 Can you hear me guys? I Can't hear anybody Hello, everyone. Yeah Hello You were saying something money. No, no nothing nothing from me somebody else anyway Welcome to the capital market Big meeting we have two things to declare before we start one is the Antitrust policy we have to follow the hyper ledger antitrust policy That is available on hyper ledger. The second is a court of conduct which Says that we have to treat each other with respect and After this we start on the meeting and I noticed several people are on the call that We're not around before and if People want to introduce themselves. That would be great Let me start with the new people Jagadis Just have to say a few words about who you are and why you are interested and You know keep it. Please keep it short. Thanks. Yeah, I'm Jagdish from swap. Sir. I work with money. Oh, yes, of course Yeah, I have worked in each other Foken Jagannath. Hi, my name is Jagannath. Totally. I got introduced to this by Kirti and I'm a blockchain enthusiast Thank you Any connection with capital markets or not not much to be honest Okay Mike First of all, is this the capital markets group or the earth's a group? This is the capital markets group. I don't know. I'm on the wrong link then I apologize. I think Group Changed the meeting to this week. Although. I don't know whether they're using the backup Zoom or not, I would yeah, I was told it was the backup zoom, but I'll have to go on to another one. Thank you Okay, thank you. This is not the regularly scheduled meeting, but I Don't see anybody else from the earth's a group Jim, are you here for the Ursa or the capital markets? capital markets great Junji Yes, I'm with it. Oh, it's a Brazilian bank. I used to provide support for their trading desk for equities And I have been in the blockchain space for the last couple two years I was part of the enterprise is here my line where I met dipping in one of the token taxonomy events and Yeah, I've been joining this group not consistently though for the past few months So Junji, are you going to make that presentation next week about? the security token stuff Yeah, actually This not I just shared about bones issuance in our last meeting And I don't know if we had in the past in this group a presentation about equity I just wanted to provide an overview from the entire life cycle From when the the buy side places the order and how the broker dealer They execute the order throughout the severance execution brokers and exchanges About the trade and the execution the block trade Locations reconciliation. I think just providing maybe a holistic view of the process Primarily will be secondary market But I'm hoping that it would help maybe the folks that might not have maybe a holistic view of the Equity process maybe so if that's helpful, I'm willing to do that Yeah, please next next time we we can talk about that Money Yeah, money play from swap sub working with this group for I guess from In the early days I have contributed to the dollar project So that's short for us Um Who else is there that I left out? Karen, of course We seem to have disappeared. I repeat Satish here. Yes. Hello guys. I just joined Yeah, if you wanted to Talk a little bit about Why you're here and what your involvement is Yeah, yeah, sure sure I've been working in capital market for like 20 years plus now I Junji has been nicely explaining some of the things I do as well Junji I am one of the you know eight execution brokers you talked about so I work for one of them We do end-to-end for pretty much every asset class with capital markets I have been in investment banks Citibank Deutsche Bank have been in retail commercial trade finance part of it And now I work in execution broker space when you sex into space So that's what I do and asset class wise we trade everything all derivatives you can derivative interest rate everything So that's me in short in terms of why I am here I do see that there is a large marriage that is a well-due and probably going to happen Between the crypto style world and the traditional financial capital markets So I think I think It's important to kind of come and contribute people who know the process and things should actually take those use cases forward with something like hypernature That's why I'm here great you you emailed us About this before last week, right? I mean basically. Yeah, so I was been I was working with Finos Finos is the the financial open source kind of Forum we kind of have a bigger presentation in London with Finos Now Finos is part of Linux foundation We don't want to run a separate DLT group like distributed technology group It makes sense to bring the Finos group also folded into hyper ledger We have a different take on it, but pretty much we are all all solving the same same thing and contributing You know the contributing into hyper ledger the code and the processes, you know, that will help everyone So I think we should start off with With the latest Developments on it all are which money and Jagadish can provide because they have contributed the most Effort it can be very short right now, but we'll elaborate With a different presentation and demo and other things later So Jagdish and I have been working on this ETHAL or CBDC token implementation, I guess for the past three months, I would say We looked at originally at ERC funny token But for the institutional use and again, what did the focus and we're very narrow to only address the interaction between a central bank and And let's say commercial banks and that that's our initial scope is To meet that and we wanted to have an institutional style contract and we felt that And yes, it was sort of much better than other other opens We made the proposal and implemented it. We tested it. We've you know gone to cycles of implementing on the the contract on various Ethereum On various various Ethereum Solutions including Truffle and the nausea and then eventually moved to a hyperlider