 Adrian, can you hear me now? Yeah, I can hear you. Wonderful, and Rodry the same? Fine, so when you put our cameras on they'll be able to see us, won't they? Yeah, so we've, yeah, sorry, this is just our holding slide, so we'll, the cameras will be fine. Rodry, can I check, you can hear me as well? So I can now, sorry, I couldn't just notice I've put the cameras on. Great, wonderful. Well, yeah, we'll be with you very shortly. Well, thanks again. Yeah, do you mind, sorry? Great. Rodry, just to say we're starting with you. When she's here, we'll go to Adrian and then Dan and Colin. And yeah, we're just finding it now, so. I don't know if you've got that, Adrian, it's Rodry, then you. Well, good morning, Borodah, and thank you very much for joining me this morning. Later today, the Senate will debate our final budget for 2023-24. This is a budget delivered in tough times, and probably the most challenging since devolution. Soaring energy, fuel and food costs have hit everyone, and many more people are struggling to pay their bills. That's why our absolute focus throughout the budget process has been on protecting public services and providing help for the most vulnerable. This budget builds on our three year spending plans, which we outlined last year. We have reprioritised our funding and used the additional money from the autumn statement to support frontline public services and other priority areas. We have allocated an extra £165 million to NHS Wales. This reflects our commitment to addressing the ongoing pressures in the health service. We have also made sure that social care workers in Wales will continue to receive the real living wage. And this is provided through additional recurrent funding of around £70 million to Welsh local authorities and health boards. And we hope that this much needed pay rise will help to support recruitment and retention in the sector. We have always been clear that we would focus our budget on prioritising public services and supporting the most vulnerable. And that's why another of our key budget allocations is £227 million for local government. This is the best possible settlement that we can provide and it does ensure that many essential council-led services such as our schools and social care remain well supported. Although Welsh schools are predominantly provided for through that local government settlement, there is also an education department budget which covers a range of spending. This includes schools, teachers and their training, wider education programmes such as the new curriculum and also the continuation of free school meals. I took the decision to ensure that the full £117 million autumn statement education consequential was provided to local councils as well as providing additional funding over and above that to the education budget. We have also allocated £9 million to tackle the impacts of poverty on young people's attainment as part of our people development grant. And of course this is in addition to the £20 million already committed for 2023-24. Many businesses are still feeling the long lasting impacts of the pandemic but this is now being compounded of course by the cost of living and cost of energy crisis. Through this budget we are delivering a £319 million support package for Welsh businesses with a further £145 million for the following year. This budget reflects the commitments set out in the cooperation agreement and we have worked with Plaid Cymru and their designated members to agree the support. I'd like to spend a moment talking about some of the financial transaction allocations made as part of our final budget. Financial transaction capital is a specific type of funding that forms part of our budget settlement and it has very tight conditions on its use and a proportion must be repaid to the UK government. £63 million has been allocated to extend Help to Buy Wales and this scheme has delivered more than 13,400 homes since its launch in 2014. The funding will assist Help to Buy to adapt to changes in the housing market and address the impact of the current economic climate on potential homeowners. Close to £100 million will be allocated towards measures to help people stay in their homes and to support and create more social housing aiming to avoid homelessness and repossessions. Those who can at least afford it are being hardest hit by the cost of living crisis and that's why we've decided that now is not the time to add to that burden by raising Welsh rates of income tax. We did think long and hard about the role of our devolved taxes in this budget. The nature of Wales's tax base means that to raise significant funding we would have had to have raised the basic rate of income tax. This would affect people who are already struggling with rising inflation and higher energy bills and that wasn't something that we were prepared to do. Our focus has been on making allocations to support those households facing the most pressure. This includes a further £18.8 million for our discretionary assistance fund to continue to provide emergency support payments to cover essentials such as food and bills. This will be supported by £10 million to specifically prevent homelessness and maintain Wales's no-one-left-out approach to ensure that no-one is forced to sleep rough. The difficult financial picture has not only put impression on people's personal finances but it is also limiting the ability of government to respond. Inflation has already eroded our budget to worryingly low levels and we estimate it will be worth up to £1 billion less in real terms for 2023-24 alone. This shortfall is greatly compounded with a loss of £1.1 billion EU funding between 2021 and 2025 and that's money which has not been replaced by the UK government as promised. These have been major factors in why throughout this budget process we have been very upfront as upfront as we can be that we can only go so far. It is the UK government which has many of those key levers and has the most financial power to make the biggest