 A very good morning to you in St. Lucia and across the entire east in Caribbean and beyond. Welcome to the St. Lucia House of Assembly, today Tuesday, July 26 for another sit-in of the Lower House of Parliament. Today July 26 also marks the first anniversary of the present administration, for it was exactly one year ago, July 26, that St. Lucia went to the polls and elected the St. Lucia Labour Party, led by present Prime Minister, Philip G. Pierre. At this sit-in today, we have a number of papers to be laid by the Honourable Prime Minister and Minister of Finance, Economic Development and the Youth Economy. Papers to be laid by the PM and Minister of Finance, Statutory Instrument No. 85 of 2022 or the Legal Profession, Statutory Instrument No. 86 of 2022, also the Legal Profession and Statutory Instrument No. 87, also the Legal Profession. Then we have Statutory Instrument No. 91 of 2022 and that is Public Finance, the Public Finance Management Act, a resolution of Parliament to borrow for capital or current expenditure operating expenses of the National Development Project's initiatives and the COVID-19 mitigation measures. Also to be laid, papers to be laid is Statutory Instrument No. 92 of 2022, Public Finance Management Act, a resolution of Parliament to borrow for capital and current expenditure operating expenses in the health sector related to COVID-19, the virus pandemic, Statutory Instrument No. 93 of 2022, the Public Finance Management Act, a resolution of Parliament to borrow for capital and current expenditure implementation of the unleashing of the Blue Economy of the Caribbean Project. Statutory Instrument No. 94 of 2022, the Public Finance Management Act, a resolution of Parliament to borrow for capital or current expenditure for the Organization of Eastern Caribbean States data for decision-making projects. Statutory Instrument No. 95 of 2022, the Public Finance Management Act, a resolution of Parliament to write off debt owed to the government by the Fonds-Saint-Jacques Credit Cooperative Society, limited for the MOCA Housing Development Project. Also to be laid by the Minister for Tourism, Investment, Creative Industries and Culture and Information, Statutory Instrument No. 88 of 2022, which is a Tourism, Stimulus and Investment Order. Statutory Instrument No. 89 of 2022, another Tourism Incentive Order, Statutory Instrument No. 90, Tourism, Investment, Make Limited Order. To be laid by the Honorable Minister for Commerce, Manufacturing, Business Development, Corporatives and Consumer Affairs, Statutory Instrument No. 83A of 2022, which is a Price Control Amendment Order No. 11. To be laid by the Honorable Senior Minister and Minister for Infrastructure, Ports, Transport, Physical Development and Urban Renewal, Statutory Instrument No. 84 of 2022, which is the Motor Vehicles and Road Traffic Designation of Inspector's Amendment Order. Now we move to the bills to be laid here by the Honorable Prime Minister and Minister of Finance, Economic Development and the Youth Economy for Second Reading, the Income Tax Bill, also for Second Reading, the Public Debt Management Bill. First Readings, Recording of Court Proceedings and also for First Reading, the Eastern Caribbean Securities Regulatory Commission Agreement. Also for Second Reading will be the Firemen's Amendment, like I said for Second Reading, the Firemen's Amendment, Second Reading, the Youth Economy Agency and finally the Special Prosecutors Bill, and that is for, like I said, a Second Reading. Most of the parliamentarians are here and uh very shortly we will be joined by the Speaker to commence proceedings this day Tuesday the 26th as the St. Lucia House of Assembly once again meets to discuss the people's business. Already here are the Prime Minister, the Honorable Minister for Housing, the Honorable Richard Frederick, just entered the parliament, is the Leader of Government Business and the Minister for Tourism, who is the Honorable Ernest Hilaire. We've just gotten word that Speaker Francis will be with us momentarily to start the proceedings off for today and in my opening I spoke of the first anniversary one year ago, July 26th, that the St. Lucia's went to the polls and elected the Philip J. Peer administration, the administration of the St. Lucia Labor Party to see after the business just over the weekend the party and the government held a ceremony honoring the services 25 years of Prime Minister's Kenny D. Antony who was the former Prime Minister under the Labor Administration and Philip J. Peer the present Prime Minister and they were being honored for service to this country both unbroken from 1997 making it 25 years that these gentlemen have been in this parliament, one serving the people of Castries East and the other the people of Viewfort South and they have given sterling representation and continue to do so. We have not seen the member for Viewfort South as yet but I'm sure that he will be here very soon. The St. Lucia Labor Party and this present administration have outlined a number of projects that they intend to embark upon over the next four years as laid out in their manifesto, one which is ongoing at the moment which is housing which they are using as a driver for economic growth. They say that this sector will continue to play a pivotal role in growing the economy and in job creation and to this end the focus will be on housing like I said before and public and private infrastructure development that this administration of Philip J. Peer together with private sector participation will redevelop the city of Castries where we are at the moment into modern medium high-rise multi-level residential buildings. This will be accomplished by using a phased approach consideration will also be given to a mix of housing types to maximize the development cost per unit single detached unit townhouses duplexes low-rise apartment buildings for freehold and a subsidized housing for rent on tenants income levels. The present administration also is looking into incentivizing a program for housing repairs that has been ongoing throughout the their first year like I said that today is the anniversary of that first year so that housing repair program is ongoing to maintain and improve the existing housing stock house owners will therefore be encouraged to carry out repairs to maintain the quality of their homes and also will and be encouraged or the private sector will be encouraged to invest in augmenting the country's housing stock especially for low middle income families. The present administration also promises to revisit the Castries to Bruce Lee highway redevelopment project as had been proposed under the previous labor government they also plan to revisit plans for the north south highway with a view to secure and finance and the timing of its commencement. Additionally this present administration will continue community road infrastructural management and improvements in housing settlements they also planned the expansion of the digital economy but that will have to wait as the speaker is now entering the chamber followed by the clock of follow-ups. Let us pray. Almighty God my Umalun kings reign and princes decree justice and from Umalun come if all council wisdom and understanding we dine on will be servants here gathered together in dynamic do most assembly be seized to send down thy heavenly wisdom from above to direct and guide us in all our consultations. And grant that we having died here always before our eyes and laying aside all private interests prejudices and partial affections the result of all our councils may be to the glory of thy blessed name the maintenance of true religion and justice the safety honor and happiness of the queen the public will peace and tranquility of St. Lucia and the uniting and knitting together of the hearts of all persons and estates within the same in true christian love and charity one towards another through jesus christ our lord amen the grace of our lord jesus christ and the love of god and the fellowship of the holy ghost be with us all evermore amen. Good morning honorable members i have received correspondence regarding the absence of the member for grusley who is out of state attending the 10th sports ministries meeting and the 2020 commonwealth games in Birmingham i have also received correspondence from the member from castries central requesting permission to table a motion referring the leader of the opposition and member from microsoft to the privileges committee regarding statements made at the last sitting of the house of assembly in keeping the rules and procedures of such matters before the motion can be placed before the house i am to review the statement made and to decide whether it meets the threshold for such a referral i shall be doing so promptly and also advise the member for castries central before the next sitting and to also advise that the senate has appointed senator dominic fede and senator deal lee to be members of the joint select committee formed for review of the banking amendment bill it is now for this honorable house to complete the process by making its own nominations and choice of chairperson statements from ministers minister for health thank you very thank you very much mr speaker mr speaker this statement is on the monkey park situation on saturday july 23 2022 the director general of the world health organization declared the current multi-country monkeypox outbreak to be a public health emergency of international concern this announcement comes one month after the initial meeting of the emergency committee under the international health regulations met and concluded that the current monkeypox event did not meet the criteria to be considered a public health emergency of international concern since that initial decision approximately 13 000 new cases have been reported with an additional 28 countries reporting cases mr speaker a public health emergency of international concern is defined as an extraordinary event which is determined to constitute a public health risk to other states through the international spread of disease and to potentially require coordinated international response by making such a declaration the world health organization provides an opportunity to mobilize international response to this outbreak and to implement non-binding but practically and politically significant measures that can address travel trade quarantine screening treatment and so on the world health organization can also set global standards of practice recommendations have been set for countries depending on their various levels of transmission for countries such as st lusia who have not reported a case the guidance is to strengthen surveillance to detect cases sensitize the public and healthcare workers to identify and report cases strengthen clinical management and effect infection prevention and control measures the world health organization does not advise any restrictions on travel and trade at the moment st lusia through its preparation and management of the COVID-19 pandemic has continued to reassess and strengthen its public health response to infectious diseases and works with its regional and international partners to continue preparation for the introduction of monkeypox in st lusia if that becomes necessary i thank you very much mr bill's paper sorry papers to be laid mr prime minister thank you mr speaker mr speaker i beg to lay the following papers standing in my name starting instrument number 85 of 2022 legal profession eligibility shatar alison thomas marshal order starting instrument number 86 of 2022 legal profession eligibility use chance with marshal order starting instrument number 87 of 2022 legal profession eligibility kenya makia lushana makiba benjamin order at instrument number 91 of 2022 public finance management act resolution of parliament to borrow for the capital of current expenditure to finance the implementation of national development projects initiatives and COVID-19 mitigation measures at number 92 of 2022 public finance management act the original parliament to borrow for capital and current expenditure operating expenses in the health sector related to the COVID-19 virus pandemic challenging number 93 of 2022 public finance management act the original parliament to borrow for capital and current expenditure implementation of the on-leash of the blue economy of the capital of the caribbean project challenging number 94 of 2022 public finance management act resolution of parliament to borrow for capital or current expenditure organization of the eastern caribbean states data for decision making project television number 95 of 2022 public finance management act resolution of parliament to write of debt owned to the government by fund sejak credit corporate society limited for the mocha housing development project minister for tourism investment creative industries culture and information Mr speaker i beg to lay the following people standing in my name start three instrument number 88 of 2022 tourism stimulus and investment come run in order start three instrument number 89 of 2022 tourism incentives come run in order start instrument number 90 of 2022 tourism incentive market limited order minister for commerce manufacturing business development cooperative and consumer affairs thank you mr speaker i beg to lay the following paper appearing in my name statutory instrument number 83 a of 2022 price control amendment number 11 order senior minister and minister for infrastructure ports transport physical development and urban renewal mr speaker i beg to lay the following paper standing in my name statutory instrument number 84 of 2022 motor vehicles and road traffic designation of inspectors amendment order bills prime minister and minister for finance it is my understanding you will not proceed with the income tax and public management public debt management bills please proceed with the recording of court proceedings act mr speaker i beg to present for first reading a bill short entitled recording of court proceedings recording of court proceedings with the speaker i beg to move the suspension of standing order number 48 to allow the bill to go through its remaining stages at this sitting honor members the question is that standing order 48 to be suspended in order to allow the prime minister to proceed in the remaining stages of the bill at this sitting and i'll put the question as many as of that opinion say i i as many as the country opinion say no i think the eyes have it the eyes have it leave is granted please proceed thank you very much mr speaker mr speaker i'm sure you'd allow me to sound the people of st lusia and by extension the people of castries east for the historic action that they took on july 26 2021 when they elected all of us in this honorable house but what's most important is when they elected 15 of us to form the government of st lusia mr speaker it is my it's my hope that we will continue to serve the people of st lusia to put the people of st lusia first to continue to battle the economic problems that we've inherited and the other problems that have that have come on to us not of our own doing but because the circumstances may be on our control let me just speak up with the support of the people and the support of members of this honorable house i'm sure we will prevail i want to be the speaker to go on record to sincerely thank my colleagues in the cabinet and outside the cabinet who have worked together as a team and i'm sure the people of st lusia have understood the situation and they will work with us for the betterment mr speaker i also want to tell you that because of one of the promises that we made is that we've given pensioners a one-off payment of five hundred dollars at the end of july mr speaker and as i speak that money is in the bank account and also mr speaker after discussions with the n i c the n i c has agreed to give all pensioners a four and a half percent increase starting from july this year mr speaker it is said that justice delayed is justice denied this middle mr speaker the recording of court proceedings act mr speaker is to provide for the recording and transcribing of court proceedings and for related matters mr speaker doing my budget statements earlier this year i made the point that it was in the system there was there was a backlog of cases in the system and that backlog was causing justice to be denied and was causing frustration and many times because of frustration the the result was not what we expected to be and in that budget statement mr speaker i allocated in excess of two million dollars for a swift justice project where we are going with the support of the justice ministry we are going to employ new criminal criminal judges and our criminal court so that we can expedite some of the cases particularly the murder cases that are languishing in the bodily facility mr speaker so mr speaker this court proceedings bill is another step in the swift justice in the swift justice project mr speaker and mr speaker in the where the appropriate recording equipment is in these courts the bill once enacted can greatly improve the time within which the official transcript transcript can be made available and thereby enable a party to proceed with their matter in the court of appeal the bill also provides a judicial officer or party to have quick access to the official transcript of the record of the court proceedings the process of preparing an official transcript of the record of the court proceedings is required for several purposes including for review by judges in the course of running a decision in a case for review by an attorney for a party during the course of the trial or for an appeal by a party within the court to be scheduled and heard before the court of appeal at present the official transcripts are prepared by the computer either transcripts cuts units or external service providers where persons will listen to the recordings which are made of the court proceedings and then manually type the manuscript the transcripts this process to prepare an official transcript can take a considerable length of time since very laborious tasks and there can be several requests for transcripts which can delay how soon a transcript can prepare an official transcript which has been requested the delays in the probationary transcript of the record of court proceedings is oftentimes a cause of significant delay for some matters which are to be heard by the court of appeal in addition the cost to the litigants to prepare a transcript can be quite high as the payment is made for each type page in the official transcript the cost per page is also higher if a party makes a request for an expedited transcript which is usually prepared overnight or even a certain number of days this cost may sometimes be an issue which could deny a litigant access to justice since it may not be able to afford to pay for the official transcript and proceed to have the matter paid by the court of appeal Mr. Speaker and that is significant because we believe that each man and woman is equal in the eyes of the law no one is above the law Mr. Speaker and some people of lower incomes may not be able to pay for these transcripts so that makes it easier and more accessible daily Mr. Speaker so Mr. Speaker even in terms of justice we are putting people first on the news this new bill a party will only be asked to pay a fee for the audio or video recording file where it's available and not a fee per page of a typed document the bill will allow the chief registrar or senior manager to cause the proceedings of court to be recorded using audio or video recording equipment or by any other means which they may direct the bill also provides for the calling of court proceedings which are made to be reproduced for the use of the court or parties to the court proceedings theization provides for the person who prepares the recording or transcript to certify as an accurate transcript of the court proceedings the electronic audio or video recording or type transcript of a court proceeding made in accordance with the bill once certified is an official transcript of the court proceedings and its validity must not be questioned on the ground of the qualification of the person preparing the transcript or making the recording therefore the actual electronic recording or video recording can serve as an official transcript and this can be made available in a very short timeframe after a matter has been heard in the court the bill for the provides for a part of provides a form for a party to court proceedings or another person to request a copy of the official transcript and for the chief registrar very short achieve my issue to without undue delay finish a copy of the of an official transcript when it has been requested and once the applicable fees have been paid when the official chancellor has received the party would then be able to provide the electronic recording as part of the record of appeal together if any sections which he may choose to be used to type text for ease of reference in the event of any conflicting views on what transpired at the hearing in the court below the full recording of the hearing will be available to the court of appeal for their review in order to arrive at a conclusion section 10 of the bill provides for the exemption from payment of fees to obtain an official transcript for judicial officers the attorney general the director public prosecution or other law officer who may obtain a transcript of court proceedings for the performance of his or duties as a law officer the other facilitator party to criminal proceedings who may on the basis be permitted by an order of the court to pay a reduced fee or be exempt from the payment of fees for the probation of an official transcript as stipulated by order of the court finally the bill provides for the chief justice and two other judges of the supreme court to make rules and for the chief justice to issue practice directions for the purpose of giving effect to it it must emphasize that this new bill what it provides for several enhancements to improve the access to justice does not in any way prevent the court process the current process from being used for the probation of transcripts where the court feels that is necessary to proceed in the manner or the equipment required is not available it is clear Mr. Speaker that the new bill once enacted can only serve to enhance access to justice for our citizens speed up a justice process available to the four litigants to pay reduced costs for obtain an official transcript of the court proceedings by passing this bill solution will join many of the other OECS member states and territories who have an acted acts which mirror the same and Mr. Speaker there are this is in essence Mr. Speaker what the bill is about Mr. Speaker and I think that it's a necessary piece of legislation it will modernize our system it will make justice more accessible and finally it will cause people who may not have the means to have easy access to their records or the court proceedings if there is need for the speaker i urge members to support this bill thank you Mr. Speaker and remember the question is that the recording of court proceedings bill be read a second time remember for view for north thank you Mr. Speaker Mr. Speaker I I wish to make a very brief contribution to this bill recording of court proceedings the recording of court proceedings bill but before I speak Mr. Speaker I urge you to give me just a few moments to to thank the people of view for north for returning me to the parliament at this moment one year ago Mr. Speaker we're rallying the voters and I wish to thank all those who assisted me those who made sacrifices our team my family and everyone who continues to support this government and continues to support my efforts thank you very much now we may see you Mr. Speaker the recording of court proceedings bill why is this important and I want to spend a few minutes Mr. Speaker to explain because as the member for castries if Eastern Prime Minister indicated this government has made justice a very important part of its mandate justice for all and you can connect this to crime whether it be violent crime or petty crime and justice is important and while court transcripts may seem very remote to the ordinary citizen I want to spend a moment to explain Mr. Speaker to honorable members and to my constituents by extension why this is