 I think, you know, we're talking to an audience here who, okay, we know what we want to do. Retrofit is interesting to us. And let's not underestimate what we've achieved. In the last two years, more than 100,000 homes have upgraded themselves to some degree or other through the mainstream grant programs. Another 60,000 homes have been upgraded to some degree or other through the field poverty programs. That's a major achievement in numbers by international standards. But we know that there are two things we need to achieve. It's about depth and scale. And I think Joe and Joe's report make this point very clearly that we need to be reaching far more homes than we're reaching at the moment. And we know that finance is a key issue there. And we need to be reaching all homes in a much deeper engagement, a much deeper retrofit than we're achieving at the moment, and finance is key there. So in that regard, we spend quite a bit of time talking to people about these questions. And we've done some focus groups, which I'll tell you about. But we also find ourselves in conversations every day with people who are interested in these issues, people who are visiting the retail outlets, who are telephoning our hotlines, who are just out and about. Taxi drivers have become one of my major sources of data on this. So pretty much everything here is from National Radio Cubs. And if you don't like it, you can bring it to them. Pay as you save. I always say you can summarize pay as you save in one sentence. It's about upgrading somebody's home in a way that you pay back the money of the upgrade in a way that kind of balances the energy savings, so it's more or less neutral. Now, try and get on to the second sentence. Well, you put it on the energy bill, but then of course if they're not on the gas network, you maybe don't put it on. You put it on the electricity bill, but the savings don't come on the electricity bill, so their bill actually goes up. But they see it when the oil tank truck doesn't come around as often. And then you get on to the third sentence and say, well, if they're doing external wall retrofit, the payback is actually 14 years. So you actually don't do it in a pay as you save. You need another center for that. So anything beyond the first sentence starts to get pretty tricky to understand exactly how it's going to work on the ground. And in some ways, it can be quite idealized to say to people, look, I can show you here on my spreadsheet, it's beautiful. The curve goes like this and you all break even in year nine in month four and it'll all be fine. And the golden rule is about, OK, we'll only set you up a package that'll just do it right. But I tend to find that I'm not so sure that most people actually think like that. And I suppose putting it simply, does everyone think in that kind of economic way in terms of, OK, I know it's a nine year payback. I've done my internal rate of return, off I go. I'm not sure that really how it is. And to test my theory, we went and spoke to a lot of people and asked them some questions. So let me just break down what we found from talking to people about the way they think about energy, the way they think about retrofit and the way they think about financing retrofit. First of all, how do people think about energy? Now, I'm generalizing in all the points I make here by necessity. What we're finding is fairly typical. And actually it resonates with what Catherine was saying earlier in terms of their market research. And I know from talking to some of the energy companies, they're finding quite similar themes. So I think what I'm going to say to you is fairly applicable to a lot of people out there in the market at the moment. First of all, energy is an emotional issue, not a rational issue. People don't think about, I'm spending this, I've got a rate of return. They think about, am I and my family? Are my children warm and comfortable? Is my home a healthy and happy place to live? It can be quite a significantly emotional issue, particularly when you start to say to people, maybe you should turn down the thermostat to save a few quid. And people can be quite negative about the sense that you're asking them to kind of sacrifice their family's well-being for the sake of a bit of money or for the sake of some abstract environmental concept or something. So it's quite a deep-rooted kind of comfort and well-being issue we're dealing with here. And it's also something that doesn't really come up into the old thinking box every day of the week when people say, you know, people don't go around changing the thermometer. Professor Owen Lewis aside, people don't know exactly what every thermostat in their house is set at and what time all the temperatures come on at and exactly how things are running. They tend to just set it, if it's not broken, they don't fix it. They don't think about it too much. Probably speaking for myself now, not even exactly even sure what the last bill was and was that bigger than the previous bill. And, you know, maybe that was because it was cold, but I can't actually remember what the weather was like yesterday at the mine eight weeks ago. It gets even worse when you get into people who, you know, when was the last time the oil truck came out and was that, did it come out in October last year or was it November? Does that mean I'm doing better or worse? Pretty abstract concepts for a lot of people. What is tangible is the comfort and