 Welcome to Breeder's Syndicate 2.0, where we explore the history of a clandestine scene. Researching everything from cannabis strain history, old smuggling tales from the first person perspective, to breeding science and news on current subculture. I'm your host, Matthew, and I'll occasionally be joined by my homey not so dog, Breeder and Grower from Mendocino, to speak on these subjects and sometimes interview other participants. Our goal is to document this history before it's written by corporations and others who just weren't there. Let's start writing some wrongs. Welcome to the Underground. Can you kind of enlighten us a little bit on Mark Emery, both of you? Just give us a quick take from a Canadian perspective on Mark Emery, because we don't have a really clear one, at least from my era and point of view in the United States. Well, like, one thing I'm not sure about was Mark Emery involved in cannabis before like the Hemp Nation Constitutional Challenge? No, no. Well, the Constitutional Challenge, he started Hemp BC by that time, but you have to remember Mark's from this town, from my town, right? Yeah, he had a bookstore here called City Lights. He scammed those people also when it came to selling it. But Mark, I call him the Dark Enemy for a reason. I think it's very suiting it, ironically matches his name, but he is somebody that, you know, in his own words, said he was against legalization of cannabis due to the amount of money that he was making from selling seeds illegally. Yeah. He proved this when after Hemp Nation was busted for the second time, well, first time it was Great Canadian Emporium, second time it was Hemp Nation, the Chris was not allowed to sell paraphernalia after that. So we decide or he decided that he reached out to Mark who had Hemp BC and said, hey, listen, do you want to buy all the inventory from Hemp Nation? Because we need to raise the money for the Constitutional Challenge. And he agreed. He's like, yes, send me everything. And then it was like pulling teeth to get paid from him. And by the very end of it, I mean, it wasn't a shitload of money. You know, maybe it was only 10, 20 grand or something like that in inventory. But when you're fighting the government to legalize cannabis, every penny counts. Sure. And Chris kept getting the, you know, oh, talk to my accountant, talk to my accountant. At this time, it was in around this time, friends of mine through Red from Legends, a mutual friend worked for Mark, basically almost as like manager area of sales for his direct seeds. Yeah. And he was doing something like 20, 40, $60,000 a week in cannabis sales and seed sales. Wow. And when it was said and done with Hemp Nation, Chris claimed bankruptcy with Mark Emory still owing him money. And it was only maybe a thousand or $2,000 at the end of it. But it just showed what the term douchebag and we have about my use of the word douchebag. I say, I have to start saving it for like the appropriate people and dark enemy is, I feel the biggest douchebag in our industry. He, you know, claims that he donated all this money and stuff like that, but he didn't. He, he would, you know, he did a interview and I think it was on like CBC or something. And Jody, Jody and him worked together for less than a year, maybe, and he's sitting there having her like clip his toenails on camera while he's being interviewed. And I think he's not mistaken. He got up and he was butt naked or something like that. And I was just like, what kind of fucking douchebag? Again, the word douchebag. Yeah. Let's or allows his girlfriend who was barely out of being a teenager at the time. Yeah. Got his fucking toenails on national TV. I mean, yes, my girlfriend of my, my wife, sure, she would probably if I asked her to. Yeah. Fucking lifetime to do it on camera to show. There was a big thing that came out like he, he was just very inappropriate with. Well, I can't say I don't know of any charges that were laid. I mean, there should have been. I do know he did run from political office here in London and he was dating somebody that we knew he was dating. This guy's ex-wife and this guy had, I think, two kids, two boys. And Mark, his speeches kept saying, I'm a family man. I'm all about family. You know, here's my wife and my kids. And this guy was like, dude, you can't call my kids your kids. Like, and it ended up that Mark, I believe was giving a speech or something down at one of the parks. And he said that and this guy walked out of the crowd walked up and punched him. Hallelujah. But like basically punched Mark in the fucking head and said, stop fucking claiming my kids as Jews because, you know, he's, he was, he's a show voter. And the thing is, is he has, he's done certain things. He used to do something here. He fought for, for stores to be opened on Sunday before when it was illegal. Yeah. Kudos for that. He paid, he had some of his staff or something follow minute. The guy is doing the parking police, whatever, and walking around with nickels or quarters. And if he saw an expired meter, he'd drop a quarter of a nickel in it. Kudos for that. But, you know, Mark, Mark is like the Donald Trump of the fucking canvas industry. Like he talks to talk, but he burns so many fucking bridges. Yeah. The thing is, I got into yelling matches on, on the phone. And because he was like, why the fuck you bashing me? I kicked him out of my store when he came into town. He can go to high times. A guy from my competition. To his horn as much as he wants. But I know him. And furthermore, when I opened Organic Traveler, I took over all of Hemp Nations gear, everything down from the display cases, including their computers. So on his computers, I had access to all the files and all the outstanding debts that Mark owed. So I was bad-melting him and trying to be loud enough that he would hear me. Yeah. And obviously he did because he called me up one day on speakerphone with other people in the background. And trying to bitch me, like trying to make a scene. Yeah. Mark, I got the fucking computers here. I can tell you what date you made payments and what date and how much you owed at the very end. Tell me, he's like, Pete, it was only fucking thousand bucks, a couple thousand bucks. I don't give a fuck. You still owe it. Dollars, man. We were trying to fucking change the laws. Chris went to fucking jail for this. Sarah went to jail for this. This guy's out there making tens, if not hundreds of thousands of dollars a month. Yeah. He's going to strip some fucking guy that's trying to fight the marijuana laws. So that he can do that. And this comes through word of mouth. But the people that tell me this kind of thing, I give 10 times, a thousand times more credit than I give Mark. Yeah. And they said, you know, he'll admit that off record, obviously, that why would he want to legalize cannabis when he makes so much money off the fact that it is illegal. And especially in the States, he wasn't charged in Canada. He was charged in the States. Yeah. Right? Like fuck, buddy. Like move to the States. I mean, I'm all for spreading the seed everywhere. We don't want him. Use that fucking, you know, and what got me also was back then I was actually breeding. I'll do air quotes because it's not, I was just breeding for seed to get the seed out there. And again, we're going back to the mid 90s kind of thing. Yeah. We would send Mark seeds. And this one he was first started his seed business. And we would tell him or whatever it was a buck of seed or a couple bucks of seed or something like that. And we'd be honest, like, listen, like I told you in the last interview, I would buy seeds from a sensei or greenhouse or something. And then do a breeding just using those genetics and saying, Hey, listen, this is this is our Northern Lights. We bought it. It's a Northern Lights five. We bought the seed. We made our own seed. We're selling it, right? Yeah. Or we would say, well, we like to, we wanted to blend it. So we did like a Northern Lights chemo, which was something that we really liked. And we would sell Mark the seeds and he would change the names or remove certain things. Like he would just call the Northern Lights chemo, just chemo, right? Yeah. Or just Northern Lights because of itself better. Right? Yeah. And he, when it came to, he was selling. And, you know, it didn't happen. He wasn't, he wasn't selling it as, you know, sensei seeds, Northern Lights. He was just saying, Hey, this is pure Northern Lights, but it wasn't pure. It was fucking bred by me or Hemp Nation crew and we're in a Hemp Nation garden or my garden. And we were just doing it to spread the Johnny Apple seed. We wanted to sell the seeds, you know, we were selling, I think it was 10 seeds in a box of something 250 a seed to get it open. The thing, right? So, you know, people that, again, I even said in the last interview, people that focus on the money in this industry are in the industry, not the movement. And people that claim to be in the movement like Mark does, you know, and he, he was hiding behind Jody till the very end. Right? Like I don't know what the fuck is wrong with that. And I'm not going to get in any personal shit because there's some shit he's got friends of mine personally. Yeah. I mean, if you Google Mark Emery and you look for stuff, it's like, there's stuff out there. It's like, when he got out West, I think it got worse, you know, like it's all about ego. Me and my friends, when we were out in Vancouver, we wouldn't step foot in the shop. Like on that strip, like, like we wouldn't, like we didn't even want to go into his establishment. Like that's how much we disliked it. We just knew like he was a piece of shit. Like fuck him. Again, it's about self promotion with him. It's nothing to do with the movement. He's not one of us with anything, but fucking, you know, he went to, I think it was Thailand before he went out West, you know, or maybe it was during because he went out there and like dropped a bunch of money on some locals and said, Hey, I just bought this property. He has fucking X amount of dollars. I want to fucking house when I come back. You know, when he came back, he went back there, the land was just overgrown, nothing built and his money was gone. Awesome. So I would honestly wish that there wasn't so many, you know, he comes back to this town and he thinks he's fucking, he ran for political office last year. Yeah. And it was hilarious because every time I drove by him, I would call him a fucking douchebag. Yeah. Don't listen. You're not liked around here. Get the fuck out. I have very little votes and the funny thing is, is I was either driving my Volkswagen bus and my Volkswagen Karma