 This is Think Tech Hawaii, Community Matters here. Okay, we're back, we're live, and here we are, fabulous, talking again to Carlos Juarez. Carlos, he left us a year ago to go to Mexico, Mexico City. And now we find that he's on a trip from Mexico City on a fulbright in Goa, Goa, India. Then he's a fulbright Nehru scholar in BITS. We'll find out what that is in a minute in what, Pilana Goa Campus in India. Carlos Juarez, Global Connections Indeed. Welcome back, Carlos. We'd love to have you on the show. Well, thank you, Jay, and welcome. Welcome to our listeners, and of course to all of you there. I'm really excited to reconnect and share with you some of my latest travels and travails. And here I am in Goa, India, on the other side of the planet. And actually, as we speak now, I'm actually calling you from the future because it's Wednesday morning here. And there's, what, Tuesday evening for you there in Hawaii. You are about as far away from Hawaii as any place on the planet, I must say. You can't get further than this. That's possible, right? And that's why we're doing Skype audio rather than Skype video because the connection's not exactly that good. But we are calling this show, if you don't mind, Carlos, Go, Go, Goa. Wonderful. Well, tell us how it's been. Last time we knew you were in Mexico, Mexico City doing academic things there, living the good life. But now you've moved on, at least for a while, to your fulbright in Goa. Tell us about it. Well, yes, Jay, as you and some of our listeners may know, fulbright is a program sponsored by the U.S. government. And it works closely with most countries of the world, I think, over 170, 180. And it's a program of international educational exchange. And so I'm here for the fall semester for about five, six months, essentially as a visiting professor. And the program known as the fulbright NERU program. Of course, NERU being one of the founders of modern India. And this coming week and a few more days, India will celebrate 70 years from its independence. So it's a big holiday here next week. And I'm delighted to be part of this. It's effectively like a cultural ambassador. I'm here helping to understand about this country, also teach about it. And so I'm affiliated with the university here in the city of Goa. And we'll talk a little bit about Goa, because it's a fascinating place. Actually shares a lot of interesting things with Hawaii, given the Portuguese legacy here, but also the connection there in Hawaii. Well, where is it exactly? Can you give us sort of a geographical positioning on where it is in India? Yes, of course. And if you know, we think of India, you know, somewhat shaped like a cone, like an ice-cream cone. And this would be on the west coast, about halfway in the middle, roughly. It is considered South India, because India is a very large country. And a good part of it, you know, goes into the northern part. So it is on the west coast, the Arabian Sea. It's a large port city. And for about 450 years, it was part of the Portuguese Empire, an overseas empire. And this was their main headquarters in the South Asia subcontinent. So today, Goa is a very small state, the smallest state of India, just under 2 million people. And it only joined the country of India in 1961. So after India was independent in 1947, it took over a decade of negotiations for the Portuguese to finally let it go. And so here it is today, a small, popular destination for tourism, famous for its beaches, for a very relaxed lifestyle. It shares a lot of what Hawaii has, that very easygoing lifestyle. You know, Carlos, I was in Portugal in Lisbon not quite a year ago. And, you know, they're very proud of their explorations around the world. They're very proud of Goa. Absolutely. And, you know, we think of, well, today we know Portugal to be a relatively small European country. It's not, you know, one of the heavy players. Even neighboring Spain is a larger country by any measure. But Portugal in the 17th, 16th century was a pretty significant overseas empire in parts of Africa, Asia, you know, and of course here in this place of Goa was their headquarters for this region. And they do have, in fact, a large community of Goans who live back in Portugal today. And the legacy is here. I mean, after 450 years, it's hard to not have it. However, one thing that's interesting is while Portuguese was spoken here during much of that time, today you only find it spoken among the very older generation. Most of it, now it's more than 50 years since they're independent. And so you don't have too much spoken here. However, the legacy is very real in terms of architecture, in terms of the cuisine. And I've had a chance to send some photos just to give a snapshot of... Yeah, why don't you pull some of them out and replace some of the photos? In the region of India, you've got this Portuguese architecture that looks like it's frozen in time. A number of different, you know, buildings and mansions and homes and churches. You know, India is an overwhelmingly Hindu population, but here in the state of Goa, about 30% of the population is, in fact, Christian or Catholic. Interesting. So it's a pretty significant part of the population here locally. Well, let's look at some of those photos. You sent them along. Here's one. It looks like tiles. It looks like a house built of big tiles. What is all that about? You know, in the city of Panjim, which is the main city of Goa, what you have here is a very beautiful impressive. I mean, it's like a massive style of tiles. I mean, you'll see evidence of the Portuguese and this would be one very interesting example. But beyond that, you have, again, a number of mansions that reflect the... And just even the most typical homes that are now, you know, because of the tropical environment, they get a lot of, you know, worn down and lots of mold and then, you know, these plants everywhere. So it's a very exotic look. Yeah. But quite fascinating. When we were in