well-being in the home. That's how people think about it. And that's how it comes through in when people do retrofit as well. You talk to anybody who is retrofit at home as I'm sure everyone in this room does and the day after the bill does leave, what they'll say is it's cozier, it's warmer, it's more comfortable. Nobody will say it's more cost-effective or I'm spending less, but people will have a strong, very tangible reaction to the comfort. So what makes people decide to upgrade their home? Well, you do have somebody described earlier the kind of the press by, look, I think my water pipes are going to break down. During the snow at the start of this year, the number of phone calls we received doubled for several days while there was ice and snow on the road. So I think that's a real necessity factor there. But ultimately I think it is, okay, there's something about comfort. My home is not very comfortable. It's a bit drafty. But I think more and more now it's about the kind of awareness that Mark spoke about. My neighbor has had their house upgraded. My cousin has or whatever else. This might be something I'd like to get into. Now, in 2011, when people think about spending some of their money on their home, here's the typical thought process. First of all, I probably want to have some money. Generally people won't start from here and say, I think I'll borrow 10,000 euros to do something on my home. That's not very popular or fashionable at the moment. Second of all, there's some kind of interesting effect here in Recessionary Ireland where if I want to spend five or 10,000 euros on my home and even if I have it as my savings, I don't seem to feel entitled to spend it on a conservatory or a kitchen with an island or an Isthmus or something. Some of those, some types of spending on the home have become a little bit unacceptable because they're not keeping with the times. In contrast with retrofish, which because it's making the home more valuable, more efficient, cheaper to run, more comfortable, is seen as a very acceptable spend. That's an interesting effect there where there's some kind of almost guilt factor about doing certain kinds of things in the homes and there's whatever the opposite of guilt is kind of factor going on when people invest in energy efficiency. It's a very acceptable spend for people who do have a bit of money to spend and are interested in doing something on their home. They might say, I have 2,000 euros and I'll borrow another 2,000 euros. They might say, I have 3,000 euros, I'll borrow another 1,000 euros. They don't tend to say, I have zero euros, I'll borrow 4,000 euros, 5,000 euros. And we spoke in this room about this last year where we found that 85% of retrofit customers, if I can call them that, finance their part of their work, which is two thirds of the total cost, typically from their own savings or at least largely from their own savings. Now, I want to show you this as well and I want to ask you a question about this because I can't figure this out. This table tells us, this is hard off the press, this is based on nearly 100,000 grant-aided transactions in the retrofit market. What I mean by conversion rate is after people who apply for a grant, and you know the way you apply for a grant, you have six months to do the work, most people do it, some people never get around to doing it and they fall off the end of the system after six months. So after people have applied, the conversion rate is what percentage of people end up drawing down the grant. So they actually did the work. So you can see with roof insulation, four out of five people end up doing the work and that makes perfect sense. Something like dry lining, a bit more complex, not as big a market, so a lot fewer people end up doing that. There's a couple of interesting patterns here and we do know, and we certainly found this early in the grant scheme, that a lot of people were applying and then not doing the work because by the time they got into thinking about it, things changed, whatever else. Whereas conversion rates in all categories are going up quite steadily in recent months. So people who are going into the scheme know more, they're more serious about it and are more likely to finish the transaction. There's an interesting one here that I'd like to ask you about. Why is it that conversion rates for a gas boiler upgrade with heating controls is 20% higher than a conversion rate for an oil boiler with heating controls? And if you have a good theory on that, you could tweet up to hashtag retrofitconf and we'll have a look at them at the end of my talk because I actually don't know what's going on there. I can speculate on something about the supply side of the market and things like that, but there's something interesting there. Now, the money bit. We've heard this a few times today and I've said to you that the typical transaction is I have some money, I'll borrow a bit more money, I'll top it up, but I generally won't start from zero. You go into a room full of people and say, so what do you think about borrowing money to upgrade my home? And you should see the look on their faces. Nobody in 2011 in Ireland wants to be in debt of any shape or any kind or any form and the idea of taking it alone and most of all a long-term loan is pretty anathematism at the moment. So these are all typical comments from the focus group work that I'm showing you here. People are saying, I certainly enjoyed