 Hello everybody, and welcome to Shaping Davos. Today we're talking about public service and millennials closing the generational gap. We have two panelists joining us to discuss this, and so we can get our experts in their fields and they're going to tell us a little bit about how we can make the public sector more attractive to millennials who are finding it hard to trust the public sector at the moment. With us we have Scott Bryson, the President of the Treasury Board and Cabinet Minister of Canada. Welcome. Delighted to be here with you. Mr. Bryson, thank you for being here today. Great to be here. And of course Paolo Gallo, the Chief Human Resources Officer, the World Economic Forum, and a transformation coach as well. Thank you for being with us. Pleasure. We are also joined by four hubs from across the globe. We have with us Subbu Kalpathi, Lead Consultant, People Business. Joining us from the Mumbai Hub, welcome Subbu. Thank you. Thanks a lot. Dennis Gersky from Kiev, an Open Data Advisor to the Prime Minister of Ukraine. Thank you for joining us, Dennis. Thank you for inviting me here. And Gilberto Mirando from Monterey, Political Scientist and Consultant joining us. Thank you for being here. Hello. Glad to be here. Just a special note. We were supposed to be joined by the Tunis Hub from Tunisia, but there was an unfortunate tragic accident and they lost one of their members just two days ago. This is in memory of Hiba Safi. She was working on this session from Tunis, and this session is in a way sort of for her memory and the effort that she has put. We want to thank, of course, Laurent Javaudin from Lyon for joining us on such short notice and accepting to fill in the shoes of the Tunis Hub. Thank you so much. Laurent is an investor and former international civil servant and diplomat from Lyon. Thank you for joining us. You're welcome. Thank you. We live in a world where millennials have access to social media networks. They're increasingly becoming entrepreneurs and they're constantly looking for a brighter future. The public sector can seem like a bleak place for them to take part in, but they're constantly reading the public sector as least adapted to their current needs and future expectations. However, I came across an article when I was researching for this during conducting my research for this specific session. An article titled, Millennials Are Attracted to Public Service, But Government Needs to Deliver. It was written by John Flado and Bob Lavigne, both experts in career consulting, and they were quoting a universal, a global employer branding and research company which annually surveys college students, college undergraduate and MBA students, and the results and the polling results that they found were actually pretty impressive. They found that a survey head found out that 49% of students out of 65,000 surveyed said they were dedicated to a cause that made them feel they were serving a greater good when looking for a job. 57% of them said they were looking for job security, and 62% of them said they were looking for a work-life balance. Now these were the top three answers and it's a little bit about what the public sector is about and what it tends to offer. So there is an interest in the public sector and we're here today to see how can it attract the best and the brightest of these future generations. And we're going to start with you, Mr. Scott Bryson. Can you tell us today what you think are the main challenges for the public sector? Well, first of all, in some ways, my job is a little easier since October 19th because on October 19th we had an election in Canada when Justin Trudeau became Prime Minister and one of the reasons why he was elected Prime Minister is across Canada he was able to engage young people. Never before had a Canadian political party gone from third place to first place in one election. And over a period of years, both in terms of his leadership campaign and in terms of the national campaign, he was successful in attracting some of the best and brightest young Canadians to his campaign. And since then, in appointing his cabinet, he appointed the most diverse cabinet in Canadian history, Gender Parity, the first cabinet with Gender Parity. We have a 30-year-old Minister of International Development, Maryam Monsef, who actually came to Canada as an Afghani refugee who is now on the Cabinet Committee on which I serve for Syrian refugee process. It is a very compelling story we offer in Canada today about a Prime Minister who is ambitious to transform the public service to make it more attractive for young people. We have, as do a lot of governments today, we have a demographic reality where more people are retiring from the public service than are joining. And we have what is the most educated, informed, and globally connected generation of young people who are somewhat skeptical about public service. We recognize we need to change elements of the public service. For instance, I mean, what is Google doing? The Google headquarters just opened in Canada. There are new Google headquarters. If you walk into a Google headquarters, it looks slightly different than if you walk into most government offices. In terms of flexibility of work, in terms of work-life balance, in terms of innovation, I was talking to some public servants earlier today here in Davos, some Canadian public servants who are telling me that the public service is too hierarchical that we have to actually change the way we make decisions, that we have to become more creative, that we have to adapt more technologically. We can change fundamentally a lot of elements of the public service, but what is really clear to me is that, well, young people can make a difference in the future of the world in an NGO. The same smart, talented, idealistic young person can actually make a bigger difference in government if government gives them the tools to do that. So we have to make some changes, but young people have to also be open to the fact that you can really move the needle in terms of global progress in government. All right, thank you for that. Mr. Paolo Ghello, what do you think are the main challenges today for the public sector in attracting millennials? Sure. Well, there are many, for sure, and perhaps it's a bit of a background. A couple of numbers. 