important first of all Mr. Speaker why do we need a transcript and what is a transcript so Mr. Speaker when you go to court what you say in the court as Prime Minister said the evidence and so on must be written somewhere it must be recorded so this is the transcript is the is the document or the evidence of that recording a transcript Mr. Speaker the official court transcript is important because the decision of a judge or other judicial officer may be appealed and tomorrow you have to appeal then this becomes very very important Mr. Speaker it's important for people to know that the record of proceedings it means the pleadings the declaration of readiness of readiness to proceed minutes of the hearings summary of evidence transcripts if prepared and file proof of service evidence received in the course of proceedings exhibits marked but not received into evidence notices petitions briefs findings orders et cetera et cetera et cetera so it's very important because people say Mr. Speaker why is it important sometimes Mr. Speaker Prime Minister indicated this attorneys and judges may want to review what has taken place so other difficulty a lot of us Mr. Speaker in the past I'm sure you know there are people who have been guilty of crimes and sentenced to prison and they have been able to recall the transcripts of court proceedings and prove the innocence years later I'm Mr. Speaker, even the great, the right honorable Sir Dennis Byron, the President of the Caribbean Court of Justice at the time, 2013, spoke to the whole issue of modernizing the court. And in a lecture delivered by Sir Dennis Byron, the Honorable Sir Dennis Byron, the role of the Caribbean Court of Justice and importance to Caribbean judicial and economic development, Sir Dennis Byron says this and I quote, the CCJ now operates in what can modestly be called a high-tech environment. This is essential to the court's efficient spanning of the watery divide between Belize in the north and Suriname in the south. Trials and case management conferences can now be conducted by video link. Video and audio recordings are the norm now. The official transcript is in the form of an audio digital record. Transcripts are available on the court's website. The same night of proceedings and pleadings and submissions are available to journalists with court approval. The technological and other innovations embraced by the CCJ have not come about by accident. They reflect the result of thoughtful planning and careful implementation. The Caribbean Court of Justice Strategic Plan 2013-2017 sets out the mission and vision together with the values by which the court and its staff will be guided in the carrying out of its mission. So even the great Sir Dennis Byron, Mr. Speaker, when he spoke about the role of the Caribbean Court of Justice, spoke to the whole issue of technology, the use of technology in the Caribbean Court of Justice. So this is very important. Saiyapata Pututmune. And lastly, Mr. Speaker, there is progress because the Eastern Caribbean Supreme Court, Mr. Speaker, started training in digital audio recording of court proceedings. And they've started training from April and we are looking forward to our judges and other officials of the court receiving training. So Mr. Speaker, while this bill may look very innocent, but it's very, very important for justice. It's very important for the rule of law. Even Mr. Speaker, there is a provision in the bill for a translator. So people who do not speak English, whether you are Spanish-speaking person or French, and even our Creole-speaking people can get justice because this bill provides for an interpreter. So I support this, Mr. Speaker, and it will continue to help us to advance the course, the course of justice in this country. I thank you, Mr. Speaker. Member for Sousa Sultivas. Good morning, Mr. Speaker. Thank you. I wish to make a very brief contribution to this bill, but I also want to take the opportunity, Mr. Speaker, as we have come on the anniversary of the last general election to thank the people of Sousa Sultivas for returning me to this honourable parliament to represent them, Mr. Speaker. Despite the odds, Mr. Speaker, the margin of victory in my constituency was quite respectable. Mr. Speaker, I have learned more so in recent past that the recording of history is very important, and if I did not rise to make a contribution, the documents of this House will be sealed to indicate that what is said before me is the case. But the honourable Prime Minister failed to mention that this is just a continuation of what has started, and without me clarifying that, it may actually be interpreted that this is something that has just been enacted, Mr. Speaker. So it is very important for the records. It is important for the records, Mr. Speaker. But, you know, it is about continuity. It is about continuity, and we need to continue. But, Mr. Speaker, I do support this bill because, Mr. Speaker, as the member of Yefodinov indicated, there have been several cases where transcripts have been revisited to bring people's guilty verdict to overturn people's guilty verdict. Mr. Speaker, I want to take this opportunity to also make a site observation. I expect a response from my good friend, of course. But I just need to recognise that maybe I am the only one wearing a mask around the table, Mr. Speaker. And whether, you know, there is anything that, you know, the Minister of Health would like to bring to our attention, Mr. Speaker. You didn't see me anyway. You didn't see me. You didn't see me anyway, Mr. Speaker. So, Mr. Speaker, I just want to, I think it's our personal responsibility, Mr. Speaker, to wear a mask if we want to. But to have it and acted in... Members, please allow the member for Suzyl. Remember, just for the record, you did say you were the only one wearing a mask. That is not quite correct. Around the table. That's not quite correct. If you look around the table, Mr. Speaker. Well, that was a quick one. Mr. Speaker. Anyway, Mr. Speaker, I want to thank you for giving me the time to indicate, Mr. Speaker, that this bill is actually a continuation of what I started. Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. Prime Minister and Minister of Finance. Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. Take out my mask. Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. I think that the member for Euphold North has said succinctly what this bill is about, and I move that the bill be presented of the same time. And I remember the question is that the recording of court proceedings bill be read a second time. And I'll put the question as many as of that opinion. See, I I as many as of the country opinion. Say no. I think the eyes have it. The eyes have it. An act to provide for the recording and transcribing of court proceedings and for related matters. Clause two. Interpretation. Clause two stands part of the bill. Clause three. Recording of court proceedings. Clause three stands part of the bill. Clause four. Words of interpreter. Clause four stands part of the bill. Clause five. Certification of transcript. Clause five stands part of the bill. Clause six. Transcript of evidence of a witness. Clause six stands part of the bill. Clause seven. Validity of official transcript. Clause seven stands part of the bill. Clause eight. Transcript as proof of court proceedings. Clause eight stands part of the bill. Clause nine. Requests for transcript. Clause nine stands part of the bill. Clause 10. Exemption from fees. Clause 10 stands part of the bill. Clause 11. Rules. Clause 11 stands part of the bill. Clause 12. Practice directions. Clause 12 stands part of the bill. Clause 13. Repeal. Clause 13 stands part of the bill. Schedule. Form one, section five. Form two, section nine one. Schedule stands part of the bill. Clause one. Short title. Clause one stands part of the bill. On the members the question is that the committee rises and the bill be reported. And now put the question as many as of that opinion say aye. As many as of a country opinion say no. I think the ayes have it. The ayes have it. On the members I beg to report that the recording of court proceedings bill went through committee stage without amendments. Minister of Finance and Prime Minister. Minister Speaker, I move that the report of the committee be adopted and the bill be passed, be read a third time and passed. On the members the question is that the report of the committee be adopted and that the recording of court proceedings bill be read a third time and passed. And now put the question as many as of that opinion say aye. As many as of the country opinion say no. I think the ayes have it. The ayes have it. Be it enacted by the Queen's most excellent Majesty, by and with the advice and consent of the House of Assembly and the Senate of St Lucia and by the authority of the same as follows. This act may be cited as the recording of Court Proceedings Act 2022. Minister of Finance. Mr Speaker, I beg to present for first reading of the bill shortly entitled Eastern Caribbean Securities Regulatory Commission Agreements. Eastern Caribbean Securities Regulatory Commission Agreement. Mr Speaker, I beg to move suspension and stand order 48-2 to allow the bill to go through its remaining stages at this sitting. Honour, remember the question is that standing order 48-2 be suspended in order to allow the Honourable Prime Minister to proceed with the remaining stages of the bill at this sitting. And now put the question as many as of that opinion say aye. Aye. As many as of a country opinion say no. I think the ayes have it. The ayes have it. Leave is granted. Please proceed. Thank you, Mr Speaker. Mr Speaker, the Eastern Caribbean Securities Regulatory Commission Agreement was established in October 19, 2021. Honour, as a body corporate responsible for the regulation of the securities market exchanges for persons engaged in security business and the public issue of securities in the Eastern Caribbean currency union. The agreement establishes the ECSRC which is the Eastern Caribbean Securities Regulatory Commission as the sole regulator for the Eastern Caribbean Securities Market, the CECSM, Mr Speaker. So, Mr Speaker, what this bill is doing is to make the ECSRC an act of parliament to further strengthen the protections afforded by the Commission. So, Mr, the agreement, Mr Speaker, and it may also please the member, for sure, when I tell him that the agreement was signed by the then Prime Minister of St. Lucia on the 14th day of February 20, just February 2020. Just a year and a few months before that date. Mr Speaker, so the member shows that we're continuing. He signed the agreement and we make it the fourth of law. All right, members of the St. Lucia? Good. All right, records. It was established in 2001 and several amendments have been made to the agreement Mr Speaker. These are amendments made in the year 2000 to strengthen it, Mr Speaker. In the year 2020, Mr Speaker, the members of the ECCU signed another agreement which is the agreement that we are trying to put in the first of law, Mr Speaker. Mr Speaker, so basically, as I said, this agreement controls the business, manages the business of securities, regulates how the business is organized, Mr Speaker, to ensure that it meets international standards, Mr Speaker. And, Mr Speaker, it also, the agreement provides immunity of the ECCB from any court action. The ECCB is immune from any court action, Mr Speaker. And the agreement is enacted into domestic law in each ECCU member territory. The issue of the central bank's immunity from prosecution was therefore put beyond question. The Eastern Cayenne Central Bank cannot be brought through the judicial process because of that agreement, Mr Speaker. So, Mr Speaker, it strengthens the protections offered by the commissioners, by the commission, the commissioners, the officers and the employees. So, Mr Speaker, so it basically is building an agreement into the first of law. This agreement has been sanctioned by all the members of the ECCU. So, all we have to do in St. Lucia is to pass it into legislation, Mr Speaker. Nothing, there is no, there is no depth in the details because, as I said, it was signed by the now member from Microsoft together with the governments of Antigua, Dominica, Monchak, St. Kitt's Nivis and St. Vincent, all members of the ECCU. I thank you, Mr Speaker. Honour, members, the question is that the Eastern Caribbean Securities Regulatory Commission Bill be read a second time. And I'll put the question as many as of that opinion. Say aye. Aye. As many as of the country opinion. Say no. I think the ayes have it. The ayes have it. Wait, did I close the debate? No. I ought not to have done that. I didn't put any question. So, we just read a second time. Any member wishes to make a contribution? You wish to add anything? No, Mr Speaker. I think it's the bill is pretty, it's pretty straight out. So, I now put the question as many as of the opinion. Say aye. Aye. As many as of a country opinion. Say no. I think the ayes have it. The ayes have it. An act to provide for the implementation of the agreement establishing the Eastern Caribbean Securities Regulatory Commission and for related matters. Close two. Interpretation. Close two stands part of the bill. Close three. Agreement to have force of law. Close three stands part of the bill. Close four. Penalty for use or disclosure of confidential information. Close four stands part of the bill. Aye. Close five. Amendment of schedule. Close five stands part of the bill. Schedule. Sections two, three and five. Schedule stands part of the bill. Aye. Close one. Short title and commencement. Close one stands part of the bill. Remember the question is that the committee rises and the bill reported. I now put the question as many as of that opinion. Say aye. Aye. As many as of a country opinion. Say no. I think the ayes have it. The ayes have it. One of the members, I beg to report that the Eastern Caribbean Securities Regulatory Commission Agreement Bill went through committee stage without amendments. Honourable Prime Minister. Mr Speaker, I move that the report of the committee be adopted and the bill be passed a third time. That we write a full time and passed. Honourable members, the question is that the report of the committee be adopted and that the Eastern Caribbean Securities Regulatory Commission Agreement Bill be read a third time and passed. I now put the question as many as of that opinion. Say aye. Aye. As many as of a country opinion. Say no. I think the ayes have it. Be it enacted by the Queen's most excellent majesty, by and with the advice and consent of the House Assembly and the Senate of St Lucia, and by the authority of the same as follows. This act may be cited as the Eastern Caribbean Securities Regulatory Commission Agreement Act 2022. Mr Leader of Government Business, it is my understanding that the bill down to be debated at this point in time is a section or two is being rearranged and you wish to defer that bill to later. Proceeded the firearms bill. Minister of Finance. Mr Speaker, I beg to advance for second reading a bill shortly entitled Firearms Amendment. Mr Speaker, although today is a very joyous and happy day for us, particularly those on this side of the House, I am not very pleased to have to come to Parliament today to amend the Firearms Act, Mr Speaker. Mr Speaker, the amendment to the Fire's acts in its own by its own by this singular measure will not is not the only means by which the government intends to fight crime, Mr Speaker. It's a series of measures, Mr Speaker, but we believe that because of the increase of in the use of firearms, we ought to strengthen the laws against the illegal use of firearms, Mr Speaker. But the amendment to legislation is not the means to an end, Mr Speaker. This is because there are several, several factors that have to be corrected in this country. We do not manufacture firearms in St. Lucia. At least we don't manufacture serious firearms. The question is, Mr Speaker, how do these firearms enter the country? How do these firearms enter the country, Mr Speaker? And Mr Speaker, it's very sad when you have the information, when there's information, Mr Speaker, sometimes on how these firearms enter the country, Mr Speaker. There is something endemic in our system that would allow people to facilitate for the sake of money, the illegal importation of firearms, that cause human, that cause death, that cause destruction just for a few dollars, Mr Speaker. And, Mr Speaker, no matter what it costs me, during my tenure, that the people of Cassius East and my extension, people of St. Lucia and my extension, my cabinet colleagues, I will use every effort to stem the corruption in the system that allows these firearms to land into this country. Mr Speaker, I'm not, I'm not making any accusations. I'm not pointing fingers at any one of any group of people, Mr Speaker. But it can't be by coincidence. It can't be by coincidence, Mr Speaker, that so many firearms enter this country, I just said, from the United States. It can't be coincidence, Mr Speaker. It can't be coincidence. And I know that the members of the customs department are trying their best, but I urge them to be as vigilant because, Mr Speaker, when a firearm enters the country illegally and is used by a bandit, you never know who the bullet will hit. You never know, Mr Speaker, your family, your children, your spouse could be somewhere and they get hit by a street bullet, Mr Speaker. So even if we may believe that it may not reach us, we must understand that you never know when you'll be the unfortunate one and you will get struck down by a bullet. So, Mr Speaker, I want to urge the customs department, the members of the police force to do, use their best efforts. And I know the system is not perfect. I'm the first one to tell you that there is, that we need a lot of things. We need many things in the police. We need more equipment. We need more vehicles. We need everything. We need more money, Mr Speaker. But I want the members of the law enforcement agencies to understand that what you're doing is a labor of love for the protection of themselves first, their families, and by extension, the people of St. Lucia. So moving forward, Mr Speaker, I hope that with the strength of this legislation, Mr Speaker, the police can feel that they have the required backing and the system can support them. So this scourge of illegal firearms, this scourge of shootings that happen in this country, we hope it can come to an end. But as I said, this is just one of the measures, Mr Speaker, that we are taking to try to curb this menace, Mr Speaker. It's not pleasant for us to have to stand here and to have to pass that legislation where people can be sent to prison for life, for some offenses. It's not pleasant, Mr Speaker. But I want to warn, particularly the young people of St. Lucia, who may be tempted to carry guns for somebody, to go on a business, to carry a thing there, do not allow people to use you for their own vanity. When you are caught in the fire, the bossman is not the one who will pay for it. Do not allow anybody to give you anything to carry for them. Don't allow business because you are the one who's going to be in trouble. You are the one who's going to languish in jail because of the increased penalties, Mr Speaker. There is a better way. Carrying a firearm from point A to point B may give you $200. Mr Speaker, if you escape, the $200 will finish. But if you caught because of that legislation, you may end up spending, may end up spending the rest of your life in jail, Mr Speaker. It's serious legislation, as they say on the streets. That's not a joke. That's not a joke, Mr Speaker. Everybody, everyone should listen and read on the penalties that can happen because of this legislation. That is not a joke. This is serious business, this is serious business, Mr Speaker. It's serious. It's very serious business, Mr Speaker. So, Mr Speaker, we are mending the firearms act, Mr Speaker. And the clause five of the bill, Mr Speaker, we are creating a firearm licensing board, the board. Presenting, Mr Speaker, firearm licenses are given solely by the Commissioner Police. This new act, as is the case in most other countries of the region, Mr Speaker, there is a firearm license can only be given by a board which comprises the commission of police, Mr Speaker. The poem is Secretary of the Ministry of Responsibility for National Security and free post is dominated by the minister approved by the cabinet, who are of high integrity, unable to exercise good judgment in fulfilling the functions under this act, Mr Speaker. And, Mr Speaker, I propose that the chairman of the board be the commissioner of police, Mr Speaker. So, we are the commissioner of police to chair the board, Mr Speaker. Mr Speaker, this means that the firearm license, a firearm license, there will be a broader section. More people are going to be involved in the issue of firearm licenses. I would not be the sole discretion of the commissioner of police, Mr Speaker. As I said, it's not new. Not new to St. Lucia. It happens in most other countries of the region where a firearm license is given by a board, Mr Speaker. So, the application process will be the same, but the issuance of the license will be done after a board meets to issue the license. Not new happens everywhere in the region. Clause 6 of the bill, Mr Speaker. Section 15, the firearm dealer license is amended to increase the penalty for summary conviction to a maximum fine of $50,000 or to imprisonment for a maximum term of 10 years or to both and to increase the penalty for conviction or indictment to imprisonment for a maximum term of 25 years for failing to keep a proper register of firearms and ammunition. So, Mr Speaker, the only people who can legally sell firearms are people who have a license to sell it. So, if you know they have any business when selling gun, that's not a business where they get involved in. The only people who can legally sell firearms, Mr Speaker, if you have a firearm dealer license, nobody else can sell firearms. They must have a dealer's license, Mr Speaker. And if you don't have a dealer's license, you are caught conviction or indictment to imprisonment for a maximum of 25 years. 25 years, Mr Speaker. So, the business of selling firearms must only be done, must only be done by somebody with a license, a license to sell it. Clause 7 of the bill, Mr Speaker. Section 16 of the Act, Converting a Fire. Now, Mr Speaker, what happens is sometimes, supposing you have a regular firearm, there are several individuals who have the skill of converting, converting a foot here into an automatic, you understand? So, whereas it would be, you could get rapid fire from that, from that regular gun by creating, by making some adjustments with Mr Speaker. Mr Speaker, I know there are some people who have that skill of converting the, of converting the firearm, Mr Speaker. I want to warn them that the penalty for that has been increased for conviction or indictment to imprisonment for a maximum term of 25 years, for shortening the barrel of a shotgun or converting anything into a firearm. 25 years imprisonment if you, if you try to create an automatic, from a regular gun. So, you're not supposed to sell it, you're not supposed to convert it with Mr Speaker. The business of firearms are only for established dealers with Mr Speaker. Mr Speaker, Clause 8 of the bill, Section 21 of the Act, firearms, imports, or export, Mr Speaker, is amended for summary conviction to a maximum fine of $50,000 or to imprisonment for a maximum of 10 years, or to both, and to increase the penalty for conviction or indictment to imprisonment for a maximum of 25 years for importing or exporting a firearm or ammunition without a license. So, if you import a firearm without a license, or you import ammunition without a license, Mr Speaker, and it doesn't mean that if it's only one firearm, you won't suffer the same consequences, you know. You could get the same thing for one firearm. So, the best thing to do is to stay away from it, Mr Speaker. 25 years imprisonment for importing or exporting a firearm or ammunition without a license. 