gear on my truck or my Mini Cooper or my Jeep. I was always driving something different. So he's probably thought the whole fucking, I mean, I hope other people joined me, but I was fucking yelling at him left, right and center because he doesn't fucking live here while he might live here now. I don't even know. I think he moved back here for a while. I can't believe he would go back. Honestly. Like I like when I lived there, I didn't know one person that had anything to say but negative. But he didn't choose to leave London, right? He had to leave. He ended up, he ended up fucking, he started, he ended up fucking a fireman's wife. And I thought for, for somebody that thought he was fairly high up in the fire department. I don't know if he was a chief or, or something like that, but rumor has it. Yeah. And they walked into his fucking bookstore and said there's a lot of paper in here. It's probably place and probably go up pretty quickly. And sometimes we hit red lights or something along that line was said kind of thing, right? And again, could have been folklore. It could have been anything, but because, you know, I knew what the type of person I know the type of person he is, for sure, for sure to see that. So, you know, it sucks to see people like that get all the attention and it gives us a bad name. Yeah. People out there, especially as a Canadian, like to hear Prince of Pot, what the fuck, like, come on. Like that was, especially like in BC, he kept going in BC. It's like, fuck this guy. Well, let's, let's get to this. So the one thing that was resounding, the resounding criticism from the last episode was that there were one or two really loud BC growers that felt that, that they were misrepresented, very extreme. Can you, can you explain it, Sean, better than me? I, I before, like when, before we did the first one, before we even recorded the first one in our little homie chat, I said, there's going to be some BC people pissed off. Yeah. And I have, I have a specific question in mind, but I didn't even ask that question. And they still got upset, but I actually went back and listened and I know what he, what the one guy at least was upset about and, and it was that Pete said it all started here. I was like, yup. And then there was a comment about, of course, there's, there's good growers in BC. They're all from Ontario. Yeah. But he was like this. You know, whatever. Well, but I, you and I have a very specific viewpoint, right? Yeah. But. Hey Doc, not so. I'm back. Where I come from, right? Like I grew up in London. So I grew up around like, I, like there is like commercial, what my friends called biker weed, right? Which was just the commercial, right? Yeah. But once, once you found like that, like that downtown family, which was not hard to find, you know, you, you got great pot, right? Yeah. Whether you were getting it from, well, whatever, I'm not going to name, but like, so me and my friends, like, you know, we went on tour, right? We were like, fuck this, we're going on dead tour. And we just wanted to like, we wanted to see the shows because we, we were heads, but we also wanted to see fucking pot, you know, that was like the two were just as equal. So we went down, we did tour for a while. That led us to the west coast of the US and we, we, we saw that area and like, we were kind of like blown away, like number one, the cost, we could not fucking believe people were paying what they were paying. Like that was just mind blowing, right? Because it was comparable to back home to us. And then when we got to the west coast, it's like same thing, but like the only, like the only thing about the west coast is we saw new stuff that like names we'd never heard of. And obviously there was people breeding there, right? Because it was all this weird new shit. It was the first time I saw like white weed, right? Like it looked like mold in somebody's hand, but they're like, no, that's, you know, that's fucking, you know, resin. And then, you know, I lived in Arcada for a while, right? So I lived in Arcada for a good stretch and like, I was living in Arcada for a while. So I kind of saw and experienced what was going on in that area. And it was really good weed, like back home though, you know, like for me, it was like what we had back home. And then I got back home and like, I went into Pete shop to like chat him up because back home, there's not too many people that you could talk about that stuff and they understand what you're talking about. And at the same time, what it was taking me out to Vancouver with them, right? And Pete's response was like, you were just like disappointed, super disappointed. And you were like, everybody goes out West and they think the weed is so much better there. And it's not. It's not, you know. And I think, and like I said, I stand by the, what I said before about all the good growers. Well, I would say all, but I can't say all, right? Because we don't know. I'm going to say a large percentage. And I'll give you a few examples because a large percentage. I got hired after a state in Switzerland by one of the larger brokers in the Vancouver area. And like red, he was named after a different color. Let's just say blue. And I think he's Ontario too, honestly. But so they, they dropped me into this middle of buttfucked nowhere between Jasper and Kamloops along, I think it's highway five. And, you know, built a huge greenhouse in the middle of the bush off grid. I lived in a little log cabin off grid. They already had a 300, 300 bales of pro mix hiked into a bush and big huge outdoor beds. And I thought, fucking right, man, I'm in the middle of fucking nowhere. I'm finally going to meet some of these, you know, grass root VC growers that I fucking heard about, read about. Didn't meet fucking one person from BC. Every single person I met was from Ontario or I'd say 80% from Ontario and the rest were kind of mixed. So when you go out to Vancouver and the island and stuff like that, you know, yeah, ask, ask anybody, where are you from? I'm from BC. I was like, really? Where were you born? What part? I was born in Etobicoke. What the fuck is that? Very rare. Six months ago. Well, no, you're not from fucking BC. In the 90s, it was very rare. Like most people that are from BC were born in the fucking 90s, you know, like it just wasn't populated. It wasn't populated. The population was tiny. And like what I was told actually, I'm not sure if it's totally true, but I think it's believable was like in the 80s, they were offering offering stimulus sort of situations for people to move to BC because it was so underpopulated. And they were even like doing that to like, you know, lower income people, like we'll give you money and we'll give you a free trip to go to, you know, the fucking Vancouver area. Like it just wasn't populated. Right. So by the 90s, the great majority was not from there. It just that's it's true. The cannabis moved out there again, like why everybody moved out there. They think, well, you know, it's beautiful. It's more climatized and so on, all the power to him for sure, you know, but again, the genetics and the techniques and the information in their heads. It's come from Ontario. I mean, there's a breeder out on the island. He thinks he's a pretty great gardener. I think he's okay, you know, besides zero. But he's not from fucking BC, you know, he's from from this fucking town, you know, like recently, dark enemies from here, Chris Clay, Chris Clay's from here, you know, I don't know about, you know, some of the other growers. Sure. There's phenomenal growers everywhere. BC definitely has. But we're seeing a lot of podcasts now, right? Like this, where a lot of people are speaking out and like C Ray, not from BC. Scabby, not from BC. Jay, not from BC. Like every single person that that has spoken out about BC is not from BC. Right. Right. I don't think we've heard one most moved out to BC. I mean, I got I got bit by the bug also, like everybody and just some just some beautiful fucking people out there. And it is with a lot stronger there because the laws were a lot more forgiving there. It is. But, you know, when when push comes a shove, yes, the people like, OK, where are you from? If they say BC, that's when they're born. But because, you know, it's not like the I'm surprised they got fucking maternity wards in fucking Vancouver. Because nobody's from fucking Vancouver. But there's some, there's some, right? Like, like less than an hour. I was off the plane. We were smoking Texas at a time warp. Yeah. And it's like, there was a whole bunch of Americans there, like, like our whole like deadhead crew that was in Vancouver. Like we were strong supporters of the island organic outdoor. Yeah. No, like that was good shit. It was good shit. That'd be a good story for red, too. If you ever want to. We did. We did talk. But there's a lot of cool people in BC. There's a lot of good growers in BC. And if somebody's like at the fact that like BC is in everything, maybe you're not growing great weed. If you're that insecure, you know, I mean, I can throw like obviously like I Mendo Mendo has some similarities. And I'm going to because like as like, you know, you start talking about like, oh, well, where were you born? You know, and I mean, I'm a transplant out here. Now granted, I ended up getting here a lot earlier. You know, like, then most people and I've lived out here a long time, but I'm not from here. Right. And, you know, when you look at the map of Canada, almost all Canadians are from where you guys are. Yeah. Again, the large population Southwest in Ontario. And like I was saying before in the last podcast where because of how we're situated at the Great Lakes and Glacier Runoff, we have some of the best soil in Canada. I mean, people don't probably realize this in Canada. It is a huge place, but like, mostly look at it. Like, I think it's like 80 90% of the people in Canada live within 100 kilometres of the border or something like that. Even, even that I was, I was kind of like, well, because like Matt thought when we said London, we're talking about B.C. like his geography is like way out. But like, I was trying to explain to like my American friends that like we can't just say Ontario. We can't just say B.C. right. I was just saying even the coastal area, you have all these independent islands that are like a place in themselves. Then you have Vancouver, then you have like the Vancouver Island, which could be split up in sections. Then you have the Kootenays, which is like fucking 12 hours down the road that way. Like, it's just totally different places. And when you say B.C. like, I'm sure the Kootes had much better