base who which is more of an institutional Private blockchain so we had the the contract deployed and running and Jagdish had helped build that Command line interface that would actually interact with the tokens over the past few weeks. I know that We've been had shown all the you know the original design of the specification how it's been implemented in TTF So I don't want to go into that details All that we know that we can say today is that is all this code been submitted It's in open source on the hyper ledger Anyone can take it and build it and test it and we put a short blurb on LinkedIn as well And you know hope to get other people to contribute on top of this So the main thing to note here is that well we now have a you know, I I have built the Java client and I was able to connect to the Running version in swap sub As a dealer, I mean as I actually sent a bank and I was able to do some things But I wanted to do a full-fledged demo as a dealer And as a central bank and to see and to show how the How the interactions happen the second thing I wanted to You know says that we'll take this forward a little bit one is Kirti has Has volunteered to do something on the UI and I still owe him the Specs for that UI, but it will basically be driven by the functions that are already available in the Java client The second part is that the The You know, we will take it forward by demonstrating the UI if it is available and Then we have a couple of other points that we'll talk about a little later Now I I have a two things more on the agenda and of course open Open discussion on these topics One is that There was a you know, we had started the work in the itala project by Working on the token taxonomy framework, which was open standard Well, it was an open standard but The there was a close github for just Defining the artifacts and the open standard work Was what we based our itala work on and we actually contributed back the definition of itala but now we hear that The there was a new announcement yesterday about inter work alliance, which is basically an organization that has migrated away from EAA but will still Refer to the token taxonomy framework But their ambitions are a lot broader and they have an incredible list of Participants this includes people like Accenture DA Data providers like amber data. I don't know whether the standard data providers Then there's IBM there is You know all the big there's exchanges like six there are Research and development Organizations so I prepared a small Slide deck that talks about this and our involvement And before I present that are there any comments about IWA or anything else You know dealing with this by anyone on the call A quick question just a slide deck since I'm new to this. I mean, I know EAA I don't know what the new organization is and in the sense where they're headed so If you can post well, I'll meeting notes, I would be great. Thanks. Yeah, I mean it was only announced yesterday So it is unclear to me. I mean they have obviously a website and everything else and I Think I have a feeling that we will be watching them to see what they're going to come up with So let's let's talk about it here, and I'm going to just share my screen Unless you you guys have more to say on the topic All right. So here is Can you see the screen? Yes Okay, so, you know, I just knocked it together because You know this morning in about 10 minutes. So You know, please forgive me if it doesn't Look too professional Anyway, so this is the aim of the this is the aim of the IWA standardized token powered ecosystems We've been hearing about the problems with Getting scale and adoption in token powered ecosystems For a variety of reasons especially in capital markets because it's a highly regulated enterprise highly regulated space in the end both The EEA I mean both the SEC and the FINRA in the United States and elsewhere want to have control over how Tokens are created Traded settled custody and retired and Of course the life cycle of the token in terms of payments or any other sort of activity The problem is the SEC and the FINRA do not buy into this whole The smart contract is the law You know narrative and That's what you know, there is Satish mentioned. It's like a very briefly there one was There is existing cryptocurrency Ecosystem and then there is a capital market ecosystem. How can these two come together? in you know, that will be what Drives the new economy And this is a very going to be a very difficult birth because as With many Initiatives we have the wide spectrum view that is on the one end of the spectrum. Everybody wants You know Smart contracts to drive everything and all of the institutions to disappear on the other end is The traditionalists who view that nothing needs to be changed. Everything is perfect the way it is today Obviously the reality is somewhere in between and I think that the IWA is taking it more towards the first Bragging the people in the conservative camp more towards the Camp that says smart contract is a law But we are a long way away from that anyway, so They are trying to put together standards And this is of course a snarky comment That says the night nice thing about standards is that there are so many to choose from So will this become yet another standard that will join the standards graveyard or will it get Adoption that Is a question we have to wait and watch even though there are so many many so many institutions and bodies that adopt standards The next slide just catches out from their website the three things that they're going to work on one is They're still going to Use the token taxonomy framework for defining Tokens and the behavior of tokens The second is they're going to do this inter work framework We're which When they have taken it out of the EEA they basically said we are going to be technology neutral That means it's no longer Just about Ethereum it is about Technology neutrality, which means any Blockchain