 Growing up I used to just love organising things and there was just something about organising an administration that I really loved and after that I was like why not BAPA but I think when I mentioned it to other people they were like why do you want to be a BAPA and I was like what's wrong with BNPA so I felt like at that time they probably looked down on PA's I don't know why. What's it actually like keeping somebody like me organised? Lord. With one of my clients I was like do you trust me like do you like give me what I need so that I can do what I can do. When you've had relationships that haven't worked out with clients like why has that been? Of course you would bring up this question. Happy New Year everybody. I wanted to start the year with something a little bit different and I've bought on somebody who's extremely important to me and that is my PA Shana. I wanted to start the year on this topic because for most of my life the thing that helped me back was being disorganised and the relationship I have with Shana is very much so now why I am the man I am today and to be honest with you the future that I'm going to have in front of me I know Shana and her team are going to play a massive role so in this episode you'll hear a little bit more around what it's like to have a PA as well as a bit of advice around how you can become more organised yourself. Hey Shana, how are you doing? I'm good thanks, how are you? I'm doing well. Thanks for coming on the podcast. You're welcome. I feel like I've been well I've wanted to get you on for quite a while to be honest with you. Is it? Yeah but you're to be fair when I spoke to Abby Sawyer about it she we wasn't convinced that you'd actually want to come on board. Because you wasn't convinced? I wasn't convinced yeah. Why? I'm not even too sure now to be honest. That's interesting. But for the people listening and watching could you introduce yourself please? So my name is Shana I am the founder of Arc Shana and Co and I literally love helping people organise their lives. Yeah you legit save lives as your buyers so I without a doubt would not be able to survive about you so I can say that from now. Of course. So for today's episode what we did want to do is talk about the experience of what it's like to be a PA but also for people that are interested in getting a PA as well let them know a little bit more about that. So the first thing I want to start off with oh and by the way these are questions that Abby Sawyer our producer went and outsourced or got from people that were quite interested to hear from me today. Okay. All right so the first of those questions is why did you become a PA? That's a good question. I think growing up I used to just love organising things and there was just something about organising an administration that I really loved and after that I was like why not be a PA but I think when I mentioned it to our people they were like why do you want to be a PA? I was like what's wrong with being a PA so I felt like at that time they probably looked down on PA's I don't know why but for whatever reason because of my skills and because I wasn't actually good at it I just kept on gravitating to be a PA did admin in my church also like volunteered and stuff and then I was like okay this is something that I really love so I might as well just continue yeah that's basically it I think because my skills matched and it was just something that was just natural I just like launched into it. Because I believe when we first got to know each other it was because you had reached out to me around supporting Dream Nation but that was an event at the time. So that was your first business via organising events. I didn't know you as a PA initially. So I had an events company called SA Events Ltd but at the time I also had PA clients on the side as well but I was more focused on the events because it was obviously much more exciting but yeah I was intertwined both so yeah. Okay and do you still do the event business now? Yeah so under ArcShaner and Kerr we do events as well but obviously my main focus at the moment is administration and PA work. Excellent and I guess in your case what was it actually made you reach out to me to be to ask about helping with events? I think just bringing more awareness to my company I've been to your events in the past as well so I was like oh your events are really good I would love to get involved and I think at that time I think you stopped doing events quite a bit so I wanted to find out if you're gonna do events again and yeah so I decided to reach out and thankfully you was we had a conversation which was really great and we kind of went from there. Yeah it was at the time I had moved away from the old Dream Nation team so there used to be 20 of us back in the day but we were kind of going through that bit of a transition of going from that number to where we are now and the whole of the events team was no longer part of the organisation so I wanted to do events I wanted to bring back the gala especially but I had no idea how to do it so you literally reached out at the perfect time. It was good literally. But then could you tell the people like how did we transition from you just organising our events or that event for us into the relationship that we have now? So I think after the first event there was something in me that was just like claw like you're not good at responding to messages or it just wasn't like flowing and I was like well I feel like these are the areas I could help with and then obviously you had a conversation with you was like I feel like you need help with just managing organising things is this something that you're interested in and obviously you said yes and it just went off the back of that basically. I can't remember because I was like many years ago fully but yeah and then we just started working like in that way basically which was really good. I'll say from my side it was you're right it's one of my biggest weaknesses for all of my career as an entrepreneur and any other area is I am crap at admin like really bad and it's probably a dyslexic thing as people know I am dyslexic so I just have to have so many emails that were unresponded to I had like invoices that were not sent or and it was just making me look unprofessional and I can't stress enough how many opportunities are lost because of being bad at admin and I remember back at the time when I first took