quality because it was smaller. And the Vancouver area and the coastal area was so big, it was so commercial that it was just flooded with commercial. Yeah. It was so fucking flooded with commercial. It was hard to find good weed because there was so much commercial to get rid of. It was like nobody had time to even think about quality. You know, I think it's because a lot of the organized growers, organized crime growers, that's where they were going to be around. But when you get into like the Kootenays, Nelson area, when you get into the kind family mentality, that still grow for the love of the plant. So, again, Eric quoted the movement people, not the industry people. If you're in the industry, you are going to be in probably Vancouver. You're going to be someplace west of Hope and south of Whistler kind of thing. And then as soon as you get on to the island, same thing, you're going to get more of the kind family vibe and mentality, right? Yeah. I spent some time out in Nelson and Wynn Law, that area. Nelson is great. And they were just like, you know what? They grew phenomenal. I named my dog after a Kootenays stranger. It was called Kootenays. You know, our friend, I got to mention because he passed away, I don't know, a couple of years ago, maybe, Cormies. Corms, yeah. Yeah. He passed away not long ago, but he was like a lot of our friends are there, right? A lot of the people of like my age, people that were brought up there, like 90% went to the Kootenays. I would say like the drum circles, I used to have that organic. We used to have all like the hippies that would hippie kids, I call them like kids who were your age, maybe even a little bit younger. They used to all the organic travel because I did drum circles on Sundays or something like that. I'd say 90% of them ended out in the Nelson area and probably a good portion of them were like in plane and wasabi kind of thing. Like they were all good people. Well, but that's the thing, like there was in London they were called kangaroo, right? This band, they were like a little fun band called kangaroo. But like they all, like when they when they got old enough to go to college, they went there and like everybody went there. Yeah. But then you had you had shit on my dipstick. What are they called? Yeah. You know, like dipstick kangaroo and those guys, right? Well, Jimmy was with them. Jimmy was with them. Well, because when they all got there, they joined up with wasabi collective. Like Jimmy was in there. Yeah. Yeah. So I mean, that's what I was trying to get at about, you know, the cannabis industry and you know, I invite anybody who wants to challenge me on fucking, you know, East Coast, West Coast, where all the growers come like, we're not a fishing contest. We get, yeah. And it shouldn't be, but it is for some, right? And like, and that kind of brings me into my next thing because when I talk about, you know, legend seeds, right? And, and SOL, they're from this area, right? Yeah. And they're old friends and I listen back on my, on the last podcast and I use the words, the term we a lot when I talk about these guys because they're friends. Yeah. But when it came to dating and stuff like that, legends and SOL, I was just, I wasn't part of their, their company or part of their, their group. I was friends with them. I was there. I might have, you know, did whatever they wanted me to do kind of thing as helping out a friend. But I wasn't ever, when I say we, I don't mean I helped read anything with these guys. It was a friend circle. It was a career. And yeah, it was. And it brought me to another point where in my book, Steve hasn't come and fucking try to fire bomb my house yet. But when we were talking about the, the fast fear, which we spoke about. Oh yeah. You said that though, the last one, you said this already. You said that. You said this part. This part is on the, on the very last paragraph of the one chapter, it says, it was supposed to say I grew an award-winning strain. Okay. And it said, I've read an award-winning strain. Sure. And, but it taught the whole chapter. It just talks about me being a grower. I'm being a grower there and working for Mr. Hamp. And, you know, I answered to Steve. It was his program. And, but the very last thing was, it was a typo. And red brought it up. And I was like, oh fuck man, so he's going to kill me because he, you think I'm trying to, you know, steal his fucking limelight, black is Steve. You know, I think that's a common thing in cannabis actually because of how in the shadows and clandestine it is. Yeah, I do the same thing, dude, where some of the stories I tell where it's we, it's like, there's people that are known and there's people that are unknown. Yeah. Some of those people that are unknown wish to remain unknown. Yeah. You know? And so you're trying to tell history and tell a story, but you have to sort of edit it to some degree because what you're giving as accurate information, right? And then the flip side of that is that there's people that wanna be can of famous, right? And they wanna aggregate all the fame to them. And so even if it might've been a collective of friends all doing it, they're gonna tell the story like it was them alone in their basement working for 10 years. And then they came out with all this and no one else has shit to do with it. When you know personally that there was like seven other dudes and it was this loose collective of friends that were all involved. And this breeding happened at this house then and then this accident happened over here and then this happened. And it can be kind of weird to tell stories that way because a lot of money is made on every breeder and mikes except for maybe Neville, but most breeders are like, well, no, Neville was very clear about I got this from this person, I got that from that person I did this and this almost all breeders after him were like, this never existed before I carefully crafted it and no one else has had any of these genetics ever. Yeah. Like they started to fucking land raise kind of shit. Yeah. Like they just obscure that it came out of. I'm gonna break in cause like not to interrupt the flow but I didn't get to actually ask my question when we were talking about the BC stuff and I wanna ask this question. Do it. But it kind of is the same thing cause it's a dishonesty thing or like an illusion thing I guess you would say. But like that conversation going back to that conversation when you were disappointed, you mentioned something and at the time you mentioned it I kind of thought you were crazy. Like I didn't know cause I didn't know, right? When somebody tells you something you don't know you're kind of like, what? But you said something about high times and hyping DC. Magazine of the store. What's that? Magazine of the store. The magazine that like BC was only got really popular because high times was hyping them to kind of draw attention to them. Do you remember this conversation? No. No. Well, what I remember, which this could be totally false was that you were like, BC was like hyping up the big bud cause at the time like BC was really blowing up as like, right? But you were like, the magazine was kind of like trying to draw attention from the US and DEA attention to BC. I don't remember that conversation but I mean, part of that sounded a little familiar. I think what high times is trying to pimp was because California was such a huge market for cannabis, counterculture, right? Cause high times isn't a Canada's magazine, right? It's a counterculture magazine. So that's why it has so much music. It has so much cannabis is only a section of it, right? And then for a few years, they got rid of it, right? They didn't have cannabis for a few years. And that's when they started Grow America for a little bit. But I think because the term BC bud, right? Anything Canada was BC bud, right? So I think they were pimping that as well as because of the climate you could have larger outdoor grows than we could in Ontario, okay? They wouldn't go into Quebec, where you could also have fairly large out grows because of the language barrier. So I think for high times, I wouldn't say I know for a fact, but pretty damn sure with my interaction with them that they were pushing the BC bud because of its popularity in California. Because your top dollar, you know, anything from your tuna cans, fucking anything that was the BC bud got the top dollar in the day. And I mean, there's a name that we mentioned in our last talk and he was a broker. He's still in the industry. I think he's a fucking great guy. He knows a lot of history of this movement from the West Coast, but he was a broker. And he used to be able to sell a certain type of outdoor. And it was a pink something, but he was selling for $2,900 a pound for out to LA because it was... That's nothing though. People were selling 32 for out. Yeah, I realize that, but this is outdoor. What year is this? I was Canadian or US. What year? Oh, okay. That makes the difference. It would have been the Beester era. Yeah, I would say like late nineties. Oh, so like pink. You know, I can ask and it was so, it was a strain. I think it was called Sotica. Cream Sotica. Cream Sotica. Yeah. So we grew that out in Switzerland actually. Yeah. The guy that's growing it is a, I'm gonna use the word douchebag again, which I thought I was trying not to use, but this guy's a fucking douchebag. He ran the farm that I was hired to work on in the interior. And his name's Jay. I don't know, it was last time. I wish I knew it was last time, but I'd say it here too, because he's a fucking douchebag. What was the Cream Sotica like? The first time I ever saw that? It was a really unique plant. It had really bright pink stigmas in it, where it wasn't a huge producer, but it grew kind of like a really short, kind of like the pink freeze land, which I wouldn't be surprised if it might have, you know, again traveled west, which a lot of genetics did back in the day, as we were talking about before. That was just like, you know, it wasn't a very strong structured plant, but it just grew all these golf balls that would just, I mean, maybe a little bit easier to trim, but just look beautiful, rock hard. It would give you the BC bag of marbles. And it's kind of what I call a lot of the, you know, any pot that comes across my desk nowadays, I can basically look at it and tell you where it comes from by bag appeal, because, you know, BC had the tendency for a while there of not trimming the pot, but shaping it. So every dug looked like a fucking marble, right? Right, you know, but I mean, is back when they were making tons of extract, so they were trimming off a lot of the