25 years imprisonment, Mr Speaker. Mr Speaker, Clause 9 of the bill, a new Section 21A prohibitive weapons and ammunition, Mr Speaker. That's a new clause that is inserted in the Act to provide for the prohibition on the use, acquisition, possession, importation, manufacture, or supply of a semi-automatic and automatic weapon and ammunition, and for penalty on semi-conviction to a maximum fine of $50,000, or to imprisonment for a maximum of 10 years, or to both, and for conviction or indictment, imprisonment for maximum term of life, for an offense committed under the section. So, if you commit an offense with an automatic gun, if you try, you think you are a soldier, you won't have an M16 or AK, and you commit a crime, Mr Speaker, that ammunition is only to fight war. It's not for you. If you found a thing, if you found it, if you found it, Mr Speaker, you have, you can get a term of 10 years, and if you commit an offense with it, Mr Speaker, you can get a maximum term of life, a maximum term of life, Mr Speaker. If you commit an offense with a scope with an automatic weapon, an AK or M16 or semi, this, the kind of ammunition that we may have on the streets, Mr Speaker. Committing an offense with it, you can get imprisoned for life. So, Mr Speaker, close 10 of the bills, 22 of the acts, prohibition against possession without a license, is amended, and to increase the penalty for semi-conviction to a maximum fine of $50,000, or to imprisonment for a maximum term of 10 years, or to both, and to increase the penalty for conviction on indictment to imprisonment for a maximum term of 25 years for the possession or control of a prohibited weapon without a license. And, Mr Speaker, even licensed gun holders must remember to pay their licenses, because if you have a license, if you have a gun and you haven't paid the license, the gun become unlicensed. So, you have to make sure those if the licensed gun owners must pay the license, Mr Speaker. And people who believe that they can carry guns on them without a license, even though they don't intend to commit a crime, even though it is for their own protection, if you do not have a license, do not get a gun. If you don't have a license, do not get a gun, because if you found with a gun and you sent to court, it's possible, Mr Speaker, that you may be convicted and you may be charged a maximum fine of $50,000 for a maximum term of 10 years or to both. And if you commit or to both, Mr Speaker. So, again, this is serious and I urge all solutions to listen, to read, because as they always tell you, ignorance of the law is no excuse. So, you cannot say you did not know. So, the way is to be on the street and narrow as far as firearms are concerned, Mr Speaker. Mr Speaker, because 11th of the bill, the act is amended in section 24, prohibition against carrying a firearm ammunition in a public place, Mr Speaker. For carrying a firearm ammunition in a public place without a license or while drunk or under the influence of drugs, Mr Speaker, some reconfiction to a maximum fine of $50,000 or to imprisonment for a maximum term of 10 years or both. Mr Speaker, again, there's a custom when people have illegal firearms and on the block they're pulling their piece out and they're showing it. By the very act of pulling out your illegal piece, Mr Speaker, you can be sentenced to 10 years imprisonment or fine $50,000. So, first of all, you should not have an illegal piece. And if you have an illegal piece and you show it in public, you can be, you can, a maximum fine of $50,000. And if you're drunk, who said? Say, Speaker, these are serious, serious fines. These are serious, serious, Mr Speaker. Warning the young people of St. Lucia, do not allow your life to go because of bad friends or because you want to prove a point, Mr Speaker. Clause 12 of the bill provides for an amendment in Section 26 of the Act possession of firearms with intent to injure. To increase the penalty for a summary conviction to a maximum fine of $50,000 or to imprisonment for a maximum term of 10 years or to both. And to increase the penalty for conviction or indictment to imprisonment for a maximum term of life for the possession of a firearm with an intention to threaten or endanger life or property. The possession of a firearm with an intention to threaten or endanger life or property, Mr Speaker, if you are found guilty, Mr Speaker, you may, you may be sent to prison for life. So if you go at a man home and you pull it and you try to hold him up before gone or in a store and you're caught and you're found guilty, you can probably go to prison for life. Clause 13 of the section 27 of the Act use of a firearm or imitation firearm with intention to commit offense is amended to increase the penalty for summary conviction to a maximum fine of $50,000 or to imprisonment for a maximum term of 10 years or to both. And increase the penalty for conviction or indictment to imprisonment for a maximum term of life or in addition to any other penalty a person is allowed under the Act for use of a firearm or imitation firearm with an intention to commit an offense. Again, Mr Speaker, serious, serious punishments if you use, if you hold up somebody or if you even what they call you, you flam, you flam, you flam somebody. You understand? You understand, Mr Bradley? Yeah. Yeah, if you flam a man, you pull up piece and you flam him. That's, that is the final seven charges this year. If you, you know, again, tell the Congress on the streets, basically, don't have a firearm and you have one, don't flam it. Because if you flam it, once you flam it and you have a license, you are in trouble, Mr Speaker. Stay away from firearms, even though an imitation firearm, so if you have an armor's gun and you, you, you pretend that it's a serious gun, you're in trouble. I mean, Mr Speaker, I hope that for this Christmas season, we do not allow any imitation guns to be putted in this country. The Speaker clause 14 of the bill, section 28 of the act, restriction on sale of firearm or ammunition is substituted to provide for the offense of manufacturing, selling, transferring, lending, repairing or modifying the firearm, ammunition and for penalty for summary conviction to a maximum fine of $50,000 or to imprisonment for maximum 10 years or to both and for conviction and indictment imprisonment for maximum 25 years, Mr Speaker. So, Mr Speaker, if you rent a firearm, you know, for less, it's going to block until they rent in a piece. If you rent a piece, Mr Speaker, you can go to jail for 25 years and the person that rented for you will also go to jail. So, don't rent, don't try to rent because if you rent it, even though it's not yours, you cannot say to the police that belong to that man there. You have it, so you're the one who is going to pay the penalty, Mr Speaker. Stay away from firearms. Stay away from firearms, Mr Speaker. Clause 15 of the bill, Mr Speaker, section 29 of the act, restriction on the sale of ammunition is substituted to provide for the offense of removing or origin of markings of a firearm, ammunition and for penalty for summary conviction to a maximum fine of $50,000 or to imprisonment for maximum 10 years or to both and for a conviction indictment imprisonment for maximum 25 years. Again, Mr Speaker, if somebody offers you a firearm and say to you the police can't chase it because they've removed the serial number. Sometimes on the block, Mr Speaker, you can sandpaper the serial number and they tell you the police cannot find it, Mr Speaker. That's wrong. If they catch you, if they catch you with a firearm, where you try to erase the serial number, Mr Speaker, or you try to alter it, Mr Speaker, you can get imprisonment for 25 years. Clause 16 of the bill, Mr Speaker, the new section is a new section is there, 29A, restriction or exposure for sale or transfer and possession of a firearm and 29BDs and new sections prohibition on disposing or destroying a firearm for ammunition are inserted in the act to provide for the offense of exposing, possessing, disposing or destroying a firearm or ammunition for penalty, for a settlement conviction to a maximum fine of $50,000 or to imprisonment for maximum two of 10 years or to both and a penalty for conviction on indictment to imprisonment for maximum two of 25 years. So disposing of a firearm so once they can prove that you're the one who dispose of it, Mr Speaker, once they can prove it in the court, you can go to jail for 25 years. Clause 17 of the bill, a new section 41A prohibition against illicit trafficking in firearms or ammunition is inserted in the act to provide for penalty for conviction and indictment to a maximum fine of $150,000 or to imprisonment for maximum two of 25 years, both for trafficking firearms or ammunition. So the law has been strengthened. So if you traffic in firearms, that means if you're trafficking in firearms or ammunition, Mr Speaker, you can be fined $150,000 or imprisonment for maximum two of 25 years. Clause 18 of the bill, Mr Speaker, section 29 of the act, power to stop and search is amended to increase the penalty to a maximum fine of $15,000 or to imprisonment for maximum two years or to both for failing to submit to a vehicle stop and search by a police officer. So if the police stop you and you said that you are not stopping, Mr Speaker, whether you have a motorcycle, a bicycle or a car, you and you refuse to stop, you can be fined $15,000 if you fail to submit to a vehicle stop and search by a police officer. So if you drive on the road, Mr Speaker, and the police stop you, dutifully stop your car, put your hand on the steering wheel and let the police do what they have to do. When they stop me, I stop. Sometimes when I drive myself and I get in a roadblock and the police stop me, I dutifully stop. And I say, officer, here's my license. Go ahead, go ahead, go ahead, go ahead. But I stop, Mr Speaker. You see, Mr Speaker, nobody is beyond, no one is beyond the law. And I've said to every member of my family, you are not beyond the law. You can't afford to believe that you can be beyond the law, Mr Speaker. You have to follow the instructions of the police officer, Mr Speaker. Clause 19 of the bill provides for an amendment to Section 40 of the Act, search warrant to increase the penalty to a maximum fine of $50,000 or to imprison for maximum of 10 years or to both for obstructing or interfering for police officer conducting a search of a warrant. Again, Mr Speaker, some of us, when the police are involving searches, we either get in between them or we get them checked or we try to obstruct or we sit down on the evidence. Again, Mr Speaker, if you do that, this loss, this, you can be fined $50,000 or maximum to imprison for 10 years, Mr Speaker, for obstructing a police officer in the execution of his duties. Clause 20 of the bill, Mr Speaker, provides for an amendment to Section 47 of the Act, compulsory imprisonment to increase the penalty to imprisonment for maximum of 25 years for a person other than a juvenile who uses a firearm in the commission of an offense including kidnapping and robbery, obstructing a police officer while exercising his or her duty, threatening or causing injury to the governor general, a member of parliament, a judge or public officer. If you use a firearm, Mr Speaker, it is compulsory imprisonment to increase the penalty to imprisonment for maximum of 25 years for a person other than a juvenile who uses a firearm in the commission of an offense including kidnapping and robbery. So again, if you use, if you hold a people in a supermarket at their home, Mr Speaker, compulsory imprisonment for maximum of 25 years. Clause 21 of the bill, Mr Speaker, Section 50 of the Act, inquired by the appropriate authority, is amended, increase the penalty to a maximum of $25,000 or imprisonment for maximum two or three years or to both. In cases where inquiry into the purchase of ammunition is made and the person subject to the inquiry still is to provide any information requested by the appropriate authority or fails to appear before the authority if so required. So Mr Speaker, if you buy ammunition and you ask where an inquiry is made by the appropriate official as to where you bought it and you fail to comply, Mr Speaker, and you found guilty, the penalty is increased by $25,000 or to imprisonment, Mr Speaker. Clause 22 of the bill, Mr Speaker, a new section, Section 50A is added. Control delivery of firearms and ammunition is inserted in the Act. So all the ministers have entered an agreement to make a reason for the control delivery of firearms or ammunition to identify a person who commits an offense under the Act, Mr Speaker. That's self-explanatory. Clause 23 of the bill, Mr Speaker, Section 50 of the Act, general penalty provision is amended to provide for penalty for some reconviction to a maximum fine of $50,000 or to imprisonment for maximum two or three years or to both and to increase the penalty for conviction or indictment to imprisonment for maximum of 25 years for offenses committed under the Act on which a penalty is not specified. So if the penalties are aligned there, if you find, if you commit a crime that the penalties are not, the offenses are not there, it's called a general penalty provision, Mr Speaker. So your maximum of 25 years if an offense is committed under the Act for which a penalty is not specified. 24 of the bill, Mr Speaker, Section 22 and 3 of the Act regulation is amended to provide the minister to make regulations for the impolition and sale and possession of air rifles, guns and epistols. The minister of national security can make regulations for the importation of air rifles and other sporting guns, etc., Mr Speaker. So, Mr Speaker, this is very serious legislation. These are very serious offenses, Mr Speaker. And, Mr Speaker, I really want again to urge the young men and women and sometimes the women, some young women, carry the firearms in their poses hoping that the police will not search them, Mr Speaker. Do not carry if your boyfriend loves you, you will let you carry a firearm for him because the jail, there is no segregation when it comes to jail for firearms is an equal opportunity offense. If you are, there is no gender bias when it comes to possession of firearms, Mr Speaker. So, again, Mr Speaker, I am urging the young people in this country do not allow any man to give your gun to carry and say that the police won't search you because you are a woman. Don't, don't, Mr Speaker. Mr Speaker, I am saying these things because I can feel, Mr Speaker, what will happen to a young man or young woman at 20, 21 years of age to go to prison for 25 years just for the simple, what looks like simple, like just carrying a firearm from point A to point B. Everybody, and I hope that the government information service makes these penalties known, both in English and in particular, because, as I said before, that is not a joke. I'm not saying it will cause it will stop crime. What I'm saying is these penalties, Mr Speaker, are penalties that we will not like any young person to go through the possibility of life imprisonment, Mr Speaker, just for what may at the time seem like just carrying something for somebody else. So, Mr Speaker, as I said, today is a joyous day for me and my colleagues, but I'm not very pleased to have to come to this Honourable House, to have to ask this Honourable House to pass this legislation, Mr Speaker, but it's not an end, Mr Speaker, but it's a means to assist us in the gun violence that's happening in San Lucia today, and this is the first step, the first stage, the number of steps, Mr Speaker. So, we want to tell the young people again, the people who have the guns, and the people who encourage for profits, who encourage for money, who allow these firearms to go into the wrong hands just for money, for vanity, Mr Speaker, who allow, because they get involved in corruption in their jobs, just for vanity, just to be able to live beyond their means. They allow these firearms to come into this country. I want to urge them, for the sake of themselves and for their children for the country, to stop it, Mr Speaker. Stop it. Stop it, Mr Speaker. Mr Speaker, I thank you. Honourable Members, the question is that the firearms amendment will be read a second time. The Member for Sousa, all of us. Thank you, Mr Speaker. Mr Speaker, a few parliaments back, I did indicate in this House that I would support any stronger measures taken by the government to decrease the spiraling crime in our country. And so today I welcome the new bill. I also want to thank the members of the government for giving this bill the opportunity to be circulated widely, so people could have have an opportunity to read it. And one of the things I noticed, Mr Speaker, in discussion publicly was quite a few people who were commenting on the fee on the charge and they felt that it was still very low, Mr Speaker. I am also of the view that we should have also increased it more significantly, Mr Speaker. So it is unreachable for people who believe they have deep pockets to be able to give people a chance, Mr Speaker. So, Mr Speaker, I am quite happy that the bill is coming. But, Mr Speaker, I also believe that, and we have seen it, a lot of the crimes being committed by firearms, they go unpunished. The perpetrators are never caught. And I think there should have been a lot of emphasis in the bill as it relates to apprehending, apprehending and taking various initiatives to go certain places and do various raids and surprise visits to try to confiscate some of these offenders, Mr Speaker. And so, Mr Speaker, that is why it was a bit surprising that in terms of apprehending the canine unit, Mr Speaker, and I heard a conversation, a bit of conversation, as it relates to the cost to the country. But we must not underestimate the value of the canine unit and the ability for these dogs to sniff out firearms and to identify where these things are hidden, Mr Speaker. And, Mr Speaker, I think it should be made very clear to the taxpayers of the country that the payment of the use of the canine unit was not from the taxpayers, Mr Speaker, but from these funds obtained from the Proceeds of Crime Act, Mr Speaker, most of the payments that were being made, Mr Speaker. And in addition to funding the canine unit, these funds were also used to purchase bulletproof vests for the police, shields, even vehicles, Mr Speaker. And so I think the government should revisit, you know, bring in and maybe negotiate if the attitude is there. But that canine unit, Mr Speaker. Mr Speaker, I also want to ensure that the public, and we do not see the police as scapegoats in what's happening with the escalating crime, Mr Speaker. We all know that the police could still do with quite a bit of manpower. We know in many cases the police are exhausted from, you know, the kind of work they have to do, Mr Speaker. And so we should not in any way try to undermine the work that our police are doing. And I want to congratulate the entire Royals and Lucia Police Force for the work they have done to date and the work they will continue to do, Mr Speaker. But, Mr Speaker, while I am supporting this bill, there are few concerns and there are a few matters I would like clarification on. And I'm sure the AG, through the Prime Minister, will be able to give some sort of clarification. Mr Speaker, the latest amendment of the FIAM bill was received last night, Mr Speaker. And there's something that I noticed, Mr Speaker, that is the issue of tasers. Tasers were, it was removed and it's no longer defined as a FIAM. And that kind of concerns me, Mr Speaker, because I'm hoping we get some clarification as to what does that mean? Does it mean now that tasers will be in the hands of people who apply? Does it mean that the police will now be given the latitude to use tasers, Mr Speaker? And if so, Mr Speaker, it concerns me as it relates to the training. Because I did I did get some information with regards to tasers. I am no master on or technical expert on tasers, Mr Speaker. But one of the things that I noticed was that in the use of a taser come skin burns, injuries from falls and permanent brain injury. And in some cases, even death, Mr Speaker. Yeah, but there's a reason why it was taken out. Was it taken out because now you can bring it in? That is the that I'm seeking clarification on, Mr. I am seeking clarification. I'm hoping I would get it. That's okay. Mr Speaker, as I said, I'm seeking clarification with regards to why the tasers was removed, Mr Speaker. And hopefully we will get some clarification. The Honorable Prime Minister mentioned that the application for FIAM will be the same. Now, I'm not sure whether he meant the form, the prescribed form, or whether it means that if you apply for FIAM, you apply through the commissioner's office. The special branch does the investigation, whatever they do, and then they make a recommendation. And that recommendation is now sent to a board. And if the recommendation says reject, what can the board override that? Is there some of the questions we need to be asked, Mr Speaker? So I'm very concerned now, Mr Speaker, that we've taken away the issuing of a FIAM license from the commissioner police to now to a board. I heard the Prime Minister indicate that there seems to be a practice in the Caribbean. And while it may be a practice in the Caribbean, there are some examples and some cases that we need to be wary of. And I hope this morning I was referring to a member of the House as it relates to what happened in Jamaica, where in particular the Minister of National Security was also indicted for what they felt was his influence in trying to get the board to approve certain FIAM applications. I note, Mr Speaker, that the makeup of the board, and he says it, but won an administration two days as an established FIAM license in the board. The members of the board are the commissioner of police or his or her nominee, the permanent secretary in the ministry responsible for national security, and three persons nominated by the minister and approved by the cabinet who have high integrity and are able to exercise good judgment in fulfilling the functions under this act. Mr Speaker, I think that's a dangerous diversion, Mr Speaker, to get members of the government of cabinet to get involved in the issuance of FIAM licenses, Mr Speaker. We recognize, Mr Speaker, the fact that the minister is going to appoint three out of a total of five automatically gives the minister's appointment overall authority. No, I'm very interested in the process going forward, Mr Speaker. We have to be very, very, very careful, Mr Speaker. That's the perception, public perception, Mr Speaker. That's what we have to be very careful of, public perception as it relates to how FIAMs are issued. So, Mr Speaker. Members, please allow the member for a surzel to make his contribution. Mr Speaker, why are you talking so much? Member for Castries Central, you will have an opportunity to speak on this bill. So, Mr Speaker. Just a minute, Mr Speaker. Member for Castries Central, please allow the member for a surzel to continue without interruption. As I said, Mr Speaker, I continue to seek application with regard to that. If we take in this thing very seriously, Mr Speaker, we have to look at all facets of it, Mr Speaker. Will people who have had FIAM applications denied in the past, will they now have an opportunity to come to make a new application to the new board, Mr Speaker? These are questions that we have to ask, Mr Speaker. I think so strongly, Mr Speaker, and I heard the Prime Minister indicate that he recommends that the Chairman be the Commissioner of Police. I hope that when we get to that stage, that that amendment will be made because it is not indicated in the Act. And as I was indicating, Mr Speaker, I think so strongly about a board being placed there. I think that maybe, you know, people may want to take issue with what I'm saying, but I believe at that stage, Mr Speaker, people whose FIAMs are approved should be published publicly. Have you looked at Section 2C of Bill 12? No, Mr Speaker, it does not speak to the Commissioner. Are you referring to the 2C? The Minister shall appoint the Chairperson. He doesn't say that in the Act, you know. It's in the discussion. Okay, but that doesn't matter. It has to be in the Act. No, but I'm saying it, okay, yeah, okay, right. So it will be amended in committee stage. That's fine, right? And that's what I'm just saying. Members, members, please hold on. If a bill gives a member, please, if a bill gives a member the power to appoint a particular person as Chair, and in the presentation of the bill to this honorable House, he makes it known who the Chairman shall be. Member for Miku South and Member for Cassis East. I am speaking, and when I'm speaking, no other member shall speak. So if a member who is presenting a bill, which bill gives him the authority to make a recommendation, and he states in his presentation that that is his recommendation, how does that not, are you aware of what it means to present a bill? Everything you say there, that becomes the lawyer. Mr. Speaker, I thank you for sharing your wisdom on this, Mr. Speaker, but in my layman's view, I think it should actually be recorded in the Act. That's my thinking. I guess the lawyers can clarify and indicate to me that maybe that's not the case. But that's how I, so Mr. Speaker, as I was saying, while I welcome the increased penalty, Mr. Speaker, there must be a feeling, Mr. Speaker, by the citizenry, that this process is transparent, this process is fair, Mr. Speaker, and that license issue of license for Mr. Speaker will be one that is provided to people who are truly deserving of it, Mr. Speaker. And I'm hoping also, Mr. Speaker, as I said earlier, that some further clarification will be given to us with regard to the whole teaser issue, Mr. Speaker. There's just one more thing I would like to mention before closing, Mr. Speaker, and that is the board also, based on what I'm reading here, shall grant and renewal license or permit, Mr. Speaker. One of the problems we have in public office and people see it as the amount of bureaucracy, Mr. Speaker. And I'm kind of concerned with regards to the renewal, the renewal having to go to a board. And in terms of the efficiency of that process, Mr. Speaker, because sometimes, Mr. Speaker, an individual, and as rightfully said by the prime minister, even if you are a legal firearm holder, the day your firearm license expires, you're no longer, you're no longer a legal firearm holder and you can be charged. And sometimes, Mr. Speaker, similarly to when your vehicle insurance expires, Mr. Speaker, you rush and try to get it paid so that you remain within the law, Mr. Speaker, I am concerned that somebody identifying their firearm license expires today and rushes to renew its firearm license. It has to go to SSU for them to inspect the firearm and, you know, Mr. Speaker, that sort of efficiency. What is the process with regards to that? Can we not have the renewal continue to be done in the way that is done currently, Mr. Speaker, which is a quicker process? I note the power of the board also, the board also has the power to revoke a license, Mr. Speaker. There's nothing to indicate what would you know, qualify a license to be revoked, except of the fact that I guess we spoke to somebody being drunk, but the person was being penalized in terms of the charge, not necessary that the license would be revoked. I thought a lot more discussion and information with regards to the revocation of a license, you know, whether, you know, somebody could just be targeted for the license to be revoked, Mr. Speaker. So these are some of the questions I'm hoping that would be clarified a little later, Mr. Speaker. But as I said, I do support the increased penalties because I think it's a pointing in the right direction. But I also believe a lot more emphasis should be given to apprehension and not just necessarily, you know, increase in penalties. Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. The member for Miku South, are you deferring to Miku North? Member for Miku North. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, today marks a very important day in my political career. Today marks one year since I became the parliamentary representative for Miku North. Having said that, Mr. Speaker, please permit me to stir a little before I commence my contribution to this bill. I want to start by wishing the patrons of descent and parish, Mr. Speaker, and that's my home parish, happy parish feast, as they prepare to celebrate tonight. And I want to extend my condolences to the Chalry family who recently buried their loved one, Miss Lucille Chalry, better known as Miss La Belta. Today, Mr. Speaker marks a year since the people of Miku North created history at the polls. And for the first time, they brought the seat home to the St. Lucille Liberal Party. I want to sincerely thank the people of Praline, Mamiku, Monripu, Lahu, Grass Street, Passiers, Lapwet, St. Mary, Mon Warden, magnitude S-Carp, Violet, Mayet, and the Miku village, Mr. Speaker, for placing their confidence in me and giving me the opportunity to represent them in the House of Parliament. I also want to thank those individuals, Mr. Speaker, in the diaspora who work tirelessly to ensure that I am where I am today. Mr. Speaker, permit me to mention some of these individuals quickly who despite not residing in the constituents currently, they continue to play an integral role in the development of Miku North. Jubilee, Daniel, Tobu, Bia, Frances, Adria, Mary, Celia, Gaston, Dennis, Furness, and all the others. And I will not be able to mention all of them, Mr. Speaker, and I ask that they forgive me. Those who I may not have remembered this morning ask that they forgive me. Thank you for buying into the mantra Miku Seisanu and contributing towards the development of a Miku that you can proudly call yours. I have to also mention, Mr. Speaker, a few stalwarts in the community who work like donkeys during the campaign to ensure that we achieve this feat. My campaign manager, Ms. Phyllis, Yu Yu, Cynthia, Lorely, Mayu, Labas, Silas, Mr. Rosary, Peterson, Ms. Befelid, Felicia, Tasha, Risha, Mr. Cagney, Jakoda, Mr. M, Bakiad, Mr. Henry, Bevelian Wilbuffa, Nelva and Minelva, Ogyan Ulan, Red Rat, Ghana, Yanet, Chanel, my constituency branch, my office staff, my friends, and in a very special way, Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank my prayer support group, the fishermen and the farmers, my family and my mentor. To say that the past year has been a walk in the park or it has been all glitter and glimmer, Mr. Speaker, would certainly be an untruth. The last year has been a learning curve for me. And it has definitely come about with some of its challenges. It has not been the easiest year in which to govern. And as a country, Mr. Speaker, we are still trying to come to terms with the pandemic. We have seen the dark clouds of inflation covering our skies due to the Russia-Ukrainian War. In my constituency, Mr. Speaker, I continue to grapple with the issues of sagasm and the high rates of youth unemployment. And as I say, sagasm, Mr. Speaker, I want to, I know that the fishermen are very concerned, but I can say today in this vulnerable house that as we speak, works are being done to take care of the sagasm situation in Mecood. And hopefully as soon as we are done with Mecood, we are going to move to Prowley to continue the works. Hopefully then we have to. I'm also charged with responsibility, Mr. Speaker, of managing expectations of individuals, especially those expectations which are not realistic and sometimes very individualistic. But as one who believes in the world, I can tell you that God knew exactly what he was doing when he appointed the men and women of this government to handle the affairs of this country, Mr. Speaker. I want to tell my colleagues today, let us not become weary and doing good. For the proper time, we will reap a harvest if we do not give up. Let us continue to put St. Lucia and the affairs of St. Lucia first. Now, Mr. Speaker, I want to learn my voice in support of the amendments to the firearms bill. I will be the first to admit, Mr. Speaker, that we have a serious problem, a serious problem on our hands. And as a matter of fact, sometimes I even say that we are in a state of crisis. There is no running away from the harsh reality which we are faced with in this country, although this alarming and disconcerting incidents and phenomenon of crime is not unique to only St. Lucia. We see similar situations in Jamaica, Trinidad, you turn on your televisions and your radios, Mr. Speaker, and you cannot help but be saddened by the news of another gun related homicide. Mr. Speaker, dealing with the situation requires an urgent and desperate need for innovative, creative, pragmatic thinking and strategies and the amendments to this bill is part of the strategy, Mr. Speaker. Allow me to quote the words of Dr. Vellon John from his piece, A Certain Perception. We, the movers and shakers in this society and on whatever level and in whatever sphere, have to be creative and proactive in the posture we assume in the containment of crime. And it is a posture that must be holistic, for it is only in so doing that we can bring about a celebration revolution in thought, in perception, in attitude and conduct of the members of society. There are some very important words in this quote, Mr. Speaker. We, the movers and the shakers. And in this room I see quite a few movers and shakers, Mr. Speaker. We as politicians have been charged with the responsibility of sparing, of sparing, of the moving and shaking. Then I look at the next few words in this quote. We have to be creative. We have to be proactive in the posture that we assume in the containment of crime. This is what we are doing, Mr. Speaker. We have acknowledged that there is a problem with crime and gun-related offences. We have taken the bold decision to tackle the situation head on as part of our crime fighting strategy. And it is for this reason that we are in this honorable house today debating the proposed amendments. And I want to commend the Prime Minister, Mr. Speaker, for being able to stand here boldly. Others make power in the face of adversity, but he was able to stand boldly and said that it does not matter what it costs him or his government. But if it is for the interests and for the betterment of the people of St. Lucia, that he is going to take the decision. And I want to commend him for being able to stand here and being able to take that decision to bring these amendments before the house today. Now note well, Mr. Speaker, I said as part of the strategy. We understand all too well that legislation alone will not suffice or it will not solve the problem before us. We understand that crime fighting and dealing with gun-related offences is a lot more complex and complex than what actually meets the eye. That is why, Mr. Speaker, that is why that as part of our manifesto promise, we agreed to tackle crime in a holistic manner. We have started this process. We started tackling some of the deficiencies as it relates to the physical infrastructure component of dealing with crime. Mr. Speaker, you would recall not too long ago, a fleet of vehicles were handed over to the police to help both study operations. The budget this year has an allocation for the reinstatement of a custody suite. There is also an allocation for the regional headquarters in Grozili and we returned the training volt for the police. Work is underway, Mr. Speaker, to improve the conditions at the bodily correctional facility. A few weeks ago, we witnessed promotions happening within the ranks and fires of the Royal Central Police Force and now the amendments to the fire and bill. Mr. Speaker, crime should never be politicized. It should never be. But there is no shine away from the efforts of this government, Mr. Speaker. We cannot shine away from the efforts of this government to put measures in place to bring peace and comfort to the Central People. The measures which I mentioned are essential to dealing with what we are faced with currently, Mr. Speaker. But we also understand that we have a responsibility to ensure that our children and our grandchildren do not inherit what we have to deal with today. The only way to do so is to work on the parenting and education aspects and to provide an enabling environment so that the generations to come can thrive. We need to build a resilient solution which is not so heavily affected by external factors. And I know some people may say that this is wishful thinking. But, Mr. Speaker, I believe in our people. I believe in the ability of our people as solutions. So, I know that we can achieve whatever it is that we put our minds to. This is why, Mr. Speaker, the programs like Back on Track, among others, they provide us with some kind of social intervention. And these programs continue to be a priority for this government. We are proposed to broaden the primary school education to address critical thinking, conflict resolution, and emotional intelligence. And all of this, Mr. Speaker, is in an effort to utilize a multi-dimensional approach to dealing with gun violence and crime in general. Mr. Speaker, there is usually an inherent or acquired need to score political points when dealing with issues related to crime or to please blame on administrations before us. But this government refuses to adopt this posture. As we have all noticed, and some of us here, Mr. Speaker, we have even experienced the incidents of gun-related offenses, and we know that it is alarming. And what has exacerbated the alarming situation is the involvement of our youth in this scenario of vicious, mindless, and sometimes deadly activity. Mr. Speaker, more often than not, we have incidents of gun violence, our young people are involved, our young people are dying, and we cannot allow this to continue. Mr. Speaker, I am a young man. And when I think about the way in which so many of our young men meet their demise, Mr. Speaker, I am a young man. Yes, and I want the record to see that I am a young man, despite what the member for then renof me think. And Mr. Speaker, when I think about the way in which so many of our young men meet their demise, it really hurts to see that so many young men and women, as we have seen recently, they fall victim to gun violence and crime. There are issues that we can point to which contribute to crime, Mr. Speaker, unemployment, dysfunctional homes, genetic endowments, poverty. But none of these, Mr. Speaker, can justify a person taking a firearm and killing another. None of these. Mr. Speaker, the proposed stiffer penalties in this legislation is intended to discourage persons from obtaining illegal firearms. And in a similar fashion, Mr. Speaker, like the member for Schoesel, I believe that it could have been a little stiffer. But we too have to also be considerate, Mr. Speaker, when we're passing laws. We have seen a situation where individuals have been caught with illegal firearms. And in less than a week, Mr. Speaker, they have made bail and they're back on the streets doing even more things. We have heard individuals saying that when they buy their illegal gun, they put their 10 and their $15,000 aside right away in the event that they are caught, arrested, convicted. And Mr. Speaker, we cannot allow this to continue. And that is what this piece of legislation or the amendments to this piece of legislation is trying to discourage. Where persons believe right now, Mr. Speaker, $15,000 have been made to look like $20. Like somebody can literally just put $15,000 on the side, hold their firearm and wait in the event police hold them. They know where their bill money is coming from or where the fine money is coming from. So I support this bill, Mr. Speaker. And I support the stricter penalties. I support the stricter fines and confinement. However, as I said, Mr. Speaker, we need to look at this in a holistic manner. We need to be able to provide the police with the support. And I'm happy that the prime minister in his presentation, the member for castries, spoke about ensuring that we implement the sweep justice system to deal with the backlog of cases. Because I know that that is one of the problems that impedes our progress, Mr. Speaker, as it relates to dealing with matters, fire matters. We have situations, fire matters. I, too, Mr. Speaker, from my police days, I have matters which are still in the court for about seven or eight years. And it is sad that persons have to wait seven or eight years for their fit. And I think that if we have a sweep justice system where these matters can be disposed of urgently and quickly, we will also see a decline in the amount of gun related offenses. Or if we don't see a decline in the amount of gun related offenses, we are certainly going to see an increase in the amount of convictions. So, Mr. Speaker, when it hits home, or when it hits home, especially in my constituency, I have to speak and I have to support the bill. A few weeks ago, Mr. Speaker, I was in my constituency and I had to prematurely end my constituency day to attend and visit a family who had a son who got shot in Parley. And before we used to see it was in castries, then we say this in view of what Mr. Speaker, crime affects everyone of us in this room. And we've seen little pieces or we've seen the effects of crime trickled down to every constituency in this country. And we have to also understand that gun violence affects every aspect of our economy. It affects tourism, which we are heavily dependent on and we cannot allow this to continue. So, I support the intention of this bill. I know that this bill, the intention is good. I'm hoping to see that we can actually make this thing work, Mr. Speaker, but it would need the efforts of every one of us. So, in closing, Mr. Speaker, I would like to once again lend my voice in support of this bill and I'd like to encourage all agencies in society to play their part in dealing with this multifarious phenomenon as it affects all of us. I want to reiterate my support. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The member for castries east. Thank you. Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. Yes, of course, Mr. Speaker, I want to be extremely brief on this, on my support on this piece of legislation. But of course, to meet me to express my, of course, commendation and support for those who are celebrating today, this anniversary of the Labour Party, including myself. But of course, Mr. Speaker, I need to, I need to let sandwich understand and to let us understand that we all celebrate differently. And my own experience in participating in this in the past election was a very unique and personal one. And up to now, Mr. Speaker, I can say that I haven't jumped in jubilation as one would have expected me to. But of course, my circumstances and my situation is different. And it's for this reason I joined to support this piece of legislation and to add my voice in supporting in a very special way. Mr. Speaker, a number of persons in St. Lucia have experienced the loss of loved ones through some violent means, especially when it's uncertain and gun violence is partly responsible to a number of persons losing the loved ones. I personally know what it is to speak to a healthy son on a Friday and to hear of his passing on Saturday. And of course, grieving continues throughout. And sometimes I ask myself to persons understand why I would not jump and punch my fist in the air to celebrate because grieving continues throughout your lifetime. And therefore I want to this morning remember all persons who have lost a loved one through violent means. And in a particular way, remember some young lady, 23 years old, Sasha Polius of Beller, a constituent of mine. Her body has just been found a few I think a few days ago. And of course, I heard the story of her legs being amputated or watered view. And I do sympathize with Lilly and the rest of the family who in a serious way are mourning just like some other St. Lucia. But of course, as the Prime Minister presented this important piece of legislation and most persons would be hearing the conditions for deterrent. I need to remind the young men and persons listening to us this morning. We are not doing this thing because of any our disposition to young men in St. Lucia. We care about the young men in St. Lucia. In fact, it is this very government that expunge the book records of some of our young men who are currently in prison and to make the records clean with us who were caught with some small bits of marijuana. It is the same government who have actually invested through institutional strengthening for the back and track ministry to provide opportunities and support for some of our inmates while in prison. In fact, it is the same government that is using some amount of our allocation towards providing microenterprise for some of our inmates who are about to come out so that they do not get back inside of there. And of course, we want to recognize the support program, of course, the details of which will be explained in the youth economy directed about our same young people. So I just thought, Mr. Speaker, that I remind us that the money in which we are pursuing the issue of gun violence and the piece of legislation that has been passed to be a deterrent, it is not intended to create a bad relationship with our young men, but it is to tell them that we do not accept gun violence in our society. We do not accept taking lives for no reason. We do not accept violence perpetrated to our young girls, to our mothers, to families. We want a peaceful society. This is the essence of this piece of legislation. And of course, this will not be the only intervention made, like I said. We have expunged the records of young men in prison who were in there for some bits of marijuana. We understand social justice. We understand the principle of equity. We understand what it is to create a society equal for everyone. But also we understand the need for making our society safe so that everybody can enjoy it. And therefore, this is really a deterrent. It is saying that you should not have access to illegal weapons. You should not just pull up a weapon and kill somebody. This is what we're saying to our young men in our society. And of course, as anything else, I'm hopeful. I am optimistic that we will do better in spite of how dark it looks at this time. We, with this government, with our tint of red this morning, and Mr. Speaker, I wish there was some sort of a standing order to allow only red to be present this morning. But of course, in the spirit of the democracy, we have to embrace two bits of yellow. But this morning, I think with all the, well, of course, and some blue as well, but it is really a national acknowledgement of what the people of St. Lucia did on the 26th of July, two years ago. And of course, it's nothing wrong if the members on the other side, this morning, in the spirit of what St. Lucia said, add a bit of red to the yellow shirts, of course, it would make the atmosphere even better. But this morning, everyone in red is saying thank you to our political leader. Thank you to St. Lucia's who gave us the opportunity, not just to bring this piece of legislation, but have ushered in a new atmosphere so our people can be prosperous, our people can be more peaceful. I trust Mr. Speaker that for the rest of the proceedings, you would hear a lot more, a lot more in terms of what we've done. I could tell the people of Cassbury's office that we are poised to make a difference in the lives of people. And that difference is important because while some of our people may have voted, some people may have supported a lot what we've done, change is something sometimes difficult to embrace. And sometimes, people do not understand what change is. We have not just voted for change, but the manifestation of change will be seen and experienced in the lives of St. Lucia's. So thank you, Mr. Speaker. And I support this piece of legislation as a deterrent to young men being participating in gun violence and making life difficult for St. Lucia's. Thank you. Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I rise to express my support for the bill presently before us for debate. Mr. Speaker, before I continue on the specifics of the bill and the context in which the bill has been put before us, Mr. Speaker. I would like you, Mr. Speaker, to allow me leave to say a few words, Mr. Speaker. Of course, as has been said by colleagues before, today is a historic day. And such is the impact of the significance of today, Mr. Speaker. I notice that even you have been making a few mistakes, Mr. Speaker. And it's a little unusual for the Honorable Speaker to get off course. And I trust, Mr. Speaker, it is the memories of July 26, 2021, Mr. Speaker. A day on which, Mr. Speaker, all the barking dogs, all the jackasses, all the mendicants came out to vote, Mr. Speaker. And, Mr. Speaker, I note that the member for Mikosouth has left the chamber, because I was going to ask him, how does it feel when the barking dogs finally bite, Mr. Speaker. But he's not there, Mr. Speaker. So I shall go on, Mr. Speaker, to express sincere thanks to all the constituents of mine who voted for me. And, Mr. Speaker, I will tell you I spent five years in opposition. And I learned what it is to be an elected representative. And it had its challenges. But, Mr. Speaker, I will tell you in the last year has brought new challenges. And I'm really, Mr. Speaker, admiring my colleagues who have served for multiple terms. The member for Euphratesouth, the member for Casteries East, the member for Labry, for Euphratesouth North, and the member for Casteries North, the member for Casteries Central. And the member from Casteries Central probably best knows the constituency that I represent, because we serve next to each other. The demands that you face when you're in government, Mr. Speaker. And we all change. You move from being a member in opposition, if a lot of time on your hands to visit everybody and spend a lot of time with them, to now having ministries to run and having to find that balance, Mr. Speaker. And, of course, everybody simplifies it to you when you're in opposition. They give you patience, Mr. Speaker. But now you're in government. They want you to deliver for them as quickly as you could. So I must say to my constituents, not all are very happy with me now. They don't see me as often as before. I cannot meet all the needs immediately, Mr. Speaker. But there are some people, Mr. Speaker, in thanking the constituents who supported me, that I must mention, Mr. Speaker. If you start in Marigold, you must mention Corrine, Mr. Speaker. And if you go to Bastard-Joseph, you must mention Allen, Mr. Speaker. And, of course, Mr. Speaker, you go to Fuashio, Mr. Speaker. And Goods is not with us anymore, nor Palace. But we still have Robert and Shock here and so many others, Mr. Speaker. The Leos and the Papins, the Sonny's, Mr. Speaker. And, of course, if you go to the Old Cemetery Hospital Road, Mr. Speaker, my place of Mr. Speaker, we have so many persons who worked so hard for this victory from Fat Boy and Charlene and Sean and all the others, Mr. Speaker. And I hope, Mr. Speaker, that when they join me at my AGM on August 14th, and I present to them what I've been working on for the last year, and show them the transformation and to take place in Kastri South, Mr. Speaker, I know they will be impressed if all the hard work I've been putting in for the last year. I'm not sure I want my colleagues to join me and to see all what I will present, Mr. Speaker. But I can tell you, we have quite a lot that we would want to discuss on that day. But I can say, Mr. Speaker, today, Mr. Speaker, that the Bastard-Joseph road has started, Mr. Speaker. The Marigold road has started, Mr. Speaker. The courting Cicera has been repaired right now, Mr. Speaker. The plain feeling Cicera that was stopped in 2016, Mr. Speaker, will commence rehabilitation this week, Mr. Speaker, one year later. And the Bastard-Joseph multipurpose center that was stopped in 2016 will recommence, Mr. Speaker, in the next couple of weeks, all within one year, Mr. Speaker. This government is putting people first, Mr. Speaker. And I am proud, Mr. Speaker, of what we've done. I can speak of so many other, the housing repairs, the school assistants, the food vouchers, so much we've done, Mr. Speaker, in one year, that I certainly feel proud that we are a member of this government, Mr. Speaker, and for us to be delivering to the people of St. Lucia. But, Mr. Speaker, the only sad note for today, Mr. Speaker, is that the opposition still does not learn some of the fundamentals, Mr. Speaker. They don't, Mr. Speaker. They still believe, they did everything right, and the people are grateful for not returning them to office, Mr. Speaker. They believe that, they honestly believe that. And I heard the member from Straszl-Saltibus, Mr. Speaker, my dear friend. I heard it called New Spin. And it's the most disturbing call ever made. And I wonder, Mr. Speaker, what's happening to the ponytail, Mr. Speaker, because, Mr. Speaker, there seemed to be something wrong with even him, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, he is saying the reason why they lost the elections is because the Labour Party is so good at half-truths. And I'm saying to myself, but they are masters of untruths, Mr. Speaker. You know, they don't even know the value of truth and honesty in government. They don't, Mr. Speaker. And he's saying they were always on the back foot, and they should have been on the front foot. And he was speaking in relation to the agreement that was signed last week by the Prime Minister for the Grand Hyatt Hotel. And he was complaining, Mr. Speaker. The same member in 2016 who said, we don't need hotels in Straszl, we just need factory shells. He said it. Member for Straszl, you have a point of interruption and the point of order. The member is misleading, you know. Mr. Speaker, the member knows I did not compare my factory, as he said, my warehouse to the hotel. I did say very clearly, Mr. Speaker, that any project coming to the community of Straszl that will benefit the community I will support. I never made a comparison to my incubator program versus the hotel. So I just want the member to get it right. Mr. Speaker, I recall he said I prefer warehouses. And I was more generous to him, I said factory shells, which suggests factory. He said warehouses to store things. But Mr. Speaker, let's move on, Mr. Speaker. Let's move on. I think, Mr. Speaker, the point I want to make is that maybe the opposition can reflect, Mr. Speaker, and recognize that you cannot disrespect St. Lucian's. You cannot say the things you said to them. You cannot treat them if this did. And it's a lesson for all of us in politics. And this Prime Minister keeps reminding us to stay grounded, to stay grounded, Mr. Speaker, because of the sensitivities of how you serve people, Mr. Speaker. So I want to say to him, Mr. Speaker, the only people who was in Trump are people like Mitch McDonnell and those people that defend the nonsense that Trump does. And he's very quickly falling into the trap of defending the indefensible of Alan Chastney, Mr. Speaker. And he better take note of it, because the next time, he probably won't be so lucky to keep the St. Joseph seat, Mr. Speaker. But, Mr. Speaker, this bill today is significant. And I think the Member for Cassius East highlighted how significant it is when he said he was a little unhappy having to come here today to present such a bill that imposes strict penalties on persons for having firearms. And, Mr. Speaker, if you sit back and you reflect on it, and you recall the Member from Duford South in a presentation to this House a couple of meetings ago, trace all that has been done over the years to try to stem crime in St. Lucia. And he reminded us, from 1997, Mr. Speaker, when he became Prime Minister, we had a situation where prisoners and police officers were using the same washrooms, same toilets. He reminded us of the state of police stations around the island and how many police stations were rehabilitated, were built under his administration. He reminded us of the amount that was done to equip the police. And I know first time I was involving Cricket World Cup, I knew the amount of equipment we gave to the police then. He reminded us. He reminded us, Mr. Speaker, of the laws and the changes, the new criminal code and all those pieces of legislation that were enacted all with the hope of stemming criminality in this country, Mr. Speaker, and promoting citizens' security. Yet we find ourselves where we are today. And it really raises the question, what can we really do, Mr. Speaker? And last time, in preparing to come here this morning, I went to read a document, Mr. Speaker, and it was quite instructive. And some of my colleagues here might remember it. In 1996-97, the then government, United Workers Party government, I don't think the member from Cassius North was yet Minister of Youth. A national task force on indiscipline was established in St. Lucia, chaired by the then PS education, Dr. 1987-88. Yeah, just become. And I beg him not to do it, Mr. Speaker, but that's another story. The PS of education then, I think, was Dr. Fedrick, and he chaired a national task force on indiscipline. And the National Youth Council made a presentation by Mario Michel, Mr. Speaker. On indiscipline in St. Lucia, you remember that member from Cassius North. And then Mario Michel predicted, he said he was looking at the society through an optimistic eye and through a pessimistic eye. And saying all the things we should do for our young people and the society for us not to reach a certain destination. And he said through his pessimistic eye, all the things, if we did not do it, where we would end up. And we've ended up very close to where he said we could end up, Mr. Speaker. Because there were certain fundamentals we felt then, as youth leaders, had to be put in place to make sure that degradation we were seeing in the society would not take place. And we failed our young people, Mr. Speaker. I was a youth leader then, but I can see now that I am part of the leadership of the country that we failed our young people, Mr. Speaker. But what is also ironic, in his critique, there was largely a blame on television. So those are the days when CNN and WGN and wrestling and all those things will be brought into St. Lucia. We call it a television of society. Little did he know there would be something even worse than that called social media, Mr. Speaker. And what it can do in terms of orienting your young people, what it would do to change in the values of our people, not just young. But he made a most telling statement that we were making in disciplines synonymous with young people. And he said that there was more in discipline at the other strata of society and not just the youth in St. Lucia. And if we make crime equal youth, we are doomed to fail. And we did that. We did that. And today we are where we are. But the St. Lucia Labour Party, when in government, has a long, long history of the number of social interventions that we have put in place, Mr. Speaker. And I can never forget how hurt I was when there were suggestions from the other side. Remember from St. Louis, who is not there yet, that if you introduce a step program, that is a backward step. Just think about that. At a time when so many people are unemployed, hustling and struggling to survive, and we thought we can put in place short-term employment programs to give them a little something, a little too largema, to just keep them going. We were condemned for doing this. We were told we were wasting resources. And up to the last government, where the member from St. Louis was, they were saying, this Labour Party has a habit of wasting money, giving away to people, creating mendicants. How can helping people who don't have and are crying out for need, Mr. Speaker? And if you provide the social intervention programs to help them, that's creating mendicants, Mr. Speaker. I don't know if any other parliamentarian will speak. I have had people come to tell me, I tell them, Bossman, I have to commit a crime today. I am nothing. Some of them might be exaggerating when they tell you that. But some of them come to you and they tell you that, Bossman, my children ate for two days yet. What do I go do? And you have to face that reality. You have to face that reality, Mr. Speaker. And I am not condoning anything that any of them would do. But the point I am making, Mr. Speaker, is as we pass this legislation and we need to pass it, we must never forget that we need equally to apply ourselves to the programs that will help alleviate the struggles and the sufferings of some of our marginalized and dispossessed people in the society. We cannot forget that, Mr. Speaker. So we must never encourage them and we must always support the criminal justice system that is effective and efficient. But we must never forget equally. We have a duty to intervene and to provide support for those who do not wish to go down that road but sometimes end up there. You heard the member of M.Castres that speak about it and he gave a very practical and those of us who know the streets will tell you it happens. People will pay young people in particular, vulnerable young people, small sums of money to transport items for them and they have nothing in their pocket and they believe that they can get away with it and they will take the chance and he said it, when you are arrested and you put in, it's not the boss man that's serving time with you and those messages must come across but we must also be there to give them the alternative, Mr. Speaker because I support this legislation wholeheartedly. I detest guns, Mr. Speaker, on the streets and what it can do, Mr. Speaker, I mean, I can take the names in the last five, six years as a parliamentarian of people who've died from gun violence from my constituency. I can tell you even before, I can tell you even closer to home so we must not, Mr. Speaker, object to the necessity of such legislation but I want to always appeal that we must equally be committed to providing the social intervention, Mr. Speaker, for those who may be in the vulnerable positions that we can deter them as well, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the member from Schroeseltz or Ultimus raised the issue of the board versus the singular commission of police and I ask you, Mr. Speaker, to just reflect on it, which would you rather approve a firearm license is so individual of five people, Mr. Speaker, as so individual, I mean, the claim is that some of the five might be influence but can the one not be influence? I mean, think about it, one person has the discretion whether to approve or not, he can be influence, he can be persuaded otherwise or to support it. Would you take your chances if one or with five making the right decision? Maybe one of the five might be influence but they still have four when the one, out of the one is influence what do you have as a check and balance? How could you ever prefer one person making a decision as against five qualified persons to make the decision? Explain that to me. But the same individuals will support a minister appointing boards and appointing other persons to other statutory agencies, Mr. Speaker and the inconsistency really exposes its nakedness, Mr. Speaker. So I don't see the logic. I don't, I would quicker accept you probably saying of the three persons to be appointed one should have a legal background, one should have a law enforcement background. If you had said so, I would say yes, you are strengthening what is there. But to say you rather one person make the decision and five persons, I cannot really see the logic in it, Mr. Speaker. And then the point is made about the tasers. The truth is, the tasers are already classified under other legislation. It is because some sees it when they get it and it's provided for and the other piece of legislation but I take it is a genuine attempt to get clarification and I think the leader, the prime minister will address that when he speaks. But tasers themselves are becoming of concern to us because I was surprised to learn when the Attorney General briefed us as to the prevalence of tasers you know in the society. For some people is a defensive weapon rather than an offensive weapon but the fact is it can be offensive, Mr. Speaker. So, Mr. Speaker, I am particularly heartened to read of the penalties for assault weapons, Mr. Speaker. I believe, and I think a Calypsoian recently said it, that if your guns bigger than the police would off to Ukraine and that Rattata is not for the streets, these are instruments of war for the killing of people in numbers, Mr. Speaker. And I think the harshest penalty should be given to them, Mr. Speaker. So, I support this in particular, Mr. Speaker. They have no place for those automatic assault weapons in St. Lucia, Mr. Speaker. There's no place for it. So, you have my fullest support on those provisions. Again, I want to join the Prime Minister to say to our young people who have been exploited because they are in vulnerable situations to think over and over before they engage in any act that will bring them faulty before this legislation. So, Mr. Speaker, I rest my case and I support the legislation. A member for Dan Rene North. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I rise in support of the amendment being proposed to the legislation before us. But like the presenters before me, Mr. Speaker, permit me to preface my very brief contribution with expressions of gratitude to, first of all, the leadership of the St. Lucia Labour Party for having placed their confidence in me as a candidate to contest the general elections of 2021. I also want to say thanks, Mr. Speaker, to the Prime Minister for placing his confidence in my ability to be a member of his cabinet and entrusting me with very important portfolios in the scheme of national development. And I also want to place on the record how grateful I am to the people of Dan Rene North, Mr. Speaker, who have gone to the polls on three different occasions to repose their confidence in my ability to be their parliamentary rep and to give expression to their concerns as beloved constituents. Mr. Speaker, I also want to thank my mother and my family. I want to thank my neighbours. I want to thank my constituency group in Dan Rene North for the support that they have given to me over the years. Mr. Speaker, today we celebrate one year in government after the last general election. And this, Mr. Speaker, is the most coveted, the most cherished, and arguably the most important for me. And you know why, Mr. Speaker? When I look back at the campaign that we ran in 2020-2021, Mr. Speaker, they onslaught the nastiness that was thrown in my direction, Mr. Speaker. And with the help of the people of Dan Rene North and my colleagues who were able to rise above that, Mr. Speaker. And for me to be able to stand here today and participate in the parliamentary discourse on behalf of the people of Dan Rene North, Mr. Speaker, I feel a sense of vindication. And so I must thank the people of Dan Rene North, Mr. Speaker. There was not much fanfare in our campaign, Mr. Speaker. We were guided by a very simple, unambiguous mantra, Mr. Speaker. Sean again. And, Mr. Speaker, and Mr. Speaker, I am extremely grateful, as I would have said, to be part of this cabinet. Mr. Speaker, I support the legislation as presented by the Prime Minister. Gun control, Mr. Speaker, has been a concept that has generated a lot of debate, not just in St. Lucia originally, but throughout the world. But today we focus on the situation as it affects our country. Mr. Speaker, every week, every month, we hear the horror stories, how firearms, illegal firearms, are being used in this country to unleash on people who otherwise, Mr. Speaker, cannot defend themselves. And in some cases, Mr. Speaker, those who probably have the capacity to defend themselves by the time the situation confronts them, it is already too late, Mr. Speaker, and funerals have been planned for them. Mr. Speaker, strengthening the legislation will not solve all the firearm problems and the crime situation we have in the country at the moment. But this represents a very significant step in ameliorating the situation in country today. And as a government, we will never cower, we will never, Mr. Speaker, move away from the reality and admit that there is a gun violence problem in this country. We are not the government to dig our heads like the outstreet in the sand and pretend everything is okay. Mr. Speaker, all of us on this side, we cringe, we hurt when we watch the news and we hear the horror stories, how young men in particular in this country are turning on each other with firearms that are not legal, Mr. Speaker, to solve their disputes. And as I said, strengthening the legislation on its own will not solve the problem, but it represents a significant step in ameliorating the situation. This has to be complimented, Mr. Speaker, by deliberate and targeted social interventions. Crime is a social construct. It is a mindset more often than not. And that is why, Mr. Speaker, when a St. Lucia Labor Party government can give expression and put on the front burner programs like Step and Smiles and people want to reduce that to interventions that are supposed to appease mendicants and poor people, Mr. Speaker. It is because they do not understand, Mr. Speaker, the extent to which, as simple as they may be, these programs go in trying to create an environment for people who otherwise, Mr. Speaker, cannot fend for themselves. And so, Mr. Speaker, I support the legislation as presented. The penalties for gun violence and possession have been made more stringent. And we are hoping, Mr. Speaker, that we'll serve as a deterrent to those individuals or the people in our society who believe, Mr. Speaker, they can disregard law and order, take matters into their hands and by so doing, they instill fear in the population and even further, Mr. Speaker, they do untold damage to the reputation of our country. Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank you all. I would like to say that I support the 100th Prime Minister of Venezuela and good morning that we have made a law that has made it more difficult for the world to join forces and for us to be able to do that we have to serve for our country so much more and that we can serve for the people of Venezuela that we know, Mr. Speaker that we know, Mr. Speaker, that we have a very good position with the country that we cannot serve to those individuals who do not have the right to serve against the law that we have to help the country I would also like to say to Mr. Speaker that yes, I would like to thank you for giving us these jobs in place, but the law is not the one that makes it more difficult for the world to be able to do physical work. This is the only solution for the crime situation in the country. I would like to thank you for your social programs, but I would also like to thank you for giving us these jobs in place. So Mr. Speaker, with this very, very brief intervention, I want to pledge my support to the Firearms Amendment Bill and I'm hoping that the desired results and effects, Mr. Speaker, will be there for all of St. Lucia to benefit from, in particular the people of Denrinov and the young men in this society who have, Mr. Speaker, for a long time now been the subject of the violence, the perpetrators of the violence that we have seen as it relates to the illegal use of firearms in this country. This does not solve the problem in its entirety, but as I repeat, Mr. Speaker, it is a step in the right direction and it is only after we come together, government opposition, civil society organizations and all patriots of this country that we can have a constructive conversation to chat a way forward, to deal with acts of criminality in our society. Mr. Speaker, we are leaders, we were elected as leaders and we have to demonstrate leadership when our country calls us, Mr. Speaker, to stand up and support what is right and so, Mr. Speaker, I support the legislation as presented by the Honourable Prime Minister. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Member for Meekwood South. Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, we too also have to recognize the first anniversary of the elections and recognize that one of the failings of our elections, Mr. Speaker, was the number of people that chose not to vote. In fact, 49% of the eligible voters in this country, Mr. Speaker, chose not to vote. And that's a sad indictment on all of us in this room. It's a sad indictment on both of our political parties in that we have to do things, Mr. Speaker, to continue to engage the confidence of the people and I'm really hoping that that's not lost on us and that we are all going to continue to make efforts. We're not perfect. None of us are. But the reality is we should all be striving for perfection. At this time, Mr. Speaker, I just wanted to really say thank you to the former candidate, the former representative of Meekoo North. I also want to say thank you to the former Minister of Economic Development and the technocrats that participated in the construction of the Meekoo Health Facility. I had the opportunity yesterday, Mr. Speaker, of actually taking a site tour of the facility and it was very impressive. This was a facility that was done with World Bank monies and was built to the new standard of resilience. The generators, the solar panels, the refrigerators that were there was really incredible. And my belief is that the design was actually undertaken by a local design firm. I say so not only because of the country at large and also because of Meekoo North but I also say so really because of the people in my own constituency, Mr. Speaker. The reality is that we do have two very good health care facilities, one in Deroso and the other one in T-Rochet, which one of them, the one in Deroso, was actually modernized and made a smart facility. But the reality is the new facility in Meekoo offers services that were not available in the other two health centers. And I think it's part of the overall plan of strengthening our community health services. And I just really want to say congratulations. I want to thank the government for continuing that project and doing such a fantastic job of the opening ceremony and letting people know that it's open. I mean, one of the facilities, Mr. Speaker, and I'm really hoping that the government will help fulfill that dream is the one of dentistry. Right now my understanding is that it's only really equipped to do cleaning and I'm really hoping that that will be expanded to include x-rays and that we can start seeing some of the dentists that are in the city spending a little bit more time in the community areas to make it easier, particularly for the elderly people who would have to commute some long distances to be able to get those levels of services. There's a pharmacy there and then maybe I can share that with the minister of finance. It's something I kept on going around the minister. I don't know why we have to fight so hard for this. The implementation of credit card machines in these facilities. I just, I don't get it in government. I tried my best when I was minister of finance to continue to push to make sure that when we have these public facilities and we're going to be selling any services that it would be made easier for people to do so and I know it's always been a question of what the cost is but maybe that's something that can be, I'm not blaming your government for that but maybe it's something that we can continue to strive for because it certainly makes life much more convenient. I also want to celebrate because, you know, two nights ago we had the final of a major football tournament in Dersault and with the field that we had and also with the lights my colleague who contested against me in the constituency I know had some very nice words to say and I want to say thank you very much for the words that you did and I'm going to thank you for the contributions of some of the trophies and everything else that you did and it was great to see that number of people coming out to event during the weekend like that and the economic activity that that created and that's what again, you know, having lights I'm having these Aster Turf facilities I'm also very encouraged to hear, Mr. Speaker, that Blackheart is going to be doing some of its matches there and I'm hoping that both Dersault and Miku and hopefully very soon Soufraire will be more utilized in hosting these events so I'm very, very grateful for those things The Minister of Housing is here I certainly would like to encourage him that he made certain promises to Remember, Miku Souf, you will get to the building that we are debating, right? I will Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker, for your latitude to help the persons in Dugard that he met with and I'm really hoping that he is going to facilitate them finding another piece of land and I also want to make a special appeal to him publicly, Mr. Speaker that before we left office that the Cabinet had approved the Ministry of Housing had approved and the Housing Development Board had also participated in the subdivision of the lands in Asia I believe we've gone as far to getting the approval on the prices and everything else and I'm hoping that he will find it to expedite that project I know that he knows the Miku area very, very well and how long the people in Asia have been waiting to rectify their land situation Okay, Mr. Speaker On the matter of the bill that we debate I want to say that I share my colleagues' comments that he put forward and I'm hoping that those are taken in the greatest amount of respect and earnest in that we in the opposition understand what our role is we understood our role from July 27th and we've never had any difficulties in accepting our role as an opposition and we put our minds and set our minds to doing the job of the opposition as well as we can and so we will find ourselves differing at times I'm hoping that government will see some of our points as being objective criticism in hopes that we can continue the same thing that you did when you were in opposition during our tenure and so we will continue to advocate and to participate in the parliamentary process in that good faith I noticed Mr. Speaker that many of the members really pointed out something that we had said from early with regards to this particular bill and I'm hoping that we take it in all sincerity the reality is is that we have had these laws what we're doing today is strengthening them i.e. the amount of time that people are going to go to jail or in fact the amount of the fines that we're going to have but the reality is Mr. Speaker we have been failing to get prosecutions and the question is is this going to change anything I mean I certainly know during my tenure in government recognizing and understanding the separation between the judiciary and ourselves it was very frustrating when you see people who are not even sometimes first time offenders but some people who are actually out on bail already for an offense who are then found with an illegal arm and are getting bail again and I have to say to you Mr. Speaker extremely frustrating for the police who go out of their way sometimes and do an investigation capture somebody and to see the judiciary system let them down that way so I think that this is a move in the right direction but I do believe there is a lot more work that has to be done in working with the magistrates with arms length away in making sure that they understand and appreciate the leniency sometimes that we're seeing the courts convey to people who have been brought in with illegal arms and I am for one who believes that a person certainly is innocent until you're proven guilty but the reality firearms are continuing and I've listened to all the contributions here today Mr. Speaker all of us have had the same problem in our constituencies young persons die because of gun violence and whether it's out of rage whether it's out of revenge whether it's out of something more conniving than that and it's not only the individual that has perished but it's also the parents or parents family members and certainly the fear that it instills in our own community and we're seeing right now in view for itself as an example Mr. Speaker where persons are actually voluntarily going home early because of fear so it's not just the immediate impact on the family but it's the continual impact and the degradation that it's creating within our own society both economically and socially so Mr. Speaker you know there's a saying that says and I love it action speaks louder than this so it's very difficult for me and I think for other people to accept that after one year that this is it and that there are certain actions that the government have taken in the last year then in many ways contradict and undermine what we're seeing here as being put forward as a good step moving forward the reality is that the canine dogs Mr. Speaker the fact is that when we were in government in 2006 to 2010 and there was an amnesty program and I think there was also one during your government's reign before 2006 and where persons were encouraged to bring their arms in and exchange for money and the reality is that many people brought their arms in and what did they do took the money to go and buy another gun because guns are readily available on the streets too readily available I know it's always going to be difficult to say complete elimination of arms but the statistics that I had access to were showing that in excess of 85% of the illegal arms coming into San Lucia are coming in containers and are coming in barrels so it's not even to say that they're sneaking them in the middle of the night to some secluded beach right underneath our nose as was being said by other persons in this great house Mr. Speaker was it the fact that the fact that we're seeing the need to solve crime that it's a holistic issue I keep saying for me my motivating factor in terms of being a lippness test in terms of what we were doing Mr. Speaker are we challenging our young people are we giving them a better option than what they seem to be choosing right now so the development of our sporting programs or after school programs the development of small businesses I know we're going to be discussing the youth economy bill but the reality is we need a holistic approach one of those things was border control I'm very happy to hear that the passport section of it is being introduced despite the long lines of the passport department this morning I certainly hope that that's not a sign of other things but Mr. Speaker your control is absolutely necessary the need to understand that customs has failed when it comes to the security of our borders they consider they continue to consider themselves as revenue generators that their job is to collect money our slasper board has not had enough returns to purchase the equipment that was necessary I'll give you an example Mr. Speaker at the fast ferry terminal when new scanners were put in within a week somebody had poured water on the scanners now that cannot be an accident Mr. Speaker during my tenure we brought in not the sophisticated scanners because those are very expensive but scanners for the barrels those too were damaged there's something wrong that the things that are right underneath our nose and when we talk about the member from Miku North talked about the courage and the bravery to do the things that are difficult it is an issue in this country we all have to accept that there's something wrong with our border control system that's allowing this number of guns to so easily penetrate and come into our country and the Prime Minister is 100% correct Mr. Speaker we don't make arms here we don't build arms here they're all imported and between Martinique and countries south of us it's so easy for people to come in to bring arms in so if we're legitimately going to see a more meaningful impact on helping young people there really is those after-school programs ways of getting them into enterprise in which they can make a meaningful income a reasonable way a meaningful income meaning that they can earn enough money to own a home to own a car to want to bring up their children that's the standard that we need to be striving for Mr. Speaker and as I said many times in opposition I welcome the government doing things that are better than what we did I'd be the first person to celebrate it because that's what we're supposed to do is to continue to encourage each other to do better but if the rhetoric becomes more about saying I did this and you didn't do this and it becomes more name calling then everybody loses Mr. Speaker so I want to say Mr. Speaker I really believe that we have to step in the right direction and like my other colleagues in the house that this is not going to be enough in itself I want to say to the government that I'm concerned for many of the citizens in this country because they too get to reflect on the first year and the question is are you better off today than you were a year ago and that's a big question and another member from Casteries Central but the reality is maybe there are people within his circle that maybe couldn't say that but I can say to you that that is not what the mass majority of people in this country are saying and there's a lot more work to be done and I'm sorry Mr. Speaker but trying to use the recession using inflation supply chain issues as the reason why you could not fulfill your obligations there's always going to be a crisis Mr. Speaker that's the nature of what being in government is and that's what's happening in the world things that we could not even imagine all of a sudden are being confronted with and that is the job of any government is to keep the goals that you promised of making and putting people first but the reality is I think that this government will soon find out in that in order to put people first you must put the country first the country must be on a strong footing with the resources to be able to deliver to the people of this country what they so richly deserve and the opposition will continue to support any position that shows improvement in a non bias way to the population of this country so Mr. Speaker I want to again reiterate the comments that my colleague made from Schwazel that there are some critical issues that if in fact the minister who made the promise of putting the chairman as the commissioner if he changes tomorrow does the new minister have the same obligation so I think if that was what the intent is I'm hoping that the government would see fit to make that amendment again Mr. Speaker thank you very much and I want to thank the people from Miku South for their continued support I want to thank the people for their continued support and everybody know that we do our job in opposition without any ranker without any animosity without any hatred but simply with the idea of continuing to put our constituents and the development of our countries as our priority Thank you Member of the Gastry Centre Thank you Mr. Can I borrow this? Are you going now? God bless my eyesight Thank you very much Mr. Speaker Mr. Speaker I intend on taking a slightly different approach to my contribution to this debate today and to probably bring home concentration on social interventions and juxtapose it to the legislation as a multi-faceted approach to crime fighting Before doing so Mr. Speaker I noted some areas of concern by the member for Swazel Sultibus One was adequately answered by the member for Gastry's South When he asked why would you have a board approving a firearm Mr. Speaker the perception the likelihood of corruption when authority resides in one is tremendously depleted as it resides in many Then Mr. Speaker he spoke of someone someone who is in possession of a licensed firearm and through human error not the error of my 3-day visit was a blatant lie and through human error forgets to renew his license Mr. Speaker the member for Swazel must understand that the mischief the legislation is attempting to cure is the proliferation of unlicensed guns and not necessarily a licensed gun that has seen that has seen expiration of the license and that is exactly why the discretion is granted to an adjudicating officer the magistrate or judge a judge will not sentence any person whose license has run out for 2 days for 2 days to 10 years imprisonment or to find them $50,000 that I can tell you I can assure you will never happen because the Privy Council our most upper leg court will not permit it to happen so I felt Mr. Speaker I should just lay his fairs to rest Mr. Speaker as we observe our first year as a government we are having to deal with the enormous challenges we encountered but never envisage on assumption of office after all the liberation of the people of St. Lucia came exactly a year ago but it brought about with it Mr. Speaker unforeseen and unenviable and financial waters that would require a captain of immense economic skill to navigate the ineptitude and non-existent management skill of his predecessor in title has had no doubt to cause this other man to build inner strength resilience of immense proportions and he has fared extremely well you want his name it's no other than Philip Joseph Pierre I think it is the wrong place congratulations to you captain extraordinary I want to thank the people of Cassry Central who have on four occasions fitted fit to have me represent them in this August chamber Angel Cobb with team Charmaine Jenny and the team goes on and on to see Yasme and all the others who stood with me and rallied with me today is one year since we were liberated you see Mr. Speaker sometimes the little man on the street may not fully appreciate how government works government is not in the business of making profit government is run through the collection of revenue and there lays the fundamental difference between running a profit based business and running a government and I believe that's where the ex-prime minister field tremendously while citizens may have an expectation legitimate that is that government will discharge its social responsibilities such as providing education for our young ones fixing the roads providing healthcare and a host of other responsibilities but more appropriately in today's context given this bill equipping the police force with not only the necessary power but the tools and equipment to combat crime all of these Mr. Speaker place the coffers of government on the tremendous pressure government has to do this and government has to do that but if government has to do this and do that what can be done if government collects nothing you see if government does not collect government cannot deliver and that's why Mr. Speaker crime tackling must take a multifaceted approach it has to be taken from a social front as well as others to do so Mr. Speaker you must have in place social programs that assist in poverty alleviation as the saying goes an idle mind is a devil's workshop and oh how true that is Mr. Speaker because whilst we lamented the situation about crime what did the last government expect when they stopped the step program the step program Mr. Speaker that was essentially a map for the societal sideline and the indigent what did they expect Mr. Speaker when they stopped the laptop program and was asked in fact they asked us what did they expect it has since been reinstituted what did they expect Mr. Speaker when they stopped the distress fund a fund again to assist the poor the indigent and the dispossessed this government has reinstituted it Mr. Speaker what did they expect when they left the police without vehicles Mr. Speaker and I want to commend again the prime minister and minister of finance that in less than one year this police force has been Member for Switzerland you have a point of order Point of order Mr. Speaker to say that the past administration left the police force without vehicles you know that's not the case and your colleagues you can correct Mr. Speaker I don't know if the eloquence is too far fetched but I will break it down and say without adequate vehicles in working condition does my qualification suit your mental capacity my friend good so left the police without adequate vehicles in working condition and Mr. Speaker tell me if I'm wrong in less than one year this administration has given the police force over 20 brand new vehicles you care about the police you care about crime am I misleading definitely not over 20 vehicles Mr. Speaker in less than one year so Mr. Speaker when we talk about crime fighting we don't fight crime by just uttering words of encouragement or words of supposed wisdom some of the most stupid people you will ever find they will speak in terms that would captivate even the person that is the most difficult to embrace so so social programs which this government is heavy on must remain one of the facets one of the corridors of approach to this mammoth task Mr. Speaker but you see Mr. Speaker the social interventions that we have now rolled out require money they require money they need to be financed don't think the youth economy the bill that we shall soon be debating sprung from nowhere it did not it is a special program designed to put our young people on the right trap all in an effort to sweat them from the involvement in criminal activity millions Mr. Speaker have been allocated for that program the youth at risk program is another all of these Mr. Speaker quite apart from the bill today which is the intensification of the penalties quite apart from that the social interventions are necessary and we need money for them Mr. Speaker those programs must be funded and you know Mr. Speaker I want to say this I want to say this categorically member for Swazel and without an aorta of fear of contradiction that the last administration put this country in financial turbulence never let this up at work then the administration you you you financial turbulence Mr. Speaker not the blue wave the blue wave turned red Mr. Speaker quite apart from giving away hundreds of millions of dollars which we can now use to expand on social programs to deter crime the bad decisions made by the last administration Mr. Speaker you know what you normally hear on a death announcement too numerous to mention that is how bad it is Mr. Speaker I mean Mr. Speaker let's look at it if we could have recovered the monies to your king 120 million to bring horses on an air-conditioned jet and today we have to fight crime member for Swazel Mr. Speaker again the member is Mr. Lady in the House the member is indicating that the government paid monies to bring to you horses on a jet is that what the member is saying that the government paid it Mr. Speaker we cannot allow the member to be Mr. Speaker Mr. Speaker I am totally flabbergasted by that intrusion by the member from Swazel I'll tell you why the man signed the agreement he later said he did not know what was in the agreement but today he know about horses you signed the Tewa King Agreement with the Bible clause went on national TV and said that you signed it but you didn't even know it existed but Mr. Speaker let me proceed in peace so I was saying Mr. Speaker we need the social programs to be juxtaposed to those draconian measures we are now implementing but we need money for the implementation but we had an aircraft landing with police protection for horses air-conditioned aircraft woman all television stations are on horses on horses then Mr. Speaker the road 13 million the abattoir 24 million alternative land 11 million we now have to transport garbage everyday from view for to day glow $75,000 a month and then you'll have the audacity to talk about fighting crime acquired a hotel Mr. Speaker a hotel with registered debt of $50 million $135 million Caribbean jewels Caribbean Caribbean member for Suzel I was hoping that the members I was hoping that again you'd have come up with that Mr. Speaker because on three occasions he brought this up in his house Mr. Speaker and I would like once and for to put to the record Mr. Speaker the government they did it invests in Lucia through a receiver and the member knows what a receiver is when a receiver is appointed by a court and the investor and Lucia paid the receiver so it is a receiver's responsibility to settle any outstanding debts the government has no liability for the loan the government made arrangements with the receiver member you'll mislead the house let me you see Mr. Speaker sometimes when I don't go into the intricacies of a transaction I remember to be fair you have made a direct statement that the government acquired a hotel are you standing by that I'm standing by it Mr. Speaker with instructions from the then prime minister that invests in Lucia should the responsibility of payment to a receiver but it was cabinet's decision to acquire Mr. Speaker it was cabinet's decision to acquire and I I was referring to the process it is the same way Mr. Speaker the land that shocked the land that shocked by the roundabout was vested in a receiver it was vested in a receiver the last administration acquired it so excuse me you know and those are the kind of bad decisions that have us in the state we are today how on earth invest in Lucia St. Lucia institution establishment a hotel has been sitting there totally abandoned for a number of years and here come Tiputut and says look let's take it let's take it despite registered debt of 135 million dollars you know you know the land that the shock roundabout Mr. Speaker the land was in the hand of a receiver the same