 Yeah, so good morning. Good morning. Like was said, I'm Sebastian by KADOS, a relief organization that was founded in Berlin about one and a half years ago from a sub-cultural context. Partly with a lot of experience and field work, some of us have been doing this for 15 years. We found each other because we didn't like the way things go with many organizations, which is also why we gave ourselves this rather bold title, redefining global solidarity. Which, what's a bit unusual is that I can talk at this venue because IT is about as distant from me as I can imagine. I like just to switch the computer on and be happy if nothing bad happens. But I can actually give a good overview about the current situation and the problems that we are dealing with in the field, as they say. I will try to sketch solutions as well, but to be patient, all the technical terms I found from Wikipedia are in my slides. I think I can fairly easily sketch our problems, but deeper questions will be difficult. I'd be grateful for suggestions and ideas. So let's just briefly outline what we do, what disasters are about, where we are, where we are currently working, and what the problems are that we are facing right now. One of the areas is North Syria, also known as the Kurdish area, the liberated area. Khoshava, hardly anyone works there. Perhaps five organizations can be found. And at the moment, what we do are education projects for paramedics and helpers. Surgery, medical provision is our focus because it's important to give the skills back to this new society. And we are working with the Relief Organization, the Kurdish Crescent. And the other project came from the fact that civil war areas like this, the kebattans do target civil infrastructure. These are pictures from the hospital in Cobain, which you will know from the news, which was completely captured by Islamic State, but then liberated itself again. This is an example of an hospital from Medecins Sans Frontiers, and this is a medical station which, just last week, was flattened. We had been doing education here. Our response was this was a very dangerous area, so to build stationary units there would be difficult, so we are thinking about establishing a mobile hospital. And in Berlin, we are just now rebuilding the first lorry for that for another one. We are somewhat lacking in funds, but we're working on it. So in Iraq and North Syria, we would like a completely mobile unit for security reasons, security of us and our teams. We are also engaging in technical relief. For example, here, fire brigades, firefighting equipment, not just Rojava, because it has to be said, this is not the region that's worst hit. Aleppo, for example, looks much worse at the moment. And our last big area is Lesbos in the Greek island where we have a boat. And it turns out we got in touch with the community on the island itself. You know that there is a huge problem here. You have all these life vests lying around, thousands of them. And we are trying to finance sea rescue in that area. So that's where we are. And these are problems. These slides are in English. The translators, thank you for that. The translators. First example, Haiti, the earthquake in 2010. There was a massive earthquake there with several aftershocks. And for that earthquake, the focus was in Port-au-Prince, the capital. And almost at least 300,000 people died. And many people became homeless. And there was an unprecedented wave of help. It has to be known that infrastructure was completely destroyed, hospitals, radio communications, anything you can imagine, it was all destroyed. And in very short time, countless relief organizations were there. The big problem, the big advantage for Haiti was that the US is very close. And the US does seem to watch how they can establish themselves politically in the area. So they sent lots of divisions and technical equipment with which they could quite quickly set up basic telephone communications. So on Haiti, the problem was not to be able to make telephone calls, but the question was, with whom can I make telephone calls? Who is actually there? Due to the fact that the phone network was completely destroyed, all knowledge that had been there before was completely gone. How can I reach ministries, state institutions, what are the numbers? These had been switched off long term. Of course, the US phone network was completely new on top. And what that prevented at first was that helpers could be supplied, could be brought together with the necessary goods. And what I remember was that I spent two or three days just wandering around aimlessly finding where the large pharmacies are, where relief supplies arrived, and where the material could be picked up. Just that knowledge, it wasn't available by internet. There only was an emergency telephone network, of course. And the next problem then was how can I coordinate with and find the places and the people there that I want to get to? Lots of just spontaneously grown refugee camps, people finding their space where they can feel safe from aftershocks, where they think that nothing will happen. How can I make sure that they're supplied and how can information be relayed? And how can I make sure that that circuit in some way can match? And that did not happen at all in Haiti. In a military, from a monetary point of view, it was a grave for millions of dollars. The relief measures and those affected simply could not be brought together. And to just summarize, more than 900 relief organizations were there in a very short amount of time. After