stuff because they knew they were going to be able to use it, kind of thing. And then you got the bag of marbles, the BC bag of marbles that was just kind of a look. So I think that the cream sodica was a strain that was kind of easy for their outdoor to look like indoor. And that's why bubble was able to fucking, you know, for ridiculous amounts of money. We have a strain out here called the West Coast Dog like that. It's just outdoor for indoor type shit. That's been the game, I mean, and where I live in Mendo, it's like, that's been the game forever of brokers being like, well, this outdoor passes light depth. Does this light depth look good enough to pass as indoor? Because where there was uneducated areas of the country or whatever, they were like, can I put this into a different bracket? Can I buy this for what it is, but claim it's the next grade up? It's time to people. I mean, and that's the industry envelop in the movement, the movement, right? Because there's going to be people like myself that say, hey, listen, you know, it's outdoor. It looks like indoor, you know? But fuck, I'm going to be honest with you. And if you want to be dishonest after that, that's up to you. But I'm probably going to charge you fucking more money. You're going to pay a fucking tax on something that looks spectacular. I don't give a fuck if it's indoor or outdoor or fucking greenhouse or, you know, small crop, large crop, you know, hand trim, machine trim, you know? Like there's so many variables at the end of the day, if it fucking looks good, smells good and fucking kicks you in the nuts, then what the fuck, who cares how it's grown? For me, I think, like what do we do when we grow indoor? All we're trying to do is mimic outdoor. We're trying to mimic mother nature. Mother nature has the fucking, the formula down. Where now we're able to with technology and so on, we're allowed, we can better mother nature, but for the longest time, we were just trying to reproduce outside inside, right? I do think we can do everything better than nature indoor, except for the sun. No, no, of course you can't. I mean, the sun is, the sun still by far is the best light. Right. Right. And I've done all kinds of spectrum experiments, different kinds of lights and all this. And, you know, to some degree, it's interesting too, cause like all, almost all of the award-winning hash made in California is all made with the sun. Right. You know, they don't use indoor grown stock. Indoor might get, you know, humans are so visual that indoor might look prettier, you know? And I also wanted to make a comment when you guys were talking about Ontario, you know, just different areas. There could be a lot, just for the simple fact that BC Bud rhymes. Yeah. You know? Well, yeah, yeah, so far as in Ontario, Nug doesn't really- Like what do you, what do you call Ontario weed? Like so, you know, I live in Mendocino County or whatever, and like, whether it came from Trinity or Mendocino or Sonoma or whatnot, if it went on dead tour, it was Humboldt County Organic Outdoor. Yeah, exactly. Well, and that's what I was gonna say, like what you were mentioning is, you know, Humboldt is the BC of the States pretty much, right? Like anybody that was, anybody that wanted to be a pop grower moved to California. Then once they were like, oh, we're in California, now what do we do? Like Humboldt, again, probably didn't have a fucking maternity ward. They didn't need one because there was only a few fucking people that lived there. And then all of a sudden the cannabis craze came and of course they were like, oh well, I move up there, I can name it fucking Humboldt County. Yeah, I'll tell you when I first moved to Mendocino County in the 90s, there was so few people moving here from outside that everyone thought I was a cop. Yeah. Oh yeah. Cause you look like a cop. Yeah. Fuck that, dude, I can tell you, I mean, we're gonna talk about dead tour. The first time I saw a cop tackle somebody on the lot with dreadlocks down to his ass and then pull out handcuffs. Yeah. I was like, oh. Yeah. I don't know, I'd say you can't tell what an undercover cop looks like, but you can tell what a regular cop looks like. Yeah, I'm like that, you know, but the only reason I said that is because it was before like what we call the green rush where people weren't moving, like people didn't move to the towns that I was moving to. Yeah. Like out of towners didn't come there. Within five, six years as medical advanced and sort of the green rush occurred, it got overwhelmed by, much like you were saying with BC, almost none of the growers from Mendo were born in Mendo. Right. They were all transplants. I mean, there was a small core certainly that was from there. But if you added them up by like number, it was probably like 90, 10. 10% were from there. And if that's the same thing with BC, like again, I'm not gonna pull, you know, I think BC has produced and still does produce phenomenal growers. I was saying that back in the day, most of those growers and therefore a lot of their genetics came from, you know, East or South. There's a debate on that too, like not so much in, but just in the sense of where is something from. Yeah, exactly. You know, like the, you know, we have this. I think the whole thing came from, came through. The came through because there's this whole thing where like, oh, the cush is from Florida. Well, what's the story of the cushion? They're like, oh, well, is this clone from the Emerald Triangle? And then pollen from some stuff we got from Neville and Holland. Right. But it happened in Florida. Right. You know? Well, see, and again, back when I was growing the cush before it was cush kind of thing, it was just basically the, you know, from the cush region of Afghanistan. Like I would say if people say, well, where's the Hindu cush from? Well, probably the Hindu cush mountains, right? Like these are, they might have, you know, took a cutting or a seed, you know, they might have brought something back during the war times, you know, which a lot of the genetics did, you know, come from soldiers returning from fucking overseas and bringing seed that they grabbed and planted in California, Florida, fucking Wyoming, fuck, anywhere, everywhere. It was just what ended up happening is where all the cool people or where the population that were like-minded ended up moving to in Canada, it would be BC. You know, in California, it was gonna be probably San Francisco or that area, following kind of the whole hippie movement and so on. So I would say, I don't say, I shouldn't say that the strain or their genetic came from Southwest in Ontario. I could say that they most likely came through and they probably came through California to get to BC. But again, when you get strains like texata, texata time warp, they're certain. And I found some seed that from Gabriola, right? Like where they come from, I'm sure there's people on the island that will claim or and rightfully so, say, well, texata came from texata because- They say it came from California. And we took pollen from Ontario or we took pollen from fucking some seed that we got out of Africa. I used to order seeds from fucking Africa back in Hamnation days, like literally from a seeds dealer out of fuck. Yeah, I think I'm looking for South Africa or the Swazi and Swazi pepper and there was another strain. But I would use that in my breeding program. I'm gonna put that in quotations again. I would use that when I was making seeds and that made that strain from here, right? Did it originate here? Yes, the seed did, but the genetics that it came from obviously didn't come from here because we have very little, if any, land races as same as BC has very little to any, same as California, they might have a land race there. I don't know of one, right? No, land race, no. No, I mean, I think most California breeding, if I had to guess what the very inception of California breeding is, it was like, how do we make these sativas that we're getting free seeds with these kilos we're getting? How do we make them finish in our area? Yeah. Oh, well, I have some Mexican and that stuff seems to finish earlier. So maybe I'll take some of this tie or Colombian and I'll cross it to Mexican. Yeah, exactly. And it was literally very like, it was very, I don't think people had goals other than the fact of like, I need this to finish before January. Well, I think that's where a lot of the genetics were built and why they were built because I know, and that's why, again, going back to the East Coast, West Coast, we had draft dodgers that fucking ran the border and brought their genetics up to Southwestern Ontario. Again, because being so close to Detroit, so close to Buffalo, you know, the most Southern part of this country, the soil, the so on, so forth, Perth County conspiracy, the whole kind of deal. What were we breeding for? What was I breeding for? I wasn't breeding for anything other than I wanna take that fucking strain and grow it in my house, in my basement, and I don't wanna run it for 14 weeks, right? So I'm gonna find, so, and again, a lot of my, I was a Sativa lover. So I wanted, if I could grow an original haze in six weeks that produced that one and a half pounds per light, I'd be in heaven. So that's where I was, that's my whole program. That's what it was about. I used to read Neville's catalogs and Sensi and God, anything that was in that 45 to 50 day range just looked attractive. It did, and I didn't get any, I didn't believe any of their shit. I really put the fucking the Amsterdam guys through a lot of shit in my years just because I called bullshit on a lot of them because I grew out a lot of their strains. And I was just like, this is, you know, I'm at 60 days, I'm not gonna argue at a 55 or 60 day flower, right? That's fine with me, but you're saying 45 today, 45 to 50 days, I'm like, yeah, don't know about that. You know, and they give me the fucking yields. I was like, yeah, don't know about that, you know, like, but again, maybe, again, that's business though. They need to, they wanna sell that seed and they wanna sell that seed to be attractive to the indoor grower or attractive to the North American grower who if they are gonna grow outdoors, they want it to be done in September. They need it to be done by October. You know, I mean, when you, when you look at like a California history before the helicopters, people were fine with things taking into November, no big deal. When there was no police pressure and they weren't worried about their crop getting chopped, November is fine. All of a sudden you get camp and you get all these helicopters in the sky and they're like, when can I pull