 Hi, welcome to Seymour's World on Think Tech Hawaii. A couple of weeks ago, we had probably one of the most interesting shows that Seymour's World has had in four, four-and-a-half years. And we had Paige Davis on the show. And she talked about her journey, her journey through her cancer, how she went through it, what enabled her to have a better, better lifestyle during that period of time. And something hit me. We all know that family, friends are very, very supportive. But she had somebody else. She had a man named Flint Sparks, who is a Zen teacher, a psychologist. He's probably one of the most mentoring persons I have met. And I am so lucky that this man has moved from Austin, Texas to Molokai, very recently, and he is here to join us today. So we're going to talk to Flint about meditation, about life, about journeys, about love, about breaking barriers, all these things that I hope we can get in this one session, if not we'll do another one. So may I introduce you to Flint? Flint, welcome to Seymour. Thank you for having me on the show. This is wonderful and great to follow Paige. Well, what a pleasure, not just to meet you, because I know how much of an influence you are on Paige's journey, but also because you're influencing me so much on my journey of life. And I think it's critical that we as individuals understand that support is so important. It's essential. So tell us a little bit about what you do. Well, I have been, as you mentioned earlier, in my sort of former life as it were, a psychologist and a psychotherapist for nearly 40 years. And during that time I had a specialty in which I worked a lot with people who had severe medical illnesses, especially cancer, hence my relationship with Paige. And over those years I also began to, because of the requests of those people who were ill, questions of their deepest soul, I wanted to respond to them not in a religious way, but to those spiritual levels. And so I began to train in Buddhism and meditation so that I could offer something deeper. So now I lead retreats, teach, write, and do things like this. Coming on to Seymour's world for me is an honor. It's an honor to have you here because I think it's so important that we have shared so much. Just in a few minutes before, when I first met you, we share so much of the same value systems and the value of appreciating life the way it is and making sure that you can pass that on to others has become a key motivator in my life. And you said that's exactly the way you think too. Absolutely. Because I've worked as a psychotherapist and if you look at a lot of the research on what predicts happiness and well-being for adults, one of the most robust predictors from research is secure attachment for the infant. Someone that's there to love them, to be with them, to care for them. At the end of life, my other big work of my life, I hear people saying, you know, at the end, nothing really matters that much except, was I loved and did I love well? Well, if love is the most important thing in the beginning and it's the most important thing at the end, it seems like that might be something to focus on for the entirety of life. How do we care for each other? How do we allow care from each other? How do we connect in a way that humans really require for health and well-being and happiness? I think you've answered a big question. What is the most important part of your life and if the word is love, to be loved and to also give love, I think that, of course, love has many, many pieces. But that in itself is such a great legacy for all of us to live by. Can you be loved by all the people that you've affected and can people love you for everything that you have done in your life? Those are big, broad things. But what we know is that if you're operating from your sort of deepest, truest self, then probably what's going to come forward is something that has some integrity and some truth and some clarity and some kindness and some compassion. Those qualities come forward naturally when our reactivity and our fear relaxes. I think you're right. I think one of the other things that I wanted to discuss with you is the ability to show gratitude. Those of you out there who have seen my show over the years know that gratitude is one of my most important pieces in my life, especially now, because I mentioned to you I have cancer and I'm living with it. And believe it or not, I'm enjoying life more today than I did two years ago when I was diagnosed with cancer. I really didn't allow the negativity to come into my life. So I have as full a life as possible for 18 hours a day and I do what I want to do. That word, gratitude. Tell me what that means to you. Well, I think the capacity to view life through a lens of what's possible, what's available, what's present rather than what's missing, what you hoped would be. In those ways, you become smaller, more self-contained, more self-centered. Is it what I want? Is it all about me? But if you open to what's available, you find that life is remarkable. And there are many, many gifts that are being given to us all the time. Even if they're a gift that you wouldn't suspect, like your cancer, would make a difference. Here's something that people don't believe. I worked for, like I said, 35 years with people with cancer, mostly quite severe. And people will say, so what's the main thing you hear? And they expect me to speak about fear, difficulties. I say, we won't believe me. They say, come on, what is it? I said, over and over, I hear some version of this. Cancer