 Moving on to our last topic, this will probably be a little quicker, is Sonic Forces, so it's a multiplayer platform game coming out for, you know, basically all the modern systems including Switch, and we finally got a look at, like it has like a more modern Sonic and a classic Sonic and like there's this crossover storyline thing going on, it's crazy, we don't really know enough about it to understand what's happening, but what we did finally see in some footage released by Nintendo and then finally some more footage released by Sega. Seriously, if I could find a way to say that every podcast will be so happy. Love that old Sega sound. Oh my god. Oh, I just realized it's already happened for you folks but I'm totally bleeping over me doing it and bringing up the actual thing. Anyway, so nostalgia maybe, it hit me hard. I grew up with Nintendo, I didn't even, well I did own a Genesis eventually, but like it was kind of in an afterthought system. Yeah, I know, but still. That was probably one of the more iconic things that started it up. That one and the, I'll always remember the Gamecube one. Yeah, right, yep. That was always really cool. The N64 logo spending was nice, but I don't remember any side effects with it. Yeah, no, no. And the, what system was that? I don't remember. Was that, oh, we've got a game to it. Oh my god. You can't even forget the classic Apple. So, Sonic Forces. We finally have some footage of like a classic area. It's Green Hill Zone, no surprise that's come back several times. This time it's like imported into like a desert it kind of looks like. We don't know the storyline implications of it, but what we do know at least from my perspective is I think it looks good. Yeah. The whole reason we're talking about this instead of Mario Kart 8, which we talked about last week, is because there's a lot we can talk about on Mario Kart 8, but at the point at the time of recording this, we haven't played it yet. By the next podcast we record, we'll play Mario Kart 8 and I guarantee you we'll have some thoughts on it. But right now it's kind of, I want to know what's next. And Sonic Forces is a game coming out later this year. I don't know the day off that I'm ahead. But man, visually it looks fantastic. It's definitely classic Sonic in all the ways I love. The whole game is going to be this way. Sonic is kind of like Generations and something. There's going to be different aspects to playing, whether it's a 3D playing or whether it's a 2D playing. But at least what we see, it looks good. Sonic does this a lot where the first things they show you look good. They're kind of hiding the bad stuff behind closed doors. And then the closer you get to really realizing, oh wait, here's some bad stuff, here's some more bad stuff, here's some more. Oh, and then it comes out like, okay, this game is not good. And the last Sonic game that come out, I got excited for is Sonic Lost World for Wii U. It was pretty good. I really, really enjoyed it. It basically, to put it in a nutshell, it was the Mario Galaxy of Sonic, literally. It felt like they literally just took Mario Galaxy and turned it into a Sonic game. That's what it felt like anyways. But the crux of that game is that there was about two or three stages that were just really badly designed. But you subtract, like, ripped those stages out, the rest of the game is fantastic. So I felt like a game where they just didn't keep the consistency, but they had the right idea. With this game, you know, I don't know what they're doing, but it's got to go to Sonic Generations Field, which is more 2D, so that's scrolling. I like it a lot. And again, I know folks, I know about the Sonic Trap. I get it. Like, it looks good. I'm getting hyped, and it's going to suck. And then I'm going to complain about it and be like Sonic's dead, and then they're going to tease a new Sonic game, and it's going to look good. I'm going to get hyped because, like, they had Sonic Boom, which sounded really, really cool, looked really, really cool in concept, came out on Wii U, God, Sonic Boom sucked. Absolutely garbage. It was a terrible game. It was passable on 3DS. The 3DS game, like, they made two different versions of it, and the 3DS game was actually okay. I wouldn't say great, but it was okay. The Wii U version that everyone was hyped about was so, like, oh, through a big red button, former developers from Naughty Dog that made Uncharted and The Last of Us, and you guys suck. This is a terrible game. Terrible Sonic game. Okay, maybe they could make a different kind of game, but they don't know we're not going to make it a Sonic game. They made, like, a brawler team, beat them up. Yeah. Like, I don't even know how to describe it. Platforming thing, it was not good, and I really wanted it to be good because I really believe, like, oh my god, it's a Western studio making