three weeks, it was completely chaotic from small, from large organizations, to so-called mongos, my own NGO, a very popular thing in the US. Christian motivated or people that think they need to do something and set up their relief organization, a couple of people packing mitts and traveling and thinking they can help. You can imagine what the chaotic number of organizations you then have, who then try to get together somehow. In week three, I think it was 12,000 helpers on location, not counting US soldiers. And a lot of different working fields. Not just medicine, building stability, which buildings are prone to collapse, corpse recovery, food. And even within medicine, there are very different areas to consider, long-time care prevention, vaccination is completely chaotic. And all that you know, all the help you can get is from the UN Office for Humanitarian Affairs called cluster meetings. And they take that seriously, 900 organizations. And there's one tent where they put up plans and where 900 organizations are supposed to meet and arrange how they can coordinate their activities and, of course, that won't work, which means that there are several sub-clusters developing, technical clusters, medical clusters, and some of them divided by nationality. The German organizations perhaps go to the German embassy and say this is where the Germans will meet, no one knows why, because nationality is not a sensible way of dividing things. But that's how things are. That's how they were in 2010 and how things still are in new disaster areas. This is for the natural disaster example with the wide-range destruction. Similar things in Syria, Rojava, where we were. If you look at this map, some of you may know it. This is how things are. And if you follow this in the area, the black area looks huge, the IS-controlled area, but it's smaller if you reduce it to the black dots, which are the settlements. The huge parts are just unsettled areas, which is quite easy to capture, of course. The red part is what the Assad government currently occupying. And the green areas are a melange of Syrian rebels. The Free Syrian Army is known in the media, but there are many Islamistic, not quite IS-level, but Islamistic areas. So you don't know which street is controlled by whom. And the yellow areas, meanwhile, from mid-December, are what the democratic forces in the Kurdish forces have liberated. You'd like to think of the evil Kurds, BKK, if you think of Kurds, but there are many more players. There is a large Syrian community. There is Arab units. And they are all under one roof organization, and we're able to liberate this area. Now, you have to think of it in this way. In these areas, there is no state government, no state institutions, and fighting has to take place in all these areas. So what's crazy is that refugees from North Iraq voluntarily go to Syria, because they don't trust the Peshmerga anymore. So this part of Syria, which has partly been destroyed by bombing, contains many more people from the neighboring country, which live in refugee camps per se, don't bring any communication structures apart from their mobile phones. And in the cities, which look this way, this is Cobain, Kobani, and thousands of people living in the ruins. These are not selected photos. This is what it looks like all around. And of course, in here, there is no existing communication structure either. So how do people do it? Internet and telephone only works through the network that seeps in from Turkey. So those with money can count themselves lucky. They can buy SIM cards from Turks. And those that don't are just kept dry. They have nothing. So again, no state structures, no state that in any way would try to get things right, as had has no interest to re-establish communications in this area. No UN, interestingly, no United Nations, which normally is the case with large disaster, because the UN is not the case for the UN because this is a civil war and the Assad government does not give permission. Now, Turkey, of course, is able to switch off networks at will, which does happen that there are extreme clashes in the north, in the Turkish Kurdish areas. And that means that regularly, internet and telephone services are switched off by Turkey, which then, of course, affects the whole area in Syria, which previously was able to use this network. So the whole communication, logistics, infrastructure, where our medical supplies, medical stations, et cetera, et cetera, is broken down to paper and pen, the good old letter communication. And which means that there are handwritten list of phone numbers. You used to have internet-based donation lists, but now we have handwritten ones in the hospitals that they go through. And it goes from one mobile to the other, as long as the Turks are networked works. So by hand, people are trying to call donate donors for specific supplies, completely crazy for 2015. Very hard to imagine. Third example, mass protests. I don't have to say much. The examples are manyfold. Arab Spring, China, Thailand, everywhere where the populations are trying to rise and where our processes of negotiation within more or less democratic protest movements. So if the protest movement, if telecommunications and internet are in the hands of the state, they can be simply switched off. What solutions are there? And now this is the part where you can just reveal my incompetence. FireChat is one of the first providers in mesh networking that work peer-to-peer, if the networks aren't there. They do say they have little experience. The