50% of the population of the world have less than 27 years old. Two people at school, kids at school, have a 10-year-old daughter, and there is 60% of chance it's going to do a job that right now doesn't exist. Whatever we're doing right now in 30 years in terms of a metier profession, jobs will not exist anymore. So we need to also to grasp that whatever we're doing now is going to be completely different sometimes in the future. Second, the theme of these annual meetings, the Fourth Industrial Revolution, help us to grasp the magnitude of the changes. But I really wonder if, in terms of people management, starting from the millennium, we have evolved our thinking, our practices, and our mental models to something that is applicable. Are we still using the terrorism that was invented after the First Industrial Revolution? And just to give maybe some examples, and Scott mentioned a few seconds ago, we still anchor the idea that you have to be 9 to 5 in a working contest. And then the question, does this apply, does this is appealable to millennials? The second one is we tell them what to do. So fundamentally, a cascading down objective to say I'm telling you what to do and you've got to do it, and your career depends on this. The third one, career based on seniority. Really? I mean maybe millennials want to explore different methodology to progress. Object is imposed by, from above, really maybe I need to find out a sense of purpose that applies to me as an individual. So my point is fundamentally, or another one that Scott just mentioned, is a diversity. Diversity is not a quota, it's not a political slogan. It's what we became as humanity. Countries and organizations are doing beautifully. Some don't, and some even go in the opposite direction. So then the question is perhaps to revise some of the mental models or some of the assumptions that we've used since the first industrial revolution and by doing this we'll probably be able to attract millennials that currently are a bit skeptical despite in my view a very strong interest to participate for a purpose bigger than that. There's an interest, right? Absolutely yes, absolutely yes. Just to speak to that interest, one of the things that Prime Minister Trudeau did upon becoming Prime Minister was reach out and ask for CVs from young people interested in public service to join our offices. We received over 20,000 CVs. Young people, in some cases, road scholars and Fulbright scholars and all like just hyper bright talented young people who wanted to get involved and help build a better country and want to help Canada play a more important and progressive role in the world stage. That was reassuring. I think the world economic form itself, actually my experience with young people who work with the forum, I think the world economic form is actually doing a good job of attracting bright young people to its work. I was going to say this is part of shaping Davos and a lot of people involved here, including myself, are global shapers and it was part of Mr. Schwab's initiative to try to get younger people in and I think it's very much what you said about the new cabinet that took place in Canada with Mr. Trudeau coming into government. Him himself being somebody who is going to attract millennials and offering open ideas and people from different races and ethnic backgrounds. And if you look at the mandate, he's committed to open government and open by default, which is something that for millennials I think is something that's very important. Among other things, our mandate letters as cabinet ministers were made public. The public can monitor and hold us to account. One of the things that he's prime minister, he's also minister of youth and he's taking that on personally because he views it as a really important objective for his government and for him personally to re-engage young Canadians in building a better country. Thank you for that. I'm going to ask our audience who's watching this session to please engage in social media. You can engage in this discussion via the hashtag shaping talent. That's hashtag shaping talent. We just got a tweet from Mayuri Bhattasharki. She's one of the Mumbai shapers and she said that millennials want to work in public sector in India for example but corruption discourages them and that's another problem with governance. We're going to get back to that in a couple of minutes. I'd like to turn our attention to our hub speakers. Just to remind you, you each have two minutes to discuss and to tell me what you think are the challenges of the public sector. We can start with you, Mr. Roberto Miranda from Monterey. First, I think it's not only a generational debate, but a political culture debate that we should be having. I would like to share with you a couple of studies in the Mexican context of course that are very sensitive in this matter. The first is the quality of citizenship study by the National Electoral Institute and the Mexican College where it says that 90% of the Mexicans have never engaged in any public or social activity whatsoever. And that's not only a political party. That means an NGO, that means a community association, that means helping in the school of your children. Most of them just don't participate and so there's no real link with your collective context. Another figure that I found very surprising is that 50% of Mexicans believe that politicians doesn't care or would never care for people like them, so they don't see that connection. And 70% of the people think they can trust each other as citizens and much less the government. And the second factor is the absolute predominance