it that has, like, guys that have made, like, big games, but it's like, yeah, it might be guys who have made big games, but they might be, like, the grunt workers versus the people who actually come up with the creative ideas. Yeah, they almost tried to take a classic and make it into a, like, a big, big arch game, you know. Big AAA, like, that's why, like, I'm not saying, like, Sonic, you know, Sonic Forces is like a AAA game, supposedly, but we just, I don't know, it looks good. That's all I can say right now. It just looks good. They attempted to do what Breath of the Wild did for Zelda, where they kind of brought it into a massive 3D. But this is an example of failure at doing it. Thankfully Breath of the Wild didn't do that. Even if there's things you don't like about Breath of the Wild, most of you can admit it's pretty dang good. Yeah. And they could build off it. That game's not a game you build off of, like. No. And the thing is, they really, you don't have much, like, money they put behind it, dude, like, Sonic Boom, they had the two different versions, plus they had the cartoon series for, and I think it's the Sonic Boom cartoon series, it wasn't half bad. Yeah. I don't know if it's still ongoing. It probably isn't, I don't know, but it wasn't actually half bad. It just sucks that it's based on a video game franchise and it sucks. Like, the games suck. I don't know. I gotta go and watch some of the Sonic Boom series, because I actually want to compare it to the old Sonic cartoons, the Chili Dogs. Yeah. Like, I don't know. I know when you go back and watch some of the Super Mario Super show and like the old Sonic thing, they're probably not that good. But I liked it when I was a kid. I thought they were fantastic. They're still gonna be fantastic, just because of nostalgia. Just because of nostalgia. Or I'm gonna go and realize, like, these really weren't that good, but I'm enjoying it. Like, I could watch it and be like, okay, this isn't really that good. Oh, right. It's like when I watched the Legend of Zelda cartoon, I know in my heart it's not a good cartoon. Yeah. But I love it. Yeah. It's kind of like, I've always been that way with like the Mario movie. Yeah. Like, I know it's a terrible movie, but God, I love it. Yeah. I just love it. Look at the little bomb, cranking up the McDonald's toilet. Pull things up. Just everything about that movie just makes me smile so much. But I know it's such a, I'm one of those people, I guess I just like terrible things. Yeah. Like, I love it. Like, Zelda 2 used to be my favorite Zelda game. And most people agree it's one of the worst Zelda games. It's like, hey, I think Breath of the Wild is not the best. And one of the best games ever made. Actually, I think it is the best game ever made. So, is that terrible? Terrible opinion. Yeah. So, what are you about to throw at me? Oh, yeah, yeah. So, kind of like, so that explains a lot about your team. Oh, no. You can't go wrong with Link's Paradise. I should, I should have, I should have, you know, I should have went all out with the Zelda thing and made it Evantide Paradise. Evantide Island for the game. Too late. It's Link's Paradise. Yep. Anyways. But Sonic Forces. Sonic Forces. I know we keep getting off topic because the thing is, I wanted to talk about the game, but there really isn't much to talk about. Yeah. The gameplay just looks really good. It looks like Classic Sonic. It does. Which is the intention of that particular stage. And it's hard. That's, that's the thing. Like, it looks really good, but I need to see what the new stuff is. Like, when you bring the classic stuff into a new setting, you're like, yeah, it looks good. It works good. The enemies look fine. Like, yeah, there's some changes here and there, but it looks good. It already worked. Yeah. You're using something that already worked. So of course, it still works. Generally, there are some complaints with ukulele that like the Manjaro-Kazooie thing, but it's too much like Manjaro-Kazooie. Which you're like, how can that be a problem? Yeah. Yeah. No. I don't know how it could be a problem. Some people apparently love it. Some people hate it. So it's kind of. Well, those people are weird. Until I play it, I don't know. Yeah. And that's the same with Sonic Forces. Until I play it, I don't know. But I got to say they peak my interest. Like Sonic Mania, peak my interest, but again, that's like remix of all games and stuff. The Sonic Forces is what I'm trying to get hyped for. And if it's a good Sonic game, again, that might be the first time we see a multi-platform third-party game and actually get the gauge on what it does on the Switch. Yeah. Because third parties are kind of in the proven stage. And it's like, okay, well, we need games to release to prove it. Like, there's this guy, and I know this is kind of pivoting the topic of