problem with FireChat now is it's all unencrypted. And for mass protest movements, this is not convenient. They say they do want to offer an encrypted service. The problem is it's just a messaging service. So in terms of organization, you haven't gained anything. In areas where the network is switched off, you could start communicating via mesh networks. But the organizational situation doesn't improve by that. Then different approaches, of which I want to introduce two, to use this mesh networking through either an extender or even more complicated hardware. The first one is an Australian project server, which in 2013 had a crowdfunding to fund the radio extenders for the networks. Unfortunately, that crowdfunding was not successful. The idea was that conventional radio communications could be used with those extenders to supply communications in disaster areas. Problem is the same again. But I have communications, but I haven't increased the level of organization. Similar project in Berlin, so-called ingenium project at the Technical University, that went a bit further because they developed an app with the hardware, which is supposed to be used to report problems. I would like to quote their own words from the website. A website, an app, was developed which should enable the people concerned, state institutions, relief organizations to start relief efforts quickly. It's possible to say which streets are intact, where help is needed, and what help has already been given. And this is collected and given to the relevant organizations and put into a map so that extra double efforts can be avoided. The system is sketched or designed in a way that it can stay in the air for up to a week. They talk about being in the air because the extenders can be put into the disaster areas via aerial vehicles. But from a practical point of view in field work, there are several issues that make this a difficult thing. First, this only works in disaster areas that have led to a lot of international interest because it takes equipment which is fairly expensive. Both these projects, the aerial vehicles, the blimps have to be financed somehow. So we need a catastrophe that has led to a lot of media attention or the UN has to be ready to supply the funds. With disasters, that is not always the case. In Syria, it has been the case for three years that the evil Kurds, as they say, in the north were not supplied for three years. And you don't even have to go to civil war areas to see problems. Look at the Philippines in 2013 after the Typhoon in Jolanda. The main area that was hit was an island which was not popular with central government because there was a different organization in control there. So for us as a relief organization working in the field, there was a huge restriction through the fact that state help that should have been and could have been supplied simply wasn't there. So if the UN again wants to get active, they need permission by the state concern. And if the state does not cooperate, the local population has lost. So the other difficult areas, particularly in civil war areas such as Syria, an area of vehicle, non-moving, is of course the first point of attack where sabotage can target. And that would probably happen here as well for this kind of equipment. So in Turkey, IS, Syria, the army, Syrian army, would not be a problem to simply deactivate this very quickly. Right. There is a further method which is collecting data via crowd mapping. There is an app called Usha Hidi, which two, three, four years ago started. I think this is a screenshot from 2000. I did find screenshots from 2010. Huge, fantastic idea, of course. The community onsite can collect this. I want to say about these other projects when they say that data is being collected, analyzed, and forwarded to the relevant organizations. You always have to ask, who does this? And if you rely on an institution, that has to be refinanced all the time. And in some way, this organization gains a lot of control about things then. If I have just one organization valuing which information is important, it gives a lot of power to that organization. With crowd mapping, that would be different. But at the same time, it would be a problem. Because crowd mapping means that everyone and anyone could access this app and make entries, any kind of entries they like to make. And you assume that people in disaster areas would only enter serious information. But you see that humanitarian business, unfortunately, again, is a business, which it's about billions of relief funds. So I'd say that 900 organizations, including small and micro organizations, no certification at all. The expertise is not certified. So just a crowd-only mapping would be a collection of information that would be just as chaotic as the situation was before. So our idea here, from all these approaches, all of them have something good or have addressed the core of the problem with disaster communication. But every time these three areas of communication are not completely covered, perhaps natural disasters in crowd mapping are not very useful because the internet will break down or states willingly hindering communications, or the fact that there is this central organization that has to analyze and forward everything may not exist. So these three problems. We are working with Dr. Thomas Schwatzer from a Berlin-based organization, University. He started something called Sharknet, which went dormant. Because frankly, with Syriza, we just had too much to do to continue this. But we did, at least, come