 So, good evening and welcome to the select board meeting of November 8, 2017. It's a joint meeting with the Amherst Housing Authority to appoint a new member to replace someone who has resigned their position, is currently 538 for our starting time here. A few things to start with, I'll outline the process we're going to follow just so everybody's aware of what we're going to do. What's that? Do we call our meeting to order? You probably could, since you posted it. So, I would call the meeting of the Amherst Housing Authority to order at 538. There you go. That'll work. Okay. So, there's a few process things we've fortunately or unfortunately done this a couple of times in the last year, so we're a little more familiar. But nonetheless, the way in which we go about this is there's a whole process we go through as far as knowing about a vacancy, making notice publicly of that, asking for letters of interest, which you folks have supplied to us. We were hoping to have a meeting earlier. We couldn't do that, so now we're having it tonight. The other thing I will mention at this point before we get into the actual nitty gritty of sort of how the order of events is going to happen is the following. Ms. Krueger has the distinct pleasure, I guess, of serving on both the Select Board and the Housing Authority. We checked with the legal counsel. She actually does get two votes tonight. And so, the majority will be out of nine, and she gets to count twice. So, she could vote to the same, to different, whichever she chooses to do, but she does get two votes. And majority will be the deciding factor, and I'll get into that in a minute. So, first we'll start out, and we'll do introductions in a moment, but I'll talk about process for a second. This is filling a resignation. You will have the position until the election in March. You're certainly eligible to run for election at that point. If you do choose to run, you will not be listed as an incumbent on the ballot. You don't get the privilege of being an incumbent in that way. The election that happens in March will fill the position for the remainder of the term. So, that will go until Mr. Jessup, I believe, was who had resigned to seat. His position on the AHA runs until March of 2019. So, you get the pleasure of running and then running again a year later. So, that's the nitty-gritty of that particular process of how long you'll hold this particular, and then if you run for election, how long you'll hold that one before the reelection cycle starts. So, we'll start. We'll have each of you give an opening statement of two minutes each. I will keep time, not super strictly. There's not a big warning bell. It's going to go off. I'm going to try to keep an eye on the time, but not be too rigid about that. And then we will go through each of the members of the boards and have them ask you a question, and we'll have each of you answer. And so, if you open the question, and she does the second, then when the next question, we'll reverse those. So, we'll go back and forth in that regard. Your answers will be two minutes in length. At the end of the time, you'll each get a minute to do a closing statement. We do have to do the vote in front of you in public with a roll call. And I will say now, it's very uncomfortable for us. So, just because one of us does or doesn't vote for you, don't take it personally in any way, shape, or form, we often have very good candidates for this, and we have to make a choice. And so, the majority for being selected will be five out of nine votes. So, there are five on the select board and four on the housing authority, and so, you'll need five to get that, and we'll record those full votes. As far as how we'll go through our questioning and our voting, I believe what we'll do, we'll alternate between select board and housing authority. I'm going to question asking. I think I'm going to do a reverse alphabetical order just for a change of pace. As far as voting, I'll do in alphabetical order. So, we'll go reverse. And so, we'll hopscotch back and forth between select board and housing authority membership as far as asking questions, and then we'll reverse that when we ask for roll call votes. So, any other details? Yes, please. So, I was simply going to suggest that, unlike the last time when we had a whole lot of candidates, we had to time and we asked the legal women voters to come in and help us with that. I'm going to ask if Mr. Buckleman, since he doesn't cast a vote, if he could be our timer for us. And maybe, I don't know if we should have you in the middle or something, so we're not going to wave a big red thing in front of you that says stop. But just, you know, if he starts to wave at you, it's probably time to wrap it up. I guess it's maybe the best way to do that. We won't... Five seconds left. So, two minutes for opening remarks, two minutes to answer questions, and then the closing remarks are a minute each. Any other questions by anybody on either board as far as before we get started? Anything procedurally we need to mention before we get going? So, in the very unscientific way, I will pick a number. And one of you will be between one and ten. And the closer of you two to it will go first as far as opening remarks. And that'll start us off. So, I've got a number in mind. What number would you pick? Seven. Seven is closer to the number I picked, which is eight, so you get the pleasure of going first. So, we'll have you give an opening remark for two minutes, and we'll have him, I guess I should introduce you, since I haven't said your names. And of course, do I have them handy? Here. But it's... Thank you. So, it's David Williams and Barbara. Barbara Steinmetz, right? Alright, so Ms. Steinmetz, if you would be so kind, just give us your opening remarks. I'd like to thank both the board, the select board, and the AHA board for allowing me to interview for this position. I think the most important thing to me as far as housing goes is I'd like to see everything stay up to par and maybe get some more affordable