of the spoiled systems in Mexico. A recent study of the National Auditing Service of the federal government found that only 6% of all public servants at the federal level come through a professional or merit system. The other 94% is absolute predominance of the spoiled system. That means that they get their jobs as a favor, as a loyalty to have participated or supported a political party or candidate. So there's no door for the millennials to enter the public sector unless it is the political traditional one but not the merit system. And I think those two factors are making very unattractive to young Mexicans in the public sector as an opportunity. And I would say it's a gap made of disappointment, distrust and lack of opportunities. Thank you, Alberto. Thank you for that comment. We had just received another tweet from Miss Monique Vila. She said, we should invite entrepreneurs and innovators to remake the public sector. Dennis, I'm going to turn it to you in Kiev. You know, you've just heard two esteemed panelists speak. You've heard Alberto speak. What do you have to say in terms of what you think the challenges are over the public sector? Well, it seems that Ukraine is an exception these days because the conditions of political situation around Ukraine are very famous around the world. And somehow we have become the testing ground in the government and in politics. So it seems like there are a couple of reasons why people are especially young people, millennials, I have certain barriers of entering the army of government officials. First of all, it seems like the conditions are very aggressive. There is no financial compensation which might be compared to market conditions. We, of course, have a civil service reform and somehow it leads to creating a special fund which will compensate government officials based on international donors or some other sources. There is no culture of sharing among government officials of the previous generations and this creates a lot of moral barriers for young people to come from NGO sector or from business to serve the government. For example, I am coming from NGO sector and I absolutely agree with the previous speaker, Mr. Scott Bryson, that NGOs these days create tremendous opportunities to do great change. So somehow you feel that you have this opportunity in the government but at the same time there are a lot of barriers and you basically struggle to get through them instead of doing things. It also seems that the social attractiveness of government work is because it requires people to have the skill set of achievers and basically those who want to go through big challenges. Somehow when you are in the NGO you can take a lower part or lower engagement in solving big problems. You just become one of several people but when you are in the government especially in Ukraine, usually you are in the position when you are the last stand or the last person who can actually solve the problem or make some change and this creates a very high pressure and very high possibility. Right, Dennis. Thank you for that. Subu in Mumbai, what are your comments? Yes, so the discussion here in Mumbai was very much in line with some of the points that we discussed earlier which is that the millennial generation wants to make an impact and wants to seek a sense of purpose in what we do and what is the public sector equipped enough to take them in. I think that was the core of the discussion. Certain challenges that were identified was one was perceptive which is that traditionally the public sector and public services at large have been construed as to political and bureaucratic and is that a place where millennials can make a career. That was number one. The other was the urban-rural divide that exists so for an urban millennial what are the challenges that could exist and the entry barriers might be a little on the tougher side for millennials to get into the public sector. So lots of examinations, lots of paperwork so how could the government make it really easier for millennials to get in especially given that they want to make a difference and they seek a sense of purpose so how can that be accomplished is what the discussion reported on. Thank you. Thank you for that. Laurent, we're finishing with you from Lyon. You've heard everybody talk. What do you have to say? Well, I think what I would like to share with the panel is actually yet another tale of French exception in the sense that France provides a useful counterfactual for the debate we are having. Let me back that with some figures. According to a recent poll there is a very interesting event split amongst millennials in three thirds and one third of the millennials actually wish to work for the civil service then another third would like to just be an employee in the private sector and the last third they would like to be self-employed or create their own start-up. So if you zoom in on this one third of the millennials in France who would like to work for the civil service I think you can find two main drivers. The first one is the sense of the mission and frankly the prestige of the function. France has a strong tradition of centralized state and a high flying carrier pass in the administrative sector. The second driver is actually the not so good news that's job security that betrays the situation where you have a country with years and years of very slow small growth and high unemployment so the little takeaway from Lyon on this round would be that definitely if you don't have enough young people in the service you have a problem but on the other hand if you have too many that's maybe not desirable so there is a sort of a fine balancing act to strike on this question. Alright, thank you so much Laurent what we can take away from what our speakers have said our esteemed speakers as well as our hub members is that there seems to be a strong consensus except for the little exception in France and perhaps in Ukraine that there is corruption