is a terrible thing. I wish I didn't have it. I wouldn't want it on anyone. And it's probably the best thing that's ever happened to me. Because it makes you appreciate life more? Some version of, but is this open to me? It turned me. It woke me up. It did something so that a lot of the smaller ways that I was caught or contracted began to fall away. You're right. Paige talked about that in her book. Yeah. She was very, very emphatic, actually, about the idea that the cancer actually helped her in understanding her own life, what her journey was. Yeah. I never thought about it that way. We call it in Zen, since I'm a Zen priest and teacher, that spirituality is about the great matter of birth and death. This amazing reality of existential existence. And when we have a diagnosis in our world, that's the kind of wake-up call that's the like, oh, okay, I really have to pay attention to this. Not, will I get the next job? Will I get a better car? Will I have a better husband or wife? Those things may come and go, and they do come and go. Everything's impermanent. Right. But what doesn't come and go amongst all the things that change? And that's that heartfelt sense of gratitude of being alive and appreciating your aliveness. Isn't it funny that it takes something as strong as maybe getting hit by a car or a cancer or something that makes you realize, am I ever lucky to be alive today? And really, that's the spiritual question. What wakes us up to saying, oh, I'm going to go beyond what it means just to develop myself as a material, functional human being. How can I open to that greater space of spirit and of the ineffable that which is sort of inconceivable? And that place, we open to awe, and then we can be the recipients of grace. I think it's inspiring for all of us to sit here and listen to you. I feel like I'm a student in a classroom. Well, I am, because for me, I try to do what you do in my way. You know, I do it in my foundation with my Make Him Smile program for the kids in the hospital. I do it with the foster kids. I do it with Holocaust teaching. It's the gratitude that I feel and I get from the kids. I read you a letter before from the kid in school who just said that I made a difference to them, you know, that in itself. And when I get those, I feel so satisfied. Me too. It's an amazing, and rather than feeling like an ego nourishment, it's actually more humility. It's like, if I'm able to do that, then I want to offer more. See, that's the thing. It cultivates your generosity. You want to offer more. You want to grab more. So the circle gets bigger. And it's more, you become more humble in the face of it, not more egotistical. That makes you open to more gratitude. And so humility, generosity, and gratitude begin to flow together rather than egotistical kind of separation or small selfhood that you do. It's interesting that you say that because I, as you know, I'm very busy with all the stuff that I do. And it all comes and stems from the need of gratitude. Yes. The need to, I feel like I get more out of it when I'm in the hospital playing for the kids. For instance, with our musicians, I get more out of it than the kids do. I know they get a lot out of it. Of course. But you're fed by it, aren't you? But man, do I get something when I see a parent putting their arm around the child and there's tears coming down their arms because they see their kids smiling again. Nothing beats that. And that smile may be the best thing. That's right. One of my teachers would say, most of us, if we get what we want, or we feel like we're satisfied, then we think, then I'll be happy. This is no. Open yourself to gratitude and then see what's around you. Start with gratitude. Gratitude doesn't come just from being happy. Gratitude is the source of happiness. Absolutely. It's the other way around. Yeah, yeah. And you need to hear that. And I hope all of you out there hear that because it's important to realize that when we talk to somebody like Flint who has been around for a long time in this business and he understands what the barriers of love are all about. And I want to touch upon that because we only have a few minutes before our first break. But if you could explain a little bit about your theories on barriers of love. Well, I think we mentioned earlier someone had asked me one time, you've been a therapist for a long time, been as in priest. What is it that you really do? And I heard myself say, well, I think I help soften or remove the barriers to love. And all that really means to me is help people relax the kind of tension or tightness that sometimes are conditioning or past our stresses. If those things can soften, then we have an open hand that we can offer. And it's an open hand in which we can receive. And that's really the practical thing that I'm talking about. Can we just offer ourselves to each other? And can we receive each other? How do you get away from the practical side of it though? The stresses that people have in their lives creates barriers from love or for love. How do you remove that? How are you able to get people back on track again? Well, that's sometimes why I say it's about softening the barriers instead of removing them. Right. It's through presence. If you can actually connect with someone, even in their busy, most stressful time, and you do this in your consulting, you do it in your teaching, if you can get their attention, so suddenly they're with you, that all that other begins to soften, it begins to go into the background. I find too many people