down in September? Yeah. That extra two months is a real prop. Three months is an extra problem. We had snow that we had to worry about up here, right? Like the cops, the cops here grow in August, right? So the choppers are there in August, September, maybe kind of thing, right? Because we have to be down, ideally end of September, early October. If you go anything past that, bud rot and stuff like that, you know, we still get the humidity. We are surrounded by the Great Lakes. We get, you know, we get the cold, the hot days, the cold nights. We get bud rot like you wouldn't fucking believe. You know? I believe it. I mean, I think as some of these states like New York and New Jersey and a lot of these New England start to open up. And what they want is they want all these California bread strings. Yeah, I know. Because that's what's famous and they want to sell the name. But what they really should be after is the Canadian bread stuff. Well, again, like we say before, the BC bud is going to sell. The SW Ontario bud, they're going to know what the fuck does that mean, right? Even the Quebec, no, the Quebec bud, they're going to say, oh, I know Quebec. They're not going to know of Ontario. And Ontario is the biggest fucking most populated state. It definitely by far has the most cockroaches in it simply because of per capita, the amount of fucking, maybe not per capita, but because of the amount of people, population, right? But it's going to be a hard sell to say Canadian, Canadian buds. It's all, they're all going to say BC bud, right? And it's marketing. That's what's going to sell it kind of thing. Unfortunately, or, you know, fortunately, whatever. To me, I really don't, could give any fuck of a less, honestly. But, you know, it is hard for me here trying to sell down into the States unless they knew me or they knew the genetics I was growing. And high times, their office knew what I was doing because I used to fly down there with weighed out ACEs and weighed out quarters, English jars. I also, what was it? It was a 25th anniversary party. They had Cypress Hill and Joan Jett and whoever else. I supplied all the pot to that party because high times couldn't really afford back then, especially the high end pot. All the super nice nugs that you see in that magazine and you see Snoop Dogg with a big fucking plate of buds in front of them and big joints. They rent all that pot. They rent it? They rent it. Rent? You can rent weed? Yeah, they rent weed for the Photoshop, for the photo op. And then anything that is smoked, they're paying four, five, $600 an ounce. So there's this, when they were telling me that they're like, oh, fuck man, they're holding all the fucking big fat fucking blunt that's gonna cost us fucking $300, you know? What a bunch of clowns. Yeah, I'll do it. Well, you gotta remember what era it was though, too. I mean, it was, it was. He, you know, I know Sean was trying to get us to talk about like our, you know, some of our Amsterdam and cup experiences because we overlapped. But, you know, when I would go, I went to three cups in the 90s, I think, like 95, 97, 98, right? Right. And what I experienced was that, like you were just saying, all the best weed was set aside for like the celebrities. And the people that were gonna pay top dollar for it and the people that wanted to show up and like they didn't care if they dropped MadCoin. So it was actually like one of the worst weeks or months to visit Amsterdam because if you were just a normal person, they're like, well, we have good weed, but we're gonna sell it for three times what it's worth. Because these people- They're gonna pay the North American tax, right? You're gonna pay the North American tax because we have all these celebrities coming in and we have all these musicians and stuff and these entourages and we've got all this weed and hash that aside just for them. And we're gonna charge them out the nose for it. And so we can't give it to you unless you wanna pay this like exorbitant price. Yeah. And so it was like- It gets ridiculous. And again, New York is the same way. LA was the same way. New York and LA obviously were the highest markets, I think ever, any place in the world. And when high times used to do like in the very back of the pages, like the prices from around the world around the country and how much an eighth was and how much an ounce was. And so it was always LA and New York at the fucking top kind of thing. But with working with high times and Kyle knew my genetics, like I said, when he was coming here to buy it and shipping it back to Detroit, I would send nugs down to him. And we had a thing going where I mail it to the high times office. And then inside, I'd be like, I hope this gets you busted, you fucking douchebags. And putting in all this hate mail with a half pound of pot in it kind of thing, right? And when the 25th anniversary party was coming up, they reached out to me and said, hey, listen, would you be interested in selling us pot? And I was like, sure. I was like, I mean, we've been doing it enough kind of thing. I said, what were you guys thinking? They threw out a number and it was something like three grand a pound or something like that. And I said, and US. So I said, okay, let me think about it. And I'm like thinking myself, what fucking kind of people are you fucking morons? So I call them back up and I say, listen, I can't take three grand. And Kyle was like, Pete, that's pretty fair. I was like, okay, I'll do this. I'll take $2,400 a pound, right? US. And I'm gonna mail a few boxes of jars. So I didn't mail, freeze the bag, half pounds of pot other than what they wanted for the party, which was just a few pounds or something like that. But I mailed probably at least a pound that was already weighed out and sealed in glass jars with fucking homemade labels on every jar. And I would mail them separately. And then when I got down there, I sat in Steve's office. Well, it was either Bloomy's office or there was one other office. Anyways, I would just, I would sit in their office and they would come in like one at a time and choose. I was like, listen, it's fucking, I think I was stiffing them a little bit. I might've charged $50 an eighth kind of thing because I could and it was like, I was shipping literally jars that were cured and it was like my nicest stuff. I got to sit on the couch with Jack Herrera and I was super stoked because I was like, listen, Jack, I want you to smoke this golden haze. It's my strain. I bred it, but I used some genetics that, you know, there's NL5 skunk one that made his, that sense he used to make his strain. I used some of that. I used a version of keeping that kind of blend in mind because it was exactly what I wanted in my strain. I wanted, like I said before, short fat, sativa giving high from a plant that's going to finish in less than 60 days and I could throw in a fucking room with nine foot ceilings. Yeah. And it was like, when he tried my stuff and he's like, wow, that's fucking really nice, tasty, so on and so forth. It made my fucking, it made my career at that time kind of thing just to be there and smoke a joint with them at the same time having, who was the head of, who was it, Hagar? Hagar, is that his fucking question? Hagar, yeah, Steven Hagar. Yeah, so I think I was sitting in his office actually because he was the head honcho and I was selling fucking quarters and eighths and shit like that prejared up to the entire staff kind of thing. And then the party was, you know, that night and I was just like, they paid me fucking ridiculous and I took less, far less than what they were offering me because I was kind of honored one that I can supply the pot but I was also making a shitload of money by selling them my private growers' jar collection kind of shit, so. That's a testament to London because like you don't know how hard it is. Like being on the internet and talking to weed guys, trying to say that Southwestern Ontario had fucking great pot, nobody believes it. Nobody, nobody believes it. Yeah, they're just like, yeah, you can't have great pot, man, all you have is fucking cities and cornfields but again, it comes down to population. When you have 10 to 15 times the amount of people jammed into a certain area, there's gonna be phenomenal pot growers as well as the people that really want to find that unique strain. And they travel the world, maybe not for pot but due to the amount of people, the population, they travel all over the world. And if they fucking find pot in Thailand or North Africa or someplace and like, oh, I got a couple of seeds, I'm gonna throw them in my fucking, in my shoe. And it's just because of the amount of people that we have coming back here. And again, why I would always say that, I think Southwestern Ontario produces some of the best pot growers and genetics passing through in Canada. A lot of that though is due to community building because like, you know, the hemp nation thing, like when that happened and you were offering what you did at that place, a lot of people learned a lot from access. And even it literally planted the seed for a lot of people, right? Because Chris gave people the option to buy their own seed, not take bagweed and find a seed and not know, you know, what the fuck it is. We were kind of weeding out some of that. We were telling you what it is. We will tell you it's gonna be something within this range because it is an F1. We just took this sensey seed and we took this greenhouse seed and we grew them and this is what we got. And the mother was this and the dad was this and this is what they looked like and this is when they finished and so on. So we gave them an educated guess, but it was literally planting the seed of people. When I started that Grow Your Tuition campaign in London here, just for all the students, right? Giving them discounts. I had a coupon on a flyer that gave them a discount on Grow Guides and then like I said, information, the best thing about information is it's free. If you wanted to come down on the Sundays and we have cultivation talks, you know, I didn't mind sharing that. I fucking love talking to them. That's what we're doing right now, right? Like we were doing this back in the mid-80s, the mid-90s kind of thing. I was doing this back in the fucking mid-80s. It's actually really hard for me to tell people today with like what we're doing right now and all the forums and IG and all the ways that people can connect, how tough it was to get information, how small groups used to be, how rare it was to find people that like knew what they were doing. And then the other thing is like, I still consider like 90s to be like the golden