upgrading my home last time, I'm going to do it again, but I'm certainly not going to be in debt. People who are in debt want to get out of it as quickly as possible. Josephine mentioned earlier in the context of the golden rule. We said to people in focus groups, how about this golden rule where the payback is nine years so we'll match your repayments so that you break exactly even and everybody said to us, well, could I pay double so I could get out of it in four and a half years? Or is there any way I can top up so I can get out of it quicker? So it's not the value transaction, it's not the kind of spreadsheet version of the transaction, it's how quickly can I get out of debt? I hate being in debt of any kind. And that includes the mortgage. So you say to those same group of people about the nine-year loan, you say, well, what about if there's a mortgage top-up? Why about adding a little bit more to your mortgage and doing a bit of equity release? There's very good rates available. And they hardly even notice it. And they say, no, I want to get out of my mortgage as quickly as possible. If I'm already in my mortgage, I certainly don't want to get back in. So in 2011 in Ireland, a very strong reaction against being in debt. Just to reinforce that point, so you say to people, if I can explain this, you say to a group of people, if your elderly aunt died and left you 10,000 euros, what would you spend it on? And you see that about 40% of people say they spend it on home upgrades, 40% on holidays, 20% say they'd save it. So you get a sense of the kind of things. There's further breakdowns in these categories that I won't bore you with. You ask the same question in another way and say, what if the bank was willing to give you a very attractive, no strings attached, straightforward 10,000 euros loan. Half of the people say, I would give it back straight away. I don't even want to take it, no matter what. And the other half, miscellaneous things, whatever else, a few people say I'd upgrade my house. But again, a very strong reaction. And they don't even want to talk about what percentage is that and what term it's at and is there a free T-shirt and borough to go with the loan offer or whatever else. It's like, I just do not want to be in debt and that's all I want to say on the subject. So to do what we want to do over the next few years, we need to achieve two very significant changes in the mindset of how people right now seem to be thinking about these things. First of all, people don't think about energy efficiency as a package. So people don't talk about project C1, whether I'm at E now and my mission is to get to C1. Everything is discreet. I'm going to do the boiler. I understand the boiler and that's some pipes and it's water and it'll go a bit quicker and the gas bill will come down. There is no connection in people's minds between that and external roof, external wall installation or attic installation because that's different people, different interventions, different technologies. The idea of energy efficiency package, I'm going to upgrade my home. Most people don't think like that. They think about discreet once-off improvements and so like windows, very tangible, very real, very specific, wall installation, attic installation, all perfectly reasonable things to do but not needed together in people's minds in terms of some kind of overall efficiency message. Secondly, long-term financing, as I think I have made the point at this stage, people are very reluctant to this point and again, I do want to say that that's the mindset here in 2011 and I'm in no way assuming that'll be the way it'll be in future years. It wasn't the way it was as few as three years ago so anything can happen. Now, to pause for a minute on the why of all of this since I've been talking on the how, why are we trying to do this? Well, most of you will have picked up from outside this report that we issued today on the economics. I've moved social science discipline for just a minute into the economics of retrofit and we just completed a fairly thorough cost-benefit analysis on two programs that we're running but I'm going to concentrate here, obviously, on the residential efficiency program. So, you do a cost-benefit analysis and you take everything. What we did was we took the two years of 2009 and 2010 and all the mainstream grants we gave which numbered about 62,000 homes we upgraded in that period of time and we looked at exactly, so we have a lot of data. For all those homes, we know who they are, what type of home it is, what measures they did, how much it cost, everything. We have the before and after birth. We have a nice rich data set there and we, so I can tell you exactly what types of houses they were in terms of apartments, houses, big, small, all that kind of thing. We can tell you exactly what measures were installed. We can tell you how much those measures cost, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. Down near the bottom is the stuff Lisa Ryan loves. We know what, we apply a discount rate to future savings so what is a saving? We know that in the first year, somebody does a typical upgrade with us. They'll save 450 euros but we discount that over a number of years over the lifetime of the measures. We apply a shadow price. I won't explain all this to everybody. If anybody's interested, I can. All I can say is we make an awful lot of very conservative assumptions so we assume the worst, the