I know have forgotten how to do that, Flint. They really have. I mean, I see couples and friends who have been married for years and years and years, and they've lost it. They've lost that ability to connect to each other. And it's such a shame. I mean, my wife and I were sitting on the deck, and I told you where we live, and we're sitting on the deck enjoying the sunset and just feeling how good it is to be alive, of feeling that connection that's there sitting in that spot of earth. And so grateful that you could. Absolutely. When I was about to do my TED Talk, somebody said, what do you want the result to be? I said, at the end, when I stop, what I want people to do is turn this way instead of to their phone. If they do that, then I've made my point. I think you're right. I find eliminating barriers, and I love that word, eliminating barriers, and that could be in business and personal lives and financial structures and love, all that stuff. You eliminate those barriers, and all of a sudden life becomes much easier. That's right. It's infused with an energy and a nourishment that's always there, but we don't notice it because we get so caught up. Yeah, I agree. And that is really what we wake up to. It's amazing. Flint, we have to take a short break, and then I want to talk about meditation, because people look at me and they say, Seymour, don't tell us you meditate. You don't have the personality for meditating. You're too busy. Yeah, I'm too busy. I wake up at four in the morning, and I'm going at 150 miles an hour, but yet I do meditate, and I want people to understand what the term really means, because too many of us think of it looking at somebody in the corner. So we'll be back in a minute. We'll meditate during the break. Let's do it. We've got 60 seconds to do it. I'm Seymour Kazimurski on The Seymour's World with Flint Sparks, our wonderful, wonderful guest, a Zen teacher, a psychologist, and I think he's going to be one of my very best friends. Be back in a minute. Oh, I'm Yukari Kunisue. I'm your host of New Japanese Language Show on Think Tech, Hawaii, called Konnichiwa, Hawaii, broadcasting live every other Monday at 2 p.m. Please join us, where we discuss important and useful information for the Japanese language community in Hawaii. The show will be all in Japanese. Hope you can join us every other Monday at 2 p.m. Aloha. Aloha, I'm Jane Farrell, founder of Think Tech, Hawaii. And I'm Andrea Gabrielli, the host for Young Talent's Making Way. Wait a minute. This is not a new episode, is it, Jay? No, it's not a new episode. You know, that show is over, Andrea. So what are you going to do now? Why don't we have a summer edition of Young Talent's Making Way, where we focus more on education as a mean for our young talents to max out, becomes role models, and achieve their dreams. What a great idea. So when do you want to begin, Andrea? July the 3rd, 2018, Tuesday at 11 a.m. Young Talent's Making Way summer edition. Stay tuned. Hi, welcome back to Seymour's World on Think Tech, Hawaii. If you listened to the first half of this show, you were probably just as mesmerized as I am by this young man, Flint Spark, sitting next to me. What an amazing individual, somebody who can basically explain life to you, explain love to you, explain how we should lead a better life, how we can make a difference. And by the way, after the show, I'm going to be filming my commentary called How to Make a Difference. So Flint, we are back together again. And the first half of the show went too quick because we only answered one of the five questions that I had for you. So I don't think we're going to be able to do them all. But one thing we ended off with was meditation. Yes. Definition of meditation, please. I think the essence of meditation, or aside from any different form of meditation, because there are many, is when you stop manipulating your experience in any way whatsoever. Well, that's an counter-intuitive definition because many people think, oh, I'm going to meditate, so now I'm going to change what I'm doing. But meditation really is in some way stopping. If we can be just grounded, sit here, but open and aware, not go inside or pull away, and be very deeply present with ourselves and each other, then some people think of meditation as like fighting, like stopping your thinking or trying to slow. And if you're- Or emptying your mind. Yeah, and if you do that, you know, you're going to be at war with your mind forever because it doesn't stop. But there is a primary awareness that you can rest in. It's like the sky outside when you're sitting on your deck. We were going to talk about that in a second. I know. So the clouds go through the sky. The sky doesn't get confused in things, the clouds, what's going through it. But we get confused with the contents of our awareness. We get- We hook onto the fear. We hook onto the worry, the planning, instead of resting in that space of awareness. And you can actually learn to remember to rest in the space in which everything is bubbling around instead of getting caught in what's bubbling. The bubbling can continue sometimes. Sometimes it slows down. Well, for me, meditation, as I said to you before the show, I go into the hot tub three days a week, at six o'clock in the morning, and I'm there for half an hour, and you're right. I allow the bubbles to surround me. It's allowing. I allow the clouds to pass over me. I allow the trees and the birds to do their thing. And I find myself, after that half hour, so much more relaxed. I'm calling it