Portugal, we saw houses like this. And we saw tiles like this everywhere. It's an art form in Portugal as a unique art form. You don't find it anywhere else. And so, well, I suppose you find it in various forms in other places. But in Portugal, it's very distinct. And so this is very Portuguese. It's designed as this house. What else have we got in the photos? You know, another aspect is what's fascinating is the syncretism or the blending of, essentially, let's say Catholic architecture or churches together with Hindus. So you'll have Hindu temples and there's one of them in there that is an example where it actually has, again, more of the Catholic look in terms of the style. But it is, in fact, a Hindu temple. And so it is the syncretism that you see throughout. To the extent that people here will celebrate the holidays. The Catholics will celebrate Hindu traditions and vice versa. And even a Muslim community here. So there's just a very interesting laboratory of how these three major religions come together here in celebration. Now, this is a very nice temple. I really like the architecture. It's got a very sturdy look to it. And it doesn't look that old. Can you date it for us? Before me here. This will tend to be from the 17th and 18th century. The Portuguese first arrived in 1510, actually 1498. I'm sorry 1498 Vasco de Gama is the first explorer who comes here. But in 1510 they formally make it part of their empire and in Goa specifically. And so, you know, after 450 years, but much of the construction would begin the 17th century and into the 18th century. But again, the style would remain. So even buildings done in the last 1500 years would all maintain this fascinating architectural style. You mentioned Vasco de Gama. He is the biggest hero in Portugal. There are a lot of heroes in Portugal, but he is the biggest one. Indeed. And it is the name of the port city here that is kind of like a little more of an industrial, pretty rough part of town. But it's a big port city and a protocol for some cruise ships. And it's the closest town here to me where I am. And just to mention you had cited my affiliation here, I'm actually a visiting professor here at an engineering school, a science and technology school. It's called the Birla, B-I-R-L-A, the Birla Institute of Technology and Science. Or it's a abbreviation BITS. And this is one of their four campuses. They have the main campuses closer to Delhi. They have another one of Hyderabad and a fourth campus in Dubai. And so this campus in Goa is one of their top engineering schools in India. And I have the opportunity here as a social scientist to teach these future leaders of India. These are engineering and science students. Quite a fascinating experience for me as well. You must be related to Mr. Fulbright. It is. I must say these are very rare and competitive awards. I've been very fortunate to have now my fourth one. Initially, from Hawaii, I was at HPU and I went to Mexico back in the year 2000. And then I had two grants to the Czech Republic, 2003 and 2005. And you'll recall a little over two years ago, two and a half years ago, I was in Austria. And that was another Fulbright grant. So this is yet one more. I can't say I'm related, but maybe I have a good understanding of one of the important roles of Fulbright. It's not just a boondoggle to come and study, but you really do need to try to help connect and build bridges and have sort of long term outcomes. So my goal here aside from teaching is to really develop some collaboration, some links, and to help them understand and make sense of our country. And this is of course an interesting time to do that because Indians are very curious and they have a lot of opinions about what's happening in the world and no doubt what's happening in the U.S. as well. Yeah, well, I think it goes to a point we talked about briefly before the show and that is that travel is education and you can't be fully educated without travel. And maybe Americans don't travel enough because once you get out there, you'll be able to see the way the country looks from the outside in. But that gives you another viewpoint that you really need to have, don't you think? Oh, absolutely. You can learn a lot from reading and even the fact is you don't have to see the world. It'll come to you, right? Anywhere you go, the world is basically staring at you and coming to you. But there is no substitute to going out, living, experiencing, learning the local cultures, eating the food and smelling the flowers because that really immerses you and it forces you to think differently. Again, you put yourself out of your comfort zone, but you also both appreciate how things are done elsewhere and you've come to gain respect and admiration because everywhere you go, people are doing things and sometimes they do it like you, sometimes they do it differently and you can't help but ask questions and be fascinated by that. And I think ultimately we talked a moment about the syncretism, this mixture. That's what you get fascinated by here because it blends the European culture that was brought here with the local indigenous cultures and so today it has created a very unique place here in Goa and there are a lot of other pockets like that, but this one in particular really is quite an interesting mixture of these major cultures. It's the vitality of diversity which we know is the most important thing for good thinking and globalism. Let's take a short break, Carlos. We'll take one minute break and I want to call Congress and tell them that they ought to think in terms of diversity also and that they should do more traveling. We'll be back right after that one minute with Carlos Juarez. He joins us by Skype Audio from Goa, India. We'll be right back. This is Think Tech Hawaii, raising public awareness. We have this crazy thing going on today. I was just walking by and all these DJs and producers are set up all around the city. I just walked by and I said, what's