safest possible assumption in every case to really test is this making economic sense. And obviously what you get, if I can just explain this, is that when the line dips down, the point is in the first couple of years, you spend the money and in the next few years, you get it back. That's what this graph does. Somebody probably got a PhD for it but that's what it says. It says, you spend now, you save later. And you save for a long, long time. You're getting those 450 quids all the way for maybe 15 years or more and they add up to a lot more than the initial outlay to this extent. Being quite conservative on fuel prices, quite conservative on all my other assumptions, the first 2,000 homes we upgraded, you look over their lifetime, the savings they would achieve across society outweigh the total cost to government and homeowners and all involved by a cool 300 million euros. And that's, as I say, we're quite conservative assumptions. If you think oil prices are going to go up and gas prices are going to go up, that goes up to 500 million euros as a profit. That's benefits minus costs. And that means that every euro government spends in terms of giving out grants bring societal benefits of five years, quite significant gains and important messages at these times. So that's the why. Now, how do we make it happen? And I think what I want to say to you in the data I'm showing you today is it's very important that we understand how people think about these things. And it's very important that we don't be naive or a little bit ivory-tourish if I can describe Crow Park as an ivory tower that we in the business know what we're talking about. We know what a U-value is. We know about the different types of insulation. But how do people actually think about these things, particularly the financial side? But, that says but, sorry, us don't think of it as fixed. I think it's very important that, as I say to you, when I tell you how people think about loans now, when I tell you about how people think about efficiency, I don't want any of us to assume that's the way it's always going to be. And if anything, the challenges I'm showing you are our collective mission statement for the next few years. How do we actually change people's mindset? How do we get them thinking different about efficiency as a package, about deep retrofit, about pay-as-you-save concepts? There's even little things in the language that I'll come to that if you change the terminology a little bit, you can have quite a significant impact. Now, I'm just going to say a few words from kind of the science of behavior here, which I think we're bringing into the equation. I won't spend long on it, and this is actually being informed by some of the conversation in the UK. And I just want to use it to illustrate the value of thinking about behavioral science and thinking beyond simple economical ways of doing this about paybacks and rates of return, that the way people make decisions and decide to act is a lot more subtle and a lot more complex than maybe sometimes we assume. First of all, discounting the future, a fancy way of saying people do not give a toss about what savings will be in five years. They're worried about now, they don't even believe it. This is actually a very interesting point. If you say to someone, you know, I can show you the package, your savings will be 450 euros a year, they say you're probably inflating that, you're probably overselling that, and maybe it'll trickle away as stuff gets older. So people are actually more sophisticated in doing equations in their head, but more than that, they're actually not interested in doing equations in their head. They're not thinking about five or 10 years down the time. They don't place much of a value on the economic savings in the future, they're worried about the here and now. And that comes right back to why do people do retrofit? People do retrofit to make their homes comfortable literally tomorrow. They're not even thinking about the gas bill in six weeks, never mind the gas bill in six years. People have quite short term factors going into their decision making. Secondly, social norms, another complicated way of saying a simple thing, and Josephine said earlier, keeping up with the Joneses, people really care about what other people are doing. There's a few years ago when retrofit, like doing a passive house, made you look like a complete weirdo, whereas now it's quite common. Five years ago, solar energy was for the freaks, whereas now there's tens of thousands of people with solar panels on their roofs. Retrofit is going through that curve. A couple of years ago, most people hadn't even heard of it. Now it's everywhere. 