you on board I couldn't afford you like first and foremost yeah those were hard times but even still like I made that sacrifice to keep on keep you on board because I was confident that it was going to be one of the best investments I could make and I can say without a doubt it easily has been all the things I have now if I didn't have to support that yourself and your business provides for me I would be nowhere as successful as I am today so so thank you for for getting my life together. Yeah we appreciate the sacrifice though because we've had many conversations and I'm just like I think me as a person when I first started I think our prices were quite low quite affordable but I think because I love what I do and I wanted to see people win I was like let me just do this and then eventually the price will go up because of the value as well that we provide so yeah yeah the price has definitely gone up yeah definitely but once again because of I guess the foundations you've helped me to accomplish it now means that we can make it work so yeah it's all good what's actually like keeping somebody like me organized Lord it's actually really fun you know it's fun but with any job I think you obviously can be quite stressful I think it's stressful in the sense of we manage loads of people I think we have probably around nine that we manage at the moment and obviously we have a team that we manage as well but I think because of the foundation and the team that supports me it's quite easy and for me I love more like I'm easy at multitasking so my brain is like everywhere so it's easy for me to manage someone else multiple people basically and I think massively my team has supported so much and I think without them I wouldn't be where I am now so I'm so great for them but the systems that we have in place so whether it's the meetings that we have on a Monday morning or Tuesday or Thursday morning as well whether it's the Telegram WhatsApp groups and the Slack all of that stuff that we have I think those heavily help help us to manage our clients yeah so I think when I started the role that I have now with impact on urban health that's when we started to do like twice a week we'll now meet quite early in the morning so before I even start my my day job like I'll just check in with you in the morning make sure that there are no like crashes or anything that leaves my attention it's kind of like for the most part I can leave you to it and everything else gets handled yeah because yeah like a lot of people want to know like how do I manage to have a full-time job yeah you do a lot honestly other stuff that I do yeah and it really is because I haven't had to consider my diary myself for more than a year at this point yeah like even you'll even get to the point of you're planning my travel time so I've got no excuse to be late or even more so if it's an impossible travel time it could I need to be in tea places too quickly you arrange like taxis or whatever it might be so it really is just knowing that that side of my life is handled even my lunch breaks are like scheduled for me yeah even though sometimes you don't take them they're there in my diary at least if it's up to me if I choose to make myself suffer are there any other practical things that you would recommend people can think about if let's say they want to be a PA or for somebody or they're an entrepreneur they want to be more organized are they never kind of strategies or tactics that people could think about or do I think probably having one day where you can like do admin or focus on what you want to do for the day so maybe maybe on a Sunday or the Saturday whenever it's best for you planning out your week or the day the night before basically I think that kind of gets you ahead of the day and I think if someone wants to do administration or be a PA I think it's about just organizing your time getting whether it's volunteering doing administration in that area we take on a lot of interns as well which is quite helpful and try and train them up as much as possible so that they can have the skills whether it's time management whether it's administration skills or social media etc yeah so you're saying that if somebody wanted to get a start then doing an internship with you right now is an option not right now not right now but with other companies basically I'm sure there's opportunities there available but yeah okay so obviously we've been that you've been my PA for a while but we've also built a friendship over the years if you've forced me to buy you stuff for Christmas and stuff like Christmas I don't even celebrate Christmas I feel so funny even my birthday your birthday and things like that but obviously our relationship is really great but I know it's not always that easy with clients sometimes how have you been able to build like healthy relationship not relationships boundaries with your clients that you have and it's funny because most of my clients are actually friends or people that I know I think when we come to boundaries I think obviously in terms of like the timing so obviously we work Monday to Thursdays nine to six and we kind of stay within that I know that some clients try to push those but we kind of like you know it's not going to work but I think because there's certain things in place and they know that this is a professional relationship but also a personal relationship so we there's just a way we just make it work I don't know how to like describe it but just we just make it work and obviously if there's any issues I can like come to you or whoever it is and be like this is the issue can resolve it we are very quick at resolving things which is quite good um yeah so do you find that or what do you do rather when people are trying to push those boundaries so how how do you deal with that it's just about having a conversation if even though it's difficult or can be hard at times it's just all about literally having a conversation and hoping for the best outcome um and I think because my clients know that I try my best to like I have a good heart um and they know that I have a good heart so anything that happens it's like I'm not trying to do it maliciously or anything like that or they're not trying I don't think that they're trying to do it to me either so it's just about okay this is what's happened how can we resolve this basically and get to the other end and if you can't resolve it then at least