's why, because just like you've got different types of Baptist, different types of method, you've got different types of folks who hold to a dispensationalist view. And so I'm not in any of those camps, truth be told. Now, let me just say this. A person is saved by the profession of their faith. Absolutely. There's a big issue though, a believer continues. The Bible knows of no such thing. We won't get into the Greek here, but the Greek is clear. There is no such thing, and Seco agrees with me on this, there is no such thing as a person who is a believer for one day and then stops believing and then makes it into heaven. There's no such person, whether in the old or the New Testament. Now, I'll deal with the Old Testament in a second but I want to make this part clear. In the New Testament, if a person is, their hearts regenerated, now the Holy Spirit is in them, the Bible says that they will be cost and cost to walk in him. Oh, by the way, God says that they will never turn away from him and he will never turn away from us. And so a believing person never stops believing. If a person believes today and then stops believing tomorrow, he never had that saving faith. As a matter of fact, he was never regenerated. And so I think that a person, a Christian will remain. A Christian will abide. A Christian, same word by the way, a Christian will bear fruit. A Christian will follow continuously. A Christian will keep believing. We'll never stop believing. I believe that's what the Bible teaches. However, what I'm talking to you about is post-regeneration. Prior to regeneration, we have a problem. We got a problem prior to regeneration because what's working in us and how we know salvation is not what was working in them. In other words, the Holy Spirit, we can't find a passage where the Holy Spirit in dwelled man. Now we've seen the times where the Holy Spirit came upon a man. Well, we find one with Ezekiel. We find one with Ezekiel. Okay, but what we don't see is anyone being regenerated. So what does God do for salvation for these people who had faith? God has something going on that's unique to the Old Testament faith that's not here or present in the New Testament faith, which is this. They placed faith, but their faith was also accompanied by things they had to do, such as adhering to one, the day of atonement. And in the midst of that, because in the day of atonement, the interesting thing about that, which we'll get to on this issue of limited atonement, but you are in right standing with the Lord for one year. But then let's say in two weeks, in two months, in four months, I did something horrible. I did something real bad. Well, God also made a remedy for that as well. He gave us the ability to have these different sin offerings that we would get even, and there was no set amount of time for how often you can do it, but there were these sin offerings that were there that we would also bring to the Lord because I feel bad. Again, the thing is though, their faith was working in them. Now, if they were regenerated, the problem is we don't have a pastor that says they were regenerated. If they could not believe, we don't have a pastor that says they could not believe. And so my only issue is, especially with the people who are, you know, Sola Scriptura, I need a scripture that says they could not believe when clearly we've got passages that say they did Exodus 431, Exodus 1431 clearly says they believed. Their belief though was temporary. They did not have this regeneration to where they continually believe just like today. We don't have to observe any other sacraments or anything like that, any continual sacrifices of sin. We have one to rely on that's Jesus. They had the day of atonement, which was made for them individually as well as the nation of Israel collectively, but then they had their own individual offerings that they could give as well. Now, was Moses, was his heart regenerated? Was David's heart regenerated? Was Isaiah or Jeremiah or anyone else or any of the Old Testament saints or we don't know their name? Were they regenerated? Maybe, problem is, we don't have a scripture to go with that. But we know that they were the Old Testament saints. So how is an Old Testament, how is an Old Testament person, a person that's under the Old Testament or under the law, how are they saved? By faith, by faith in the atonement. Okay, so they had to believe, right? How were they able to do that? Because in the same book, Moses tells them, this is what you're supposed to do. And they say, yes, we will. And Moses, what did Moses tell them? No, you're not gonna do this. You're not gonna follow this. You're saying that you will, but you won't. That's what Moses tells them. But then, aren't there people that did believe? Those who believe, depends on what you're talking about by believe. Are you saying that they believe and they persisted and they kept on believing? By, by, by, in other words, I'm saying, are you talking about they believe by mouth, remember they professed me with their lips, but their mouths, but their hearts are far from me. Well, see, now you're over in my territory. Now you're over in my territory. You're kind of making my point, Corey, because if a person can say that they believe, what is the difference between them and faith? Demons believe. Matter of fact, demons got better theology than most professing Christians today. The difference between their faith or somebody who believed temporarily in our faith is that ours is and is a present active part of it. Ours is a continual faith. But how do we know that our faith is genuine? How do I know that you're saved, Corey? How do I know you're saved? Ultimately, you don't know. I mean, but biblically, the Bible says we can know based on what we, but based on fruit. Well, based on our faith and then we can tell by that, we can look at fruit, but the fruit is never absolute, because again, there are people, okay. I agree with that. I'm saying that the scriptures teach that we shall know them in the context of false teaching. They're also in the context of brothers and sisters in Christ by their fruit, okay. Now, it does not mean, like you said, it's absolute or it's gonna be foolproof, but it does mean that I can tell based on observation and a pattern and course of a person's life that this person is a believer. If not, then we need to throw in gut for John three, four through 11, out the text. Well, hold on before we get to the new testament. Let me bring a couple of passages up. Let me bring a couple of passages up. Joshua 24, starting verse 15, he says, if it is disagreeable in your sight to serve the Lord, choose for yourself today whom you will serve, whether the guys with your fathers serve, which were beyond the river, or the guys of the Amorites in whose land you are living. But as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord. The people answered and said, far be it from us that we should forsake the Lord to serve other guys. For the Lord is our God, is he who brought us and our fathers out of the land of Egypt from the house of bondage, and who did these great signs in our sites and preserved us through all the way in which we went in and among all the peoples through whose midst we passed. The Lord drove out from before us all the peoples, even the Amorites who lived in the land. We also will serve the Lord for his guys. So they make a proclamation. But then I wanna put this passage up. Well, hold on, hold on, hold on Corey, can we go to verse 19 though in Joshua 24? Okay. What did Joshua tell him? You will not be able to serve the Lord for he is a holy God. He is a jealous God. He will not forgive your transgression or your sins. If you forsake the Lord and serve foreign gods, then he will turn and do you harm and consume you after he has done good to you. Okay. And the people said to Joshua, no, but we will serve the Lord. Joshua said to the people, you are witnesses against yourselves, that you have chosen for yourselves the Lord to serve him and they said, we are witnesses. Then he warns them. So this is, he's making an appeal. He's making a one. Just like we tell people in technically, technically. But wait a second, wait a second. But wait a second. Did he say you can't or you won't? What does the text say? It says they won't. Okay, you making my point Corey? No, you making mine. The point is, I'm not saying, salvation is according to the Calvinist doctrine, is that man is so deprived that he cannot. I'm saying he won't. But he won't because he's unable to. See, see, see, see, see, see, see. I think, here's what I think, Corey. See, and this is, this is, I think this is the whole argument when people want to dunk on quote unquote, Calvinist or the doctrines of grace. Y'all want to, and I say y'all, just meaning those who don't hold to all five, which is a nominally me, but y'all want to pull the proverbial cart before the horse. What are we going to do with this dead body, Corey? What are we going to do with this dead body? What are we going to do with this corpse? And that is not, that has not been made alive yet. It's like, y'all want him to do something, but we got to deal with this autopsy first. How are we going to deal with this? Because this corpse is starting to stink, bro. The life that we are, he's stinking. And so we got to deal with this corpse. We got to deal with this spiritual condition that has not been remedied yet. So what do we do with man's spiritual condition first? Is man dead or is he a little dead? Is he knocked out? Is he comatose or is he flat line? Which one? Well, apparently, and matter of fact, I'll deal with that right now, but one of the passages that speaks to whether a person can believe, and we know they weren't regenerated, but they did believe the people of Nineveh. Jonah goes and what does the Bible say? The Bible uses the word believe. They believed. Now, what sort of belief it doesn't tell us? And so if someone says that a person can't believe or a person won't believe, all we can go off of according to the scriptures, because what I think was happening is we're reading more into it than it's there. It does not say that they cannot, it says they will not, but in Nineveh, they did believe. Now, we make the statement that someone is dead, such as in Ephesians, is Ephesians two? Yeah, Ephesians two, yes sir. That they were dead in their truth, but does dead mean an inability to respond? Or does it, or I would say, that someone who was separate. Why? Well, okay, so if we are, this go to Ephesians then, because right now, you know what I got, bro? I got my mask on, because this dead body you got right here. We gotta do this dead body, bro. I'm gonna keep my mask on until we give you this dead body. This dead body right now is stinking. So we gotta deal with the spiritual condition of man. Okay. We gotta deal with this, with this, with this, with the Bible calls man. What does dead mean? Is that first of all, we know it's not a little dead. Look it up, look it up. Let's go to the Greek and look it up. Because he says it clearly. It's, we don't have to look it up because we know the word means neck cross, it means dead. But what kind of, hold on, but let's look at the context. Because the context determines the interpretation, right? It says dead in your trespasses and sin, not dead in your ability. Corey, if man is dead in his trespasses and sins and if God tells or Jesus tells who is God, tells us that you did not choose me, but I chose you. Then