100,000 people have retrofitted their homes through the grant program. We maintain a phone call rate of 500 phone calls every single day of the week from people ringing us up from the general public saying, I'm thinking about doing this. What can I do, where can I go for advice, things like that. So it has become normal. And that's a very important step in the curve in terms of actually reaching the larger numbers. This is now very common in many sectors of society, not all sectors. Now there's some interesting ways of leveraging this. So at the moment I'm talking about consumer transactions where me as an individual or me as a family think about how I'm going to do this. But there's actually another way of engaging people and that's at a community level. And this was mentioned earlier on. There's a pilot being run by the GAA at the moment down in Clonac-Hilty, which is showing some very interesting things. And what we did down there, we worked very closely with the GAA in this. So you go into the clubhouse, you invite everybody in. We got about 100 people in on a Tuesday night, about two months ago. And we said, listen, here's the deal. Some of you are interested in upgrading your home. Some haven't really been thinking about it. But why don't you do it all together? So a little group of volunteers in the GAA club will kind of manage it. So they'll help coordinate it, put you in touch with people, help you work together. Let's go out and assess the home, see what's possible. When you think you might want to upgrade something, let's go and collectively buy the solutions from the contractors. So you're getting a much better price because you're buying in bulk. There's a kind of a quality assurance field because the GAA are helping run it and there's more pressure. It's not just me and my contractor. And so as a simple financial transaction, if you're thinking of upgrading, it's a great way to do it. You get more confidence, you get a better price, you get a better set of choices. But there's something else. This is now a community group and there's no better community group than the GAA saying let's work together to upgrade our community through the individual homes. And there was a lot of focus in the conversation down there on can local people get the work? I don't want plumbers coming from Dublin or Newry or anywhere else coming to get the work. I want local people and that's their choice. They can decide who they want to do the work. But that was a very important factor for them. So it lifted it from a set of individual consumer transactions into a mixture of consumer transactions and one great big very positive community transaction which again pushes the concept of being normal and acceptable and in a very positive way of doing things. And you know, I gave the GAA example, but actually there's something about the snowballing in any area, in any community, even in an area, like an urban area, like cholesterol, that you wouldn't even think of a community in the same way as you would in the rural sense. But the point is you get just kind of literal snowballing. Three people in my estate have got external wall recently. That's made me more interested in it. The guy's probably going to come and market to me. He might give me a better price. I can talk to those neighbors about how they get on and you get more confidence, you get momentum. And that's where we are in the curve of the moment. Finally, defaults. People tend to do things the way they've always done them. This behavioral science stuff isn't exactly rocket science. It's what we kind of know, but I think we sometimes forget when we're designing policies and programs that it's difficult to upgrade my home. Like I know, I'm in a lot of conversations where people say attic insulation is a no-brainer. It costs a few hundred euros. It takes two hours to put in, and suddenly you're saving a fortune. Why doesn't everyone do it? Well, if anyone looked in my attic, it would be more than a couple of hours to get that crud out of there before they even start. And then I think about the floorboards afterwards, and then I think about the dirt trail and all that. There's a whole, what was called earlier, a hassle factor. And that just makes it less likely that I'm actually just going to get up off the sofa and make the phone call, because there are these kind of psychological barriers to me doing it. There's a interesting trial going on in the UK at the moment where in one of the areas where they're doing attic insulation within a scheme quite like ours, they're offering a free attic clear-out. So they'll go out and actually take all that aforementioned crud out of your attic, and if you want, put it back afterwards, depending on exactly the nature of it. But the point is they've removed one more excuse from people like me who were saying, well, I thought I should do it, but I never actually got around to it. And there's a lot of that out there, the faults. You know, another very typical example. Two or three years ago I replaced my boiler and the plumber who came was going on, again, this is a great old workhorse of a boiler. Never let you down. Be there in 40 years. No, it's not that condensing stuff. They're a bit new. I wouldn't be doing that now. And this is a great one. I sell a lot of these. You know, I'm kind of in the business and I'm thinking, oh, I'm not sure now. That sounds like maybe I should go for the workhorse and that'll work. And meanwhile, the plumber is in his own defaults as well. He's selling the boiler he's always sold. So there's a lot of just kind of habit to change. And that's true of a lot of what we're talking about here, because we're asking people to do things differently. And to advance stuff like, let's say, air tightness, where people actually have to fundamentally think about the way they warm their homes quite differently. It's not just radiator on, gets warm, radiator off, gets cool, radiator on and so on. You actually now have an actively controlled system, a clever system, but you're not meant to open the windows and all kinds of things. So we're talking about behavior change. We're talking about change. And that's not always as easy as maybe some of us in the business