as far as developing ideas for communication in a disaster. At least in the form of mock-ups, we have something. We said that if you do something like this, if you start working this, you have to have a multi-dimensional approach. You have to start by registering organizations, finding which ones are there. But you have to go further and also register the people in the organizations. So if you say Cardo's association is there with three medicals, they may have very different skills and may have different areas of expertise. So it's a huge problem. You have to imagine a mobile hospital after an earthquake. You have anesthesists, and someone with a bad eye injury comes along. So how, within 900 organizations and thousands of volunteers, where I don't know where they come, where they had quarters out, how can I then find an expert doctor? So you don't just have to need to have an organization. You need to know about the individuals as well with the connected skills. Just as an example, what an organization like this could look like. And then the app that we would have to develop would need to give you the ability to match up the offers and the demands so that you could enable the direct communication between the different individuals and that you can request certain skills like a surgeon or a guy who evaluates aesthetics of a building. The whole thing needs to be map-based so you could share the information on a wide scale. So we need a map-based distributed database that needs to work across P2P networks. And on top of the base map that you can just download, you add a little extra information, like this road is blocked, or there's corpses you have to bury, or there's a house that will immediately crash or in the near future. So the data is probably small enough that we can hope to get it across the peer-to-peer network or the mesh networking. And we would support it by the use of Raspberry Pi so that we can create data hotspots. Even in catastrophe areas, there's a certain social structure that manifests. But soon there is an open bar again, and where the locals meet, there are certain hotspots. Where is the airport? Where is the first shop that opens up again? Where can you take a hot shower? Those are areas where, in the near-term future, a lot of the organizations and their members tend to meet up. And it would be nice to map them out on the map so they can actually meet. So to wrap it up, the natural hotspots in disaster areas would be a great use for us, together with the peer-to-peer networking. It would still be very useful to have the app, even if the networks work again. So we can share it on a wider range. You could even use it for yourself. From our own experience, when we try to write a report or a fill out a form, the other organization want to know from us how many camps are there, how many survivors. Those information, this information isn't collected so far, and it would be really nice to save it while we're working there. And we could finally end this era of paper and pen. So that's all from my side. Thank you for listening. And I'm open for questions. OK, I don't exactly know how you do this. OK, the Herald is, of course, taking over. Right. Now for the Q&A. The microphone is open. But first of all, a huge thanks, not just for your talk, but also for your engagement, what you do on-site and for the infrastructure, the communications, what you do to make these things possible. Now the game is always the same Q&A. And also, those watching the stream, please, in the room, you have microphones. I'm going to ask the mic, ask questions to the mics. I don't actually know how you can ask questions on the Internet. I'd love to tell you. There are flyers that I brought, which contains our contact details, if you're interested in helping. We are always happy for people contacting us. So you are very welcome to take them. And there is a donation box as well. OK, my name is Magdalena. I live and work in Hamburg since 1968, and as an economic refugee from North Westphalia. My question is, two questions. Can you, can you, can you compare the kind of area of Syria and the whole continent at war, we could say, with Germany, and about your crisis management worked out in Berlin? I would like to say, imagine a nuclear power station as like Fukushima here in Europe fails and has a disaster. What a scenario and relief program can we expect if politicians and government are not even able to solve the refugee crisis we have right now. That makes me so angry and that I can hardly believe in a positive future anymore. I would like to continue living in Europe for 30 more years. Thank you. I'd be glad if you could answer these two questions. And thanks a lot for this great talk. I'll pass on a lot from this. The first question is easy to answer. Syria should be roughly the size of France, the country itself, but I would just ask Google. The northern border of Syria with Turkey that basically runs up until the east border is about 800 kilometers long. That's roughly the measure you've got to look at. But the second question I can't answer really. That kind of disaster relief is a completely different game in industrialized nations like Germany. There are helping organizations like the technical support groups and the Red Cross. And I don't like the word crisis in this context with the refugees. I actually think this is a very bad word. I don't want to speak from my organization. It's my personal opinion that I want to present. I personally believe that we can support them in a lot better ways than we do right