housing in the Amherst community. And also, I'd like to see more programs to get the tenants more aware of handling their finances and handling their nutrition and doing that the best way they can and using their money to the best of their ability. I've lived at Ann Wailand for 10 years now, and I've been pretty active in the community. I've also been an officer for the Ann Wailand Tenants Organization. I've overseen techniques that the tenants organization put on. Also, holiday parties and decorating the building for the holidays helped weekly coffee hours to discuss concerns of the tenants, and exercise class for tenants. I have volunteered in the office at AHA, which has given me insight into the AHA programs. Sorry, I'm a nurse right here. Take your time. Just to help out a little. Last year I was on the search committee to build a position as the executive director. I very much enjoyed it working with the great of the board members on that committee. Thank you. Mr. Williams, if you would be so kind. First of all, I want to say thanks very much to the select board and also the housing authority for making adjustments in your schedule to accommodate an interview with me. I am very thankful for that. My presence here tonight is the presence of an indication of my interest of the town of Amherst. I have lived here, my family and I have lived here in Amherst for 21 years. I'm a retired educator, as indicated in my letter. My wife just recently retired from the University of Massachusetts. I have one son who graduated from Amherst High School. And I believe that I have the skill and maybe understanding of some of the major issues that we are confronted with as a country, society, not only in Amherst with affordable housing. Affordable housing is a challenged nation-wide issue that I feel that needs additional attention to address the broader issue of affordable housing. I've had experiences in housing not on the side of affordable but the side of being rejected as an African American male, young male right out of college attempting to secure housing for my family and had to deal with the homes and that but I survived. Thank you. So again, at this point we'll take questions from each of the members in turn. Each of you will answer. Since you started that, then he'll answer the first question. The responses are two minutes each. As I indicated, I was going to go reverse alphabetical order with questions and then we'll go alphabetical order when we vote just to make it nice and complex. Ms. Kruger, from an order of questions standpoint, since she's sitting with you, I'll have you be in that group which makes you alphabetically last interestingly enough. But that means that the first question is Mr. Walts to ask. Thank you both for coming here and for your interest. I think we're very fortunate here at Amherst to have civically active citizens who are concerned about social issues and social justice and good policy and people being involved in government so that there are probably lots of people who would like to do this. You two came forward. What's your contribution distinctive that is what can you bring to this task that almost no one else can? Well, I will bring to the board I think number one, a listening ear to find out more about the challenges that we are confronted with here in the town of Amherst. I think that I have will bring also skills, work with a number of non-profits throughout my professional career, the boards that I have served on and having to deal with some of the issues that we are confronted with with the housing authority and providing affordable housing for low income disadvantaged individuals. I have worked in that arena I think a pretty good handle on understanding the challenges that individuals have when they are confronted with issues of this nature. I have the experience of working with city officials as we have addressed issues of housing in several occasions whether it is for affordable housing or housing for students. I have worked with that and understand some of the process. I don't understand all of it but I understand some of it. Thank you. I think one of the important things is that I'm a tenant and it gives me a good handle on what goes on as far as living in the affordable housing. I also work for the office as a volunteer and have a pretty good handle on how things are handed down and sited in the office. I think it's really, really important that we put more programs available to people and I would be willing to do this to help them financially and with other issues to make their communities better. Thank you. Our next question will come from this Kruger and you will answer first. I've written it down so it's not checking my mail but reading my question. Sometimes a tenant or an applicant for tenancy comes before the Amherst Housing Authority Board of Commissioners and wants the board to remedy their issue. Sometimes they're angry and upset or bring a lot of emotion to the issue and that might be understandable. How would you handle an occurrence like the one I'm describing? First of all, I think we should make sure that it's the proper tenant that's getting upset about things because tenants have to stand up for their own rights. They can't expect other people to do it for them and very often other people want to do it for them so I think that needs to be discussed and people need to be made aware of that and the best thing you can do is to try to let them calm down and if they don't do that say you're going to have to wait and talk about it in another meeting when things are better and in most situations that I've seen it's really a case of the wrong person speaking about the wrong situation so that needs to be clarified and we have to be careful of what we say to tenants who can't be too flippant with them because that just irritates them more and gets them more riled up and sometimes they can't see why there are certain rules and regulations that everyone has to follow in order to keep things orderly and I think that's the important