happening, guys? They told me they were making music. They had their musical talent and then sat down and kind of played to make a really nice sound. So we'll do it. We're back. We're live with Carlos Juarez, an old friend who joins us by Skype Audio from Goa, India. He's there on a Fulbright. It's the Fulbright Nehru Scholar Scholarship Program at BITS in Pilani, Goa Campus, India. We are so happy to talk to him. Carlos, one of the things that's really valuable is your way, and you've done this in other places through Fulbright and otherwise, to engage with people and to learn the essence of the place and the people where you are. We've talked to you in some of those places from Europe a year or two ago, and I've always enjoyed our conversations. Now we have a sort of fresh asset here in terms of dealing with the people in Goa. So tell us about them. Tell us about your interaction with them. You mentioned that they were curious in all this. Are they like the Indians in Bangalore? You know, heavily involved in tech? Or is it something else? Well, as I said earlier, this is a technology school, a science and engineering place. And I was a little bit flabbergasted to say that when I have a class right now with about 60, 65 students, and actually it turns out not a single one of them is from Goa. I was a little disappointed to be honest. But what it is, this is a very elite competitive school. You know, the admissions are very rigorous. And so the students come from all parts of India, which I think itself is an interesting laboratory because they come here and they meet people from places that they've never been to. India is a massive country, 1.3 billion, so you can imagine just the diversity itself. But anyways, what these students do share in common as these are gifted, you know, educated young leaders, they have a pretty good understanding of global issues. I'm really impressed and that's part of what I'm here to also research about. What is it that's allowing them to learn so much about the world? Well, of course, they grow up with technology that gives them clear links, but as well the kind of mobility that, frankly, their parents and grandparents simply didn't have. And this is true everywhere today. But, you know, India has a huge diaspora community. Indians, you know, who are people of Indian origin who live especially in the UK and all over parts of the United States. And interesting that that community is now more and more connected back here. So many of these will have relatives or family who have lived in the US or the UK and now come back. But these students, they have a, even though they're studying, you know, chemical engineering or computer science, I'm impressed that they have a pretty good understanding of what's happening in the world. And, you know, they read voraciously, they ask questions. I think it's fair to say, especially, again, we're talking about these elites. These are not the average Indian, but they really get a very solid education that forces them to think critically about the world. I think from the perspective of the United States, it's a little worrying because these are people who are going to be, at the end of the day, eating our lunch, so to speak. They're going to be making decisions that are going to impact us. But they have a pretty good understanding of it, a different perspective, of course, from where they sit. But a very deep knowledge of what's happening in the world. So at any given day, they're asking me questions about what's happening with the, you know, the Trump investigations or what is happening about North Korea. And these are students of science that, traditionally, you wouldn't expect them to be thinking about global social political issues. Yeah. Well, you know, it's funny, I just came back from a trip in the inner passage on the cruise ship in Alaska. And the Norwegian flag, it was the Norwegian sun in the ship. And the Indians were well represented on the ship. They were well represented among the passengers. There were at least a plurality there. And they were well represented among the crew. And it goes to your point about how they like to travel and learn about, you know, places far away, how they like to be global in their thinking. And it was indeed, they were true. They were, that was true for them. And they were a substantial part of the social structure of the ship. And so, you know, I think that India has a great future going forward. And the question I put to you was, how do they feel about their future? Do you see them traveling more? Do you see them getting involved in enterprises that are global rather than just Indian? Do you see them making, you know, making enterprises that are profitable around the world? Well, I mean, yes and yes. I mean, I want to say that what I'm fascinated is that while they have, I think, this global connection, if you will, through, you know, the communities that are all around the world and just their own education here, what I'm also, I think, impressed with is there is a very strong social conscience, if you will, and maybe put it a different way, there's a deep appreciation of their culture and how important it is for them to maintain that. While they are well, you know, westernized in some level and deeply connected to the world, at their core they have a sense of identity of what culture they come from. And while it is India and there's a sense of that as a national pride, it's even deeper than that. It's more, you know, what part of India or what, you know, what culture within India. So it's these multiple identities that they hold and that they can walk these different circles, whether it's on a cruise boat in Alaska or, you know, a high-tech company in the Silicon Valley. They are able to walk these many circles of, you know, of the world. It really is impressive and, you know, it speaks to the deep links that this part of the world has had for centuries now and now they're doing it on their terms, which