now. And I have experience in that area. It was after the Second World War, there was we put into place a big amount of funds and structure to take care of questions like this. The Red Cross, several different other organizations that are working on disaster reliefs. I think it's a scandal that refugees have to sleep out in the cold at night in Berlin, something that we should really solve. And we actually met a senator from the health administration. And we asked him why we couldn't do a better job at this. And he said, it wouldn't work if we just declared a state of emergency. One of the arguments is that we don't want to declare the immigrants as a catastrophe themselves, just the same as you would have of some flooding in Germany, or? And personally, I think it's wrong to say that we couldn't take care of this with the support structure, because I personally believe that the organizations we have could easily handle a situation if we just wanted to. Maybe on the topic of an actual big disaster, the technical support organization, they have a plan for this kind of thing. And we actually tried to copy it or just look at the answers that they have for dealing with this kind of thing. When you have a disaster, then you have the technical know-how and the resources of the army, of the technical support structures, of the neighboring countries. And it's just a question of accessing them. I see that we have seven more people at the microphones. And do we have questions from the IRC? Two more. So nine questions, 25 minutes. So you can imagine the kind of time scale. I'm wondering, if you put, perhaps, established Wi-Fi access points, how much do you have to hide them? Can these be located by the adversaries and the secret service? And some of them say that they're so insanely competent that you shouldn't even post something on Facebook. Others say, well, they're on the level of, like, the 15th. And if there's any area or any information about the infrastructure that we put in place is a risk, well, definitely we don't mark them in any special way. We don't want to draw attention to them. But if you supply the people there with electricity, water, whatever, anything that is a permanent installation for infrastructure is a target. So in situations like this, there's definitely a problem with having any kind of amount of infrastructure that is visible and that is permanent. So we believe that Raspberry Pi is a really good idea. I'm Carol from the Netherlands, and I have a question. Aren't you forgetting a very large network, which is the amateur radio network? Oh, definitely. I cannot say anything about that. We can definitely get into contact if there is something that we're missing here. For example, the floodings in 1953 in the Netherlands and Britain, the electricity and phone networks were brought down by this. And the radio amateurs reported for days where the places where hospitals where refugees could be received. You mustn't forget that. And this is a second network. OK, one question from the internet, IRC. The first one, to make these systems, this database work, all the big players will have to cooperate. Is that actually realistic? Yeah, I think so. We had that question quite a bit. There is two points that you can work on. Well, first, there is actually an actual interest from the other organizations on this topic. And the second point is that the guys that work in the field, they're actually really interested in that kind of things. The bigger organizations, that's part of my critique on them, they have a big interest in increasing the information that gets out. And they usually want to have their own part that they're working on, where they can present themselves in the media very well. So in general, you probably have difficulty getting to funds. But if it doesn't cost a lot, and if you can just roll it out, then you can easily get it working. And the UNOCHA, they're definitely also interested in that. And they probably wouldn't borrow themselves from it. Regarding building up the infrastructure quite simultaneously through those mesh networks, I was reminded of Freifunk, who with very low cost and a very self-organized network was built. 200, 300 vultas, if you have those, putting them in the field, they're not very visible. The only thing you need is electricity and then have raspberry pies behind that or something not conspicuous. Then I think you have a possibility that for rather uncomplicated communications, even if one of those will be bombed, you just put the next one there. That doesn't make such a difference financially. The other point was the question in what extent the self-developed app was actually capable of liable to be used, had a chance to be used at large. What are the things that you'd develop if they could be suitable for other organizations too? Definitely during the development of the app, we want to involve other organizations. We are one of the few bigger players where we actually believe that we could be a forerunner. We're not arrogant in thinking that we could get them all involved, but we definitely want to get them involved to get their feedback. Then we probably have a mixture of the different opinions on it and get a better solution. Just a small remark about catastrophe disaster protection. I have often experienced that disaster states of emergency are not what they don't want to call those because that would put very different structures and organizations in place. And you know how funding these disaster structures has been reduced over the last few