meditating, and it may not be the essence of what meditating is all about. No, you're talking about it. But to me, that's what it is, the ability- Is the deed allowing. Right. And I think it has to be done on a fairly regular basis so that people understand it's something that you can cultivate over a period of time. And I've been doing it for years, and I find that I miss it. If I'm out of town, for instance, and I don't have that half an hour to just... You could call it vegetate. I don't care what you want to call it. I'm calling it meditating. Of course. The ability to allow your mind to just totally relax, to totally forget about all of your ills and everything that's going on. You can't stop it from thinking. There's no such thing. And even if you don't forget at all, you remember, over time, because you do it a lot, that there is a space of clarity and simplicity that's always there, even if you're not touching it, but you remember it, and that you don't ever lose that, even though you might not be able to reach it every single time. But over time, you practice, practice, practice, and you don't just cultivate a capacity, which you do. It also begins to actually change your physiology and your neurology in a way that things are more in alignment, more in balance, and are much more healthy. It's so strange. And to all of you out there who have sent me all these notes, oh, he's going to teach you how to meditate on the show. Well, he's not teaching me how to meditate on the show. He's validating that what I'm doing in the hot tub, what I'm doing in those moments, are giving me a meditative state, a state in which my mind is able to totally, totally relax and allow, as you said, physiology. It allows your mind and your body to leave that state half an hour in a much better state than it went into. Yeah, it's a portal. It's an opening, and you know what your opening is. If we're just vegetating and hanging out, that's not meditation, that's resting. Correct, correct. This has an attentive quality to it, a quality of presence to it. There's some energy, but it's not an energy that's grasping at anything. Correct. And that's what's really difficult for folks because we're so used to doing something for an instrumental gain. Right. And this is doing something without that and resting in the gratitude of the present moment and seeing what comes. You know, one of the issues are that we as a society want definition, and you don't want to define meditation as a certain way of thinking, a certain way of doing. It is an individual issue. It's an issue of how to do it. And again, if you watched my commentary last week about happiness and I told you to write things down about one of the first two or three or four things that you could do to be happier, one of those things that I had so many people talk about was meditating. And I had not suggested it. I had not suggested it to you. It came up on its own. It came up on its own. I probably of the 400 or 500 people that commented, probably at least 100 of them said, I wish I could meditate, meaning they know that their body and their mind needs this. They need to be able to totally feel it. That longing is something about, for most of us in this culture, a longing to rest, to be more quiet, to be more peaceful. But people don't really understand what it might mean. How would one do that to actually rest? Because it isn't just hanging out at the beach. It's something about a deeper resting. Oh, man, you are so on track. And to those of you who I've been speaking to this about for the last three or four years about how important it is to get the... You don't have to call it meditating if you don't want to, but I call it meditating. If you could do that, if you could get your mind and your body into a state, like you're discussing right now, it is not that difficult. It's just a matter of practice, slowly, even for five minutes, 10 minutes, and then you build up to it until you feel comfortable. And here's the warning label. You know, on the package is always a warning label. As you quiet your mind and your body, as you sit still or open to everything, guess what's going to show up? Everything. And so sometimes in the beginning people will say, well, actually I'm more disturbed because now all these things are floating up, that I kept at bay by being busy. So there are ways in which more things become available to you. That's the good news because now you can attend to them and you can take better care of yourself. But at first, if you think it's like taking a pill that's going to wipe everything out, that's a naive view of meditation. You're right. It's going to open you to everything so that you can meet everything more fully. And over time, that's going to transform your life, not just give you symptom relief from stress. And that's a big difference. Very, very big difference. You're preaching to the choir here. I'm a real believer in the ability to allow your mind and your body to focus on what's most important at a period of time. Not everything. You can't do everything at one time. You have to be able to sift through some of the funnel, stuff that you put in the funnel and decide, this is what I want to work on. This is what I want my life's purpose to be. And as we mature, notice I didn't say get older, as we mature and also as we have challenges, which we spoke about, these are things that refine our view. We realize, oh, I don't have an infinite amount of time. Maybe I'm not going to achieve every single thing I thought I would. But as