 Welcome to ITU Telecom World 2018 here in Durban, South Africa. We're very pleased to be joining the studio today by Ashraf Patel, who is Digital Economy Associate for the Institute of Global Dialogue at the University of South Africa. Ashraf, welcome to the studio. Good morning, Max. Thank you. Now, I'd like to start off by talking about smart digital transformation. What does that mean to you? Well, within a developing economy or nation such as South Africa, it means multiple things. In our view, it's about meeting the UN sustainable development goals, as well as ensuring there is high level of inclusion in the digital economy. And those would be the key drivers in my view, but also taking into consideration the importance of youth and women. How do we integrate the youth and women who comprises the majority of the population in South Africa and Africa? What are your answers to that, then? Well, I would say first and foremost, let's start with the youth. The youth comprises of about 40% of the population, and it's very important that they be productive and are developed with new skills for the 21st century. So I see enabling or re-skilling youth with the correct skills so that they are absorbed into the digital economy. With regards to women, I think large chunks of women in the peri-urban areas and rural areas are largely excluded from the digital information economy, and there is scope to develop programs and opportunities for women to participate in the economy. And what about innovation? How can one increase and encourage innovation? And what do you think is going to be the most transformative? Well, I think innovation is the driver of potential economic opportunity. South Africans are well known to be innovators. We developed multiple innovations over the years. A good example is Mark Shuttleworth. Many years ago, he developed an innovation and he onsold it and he became very wealthy. In South Africa, we've got many youth in the townships that are innovating, but they do need incubation support so that they can take that innovation and take it to market. So I would say that's one of the challenges. And in my view, innovation should be what I call an open ecosystem approach, meaning that there should be opportunities for the youth and entrepreneurs to innovate at a low cost. And that would be the key driver. And what's the fourth industrial revolution going to look like in South Africa in the next five years, I'd say? Very good question. The debate is on. Our president, Cyril Ramaphosa, on Monday, talked about the formation of an ICT Fourth Industrial Revolution Commission. And that is going to be a key driver. And I think there is leadership at the highest levels in South Africa and our president wants to call it an inclusion for IR. I think it's very important to involve workers and labour so that they would be a key participant in the fourth industrial. A lot of unions are concerned about robotics, and that may mean a reduction in jobs. And our view is we need a balanced approach where we introduce robotics, but we ensure labour is re-skilled so that there are not large-scale retrenchments. So that is one of the debates in South Africa. And what do you think are the challenges and the opportunities in this fourth industrial revolution then? I think there are many challenges. The main one being workers may be dislocated from workplace activity, and the relationship between workers in both the manufacturing and services sector can see large periods of alienation from the production process. And my view as a researcher is we need engineers, but we also need sociologists. We need designers. We need the creatives to be involved in the designing of the new workplace for the fourth industrial revolution. And hopefully the ITU and other UN organisations can create that opportunity. Otherwise, large chunks of the working class may just be excluded in this new four IR. What about the value of attending events such as ITU Telecom? Why have you come down here? Look, it's phenomenal. I think the UN and the ITU is one of the great institutions. It involves all nation-states, different cultures, different regions, and it's one of the wonderful innovations of the UN system. As you know, the ITU is over 140 years old. It preceded the UN. Over 115, in fact. Yes, yes. And that is truly remarkable. And I think for me it's the cultural interaction learning from different nations, learning from different cultures, learning from different regions. And that is the beauty of the UN system. And this event itself, how have you found it? Phenomenal. I think Durban is a wonderful place. Lovely climate, multicultural. I think the innovations and the companies on exhibiting have been great. And the networking amongst the different organisations have been phenomenal. So it has been quite successful and really a good start for the next few years. Thank you very much indeed. Thank you, Max. Excellent.