is, I think, even more fascinating. Yeah, and Goa was probably part of that, to connect them with Europe. And so I just, I wonder also, you know, how they feel about their own government. You talked about their sort of sense of self-identity. How do they feel about Mr. Modi, Narendra Modi? Are they happy with him? Is that contentious? He's made some good moves and maybe some bad moves. What's the sense of the people? Well, you know, I was speaking precisely about that just the other day and I want to say on one hand I think there is a general sense of pride and I speak to whether it's the taxi driver or the educated college student, they are aware that this leader that they have at the moment, the Prime Minister Narendra Modi, he is moving forward with a lot of dynamism, a lot of strategic thinking. He is trying to put India first in their own way and I think there's a sense of admiration for that because he is a pretty dynamic leader relative to other recent ones. Now, does he have controversy of course? And there will be some who might look at his autocratic tendencies or maybe they're more critical of his pretty strong Hindu nationalism. But I want to say by and large my feeling is that there is a sense of pride about him. You know, and even an understanding that while he may share some authoritarian tendencies with our current president, there's a world of difference in terms of just the sheer competence and maybe level of sophistication. This guy, he's doing it in their own let's say Hindu nationalist way but I see a sense of pride among them and as I said earlier they're about to celebrate Independence Day and there seems to be a resurgence of nationalism and as I teach the students over and over, nationalism can be a very good thing. Of course for unity and pride, of course it can also be a double-edged sword. It can be the kind of thing that pushes violence and often leads us to some uglier aspects. So they need to be aware of that. I think they are. But overall my sense is that Modi is seen with considerable pride and relatively positive that he's really trying to do things to improve the country. Yeah, great. Now what about their neighbors? They have, you know, to the northwest they have Pakistan which is on the border of Jewis Afghanistan and all the trouble in Iran. How do they feel about that? Is that a threat? I mean, after all we had an attack in Mumbai a few years ago. Is there a worrying about terrorism? Is there worrying about a spillover of violence from the Middle East and Central Asia? Well, my short answer would be not quite. Not what you see, let's say in Europe where it's a very real reality if you're traveling in Paris or Belgium or, you know, London. But nevertheless there is an awareness that there are tensions in the neighborhood. Yes, China is the other traditional rival and there are some. As we speak now in the last few weeks, a bit of tension up in the border area with China. And China has most recently bought out some large port facilities in the neighboring Sri Lanka and while the Chinese argue it's all about their commercial interests, of course India sees it as, you know, really they're getting a foothold, just a stone's throw away. And then there's Pakistan, the perennial, you know, tension at the border. And yet I see Pakistan as a very complex issue because, you know, the partition now literally 70 years ago also divided so many families. So there are many here who still have those links, perhaps now several generations old. But no doubt the neighborhood is tense. However, I want to say people's daily lives here and there's not a sense of, you know, fear or insecurity. They're not living as if, you know, this is a place that's going to be attacked. You mentioned the Mumbai attacks. I think it was about some six, seven years ago quite dramatic, no doubt. But by and large that was an aberration, an exception. Where you have violence it tends to be more localized and really between very hard-line Hindu nationalists often taking on some Muslim communities. And the other violence which has also surprised me is because of the Muslim, I'm sorry, not Muslim, the Hindu ban on beef. There's been a bit of violence about those who either manufacture or sell and market beef. And so they've been attacked by some hard-line nationalists. And beyond that, no, I want to say in general the places focus more on just local regional issues and yet aware that the world out there is a pretty dangerous place in parts of the world. Well, you know, Thomas Friedman recently wrote a book or released, published a book called Thanks for Being Late in which he covers his view of various continents and geopolitical issues around the world. And he covers the migrant issue, of course. I mean, it has to be covered these days. And so you have one-third of all the migrants coming to Europe coming from the Middle East. You have two-thirds of them coming from Africa, sub-Saharan Africa. But what's interesting is the migrants are not coming to India. Are people worried about that? Or is there an effort, some kind of initiative to try to prevent them or possibly incentivize them to come to? What is the government's position on that? Well, I haven't looked at it in detail. My quick gut feeling is that it's not so much an issue. This is a place that has abundant labor. There's just, you know, a lot of people and they don't have the knee that you see in many of the parts, let's say, of Europe and even the U.S., where there's an important pool for migrant workers. So it doesn't exist here. There are, of course, migrants, yes. And many of these port cities have had a tradition of that. If anything, what I think is happening is more of a return migration of those Indians who had left and gone a generation ago. If you moved to, you know, to London, you made it a permanent move. Now you can go for studies and come back and have job opportunities here. So there's a growing sort of capital, we would call it like a