thing to point out to them they need to understand that and we need to calm them down and just slow the whole situation down Thank you I think for me number one if the person is coming in angry upset try to encourage them to settle down yes I will listen to you but you need to calm down and present your situation to me or to the board so that we get a clear understanding of what it is what your challenges are whatever is going on and I think communication is key being able to listen to one even when they are angry you need to be sure that you are listening paying attention to what is being said because there may be another message in the conversation that you need to hear that you may need to address that the individual may be overlooking or really not bringing to you the issue that he or she should bring to you so listen and communication Next up is Mr. Steinberg Well thank you very much both of you for being here and for your interest in our housing authority serving on the board serving on any board it's important that you work together effectively as a group but it's also important that each of you bring your own experiences and your own wisdom to the board so many times you will agree but there are times you may disagree and so what I'm going to ask you about is whether you have had any experience in the board or in some similar activity in the community here or elsewhere where there has been disagreement within a group that you work together on the usual basis and how you contributed to helping achieve the unified result and achieving peace in the group So you're going to start this one Well agreeing and disagreement is a part of the process as we move forward that everyone's not going to agree and support what is going on and in fact I would even begin to question if everything that is presented to me or to the board we all agree 100% I am looking for individuals to think about what you are saying what you are doing looking at the broader issues how will this affect what we are doing how will it affect others who may not even be involved and it's alright to disagree but we need to have that understanding that we are a board we have major decisions to make we are making decisions about one's life or livelihood so we need to look at the broader picture and we can agree to disagree and keep moving if it's in the best interest of what our challenges are that have been brought to us I think that probably with any board that is worth its weight we are going to be able to come to some kind of decision which might blend to both sides I don't quite know how to answer that okay so next up is Mr. Jefferson with his question who am I asking first Miss Steinmetz will be first okay my question to you is how are you going to deal with the tenants in the building they are going to come to you with problems that relate Mr. Jefferson authority have you thought about that oh yeah I would lean them towards coming to meetings board meetings and discussing what their problems are and take it from there I can't solve their problems alone I don't intend to what's that so Mr. Williams address that question as well as far as well the question if I understand the question would be somewhat difficult for me because if I heard the question correctly how are you going to deal with the tenants in the building when they come if you are on the board and you are living in the same facility that that I personally think it would be a challenge because the tenants will be expecting you to go beyond your role as a board member to be sure that everything is a-okay for them so I see it from where I sit I see it as a challenge now all right so next up is my question so I will so it'll be first to you and to I'll sort of build on that as well so separate from you know particular tenant questions that come before you are there any particular things that any particular either actions programming etc that you think the housing authority should be taking on as part of their role and responsibility as far as a next step that you haven't seen them doing that you think they should be doing I don't think I can give a good answer to that because although I have observed some of the activities that have been taking place here in the town of Amherst I have not been that involved I saw something in the newspaper maybe a month ago that really was a red flag came up for me involved in the housing authority when I read an article about someone who built apartments here in the city and there were supposed to be X number of apartments available for affordable housing but somehow or another they were rented out and the owner now trying to ask people to move out of that I saw that and I read it twice I said how does this happen something is wrong somewhere particular things you think the board should be doing it isn't currently either programming or things they should be looking into or next steps they should be taking anything of that sort what do you see as a direction or a new idea that they might want to take up as a topic the office is right there everything happens right there but all the people at the other sites don't tend to get what we get and I think it's important that they do get that I think this presidential apartment is meaningless and it shouldn't be all accountable for next is Mr. McCartney boards like this can easily just go through the motions of the regular transactional business that has to happen and spend plenty of time just getting that done task in itself in your experience to what extent have you seen groups of people go beyond just that and be able to really move an organization in a new direction and I ask that because we're in a time of real budget restraints there's a lot of need out there we have a lot of things that demand attention just keeping the ship afloat but if we're to go in a new direction and bring something additional we're going to have to pull that off what in your experience tells you how boards or groups of people can do that I'm addressing you first funds available for for certain programs