in John six, he says no man can come to the father. Okay. No man can come after, no man. So wait a second, wait a second, wait a second. Let's back up for a second. Let's back up for a second, let's back up for a second. If I say a person is dead, let's deal with this word first, dead. Dead means that they have no ability or maybe my take is dead means we're separated. For example, the prodigal son, the Bible says, Jesus says in this parable that my son was dead, now he's alive. The difference between when he was dead, separated. He's alive, he's back with me. How was he made alive, Corey? By coming back. How was he even granted repentance? The son came back on his own. Oh, so you believe man does have the ability to repent on their own? Listen to what I just said, listen to what I just said. I say it in regards to this story. Let's look at the passages that talk about someone being dead. We've got the, and I've got my little nose. I wanna make sure that I cover my actual nose. One, we've got the prodigal son. Roman six says that we are being dead to sin. Does that mean? Made alive and made alive to righteousness. Hold on, hold on, hold on. The word dead means, if dead means inability to respond, that's certainly not what the word dead means in Roman six, couldn't be. The context, but the context, Corey determines the passage. You know this, bro. You're saying the context determines that dead means inability. I'm saying dead means separated. I'm saying that we accept the passage. That's not what it says. I'm asking, it does not context determine the term of the interpretation. It absolutely does. So let's go to the text. Which text, which one? The one that you cited. You wanna go to Ephesians two first? You wanna go to John six? We can go to Ephesians two. We can go to Ephesians two. And you were dead in your trespasses and sins in which you formally walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience. So that word dead means inability. Are you asking me? Are you making a statement? No, I'm asking you. I'm asking, does the word dead here? It means unable to respond. Why does it mean that? Well, let's look at the definition of it. The word dead is the Greek word for neck cross, which means dead, of course. Let's look at the definition of it. Definition, neck rock, right? I'm putting up my mind as well too. I agree with the definition of it. You have different clauses though, Corey. You have different clauses, right? Okay. You have different clauses. Figuratively, I'm reading from Zodiacis. Figuratively, those dead to Christ and his gospel meaning spiritually dead. Also metaphorically, in opposition to the life of the gospel, example of persons dead to Christ in his gospel and thus exposed to punishment spiritually dead. Guess what it has in here as a reference? Ephesians chapter two. Okay. But you missed a point. You haven't said you didn't answer the question though. I didn't answer the question. This clearly is a metaphor, right? Of course it is. And opposition to the gospel. So here's the point though. Wait a second. Wait a second, Psycho. Wait a second, Psycho. Dead, but even in your discussion, even in what you just read, it does not say that that person is unable. So Corey, then you're giving man more credit than what you're doing. No, you're giving the word dead more credit than you're adding more to the word dead. Okay, so to make sure I understand what you're saying. Are you saying that there are some people who choose to be saved and some who don't? Again. Just just to know, just just to know. Do you believe that there are some people who deserve to be saved and those who don't? Psycho, I'll say it again. There are a bunch of people who have chose or who have placed their faith momentarily in Christ, but it was not the same as what the Bible described. It wasn't genuine faith then, bro. It's not genuine faith. Psycho, Psycho, I didn't say it. First child chapter two, verse 19. Hold on, wait a second. Maybe you're missing on my point. I never said that people who choose momentarily are saved. That's not what I'm saying. I never called that genuine faith. I never said that. That's what I'm talking about Corey. I'm talking about saving faith. I'm talking about if a person is born again, they won't fall away. They won't turn away. To be in a state of continual believing that requires according to John 3, according to Jesus, that requires a person's heart to be regenerated. I agree with that. That's not my point. Again, ultimately everybody that is saved, everybody that is saved, everybody who is saved is saved as a result of the work of the spirit in them. That does not mean that a person could not make a professional faith, but it not be genuine. They really believe that Jesus died for them and they chose to place a temporary faith, but then walked away again, according to the parable of the soulers, these are people. These are people. These are people according to Jesus who believed and Jesus literally uses the word believe. I'm not disagreeing with you on that Corey. Now, out of the four soil story, which one was genuine? Out of the four soils. We don't have to argue that. We don't have to argue. I'm listening. Seiko, this is the point, because I think sometimes you guys get into the point where I'm rushing to it. I never said that the belief that anybody can have saving faith apart from regeneration. I never said that. I never said that. I said that anybody can believe, but only those with saving faith, that's a part of regeneration. I've done multiple videos and discussions on how a person is regenerated, John 3, Ezekiel, Jeremiah, and so forth. I've covered this at nauseam. I'm not saying that saving faith for us especially happens apart from the Holy Spirit. That's not what I've ever, I've never said that. I said that mankind has the ability to believe just simply will not, especially the kind of belief that we're talking about. The belief that's temporal, the belief that's momentary, the belief that's mental ascension. Man can do that. How do we know if that same kind of faith, that mental ascension, that faith of the person who's not saved versus the person who truly is saved, how do we know the difference? Well, the difference is they're enduring, they're continual believing. The person who has that mental ascent, like Jesus talked about, they believed, or like Simon the Sorcerer who believed, or Nineveh who believed, or the Jews in Ezekiel, I'm sorry, in excess believed, that kind of faith preceded heart regeneration of the spirit. It did. We don't have a pastor saying that somebody was regenerated by the Holy Spirit prior to John. We don't have that or prior to the cross. We don't have any Old Testament saying where it's told, now were they, if it is, if they were, the Bible doesn't say so. And the Bible doesn't say that they could not believe. The Bible says that their faith was different though, it's clear their faith was different. Their faith needed the belief in these other offerings and sacrifices. Ours is on the one that Christ gave. I said ultimately it shakes out the same way. If a person can believe or is unable to believe. It works out the same way because everybody can, but nobody will. That's where God steps in and then doesn't work in a person's heart. So I'm not saying that a person can't give momentary, matter of fact that's what I'm saying, they can only give momentary, fleeting faith. Not a continual faith. And the Bible speaks of two types of faith, especially when it relates to salvation. He speaks of a continual, matter of fact most often in a present active participle, entering to say one time of continual believing, that's how believers are described. But able to believe for the moment, mankind has always been able to believe for the moment, but then his true colors end up showing up. And so because of that, what does God do? That's where God says that he is now going to give us his spirit and cause us to walk, cause us to remain, cause us to bear fruit, cause us to keep following. And so ultimately you and I and whoever else is saved, we're saved because of, because the fact that our heart was regenerated. That part we don't have to discuss. We don't have to worry about it. I agree with that. I'm saying has there ever been a person in the history of the world that believed God? Yes, because the Bible literally says there are people that believe Nineveh did without their hearts being regenerated. Now I don't know if any of the Ninevites actually are in heaven now. I have no idea. I don't know if they believe and then they went back, I have no idea. So if you're going to say that a person in the Bible in the Old Testament could not believe and I show people that did believe, then what is the, where's the argument? There is none, right? Wrong. All right. So I'm gonna respond to your point because there are a lot of implications that you're making. Okay. Actually at the beginning of our talk, do you believe that a person can profess salvation, believe quote unquote, right? And decide to no longer believe and fall away. They lose their salvation. You said emphatically no. Mm-hmm. Okay. If that being the case, I said that opens up Pandora's box to a lot of other implications, which is why a lot of people attack the once saved always saved camp, which is what I belong to and I hold to. I believe that once a person has been genuinely saved by the power and grace and spirit of God, they will not fall away, they will not apostatize, they will not take the mark of the beast and all that kind of stuff. They won't, because God has sealed them. I do also believe that there are people who profess but don't possess. We have that in scripture as well. We have Matthew chapter seven verse 21 to 23. Many would say to me on that day, Lord, Lord, we know the text. They would not do all these works in your name. I mean, you had Judas. The disciples didn't know that Judas was over the devil. He casted out devils and did everything else that the other 11 did, but he was of the devil. So it's not about what a person says is about what they show, because that is the determining factor that we know a person has been born of God. Now, it is not the foolproof because we don't know the individual's heart. God does, but based on your profession and pattern of life, that is how I can discern whether a person is born from above. Now, you have people who claim to be saved, but their conduct betrays that claim. So if you're telling me that a person can be regenerated, and I wanna make sure I'm making your claim that you're saying, Corey, are you saying that a person can be regenerated born from above by the power and spirit of God and still turn away? No. I'm asking you a question, I'm on my way down there. Listen, I'm asking you a question because it's like you're making circular reasoning because if you're telling me, if we both agree that salvation is of God, right? By grace through faith alone, I'm telling you that if man is dead and his trespasses and sins and then you wanna get in this semantical game and saying, well, what does dead mean? And the context makes it clear. God said, you and I, Ephesians one. What does Ephesians one tell us? He chose us. Okay, say go, but say go. Okay, okay, okay. All right. Everybody. He didn't do it based on our behavior. He didn't do it based on what the 90s wanted to do. You're right, you're right, you're right. We don't have the ability to stay consistent. That's our issue. We don't have the ability to believe apart from him, Corey. Okay, well, if that's the case, say go, how did they believe apart from him in the Old Testament? That's what, we disagreed by faith, by faith. So were the Ninevites, were the hearts of the Ninevites regenerated? Not all of them, Corey. Just like all of the Israel wasn't saved. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. But the ones who believed, were the Ninevites who did believe? What did the text say? They believed. And listen, how do we know that they believe, Corey? Because it says so. But you don't, no, no, no, no, no, no. How do we know? Because it's in the text. It's in the text. Let's go to it. How do we know that they believed? Let's go to it. Can I make one statement? There's a sister in your chat. There's a sister in your chat that I wanna make sure she understand something real quick. What's her name? Reba Ben. She said, sick or calm down. Brothers and sisters, ladies and gentlemen, I'm not sure if you're black, if you're white, but where I'm from, I'm from the D, I'm from Detroit. We had what we call barbershop-style conversations. I'm pretty sure that there are some of you when the Super Bowl was planned. Y'all was amped up about a team who did nothing for you. I'm getting amped up about the word of God and about truth with my brother, who is a brother of Christ. There's no beef, we're not angry at each other. We're just men. This is how men talk, okay? So I don't need to calm down. No, so I feel, I'll be honest, I feel threatened by your tone. Well, get over it. Get over it. Get over it. Listen, I'm about to report you to YouTube, be honest with you, matter of fact, you know what I said, you know what I said I did. You know what I said I did, don't you? I should have worn a BCBC shirt. That's what I should have did. I should have, but listen. But y'all listen, let me say this. So for a second, take no offense to his excitement or mine as well. We're both good or whatever, he's passionate. He's wrong, he's wrong. No, I'm kidding, I'm kidding. Well, listen, I believe, because I think, and maybe I could do a better job of explaining. I believe that we are regenerated. He chose us and so we choose him. He loves us first and so that we love him. We have something that's in us because the issue that was wrong with the saints in the Old Testament wasn't that I don't think, as far as I can tell, that they could not believe. The issue was they could not stay consistent and they would go to sinning and they would go to foreign guys and what God kept doing was coming back to them and God would even have a remedy. God's remedy for the fact that they would not stay consistent was to give them his spirit. That's why he says I will wash their hearts from the clean water in the hearts and put my spirit in them and then cause them to obey my commandments. And Jeremiah says that they will never depart from me and I will never depart from them. And so the issue is not, I don't think that a man could not believe because again, Jonah tells us that Nineveh believed. I don't think that, now maybe the Ninevites were regenerated. Problem is we don't have a passage that says the Ninevites were regenerated. I can listen, I'm hoping to be wrong on that. I need a passage. But I think you mentioned about dismissations, right? Okay, so I don't want us to conflate that. I do believe that we can glean from Jonah and see the principles that we can pull from that and that is repentance. Even though we may not see other theological tenets, but we do see this and this is in Genesis, I mean not Genesis, Jonah chapter three. So I'm looking at Jonah chapter three. Verse, I started verse, go to the verse one of Jonah chapter three. Let's go to verse five, because that's the point that I'm gonna give you. Well, we go to one, we go to one, we go to one. I always want to give people the context, but that's fine. Verse five, then the people of Nineveh believed in God and they called a fast and put on sackcloth from the greatest to the least of them. Can we deal with that word believed? I'm not disagreeing with you, bro, I'm saying, but how did we know that they believed in God? Look at what they did as a result. They called a fast, put on sackcloth from the greatest to the least of them. But would they be the first people, have there ever been any Jews that believe, called for fast, put on sackcloth masses and then left? Sure, that's the history of Israel. Great. Well, go put your hair out, go put your hair out. When I try to help you, then you just go right back and you just kick the legs from under your own chair. I'm trying to show you that I agree that they believed and I do also believe that there were genuine believers in the Old Testament in Nineveh. Question, sir. I got a question, I got a question, sir. Were these Ninevites dead in their trespasses and sin? Every man. Every man. How they believe. God gave them the gift to believe. Apart from, listen to me, Corey. Apart from, apart from God. The Bible says, I ain't saying it, the Bible says. No, no, no, no, no, no. I get post Christ, I get that. I ain't talking about no post Christ. I'm talking about pre and post, post toasters, post Christ, post Christmas, all of that. Listen, can you stop spitting on your microphone? I'm good, bro, I'm good at it. Where's your wife at? Where's your wife at? Come get this man, okay. So, look at what the text says. Verse seven, verse seven, verse six. Then when the word reached the king of Nineveh, he rose from his throne, laid aside his role from him, covered himself in sackcloth and sat on the ashes. He issued a proclamation and said in Nineveh, by the decree of the king and his nobles, do not let man, beast, herd, or flock taste a thing. Do not let them eat or drink water, but both man and beast must be covered with sackcloth and let men call on God earnestly. Then each, here it is, repentance, even though it ain't said it, may turn from his wicked way and from the violence which is in his hands. Who knows, he says. God may turn and relent and withdraw his burning anger so that we will not perish. When God saw their deeds, that they turned from their wicked way, then God relented concerning the calamity which he had declared he would bring upon them and he did not do it. Cory, that's repentance, yo. My question is, my question, okay. I granted them repentance, Cory. I know you don't wanna believe it. So my question is, were these people's heart regenerated? Were they dead in their sins? Cory, I just said to you, I'm not backing down from what I said. You ain't gotta back down, because if you're gonna say. I just told you, I just told you. Under the old covenant, under the old covenant, their deeds were wrought with repentance. They heard, you see conviction of sin right here in the text. You see repentance? Your text even though it's not especially stated. I agree with everything we're about to say. Right. So even though. Were they dead? Yes, they were, but they were not dead. They were now saved. Who made them alive? Who did, bro? No, no, no. God did. Okay, fine. Who regenerated their hearts? Were they regenerated? God, under the old, was Abraham regenerated? I don't know. I don't know. That's the point. That's my point. That is my point. I don't care about doing all that. I don't care about, listen, Sharon, come get them. The question is, were the Ninevites regenerated? If so, can I have a passage, please? Cory, Cory, Cory, Cory. Do you wanna go to the commercial break real quick? No, no, no, I want you, I want you, I want you, I want you. Hold on, hold on, did you just say to me, did you just say to me that you don't know if Abraham was regenerated? You got a passage? Abraham believed God and it was credited unto him as righteousness. Yep, yep, yep. Give me the passage that says, but before we go to Abraham, right here. Cory, Cory, hold on, wait a minute. No, no, stay here and join him. Stay here and join him. I'm not going nowhere. I'm still talking about the fact that you just said that I father Abraham, you don't know if he was born again. Listen, all you, listen, listen, listen, you Calvinist people, I'm on you Calvinist folk. Cory, look at him, look at him, look at him. I'm on you Calvinist folk, tell me please, tell me please, cause you got, listen, you cannot get on everybody else about where's the passage, Sola Scriptura. You can't do that and then not give me a passage that says they were regenerated, that they were, or give me a passage that says that the Ninevites were dead in their trespasses and that they were, hold on, hold on, I'm just speaking, give me 17 and a half seconds. Matter of fact, give me 4.3 seconds. Give me the passage that says that they were dead in their trespasses and saying meaning that they were unable to respond. Give me the passage that says that they were regenerated in order to do so. That's all, or you assuming, you're assuming that. Okay, so I'm going to answer your question. The word regenerated is not in the Old Testament, it's not, it's not. But we find principles, just like we don't see the word Trinity, but we would believe and agree that the doctrine is true. Would you at least concede with that point, Corey? Yes, I would. Okay, so thank God you agree with me on that part. Maybe we can get another point you agree on. Okay, so if Abraham, David, the patriarchs, they believed God, they believe what God said, what's credited unto them is righteousness. Abraham is the father of the faith. We are his children if we believe and have the faith that Abraham had. Now, just because, and I use the term regenerated as a euphemism, I'm sorry, no problem, I'll roll that back. They were Old Testament believers, they were saints, okay? They were saints. I'm going to see them in heaven because of the faith that they placed in Yahweh and the Messiah before he even came, that was faith. Okay, now, now, I say that because nobody gets saved apart from saving faith, which is a gift, which is a gift. So if it's a gift, if it's a gift, is repentance a gift? I'm just asking, is repentance a gift? They got great repentance? Sure. Okay, sure, okay. Okay, it's faith a gift, is faith a gift? Our faith is a gift, yes. Is there any other faith that it's not a gift? Well, if we're talking about the word believe whether it be the Hebrew or Greek, there's different types of faith. There are saving faith, that's a gift also for us. Okay, thank you. Now, we can't say, here's what we have, but say to them, am I wrong in this? This is how I teach, this is how I teach. And I think it's healthy. I think it's a healthy way of teaching this. All right, I believe that we should say what the scriptures say and what it doesn't say. We're open to say, I think this, we're open to say, I think this is what's happening here. That's why I said earlier, it's possible that the Ninevites were regenerated. It's possible that God did do something in their hearts. It's possible. Problem is though, I just don't have a scripture that tells me so. It's possible I'm wrong about total depravity. I just don't have a scripture that, huh? But what about Jonah, what about Jonah three? I mean, you don't wanna mention Jonah. So you're saying that these Ninevites weren't say, they weren't delivered? Oh, no, no, no. That's not what I'm saying. We agree, they believed. We agree. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. So why are we talking about, but you, you. Cause you're missing the point, Seiko. The point is not that they believe, we're talking about what caused their belief. God did. What you mean? What do you say, what do you say, what do you say? Are we saying, are we saying that the Ninevites were regenerated, that the Lord put His Holy Spirit in the hearts of the Ninevites and cause them to believe? I'm not saying he didn't. What I am saying is I don't have a scripture to tell me he did. We can't deduce from what we'll see. Well, what we can deduce, I think it might be easier to deduce is that God didn't do that yet because God prophesied that He will do that to Israel and to the world. He will do that in the future. Why would He say what He's gonna do in the future if He's already doing it? And we don't have any examples of Him saving people prior to Jonah. I didn't say that. I didn't say we don't have examples. We don't have examples. I'm asking. But Seiko, Seiko, do we have a scriptural example of someone being regenerated prior to faith in the Old Testament? We're talking about a different dispensation now with us. That's my point. That's why I said I don't know why we were going to this dispensation part on this issue here because it's really gonna be a moot point because we're gonna be kind of like making semantical arguments. Because I believe this. I believe this. That the Old Testament saints were saved by faith. Okay? They were saved by faith because God did that. Okay, let me say this. Let me say this so we can, we're going to have to go ahead and move on to the next one because it's clear. It's clear. The Lord got to work with you on this one. It's clear. Oh, okay. So you- But no, what I wanna do is this. What I wanna do, because I think folks understand you, I wanna make sure folks understand me. Guys, especially those who have never heard me say this before, I do not believe. I believe what Jesus says in John 3. You must be born of the spirit. I believe that. I believe not that man is unable to choose Christ. Man is able, but just simply unwilling. Unwilling. Some folks say, Corey, it's the same thing. That means you're a Calvinist. No, it's not. I'm sitting and arguing with a Calvinist. My point is that we can, we just don't. And so because of that, what does God do? God knows I'm not gonna choose him. God knows I'm not gonna continue. God knows I'm gonna be like that one guy. Yeah, I know Jesus. That's for real. It was on a Friday down the railroad depot. Not that kind of faith. The kind of faith that keeps us safe, that keeps us believing. That kind of faith whereby the spirit works in our heart, I believe John 3 is correct. That regeneration does perceive faith as far as we're concerned. I also believe that there are people who could just not continually. I think there's a big difference now. Can I interject, sir? I wish you wouldn't be going at it. Well, you've been interjecting me, but like a needle. You keep saying that man could. And I go back to the corpse. Because you seem to have an animus to this word dead. I don't. I believe what the Bible says. You said, we're to believe and say what the word says. God says you and I were dead in trespasses and sins. He said, we did not choose him. He chose us. Show me a person who God chooses that decides now they don't want to be chosen. I agree with that. That's not the condition of the argument. That is not the intention. I agree with that. Okay, but if I'm reading Ephesians one, and after one comes Ephesians two. And Ephesians two tells me what I was and what God did. How can you or anyone else go back and say, well, wait a minute, I have the ability in myself to choose God, to choose to be saved. Bro, that's not biblical. What that is, that's semi-pallagianism. Again. I mean, it is, Cory. Again, when you say dead, we have to figure out what you mean by dead. I don't think dead means inability. So then again, you're giving man, you're giving man the ability to do something for himself in a salvific sense, more than what God's word says. He says. And I'm using God's word, and I'm not placing something that God did not say specifically. So again, I say, I cannot, I cannot on my own believe God. I don't mean believe in a superficial fashion. I don't mean believe temporarily. Anybody can believe temporarily. Simon the Sorcerer believed temporarily. Anybody can believe. It's his faith at that moment. Let me ask you this question. Was this, was this belief in that moment that he quote unquote, believe? Was that genuine? Was that, was that an orphan? Was that from above? Who, Simon didn't say, he just said he believed. He's the exact same word, different 10. Okay, so, okay, no problem. So do you believe that a person can be genuinely saved from above and yet turn away? I said no. Why did he go on back to that? Because we had talked about Simon then. Because if that's the case, then Simon's belief was not genuine belief. Simon's belief was okay. Then the parable of the sower, did somebody, in the parable that Jesus describes, did somebody believe temporarily? You had three of them that believed on the surface, but only one, only one. What does belief mean? It means what I said, to put one's trust in something. Okay, so this person trusted for the moment. But soon as, as soon as, as soon as the world came, temptation or what have you came, what did he do, he left. So we're not, so just the word saved, I mean the word believe, anybody can believe the different person that believes right now for the moment versus the person who believes continually is just that word, continually. Which brings the point forward. And what causes the continual part, what causes the continual part is the Holy Spirit. A person must be born of the Spirit in order to have that continual part. I agree with you on that. So Corey, so Corey, I'm back to the question that you've seen these stumbling over. If a person, if a person places their faith in trust, we deal with the parable of the soils again, right? Four of them, three of them were not genuine. Same Greek words, same Greek words, but only one. Same Greek word that was in the first three soils. That fourth one also believed, but what did that fourth one, what did that fourth one do? What was the result of the fourth one? He remained, he remained. So he remained, the first three, they claim to have faith, but the works. What were the works? See, okay, okay, hold on, hold on, hold on. Cause see, the issue is this, the issue is this. I'm kind of catching some of the chats. I think everybody has just assumed that two things without giving an actual scripture to back it up. This is my biggest issue with the Sola Scriptura crowd. You might be right. You may absolutely be writing what you believe. But if you can't give me a scripture then don't get mad at me cause I don't take what you say. If that's the case, not necessarily you say go, but everybody else, I might as well be a charismatic. I might as well believe, because if the scriptures do not tell me that the Old Testament saints were regenerated, stop saying they were regenerated. Stop saying that the God put, I'm being down, I'm being like, y'all need to calm down. Stop saying that the Lord put his spirit in their heart when he said they're, he's going to, prior to Jonah, prior to Exodus, prior to all those of the Old Testament saints, the Lord had not determined that at that moment that he's going to put his heart in people and cause them to continually walk. That hadn't happened. He prophesied, he was prophesied through Ezekiel, through Jeremiah, through Isaiah and so forth that he's going to do that. So if you're going to tell me, I'm seeing some of the Calvary people saying this, if you're going to tell me that's what he did, then don't go on as Mr. and Mrs. Sola Scriptura out there, give me the scripture. Stop telling me to believe because Calvin has believed that. I do not believe it apart from the scriptures. That's all I'm saying. Show me where a person believed in the Old Testament and it was because they were regenerated. You can't find that. Stop titting and this goes to you as well. If you're going to say a person is dead and dead means in unable, well then does it always mean unable? Because- Cor, I gave you the definition. No, no, no, you gave me your interpretation. The definition- No, Cor, no, no, sir, no, sir, you're not going to do that one. I gave you the definition- So what's the part of what's on dead? I gave you the definition and the context of how dead was used in scripture. So are we dead the same way to sin? I mean, if dead means, if dead means unable. If that's what you're saying, unable. Hold on, unable to do what, Cor? Don't leave the unable out there. Unable to do what? Salvifically. No, no, no, no, no, no. Because now you're adding to the word. I'm not adding it. Cor, I'm giving you, I'm giving you a thesis one in Ephesians two. Ephesians, I'm not making anything to tell me. That the state that we were in as a result of our disobedience means that we're dead. And I take the word dead to mean separated, just like the prodigal son. Cor, Cor, we have, we know that there are different kinds of death, right? We have physical death, we have spiritual death, we have eternal death, right? Do it? Yeah, somebody asked me, what was my definition of death? My definition of dead is being separated. And that's it. Well, there's obviously, there's a literal sense. We clearly aren't talking about it. Do you agree with the three senses that I gave you? Do you agree with the three senses that the physical, the spiritual and the eternal? And said it again? Do you agree with the physical death, spiritual death and eternal death? I do not. And I believe that the spiritual and the eternal are kind of like together. Yeah, but the eternal is where a person goes to hell, like a fire, right? Yes. Okay, so if the case that I'm making with you is if Ephesians one tells us what God did for us, and Ephesians two tells us how we were before God saved us. The state that we ran, not the ability. Not the ability. Corey, Corey, listen, so can we go to Ephesians two then? We did. I'm sorry? We can go back to if you want. Please, let's go back to it again. But now you're gonna give me the definition that's not there though. You're gonna tell me what that means. I'm not giving you anything but what the scripture says. You said that we were dead in our trespasses. I'm saying the word, the dead means, I'm gonna take it. Wait, hold on, Corey, Corey, Corey. Could not dead and separated depending on the context mean the same thing, depending on context? Yeah, we were separated, yeah. We were dead in that regard. Okay, so hold on. Okay, let me ask this question. Let me ask this question then. I'ma follow your logic. I'ma follow your logic. Mm-hmm. We were separated from God, right? Mm-hmm. Who did that? We did. Our sin did that. Oh, our sin did that. Our sin did that, Adam's sin did that. So we- Okay, okay, okay, no problem, no problem. Both. So we're separated, right? We're separated, right? Mm-hmm. Would you like the word estranged? How about that? You like the word estranged? Yeah, if you wanna use that word, I don't know where you're going with it. Good, good, good, good, good, okay. So how do we become like peaches and herds and we become reunited? How do we become reunited then? How does man become unseparated from God? Who does that? That's obviously God. That's obviously- So that's God. That's God to unseparate us, to reunite us. What? Okay, say it. I'm just asking. So you like the word separated, but you don't like the word dead. Say go, say go, say go. I said our positionally