years. Hello. First, thank you for that talk and these nice inspirations. But I'm wondering if you have a distributed peer-to-peer network through an infrastructure. To what extent do you protect the helpers and organizations from being abused as targets for attacks for the warring parties? That's a very good question. Well, you have to look at the concrete case where you would use it. Think about actual natural disaster. In this case, you definitely want it to be spread in Syria. Well, that's a whole different topic. We're working on that. There's probably going to be some security protocol that prevents this kind of scenario that you were discussing. And it's still an open question. I'm very interested in that topic, just as you are. I would really want to have an IT guy with me right now. Yeah, the other person has already said the UNHCR has case studies about, I don't know what the question was about. Freifunk is very important, I think, because it's half-passive. You can work with that well, semi-passive. And the most used cases that you were talking about were from the 50s to 70s and 80s. They had much easier technology with land-based cables and such that, on the ground, could be repaired by local smiths. So that will spread it. And about the data, you have to encrypt the data in the app because that would otherwise give you death lists. And about the refugee crisis, the thing with the large organizations, they work on invitation. So much of the infrastructure cannot be put in place unless the state asks for it. And as far as I know, there have been requests from civil society for them to be prepared, but they were not allowed. That was definitely a critique at the stake. Or I meant it as my point of critique for the state. We have five more questions, 15 minutes. OK, I'll try to be short. My question concerns not the disaster part, but the conflict part of your work, two different areas, in fact. And it's about the protection of the civil need for security from the concerns of local protest organizations, the way that NGOs, in the case of your NGO or in general, protect civil society from disastrous consequences of the activities of disaster organizations. I repeat. Sorry, I'm always nervous. But I'll try again. And I'll explain the question later. How can the organizations protect the civil society from the consequences of Western relief organizations' activities? I'll explain that using a schematic for activism, human rights, social activism, can be divided into different points. First of all, there's the actual issue. Then there's the path and the goal. NGOs that work with protest movements in the Arab world and supported those, they have the aim to protect the people from state repression, and the strategy they follow is to establish infrastructures. And the aim then is to support human rights and democracy. Sorry, if I interrupt you, just give us the question. There are four or five more. No monologues, please. But please get to the question. In the case of Syria, the question is how in the future can you prevent Western NGOs, prevent that Western NGOs make promises to local activists, which are then not kept an example before the first Syrian conflict escalated. There was investment into communications structures through Avaaz, for example, but then also there were external actors, other states that wanted to destabilize the state. How in the future can you? I cannot say a lot about that. I'm definitely not very informed about this kind of thing. Thanks a lot for the question. We'll move on. Question from the internet, and then we'll go around in the room. I remarked first from Twitter in Syria, 28.7% of the area of France, just to compare. And are there cases of sabotage by or against relief organizations? Yes, just like I showed before, the hospital from Dr. Zerob Borders and the other hospital that you saw earlier. It's definitely a problem that the IS targets the NGOs in order to create a state of panic and in order to get them to withdraw from the area. And it actually, they succeeded. In Aleppo, no one works there anymore. I wouldn't dare going there. And in the case of MSF, they're not even allowed to stay in Kobane for longer than a few days. And they have to probably leave every day to go to the Turkish state. And this is definitely a result of this kind of attack. Dear colleague, thanks a lot for the info. 28% is the area of Syria, 28% of France. Now, about flying doctors. How can these relief organizations move not with a Cessna, I guess? In Syria, you mean? Yeah. Well, cars have been invented. In Syria, there is no air traffic other than the actual air force of Assad. So in other words, if they are ordered to be called on from wherever, they may be not able to reach the area at all. Because what do you think? The relief forces, like flying doctors, if they are asked to help, sorry, that I express myself this way, if you call upon them, then surely they cannot then reach the target in a certain amount of time, because it's such an effort by car, as you say, or lorry, whether they carry supplies or not. A logistical problem. Well, definitely, if you look at the areas where you actually need an emergency response vehicle, it's a problem getting there, definitely. Well, it's an era of war. OK, back right. Talking of pen and paper, we have this fantastic smartphone technology now, we'd like to use it. But even before then, there was relief activities. Now, what about the competencies and capabilities from that time? Are they being used? And the thing that you described in Haiti is that has all