era of weed, just in the sense because basically any like weed was rare enough that it could take too long. It could not look that great. As long as it worked really well, it was gonna gain popularity, you know? Because there was only so much of it. So like a lot of the famous strains in the 90s rose to the top because they were really good, you know? And they didn't really have a hype. I think a lot of people nowadays, you know, the placebo effect comes into play a lot with all these new genetics. Sure, there's a lot of fire out there, but there's people that are just like, oh, well, this is this strain, right? Oh, this is a kush. Oh, well, and it has the smell of a kush, but it has a, you know, it doesn't really rock you like some of the other, but since it, you know, smells like it, looks like it fucking must fucking be the fire. Close enough. And then they're just like, oh, yeah, I'm super high, I'm super high. You know, I've done that with my clients at the Compassion Center where they were like, oh, you know what, Northern Lights doesn't work for me. It's, you know, I've tried it and it's just, you know, I smoked it back in the 80s. I didn't like it, didn't get me high. Okay, well, the Northern Lights I have is not the same, but I give them the Northern Lights that is fire for other people. They're like, yeah, it didn't really do it for me. I mean, your mind is quite strong tool. Yeah. So I would do the same thing. And I was infamous with my organic traveler crew, like all the, you know, glass blowers that were downstairs and all this, that thought they were these pot snobs. And they'd be the same thing like, oh yeah, you know what, that stuff's, you know, it's not that great. Okay. Well, they had that tasty bud shit, that little fucking flavoring crab. Oh God, yeah. Plants? Juicy Jay's tasty buds. Yeah, whatever the fuck. So I would actually take some of that. I would take fucking great pot, but you know, the fraggle is one glass blower. He was just always against like, yeah, I know that, but he was like, oh, I had this cherry bomb once and it was fucking awesome. So I fucking took the cherry shit and fucking did a little light mist on it kind of thing and put it in the jar and let it sit there. And same fucking string that I gave them, right? Need the nugs look a little bit different, made them look a little bit smaller. I was like, hey, listen, this is not called cherry bomb. It's called cherry blossom. This guy just came through. He's from fucking Tobacco or fucking Peterborough. And he opens it up and he's like, oh yeah, it smells it. Like this is good and fucking smokes. He's like, yeah, that's fucking. So we need to try this, this strain. I was like, fuck you, dude. That's the God thing that we fucking, you smoke fucking two weeks ago. You said it was shit. You know, I just put tasty bud on it. And now none of those guys would fucking trust me to give them any fucking pot. Oh, fuck no. Yeah, you ruined that. Fuck you, man. That's fucking tasty bud. And I was like, no, it's actually not kind of thing, but. So, yeah. I've been accused of using that on some of the blueberry stuff we put out. The tasty bud stuff. Like when people smell like good blueberry stuff. Yeah. This is a syrup. I think a lot of people, you know, and if you smell my B93, like it does it. It smells like, not the blueberry smell, but it smells like a pint of actual blueberries, right? You know, it's a little bit more that sweet, earthy aroma kind of thing. And again, it's from 93. That's when we started the seeds, right? Like it's an old fucking plant kind of thing. I got them, I'm going back to that era and it would have been, I would have got them indirectly. Okay. Or basically it was when he was first releasing his blueberries. If I remember correctly, I mean, Tony could have had it earlier. Don't get me wrong. But I think that Tony had with Simon, they had Cerebral in 94. Right. And then they split and Tony made Sagmartha and Simon made Sirius. Yeah. You know? See, I think DJ Short was with Tony. And they did the bubble gum. And they called it 94 blueberry, if I remember correctly. He worked with Tony. He sold it through Tony first and then they had some falling out. And then I think he moved to Dutch Passion. Yes. And then he got angry at all of them. And then he moved it to Canada. Yeah. Yeah. And that's the thing is, and this is where he met up with Steve and Red. And Red. And I'll call him the air mechanic because I don't know of a nickname for him. But he was a great grower. Didn't do anything huge, like 12 lights or something. But if I'm not mistaken, again, Red would be the better information on the background on this. But I believe they bred the blue satellite. Okay. Or I know they were doing a grow out for DJ. And but that was a little bit later. So the seed that I got was just before that. And that's where I was thinking that it might've came indirectly from DJ. But it would've been like, I thought it was, I know it was 93, but I thought it was actually from him and not from Tony or from Simon. Is it a clone that's still alive? Yeah. Oh. I literally just killed off like 675 to 80% of my genetics. Yeah. Because I'm just, I'm retiring, I'm tired, really frustrated. I was actually there today, trying to salvage what one of my staff from the center, he's like, if you can save me all these strains, I'll find somebody to grow, to babysit them for you until you get over this divorce shit. And if I wanted to go into it, like out of the 123 strains that I had, I had data collected on their use, medical uses through the Compassion Center, going back almost 15 years. Yeah. So because in Canada, we cannot say, well, this strain works for this medical condition. What I could do is saying, out of the 30 people that suffer from MS, this is their, the top selling Indica, this is the top selling Sativa. I think that's responsible, actually. And it would just be basically giving them, well, it's data to use. Say again. It's data to use. I mean, that's really. Yeah, it is. Literally for almost 15 years, I've collected this. That's the most important shit. I had it all fucking ready and packaged to go into the LPs up here. And I just fucking saw the dark side of the fucking industry that was just chewing and spitting out anybody from the movement. Yeah. And I took a lot of heat from people. I think we talked about this last time, from people in the movement that thought I sold out by going into the LB legal industry. I mean, it's crazy because it's what you've been working for your entire life. Yeah, it's like fucking crazy. You can't fucking steer the boat if you're standing on the shore, fucking yelling, like get on the fucking boat. Well, I mean, as you like. In the best direction you can. And that's what I was doing with my genetics. I was like, I can't, and I'm again, strange names or names to me. Because I'm out for the medical benefits of it. I don't give a fuck what you call it. And that's going to come back to the dog shit. Where it doesn't, it didn't really make a difference. Now I had a, I had a strain that called warm diarrhea. Right? Ugh. Fuck it was. Sound fucking fabulous. Really marketable, you know? It was this one strain didn't produce for the fuck. But holy God, Jesus, did it ever smell like dog shit fucking warm diarrhea? Like hot summer time fucking diarrhea squirted on your legs kind of smell. But really marketable. Fucking phenomenal fucking plot. And I was just like, so I called it that. I was like, I don't know what it is. It's a fucking clone that I went to. I was consulting a guy's garden. He fucking said these are my strains. I was like, where are they from? He's like, I fuck, you know, my brother-in-law gave me some of this and some of that. And I found some seed in this and that. And this one fucking, one plant was like, holy God, Jesus, that's nasty. I gotta have it. Got it. And, you know, with Sam when he was doing his skunk and everybody was like, oh, it's, you know, and I just have this conversation today actually with my cousin. Cause he's like, I had a skunk one back when, back when Tilly was fucking growing for the center. Right? And I'll find the picture because it may, it was a full page picture in high times. And it's this kid holding one of the nugs up and he's holding his forearm. And the nug is twice the size of this kid's forearm. Oh, wow. And that was my skunk one. And it's, you know, you grow the true skunk one, I believe is mainly grown for structure more than that skunky smell. If I'm not mistaken, I think Sammy was actually trying to get rid of, and I think I was, That's his claim. You guys will cover this. You don't, you don't follow like modern IG culture and stuff, but like, there's been a massive, massive movement on finding roadkill skunk, which everyone- Okay, that is a strange because I was gonna, I'm making that this, the cuttings that I sent out West today, this guy, and I don't know his fucking name, I'll find out, but he sent one of my Sasquatch, the kid that works for me, who's like the cannabis connoisseur. He ended up getting this fucking jar of skunk one. I opened it up and I was like, Holy fuck, that's my skunk one. It smells like, and I called it roadkill, skunk one. I didn't know that it was a name called roadkill. I was- Yeah, yeah, it's not a strain though. It's just, it's just a reference to a type of expression that can come from Afghanis or skunky plants. Okay, well this, this skunk one grew the structure and the, and my cousin just said, listen, if you get it, I want to breed with it because it has the, if it's the same cut that this guy's sending me, it smells the same. The nub looks the same. I have to find out if the structure is the same because the structure was what the skunk one was all about. Like I have that big nub that fucking can hold itself and like I said, this Tilly kid that was growing and we were doing on an Evan flow table and they were just spikes. They were just these big beautiful fucking fragrant roadkill smell, skunk one. So, you know, and I think I was, I tried to put some of your guys podcasts on. I don't listen to podcasts. So in all honesty, the first and only podcast I really listened to was like three nights ago when it was, while I was going to bed and I wanted to hear what we did. Yeah. And something else came up when you guys were talking about Sam's breeding trying to breed out the skunk one, the skunky skunk, you know, actually and focusing on structure. And I was like, that's ironic because that's what I wanted. But I was also chasing that super skunk kind of aroma. And it was this roadkill, like because it doesn't smell like skunk when you spray it that tarry kind of burnt fucking