we've aired out what's going on and we kind of hopefully can move from there and I think what you said around having a good heart is probably the keep biggest key for me is because things have gone wrong like many things have gone wrong which will happen when you of course we're humans yeah like you're humans we've worked together for like how many years and we're normally doing like high stakes and lots of stuff at the same time so things will things will go wrong but the reason why this has worked is because I have 100% confidence that it's if it happened it's a genuine mistake yeah it's not incompetence it's not you being lazy it's not you trying to sabotage etc are like so I think the character of somebody like yourself is so key in that relationship yeah um especially because I essentially have to let you into every aspect of my life every aspect and I think some people quite scared of that as well because with one of my clients I was like do you trust me like do you like give me what I need so that I can do what I can do and um yeah I think of course if you're sharing passwords all of this stuff of course you're going to be a bit weary and and be like what's happening but I think the more that we show you know what we're here we're behind you want you to win um we appreciate you and value like the things that you're doing and we obviously showed up for our character I think that's when you obviously can be more trusting of us um and release what needs to be done but obviously your business and everything you do is your baby so of course you're going to be protective right and I'll say even for me like yes you're key to my business but you do also because my business takes up so much of my life you are fully like integrated into so many elements of my personal life as well so because you literally can see my entire diary you know any moment in time um you can see basically every email that I've ever received uh now you've got cards to the company as well so not going to spend the money though but you know but it's like if um if someone's not able to have that level of trust in their PA then I feel like they're only going to get such a small benefit of the service in that regard and obviously that comes with years that comes with like trusting the person and going seeing that you know what from my actions I've shown that um I want to support you I've shown that you can trust me so it makes obviously people more comfortable in that sense so yeah how would you describe our working relationship how would I describe it oh that's an interesting question um how would I describe the I think it's a the relationship it's like very friendly but also professional at the same time so even though the I feel like because of the person you are Claude I feel like it's easy to be like you know Claude today I'm not really feeling that great and you'll be like okay Shanah what do you need and I'm like okay um maybe I can like take a break or maybe get someone else on my team to manage stuff etc etc I think because of that relationship it makes it easier to like want to work for you and want to support you so it's very friendly but also professional I don't know if that's the best way of describing it but I love our working relationship yeah and obviously like we said it's it's taking time to get there yeah but what else could somebody do to build a good relationship with their with their PA or their client I think it's just um getting to know them knowing their likes their dislikes um even down to like their love language and stuff like that I think those stuff are really important um and we have like like almost like profiles on our clients in terms of like the restaurants that they want they like to go to and different things like that so that helps us to know people quite well and having those conversations like those meetings that we have allowed me to understand the type of person that you are like are you a morning person not a morning person I think those need to be considered in the relationship yeah um and being I guess that willingness to change because yeah as you know I did not start off as a morning person of course we had to kind of force that Claude you know you have to wake up early now yeah that was a battle so I think I was spoken about in people's episodes how and now I have to be up from like four five o'clock and it's a hundred percent you that's um that's got us there yeah um what would you say is a difference between a PA and a virtual assistant and actually would you call yourself a PA or virtual assistant actually in in the relationship that you have with me so the relationship I have with you I think it's more of a PA role um only because we I think we started off the event side so the difference between a PA and a VA is just like the PA is more hands-on they come in person they do things in person whereas a VA is solely offline and they don't really do much in-person work and it's interesting because even though we say we're a VA company most of our clients we actually do in-person work for which is quite interesting but obviously when it comes to like in-person work we obviously charge for like travel and stuff like that most cases um but yeah I think the main difference is the VA is online mostly and then obviously the PA do in-person work when you've had relationships that haven't worked out of clients like why has that been of course you would bring up this question why has that been I think I think sometimes people put PAs on like a high pedestal um and I feel like if you haven't built that relationship or if you've done work yourself and you're just like this is how I do it etc and it's very early in the relationship and you haven't given me time to like understand your business understand how you work then I think that's sometimes where it kind of fails a bit um but I think I try to to tell the clients you know what this is what try to like update them as much as possible to be like this is what we can do this is when we're gonna do it etc and also we're quite flexible in communication so people can call me they can message me at any time and we kind of kind of get things going from there so it's because just the high expectations that were just there from the offset and because we didn't meet them so quickly it kind of break down the relationship whereas they should probably give us more time to understand them a little better yeah um because I can say from