technology that can be adopted to this new ecosystem Can be used to issue, you know to can be issued can be used to To govern or or to automatically issue and Trade primary market Settlement secondary market You know all the other corporate actions and economic life cycle events Including retirement or buybacks and so on But The second aspect is the communication protocols to be defined and connected to the framework components So I do not know how they are going to define this standard for this Framework for such a huge ecosystem We'll wait and see and we know that there are existing standards for contracts That are available or being made available for the new economy including CDM common domain model By ISDA and others The second part I mean the third prong is the analytics framework where they want to do a privacy preserving process and data scheme for value-added Services on top of the data that is present or reachable from the blockchain and To do market-driven data reporting on top of it all very ambitious goals You know I get the feeling that we have to wait and watch and see the next one is What are we going to do in this with this new consortium in the short term? We continue on the token taxonomy framework until we have clarity. That is my view Of course, we can have other viewpoints Money and I had a debate about this just just now Which will also clarify some of the issues we'll have which will be the next item on the discussion That's That's for now for a IWA if anybody has any and I'm going to stop sharing the screen and If anyone has You know any Comments it'll be welcome right now Yeah, just a quick thing first of all Given the goals you showed for the network. I'll assume number one that they would Base in a sense in this network all identities on DIDs I'm guessing that of course we don't know that but I'm assuming that would if you really want to have a quote a peer marketplace number one number two In your goals you pointed out data sharing and so if you're going to do data sharing in theory It would be nice if the people that generated the data had ownership of the data again A DID model would support that and my last thought is just that if there if this thing is trying to be somewhat neutral on the blockchain platforms And don't want to spend five years Developing specifications It might be Then it would make sense if they would in a sense try to reuse some of the work that's already been done in cactus in Hyperledger cactus Well, even the DID stuff is still in It's infancy in terms of adoption But not the mechanics of it I would agree with you so if you look at widespread, no, it's not But is it effectively running in production? Yes, it is and so It's not how called experimental software at this point It's production software and so looking at it DID model if you will It's more than just a technology of course So when you look at this group and what they're trying to do with currencies in a sense or tokens you look and say, okay A huge part of this is not the technology It's really around whatever the governance is going to be back to your earlier points You know what's legal on a smart contract or the governance rules, you know, which Jurisdictions you can find where there's a million. There's more stuff on that side of the fence than there is on the technology side for sure money you have Something to add No, I think what Jim says is right as far down. There's a lot more Jurisdictional issues and regulatory issues that comes into play and that's why we wanted to you know narrow down to say hey This is this is this whatever token we're building must be Minimally regulatory compliant and that's why as some of the rules that you put in in terms of compliance rules, you know We focus on as well. So at least You can say hey, there's an experimentation that You know for an institutional marketplace or on a regulated market space is very well applicable And not only that but we also made it genetic enough that the same token can be used for commercial banks to issue their own tokens and Interact with their let's say peers and then in on their on their customers Again, the focus is for me institutional space When the broader discussions about CBDC he should buy central bank or in some sort of that Yeah, then the retail might come in the picture In fact, we've been and I have been going back and forth on how do you handle a retail? It's that's a big top But if we narrow down to its additional market space is much much more easier to adapt and Define and because much of it is all already regulated and you know There are rules and frameworks will be in place and so there's a market practice. You just have to apply those practices to You know these are token space Jim you were mentioning that there are a lot of things in production For DID adoption one thing I saw was You know the whole Canadian BC government wallet Yeah Yeah, it's more than the wallet obviously, but you're right that what they built in effect It's actually pretty interesting because what they built is yes, they They created a solution for BC government called Vaan verifiable organizations network and In that they created something called org book But all of that's based on DIDs and production with indie areas wallets and all that stuff But the bigger thing that they did which as I looked at it closer I started to understand it better is they didn't just build a blockchain solution What they built is in a sense of platform for those kind of solutions, which is pretty cool So yeah, they took indie areas and in a sense where it is at this point in development But they've actually created this thing. So if I wanted to set up an organization, I can create what I call my own org book Using in a sense their templates, which is actually pretty cool so the and it is running in production obviously, but the province of Ontario has also in a sense been the second Organization or government that grabbed what BC did