difference. So next Wednesday the UK government will present its spring statement. Last week I wrote to the Chancellor to yet again stress the need for real investment in Wales. They must take significant action on NHS and wider public sector funding. We will continue to work closely in social partnership with our trade unions in Wales but we are restricted by a limited financial settlement. The UK government has the welfare and the tax levers to tackle the cost of living crisis. We have suggested a number of practical actions that the Chancellor could take to help people including abolishing standing charges on prepayment features and increasing local housing allowance. We also want to see funding for discretionary housing payments increased, more support for credit unions and changes to the universal credit deduction policy to ease the pressures on the most financially vulnerable households. It is essential that the UK government unlocks business investment and enables opportunities for investment in green energy and decarbonisation if we want the UK's economy to grow and improve our energy security. As the cost of the UK government's energy price support is much less than envisaged and in light of the record profits of energy companies they should use their additional resources to close loopholes within the windfall tax in order to maintain the £2,500 energy price guarantee. We will continue to make the case for Wales to the Chancellor and this spring budget is an opportunity to make a real difference but regardless of the outcome this Welsh government will continue to prioritise our resources where they are needed most. So thank you very much and I will now turn to questions from journalists and first of all we go to Rodri Lewis BBC Wales. You've mentioned extra spending on schools and hospitals this morning so can you give us an update on how the pay talks are going? Please given that ministers say that there's no extra money, how are you as finance minister giving them leeway in order for them to make a more attractive offer to the unions in order to potentially bring these disputes to an end? Diolch yn fawr Rodri. We have the first thing I really want to do of course is to thank very much the unions for the way in which they've been engaging with the Welsh government throughout these pay talks and the spirit in which they've entered those discussions which as you'll know Rodri are ongoing and unfortunately I'm really not in a position to give a kind of running update on how those negotiations are going but suffice to say that they are always entered into in a very positive spirit and we will always look for ways to try and support the unions to come to a position where they can recommend their members that they end strike action. We've been pleased in the progress that we've made over recent weeks when strike action has been paused as a result of the enhanced offer which we have provided to the unions but we are in obviously a very delicate place at the moment so I'm afraid I can't say much more than that other than we have provided the best possible financial settlement. I know that my colleagues in education and health are also having discussions about things beyond pay as well so some of the terms and conditions for example which are of concern to union members so those discussions are ongoing but I'm afraid I probably can't say any more at the moment because they are obviously at a delicate stage. You've also said in your remarks that you had ruled out any increase to income tax given the parlour state of the public of finances in Wales under what scenario would you increase income taxes or indeed reduce them? I think that any changes to Welsh rates of income tax should be undertaken in a way which is very strategic and in a way which understands the implications fully and which is a planned response to the funding needs of Wales rather than being a knee-jerk reaction to some what we hope are going to be short term pressures. For us to raise significant amounts of money we would need to increase the basic rate of income tax so were we to do that by one penny we would raise around £220 million, people often ask me why don't you just raise the very highest rates of income tax but if we did that we would probably bring in only around £3 million and we know that those people who are paying the additional rate the highest earners in Wales have options that aren't available to other people in terms of where they locate themselves for tax purposes so it's very likely that they might have a house for example over in England so they might make their property in England their primary home thereby not paying any tax in terms of Welsh rates here in Wales. So I think that there are things that we need to properly consider and fully discuss. I think that there are ways in which we could use our levers in future for example we've long talked about the pressures in social care and we've explored in the past a social care levy. Now we did pause that work when the UK government introduced the changes to national insurance contributions and then they were going to use that money to fund social care and health in the longer term. That meant that we were able to pause our work but I think now we need to look again at that and see what role Welsh rates of income tax might play in the longer term to help with those particular challenges. In the very short term we're very aware that there are people now who will be paying income tax for the first time, the very lowest earners because of the change to the personal rate so that obviously was on our mind when we were thinking about whether or not we would use Welsh rates of income tax in this budget. Of course the tax burden for people at the moment is at a 70 year high, again another reason why we felt that now wasn't the right time to be using those powers but absolutely they could be part of our tools to address some of the longer term strategic challenges. So we'll move now to Adrian Masters, ITV Wales. Thank you. I know I heard