way it was acquired why and today we have to implement social programs we have to be begging for money you think we want to increase the penalties to such draconian levels we almost have no choice we have no choice you have depleted our resources and this was a crime an ex-minister of finance would have been sentenced to life imprisonment Mr. Speaker over 150 million dollars on a glorified car park that they call St. Jude notwithstanding we had one that was about 80% complete over 150 million and we discovered in a kind of surreptitious fashion a direct award of 70 million issued 11 days before election 11 days before election but guess what the peers there were smart enough to send it to the AG the peers said you see that one I'm not interfering AG I need your advice and so Mr. Speaker it remained in a bay and stand guard the people of this country were not deprived of another 70 million dollars you know and on top of all of that Mr. Speaker he squandered so much because you want the political political climate to suit you you reduce that from 15% to 12.5% and I could tell you this and I want to say it in both English and Korean Mr. Speaker that the reduction in that from 15% to 12.5% did not no solution felt any great reprieve from that reduction you go to the supermarket you'll pay more forlessness so Mr. Speaker that was a bad decision and that decision on its own Mr. Speaker is costing the country 270 million dollars for our five-year term money I know our prime minister can use to put our people first 270 million dollars that bad decision cost this country you know exactly so Mr. Speaker had the last minister of finance not interfere with the vat rate we would have had 270 million dollars more to spend in this term Mr. Speaker and let me just say this Mr. Speaker we need to fight crime we need to institute the social programs that require money and sadly when you are bringing up a child you may treat the child in such a way that the child feels that you're doing them cruelty but you have to put the child on the right track in that regard Mr. Speaker it's a tough decision it is my view my personal view that this country has to be placed back on the right track it is my view Mr. Speaker that at some point yes we are born on the right track but we have to correct some of the misdeeds the mistakes that the predecessor entitled the prime minister mean and I want to say this for you the prime minister we want to make money we have to pass the law we have to work with the police everything is good but it is for us to put the child on the right track in order to make the young people the young people we can't do that but to do that That was 15 percent the first minister I�� the first minister finalised the election he didn't listen to the somebody two person two point five percent no앉atiyo so let's make it the first party let's make it the first place we have to chase Morris That's the main thing And let me repeat, it's not the government's position. It's my personal view that that decision has to be revisited. We have to deliver for our people. So Mr. Speaker, I won't be too long again, five minutes. Let us now see that all social intervention programs are financed. In each and every society, there are a very small number of people, a small percentage who, despite whatever you put in place for them, believe that not pursuing crime, not pursuing a law abiding, is the way to go. The increased penalties, Mr. Speaker, are meant for the very few because by and large, we are a law abiding society. But when you tell me, despite our smallness and our huge homicide rate, ranking very high per capita, over 95% of the homicides are committed with guns. We have no choice but to deal with the situation head on. Our society, Mr. Speaker, must be returned to one where peace and tranquility prevail. But some people, like I said, just don't believe in it. And when you tell me, it is this person in one instance, Mr. Speaker, who has the recipient of 17 bullets, 17 bullets, if there is anything called overkill, that situation exemplifies it. And the new firearms art, Mr. Speaker, it establishes a board for assessing the approval of licenses. And of course, it will be chaired by the Commissioner. As it relates to ordinary weapons, Mr. Speaker, I suspect it is a recommendation I will make when we get to committee stage, Mr. Speaker. I don't think we'll need to send the ordinary weapons to indictment. In other words, if one commits an indictable offence like a murder robbery and with it comes a summary charge, then invariably both can be tried by the High Court. But, Mr. Speaker, we have to deal with those offenders with due dispatch, expedition beyond measure. We have to deal with them hurriedly. Quick, fast and in a hurry, as they say, colloquially. And so, the smaller weapons, Mr. Speaker, I support the 10-year imprisonment term and the $50,000 fine. Although, Mr. Speaker, I was feeling the pulse of the people earlier and one guy said to me, by the time you give a man 10 years for possession of a firearm, when he gets his discount, he only spends six years because he spends, he gets one-third off. So, basically, he was advising to even increase it. And, Mr. Speaker, the penalty has already been so draconian when you speak to the ordinary solution who could vent in that manner and support, Mr. Speaker, that kind of penalty, it speaks to the frustration of our people. But, you know, Mr. Speaker, I quite like the automatic weapons and the penalties. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that in committee stage, the minimum fine is supposed to be $200,000. $200,000 an imprisonment for 25 years to life. And I believe, Mr. Speaker, those kinds of deterring sentences must be on the books to ensure that we as a government do whatever we can do within the limits of our authority to ensure that we return this country to a state of community. So, Mr. Speaker, our government is attacking crime in a multifaceted way. Why it will cause the social interventions to unfold? Why it will cause the police to be equipped with both human resources, tools, vehicles, etc.? We are obligated to send a strong signal to the very few who believe they can indulge despite our best efforts. And with that, Mr. Speaker, I rest my case supporting the amendments wholeheartedly. Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. The member for Danry South. Mr. Speaker, I rise in support of this bill being debated in the House today. Mr. Speaker, this crime situation is becoming a very serious problem in St. Lucia. And I'm happy to stand there to be part of this debate and to really offer the support to this government in terms of attempting to address this problem. Mr. Speaker, a long time ago, I remember hearing of a gun incident in Castries or in Viewfort. But Mr. Speaker, today, we hear it in the North, in the South, in the West, in the East, Mr. Speaker. And Mr. Speaker, I'm sure you'll recall in the last few months in Danry South, we lost a number of young people as a result of gun violence. But Mr. Speaker, before I do that, I go further. I want to thank the people of Danry, Rakai and Lime for placing their confidence in me to serve them as the parliamentary rep. I want to say a big thank you to them, Mr. Speaker. And to say a big thank you to my ministry staff, Mr. Speaker, for the support they have given me, especially celebrating this one-year anniversary, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, this crime situation must be dealt with, Mr. Speaker, because it is creating a fair amount of populace, Mr. Speaker. Our business people are worried, they are fearful, Mr. Speaker, because their businesses are not doing very well because of the crime issue. And it is a matter that we must deal with as a government. And I heard all the speakers before me say it's a part of a strategy, Mr. Speaker. This debate today will not solve the issue of crime in St. Lucia, but it is part of a strategy. Our government was voted in on the 26th of July last year. And it was because the people had very little or no confidence in the previous government to tackle the crime issue as it should. And so, Mr. Speaker, the onus is on this government to make it happen. But Mr. Speaker, I will not be long, because I know there are other speakers to speak after. But I want to send a message to our young people. And Mr. Speaker, it's really simple. Too often, Mr. Speaker, our young people are gunned down at an early age in this country. Too often, we see images of what we all describe as senseless skillings on social media, in the press and on the news broadcast. Mr. Speaker, I would like to appeal to our young people that they should stay away from guns. Please put down the weapons, treat each order with love and respect. I urge our young people that they should play their part in preserving their lives. We need to sustain every human resource we have on this island. The next life you take could have been the world's next scientist, Nobel Prize winner or champion. We never know. Mr. Speaker, I am also calling on parents, civil society and the churches to embrace our young people. Let us help them resolve conflicts amicably. Let us reposition the thinking, Mr. Speaker, that the gun is not the answer. Mr. Speaker, it is my hope and prayer that this fire arm legislation will be the catalyst that eliminates gun violence on our island once and for all. And Mr. Speaker, in closing, I stand in support of this fire arm legislation. I thank you. Mr. Speaker, in this honorable house on this historic day, today, the 26th of July, 2022, marks one year since this government was elected to office. Permit me, Mr. Speaker, give me leave, let me thank the persons and the residents and voters in Babolo who place their confidence in me. And I know that right now we have 18 development committees throughout Babolo. And we start from Deborah, down to Gara, Bogis, Monsito, Lager, Plateau, Pebush, Lacquer, Babolo Central, Tishime, Fawasaw, Tetsime, Talvan, Kakojua, Kabish, Balata, Timon and Union Terrace. Mr. Speaker, when all Mr. Speaker, that the Fawasaw fortress came out in the rescue of your humble servant and my opponent, the Fawasaw garrison, before the Fawasaw garrison had struck the final blow of 579 votes were still outstanding, I will continue to do that. I want for having reposed confidence in me to work in his cabinet, I want to thank the members of the St. Lucia Labour Party for giving me support. At this point, Mr. Speaker, after one year, I want to thank the Ministry of the Public Service, Home Affairs, Labour and Gender Affairs. Mr. Speaker, my driver always asked me, Madam Minister, you do not like sunset. And when he asked me that is because I hardly live my office before sunset, because I'm determined to serve the people of St. Lucia. Mr. Speaker, speak to the Bill and Title Firearms Amendment, which is one of the strategies this government is implementing to ensure that St. Lucia's and visitors are safe and secure. Mr. Speaker, when I hear of firearms, many things cross my mind. The big question is, how did we get there? Mr. Speaker told about the number of persons who have become victims of gun violence in our country. It's like we have opened a butcher shop in St. Lucia. Mr. Speaker, this government will not allow this to continue. Mr. Speaker, there is a June 27, 2022 report written by one, do we then held in an article entitled, murder rates in the Caribbean, where he cited the number of murders in St. Lucia, giving us a 40 per capita rate in 2021, Mr. Speaker, which is extremely high. St. Lucia in that year fell among the top five countries in Latin America and the Caribbean with the highest murder rate. Mr. Speaker, we cannot do the cries of our people calling on this government to do something. The police and home affairs have been calling for stronger legislation to allow them to carry out their work in combating crime. Combating crime is a very complex issue and this government will do whatever is within its power to control crime, to reduce crime and to make St. Lucia a safe environment for all of us, all of us to live in. Mr. Speaker, we need to help our people in St. Lucia to manage and resolve conflicts among themselves. We cannot allow our people to be murdered or to murder each other on a regular basis like this. This government cares about its people and therefore we need to do what the people have asked of us to give them the best quality representation. Mr. Speaker, the Department of Home Affairs set out to work immediately on a swimming office and the Prime Minister under his watch asked that we form a unit called Youth at Risk and Mr. Speaker, this gun violence that we are talking about and the new inmates that are admitted at Baudelaire, they are primarily young persons. We cannot allow talented, intelligent, productive persons in our country to go to their graves at such a tender age and therefore we have to work harder, Mr. Speaker, for us to rescue the next generation. As you know, Mr. Speaker, we've spoken in this House and the last administration put zero budget, zero in the budget for training and yet we say our officers are not doing what they are supposed to do. This government has put in money there to train our officers so that they can do their work better. Today, as we speak, Mr. Speaker, we have started training of police officers on how to handle domestic violence. It's starting today, a three-day training. When we look at the situation of Baudelaire Correctional Facility, we have the fire service, we have immigration, we have the marine units, we have these officers are responsible in one way or the other to ensure that this country is safe and they need training, they need support for them to carry out their duties. Mr. Speaker, we need to ensure that the persons who are working to keep us safe have a good working environment for them too and therefore in looking at the conditions of service for our officers, recently we saw promotion of police officers. That is human resource capacity, incentives and motivation for them to continue to perform their duties. We have mentioned in this House the equipment that we have to give our officers to carry out their work and we spoke of the vehicles. Mr. Speaker, in my report card, I can tell you, Mr. Speaker, I have visited 10 police stations around the island and I can tell you, Mr. Speaker, I'm fully aware of the conditions in which our officers work and I have reported to the Prime Minister and he has given the nod that he is going to address the concerns. Mr. Speaker, at Borderlay, when we talk about fighting crime, we are looking at all the different units that are together fighting crime. And the Borderlay Correctional Facility, as we speak now, Mr. Speaker, this government has put in the resources to secure the place, to undergo repairs at Borderlay. And we have just completed a comprehensive review of the Borderlay Correctional Facility. And the Prime Minister has been waiting patiently for this report and this will set the way forward on how we address the situation at Borderlay. Mr. Speaker, this government has put in allocation and we are talking about gun violence, we are talking about imprisonment, we are talking about fine, but there is another cost to this government. When we send them to prison, we still have to feed them. We still have to maintain them. We still have to get money, the same money that was laundered in the last five years. We cannot continue on the same path. The monies were thrown behind boats while some were flying in the air, like the Amazona versicola, Mr. Speaker, now we have to make water come out of rocks for us to serve the people in St. Lucia, Mr. Speaker. But this government is committed to serving the people and we will do it and we have started and after one year when you look back, you are seeing St. Lucia's nose is already above water because we are way down in the ocean. We are coming up, Mr. Speaker. We look at the fire service, this is another security area. This government, upon assuming office, recruited 49 officers, persons that you have to get a new budget to pay their salary. Mr. Speaker, so far I have visited eight fire stations around the island. When we talk about security, we are talking about protection of the people. We saw how the fire officers came out during COVID and saved lives. We are trying to save lives while persons want to get illegal fire arms to destroy others. Mr. Speaker, emigration is another area we have to secure our people. I visited the immigration department. Right now we have challenges in terms of the facility and we have to find a way to improve it or to relocate them. You heard the launching of the border control, criminals come into this country and they go out and we do not have the security measures to assess that, that this government is putting in place to ensure that this is completed. On Monday yesterday, we launched the E-Passport. The E-Passport is another area where we secure our borders to keep our country safe. Because when we talk about gun violence, we talk about crime. We have to ensure that the criminals are caught and we do not allow our borders to be opened so that they can escape. We cannot allow criminals to come in, commit their crime and then leave. So all these areas have to be under control, Mr. Speaker. So it is not just about the legislation, but it is about application and implementation so that we get the desired results. Because sometimes we have laws on our books, but if these laws are not enforced, we do not have the resources to enforce the laws, then they become an exercise in futility. And for this, Mr. Speaker, I can tell you the Domestic Violence Bill is one that was brought to this house and so far it has set St. Glutia on course. The Fire Arms Amendment Bill today is another bill that's coming in to secure our people. Mr. Speaker, we cannot allow our beautiful island to become a war zone. The Calypsoanian already said those who want to fight war should go, Mr. Minister of Creative Industries. Where do we send them? Off to Ukraine. So we do not have a war zone in St. Glutia. We want to create a safe environment for all of us sitting in this house, those outside, those in the communities. We want to keep all St. Glutia safe. And when we talk about safety, sometimes we look at others. We do not look at ourselves. We have to keep each and everyone safe. Even those who did not use the money, we have to keep them safe so that the next bill you come with, the next bill on this agenda that deals with the special prosecutor, we will let him handle that aspect of it. So Mr. Speaker, I want to say that we cannot sit by and allow innocent people to be slain or slaughtered. Our people should have possession of guns that are within the laws of this country. Our citizens should use guns for protection and it should be used for reasonable causes that are absolutely necessary. Mr. Speaker, the Fire Arm Amendment Bill is necessary to reassure the people that this government under the leadership of the Honourable Prime Minister cares about them and we are putting them first. And some people, they take this phrase for granted and they say, oh, you are putting them first. I say we did not say who because we will not put the criminals first. We will put our people who are contributing to national development first. So we are committed to putting our people first to ensure that we have a safe and secure environment. We have to be proactive. Mr. Speaker, the bill speaks to possession of illegal firearms and trafficking of firearms. When I entered in this ministry, I got on the desk, the police have been complaining that they do not know how to handle trafficking of firearms because the legislation was inadequate. I am very pleased that this legislation will address that, Mr. Speaker. The penalty is increased and the legal and law enforcement officers have to be very vigilant to ensure that the legislation is implemented according to its stipulations. Mr. Speaker, bills like the Fire Arm Amendment Bill is expected to act as a deterrent to persons who may be tempted to acquire illegal firearms. And Mr. Speaker, this firearm that some people began panicking and there is a gentleman who approached me and he told me he thinks he is going to buy an illegal firearm. I said, well, if you do it, you will be at odds with the law and I will not be able to help you. He said, but I want to protect myself, but I said, no, you still have to have a legal firearm. I am not afford to have an illegal firearm. Mr. Speaker, there are many persons who are engaged in using illegal firearms and among them are our young persons. Mr. Speaker, COVID-19 did not help our cause. Our young people were left idle for a long time and the hardcore criminals decided that they are going to recruit them. I gave them my little money and let them use the firearms. We have to pull these children back. Some of them drop out of school. We have to find these children. And I hold a lot of the parents responsible because these children sleep in a home. They have parents and they must take charge of the children. Mr. Speaker, we have a common understanding that a gun is a dangerous weapon and has the potential to destroy someone's life. For this reason, Mr. Speaker, we should ensure that we tighten measures to restrict any forms of illegal firearm in this country of ours, our beautiful Helen of the West. Mr. Speaker, this bill is designed to manage and improve the process through which persons would be able to obtain firearms legally and to help them to act responsibly. And this is why there is a board so you have greater transparency in the process. It is not a one woman or one man show. So people have been letting me know that they have applied for firearms for years. But they never got any acknowledgement of the application. Nobody told them why they cannot get it. So let us put some level of transparency in the process so people understand that it is done and not at the will and fancy of just one person who may decide you get it or you do not get it. And I believe I support this board that will allow greater access and persons who want to apply for firearms, once they meet the requirement, there is no objection to that. Because there are people with firearms in St. Louis and they are legal. And this bill is not challenging that, it's the illegal ones and those who use it to do the things that are wrong. The law covers that. Mr. Speaker, I lend my support to this firearms amendment bill to give the citizens a greater sense of security and safety as they move around their daily activities. Mr. Speaker, I thank you. The member of the guys trees north. Mr. Speaker, at this time last year, the 26th of July, the writing was on the wall. The writing was on the wall because obviously it was a bloodbath. By this time, the people had spoken. And while I stand this afternoon to speak on the firearms amendment bill, I believe it is appropriate that we reflect on the actions of the people of this country. Who, last year, said enough was enough and felt that there was a need to make some bold moves, take some bold decisions and to put this country on a path of prosperity, tranquility and honest leadership. The red brigade for bread, freedom and justice, under the command of the five-star general, General Philip J. Pierre, led his St. Lucia Labour Party to a resounding victory a year ago. I take this opportunity as the leader of the blue wave. Who saw the need to transform what had taken root in this country into a positive direction? I take this opportunity to congratulate General Philip J. Pierre and his team of victorious members of the St. Lucia Labour Party. Mr. Speaker, but it didn't end here, it didn't end here. There were those who understood that on the 8th of June when I made my move and explained my move and said that I have served you well under one banner, my term has come to an end and I believe I must now present myself on the platform of independence, like the member for country central, those who were yellow and felt the mood and had the conviction joined me. Those who believed in me over the years continued with me and those who from the other side, the Labour Party came forward and said brother, we are here with you collectively, unitedly, we are going to fight them and together we shall be victorious. I take this opportunity Mr. Speaker to congratulate all those who gave me yet another opportunity for the 6th time to represent them in this parliament