and they've also created an org book You know in a sense proving the fact that in a sense the template that BC had built Is usable independently, which is actually pretty cool so You know to me, that's sort of the better story It's not just that they're doing DIDs and production, which they are but That they they and you've seen the trust out because you wrote the article on that trust over IP framework Which is actually very good that you did for Forbes Yeah, I'm a member Yeah, right. So you so you're internally familiar with in a sense what they've architected But the point of it is Ontario now has picked it up and created their own org book off of that template if you want Yeah, yeah, I you know when we run the both the to IP and the Hyperledger identity working group, which I convene We have seen people like The coachy You know, it's a it's a city in southern India. They wanted to implement the org book there There was there were people from Indian province, but I also see in the in the IWA The Hyderabad Which is a city in India also smart city group is also involved in this standard setting process But back to DID other than this org book and other things What are the other? You know, is there a list of production DID implementation I mean, I'm only harping on the DID implementations because as we know identity is very important for any operations on the Blockchain including the capital markets based operations so one big thing about the identity side of it, I would say is that What I liked about BC government, I like two things that they did number one. They took the indie platform for along with the Aries Project for building out identity. Yes, it's DID and you're right that there's other I'll call it stacks supposedly that could be done in production today. They're not based on in the Aries for DIDs And I don't know enough on my end haven't researched them what I will say Is what's nicer about indie is the fact That indie comes with the notion of zero knowledge proofs to reduce data sharing and Improved privacy, right? So other DID frameworks don't necessarily have ZKP as part of those for what it's worth And so when you look at something especially involving money In theory, you would like to say, oh, yeah, this framework has the ability to really Deliver a high degree of privacy And so it's not just the IDs, but it's the privacy along with it that you get with indie that to me Makes that a great platform choice, but it definitely is not the only one I know there's I guess other ones if you look at the DID specifications from w3c and so on There's other companies that are in there And I'm sure other people are trying to build platforms as well Just the fact that we have indian areas farther down the road and it does support ZKP for privacy Were the two things I really liked about it for what was worth Yeah, but the ZKP is for the For the link secret for peer-to-peer wallets exchanging dids In order to stop correlation Anyway, let's not go down that rabbit hole right now because that'll take up the rest of the rest of the meeting but I wanted to Get back to that, uh, you know that interaction between identity and And any other Application including capital markets ones later Now the second thing that we wanted to talk about was Okay, before we go to that particular aspect Curthi had asked About Couple of things He wanted to propose a insurance Work related You know to open source the insurance Because it has some implications. For example for custody The second thing is he was also talking about some kind of a commodity token So I wanted to Ask him to do a you know To talk about what he what he had in mind Thanks. We've been so For from insurance perspective The whole idea is that the london market and the company market are currently looking at Building something which is More aimed towards the future. So they're they're trying to solve some Uh, traditional problems which are similar to capital markets both on the buy and the sell side That you currently face today one is In this case, uh, what they're trying to sell is diversification of risk Possibly even call it, uh, in the future state. Hopefully a risk token perhaps with attached, um Premium that is paid as a part of the collateralization on risk mitigation process But I saw I thought that this was an interesting aspect and and and Some of the basic fundamental structures and framework that that we are currently working on Could possibly be used in in a similar form, uh Even even in the insurance market as well. So that's that was one thought process um The secondary aspect the the second point that I wanted to kind of bring up to this forum was Yes, we're talking about Bonds we're talking about equity. I think commodity is also um, possibly a token, uh framework for commodities as well would be Possibly interesting There there are several projects in the market, but they've tried to do it Uh in the traditional way, but they have failed to a certain extent to make it a full-fledged um project, uh, at least even in the In the real viable sense. So I was thinking these two could possibly pose Uh, good contenders What is a stronger case for, uh insurance is the fact that insurance and capital markets kind of have a convergence Uh at one point which was called as the insurance links securities Which is the next I would say niche asset class which people are trying to bring out to the Uh global markets, uh with with a huge possibility of growth Within uh areas such as cap bonds. So which is an interesting prospect in itself So I thought we could possibly look at it either as Uh either insurance as its own sig or possibly as a sub Uh project within the uh capital markets because it's got you know, kind of a similar thing associated to a syndicated loan or a bond and at the same time It's uh got some relations to the fact that it does link to the investors by the end of the day For certain types of assets which are based on uh insurance