government is too political government reform is needed and we just received another tweet from the Mumbai Global Shaper saying governments can perhaps think of bringing down the age in every department so that it does become millennial friendly we're going to move to perhaps presenting solutions on how we can engage millennials in municipal, state and national level and national levels in public sector what do you think we can do what do you think the solutions are Mr. Bryson? What we're hearing is that if we're going to attract millennials to public service public service has to become less bureaucratic more meritocratic less partisan more transparent and more open and I think if you asked any citizen of any country regardless of age they would view these as good objectives it's particularly important for millennials and I come back to the point that it's clear that a smart millennial can make a big difference in an NGO but I doubt in most cases every leading an NGO can do quite as much as a 30 year old cabinet minister like Maryam Monsef in our cabinet who is actually making cabinet level decisions on the future of the country NGOs will come to cabinet ministers they'll come to members of parliament they will pitch us but at the end of the day in a democratic country the decisions are still made by people that aspire to lead so I think that there's a case we can make fervently to millennials and maybe one of the things we should do is make it easier for people to go from NGOs into the public service for periods of time and to go back to the NGO community how can we do that Mr. Bryson what is a solution I think we can just do it I mean if an NGO comes to see me with an idea as a cabinet minister we can do two things we can bring a team of public servants around and listen to the person and seek to do it or we can say to them look can you come in as an advisor to us for a period of time you know we should be able to do that young people who are engaged as entrepreneurs to be able to bring them into government for periods of time I can remember a few years ago in Davos we were here we were at a session with Bill Melinda Gates and he said look I'm graduating I'm interested in what I'm going to do what kind of career path do you suggest to an early 20s bright person who wants to make a difference and Bill Gates said I used to tell people of your age and education you should go into either business or science but he said I'm telling young people now they should actually go into government we need really bright talented people in government and he said that since and Melinda started getting involved in the developing world he learned the importance of good government and it's not just that a smart person in government can make a really positive difference but somebody who's dumb or corrupt or both can really screw things up and so the point is at the end of the day governments make important decisions and the complexity of decisions today is greater than it's ever been in the history of government or democracy now more than ever at any point in our history we need bright talented people in government and we also have the most talented most educated and most globally connected generation so it seems pretty obvious to me that we need to find ways to bring millennials into this key decision making roles in government thank you for that we're receiving tweets people are enjoying this discussion we just received a tweet from Mayuri that's a Sharji she's saying millennials should get a chance to interact with honest public service officers to know more about challenges and find inspiration and this goes back to what you were saying when we mentioned honest we're talking transparency openness and an ability to foster trust and on that note I'm going to ask you Mr.Galo what do you think how do you think we can present solutions on how we can define career paths that would lead to the to public service I don't know if I have a solution but I have maybe some questions that could be helpful for the debate the first one is just a little story I used to work for the World Bank in the public sector reform unit so I've been working with the public sector reformer at the World Bank for many years and because of this I've traveled in different countries and I work a lot in Cambodia in Ethiopia and what struck me there wasn't the lack of strategy intellectual thinking or at times even funding it's really the lack of people to deliver and it was absolutely phenomenal I remember in Ethiopia the Minister of Health they just didn't get anybody because people used to come and I hope it doesn't seem like a belligerent statement to Canada to the United States to Europe because the study was 20-30 times more so one dimension is to say how do you retain people in their countries in order to provide the value that they have second I come from a country where there is a word that means raccomandato raccomandato is somebody that gets a job because of what our friend in Mexico has shared because he knows somebody I didn't know the statistics in Mexico for 94% which is somewhere between surreal and scary and I don't know any statistics in Italy but it's still a habit when I was head of human resources in a company in Italy I simply put a policy that if you are a raccomandato you automatically disqualify it and so that's fundamentally removed the power of people to manipulate the system and to appoint unqualified people to the expense of qualified people the third example as we have a Shaper from Lyon I really believe that how many countries they have universities that form and prepare public servant to an extent that is needed and frankly I don't know many Canada is one of them, France is one of them they have the called the nationality administration and if you look at who studied there, who passed through there you see every minister prime minister central bank come from there in many countries you don't know where you actually are going to start