and it's not a lot of money but there's some there and I think it should use the advantage of attendance as far as going forward and getting more housing and that kind of issue I guess everything is pretty tight right now and there really isn't a whole lot that people can do but I do think that if we made the effort things can be done pretty inexpensively and they can be very helpful to the tenants I think the issue that you're raising though beyond you have a town issue that's from the new year from the top if you're going to bring about change if the town of Amherst decide that affordable housing is an issue that we need to address or give more attention to then the town need to get behind or get in front and need to be sure that the select board and also housing authority have the support and work with us to get this done this is going through a transformation I would say when you look at what is happening Amherst in the last 10 years in terms of housing you look at what is happening downtown then you look at the condominiums and apartments that that's being discussed to be built there when you look over by Dono's Pizza the apartments to be built okay because the apartment that is happening apartments will be in Amherst those are areas if we're looking at building this this is a university town housing will always be a challenge because you have college students 20, 25,000 college students here but we also need to remember we have a town that we need to address when those students go home in the summer when we're here and some folks are there or they're gone but we'd love to see them come back in September because there will be a kindly in everything you have to decide the city, the town have to decide how you want to move forward and not just say well, when you get to that no, you can't do that Ms. Brewer I'm going to speak I'm going to speak first assuming you've attended at least one regular posted meeting of the Amherst Housing Authority Board of Commissioners so you've seen them in action I know you can't watch them on TV like you can a lot of other things I'd like to get a sense of if you've done that some reflections you have on that in particular, having seen that or not as the case may be how you view the Board's role I know there was a lengthy description provided online before you guys applied about things the Board does but perhaps a little reflecting and I was really glad Mr. Burkhard asked this there are just things that have to be done there's paperwork that has to be signed there are agreements that you have to understand you have to understand the rules behind so that you can agree that those rules have been met but beyond the paperwork issues how do you view the Amherst Housing Authority not the Housing Authority the employees but the Board's role in terms of interacting with employees and interacting with tenants and also interacting with the larger community where does the Board get into doing all of that or is their job to just sit there and sign up so that bills can get paid and agreements made how do you envision that happening based both on your own Fed and what you saw when you watched the meetings Well you're talking about a Board versus the kind that you're working with and the Board is to be here to provide leadership and support and I would expect in this case as we move forward the Board needs to decide what it's south as a Board the goals of the Board and in sending the goals to the Board we need to be set jointly with whatever organizations are within the the various tenants or organizations that we have to be sure that we are I would say that the agenda is not our agenda we are carrying forth an agenda for those individuals who are living in the housing that the city state I'm sorry about that town state or government owned housing we need to be sure that we are working for if you want to say our clients because they are the clients and there are expecting us to see that everything move forward and as a Board we need to be sure that the attention is given to that the planning is given to that the understanding of the needs and concerns of individuals who live in the housing I look in reading the annual report for March last year's annual report I was surprised to see that the waiting list of the number of individuals who are waiting for housing for years and they've been waiting on housing and the question someone needs to be asking is why why such a large number what are we doing as a town to reduce that number I don't know whether the numbers have reduced each year but it doesn't look that way just reading the March the 2016 report that was done in March I think that one of the important things that needs to be brought to the front here is the amount of housing that's needed the lists of people that need to be in housing are horrendously long and I see it could become even more of a problem now that we're sanctuaries also it seems like the Board gets through the regular stuff they do every month and there isn't that much time for the tenants or for talking about new programs and I think that should be taken into consideration everybody wants to stay at readings longer longer I do think that's an important thing and sometimes there's nothing that the Board itself can do because the tenants are just out of control you have to let go of that that's the only way you're going to get by it and people just even people with nothing think they're entitled so it can be a situation where you can't really calm it down you just have to let go of it but the important thing is that we have more housing and we have more programs thank you so next up is Boutele kind of sort of touched on some of the issues with the question so I'm looking for just a little bit more detail that much so my question and I'm starting with Mr. Williams I believe okay I apologize what are some issues in or with affordable housing that you see and how would you suggest approaching them issues that I see with affordable housing I think a really important thing that people don't