it, but I feel like it's relevant because it's a third-party game. There's this guy, I don't remember his name, and I'm kicking myself or not remembering it. He was on the latest podcast for kind of funny games. Or, yeah, I think it was the county funny games podcast. And he said things like, you know, all the switches and success, but he had a bad experience in Nintendo with Wii U and everything. And he is, I think he's an indie developer, and he's just like, you know, why would you bring your game, you know, you have a huge market for like 100 million users on Steam, you know, 200 million if you count Steam plus PlayStation plus Microsoft together. Like, why would you bring your, why would you limit your system to like Nintendo, like Nintendo has policies like you need to release your game day and date on our system as you do with the other systems. And I kind of wish that some people brought up the, I wish someone would have brought up the argument that it's like the reason Nintendo says you need to release your game the same day and date on our system as compared to other people's system is because they don't want their consumers to feel like they're lesser. That's kind of Nintendo's ideology, but it's not like, you're not getting like a second tier version of this game kicked out later. Because that happened a lot on Wii U. Like Watch Dogs 2 came out, you know, eight months after, you know, I'm sorry, Watch Dogs. The original Watch Dogs came out like eight months after Watch Dogs released another system. It's like, who cares about that? Yeah, right. Like, how can you really gauge third party success if you're not releasing at the same time? I'm not across all platforms. So I understand Nintendo's standpoint, but I also understand developer standpoint, it's kind of like, yeah, but you need to understand especially for indie developers, it's kind of like, look, we're struggling for money. If our game is done on these other systems, we're not going to hold it back for six months while we work on the Switch version that we're not going to make a lot of money from the first place. So it's kind of an interesting perspective, but I bring that up because he kind of mentions like, why would a third party developer triple A or otherwise bring your games to Switch knowing when, you know, you have to do the same day and date, the cost to it might not, you might not make the money back. Whereas you can just focus on the other platforms and make a ton of money there. And he also, you know, brought up a lot like how many third party games like selling Nintendo game selling Nintendo systems, how many third party games sell. And it's kind of one of those things that, again, you want to see third party success stories that games have to come first. Right. That's kind of like, I understand why third party games left. Nintendo stayed with cartridges too long. They really screwed up their deal with Sony. Just imagining that Sony and Nintendo could have just been a single entity making video games this whole time would have been amazing. And Nintendo screwed that up. So a PlayStation would have never been a thing. It would have just been the Nintendo PlayStation. And that's what it would have been moving forward. But reality is that didn't happen. And reality is that Nintendo lost a lot of third parties in the transition with cartridges versus discs, so I understand it even brings up like the cartridges being another deterrent on Switch. Again, I'm not at the level to know the exact figures for like how much it costs to produce a disc versus the cartridge. It's still cheaper to produce the disc. But then again, there's getting, you know, packaging and like switches to smaller cases. A lot of variants. Tiny cartridges. There's a lot of variants that affect, you know, the sale, like how much it costs to get a product from the factory to the consumer. But the point I was getting at is that third party games need to come out of the system for us to gauge the sales. Right. It needs to happen. And Sonic Forces, I look at this game where I'm like, this is a game that I'm hoping is good. Because if it's good and it releases the same day and date as all the other platforms, it'll be one of those titles. Like if I look at it, hey, look, Sonic's old. Yeah. And you know, you can argue it's a very Nintendo like game, which it is. Yeah, it's a very Nintendo like game. But that's the thing. Know your audience. Yeah, exactly. If you're going to make a game for Nintendo Switch, know your audience. Here's the thing. The audience on Nintendo Switch right now is 90% of people that enjoyed open world Breath of the Wild. So what games do you think might do well in it this year? I don't know. Do you have any open world action adventure RPGs? Is there another like Witcher kind of game coming out? Guess what? I guarantee you there's an audience