stuff. It had that fucking you're driving down the fucking road and you're like, holy shit, you know, that's skunk, you know? Yeah. It had that smell to it. So maybe if I remember that from like London I definitely remember skunky smells. And like I kind of relate it to like that Heineken skunky beer smell more than animal smell. Right. I have a question for you, Sean. This is totally off topic. Yeah. So you wanted to get green Heineken bottles or brown? Green is Christ not so. Yeah. No, okay. So check it out, right? So you can say Jesus Christ, but I go to Holland in the 90s and they have the Heineken brewery, right? Is like, it was, it moved now. But it was in Amsterdam and they gave tours, you know? And so if you buy Heineken in Holland it's in a brown bottle, right? And you talk to like the Dutch about it. And I'm like, well, why is it in a green bottle in America? And they're like, oh, because you guys are dumb but it's iconic over there. So you want the green bottle, but it oxidizes. So it makes the beer go skunky and shit. Yeah. If you get it in Europe, it's a dark brown bottle. Okay. Because we don't want the light to fuck it up. We don't want the UV light. Well, but that taste is the constant taste. And like we have another beer. You guys are used to this like oxidized skunky beer. Yeah. And he's like, you buy in Heineken anywhere in Europe it's in a brown bottle. You go to the USA, it's in a green bottle. And he's like, it's just advertising. We have, we have two. We had two beers that were like the pot beers and it was Heineken and Moose Head. And Moose Head was also in a green bottle, you know? But they both had that very skunky, skunky, like to get a six pack and some weed and smoke weed and smoke like and drink Moose Head was like that was the thing, you know? That was like they paired, you know? You guys are such Canadians, bro. I mean, what's funny about it? I've been drank beer in like 20 years. I'm not a beer drinker. I just, I just, I, you know, I just had to throw it out there because I was like shocked when they literally were like, oh, we only do that to the dumb Americans. Right. That's like legit what they said, you know? And so I was like, oh, I guess that includes Canadians but what's funny about what's funny about the skunk, you know, is that like we're all so old now, right? There was this thing that tripped me out because you don't feel old in your head even though when you're getting old where I saw this thing where like the nineties are as far away now as the sixties were in the nineties. Yeah. Right? And so there's all these smokers that like they, all the stuff we're talking about, all this stuff that's like our youth, you know? And, you know, in our twenties and everything else that was so common. This is all legendary just words now. The reason why they're hunting that skunk is because it's gone away. And while it was super common in the nineties and there was lots of weed that was very skunky or had skunk type turps, it's kind of gone away, you know? And so now it's like, you know, we were talking about how BC Bud Rhymes or whatever but like Northern all these strains are coming back again and they don't even have to be the actual strain anymore. It just has to have the name. Yeah. Because the name is what survives. The population, the users are so young that they won't know the difference. They don't know. They weren't aware of smoking the NL back in the day. They're not smoking pot anymore kind of thing, right? So. Mark this down. You know, like the big, the big strain back in my day was like the NL five skunk one, right? Yeah. That was the go to, that was if, you know, the center of the road, easy to grow, big yield, depending on what phenotype you got, you know, it kind of was the best of all worlds. And it was again, it was an easy grower kind of thing. But, you know, to find anything like that, I think like pot now is so bastardized. Yeah. I agree. It's not as simple, you know? And sure. Gentlemen, my man. Well, I didn't have another question. We were talking about the triple SC last time. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And so do you have any contact to any of the good old boys that were part of that group? Yeah, we interviewed them. Okay. Karel, the original owner. Okay. Now, was he out of Amsterdam or? Very much, very much so. He's a Dutch born. Yeah. Okay. So, but he's not originally from the States. He didn't move there. No, he's definitely Dutch. Okay. So, did they have offsprings of their group in California? No. They said they never worked with anyone in the United States ever. Now, what not work with? I'm just thinking that after they were there, that they moved that after maybe some of their colleagues, staff or something, I want to find out about the golden boy because the way I, what I was told was that this strain came from Ontario and I wouldn't say maybe like more up central north of Southwestern Ontario, but it came from the triple SC or somebody from that group that is now living in Canada. And we're going back to like, SC didn't have a strain called golden boy either. They had, they had like M1, M2, M3, M4, M5, M6. And then they have little names after, but it'd be like Nigerian, Kandahar or skunk one or basic five. It was very, very basic. There's Williams Wonder, small names like that. No golden boy though. Can you ask them though? Like, yeah, if you can reach out and just ask them because the story that I had was, it came from their group and I believe it was bred by them and it might have had like an M24 or something like that. Yeah, yeah. But it was a 45 day finishing plant and that's what was so, was a fucking crazy, wasn't the best yield there. It was a really weird looking plant, but it was 45 days. Was it an Indica or Sativa? It was, I would say would have leaned, I would say, I wouldn't even say it was leaned either way. I would have to look at some of the pictures. That's so fast. That I think I even have, I might have the pictures. That's like mighty, might fast, isn't it? Dude, it was super fast. It was ridiculously fast. It wasn't a great strain on its own, but it was great for breeding. Yeah. And that's what I again, I wanted to call it called golden haze because there was other things in it. It was chemo and skunk in it. And we crossed it with the golden boy because I wanted to speed it up, but what I was looking for was a fast, growing, short, fat Sativa. Yeah. So the haze, there was a early skunk chemo crossed with a haze, and then we crossed it with the golden boy to speed it up. And, you know, see all over the place. I just, I found one that seemed to fit the mold I was looking for. And I just caught, I didn't have a seed of it. I just had a cutting of it. Yeah. And then we did breed it with some other strains. My buddy Skipa, who in 14 years passed away, but he crossed it with something blue strain. Maybe it was even like blue skunk. I got to look it up. I might still have some of those seeds too, but I just wanted to find the lineage of that golden boy because I was told it came from the triple SC boys. Early 90s, maybe mid 90s. So they were done by then. Yeah, they were done. That's what I mean. Yeah. Yeah. They were long gone by then. But I'm just thinking if it was offspring from them, and even being off, literally offspring kids of theirs or something like that, that moved to Ontario and brought them there to the US. Yeah. I wonder if his son moved out there because his son took over the company eventually. I know that he's going to run it now. Yeah. And again, this wasn't anybody that I knew. It was just, that was the story that was brought to me. And like I said, the strain was a really unique strain, but it was super fast. And I was like, it was going to be a breeding staple for us until we grew it out. And we're just like, yeah, this plant is fucked up looking kind of shit. It did some really weird shit. Did you like C99 at all since you were looking for plants that were fast, hazy? I haven't seen 99 right now. Came from this guy tank out of Toronto area. I did grow, I'd have to look at my notes. It just tends to be one of those ones that spits out like this. It wasn't super fast. It didn't stand out as the, you know, 45 day. It was, it might have been like a 55 day. A lot of the stuff we do was like 56 day kind of stuff because we had 50 lights and I needed to produce, I needed things to grow and finish all around the same time. Yeah. Kind of thing for the summer. And we did, we did do the C99. It did have a following. So we wanted it, we did, we did want to bring it in and incorporate it. That photographer that you couldn't remember the name. Andre Grossman. Yeah, somebody commented. Yeah, I thought it was going to be my brain. I think, did I put that in the notes and I sent you notes? I was like, oh, you have to bring this one. But yeah, Andre Grossman, fuck. I love that guy. He was a phenomenal, fucking phenomenal. Him and there was another photographer at Amsterdam called himself Yop. He did like the first really micro trichrome photography. Okay. And he, yeah, he shot through a microphone, a microscope and he did some pretty interesting photography. He was like one of the, he was the first, I think, that did micro photography on cannabis. But Grossman, really nice guy, super talented. He's the one that shot Kyle's special blend poster. Yeah. You know? And I lost track of him. I should try to find him. I know a lot of... I'd like to talk to him. Last time I spoke to him, I believe was right after 9-11. And I call him, I was trying to find him in more of a panic because being a photographer myself, if he was in the city, he would be the type of guy that's running towards the fucking buildings. Yeah, yeah. To take photos before they came down kind of thing. So I was kind of concerned about that. But anyway, we did a few, I'm gonna say shoots together because he was well, well more established than I was. But he did help me because I would find out through him what he was getting paid. And I said, well, if you're gonna use the centerfold for me, I wanna get paid the same or close kind of shit, right? Yeah. Well, back then, like you did, did you do school for photography? Yeah. Yeah, I started to get a three year program here in London. Okay. You were like early, early cannabis photographer, right? How many photographers were around back then? Yeah, there wasn't very many of us. Did you ever meet the Ang Lee? I was, Andre and I both were listed as contributing photographers in the inside cover, right? But he ended up getting lots of, a lot more centerfolds, covers and stuff like that. And yeah, I think he might have went to school. I'm actually, I just met