speaking, us. We were dead. God made us alive. Now I believe being made alive is what happens when we make this faith. And I do believe that every single person who's been regenerated will make this professional faith. I believe that. I believe that's what it means to be made alive. As a matter of fact, John- Continue. Huh? Continue. John, like John- Matter of fact, let me put this on the screen too. John, let me copy this and paste it. I won't put it on the screen as well. I should have brought my hand and seen. You should have brought something. You should have brought something. I knew I shouldn't have went to specs. I knew I should have went to specs. All right, listen. And you were unwilling to come to me so that you may have life. So I believe that when we come to him, which will happen, which will happen if we are regenerated. And so when we come to him, we will be made alive. That all is a gift. I do not, and so I naturally take the reverse that dead is being separated, which also we see being spoken of with the prodigal son who he says, my son, it was dead. Now he's alive. He was separated. Now he's with me. I do agree with that portion of it. I do agree with that. Are you with me? And so that's how I take dead and alive to be. Now that's what happens as a result of the spirit. The Holy spirit will regenerate us and cause us to make this professional faith and we will become alive. We're not talking about the New Testament saints. We're talking about the people in the Old Testament who did not have, at least according to scripture, that we can find we don't have anyone being regenerated by the spirit. Is there a such passage in the, and I would love to see somebody in chat. Is there a such passage in the Old Testament that tells me that we were, or anyone, not we, but they were regenerated. Is there a such passage in the Old Testament where anyone who believed, they believed as a result of being regenerated first? We don't have that. That's my only issue. You might be right. But you can go to speaking. Thank you. Thank you. Can you tell me why we stuck on the Old when we're not even Old Testament saints we're New Testament saints? I'm just asking. The reason why we're stuck on the Old because I gave my definition of why I, or my statement why I don't believe in total depravity, the Calvinist view is that mankind is unable. I believe that mankind is unable to continuously that we can, at least fleeting for the moment, make a profession of faith, but it won't last. There's nothing in us to make it last. Is that profession genuine? I won't even get it. I don't know. No, no, no, no, no. All I can say is this. All I can say is this is the sake of all I ever say. Because the reason I'm having these conversations is because you made a video about me. I did. Because the video was trashing Calvinist and it was a misrepresentation. And that's what I was trashing Calvinist. No, no, no. You kind of did. You kind of was dunking on it. And then you had, what do you mean? And then you had the neophyte, the seven month old, just making statements that he didn't know what he was talking about. And I really wanted them. I really wanted them. But my question though is, if you keep positing that people can believe for a time, my question is again, that you don't want to answer. Is that person's belief or faith genuine from above? That it came from God above? Because if you say yes, then we have a problem, Houston. We have a problem now with the eternal security of the border. Now we're saying that the man has the ability to. We're going to have to go to the other section. We're going to have to go to the other section, but. Yeah, cause I told y'all, and I guess why is brother Neymar saying that I'm private? That's okay. Cause there was somebody else that was saying if Corey goes to the Greek, it's over. I'm not bro, I'm not afraid of no Greek. I have no problem. I'm done. I'm not. Bro, if you're a master mechanic and I got the tools, you may fix the car quicker than I do, but I'm not going to be messing up. No, he's not. He's not afraid of Greek guy, but I'll say this though. So I don't know. I mean, I think that was Kairos that said that, bro, I'm not afraid of that. Listen, my only issue is that, and it may very well be that man is unable to respond. I don't have a, cause let me say this guys, this has nothing to do with this that we're talking about. But this has everything to do with everything that we're talking about in terms of the Bible. I think it's a good example to find a scripture and to hold to that, let that scripture be what guides. For me, I don't have, that's just for me. I don't have the guide to tell, I don't have the scripture, it's just for me. That tells me that the people who believed in the Old Testament were unable. I have a guy that tells me that it seemed like they were able, not continuously, and I don't see that they were regenerated by the spirit, I might be wrong. That's why- And I guess my question is, I guess my question, I guess my point to you is, is that we have David in Psalm 51. In Psalm 51, he prays after he messed up with Bathsheba and committed adultery, and he asked for God to not take his spirit from him. Now we know that we both agree, we both agree that the spirit of God did not indwell with the exception of Ezekiel, even if you don't want to use regenerated, that's fine, but nonetheless, he was dwelt by the spirit temporarily at that time in that context. But David says to the Lord, restore unto me the joy thy salvation and do not let your spirit depart from me. So even though we would say, and I would agree that we don't find, quote, unquote, Old Testament saints regenerated like New Testament believers, but that does not make them unbelievable because we're still dealing with a different economy of faith, which is really the overarching theme of both Old and New Testament faith. You cannot be saved apart from faith in the Messiah, you cannot be saved apart from faith in what the Messiah did. Now, if that is the case that we know faith is a gift. So I'm not, for me, I'm not even trying to argue about who was regenerated in the Old Testament. My argument, my contention and my umbrage with you is that you are giving man more power and more ability to do something that the scripture says that he cannot do. No, what I'm saying with man is doing is that, man, the problem that God has with man, the problem that he has with man is man's desire to want to sin. And what has held him back, what has, the issue is man's desire to please himself. That's been the issue. And so what makes him righteous can turn around, he can lose that righteous standing under the Old Covenant. Anyone of the disciplines that we are in different dispensation, they're not reading the Bible. Under the Old Covenant, you can be righteous today and then later on, not be in a right standing with God. The issue that brings that about is an issue of sin. And so what, and so God's remedy is in Ezekiel 36, he says what he's going to do. Says it in Jeremiah 29, says in Hosea as well, that he is going to give us his spirit and cause us to walk in his command. Now, that being said, I believe, and all I can go off of guys, honestly, is really how the atonement under the Old is set up, brought about in the new, especially in the New Testament, how we see it's done. And so my whole point is again, I believe, and just for those who disagree or not sure what I believe, I believe that if a person's regenerated, he'll place his faith in Christ. Place his faith in Christ, he will never, ever, ever walk away. I believe for us that the only way that we can believe in being in a state of continual believing is by the Holy Spirit. So now that somebody says, someone says, matter of fact, I think this kind of proves my point too. He says, Corey, what is circumcision of the heart? Is that by the Spirit? Yes, was it necessary to make you a true Israelite? Now, notice when he says, he says in Deuteronomy 30, that he will circumcise their heart. Their heart wasn't circumcised, that was the issue. He says that he will circumcise their heart and he tells us when he's going to do so. And that happened as a result of the cross. But now, that being the case, I wanna go ahead and move over to the other issue, this issue of... Yeah, this corpse is still stinking though. Let me tell you, yeah. Listen, I prayed and hope that I can get you fixed up right, but apparently I can't. You're gonna take the L on this one, but continue. Hold on. No, listen. Are you saying that regeneration precedes faith? Yes. According to John, regeneration precedes our faith. Absolutely. And the faith that he's talking about is a continual believing faith. That's what I believe. Saving faith. Saving faith. That's what Ezekiel's talking about. That's what Jesus is talking about. So yes, yes. Now, yeah, like Sharon said, guys, whether you're on this channel or Ezekiel Woods channel, please like the video. Don't like Ezekiel. I like Sharon, don't like Ezekiel, but like the video. Anyway, the other issue that was brought up was this issue of limited atonement. I believe, and let's do this quicker than we did the other one. Yeah. I believe that the atonement propitiation was made for everyone but not beneficial for everyone, only beneficial for those who are believing. What say you, Mr. Woods? I believe that the atonement was particular. It was specific because God said it was. I believe that when Christ died, he died for a certain group of people from all tribes, tongues, people, and nations. This is where I believe the work of Christ speaks volumes to what Christ did on that cross. Matthew chapter one verse 21 said that I should call his name, Jesus, for it is he who will save his people from their sins. Now, the issue is who is his people? Because he makes it clear who his people are. Even when his family came to him and said, Lord, your mom and your brother, he said, who's my mother? Who's my brother? And he pointed to his disciples and anyone else who obeys and who follows the father is my brother and sister and mother and things like that. So now, when Christ died on the cross, I believe that he died for his elect. He did not die for the world. And how do I know that he did not die for the world? Because when he prayed to the father in John chapter 17, he said in verse nine, I believe, I am not asking for, I'm not praying for the world. I'm praying for those in whom you have sent me. So if he died for the world, the logical conclusion and implication is then would he not be praying for everyone in the world? Yeah, but John 17, nine, he's not even speaking about all Christians. He's speaking specifically in John 17, nine. But later in John 17, he does speak about all Christians. Okay, let's put them straight. Let's see if I'm right or if you're right. I am right. And you're wrong. Absolutely. Which is not what's impossible. It's not breaking news. It's not breaking news. For the words which you gave me, I have given to them, I believe that them is specifically the disciples. Of course. And they received them and truly understood that I came forth from you. And they believe that you sent me. I ask on their behalf, I do not ask on behalf of the world, but of those whom you have given me, for they are yours. And all things that are mine are yours and yours are mine. And I have been glorified in them. I am no longer in the world. And yet they themselves are in the world. And I come to you, holy father, keep them in your name, the name