my side because I was just crap at it I had no as long as he was better than me yeah which was a low bar to cross then he was always going to be fantastic and not only have you been able to be better than I have been you've taken its levels I would never imagine of being I hope you're enjoying today's episode if you are please make sure you subscribe to us on youtube or whatever platform you're listening to this podcast on don't forget to like this video as well but going back to when it doesn't work do you have any examples of situations where so don't like obviously don't give names yeah I guess more the situations of this is why that didn't work out of this client um I don't really think of examples at the top of my head but I think it's more of the facts of they they've probably been doing the work for a long time and now handed it over to someone else and probably the standards is not as they would have expected but like I said you can't you have to give the person time to like understand the relationship understand what you want them to do in order for them to meet that standards basically um and I feel like I go above and beyond for like almost all of my clients I say almost all all of my clients so when it feels as though quote unquote I'm not good enough then it kind of makes me feel like why am I stressing myself to do all of this stuff and you're not really appreciating it um and I think once that that side is crossed where I feel like I'm not good enough then I'm just like okay this this can't work yeah I think it's very easy for people to forget that you are very much so human as well exactly and I feel like people actually forget and some of my clients is just like they're like oh why are you making mistakes or why are you doing this I'm just like clearly there's something going on with me that's what allowed me to make those mistakes or there's just something happening so maybe you should just like think more about what you're saying and how you're saying it to me um but yeah we always try to rectify if there's any mistakes and we don't make a lot of mistakes just so you know we don't um but we always try very quick on rectifying things um even if for example someone even messaged me today I was like oh I don't think this person received this email and I'm like okay that's weird so obviously quickly called up one of my team members obviously I wasn't on my laptop and say can you rectify this even though it's a Friday normally we don't work on this day but I just want to get things sorted as quick as possible so yeah never lie down I think on that human side you you've got your own personal life you've got all the things that you you're doing for yourself what's it like managing both your own life and the life of somebody else it's interesting it's very interesting but I think because my life is already organized it's then easy for me to manage someone else's life but I think because of the systems like I said because all the systems we have in place it's very easy um to just like slot in and be like okay I need to organize this I need to do this so it's very much routine now with majority of our clients because we've been working some of our clients for a while now so I think it's very much routine because I feel like sometimes my life can be a bit chaotic but because my business is organized it kind of makes it easy and obviously my team like massively my team helps so much and I can literally be like calling them or be on zoom call with them to get things up to speeds or wherever it is basically and they thank god and now I can take breaks because I feel like before I didn't take much breaks before so yeah yeah so who is shana outside of being a pa who am I outside of being a pa um it's interesting that's an interesting question I think I am a Christian first and foremost so I go to church and I worship god um I am someone that loves like just relaxing and chilling so it's funny because my I feel like my business is very like much really hectic but also like relaxing but also at the same time it's hard for me to pause sometimes and like not do anything like I like to be active um and doing things like that basically so I would just say just a like a lover of life just love to enjoy myself um relaxing yeah basically so the role of being a good pa what means that you in many ways you are serving people like in quite a direct way yeah is that a sacrifice for you oh very much so yeah very much so I think time sacrifice um yeah I feel like sometimes it because of how much I put into it it can have an effect on my body sometimes so I try to like obviously get massages and stuff like that to like distress also therapy and counseling has helped massively and obviously my support system whether it's my family and my friends so yeah yeah how have you been able to cultivate that the support around you like is there anything that you do in particular to make sure that you're being fed to the top so you can look after other people yeah I think because a lot of people pour into me so whenever there's like anything going wrong or just in general I can there's people that can corner upon and be like today's not a good day can you help can you support um can I meet up with you etc and people tend to like want to support and and help as much as possible and like I said my team really help as well so whether it's I need to take a break they do what they need to do and help things to keep running um yeah so you've spoken about your team quite a few times in terms of like how much they've been supportive of but I've also known that it hasn't always been easy to build a team definitely has it what's it like to be a leader and build your own company in that way um I love it I love working for myself I love having people um underneath me and also supporting me as well um it can be an interesting dynamic sometimes sometimes when I feel like I have very high standards which is so funny um but I have very high standards when it comes to admin and making sure that my clients are supported as much as possible so um but I'm also like the human aspect so if someone needs a break or someone needs to take time off whatever it is I'm always like supportive of that um and also yeah it's really easy having that team behind me um because like you said it wasn't easy from the start so we've had people that intern and etc but once you find the right people and I believe we have the right people