seem to think. Now, just one more aspect of the focus groups for you. Before I draw some conclusions. We did, when we were talking to people, asked them about, we explained what pay-as-you-save was and we talked about things. Well, what if you didn't take out a loan, but it was actually maybe a charge on your energy bill? And what about if, would you prefer if the charge was on the bill, on the electricity bill or the gas bill, or what about if it was on the property and when you move it leaves on the property and all the kind of concepts we're hearing during the day-to-day. And to a degree, I can summarize the reaction by saying pay-shmayes. It all sounds like a loan to me, really. What you don't do is lend me money and I have to pay it back. And whether it's on the bill or on a bank account, that doesn't sound that different to me. And then people are quite skeptical about things like, well, if I move house and it's a lien on the property, my best guess is I'll have to pay it off before I need to buy the house off me. So people are quite skeptical about these new concepts. And again, the last thing I'm saying is that doesn't mean they're not going to work. I do actually believe they are going to work, but it means we have to work with people to understand where the barriers are and where the mindset issues are. Just one point on where there's the money from. I apologize in advance to our co-sponsors, AIB, but people do not trust banks in 2011 in Ireland. A few more people trust the credit unions, so people are much more willing to go to the credit unions for this money. But there's something interesting about the green bank concept which was discussed earlier, which has its challenges upstream in terms of how it's designed and how it's done. But back to the GAA example, people were quite interested in the idea of borrowing from a national green fund which has a focus on making Ireland more green, less dependent on imported energy, making my bills lower. They were much more likely to borrow their 5,000 euros from that than from evil old Bank of Ireland or semi-evil old credit union or whatever else. So there's something there about trust and relationships and there's two things. One is just there is a negative brand around banks. That's just an unfortunate reality. But secondly, there is something there about that kind of community spirit and even in that stage a kind of a national uplift feel rather than just a plain old consumer transaction. I did just want to say that I'm talking a lot in generalities in there and this is what people think and clearly people think all kinds of things. And if you can read the writing there, first of all, this is fairly classical stuff. A few years ago before we were in the business and before there were any grants and all that, there were innovators doing great work in their homes and they were benefiting to passive standards and they were doing external wall insulation. Now I'd say we're well into the early adopters in terms of the type of people are doing it. I'd say hundreds of thousands of fair chunk of houses to do in a couple of years in the context of our size. We're a long way from going all the way down the normality curve here and I just have a question that I would leave hanging is who is our audience here? Is pay as you save for everybody which means there's going to reach a point when we're going to have to get to the late majority in the laggards or is it always something that we're selling to the slightly more amenable and approachable set of people in which case the way we do it is quite different and our chances of success are quite different. But ultimately, if we want to upgrade a million homes or more we're going to get past the self-enlightened people who enjoy going to Brooks on an afternoon and reading brochures and there are people like that and I'm probably one of them and most of my colleagues are some of them but all of society is not them and we need to cater for everybody here. So a few lessons. We want to make this attractive. Information is very important here. We've heard a few times during the day. I'm not sure what the numbers are and I can't figure it out. Be yours an important tool here. I think we need to evolve it. And I think there's something interesting doing in the UK and it has been mentioned here and I think it will come which is the idea of maybe putting not just a one-year energy cost in the bill but a multi-year energy cost in the bill and there's actually one in trial in the UK at the moment the B or equivalent of the EPC over there where it says you are say whatever it is, a D1 and over the next 10 years it will cost you £12,400 to heat your home. So actually put the numbers in stark terms in that kind of long-term frame and then it says if you installed the recommended green deal measures that would reduce to €4,500. So a much nicer way, a much very clear way, long-term way of presenting the transaction and I think something that actually could be quite powerful. And then you're presenting the solutions in the same way. There's a lot here about trust and who am I getting my advice from but in theory you're talking about look I can tell you, I can give you this solution it's been proven in your neighbourhood it'll save you this much money. I can explain the transaction to you you can understand what it is you're being asked to sign up to or not according to your choice. Incentives work because they make things