which you have given me, that they may be one, while I was with them, I was keeping them in your name, which you have given me. And I guarded them and not one of them perished, but the son of perdition so that the scriptures would be filled. So I think clearly he's speaking of Continue. Verse nine. Yeah, continue on the verse. Okay, I'll continue. Yeah, you go to verse 20 right there. I read it to you. It says, I do not ask on behalf of those of these alone, but for those also who believe in me through their word. So, he's not talking. No, no, no, no, but you're talking about verse nine though. You brought up verse nine as a example. He's not praying for the world. He's praying for his elect. He's praying for his disciples. But he says, I'm not asking verse 20 for these alone, but for those also who believe in me through their word. Okay. And so he's talking about the world. He's talking about the elect. And so, and so even there, who he died for, who he will save? Who he will save only the believing ones. That part of it. But then that is not negate the fact that he also paid for everyone else if they say. So that means, then that means Hale has a vacancy sign, right? No, no, no, because he won't believe. Because he won't believe. But if I pay your debt, Corey, nobody can make you repay what I've already paid. What? That's double jeopardy. If I pay your debt, if I pay your, say you owe your mortgage companies, and I go to your mortgage company and say, I'm here to pay Mr. Miner's mortgage in full. They can't come to you because I got the receipt. I got the receipt, I got the deed, and I'm giving it now to you. And they can't come back to you and say, hey, you owe us this money. Well, wait a minute, that's not, but Mr. Wood said he paid for this. No, no, no, no, I'm gonna take your house from you. I'm gonna take your house. I'm gonna garnish you, I'm gonna do, no, when Christ paid for my sins, I don't repay them again in hell because I don't believe, you know? Anyone that Christ died for, they don't go to hell. That's universalism, bro. Any, the death that Christ died, he died for his sheep, he's in effect. I'm not saying that, I'm not speaking of universalism. Okay, let me put this up real quick. I wanna cover some passages. I wanna cover some passages. Absolutely, you go right ahead, sir. You tell me what they said. Now, I know your take on 1st John 2-2. I know you're taking on 1st John 2-2, let's put on screen. I wanna take your argument, why don't you go ahead and explain it. 1st John 2-2 says, and he himself is the propitiation which the word halosimus, which means a payment of our sins. And now, and it does not, it does not connote reception. It can, but it does not necessarily connote reception, but he is the payment, the propitiation of our sins and not for ours only, but also for the whole world. Now, here's the funny part. It'd be very difficult to say that the hours that he's speaking of are Christians. And then the world also is Christians as well. So not for Christians only, but for Christians that makes absolutely no grammatical or syntactical sense whatsoever. Hold on, hold on, hold on. That sounded nice, that sounded nice. But just say what the text says. Who is John talking to, right? He's talking to Christians. He's talking to his believers. He's talking to who? To believers. He says, my little children. So when he says hours, who's the hours he's referring to? He's the propitiation for our sins. He's writing to his- The believers. He's writing to a specific people, right? Yeah, the Christians. So he's talking to a Christian. His little ones that he calls, and John, right? Okay. So he's writing to them, letting them know that Christ is the propitiation, the satisfaction for our sins. Their sins, our sins, and not ours only, but also for those or for the whole world. Are you saying, are you saying that the death of Christ is for every single person? Yes, sir. I'm saying that the payment was made for everybody to, if they want to accept. Nobody can ever- One, two, did you say one, two, accept? Listen what I'm about to tell you. Nobody can ever, ever go before the Lord and say, I didn't have a shot. There was nothing for me when clearly, Jesus, John is not saying I made payment for Christians and then also says not only ours only, but also ours. Tell me how, you don't even speak like that. No one speaks that way. The context basically, clear. You're right. The context basically, he's talking to his followers, but he's not just referring to just his followers because he's saying that Christ didn't just die for you. He died for all kinds of people in the world. It's not every single person that Christ died for because Corey, if that's the case, then no one would go to hell. Another question is, if you're saying the whole world that he made it possible, that's what you're saying, he made salvation possible. Man, that was his intent. Someone's asking me, was that his intent? Oh yeah, he made salvation possible for everybody. But not specific. Not effectively no, but it's possible. He stretched his hands out all day long to a disobedient nation, not because he was just joking, not because, my hands are really, no, they are stretched out, but you will not believe. We know he literally says not for ours only, who are the children? All of the Christians, he's not speaking of all the different types of Christians, all Christians. The white ones are the white ones, the Jewish ones, the Gentile ones, all Christians, technemu, all of them. I'm writing this to you that you do not sin. Not to one specific Christian, but to all Christians. That part, hold on, no problem. He says that if anyone sins, if any of you, if any of you sins, we have an advocate with the Father. That applies to everybody who's a believer, right? So far, so far all of this belongs to every believer. So far the verse one, we're discussing, this includes every Christian, right? Would you agree? Absolutely. Okay, Jesus Christ is the righteous. And he himself is the perpetuation of our sins. So far, it seems to me like he still talks about all the Christians, all inclusive. Then he says, and not for ours only, but for the whole world. That's a heck of a contrast. He, but for, he's the word that's but for it. And also us, Halasimus, Aston Perry, concerning the sins of ours, Uperi, I'm sorry, but the others. I mean, not ours only, alone, he uses them, but Alakai, Perry, but concerning the whole Halu to Cosmo, which is the entirety of the world. So I'm glad you said that then. Let's just, let's just go there then. If you, if you, so you saying the whole world, right? Like, like, like outcast the whole, and the whole world, the whole world, right? Everybody. He made a payment, he made a payment for the whole world. So everybody, everybody's sin was paid for. No, listen, he made payment available. Here's the, here's the, So where does it say, wait, hold on. What does it say available? What does it say? That's, that's literally what the word perpetuation is. Remember, this, So it was made available? Wait a minute, wait a minute. This is an Old Testament concept. This is an Old Covenant concept. Perpetuation was made for, let me ask you a question. Let me ask you a question. When, when the sacrifice was made under the Old Covenant, under the law? Mm-hmm. When the blood was shed, who was it shed for? All of Israel or just certain ones that were believing? So it was those believed, that's what it applied for? No, no, no, no, no. The Atonement, the Atonement? The Atonement was it shed for who? Under the Old Covenant. All of Israel or all, or all, or just those who were believing? Oh, for Israel. It wasn't for the Malachites. It wasn't, it wasn't, it wasn't for the Moabites. It was, now, what if- Did you get my point? No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. No, because you didn't get it. Because could an Amalekite, could an Amalekite, could a Hittite, could a Sojourner also take up this place- We're not talking about this could, we're talking about could. Because the blood was made, as per, people get this issue of perpetuation, doesn't mean that it was effectively taken or tender, I mean, I mean, excepted, I'm making payment. Now, your faith in this payment that I'm making is what's gonna cause you to be saved. Harry, who was the Atonement for? Was it for the entire world? It was, so where was the Amalekites? Anyone that was among them. Stop. Is that correct? No, no, no, no, where were the Amalekites appropriate that? Did the Sidonians appropriate that? Could they have? Was it for a particular, was it for a particular people that the Atonement was appropriate? Okay. Okay. Even with that. Let's go back to Egypt. Let's go back to Egypt. Let's go back to Egypt. There's blood on the doorposts. Who was that applied to? Was that applied to the Egyptians? No. Why not? Because they're blood shortage? They're blood shortage? A question again. Question again. Because here's the point that I'm trying to, because you missed my point. You missed my point, Seiko. You missed my point. My point is, was all of Israel atoned for on the day of Atonement? Was every single Israelite atoned for? Who had this atoned for? Not every single Israelite, no. Not every single one. But was it available for them? Yeah, but we're not talking about that. See, you're going back to the old covenant. I'm dealing with the new covenant and how salvation is appropriated. Christ did not die for everybody because he made it clear. He really didn't say he did. Hold on, he said, he didn't say he did. No, he didn't because he told the Pharisees and said, you're not my sheep. He told the Pharisees you're not my sheep. Okay. I agree with that. Hold on, so how is it that the Pharisees are not his sheep, but he died for the whole world? Okay, let's make it clear. Let's make it real clear. Let's pull up Mr. Paul. Second Corinthians chapter five verse 14. For the love of Christ compels us, having concluded this, that one died, that's Jesus, for all. The word pontoon. Now, somebody's going to want to say that that's not everybody, but let's see. He died for all. Therefore all died. Now, who died? Just the Christians? No, he's not going back and forth between two definitions of all in this passage. He says he died for all, everybody, pontoon. So everybody, so that means in first John five. Hold on, let me finish making my point. You say, if all means all, because if all means all, according to your kind of people, if all means all and that's all, all means, then what do we do? All of them. Wait a second. No, wait a second. Let me finish. Let me finish, let me, listen, listen. Let me finish my point, ballhead man. My point is all does not always mean all. All each, every. Now, here's the question though. Does he switch between the different uses of all in the span of a few words here? Look what he says. Let's put it back on the screen. He says Christ died, concluded that he died, that one died for all. Now, if we're gonna say that he died for all, if you're saying that he only died for a select few, therefore a select few died. No, all died and he died for all so that they, who the ones who might live, I mean, who live might no longer live for themselves. So he's saying how it effectively works for the ones who believe in him, but he died for the whole world. So if he died for the whole world, Corey, if he died for the whole world, no one goes to hell. No, no, only though, no. The sin has been paid for, Corey. The sin has been paid for. That's