now it's um much easy to work with them basically okay and obviously not everybody so if you ask me to come and be a PA for your path of fact I'm crap at admin like but there are people who are potentially good or do someone who comes to be organised etc do you have to take them through a lot of training or did you have to do training yourself even yeah I think overall the experience that I've had has provided the training so like I said I was doing admin before whether it's in my church whether it's I did a placement year for uni so it was a student and course assistant so I was able to train up myself in that um I also worked with a wedding company so that's helped me massively um in that area um but yeah training is important it was when you worked for the wedding company was that you like almost doing an internship for yourself uh yeah basically yeah yeah and do you still do things like weddings so you still involved in that industry or you moved away no weddings are too stressful for me weddings are way too stressful for me I don't remember when I stopped but yeah they're way too stressful for me yeah oh no do you ever come across people and say to yourself this person really needs a PA uh yeah I do I do I think from the example of you um but just in general I do see people like yeah you need a PA but I think sometimes it's very difficult in terms of like affordability and people have been able to afford it so I think that's when it's a bit difficult because people like I want a PA then when I tell them my price sometimes they'll be like maybe not it really is a chicken and egg from my point of view yeah it's like it's an investment you need to make to be able to make more money yeah because I can say I reached my limits many like maybe 25 percent 20 percent of where we are now maybe even less than that in all honesty so it's kind of like if I didn't have your support I was never going to be able to make enough money to be able to afford you but so that's why like I said at the upfront I had to make that sacrifice because I knew it was going to be worth it and I think when I first started my business it was quite easy for the clients that I was taking on because obviously our rates were quite low until we decided to pick it up again um so I would say that um yeah I feel like you guys came in at the right time yourself and also the people that I worked with at the beginning they came in at the right time so yeah why would you say having a PA is actually important we save your life literally we save your life and we help you massively um I think even in terms of like income being organized um just having someone that's in your corner so knowing that someone's there and you know I can call up on Shana or Shana can do this um and I feel like I appreciate like the whole person as well so making sure that my clients are happy they're well etc etc is quite helpful um for them yeah I think the point you just said around knowing someone is in your corner yeah that's game changing because yeah like I said like one point I had a team of like 20 plus people and then it went down to just me and then then it was just me and you yeah and that that was the reality for two three years pretty much like people come in gone etc but knowing that you've always been there yeah and knowing that no matter basically what happened like your yourself your team your company is always going to be that backbone for me yeah it gives you so much confidence to be able to go out and try new things so yeah it's a consistency I think someone even reminded me of that this week that is the fact I've been consistent always showing up um yeah and I think people value that as well and they need it as well obviously it's as an entrepreneur I can it's almost easy to justify that investment of get a PA because it's going to help me with my business it's going to help me make more money in that regard but I will say that's almost a limitation of just thinking what a PA can do for your life at what sort of point do you think is just the level where people should be thinking maybe a PA might be a good investment for me I think if you're feeling overwhelmed with the amount of things that you need to do whether it's your business or your personal life then yeah definitely consider a PA and even if you just want to be more organized so I've had clients like that I've been like one off they're just like Shana just need to organize my life a bit um and we'll literally just review their calendar what they do on a day and then try and organize that and then they literally go off and do what they want to do then and don't necessarily bring on a PA but they just want to organize themselves a bit so yeah if you're feeling overwhelmed um or you just want to be a little more organized then definitely consider getting a PA or a VA so yeah okay so even if like you had a a nine to five and that's all you're doing yeah that's still yeah we have clients that do have nine to fives um and we just help them with their personal lives whether it's I need to organize um insurance for my car or I need to get something picked up or we've had clients where they're like Shana I've got a delivery coming today can you come to my house and work from my house so that I can go to work etc we've done various different things so yeah okay okay what do you say has been the biggest transformation you've seen in the client so before they started working if you do was like this by the time they were done they were like that I think the biggest transformation is I think you would be probably one of the biggest transformation I think you definitely would be one of the biggest transformations I think um going from like not being as organized because I think now you literally go in the inbox sometimes or respond to emails or stuff like that whereas before you'll never like no this is your area you do what you're doing um so yeah I think you're probably one of them that is like Shana handle this basically and then I think now you've got to say you're not Shana actually I can actually do this so you do what you need to do um and I think that's kind of helps in the sense of like taking breaks and stuff whereas before it's like oh my clients really need me I need to be here how can I take a break kind of thing but now that I have a team to support and do that and also some of my clients have like progress in a way you know it's Shana I can handle it so I can