reverse brain drain, where many who have had experience in the West are now seeing opportunities to live and to maintain your culture and live at home and work here and still be connected to the global economy. I would be remiss if I didn't ask you how you are. The diaspora community itself, not really large numbers. And yet this place has a history of migrants who came, whether it was from the Middle East itself, even parts of Africa, but especially from, you know, Europe through the period of colonial rule. But not an issue of African migrants really. Instead, I think what you have are huge communities of Indians who live in the Middle East, for example. This university has its own campus in Dubai and mainly it's focused to reach out to the Indian community that's there. And so just a good example of the connections that they have with their own communities abroad. Well, let me ask you what they think about, and you alluded to this a minute ago, about Trump and about American politics and the shenanigans in Congress. And for that matter, the relationship of the public and the government in the U.S. because it's in transition, some say even transformation. Are the Indians thinking about that? Are these students aware of the fine points of that? Do they have any views that they've expressed to you? Well, yes. And for the most part, and these are the more outspoken ones in class that are discussing it, what they see, I think, and it comes from popular media from the news, whether it's fake or real. And that is that there's a deep divide in the U.S. and that there are some real, very real social challenges and issues, whether it's the opioid crisis or the plight of, especially issues like the plight for African Americans and how it is a very different world than it might be for others. So they are aware of these kind of social tensions and conflicts. And indeed, I would say they highlight them in a way that kind of is very critical. I've had other experiences coming here in India, and in general, they're very, very political animals. They like to challenge you. They like to push you against the wall, and they don't hesitate about that. And so many of the views I hear tend to be about this perspective, rather critical of U.S. society, that we are not this beacon on the hill. And I think that's where some of the danger lies, that we've seen this erosion of what does the U.S. stand for? I mean, for much of the world, it has always been a place where you can bring your tired and hungry and the immigrant story. Today, that's probably becoming under more question about, well, wait a minute, look at how migrants are being treated or look at how minorities suffer from discrimination. So I think there's a keen awareness of that here. Well, you mentioned China, and of course China is always trying to expand its influence, including with soft power maneuvers in various countries in and around India. And I wonder how people feel about China vis-à-vis the United States, especially in the time of Trump. Are they still our best buddy? Do they still see the U.S. as their better friend, better friend than China? How do you feel about that? How do they feel about that? My gut feeling is that there's a distinction between what would be called maybe the U.S. government and maybe the current administration. Obviously, there's a public, Bill Wilderman. There's confusion about it. There's a sense that right now it may not be clear what that relationship should be. And maybe different from, you know, those who had opportunities, you know, to travel and study. I mean, the U.S. will always be a place that attracts the best and brightest to come to our universities, et cetera. But in terms of the government-to-government relations, at the moment, a bit mixed. There was a lot of hope. Maybe I wouldn't say hope, but maybe early expectation that the two leaders coming together, Modi and Trump, you know, would be able to foster cooperation. And on some level, it is there. But my sense is that there's a little bit of an awareness that you can't be sure what's going to happen. And what that means, I think, is that India, just like today is happening in a place like Mexico and other parts of the world, they're looking elsewhere. They're looking to realize that maybe the U.S., at the moment, you know, looking inward, is not going to be the place that's going to help solve all our problems. And so I think for India, much like China, it's an opportunity for them to put their energy in other areas. And there is a very mixed love-hate relationship with China because while there are tensions and there are competition, there's also a growing connection of cooperation. And China is taking the lead, but it is developing this very ambitious project to connect much of this world and develop infrastructure specifically, and part of that connects with India as well. So it's a real mixed bag, but I think India sees the troubles and travails in the U.S. as an opportunity to look elsewhere. Well, Carlos, it seems to me that you're more than an academic these days. In the circumstances, you're more than a scholar, more than a Fulbright scholar, more than a teacher, more than a person who exchanges with the local students. You are a citizen diplomat, that's what you are. You represent the United States, even though you're spending your time in Mexico. Do you see it that way? Let me add to that that I think what you're doing with these type of shows over the years now is you're helping to really connect us all in a way that brings the world closer and underscores how deeply connected all of us are, where we are in the world. Amen to that. Feel very close to you, even though you're a half a world away in Goa. Thank you so much, Carlos. It's been wonderful to talk to you. I hope we can do it again soon. Yes, of course, Jane. Thank you and all your listeners, and I will make it back to Hawaii soon enough to visit you there again in person. Aloha. Thanks so much. Aloha.