what I'm asking you. If Christ died for his sheep, he's a matter of fact, he says, I give my life for the sheep. He didn't say I give my life for the world. He says I give my life for the sheep. Just like, just like under the old covenant, by the way, the old covenant atonement is the exact picture we have for the Jews in the new covenant and the Gentiles for salvation day. It's the atonement. Paul even uses that word for the atonement. So now, what we have is the exact same picture. Only difference is we have a better high priest. We have a better scapegoat and we have a better sacrificial offering. Now, if that's the case, when the blood was shed in the camp of the Israelites, when it was shed on the day of atonement, it was made available and you won't find it. You might find, cause there's folks that are cool, you have to, but for the most part, Jewish God will tell you that that blood was shed for all of Israel. However, if one of these Jews there did not want to afflict themselves, did not place faith in what was done, then perpetuation was made, but it did not benefit him. We got the exact same thing. Payment was made, payment was made for those who would then believe. If you believe in the payment that was made, whether you believe or not, does not vitiate the fact that payment was made. Payment was made. You just simply didn't place faith in it. Nothing that we can do can take away the fact that the debt was paid. The debt that God required was paid. You not placing your faith in it, doesn't mean the debt wasn't paid. You placing your faith in acknowledges the debt was paid and beneficial for you, and now you are saved. And so now those who are here are saved because they believe it. If I don't believe, does not nullify the fact that the debt was paid, because I don't believe, does not nullify that the fact that he died for all. Does not nullify the fact that- If he died for all, Corey, if he died for all, why does he not pray and intercede for all? If you're going back to John 17, 9- Listen, I'm going to what Jesus said. He said- About his disciples. And not just about his disciples. We just read what he said in John 17, 20. It ain't just his disciples. He says also for those who believe through their word. And Hebrews chapter 7 verse 25, Hebrews chapter 7 verse 25 said, he forever intercedes for those, not for the world, for his elect. So how does he die for everybody in the mama, but he don't intercede and pray for everybody in the mama? Make that make sense. Well, because he can, let's say, I made this available. Let's just say if what I'm saying is true. If what I'm saying is true, what he did, he made available for everybody. Now I see over here, I got all the folks that actually end up believing. These are the folks that believe. And I'm speaking to them personally. I died for you. I love you. I'm here to save you. Now these other folks over here, they don't think they need me. Now I made it available for them, but they don't think they need me. But I did, listen, I made payment the debt that the father required. If you were to simply place your faith in me, then it's done. You don't have to do anything. Now, the fact that they don't believe does not nullify the fact that I didn't pay the debt for them. They just didn't place faith in the debt that was paid. Just same thing with the very famous pastor we go to, John 316. Jesus says this. Jesus says, he gives an example of as Moses lifted up the serpent in the woods. I mean, the willies. Even so, the son of man must be lifted up that whoever, that the believing ones, whoever the believing ones are will in him have eternal life. So the fact that he was, now the serpent was lifted up for all to see. If you looked upon it and believed, you would be saved. If you didn't look upon it and believe, you wouldn't. But was the serpent lifted up for all to believe? Sure, that's why he goes to verse 16. This is how he loved the world. This is the same way he shows his love for the world. So he used the example of the serpent that Moses fashioned and lifted up. And so he says, so that whoever believes will have eternal life, this is the same way. So in this way, and I'm saying in the same way, because that's literally what it means, in this way, where's verse 16 at in the Greek? He says, who does God wishes? So in this way, this is how, this is the way the guy shows his love for us. That he gave his son, that the believing ones, the ones that are believing in him, they will never perish. So he didn't say that he didn't do it so that those who aren't believing aren't saved. I mean, those who aren't believing, nullifies the fact that he didn't pay the debt. Are you with me? And so matter of fact, You didn't answer my question, Corey. What's your question? Did you hear it? We'll maybe hear it again. Answer it again. Okay. If Christ's death made it possible for everyone to believe, he made it available for everyone. Why doesn't he pray for everyone in the world? Why doesn't he intercede for everyone? If he died for everyone, why doesn't he intercede for everyone? Why doesn't he call the world his sheep? Why is there a- Because they're not, only the sheep are those that are following him. So wait a minute. So he says- Then his sheep does not know what he did. Corey, Corey, he said, I give my life for the sheep. He didn't say I give my life for the world. I give my life for the sheep. He says, he says to, he says- Because? Say go. But wait, but wait, Corey. If he says I give my life for the sheep, when the sheep and world becomes synonymous? Well, because again, now we're talking about the context. In John 10- We're not- Here we are. Here we are. I give my life best if that's the atonement. In John 10, in John 10, he is making a comparison between those that follow him and those that don't. He's saying the ones that follow him are his sheep. Those that don't, you're not my sheep. But he never says that, huh? He says I give my life. And I give my life for them. If you're following me, I give my life. But guess what? Hold on, hold on. But you know what he didn't say? He didn't say that he didn't also turn around and say that I did not give my life for you as well because he said it elsewhere also. He said it clearly who he gave his life for. And actually the church, he says the church is his bride and it was for his blood that he gave his life for his sheep. The church acts chapter 20. It's the church, the called out ones, the ecclesia. It's not the world. It's those who were called out from the world. He didn't die for every single person in the world because if he did, if that's the case, then the Bible says in 1 John 519 that the whole world lies in the lap of the evil one. So are we under the auspices and power of the evil one Satan? Because he says the whole world, just like the same, the same whole world that's in 1 John 2,2 is the same whole world that's in 1 John 519. He says you and I are of God little children and the whole world lieth in the power of the wicked one. So are we, are we in the power and auspices of the wicked one? No, we're not. Obviously there's a clear difference between those who are believing in Him and those who are not. There's not a passage that says he did not. Listen, because I died for you, doesn't necessarily nullify the fact that I, or you can't say that because I said I died for you, doesn't mean that I did not die for Him. You can't, you don't have a passage that says that. When I clearly had- You don't have a passage that says he died for everybody? You don't have a passage that says he died for everybody? I just gave you two, Pseco. But you did not. No, what you did was, what you did was you said, okay, let me put them, let me put them on Calvin's plane. You did the same thing with First John, dude you did with Second Corinthians. You did the same thing. And I- You did the Baton switch. That's all you did. It wasn't the Baton switch, Pseco. What? What it was was Pseco, I took off the Calvinist classes and didn't read- I don't know why you're calling it Calvinist glasses because Calvinist are the one that will say that he only gave propitiation for them. When- Of course. Listen. If he says, if he says in Isaiah 53, all we are like sheep have gone astray. He's turning his own way. And he has called iniquity of us all to fall upon him. Right? Mm-hmm. He also says in Isaiah 53, he says many. It's not every single person. We're past real, let me start and put it on screen. You got Isaiah 53. And I'm not sure, I mean, Roger Sermon said this is the coming from a guy who believes in soul ties. Yeah, I do. I'm not sure what the point is with that. Okay, go ahead. 53, oh, six? Okay, okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, but my point was is that- Which passage, read that again. Isaiah 53, verse 11 and 12. 11 and 12, okay. Yeah. I'm pounding up on my end too, hold on, let me see. I was reading a little smart remark that was in your chat. As a result of the anguish of his soul, he would see it and be satisfied by the knowledge of the righteous when my servant will justify the many as he will bear their iniquities. I agree with that. I agree with that. And I agree that he will only justify, he won't justify all, that doesn't mean that that justification is not available for all. He won't justify all but he died for all? Two different things, Seiko. Two different things. You could, Seiko, dying for you, doesn't mean that it's beneficial for you. Dying for you- So, I'm saying that Christ died for everybody, but not everybody is going to receive the benefit of it? If they believe, if they simply believe, they will, but they won't. So, if they believe, which you believe, they have the power to do apart from Christ? Well, again, if you believe, if you believe, like Jesus says, did I not say that if he says, Ian, if you believe, you will see the Lord. Now the issue is, will you believe? Well, we obviously know that everybody won't believe, but Seiko, if I say, if I say that he made payment, propitiation payment for the world, doesn't mean that I can try to pay my, doesn't mean that I'm now nullified from trying to make the payment myself. Doesn't mean that I'm not- But you're including, so you believe their atonement was unlimited, right? Yes, I don't believe, yeah. I don't believe in limited atonement. I believe in unlimited atonement. Unlimited atonement. So, because you believe the word all means all. I believe all means all. Without question. Okay, thank you. Okay, so then if you mean, if- Ian, in the passage that he used, yeah. Okay, so if all means all, then you believe that the whole world lies in the power of the wicked one. We are in this world. When we go from one verse to the next verse, then obviously the words can kind of change in meaning, but in 2 Corinthians chapter five, verse 14, because sometimes all is the beauty of Greek, the different nuances, all can mean all, each or every or each kind. Sometimes all actually means everybody. Exactly, and how do we know that it means that? Depending on what? The context, right? So let's look at the context. For the love of Christ compels us, having concluded this, that one died for all. Now, the question is, is that all, everybody in the world, or just a few? The problem is, if you're gonna say that this word all means just those who are ultimately gonna believe, then therefore just a few died. But that's not what he's saying. All right, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on. Because we already said that