your journey and this is to me something that in my view needs to be fixed which is we already mentioned in some of the Shapers I've mentioned before I talk about mentor mods but can you really go back to basic and what I mean by this is what millennials wants, what human being wants is autonomy they don't want somebody to control them two, sense of purpose we are purpose seekers we are not profit makers we are purpose seekers three, mastery, the capacity by doing what you're doing and you want to have this sense and last sense of fairness that the system is fair with you which is different than trying to make more money Thank you for that you raised a very interesting point here about how Canada and France both very happy with the public sector in their comments there is a way to actually engage at an early stage millennials in the public sector that could be very much part of the solution on that note I don't want to create the impression that we've got it all figured out No, it's not what I said I mean I'm telling a story where we're changing things and it's going to be better and we have a great professional public service in Canada we are really well served by an excellent public service but we have a lot of work to do in terms of engaging millennials more fully in terms of transforming our public service to be more open, more accountable more transparent less partisan and something that Joubertot said about the partisanship and the patronage side of things that there's a feeling that you have to work for a particular political party to get a job in Canada our senate is appointed and I don't think I'm broaching any big state secrets here but in the past the senate has been typically appointed based on political service and merit but politics and being part of a political party was seen as a path to becoming a senator today our prime minister has announced a new process of senate appointments which is based on merit which has attracted some very bright eminent Canadians who will actually participate in choosing senators based on merit not on partisanship but on merit and that's a big step in my country and it is representative and emblematic of where we're going to go as a government in terms of merit not just partisanship Thank you for that Joubertot he was you've heard what are two Mr. Gallo and Mr. Gallo were saying can you tell us how you think we can engage millennials in municipal, state and national level employment in public sector Sure I'm very glad Mr. Gallo mentioned the Ecole Nationale de l'Institution because I was going to say just that we need institutions that assure us that merit can be rewarded the first thing I think in the Mexican and I think Latin American context would be to confront the spoil system and work in institutionalizing a real merit system making not only fair attractive for young people to enter the government and number two I think governments need to bet on innovation there's a very interesting book by Professor Edward Blazer of Harvard it's called The Triumph of the City and it's on the urban agenda but I think the principle is very much the same he's saying successful places have in common the ability to attract people and enable them to collaborate I think that's the very same principle governments must follow if they want to engage millennials and the third thing I think we need to understand they have a deeper issue here a major strut in public institutions and a little connection of many millennials with their own context and communities I would like to share with you a quote from Professor E. Colfman of White historian of the 20th century and he said the destruction of the past or rather the social mechanisms that link one's contemporary experience to that of earlier generations one of the more characteristic and eerie phenomena of the late 20th century most young men and women at the century said grow up in sort of a permanent present lacking any organic relation to the public past of the times they live in and I think this organic relation with the past with who you are why your society is the way it is and the will to change it what Mr. Gallo was saying of a sense of purpose I think is a deeper issue we need to be working on to promote and motivate millennials to understand the role they could have in the future Thank you for that Gilberto It is, this whole discussion is we just before I get to you Dennis we just actually received a tweet from Alina Opanasenko she was saying as it is discussed in Kiev in the shaping town session there's a gap not in terms of millennials but in terms of new thinkers so could you please tell us how would you think we could redesign career paths in public service Well in my experience it seems like it's crucial to increase the commitment of new coming people to the maximum well as far as I can see in Ukraine it's by creating the privilege of serving to the government it seems like many people were volunteering to the government itself when the revolution was here but right now those people who definitely know different pains and are experts in different areas want to deliver painkillers in the areas where they fill these pains and that's why this should be the project based selection volunteers or new millennials are usually thinking in terms of their project they are not thinking in terms of the government as a whole they just see certain pain and want basically to solve it so let them bring their own projects to the government set the highest responsibility possible and basically let them start from big having more authority than advisor volunteers or simply volunteers have and this seems to be the approach that works here a lot of projects are ruled by project managers who are coming from civic society or business and they become volunteers then they become government officials but they are responsible for only one or two projects that they are very special at thank you for that Subbu do you have an idea on how to close this generational