for that kind of game on Switch right now. Oh, definitely. But again, what third party is going to make the diving risk? Is it going to be just with Skyrim? Oh, oh, Skyrim came out. Look at Skyrim came up. It only sold 2 million. Because everybody who wants to play the game already owns it. They've already probably beat it. It's been out for five, six years. They own it on multiple platforms. Like you need, I want to see like a new game come out that is by some of these other AAA developers and just release it on the hyperbill. Look, like Zelda is more like traditional open world games than any other gaming titles ever made. And the fact that we now know based on the numbers, it's like a Zelda machine right now. It's sold more Breath of the Wild copies in Switch units. There is a crowd there for it. Like I, my greatest fear with the Switch is games like Sonic Forces and other games are not going to put their best foot forward with Switch. And it was kind of an issue. We saw with Wii U, even Wii, but we again, Wii was more understandable because one different control scheme entirely different. It's not like Switch where it's the same control scheme. You know, besides analog triggers, whatever, it's the same control scheme. Whereas on Wii, it was totally different. So I get it. And the Wii was massively underpowered. You were not in HD games on Wii because you couldn't do HD. Whereas on Switch, you can get HD games. So I, I kind of looked at Sonic Forces to kind of pave a way to show like, Hey, look, here's a third party multiplayer platform game that very well in Switch. I'm hoping. I'm hoping. Like I might say go buy the game if it sucks. Don't buy games you're not interested in. Like, but you know, let us know what you think of Sonic Forces because again, we haven't seen much. It's good. Yeah, it's got it's peaked my interest. Sega, don't let me down. I hate to put so much on your shoulders, but you're like the only company right now putting a brand new game out that's third party multiplayer platform AAA. Yeah, for us to actually see can third party, multi-platform AAA games sell in Switch and sell well enough to keep making them. Right. Right. So a lot of pressure on you, Sonic Forces. I know. And Sonic, you always let people down. So it feels, I almost don't want to put that pressure on you, but yeah, that's kind of the state of affairs we're in. Like I don't intend to kind of prop up, you know, super run. Oh, I sold 500,000 copies. I'm like, yeah. But again, most people would consider like Super Bomberman are more of a B team game or B tier game where it's kind of like, or even just an A tier, like it's not AAA, it's not a big budget. Yeah. Like sinking billions of hours into game. It's more like a multiplayer, you know, puzzle game. It's fun. Right. Play it with friends. It's great. But like it's not, I don't know. It's got like, I'm not trying to diss Bomberman, like back in the day, Bomberman would have been like a big AAA game, but it's like, Oh, for sure. You know, the standards have kind of changed. I think a little bit. Like I can see smaller studios doing Bomberman. I'm pretty sure it was a smaller studio that did this one. But yeah, I guess that's all I got to say for this week. I think we're pretty much done. So you have any closing thoughts on there? Anything from, you know, how about let's go, let's go like this, because I want to start adding some, you know, picking the, how about this? What's the, what's the favorite thing that we did this week? Let's buy guys. Oh, well, I'm guessing it just has to be the draft because has to be the draft. Yeah. Yeah. Draft is probably the most entertaining part of this whole podcast. Yeah. Because even as we got all this news, a lot of dry news. It's a lot of, yeah, new like, Oh, here's a bunch of, here's a bunch of recap from like the investor meeting. Here's the 2DS XL. You know, someone retired at Nintendo. It's like, there's a lot of big, like this is all big news, but there isn't all, I feel like a lot to discuss about it because like a lot of the profits are one time. Yep. It's awesome to switch is doing extreme. Right. Right. Definitely. But it's like, there's only so much you can say about it. Yeah. About the draft. The draft. That was fun. Right. That was fun. Remember, vote for me. Yeah. Link's Paradise. Yeah. Link's Paradise. Remember, it's Link's Paradise versus Total Domination. Yeah. Yeah. Who's got the more original name? Come on. All right. Obviously for me, it's obviously the draft too. Good times. Even though we didn't get TJ Watt on the Packers. Yeah, I know. That's okay. I guess, it's really not okay. It's really not. Overnight trade. Yeah. Okay. All right. Well, this is Nathan and Ronald Jantz, and as always, I'm joined by Eric Moore, and we are signing out. Thanks for joining us this week. We'll catch you next time. See you.