those things fall away, they can be deep disappointments or they can be openings and refreshment for something that you didn't even expect would happen. You're right. You're right. And those new things that happen to you, whether they be love, whether they be work opportunities, no matter what it is, can restart your life. It can make you feel much younger than you were before. Exactly. And totally unexpected. It's not, it wasn't in your plan. It wasn't in my early plan to move to a strange little island in the middle of the wine archipelago. Oh, when we hadn't even talked about that, I wanted to talk about it. But I do want to bring up something. Sure. I came up with a saying, and I have it here. It says, focus on what you have, not what you don't have. Exactly. Now that phrase by itself, how do we get people to do that? How do you focus on what you have and not wish I had this wish I could, you know, the wishing well is endless, right? Because you always want more. Yeah. How do you focus on what you have, not what you don't have? Well, that's part of what meditation is about. Because when you stop and you're not doing anything, all that's there is what you have. You're not going to be able to stop people from thinking about what they don't have. That's like human brains do that. But it's also a choice issue as well. But do you put your energy into it and focus on it, or do you provide an antidote that is right next to it, rather than fighting the longing to say, okay, let's right next to it, let's appreciate what we have, let's use gratitude as a balancer. And what happens over time is that there's a generosity of spirit, there's an openness of heart, there's a quieting of your mind that begins to emerge when you put them together. So you're not fighting the acquisition mode. You're just offering an antidote right next to it, which begins to change the balance. It's so interesting because that leads into my last topic that we only have time for and that's listening. How important is listening? How many people over talk? And I happen to be very guilty of it. My wife, Sue, who is watching this show right now can probably tell you how many times she said, you're over talking because my mind is going faster than my listening mode. And listening is the key. So I came up with something on listening that is, and I'm going to read it to you, how to listen. It says, truly listening requires a person to fully disconnect himself from all other preoccupations and thoughts and make himself available to the other. You need to focus better. You need to shut out external visual stimuli and concentrate. When we listen and allow the words we hear to penetrate us, we make space for the other person. Right, and that space and that quality and that discipline that you're talking about, I would encapsulate in the word presence because if I can allow other things to not take such forefront in my attention, that attention opens. And I can really look in your eyes, feel your body here, be with you, and be present with you. You're going to feel my presence. You're going to feel my attention. I do it now. Yes, absolutely. And we listen to each other. We see each other. We feel each other. And that's the essence of really what I hope people are removing barriers to, because that's really the essence of care. I think once you remove the barriers, something pops in. It's natural attitude. Yes. Compassion. Yes. Presence. All of these issues become part of people's lives and it's something that I've been trying to struggle with myself and I think I'm getting there at my tender age. I'm starting to understand that that's a lifelong thing. I know. And it makes me happier. Absolutely makes me happy. There are four qualities, without going into a Buddhist stuff, but there are four qualities that are talked about in the way of maturing into one's spiritual practice. And they are essential qualities that are there that get opened. And they are compassion, the ability to meet suffering and not turn away, loving kindness, which is unconditional friendliness, equanimity, a peacefulness, and then the last is sympathetic joy, the happiness that comes from when the other person's happy. And those four qualities of compassion, loving kindness, equanimity, and sympathetic joy are what are in your definition. You are right. They're all there. You're right. I have to say this, and I hate to say it, Flint, but we're at the end of our show. Oh, no. Yes. Believe it or not. We're having too much fun. Well, actually, we only did one. So we have five more topics to do and I'm hoping we can continue this because it has been, for me, a pleasure and education. And I just think for our audience in general, if they watch the show and they just glean a little bit of it, they will have a better life. Well, maybe we'll have some more time together. I'm only an island away. Oh, thank you. Thank you. And you are coming to our Hanukkah party this year, right? We'll see about that. I'm putting you on air that you're coming to our party. Thank you so much. Thank you, Seymour. Love to have you. It's a pleasure. Absolutely love to have you. For all of you out there, I will be back on August the 24th. I will not be here on August the 9th, I believe, but I will be back on August 24th with a guest and a new commentary as well. So today, I think I will probably get hundreds of comments as well because Flint is an amazing, amazing individual and a man who I look up to is my mentor. So Aloha from Seymour's World on Think Tech Hawaii. See you next month.