this broken down? And could they perhaps be connected using this conventional way? Well, you have to see that the actual landscape of disaster relief has changed a lot over the last decades. There have been a lot of new NGOs that were created during the 80s. There were a few big NGOs in the past. And there was a lot of critique on the way they worked. And then there were a lot of new NGOs that were created. And you see that there is the sheer number of the 900 NGOs that were working in Haiti is mind-boggling. And the chaos actually came from the sheer number of the NGOs that were there. Thank you. Now, let's go to the question from the internet and any other questions you can ask later. Surely you'll be here in the room for a while. Your internet. OK, two more questions. Have you assessed the scalability of all these people are in radio networks? Indeed, there's a debate about who do you actually want to enable in this way? Who do you want to get into contact with? And I'm very critical of these kind of one man NGOs that just go into the disaster areas with a suitcase full of pharmaceuticals. It's definitely not very interesting to get those hooked up. But if there are individuals that are very highly skilled, then they will not just end up there. And if you have someone like a surgeon or like an engineer, they definitely don't just quit their job and travel there. There will always be people that you won't reach with this kind of network, of course. Second question, as continuing from earlier, that there has been sabotage, has there been sabotage between relief organizations? I wouldn't call it sabotage. There are scenes that are definitely not very constructive. In Haiti, there was kind of a gold rush. They actually stake their own claims. And we were kind of helpless watching how the organizations were fighting on the organizational level. And there was definitely not a very constructive way of working together. And the organizations in the humanitarian sector definitely live on donations. So they're fighting over that resource. I wouldn't call it sabotage. But I have a question about the Mobile Hospital. It happens during the wartime that friendly military units actually hit their own hospitals. How good is the communication between the military and the hospitals here? How do you ensure that you don't hit them? Well, a certain risk remains. You know, the case of medicine in Saint-François-Docs with their borders and the military in France, the French military. Actually, it was communicated where this hospital was. And it is the case that in the North Syrian areas, there was a good communication because people know each other and have been working with each other for a long time. So the local militia can be told where we are and where we do not like to be shelled. But in North Syria, it's not the case. You imagine that there's fighting everywhere. And anywhere, the area that I showed earlier is completely pacified from fighting. And the places where there are borders between the areas, that's where the fighting is. So if you're not as crazy as putting up a mobile hospital in those areas, but where these civil societies, they don't normally hang around in the frontier areas, then you have individual attacks, terrorist attacks as the main problem, or whatever you want to call them. So they're making it much harder to plan attacks. Last but not least, thanks for your efforts. There's a lot of courage, I guess, required to do things like that. And you can hear I'm from Austria. And I come from this area where many, many refugees cross borders now. And the question I'm asking myself is there's a lot of relief organizations or people. How do your shifts change? How can you find some time to relax sometimes? I cannot give you a definite answer on this. This is very dependent on the organization you're working in. I know the doctors are about borders. They usually, during their shifts in the area, they usually have three months that they have to plan for. Every organization, of course, has their own safety protocol with this. But since we're completely a volunteer organization, we cannot really have a lot of say in this. We just usually try not to stay longer than two or three weeks in the area of crisis. But during the refugee crisis, and I don't want to call it, but you can plan it in a whole different level. And going back to normality is really easy. You just go to some shelter and you're out there in a disaster area, not possible. And it's definitely very up to the organization. The refugee question, they relied a lot on volunteers. There are people who have been working in this area around the border that have been working for months at a time. Well, thanks a lot to you anyway. OK, now last question from the left, just in time. Can you hear me? Yeah, OK. The whole relief business is, of course, a bit community-driven, at least if you consider donations. Now, to the technical aspect of your solutions, I was missing the term open source community. Are you active in that field as well to find technically skilled people from the open source community? Definitely. I don't know the term, but if I understand you correctly, we definitely do. We try to recruit different people from basically anywhere. And it's a very colorful mixture that we have. And yeah, definitely. OK, great. That finishes the first talk of the day in Room 6. And also our translation. I hope you've been able to follow this. Applauds to Sebastian Jürman. And perhaps also applause to Sebastian the translator, the other translator. Thank you.