do this do what you need to do um I think that's what the change has been so them being even more organized than they was from the beginning um and it's funny I'll say on my side yes I've become better at like admin and think that nature but I realized I always had the ability but what when you're overwhelmed with so many things you just don't have the headspace yeah so and it's also nice to know that I don't have to do it exactly so it's like great jump on do a few emails here respond to a few things here or I'm going to respond to this email because this needs to be done right now and it's my personal touch but the other 99 emails I can do though yeah um and I would say it's 100 made me a better entrepreneur better executive in my day job and that's an all-round just more organized person which I would say probably makes me a better human being to people in my life yeah definitely and I think the skills we have is like really invaluable so having those meet so most of my clients we have those regular meetings that we can like check in and see how things are going all progressive things and they really value just like I said having that person in their corner where you know I can call up on Shana I can message Shana and you know that things are going to get done when they need to get done so yeah I'll say for me as well having because part of our relationship I don't know if you like this or other clients but you do bully me a little bit um but in a good way because you bully me to get things done yeah good for me yeah um because when you're your own boss you can very much so go without any accountability whatever like if I'm not going to respond to my invoices or whatever then so what but it's almost like you know that this is going to be good for me it's going to help me make more money it's going to make me look good or whatever so when there's a task like that that's been lingering for a while like you remind me almost every every other day until it gets daily until it becomes almost hourly to the point like you know what let me just do it yeah accountability is so important though and I love the fact that we can be accountable to our clients and get things done because at the end of the day this is where you get your money from this is where you kind of want to progress and meet your goals um and most of my clients when they do see my messages I was like oh my gosh Shana's messaging me and that means I need to pull up my socks I need to do something and I like that about um the way we work and stuff because at the end of the day if stuff are not being done then you come back to us and you're frustrated at us because we haven't done what you want us to do but I'm just like but I've been waiting for you and I know that because our clients are doing 101 things I have to be on your case I have to be calling your phone you be looking at some of my clients I call them like more than once throughout the day and sometimes when I call them we're like I'm so sorry for calling you again but I had to call you so yeah no doubt and I am grateful that for that accountability like I think in general can't really sucks nobody likes the experience of it but the results that everything's is it's it's life changing exactly so probably moving on to the last question for me now is you've been doing this for a while and I know you have certain dreams and aspirations but for those that don't know what does career progression as a PA look like so um some people might actually just start off as a PA and like not actually have a business but then obviously you can progress into a business like mine and also you have obviously can have a team behind you that's supporting you so whether you're training them to become a PA's or hiring other VAs under your company I think that's quite important I would love to form my business to get to a point where it runs on its own and I'm like sitting down and be like okay yeah this is great and probably even maybe doing another business or organizing other things um I think that would be quite helpful uh yeah and just also bringing on more clients and supporting more people yeah so in essence the future if you want to take PA in as is that even a term PA in if you're gonna take being a personal assistant to next level then you do need to begin to think like an entrepreneur yourself and with that said then because you work with so many entrepreneurs do you learn anything from them yeah some of them the way they work um how they how they even write emails themselves because obviously I'm good at writing emails but then some of the way they word it and stuff is quite interesting I'm like okay this is interesting might take this for myself so even in that sense um and even just like the many different businesses that they run and the way that they think I think that's definitely something that's helped in running my own business as well okay if you had to give a piece of advice to let's say firstly a struggling entrepreneur and then somebody that wanted to go into be a PA what would that be um I would say get as much training as possible um if you want to be a PA um and like internships will are definitely important if there's any that are out there for you and I think anybody that's like struggling as an entrepreneur invest in a PA definitely um it can it can also be like I don't know maybe your friend can help out for a time and obviously if they can't fully do that for you then obviously then hire someone else um there's places like um Upwork Fiverr that offer services like this as well um and obviously our company as well if you want to work with us we're happy to bring you on board so yeah where can they find out about your business so our website is arcshanronco.uk all right then thank you so much for being on here today Shana thank you for having me but more so than being on the podcast for legit and midi change in my life we appreciate you Claude thank you for tuning in to today's episode we release a new episode every sunday so make sure that you subscribe and follow us so that you never miss out if you'd like some more inspiration why you wait for the next new episode then check out the recommendation above don't forget to follow us on social media and you can send us a question or a dilemma that you'd like us to answer on the podcast this is Claude Williams even watching behind the dreams and we look forward to seeing you at the next Dream Nation event