understand and really it should be brought to the forefront is that there is a certain process that you go through to get into housing people will say oh I've been waiting for housing for so and so and so on and so and so just fill out an application and they got through well that's not the case usually I mean I've never seen that happen and only if it's an emergency would it happen I think that's one of the biggies we need to let the tenants know that there are definitely certain paths we have to put down to get certain things accomplished and it's the same for everyone Mr. Williams if I heard the statement correctly it's process well what are the policies and procedures that's what we need to follow the policies and procedures are not set for this group of people or that group of people this is the way we operate and we are expecting everyone to follow the procedures and the housing authority if it's our response the housing authority's responsibility to see that that happen this is we have to treat people fairly and people need to understand it and we need to be able to explain to someone why something happened the way that it happened and it didn't happen because I happen to have known David Williams so I'm in it's not about that so we've each gotten to ask our question so each of you will get an opportunity for a one minute closing remark now I'm trying to have a question I believe that's right so Mr. Williams will get one minute for a closing remark and she will get one minute for a closing remark so if you'd like to sum up in my remarks I would say to you that as I have outlined in my letter of application I believe that I will bring to this position experience in working with I was in nonprofits I'll just put it that way I haven't worked in city government so town government I'm not going to say that but working in nonprofits where you're having to deal with some of the issues that are confronted by the housing authority when you think in terms of united way when you think in terms of the urban league and those organizations that I have been involved with and have been involved with them for the last 40 years everywhere that I have lived I have decided that I need to give back to the community I have been blessed as an individual to be able to move up the ladder because I didn't start at the top of the ladder I started down there and I was able to through my education and I'm willing to give back to citizens of the town of Amherst and work to bring about a change and to be sure that Amherst housing authority is second to none Thank you Mr. Amitz Thank you for your time and consideration I assure you that if I am here with the opportunity to work on the AHA board I will do my best to bring tenants and board members together working for the betterment of the Amers-Towson Authority Thank you So at this point we are at a point for a vote but is there any discussion or questions that we have for each other as the group of folks that have to make a decision does anyone need or want to have any other discussion before we take the vote I'm not seeing any hands so in that regard we will just take our votes I will do the reverse order in the way we ask the questions and so I'm just seeking your vote and you just clearly state your name and your vote I'll record that and then we'll Maybe this is the question I should have asked before you Do we get to articulate our thinking when we vote or is it something we should have some time to do first or just hope Our typical process is we do not do that then had situations where individual people making votes have gone ahead and given their thinking so it is entirely optional but we do not have a point of time for deliberation amongst each other if that was being requested but if you want to make a statement or just a vote there is no way of preventing people from taking their vote We're not going to come over and cover you up We hope this if you need to make a statement I would hope that it's not 45 minutes in length that would be my request but nonetheless I'm personally seeking sort of votes but if you need to sort of explain yourself that's perfect and fun and again I will remind the candidates really uncomfortable to have to do this in front of you again we appreciate both of you for putting yourself forward for this you know the nature of the voting is there's no gray scale here we did or we didn't so that's not a statement about your capability skill or willingness and we appreciate all of those things that you bring to this process for us so again I'm going to sort of reverse you when we ask the questions so let's say you get a vote first she does and then we'll go back and forth between the groups question I was just saying which we're in favor of we go down for one and then you go down for the other we'll just announce the person that you think that you would vote for okay so Jason Lee Buccini my vote would be for Mr. Williams okay so next will be Brewer my vote I also want to make another clarifying statement and as some of you might have noticed I've been updating our sheet as we go along as to things we should have included in terms of what we're doing because we've been doing it long enough that you think more of the things would be written down is that when we vote as we talked about at the very beginning in terms of the majority there were some people at one time when we did this who assumed that we would stop voting at a certain number and not everyone would cast a vote that's not true so please don't feel no one should feel pressured about that so my vote is cast for Mr. Williams and now Mr. Burkhardt my vote for Mr. Williams and my vote because I'm next is also for Mr. Williams and now it's Mr. Jefferson Mr. Williams and Mr. Steinberg and Ms. Krueger you get the luxury of two votes so I just I do want to I'm going to preface in my vote with I felt torn because I see some differences this often happens strengths with each candidate I've long hoped for a tenant on the Housing Authority Board on the other hand a strong voice and