markets. So that's that's that's a thought process So for for the insurer insurance diversification of risk are those then Created, uh, you know our securities created from them and created today Yes, they are, uh, but they're not uh, they're over the counter and in special jurisdictions Not And it's the market is very limited to very specific areas. So for and it's an institutional space to be honest Yeah, I can add to that. So in london, we do do some kind of insurance brokering like packaging insurances It doesn't work like the way other capital markets work in diversifying risk But there is an element of sort of reinsurance and other packaging Um, and then there is like interbroker dealership also between insurance brokers Exactly So most of this process is kind of facilitated by special special purpose vehicles Um by reinsurers who kind of use uh, what is known as a risk transfer contract to kind of generate collateral and in exchange they kind of float Catastrophe bond which has a premium attached to it Most of this is like over the counter style. Um, you know transaction But at the same time the interesting aspect of this is if if that is completely manageable Over, um, you know our distributed ledger that that would be an interesting project to look at Okay, I mean, uh, you know, there are all kinds of uh things like that. I know for example in mortgages The government agencies like fanny and freddy And jini are selling off Uh risk transfer bonds Because they are actually Insurance agencies in a sense ensuring mortgages And they are Selling it off in regular capital markets But notwithstanding all of this, uh, you know The the question We come back to In the end is about uh How best To model and to put in play the e-security Uh using uh token taxonomy framework. How far do you Go in defining a security either a bond or a uh equity And how much of it Can be enforced using a standard based smart contracts And uh triggering payments and so on automatically And This is what iwa is bringing to the table in in in a sense Um, so we want to have us You know, so there like I said before there is that debate On whether the traditional methods will Take over I mean we'll still continue sorry Or will there be new methods that are based More on Uh fully automated smart contracts There are many things that argue against that second possibility Maybe for a small value customer cryptocurrency transactions that can work Uh in terms of the defi and uh so on But for capital markets as a whole Will that work? I mean, this is the debate of that money and I were having and I said that It's going to be some kind of a hybrid model, but in the end, uh, there, uh, you know money's point I I take which is there in the end there has to be an entity that needs um That can be held responsible By sec or finra in the united states and other regulatory agencies elsewhere In their jurisdictions So, uh, it is more more going to function more as a token administrator And also the separation of Uh the, uh You know certain functions like the custody function has to be separated from Um the other functions. So I I just wanted to have You know, I just wanted to introduce the debate here and see what people thought of That because it has direct implications On what we are going to work on and obviously we are a small group. We are not going to Uh take up all of these vexing questions and get bogged down in them. We are, uh, in the business of, uh, demonstrating You know prototypes based on a smaller footprint I would like to hear from people about their views on this topic If no one is satish here, I can go. Yeah, kind of my view on it I think, um, it's kind of good timing. Karen must have seen my email to her detailing You know, Karen did email me. She was asking me what what sort of contribution and I kind of told her pretty much the same I work with a lot of bodies and my assessment is There is going to be a marriage And yes, some sort of marriage. I cannot give you explicitly what that marriage is But there is going to be this middle ground which you said within So that is going to be a traditional finance market marriage and the crypto world marriage My view is That it will be forced via the rpa route, robotic process automation route Where I have seen some of these happening in the traditional supply chain Which is actually working We would do similar sort of contracts. Some legal firms have also started being this contract, which is way more complicated Than you know, capital market contracts before I say anything people have to understand the problems Right, then the processes and the tool, which is the hyper ledger in this case. It easily fit I have two or three use cases one use case the insurances case we talked about in this meeting Under the mortgage and the other aspects many may and freddy max sort of aspects, right Those two probably within is the right sort of areas we should Take sort of define the problem and see how the process will fit in there Obviously, you need to do the id problem, which is which is kind of idea onboarding and everything is key to that, right? Yes Identity is key But definitely securities and more tokenized securities digitized instrumentations Is is pretty much to be done. It will standardize is the it will standardize It will simplify a lot of problems we see in the capital markets It helps in settlements faster. You are right custody will be separate will have to be separate But then there are ways we can solve the settlement problem, which in cases some cases is 10, you know t plus 7 and all So there is use cases where you would see immediate sort of Applications so you can define that I call this the ppt framework what I mean by ppt is not just the slides It's like the three slides of one problem two process and three the technology I think when we define say for insurance and a mortgage one itself you would see exactly where it fits in I can help with that. I can come about, you