disconnect we are talking about all these generational gaps do you have any comments on that yeah so the discussion that we had here in Mumbai a while ago you know was on the fact that perhaps that might not be so much of a generational disconnect in the sense that millennials probably want a lot of what other generations also want in the sense that autonomy mastery and a sense of purpose is something that everybody connects with right so it becomes that much better for all generations and not just for the millennials so keeping that perspective in mind can we look at redesigning career paths can we look at bringing in more role clarity can we really look at driving greater engagement in the public sector is something that would be interesting to note and to also talk about it I think the other point is very specific to the career track is that just to add on to my point is that millennials also seek a lot of learning and growth which they find in private sector and entrepreneurial domains so how could governments look at redesigning some of those career tracks and also look at shorter career tracks loyalty is something that millennials are not attracted to in the longer run how do you ensure that there are shorter projects for them to be able to accomplish and bring impact working on basically all right Laurent do you want to add to that yeah sure all the months saw because I was myself a civil servant for 10 years and then I had to live so in two minutes let me give you two ideas about how to close this generational disconnect the first one to think about the entrance exam to the civil service in France it's a completely blind exam so that's really great in terms of fairness in terms of merit also in terms of diversity because you can really join regardless of your background and that's really great the problem is let's say the barrier to entry is so high that once you're in it's very tempting to stay and it becomes like an iron cage and it really takes some nerves to really decide I'm living so I really agree with Sugu that a new career tries that's probably the way to go and bring more flexibility as minister Reza was mentioning second idea I think that the millennials know a lot more on the forced industrial revolution than many many of the civil servants so we need to find a way to take them on board when I think of my shapers frankly they know much more about decentralized decision systems about peer-to-peer learning about the blockchain and the bitcoin and government will need these competencies so somehow we need to figure out a way to take them on board really I think job descriptions will have to be rewrote completely reverse mentoring might be a solution I need that for you just before we move to our round three where the hub speakers get to ask you questions I wanted to give each one of you a minute to perhaps respond to what they've been saying they've been talking about these old-fashioned entrance exams and schools for thoughts in order to train millennials at a younger age we also just got a tweet not the boxer saying there's always talk about including millennial and young people but those hiring the government bypass educated and inexperienced youth well first of all you're not making it easy for Paolo and me because you keep referring to me as Mr. Bryson and him as Mr. Gallo and you keep referring to our friends you make us feel very old here our capacity to connect it's very ageist I'm trying to keep it in there you're doing a fantastic job by the way one of the things we may want to think about and I'd be interested in what Dennis and Laurent and Xubu and Gilberto may think of this and I'm going to put Paolo on the spot here the WEF does a really good job of enabling young global shapers of engaging young people in a very constructive way maybe we should look at and the WEF could look at working with some governments perhaps the Canadian government I'm just saying in terms of internships within government to enable young global shapers to actually take periods to come into government as interns to identify areas of interest in parliament we have parliamentary intern programs and some of the most impressive Canadians and in fact global interns in fact I've had interns from Ukraine as an example work in my office over the years we have had exceptional young people from around the world as interns work in the Canadian parliament and I've had the privilege of working with some of them but we ought to look at some sort of internship program working with the WEF to give young global shapers or to give global shapers an opportunity to actually work within government in key areas to learn it's not easy to make a difference in government if you're in an NGO and you're doing one thing and you're focusing on one thing it's a little easier what you find in government is there's all kinds of unintended consequences there's all kinds of barriers to change maybe in government you can help us bring down some of those barriers and we can help you in some ways understand the complexity of government because it's really important that you have a role in helping shape it that's just an idea that may make sense I'm happy to contribute on this one now perhaps two quick points the first one is about mentality and the second one is actually looking at what we're already doing mentality I've been able to go around the globe to present to my organization work in different places before and basically the mantra was if you're very smart at university you end up at McKinsey, Goldman Sachs EFOK you're gonna end up in some local company if you're not that smart you're gonna be in the public sector so except France where again it's not that I'm not French but this country actually and even in England end up in the public sector in the central bank or whatever is actually the pinnacle of your career so we also have to contribute to a different narrative and these are the leaders that contribute to a different narrative here there