a helping move the organization on the board forward with certain skills so I am torn and I'm only I'm going to take one vote as a member of the Housing Authority and I'm going to and I am torn I'm going to vote for Mr. Williams and for my second vote because I'm very uncomfortable with two votes and it's kind of a fluke I'm going to abstain so I don't know how we record that but it's a vote and second vote is an abstention so that I don't double count so next is Mr. Wolf Mr. Williams alright so at this point we have seven votes for Mr. Williams which is above the five of nine necessary for the election to the open seat on the on the Housing Authority and so at this point I believe I need to make a sort of formal motion if I can find the right text on my sheet here alright I move by majority five roll call vote of which I just took to select David W. Williams a registered voter of the town of Amherst to perform the duties of a member of the Amherst Housing Authority until the next annual election scheduled for March 28th 2018 yes before anyone or it needs to be fixed no it needs to say majority I appreciate that was a cheat sheet for us but it needs to say that seven votes for cast and then we can record who did what yeah it should not say five that was just to help us out that was to help us understand what we were doing now we confused ourselves so move by majority roll call vote of eight to select and then the date's wrong it's March 27th 2018 thank you easy to mix those two so the 27th is actually the election day I guess right so is there a second for that slightly now a second a motion and a second we'll just take a voice vote at this point because the roll call vote has taken effect all those in favor please say aye aye unanimous of the motion motion is also recording the actual roll call vote which we took just a moment ago and I believe that concludes this small portion of our meeting and I thank you both again very very much for coming and putting yourselves out in front of us and letting us go through this process and I hope that you both are engaged with the housing authority both in the short term and in the long term and continue to advocate for affordable housing and the tenants who live in that affordable housing community thank you very much Mr. Slatter before the housing authority adjourns I'd just like to say I think the mechanics of this is the selected member will notify the down clerk and there's a notice and a squaring in process right associate well actually Mr. Backelman will make sure we'll be notified and I just want to say that there are other opportunities to be involved with the housing authority and the board and there's often things and I would want to encourage in this case Mr. Stein please stay involved with the board and I think you bring great value and there will be opportunities for you to participate thank you and just a further advertisement about mechanics so Mr. Backelman will tell Ms. Pupple and then you'll be able to get sworn in with the clerk as Ms. Krueger indicated so that you can go to your first meeting I don't of course there's some material you need to read ahead of time before you do that the other issue is that with the election coming up nomination papers will be available in a couple weeks for that and so for that next seat and so for everyone watching at home it'll be 50 signatures required because it's a townwide election and there'll be a due date that's usually early in February in terms of when that's due but it'll be a one year seat that's on the ballot and no other Housing Authority commissioners seats are up on that ballot thank you just really quickly since Ms. Trojan is here Executive Director of the Amherst Housing Authority perhaps you'd get together with a selected board member just next meeting date and some of the materials so that you have this opportunity and with that I'd entertain a motion to adjourn for the Amherst Housing Authority so moved second and they both did so pick your second and you couldn't see behind you so all those in favor of rejoining for the Amherst Housing Authority Union is for 631 if you're recording the time thank you all very much for coming and accommodating our schedule so appreciate that you're welcome to tell me that it's a great idea it's tough it's tough did you paint that one? right we did that one today so all we're doing okay it's logistical and so who sent me just you they put it for all of us right everybody's signed it's about the suspension I like that it's okay okay so it's brutal it is exactly that's okay yeah we're still on camera we're not okay nice to meet you and we'll be working together thank you thank you for doing this congratulations you guys are a tough group I had a really hard time thank you that's really good stuff yeah yeah I will we had yes it's miserable it's harder for me I had to read them off I thought I could just read them on my phone it turns out my phone was but I just choked because it was the first one Jen, Jen help me I was the only one who didn't need it I can do it at least it's hard yeah so are you ready I am going to seat the rest of the boards ready alright so we'll reconvene ourselves now after that brief recess I believe all we have is one well there are two other items technically on our agenda I don't think that there are any logistical issues related to tonight's meeting so I think that one will be dispensed with well you do have Mr. Steinberg might and the other is that we saw the housekeeping part of things in terms of the school committee moving articles so that feels like everything is scheduled for tonight but it's not is that okay so we did not know but some of us have since heard that there may be a motion to refer article 13 which is the first article that's up back to the town meeting coordinating committee and I didn't know if we felt the need to take a position on that or not I know sometimes I mean first of all it hasn't happened yet but secondly we that's one of the reasons we put this on our agenda so we can if we want