what you said to Rotary about not being able to comment on the ongoing pay negotiations but when in the build up to the enhanced offer we were told that there were the departments that dug deep and found all kinds of savings to cover that. Does the final budget say how much has been set aside for the enhanced pay offer? So the final budget deals with our next financial year so departments will have to meet all of those pay demands within their existing main expenditure groups so it will be for health to fund all of the health pay from within that it will be for education to be looking to work alongside local government to have those discussions because of course teachers are paid through local government. So that's for next year but what we did this year which formed a lot of our pay, our enhancement of the pay offer for this financial year was to look to use the funding that we had available to us within the Wales reserve drawing down everything we passed. We passed in our hopefully our supplementary budget next week in the centre and you'll see that as part of that debate we'll be talking about some of the funding which we're drawing down and allocating two departments to allow them to pay an enhanced offer in this financial year. So there are two things really, the short term enhanced offer for this year so that looks to use our Wales reserve, it looks to use and drive underspends from across government to pay for that. But then also next year it will be for departments to meet the funding from within their existing settlements and obviously for local government to be meeting the teachers pay settlement from within the RSG the big lump of money which we provide to local government. Thank you and talking of local government, the local authorities have set their council taxes and some are over 5%. Will you cap council tax rises? We would only look to cap council tax rises worthy to be palpably excessive and the sums which I'm hearing at the moment aren't really coming into that palpably excessive kind of range I think. For me I think local government and council tax is very important to give that autonomy to local government because the council tax is a really important part of the kind of way in which communities hold their local government to account. I think that interfering too much in that I think would be difficult because it is an important part of local democracy but what we do do is try and support those households which are finding it most difficult to pay their council tax by providing our council tax reduction scheme. So more than 200,000 households across Wales pay no council tax at all as a result of that and many more are also supported to some degree in terms of paying their council tax. We do know that there are lots of people out there who are eligible for support with their council tax but who aren't actually claiming it yet. So this would be a good opportunity for me to suggest that people might want to go to the Welsh government's website or their local council's website to explore whether or not they are eligible for help with their council tax because as I say lots of people are eligible but they're not claiming that support. Okay we'll go to Dan Bevan, LBC. Thank you Minister, good morning. What we tend to hear quite a lot from ministers at the moment is that there is no more money left as is already referenced for pay rises within the NHS within education but there does seem to be pay offers that keep being put forward. Was that in your mind going into this budget? Have you had to cut anything back knowing that down the line there's going to have to be these pay negotiations? I think depending on the outcome of the negotiations there may be some further difficult decisions for colleagues to take so an example would be the enhanced offer that we've made in health. So the funding for this financial year is there, it's available but for the next financial year the health department will need to find £67 million of additional funding to make up the consolidated element of that pay award offer should it be agreed. There's no extra money in health to find that so the health minister said she will work with the NHS and also work with unions to drive down agency spend to try and meet some of that £67 million but that's going to be a really tough ask so if it can't all be found through reducing agency spend then health minister will have to look across everything that she is responsible for to see where she could move money from and potentially look to cut other things to fund pay. I think that really speaks to the difficult choices that all colleagues are going to have to make in respect of managing the budget for next year. You heard me say in the opening remarks that our budget is worth £1 billion less in real terms as a result of inflation. Households are feeling the effect of inflation but absolutely we are as well and it does mean that we're able to do less because our money is worth less than it was at the start of the spending review period. So that's just one example I think of where difficult choices will fall but depending on the outcome of those pay negotiations then I think colleagues will be asking officials to work with them to identify where money could be diverted from to make up those pay awards. Thank you and if I could just change the topic briefly we are expecting to hear from the Prime Minister later on their latest plans for essentially to stop migrants crossing on small boats. The general plan we understand is to not allow people who make that journey to seek asylum here. Could I just ask is that something that you're supportive of, one plan to try and essentially stop the business of the gangs that are operating those small boat crossings but also the plan to essentially stop people seeking asylum here after making that journey? I think that we need to take a compassionate approach to people who are fleeing the most difficult imaginable circumstances from across the globe looking to come to a place of safety. We need