all does not always mean every single person. It can mean some of all types, all kinds. It can mean each every- So are we saying in one verse, in one verse all has two different, so all- A context, that's not what I said. I'm saying the context. You're saying you're believing in universal atonement. No, I, no, look, yeah, I do, I do. If it's unlimited is universal, Corey. Yeah, I agree. No, I thought you're gonna say universalism, because you snuck that in earlier. I'm about to get him to come down there. That's kind of almost implication a little bit too, because you're saying- No, it's not Seco. No, Seco, because I made it available. That means that you placed faith in it. If you're saying that Christ died for the whole world, I'm saying that there's no one whose debt that he paid for goes to hell. That's what I'm saying. I said there's no one's death that Christ paid for goes to hell. He paid it. If he paid that we don't spend eternity in hell, and then you telling me, well, you still have to believe. Okay, well, wait a minute. I know that I have to believe, and he gives me the power to believe if his atoning work was made on my behalf, and I know that if my faith and trust has been placed in him. Okay. If you tell me about a person like Hitler, or whoever that's not saved, who ever is not saved, that Christ died for them, then why would they go to hell? Because they didn't place their faith in trust in Christ. But wait a minute, but if he paid for it already, if the debt has been paid, then they can't go to hell. Okay, well, then Seco, then you and every other Calvinist, you and I'm looking at Baptist, you all quit talking about that faith saves us because it's not. Perpetuation saves us. Stop saying, you must say. It's all encompassing, bro. It's all encompassing. No, no, no, no, no. If you say that faith, faith in what saves us? Faith in what Christ did on my behalf. Okay, so what Christ did, he did whether I believe it or not. I'm sorry? Faith, whatever Christ did, he did whether I believe it or not. That's my point. That's why I reject- Okay, when you say whether I believe it or not, when you say whether I believe it or not, meaning if I don't believe it, that that nullifies what he did on the cross for me? No, no, no, Seco, listen, I think it was happening too. I'm asking. Let me tell you what's happening. Let me tell you what's happening. First of all, first of all, I think you're just, you're not catching this because I think, this is just me, I think that maybe you want this Calvinist doctrine all the way through to be true. I don't know why you're calling this this Calvinist doctrine. Like if you say- Because it is. You just say you're not dunking on it, but you continue to dunk on it. Okay, fine, my point is this, if Christ died for his elect, and he says my- Does it mean he didn't die? I'm sorry? Does it mean if I don't believe, does it mean that he didn't die? No, it doesn't mean that. It means that he still died. That has nothing to do with anything. I'm saying what Christ did, he said my sheep hear my voice, I know them and they follow me and I give them eternal life. John 10, right? And they shall never perish. So he's talking about what he did and what individuals, when they place their faith in trust in him, they will never perish. So if that's the case, you're telling me that, well, he died for all of us, every single person. And if every single person he died for, I'm saying to you, based on what scripture has Christ died for someone and yet they still pay for their sins in hell. You're missing me. You're missing me. I'm gonna say it again. That's the implication. Christ paid the debt, the debt, okay guys, everybody, the debt that God requires. Yes. The debt that he required to satisfy him was blood. Not just any old blood, but his blood. Right. Christ made that payment that whoever the guy is that wants to believe in him, the one that's believing in him will not perish. Because I don't believe in him does not mean that he did not pay the debt that's required by from God to satisfy the debt that I owe. The debt that I owe was paid. I just don't play the place faith in it. I don't do the easiest thing on the planet, which is the place faith in who paid the debt. He paid the debt, the debt's been paid. I take this as just like what he says that he died, he paid a debt, he perpetuated the entire world. Then my faith in that, it's the faith that saved me. The blood in of itself, the blood in of itself does not save me. Faith in the blood saves me. So the blood was made available for anyone who simply has the faith. I believe going back to the beginning though, anyone on the planet can place their faith in this blood. Nobody will today unless their heart has been regenerated. So that's my whole take. I believe that if you stand saved today, you stand saved because Christ paid a debt and then your heart was regenerated to believe in that. The debt was paid prior to you even existing. But then now that you exist and you place your faith in it, you place your faith in what? In the blood. The blood is not gonna evaporate, not gonna go away is not as though it hadn't happened because you don't believe. The fact that you believe, you believe on what the blood did. The blood was given for anybody. The problem is and when we get to heaven or those go to hell, they can't say he didn't die for me. Yes, he did. He died for you. You simply didn't have faith and you had every opportunity to. Well, what about this person? Well, what happened was, God saw that not all eight billion people on the planet are not gonna believe. All the six or seven billion previously are not going to believe on their own. You might seek after him for a minute because the word says that there are none that seek but it's the present active part of simple same as those that believe it. There's no one that's continually seeking into a state of continual seeking. There's none to do that. There are those that might seek for a moment but then that continually seeking. And so, cause God knows that nobody will be justified in saying, but what about me, Lord? No, they won't be able to cause I did everything I possibly could for you. And then you still rejected me. So now what am I gonna do to show how lovely I am? I am going to place my spirit and regenerate some hearts of those who ever I will. Who don't know? He hadn't asked us for our approval on who gets regenerated. I do know this and I agree with you with at least two or three of the other tenants of Tula. But the limited atonement? No. One, because that's really not even how the Jewish old covenant even works. And he didn't. All he did was bring about a new way of it. He made it available for everyone in Israel though they may not have placed their faith in it. And oh, by the way, any sojourner, any foreigner who also wants to place their faith in the old covenant during that time, they also could have been, had their since atonement for and being right standing. I'm not somebody we could have had. I'm talking about who was it for? Well, he made it primarily for Israel, but it was available. Oh, by the way, no, no, no matter fact. You just, okay. You just proved, John. He made it primarily for Israel, right? Not only for Israel alone, but guess what? The whole world, if the whole world. Later on, of course, later on, of course, later. Yes. No, no, no, even then. Because he said salvation was for the Jews. Did he not say that? Was it only Jews that got saved in the old covenant? Corey, you just heard what I just said. No, no, no. I said Jesus said salvation was for the Jews. Of course, he brought in the scope of his redemption plan. When? When did he brought in the scope for him? What do you mean? What do you mean? What did he, when you say when? Okay, salvation was for the Jews first. Yes. Were there other people? Do you believe that salvation was for the Jews first? It was for the Jews first, but guess what? It wasn't for the Jews solely. How do I know that? Yeah, I didn't say that. Okay, so you missed my point. I'm saying to you, I'm saying to you that he had a particular plan for his people. It was for Israel first, the Jews, right? Then Gentiles, okay? So it was not for every single Jew, Romans nine, because not every single Jew in Israel, will you believe with that? That when Paul says therefore all Israel will be saved or do you believe that every single Israelite is going to be saved? No, because he literally goes on and tells which Israelite's going to be saved. Hey, that's my point. That's my point. So all don't always mean all. But sometimes all does mean all, doesn't it say go? When does all mean all? But now when it comes to salvation, now when it comes to his atoning work. But does it refer to all, does all refer to all everybody when it comes to all of us are in sin? All of us have died? Does all mean all then? Oh, Romans three teaches that, of course. Okay, and so does Second Corinthians five, 14. That's what he's talking about. That's what he's talking about. He's not talking about everybody's going to be saved. All right. So Seiko, the point is this, under the old covenant. Yes. And again, it's with us differently in different places. We'll agree with that. And so under the old covenant law, if propitiation was made primarily for Israel, if there were a sojourner, if there were a foreigner who also, who also wanted to place faith in the propitiation made, also be, they would be in the right sense. They would be atoned for. But that was for those who believe, Corey, not for every single person, Corey. Christ did not die for everyone. How do I know that? That's what I'm, you know, Corey, my point though, Seiko. You say a whole world and the whole world means every single person in the context. Because he said the whole world. What Corey, and that's why I say the first John 519. He said the whole world too. So which one? Which one, Corey? He says the whole world of first John 2-2, he says the whole world of first John 519. Same thing. So whole world on me, so whole world on me, every single person there, but it means every single person in first John 2-2, okay, all means sometimes all, sometimes it doesn't, sometimes it means every single person. It's the same John that said in first John 2-2 that he is not just a propitiation for our sins, but for the whole world. He says in first John 519. Hold on one second, hold on one second, Seiko. Seiko, I'm not getting a signal. I think it's buffering, hold on. Yeah, hold on one second. Okay, all right. Yeah, it's buffering. I'm looking at it on my end too. It says YouTube is not receiving enough video to maintain smooth streaming. See, I don't know why it does that, dawg. I don't know why it's doing that. It's definitely buffering. Yeah, it's YouTube, man. Are you still there? Let me go check something. Yeah, cause I'm looking, it's frozen on my end too. It says YouTube is not receiving enough video to maintain smooth streaming. It says YouTube is not receiving enough video. So is it YouTube doing this? I have no idea. I have no idea when you see it, something over here. I don't think it's, no, I don't think it's YouTube. That's what it says on my end. It says YouTube is not receiving enough video to maintain smooth streaming as such viewers will experience buffering. And it says, it asked me to open the widget. Yeah, and I did that. It's starting to move now a little bit. Let's see what's happening. Okay, let me try something. I'll give you a little one second. Try something.