are many leaders second look at the global shapers my colleagues know that I absolutely love these guys for different reasons there are 5,000 of them 450 hubs, fantastic second for the teaching that we get from them in a let me tell you what I mean by this one do they do we pay them for doing what they're doing no we don't do we tell them what they have to do no they don't do we control what they're doing no we don't do we have the managers or human resources monitoring performance and compensation no they don't and guess what this is a phenomenal community that is measuring based on an idea of professor Schwab 5 years ago because these people have understood the purpose and they put so much energy integrity and passion in what they're doing despite these all these guys they have something else to do they have something else to do so to me this lesson from the shapers is not about the impact they have on the local community which is phenomenal but also the teaching that us as a predictionist and whatever professor should probably take take really seriously and try to propagate in other organizations thank you for that you raised a lot of very good points we're going to turn it to our hub speakers Dennis you were smiling oh so joyfully as Mr. Bryson was talking do you want to go first Scott and Paolo Dennis we've got Scott Bryson and Paolo Gallo here in 30 seconds because we have to move to the other shapers who do you want to ask a question to and what is your question so a quick remark and the question is Mr. Scott Bryson so maybe it's just an interesting situation but at the same time I've met a group of very keen and talented Ukrainian diaspora from Canada I guess a couple of weeks ago and what they offered is basically to boost the government of Ukraine by setting up the global contest for basically Ukrainian diaspora people from around the world to basically urinate with their native country and come back and help the government to rebuild the trust of the society basically it could be used vice versa because maybe some Ukrainians would like to have an internship abroad and basically use the experience that they have here and I'm not quite sure but maybe it requires an effort to take it to another level if there is a certain political will maybe it makes sense to basically create this talent bridge between Canada and Ukraine and help people to connect at least at the middle level of the government just to exchange certain experience I really like that idea Dennis and in fact I'd like to have a conversation with my cabinet colleague Kristia Freeland who's a Ukrainian Canadian who is Minister of Trade in our government she also was a YGL in the past in fact I'm one of two YGLs former YGLs we're too old to be YGLs now we're OGLs or something like that but but Kristia is a leader in our cabinet and certainly on Ukraine issues is really important we also have Marianne Mihaičak who's another Ukrainian Canadian who's a member of our cabinet who's Minister of Labour we ought to continue this discussion and I'm sure YMNA can help with the wealth can help connect us after but that makes some sense we've got so many tweets coming in from the Mumbai Global Shapers the last one that came in basically saying that millennials really value the opportunity for impact and what better than the public services we agree absolutely and in fact I have several cabinet ministers in our government who are Indo-Canadians who are very important senior members of our cabinet in fact my Chief of Staff who's sitting with us today is a part of that community as well so we have just a strong community of Indo-Canadians who are making the future of Canada as well thank you Helperto in 30 seconds what is your question to our panelists sure I think it will be very precise how governments can benefit from marriage and I also believe this should become a strong public narrative because what they lose in the spoil system they can gain politically with better functioning governments the public opinion would feel that but I think what would be for you the main benefits from marriage to build this public narrative who is your question addressed to both Helperto you're asking about marriage and one of the things that when we talk about diversity in government we talk about diversity in terms of it being good for the groups represented for instance people say we need more women in senior leadership roles and they say it's good for women as an example I actually think that's the wrong argument and I think diversity in and of itself is good for better decisions this is my second time in a cabinet I served in a cabinet 10 years ago before our government was defeated and during that time I remember at cabinet women brought a different perspective to decision making and it rendered better decisions having women at the table now that I'm at in a cabinet where we have gender parity and we have so much diversity I find the perspective from a minister representing a totally different background than mine is really valuable and having the diversity of opinions and backgrounds in a decision making setting creates better decisions so I think that is inherently merit so diversity and merit go hand in hand and more diverse organizations are inherently in my view more meritorious it's not a question of in the past where quotas almost were seen as being counter meritocratic I actually think in today's context there's a lot of there's a lot of diverse meritocratic voices who need to be part of decision making Gilberto in just 5 seconds I also believe that we have to play a fair game with the players and what I mean by this is the following the investment per child in US, in Canada in Europe, most of the country in Europe in this 14 to 15 years school period per child in Africa is $100 so in a way if we want to open up to the millennials it's not only about the schooling system but policy makers with the finance minister should probably sit down and think seriously about