with Fanshawn. We're gonna, I'm gonna put together a scholarship in my name, ironically for the program because I want to, I want kids to know that you don't have to be a fucking portrait shit photographer. You can be a pot photographer and still make good and kind of, even though I'm with the jail for it and shit like that, I think it would make a good story for a scholarship. Well, like, yeah. Cool. In the last episode, you mentioned like when you were at the border, you had 10,000 negatives, like 10,000. That's a lot of photos, man. Oh dude, I had boxes and I just found a box. God, I'd love to have that. Did you remember thought about doing a book? No, no, there's other people that did you keep track of the strains in these pictures? Like, did you write on it? What strain? What I used to do is I would take a picture of the plant and then I take a piece of paper and I'd write what the strain was and put it in the picture. And then I would do a shoot of that strain. Yeah. And then I'd take a picture of the plants and the crops and full plant shots and stuff like that. And then if I liked it enough for, and I thought high times would like it, I would shoot it on a positive, on a slide. Yeah. Because we had better color saturation and it was better for them though. And then a lot of the times I would bring out my old super eight video camera and videotape what I was doing because I was doing it for information for myself on different genetics as well as for high times and for future, you know. I mean, that's gonna be super important. Like, I don't know if you understand that, but because so much has changed and so many things have been renamed over the years, it was a really prime time during those years to get point, like when you say like point of origin for like land race stuff, this is like point of origin for a lot of these strains. Like in their natural habitat, like getting pictures of, let's say Romulan in Canada during this era, that's very special. We don't have a lot of pictures of things like that anymore. When I was up, there was a strain called Biker Bob, which was a big strain out in California and BC for a while there. Who else said that? I know I did this shoot with high times in mind. I think Red set it up. Well, maybe Mark, no, I don't think Mark set it up. Somebody set it up, but like it was up in North of Whistler and I used to blindfold myself on all of these photo shoots. I wouldn't go to a photo shoot, especially if I didn't know the people when blindfolded. I would just wear sunglasses and I would take the inside of sunglasses. Even if they said I didn't have to do that, they're like, dude, we know who you are. You don't wanna pop up on that radar ever, is someone? I just like, you know what, dude? You have a list of, and on that list is everybody that knows about your garden. I don't wanna be on that fucking list. If something goes south, I don't wanna be on that list. Kind of thing. That's smart, yeah. And we ended up in some really fucked up back shit area countries, good old boys, million dollar fucking grows. I'm sure. When I was working in the interior, we ended up going to one and definitely HA or something like that, but super nice fucking guy. And ironically, he blew his fucking transformer on the pole when I was there. Sparks flying everywhere, fucking all the lights going off. His entire fucking crew, I met this guy this day. It's when I was working on that greenhouse and his entire fucking crew fucking bailed. Everybody fucking ran because they knew fucking high doors coming, right? Like he just blew a fucking transformer. It's on fire kind of shit. And I'm so used to being the guy that, back in the nation days, I'm the one that had the pickup truck with the topper on it that could fit all the pop plants and everything in the back. Not scared of the fucking cops. I mean, I think I can outrun a lot of the cops, especially back then. So I was just like, fucking what are we doing? What are you like? Yeah, we need to grab. Let's go. And he was like, but we need to take this down. We need to shut this door. We need to screw this. We need to do this. And I was just like, fucking right. We were there for a couple hours, maybe before the hydro people showed up. You know? And it was all, I think, I think he put up his own fucking transformer on a pole or something. And it blew their transformer or something. So he was definitely like, fucking, he was going there in part. But you know, we were just like, we're here to fucking hell. I was like, I don't want to know what your fucking garden is. I, you know, so I'm blindfolded when I get here. I'm blindfolded when I leave. But while I'm here, I'm your fucking best friend kind of thing. I'll do whatever it fucking takes. But yeah, I ended up, I ended up always, you know, even at that garden, I don't remember what the strains were because I think why I was a little worried because I didn't know what I was walking into on this one. It was just a friend of a friend kind of thing. And when I got there, you could tell it was definitely organized guys on two wheels. And I don't want the bike of Bob, you know, most of the guys that are riding the bike of Bob's road bikes. Yeah, yeah. It makes sense. I'm just going to turn on the lights so you can see me better. But yeah, yeah. Did you bring your seed case with you? I, I didn't, I want to start going through it. I didn't start going through it. I'm sitting on my desk downstairs because I actually want to go through it all. Yeah. I want to, I want to go through it on the video with you so we could just, so it'd be easier, I guess. I don't know. You should just do a whole session on that. Yeah. Just do a whole session. Yeah, we have to find, like a lot of the seeds I have are just like seeds that came to me with a story. That's the best, but that's the best part, right? Like, that's what people want to hear is the story. So that's these, these seeds can evoke a lot of these stories that you probably didn't even remember that you had about certain strains. Yeah. But again, like the Elmwood, no one's gonna know what the fuck the Elmwood is, right? There's a strain that was super popular in certain circles in South-Western Ontario for Outdoor, right? But after this, people are gonna be chasing it, guarantee you, people are gonna be trying to find it. I don't have a shitload of those seeds. I'll send it. And that's something else like I was saying is, yeah, but see, that's the same thing. Like now, you know, would, would, I'm gonna call them double D because I don't know, that's in Canada that used to work for him. He's out on the East Coast, obviously. But if he would know about that box story, yeah, I mean, Ed would know about it, but I don't know too many people that want to talk to Ed. Yeah. But I- Oh, you were referring to Rosenthal, right? Yeah, yeah. Someone in the thing was like, no, he's referring to Ed Borg. I was like, no, he's referring to Rosenthal. No, Rosenthal. No, he's Borg. Yeah. Yeah, just because, again, that's what he told Miss for Hamp and Steve when he was working in Switzerland with those guys. Yeah. So, you know, again, everything that we talk about is, and I was just reading something today about the natives, a native saying where, you know, people like you, we want to remember how purpose on this planet is to remember our legacy or something and it should be to continue our story kind of thing. And everything that we, you know, like we're discussing here, as we said earlier, was this is what I was told. And a lot of this shit's just not written down. It's not, and it's not going to be written down for obvious reasons. So that's why, you know, when I get to meet guys like you, I'm saying, well, if you know somebody that knows somebody, this is what I heard. Yeah. And they might say, yeah, there's no way that happened. And I'm saying, okay, well, at least I know now. Yeah. Well, are they going to say that? Well, it's kind of the purpose of this podcast is that a lot of the history is oral. Like a lot of history is like verbally passed on, you know? And it always was. They made this shit down, you know? We had some carvings in the, on the walls in the caves, you know, and all stretched out leather, but no, we have a, everything is, you know, sit around the campfire and tell stories and take that to the young ones. And, you know, when I was at Rainbow Gatherings, you know, the granola funk was a camp that we were staying with. And their contribution was building a stage. Luckily, the one I went to, I was able to help build a stage so the elders could come in, tell stories about earlier years of the Rainbow Gathering and the history of the Rainbow Gathering. And I was like, well, fuck, you know, we need that. And that's what I feel this is, is for the canvas industry, for the seeds is, you know, a lot of this shit, this is what I've been told, this is what I hear. And if we can find people to, like I say, with the triple SC, golden boy story, you know, is that, you know, was somebody pulling my leg? Was somebody that told me this, did believe it because somebody told them that? Yeah. I'm still tempted to go, he's like the one person that I knew that worked with Neville, helped Neville get to the castle. Well, that's right, I called him Neville, called him, I wasn't sure about using names. Yeah, yeah, D-E-D-E-D, okay. Yeah, so I think that he would at least know something, I would think. Yeah, so, and like I said, what the story was is, you know, there was somebody, Neville was supposed to sell a bunch of genetics to somebody, never came through, he threw him in the back of a freezer when he was pulling out of, I believe, Amsterdam. He came across them, he passed them on to Ed, supposedly for like an outstanding debt or something like that, or maybe just because he had them and they ended up with Steve in Switzerland. Yeah. And whatever happened to the fast beer and all that stuff? Yeah, the fast beer, the fast fatty, the Night Queen. Are they still alive? No. Yeah. But the Ortega, which was one of them, is in the Louie. I don't, they didn't really like it, I guess I'm a four, they didn't like any of the strains that I liked, like the fast beer and the Night Queen, because they were sativas. Steve and Rad and those guys were all big Indica fans, so they loved the Ortega, you know. I wish I could remember some of the other streams, I'll have to kind of go through. I have a, thank you for joining us on this journey. We are forever thankful that enough people watch us to keep us going. With that in mind, you can show your support for the show by liking, subscribing and sharing the show. 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