to sometimes we have strong feelings about referral sometimes we don't if we wanted to it seems like you mentioned it well I think a motion that would allow us to take a position would be in order so if something were to make such a motion we could do that and consider whether or not we want to take a position on the referral if it comes up to be clear we would not recommend at this point the motion is not likely to be that we would recommend referral but instead that if to be if it were to be offered to write that down yes I move that if article 14 were to be 13 thank you so much I'm going to get this 14 that I crossed off if article 13 if someone makes the motion not the select board to refer article 13 to the town meeting coordinating committee then the select board should recommend the town meeting that they agree with that referral whatever the it's just that I recommend referral because it makes it seem like you're referring it and we're not supports a recommendation of referral but will not make said motion but I don't think will not make has to be in our motion is there a second? I don't care so there is a second so is there further discussion does anyone else want to elaborate Mr. Wall I have two minds about this but for different reasons I'm stumbling over the logic we decided it was a bad idea so we're going to send it back so people came up with a bad idea and tell them to make it better when they're with because they're a bad idea so this is the purpose of this as opposed to wanting it down could the idea be improved? no okay I guess that's the motion to vote that would be a reason and that's why sometimes we do have strong feelings particularly if the motion is to refer to us and we don't want it so that's a different kind of factor is there further discussion of the motion? hearing none all those in favor say aye opposed there's one so it's a 4 to 1 vote so that way if it comes up we don't have to say we don't know because we didn't consider that we can say we thought of that too alright so are there any other sort of things regarding this evening I do note just to comment on order of events the articles 10 and 11 will be suggested to be moved to time certain this evening as well um directly after 15 after 15 before 15 again to remind people that I will not be here if we should go to Monday the 13th and I think the only article I was responsible for was the final one which is about the final end of life and it was just to say that we were taking no position so somebody else would be prepared to do that so you're not scrambling if it ends up being on Monday night then I won't be happy to take that what about tomorrow I forget I won't be here tomorrow just as I after tonight I'm not any other I wouldn't be here tomorrow but tell me he's not going to have it but Thursday night so we'll cross that bridge when we come to it there is a school article about the regionalization and somebody had mentioned that they might want to put the town of Pelham as being the concurring district I talked with town council about that whether that's the superintendent's idea was that that's up to the committee to decide not town meeting to decide the concurring district town council felt that it was within scope of the article to include town of Pelham and he didn't think that it would since all the supporting material was referring to town of Pelham he didn't think it would harm the article but it could wind up being a regionalization decision I understood what you meant but I think what you just said was that town council said it was okay to do that motion that was in fed moderator who said it was okay to change the council they said it was okay too they just didn't think it was particularly good idea because it could be up to the board because the way these are traditionally written is this weird loose way and then all the different towns have all their different committees and then they go we've done this before several times and it doesn't mean that they have to agree if a town comes up to Aguam comes up and says we have one of these will you do this with us we can say no but so limiting it up front so you're letting us know that it is legal to do such a thing so that's one thing that'll happen does that mean we should have if that comes up then I would argue that we should have a position that we think that's a bad idea so I would not want the select board to support doing that because it falls outside the way this process is supposed to work and you're not supposed to limit who one committee can talk to another committee that's not the way it works so if we really again if that's like article 13 just was then it seems like a motion to not support the limitation for article is it article 10 on so moved do you like the second you're the second I think that there's another question so we have a motion to sec so now we can talk about it this is all in the same line I'm not entirely sure but I thought that the statute that sets up the process for realisation was specific on the wording of the motion that had been offered and that's why I'm concerned about it and I can't now in the next one minute look up the statute right and town council did a quick read and I talked to him like 10 minutes before the meeting started and it was a verbal conversation he did not do research on but he felt it would not necessarily harm the motion he recommended that you stay with the original language as offered without having done the research I think on principle I would be able to take a position against doing so I mean if we if we vote on this and we're going to in the email the other result is about that we suggest no recommend no I'll do my best if I can get access to the internet we're asking Mr. Rawlings it's national law chapter 71 sections 14 14A and 14B we just remember being told last time we did this at a special town meeting in what 20 whatever well I've read the statute it's 71 sections 14 14A and 14B if I understand correctly the motion is to not recommend it would be an amendment to the