among a number of individuals, a team of individuals who have demonstrated tranquility, compassion, understanding, transparency and accountability with a zero tolerance on corruption where I feel comfortable in, I thank them for having joined me and made me the success that I am today to represent them yet another time. I want to thank them Mr. Speaker because year after year they gave me the benefit of the doubt, they gave me the support and they continue to say move on, march on and represent us in this parliament. I want to thank all of the constituents of Cassry's North. I will not venture to mention names individually but I thank particularly my family, my wife, my constituency branch who have been there with me, the Cassry's North, St. Lucia Labour Party branch who has stood with me in this last election and others throughout the constituency who have created this wave, this movement and who will continue to ensure that St. Lucia repriserves the administration and bring the level of stability that is required in this country. Now Mr. Speaker, I am here today to support the FIAM's amendment bill which I believe is necessary. It is necessary because of where we are now in this country. It is necessary because of the spiraling violence within our St. Lucia community. Not for the first time but definitely this time there must be an end to it and we must be bold. And so Mr. Speaker, I would like to make three statements. One, those patriotic St. Lucia's working on the front lines of our justice system deserve all the help they can get from this government and the people of St. Lucia. Two, no citizen is immune to crime as we have all experienced the situation. And three, as a society, if we collectively do not put all our shoulders to the wheel to tackle crime of every dimension, our society will be in for the worse. Mr. Speaker, crime in our small island has been on the upward trajectory for some time now and certain categories, including gun violence, are on the rise. That leaves us, Mr. Speaker, to conclude that the several measures that we have taken in the past, past administration after administration, in an attempt to curb crime have been inadequate or perhaps those measures have received less than optimal implementation. This brings me, Mr. Speaker, to the point that when we pass legislation, we should not only simply pass legislation, but we must create the environment, the infrastructure and the institutions with the power to be able to ensure legislation is effective. And so, Mr. Speaker, while this amendment is a bold, strong and commendable measure, we all know that no single measure implemented or instituted on its own will cause any significant dent in our efforts to reduce crime. We must tackle the problem head on and in a holistic manner, this goes out without saying. And so while today we are here to amend the existing legislation, Mr. Speaker, I know this is only part of a broader spectrum of things to come. Stopwithstanding the need for a holistic approach, the need, these, this measure before us today is a critical cog in that wheel of justice that I am hoping will send a strong message, a strong signal to indicate that we as a government are taking an important step in our crime-fighting efforts to safeguard the people of this country. Mr. Speaker, gun violence statistics over the years have grown exponentially and our citizens are clearly at the end of the tether. Their fears are on the spiral once again and they are looking to this government of hope to bring peace, harmony and tranquility to our land. Mr. Speaker, consequently, we need to get a grip on gun violence, to begin with and to mitigate and derail the carnage in our once peaceful hailing of the West. You heard some of the members, Mr. Speaker, who can attest to individuals close to them, family and friends who have succumbed to gun violence. And you have heard, Mr. Speaker, the plea for strong legislation, for strong programs to deal with the current situation in the land. Our strategic imperatives, Mr. Speaker, must include a curtailment of the proliferation of guns in our country. Mr. Speaker, too many guns are in the hands of the wrong persons and the legislation that we seek to amend to strengthen in this August chamber today will go a long way if it is enforced by the agencies relevant to enforcement. Mr. Speaker, we must never relent on our crime-fighting efforts and strategies for the very success of this government and for this matter any other government will hinge on how well we can protect the constitutional right to provide security for our citizens and those who choose to visit us as a destination. Mr. Speaker, it is imperative that we protect, secure and ensure that our country is safe for our people, our visitors and our friends. Mr. Speaker, let me digress a bit to say that Japan, a country of over 260 million people, have fewer than 10 gun-related murders a year, fewer than 10 gun-related murders a year. Our next-door neighbor, if I'm right, Grenada, this year, a few weeks ago, recorded their fourth gun-related murder and were screaming for reform and the need to address the situation in that country. The efforts in Japan, Mr. Speaker, at limited gun violence have been undergirded by the implementation of gun control imperatives, gun control. Mr. Speaker, let me also profit the opportunity, while I speak of Japan, to express my deepest sympathy to families, friends and the people of Japan for the brutal and cowardly murder of the former Prime Minister, Shinzo Abe, which occurred a few weeks ago. Japan is a great friend of St. Lucia, as they continue to contribute to our social and economic development. In fact, the new bridge being built in Kaldissa is a gift from the government and people of Japan. One which was granted, agreed to, approved in 2015, and the march continued since then, and today we are at the stage when we are about to complete it. We convey our sentiments to the people of Japan. Mr. Speaker, if all of us agree that gun violence levels are unacceptable, then this parliament must do something very tangible about it. Break down the partisan walls, break down our egos, and let us work together. There must be no halfway measures. Whatever we do now or in the future must stand the test of time, and the only way we can stand the test of time in this parliament by moving legislations, moving programs and approving programs, and being strong enough is that as we as parliament to stand together and find the common enemy that of violence, particularly enabled by guns. Mr. Speaker, violence is a symptom of social harms which include substance abuse, adverse childhood experiences, and trauma and poor mental health. These Mr. Speaker cannot be forgotten while we take the hard measures, while we attempt to intercept and mitigate and to deal with the criminal ones. We must begin to do the necessary transformation for the future to change the mindset of our society and to make our young people more responsible and certainly to be more peaceful. Mr. Speaker, in any planning environment, we must give a serious consideration to the causes of deviant behavior in our society. A well-defined problem will always lead to adequate policy formulation, and this is where we should begin as we look to the future, but at the same time indeed deal with the current problem that we have at our doorsteps now. Mr. Speaker, there are some measures many of the view can contribute to positive outcomes. There are those and there are many who feel that we must introduce such programs as civics to all schools within our primary school system, and there are many people in society of my age who believe that we must reintroduce programs of civics in the schools. There are some who believe that victims of crime must have access to emotional support services, while there are others who believe that we must institute tougher penalties and custody. Mr. Speaker, all of these are necessary in a holistic approach to crime, dealing with crime. There are also, Mr. Speaker, those who say we must increase the use of stop and search by law enforcement agencies, and not occasionally to stop and search, but to relentlessly stop and search to ensure that the culture is to make sure that persons are deterred from having firearms and other weapons in their possession. We believe that we must seek improvements to our justice system, tougher sentencing, and this is what we have sought to achieve with the introduction of this amendment bill. This amendment bill is about tougher sentencing to ensure that there is a deterrent. The use of scanners, Mr. Speaker, at our main ports of entry is necessary because we are very well aware that many of the arms which come into our country are coming in into various forms, various containers and barrels in containers, etc. dismantled or in whole are entering our country, and because of the absence of proper equipment to be able to detect, they are able to evade the law enforcement agencies. Partnering with other neighbouring territories, Mr. Speaker, for the use of radar systems to monitor our coastal waters is imperative. And some years ago, when I was Prime Minister, we received assistance from the Israeli government through Trinidad and Tobago, who installed two radar systems, one at Mullah Sheikh in VfO, and the other at Viji. I'm not too sure what's the state of those, but the intention was to be able to monitor the movement along our coastal waters. Mr. Speaker, I am particularly keen on the introduction of civics in all our primary schools. Over the years, in the absence of such classes or a posity of these classes, we have sat idly by and watched the moral fabric of our society being shredded to tatters. It is time to do something about it, Mr. Speaker, and this government has the moral and political authority to take the action now and get it done. I know, Mr. Speaker, you can recall the days when civics now renamed education for democratic citizenship was on the core curriculum in Form I and II at St. Mary's College and other educational institutions in this country. And I know, Mr. Speaker, this has in a big way shaped you into the individual you are to be. I hope this is not too much credit to you, Mr. Speaker. I think we need to expand this to all our schools at an early age. And if we can do this, we would have laid the foundation for a more civilized society. In short, Mr. Speaker, we need to focus on early interventions, but we must also adopt a zero tolerance to all forms of deviant and criminal behavior. Mr. Speaker, where there are violations to our laws, there must be quick access to our courts. Justice must be swift and custodial sentencing must give offenders the opportunities and tools to facilitate reintegration to society. Mr. Speaker, the more we provide support services to persons with convictions, the more we can reduce reoffending or recidivism. Mr. Speaker, as I have enunciated earlier, this bill is only one cog in a holistic approach that this government will implement as we seek to stem the tide of gun violence. And we, as members of this administration, stand together, red or blue, stand together in unison, in unity, together to fight the challenges ahead of us. It is in this right, Mr. Speaker, that I throw my unwavering support to this FIAM's amendment bill before us today. I want to congratulate Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister, for being bold, for being transparent and to come here strong to present this bill to demonstrate that we are prepared to take action and deal with the current situation of violence in our country. I thank you. Mr. Speaker, I want to thank members for their support, Mr. Speaker, for this amendment. This, obviously, is a very bold undertaking. I want to assure the minister, the member of Ashuazel, that the amendment for the Commission of Police being Chairman of the Board will be instituted in the bill itself. So it will be there. We will call for an amendment, Mr. Speaker, so that the Board will be chaired by the Commission of Police. Mr. Speaker, the member of Ashuazel, speaking on the composition of the Board, made a good point. How can one man be more transparent than five people? But, Mr. Speaker, we come here sometimes and we sell ourselves short and instead of politicians are their worst enemies. The minister, the member of Ashuazel stands in this parliament and says that the Cabinet with the effect may not have the, I don't use it with integrity, to choose three members to put on a board because, and we cannot do that, we should not do that, Mr. Speaker. It doesn't even have faith in a Cabinet of Ministers that are elected by the people of this country. And we must stop doing that, Mr. Speaker, we must stop. Because when we continue to do that, we always sell ourselves short. Right now, the power is in the hands of one individual and you're comfortable with it, one individual to give fire licenses. You've been told that throughout the region, I know for Saint Vincent, for sure, I know it has just changed in Trinidad for reasons which I will not see here and it has changed. But you, just to score political points, makes the point that we are doing something wrong in Saint Lucia. Mr. Speaker, the member for Miku couldn't help himself. Even in terms of speaking about firearms, he wants to juxtaposition it with the economy. But you know, I'm not going to that conversation, I'm not in the mood for that today. Today is a day when I want to celebrate and to thank God and the people of Saint Lucia for their wondrous moses, so I will not go into that debate today, Mr. Speaker. I won't go into it because when you want to compare now, the times we live in now, where everybody, everyone, every government, for the first time, all governments are feeling something that they almost have no control over. You want to say that you want to blame somebody for that or blame this government for that plight. That's even not doing anything for people. Just today, you said you would never be able to give it. We gave pensioners a one-off payment of $500. The NIC, as part of a holistic change, will give, will increase pensions, Mr. Speaker. We are increasing school support to people, to children. We gave the one laptop computer to every child. You're saying that we didn't do that for people? I mean, I won't get involved in that today. Not today. Try again. You can't, you're not going to take me down that track. Not today. Not today. Because I know you're very happy to be here because you don't come. You know what your party does if you need or comes. Not today. Not today. Not today. Not today. So we're not going there today. So today, let us bring the thing to a, let's bring the thing to a level and let's behave and don't to go there because, you know, anytime you open that door, when you open that door, you make me walk in and you make everybody else walk in. So don't do it. Today, relax. We've been very, we can have, we'll have a drink of wine downstairs on your feet and our victory. And we're going to be good. Okay. So let's, so thank you very much for, for, thank you very much for our, for their support. And Mr. Speaker, I want to tell you that based on what the member of Akashi Central says, we are going to be amending the 10 year, 10 year provision to 15 years so that we can make sure that the punishment is, because we are told that a third, you lose a third. Anytime you go, there's a custodian sentence put in you, a third is taken off immediately. So 10 years taken a free, we mean six years. And then you can, so you want to make it policy declare that we are, this government is serious about gun crimes. So everywhere there's 10 years, we're going to put 15. So when you take out a suit, the client, the person will at least serve a sufficient time for the offense. And again, I'd like to ask the GIS and the press, the GIS and the press always, let somebody take it as a public service announcement to warn the young people in Sena Lucia to warn them that this is serious, this is serious, Mr. Speaker, and in terms of the judicial process, you will know that we have a swift justice program where we are increasing the capacity of the courts in terms of dealing with criminal cases. And that is why we're going to embark on the construction of the halls of justice to ensure that we have the physical space to deal with these cases. And this is why, and I think the members, the members of the Mikus for Castries, so if we make the point that our, our history on support for the police and our fight against crime is clear. We have nothing to be ashamed of. We were the ones who built the most police stations in Sena Lucia to date. And that is a fact. And we are the ones who are going to build the division headquarters in Grozile for the police. So we're not, we're not ashamed, and nothing to be ashamed about our fight. Remember when we built the bodily correctional center, we were laughed at. We said, they told us we were being a five-star hotel. Remember that? We don't want to deal with it. And chewing the fist, because we said that prison should be a place of rehabilitation. This is why we built the bodily, and again we were told we were building a five-star hotel and we were wasting money. I remember somebody on the radio every morning as usual, blah, blah, blah, blah. As usual. And these days, the, that noise happens in the morning and midday. And then that's all the point. So a Mrs. Speaker, also our history on fighting crime is clear. How do you find, we were the ones who started the, we were the ones who employed more policemen than any other government at one time. If we employed more, more policemen, our crime, our crime, we have nothing to be ashamed of. We have, we are not defensive when it comes to our fight against crime, but we temper that with social programs. And I recall, the STEP program, the STEP program, we were criticized for the STEP program. Somebody even said, and you know, today's not a day for that. Then when we initiated the STEP program, there was an ad that said that we were allowing people to work and we give them no toilet facilities. And I'm saying it in a very nice way. That was not how it was said, Mrs. Speaker. Very indelicate, you see. You know, we are saying that we're giving, we're raising money on them people for our social programs. Remember that? When this Labour Party decided that we would have ensured that there was education, there was secondary education for every child by building the five secondary schools and ensuring that there was universal secondary education, we were told that we're mixing children from everywhere, we were told we're getting involved in affirmative action when we found it necessary to upgrade the quality of life of people of lower income, Mrs. Speaker. We were the ones who did that. So we're not shy and we can stand and defend our programs. We can defend our history on crime-fighting and social enhancement and upliftment in solution without fear or favour. Mrs. Speaker, I thank you and thank members for the contributions to the Firearms Amendment Bill. Thank you, Mrs. Speaker. Honourable members, the question is that the Firearms Amendment Bill be read a second time. And I'll put the question, as many as of that opinion say aye, as many who have a country opinion say no, I think the ayes have it, the ayes have it. An act to amend the Firearms Act, cap 14.12. Clause 2. Interpretation. Clause 2 stands part of the bill. Clause 3. Amendment of Section 2. Clause 3 stands part of the bill. Which part is that? Well, let's put it this way, I heard what the PM said, but if I call Clause 2 and nobody asked for an amendment, then we have to move on. Clause 2. Interpretation. Clause 2. Interpretation. Clause 3. We said Clause 3. Clause 3. Interpretation. 3. Clause 3. We had already done Clause 2. Amendment is Clause 5. Clause 5. Amendment is Clause 5. Okay. Clause 4. Deletion of Section 3. Clause 4 stands part of the bill. Clause 5. Clause 5 here. I'm putting it in on Clause 5. Clause 5. I need to speak of Section 2C, designation of chairperson. 2C. 2C. Yes. The minister shall designate the commission of police as chairperson of the board. We all got that proposed amendment. Yes. The minister shall designate the commissioner of police as the chairperson of the board. Mr. Chairman, I'm just wondering whether, if the legacies of the board, If the legislation just says, The commissioner shall be the chairman. Simpler. Yes. It's a simpler... Yes. Simpler we do put it and it does not confute a discretion on the minister. So we shall just have the commissioner shall be chairman of the board. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Go. Just a minute. So the commissioner of police shall be a chair. Is the commissioner. Is. Is the commissioner. Is. Okay. Rather than shall be, is the chair. Yes. Okay. The proposed amendment is the commissioner of police is the chairperson. No. Is. Is. Is. Just the same is. Pardon? Commissioner of police is the chairperson. Is the chairperson. Is. The jafter saying is. The jafter saying is. Is. Is. Is. Is the chairperson. Is. Is. Is. Is. Is. Is. Is. Is. Is. Is. Is. Is. Is. Is. Is. Is. Is. Is. Is. Is. Is. Is. Is. Is. Is. Is. Is. Is. Is. Is. Is. Is. Is. Is. Is. Is. Is. Is. 10 15 10 15 15 years 15 years that's 8 2a 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 10 years 15 years 7 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 10 years 5 years 10 to 15 years I have that only amendment? only one close 8 as amended stands part of the bill aye close 9 insertion of new section 21a it's in 3d 3 3d 3a delete it 3a delete a delete a and delete a completely and in b and after and b becomes a 3 number condition indictment to a fine there is no a just continue to a fine after on the conviction on indictment after indictment to a fine which may extend to 200,000 or life of imprisonment 200,000 to a fine which may extend to 200,000 or imprisonment imprisonment for 2 which may extend to life both both both both both the amendment is suggested on conviction on indictment to a fine put in your mind I didn't comment on it because it was something that I was welcoming but I don't see any adjustment I don't know if under the prohibited section the issue to do the paper spray are you going to do it today or is it something else? we have to come back the proposed amendment is remove a remove a and after the indictment I will just read a person who contravenes subsection 1 and is liable on conviction on indictment to a fine which may extend to 200,000 or to imprisonment for a term which may extend to life or to both close 9 stands part of the bill I close 10 amendment of section 22 4A replace to extend 4A the last sentence may extend to 10 replace 10 to 15 that's it? yes 10 as a amendment stands part of the bill I 10 years 15 15 years 15 yes close 11 amendment of section 24 close 11 chair again 10 years to 15 close 11 as a amendment stands part of the bill I 12 amendment of section 26 26 chair 2A again changing 10 to 15 close 12 as a amendment stands part of the bill I 13 amendment of section 27 2A again changing 10 to 15 close 13 as a amendment stands part of the bill I close 14 substitution of section 28 3A again 10 years to 15 close 14 as a amendment stands part of the bill I close 15 substitution of section 29 2A Mr. Speaker changing 10 to 15 2A close 15 as a amendment stands part of the bill I close 16 insertion of new sections 29A and 29B 2A again Mr. Speaker 10 to 15 it's increasing the prison you live in fine as a sin if you increase in the prison you live in fine as a sin close 16 as a amendment stands part of the bill I 29B Mr. Speaker 29B 2A again changing 10 to 15 as close 17 close 16 29B change what? 10 to 15, 2A close 16 as a amendment stands part of the bill I close 17 insertion of new section 31A that's fine yes close 17 stands part of the bill I close 18 amendment of section 39 10 to 15 stands part of the bill I close 19 amendment of section 40 Mr. Speaker close 19 again change 10 to 15 close 19 as a amendment stands part of the bill I close 20 amendment of section 47 no amendment 20 stands part of the bill I amendment of section 50 close 21 stands part of the bill I close 22 insertion of new section 50A I close 22 stands part of the bill I close 23 substitution of section 52 I close 52A Mr. Chair again 10 to 15 I close 15 what was that? 10 to 15 for which section? which one? 22 52A 52A close 5 ready to see the change ready to change I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I