the investment that they do or they don't do in certain countries some countries are spectacularly doing well Canada is number 2 or 3 on this kind of issues but most of the country that I have the opportunity to work with in my past experience, the bit about the millennia doesn't even start because these people do not have the chance to be a millennia One of the challenges and opportunities we have in Canada is that our youngest and fastest growing population in Canada are indigenous peoples and indigenous youth it is also a population that is the most economically and socially disenfranchised so one of the challenges and opportunities our government has is to change that it is going to take time and we are going to invest in education we are going to invest in young people and we are going to try to close that gap because if the fastest growing and youngest population in Canada has an opportunity to enter the workforce with the skills they need to compete and succeed that would be good economically if they don't that is and socially disastrous so one of the things we want to do as a government is a better job of giving young indigenous Canadians an opportunity to play a serious role in shaping the future of our country our justice minister in our cabinet is an indigenous woman as an example and we have also our fisheries minister and again this is an opportunity our cabinet looks like Canada and the degree to which decision making bodies can look like the people being represented and reflect their values, their interests and their backgrounds I think can make a real difference thank you for that we are closing in on time so I just want to keep going Subu just a quick note there should be an award for the Mumbai global shapers for the record number of tweets in an hour so you'll thank them on our behalf do you have a in 30 seconds because we're running out of time do you have a question for our panellists any one of our panellists yes I do have one question which is that you know India is at a unique point in its evolution in the sense that we are digitally shaping up as a country I think across because we are so diverse as a nation there are lots of rural communities today and are connected through broadband given that reality because you know that part of the shift is happening much faster and it will happen much quicker in the future, in the near future any thoughts on how the participation from citizens could be activated at the municipal state or the central levels any thoughts either of the speakers could contribute here very briefly a lot of organizations have the same issues they tend to solve the problem by having the people selecting the very same people that want to enter into the system so as long as you have let's say 55 years old all of them dress like me right now incidentally taking the decision you would not get the inclusiveness that you need to have so you have to dismantle the system and have the very same people that you need to bring in taking the decision to get there so when you change this recruitment system and when you change the selection criteria you will actually get a better system otherwise you just play with processes you don't get results thank you on that let's just take one last question Laurent the last question is yours 30 seconds yes a very quick one I would like to circle up with the theme of the annual meeting the fourth industrial revolution and we know that more and more high qualified jobs are at stake artificial intelligence and even jobs as lawyers will be destroyed probably and I just wanted to ask the panellists what they think will happen with the jobs in the civil service and the needs for human resources in the future in this line in the functions related to sovereign states well you've asked a question it's hard to the rapidity of change today is such that all of us are challenged in understanding exactly what the impacts will be but one thing is clear that throughout people's careers and life cycles they will need to be skilled and will need to get more skills and to change their skills throughout their career and life cycle that's something that we need to do a better job within government to grow within government to leave government to come back to government at a time there's a lot of challenges economically globally right now and there's very high levels of youth unemployment and underemployment in a lot of our countries at the same time we need smart decision makers and drivers of change within government and it strikes me that this makes a lot of sense to have this conversation right now and to create the changes that can give young people millennials an opportunity to enter government and to be drivers of change and I would hope that the four of you and all the other millennials who are participating in this would engage we can have this as a longer conversation that the WEF can help sponsor and make happen but I really think this is an incredibly important issue to the future success of our governments and our countries and the countries that get this right are going to really succeed in a big way in terms of building a better future for their citizens and shaping a better future for the world I'll be totally biased I want Canada to be one of those countries I want Canada to lead the charge on this and so does my Prime Minister Justin Trudeau so I'm going to be making a pitch to millennials from around the world to work with our government and to work with their governments to be vehicles of positive change and to shape a brighter future all right well thank you so much for that Scott Bryson and Paolo Gallo our hub speakers Alberto from Monterey Dennis from Kiev Subu from Mumbai and Laurent from Mignon thank you so much for joining in and thank you to our audience and to the people watching us across the globe thank you for tuning in we hope you enjoyed the session of shaping Davos and on that note this brings our session to a close thanks so much thank you