motion so we would take a vote on the amendment and we would recommend against that amendment so do we want to discuss it further or do we want to take a vote on our position relative to an amendment to the motion not our motion to the motion to get confused here with all the motions and amendments and whatnot potential amendment that might be made to pass the order again oh wait no I'm connected I'm connected it should be okay it should have been stored there sorry or do we think we need to take a moment and let Mr. Rawlings do a little bit I don't like disagreeing with town council on camera but I remember the way Mr. Steinberg does that when we brought it before a town meeting before it was like this is the language and this is what you get and not like you're allowed to say okay well that might also help the moderator if that's known before the meeting because he might not allow the motion to pass legal but so was there we do have a motion on the floor and so do we should we do a little research if should we postpone voting for a minute and take up this other well that's what I was thinking alright so why don't we do that I was going to suggest that so we're all thinking of the same same thing so while folks seek internet confirmation of our collective recollections Mr. Bachmann there was another item on our agenda our affordable housing tax incentive agreement right so if you vote and in February you would vote it the tax incentive agreement for the Beacon communities development called at North North Amherst based on that North Square at the Mill District thank you based on that vote and the content of your vote we developed an actual document that would be signed between the town the tax incentive between the town and Beacon communities the group that's doing this so that is on your desk today you I sent it to you earlier it's been posted there are signature line items for the select board for the town manager and for town council and for representatives from our packet from us right but I think it was modified once more just to add the line item for town council the content was not changed not a word it was just the signature page we had the wrong desing tonight it doesn't matter so that was the main thing the signature page changed but otherwise it is in our sign folder we do need to sign that this evening any success on internet searching but we don't need to vote because we already have right so we can start must be in the regs it's not in mass general lots in the regs okay or we're just we're just parroting what we thought we knew maybe we'll have a chance to have some stuff I think we're still at the question of whether we think it's a good idea yeah, unprincipled so we do have the motion are we ready to take a vote I'm not seeing any objection to that I will I'll say all those in favor please say aye opposed so that's unanimous 5 to 0 to not recommend that amendment to the motion if it's made relative to that article so I believe that concludes our agenda for this evening the only other thing I was going to bring up real quickly is that I have here an outline of the points to make about the zero energy proposal which is going to come before town meeting tonight as I could offer to to end it around it's not normally what we do but it is available to anybody who wants to comment on that the one thing that I wanted that I'm going to be saying is a part of that though is the reason I'm bringing it up is the statement that the select board once worked with the petitioners as well as other interested parties to try and achieve a result and so it's a statement of a commitment by the select board and I think it was implicit in our discussion but I just wanted to point out that if I say it out loud it's going to create this you know understanding we are making that commitment and if there's any reservation I just wanted to allow that I think what I remember from our discussion we are committed to those general goals of reducing use reliance on fossil fuels and sustainability and wanting to look at adding a rigor to our process for instilling those values in town building projects but I wouldn't want to say where we're joining in zero net energy but it's not that goal it's the direction of that but I wasn't sure from what you said Mr. Steinberg if you were saying we're joining with you in the goal of zero net energy or just advancing the underlying goals I guess it was sort of like that we are you know we would like to achieve zero energy and we would like to get as close as we can if we can't get all the way that's probably a little further than I'm willing to go because I don't remember us saying that I'm using the word zero net energy so because I don't want to get into arguments later about did we try hard enough to get as close as we could Mr. Wall my recollection is either the same as Mr. Steinberg's or even beyond that because I thought we were agreeing with the goal because who wouldn't agree with the goal of zero net energy for all sorts of nice things our point was that given the practical realities of the planning process finance and also through other factors we didn't think it was realistic to impose that goal upon the town so I thought we were saying we'd be happy to work with the petitioners to find a way to reach that to move toward that goal at some point and not tying us to a deadline or a particular process so maybe it's a semantic difference but we worked with the petitioners to craft a new resolution for the spring that we could both agree on so I didn't see a contradiction between what we said and what Mr. Steinberg said but that might be just me I think the way you phrased it maybe it does a better job of cutting the baby in half how does that come forth I'll work on the language you'll have some time I think a little bit so barring any other topics relative to tonight I believe our agenda is complete and so I would entertain a motion to adjourn so moved second all those in favor and we're adjourned at six fifth thank you all very much thank you now we have