to ensure of course that people who do arrive here have that chance to make their case to seek asylum. And also we must remember that people who are coming to this country are very unlikely to know of the rules which will face them when they arrive here as well. So we need to approach this from a compassionate place and of course in Wales we are a nation of sanctuary. We have people from right across the globe making their home here in Wales and making a contribution to our society here in Wales. So we continue to be a proud nation of sanctuary and you see that at the moment with everything that we're doing to try and provide that warm welcome to people arriving from Ukraine and to help them make Wales their home for as long as they need to. So I think the UK government's approach is absolutely wrong. I think there is work to do in terms of tackling the illegal side, the people trafficking side of the operation. But I think also we need to be thinking about the compassionate approach that we need to take for people who are leaving everything behind and just trying to find some safety. OK, and we'll go now to Karen Harries, CJS News. Borodah, you mentioned you worked quite closely with Plaid for this, but we spoke to one of their MSs, Llyr Griffith, this morning. He said that money is being pulled out of roads but we haven't seen the corresponding investment into public transport. What's your response to that? I will say that we have been working very closely with Plaid Cymru. I work very closely with Sean Gwaintly and the designated member who is responsible for our discussions around the budget. And of course our cooperation agreement does mean that Plaid Cymru will agree to allow the budget to pass. And to do so we have agreed a number of additional elements of funding within this budget. I think it's important that as a progressive Welsh government we work with partners who are progressive within the Senate. So I'm very pleased that we have a cooperation agreement with Plaid Cymru where we are driving forward progress on a range of items which are important to both of us. Equally we don't have a formal arrangement with Jane Dodds but I've been really pleased to work with her on issues around rural dentistry for example to make some progress jointly with her. So it is important but you do have common ground that you work on that common ground together. But the point I know that you're trying to ask really is about transport but I wanted to make those remarks. But you will see in our budget today an additional £40 million going into public transport. You know that I think is an important investment. It is the case of course that public transport is under a great deal of pressure at the moment. I haven't seen the return of passengers to buses and trains in the way in which perhaps we'd imagined at the start of the pandemic after continuing those services. Right through the pandemic providing hundreds of millions of pounds to public transport to ensure that key workers could get to work and so on but people haven't been returning in the numbers that we had envisaged. So I think there is definitely more work to do in terms of restoring people's confidence to travel on public transport. Equally you'll know that the Minister for Climate Change has recently announced a further three month extension to that bus services emergency grant. It was only ever intended to be an emergency grant to take the service through the pandemic but we recognise that there is a period now between coming out of the pandemic and then the point at which we're able to introduce our new legislation which will bring the regulation of bus services back to the public sector in Wales and give local authorities a greater role in the provision of bus services. So I think that the end direction as to where we're going I think is really positive in terms of having more control over those bus services and the network so that it's not private businesses which are just looking to focus on those most profitable routes. Actually it's a service for people who need it in all of our communities but getting there obviously is going to be a challenge. But as I said there is £40 million additional funding within this budget which builds on of course our three year spending review. You mentioned there that people are being reticent to return to trains due to the pandemic but also there are record numbers of trains being cancelled. Engineering works often impact the South Wales Valley's trying to travel to Cardiff. Today there's carefully hosting a cost of living advice today. What would you say to those people that want to travel into Cardiff but can't because their trains are cancelled and then they have to find different modes of transport into the centre? The first thing I want to reflect on really is the fact that in large part actually rail is the responsibility of the UK government but we have seen under investment for decades on the part of the UK government. Also this is a point I made strongly in my letter to the Chancellor ahead of the spring statement that rail is one of the areas where we've seen historic under investment on the part of the UK government. Alongside research and development again UK government responsibility and one where Wales is just not getting its fair share. So I think that people should be reassured that we continue to make the case and in the absence of UK government funding we do of course provide significant funding for our rail services. At the three year spending review we undertook a zero based review of our capital spend and of course now the climate change department has around half of all of our capital funding and I know that rail is one of the really significant areas of investment on the part of that department. But what I will say of course is that change in the rail sector does take time but absolutely it's a key focus of Welsh government. Okay I think that brings us to the end of today's press conference so thank you for your interest and I'll see you next time.