cheaper so clearly at the moment you can upgrade your house for a lot cheaper than you would if the grants weren't there but there's another side to them and there's something about the stamp of approval if you like of the system. So some people come to us for the grant and I think there's something psychological by the fact that if government is giving away money on it they must think it's a good thing to do and it also allows us to have a quality system around it and a kind of inspection system. So in other words, the incentive is not purely about making the transaction cheaper and I know that because every single upgrade in Ireland is economically rational in itself that's the whole point of why we're here they all make financial sense but they're not happening so I can't believe there's something about giving a 30% grant suddenly flips everybody over from red to green because it's now within their own definition of an acceptable internal rate of return or something or there are facts going on around stimulation of the market around quality assurance, around giving people more confidence and so even beyond the life of the grants to which we are committed there's something about is there a role for certain kind of structural ways of doing incentives and even just to keep it in that framework and to allow people to know what they're doing. One incentive that actually is quite common and I mentioned about the Clonicality example and this is another example saying that when we explained this concept about a national pay people didn't want it to feel too national because they still wanted the jobs in the local community and this was an incentive for some people saying when I spend my 2000 euros upgrading my home one of the things that's important to me is that somebody in my community is getting work out of that and we know that that's a common effect at the moment. Second about making it easy and I just want to focus here on the one stop shop and there's an interesting example of this I was in recently here in Dublin in B&Q in Blanchestown where you go in now and there's a whole display area called Retrofitter for home energy upgrade and you can see the devices, there's typical examples of homes there's advisors who come up to you to explain it to you they send an advisor out to your home they'll package whatever you want, you want insulation, boiler whatever else you can do that. So I don't have to start ringing plumbers one day and installation contractors another day and BEO assessors another day I can get that kind of package deal and I think there's several people doing that now and I think that's a very positive way to take it some of the energy companies have a similar offering again if there's a trust around that brands like ESB, BGE, Brooks, B&Q they're the kind of brand names that maybe have some trust associated with them and they can build on that to become at the same time an advisor and a service provider and that's a very sweet spot to hit because you can then offer a complete kind of no hassle kind of package to someone where they trust the advice they're getting they just have to sign on the bottom line once they've talked through it and I think that could release a lot of that latent demand. And it's all important there that's why we emphasise quality, that's why we have the penalty points and other inspection tools around there to say that with the first 100,000 transactions the last thing we want is a big groundswell of negative experience where people are telling their neighbours I had it done and I hated it what we have to have people go around saying is I had it done and I loved it and thankfully that's where we are at the moment and it's very important that we maintain that in the early days so that we're building the rolling down mats before they work into the homes rather than all our archetypal memories of kind of cleaning up dust for weeks after the builders left and we need that to transition that market on the supply side so that on the demand side we are all thinking about these kind of services and these kind of interventions in a different and more positive way and the last one I would touch on is making it normal I do actually think I haven't quite cracked how we're going to do it but examples like the GAA and other examples like that I think could be key to going national and going large scale on this because an awful lot of what I've spoken to you about is how people think as consumers how they make a personal investment decision for 2,000 or 5,000 or 10,000 euros that must be very different to how people think as part of a community and I think if we can leverage some kind of community feel for what people are doing here I think we're going to reach into an awful lot more people's homes and how we do these things but all of those tell me exactly one thing and I could have just you all half an hour and put this slide up at the start because my own and only message today is one size does not fit all not one offering not one financial solution not one package not one brand is going to appeal to everyone I don't think that's realistic in any sense and we need to understand as we roll out the new models as we experiment as we will do and find the winners and losers there'll be more than one winner more than one loser and ultimately more than one way of getting people to do what we want to do and ultimately transform the building stock of Ireland thank you very much