know, how we can do it. Yeah, can you put together something? very You know My ppt send off three three slide, right? What are the problems and how do you think the process have to be refined? and where The tokenization the the whole whole part of And there's problems. I'm describing. You're not worried about performance. You're not going to store transactions in the chain right we're going to score the Immutable contracts where you know the dlt technologies is key to it the other thing that We talked about was The fact that There are going to be islands in the sense that many of these Many of these new tokens will exist on separate blockchain networks or separate networks And then The payment itself may happen elsewhere payment rails may be separate So we need some kind of a cross-chain interaction and The world economic forum and others have said that this Interoperation will necessarily happen using cryptographically sealed messages so I have along with money started to define What a cross-chain settlement instruction Would look like it is a basic message and we'll put together something that would pass to the list but unfortunately Like we said, we are you know, all our resources are limited So we have to work on smaller problems and things that do not Involve lifting and shifting the entire world. We are just going to focus on Something that we can actually make an either contribution either in terms of code and a sample poc and then Note the problems to the standard bodies like iwa or ttf and then they can try to address that they have huge amount of resources and they are, you know Multi-billion-dollar companies participating in them. So anything else Otherwise we can close down the call um Can I add something about uh, uh, the isda cdm? Oh, yes, of course um It's part of this whole standards that you know initiative is going on in you know multiple different dimensions from tokens to What now we talk about iwa In the financial capital markets that is, you know, um, there's a big effort for the past two years and standardizing the entire business process flow of capital markets You know, we we are i'm part of this entire part of this is the cdm working group We start off with derivatives and now, you know, move down the chain now and we are addressing digital assets. In fact, uh, you know, I also included whipping and one of those calls to the isda So we are now trying to standardize the digital assets and handling of the digital assets under the cdm So you you have a well defined contract specification from a capital market specific capital market market perspective The life cycle and also a legal definition of these contracts So those things cover but it's purely a business definition and it gives you a good data model for to work with Most of the regulators are coming on board. Um, we pretty much probably will see that as the common standard to apply any digital projects within capital markets, whether it's on dlt or not, it has it has got, you know, very key relevance even within an organization cdm can play a significant role eliminating a lot of those reconciliation problems they run through different systems The on this on the digital asset side or we are trying to, you know, put together a framework of how do we do this thing? The entire life cycle, there are a couple of things missing which is on the issuance side And on this the actual settlement side, uh, which are, you know, the traditional settlement is not what we are looking at So we are working with cdm with isda to even define those business processes as well With that we should have a very good framework for digital assets so, you know Hopefully we would be able to see that in the next let's say a couple of months That standards will start evolving and once the working group, uh, accepts the proposals That would become the standard for handling the entire life cycle of digital assets. So We're hoping to get this thing done in the next few months money Money a quick question. Um, would it be possible for me to kind of uh get involved in some of these, uh, process related, uh Conversations or possibly understand like, you know, some of the high level requirements and And design thought process that you're currently looking at. I think That's where uh, my interest lies as well. So I'll be really happy to kind of support you if anything is required from myself Yeah, yeah, definitely, you know, maybe first we can take it offline and you know, maybe I can understand a bit more And then I can bring it back to the committee, you know, or the group when you know, with with a proper proposal as to what Again, the cdm itself is is today is still controlled by Is there is there a presence international swap? derivatives association, you know, so But they are opening it up. It is the the cdm itself is open source and even can use The entire infrastructure and now they're bringing in other standards bodies Covering different parts of the capital markets also into the fold So you would have one standard rather than multiple competing standards, which will not work In in in when you start going to the digitization phase of capital markets Sounds good. Thanks money But many quick questions. So have they standardized the taxonomy then I mean, is the taxonomy still kind of major standard But you know, there are other standards also have they have they're trying to bring them all together so The taxonomy is still based upon is that taxonomy although there is they've taken input from iso 2022 and you know Typically fpml the the whole cdm is based upon fpml. Anyway, just And then some of the things from fix as well, but remember this is only a Business process is not a technical implementation. No workflows. Nothing. You just simply defines the data model It's up to the implementers to actually, you know, put it on use this as a standard data model and then build on top of it So no protocols or our messaging protocols or workflows are this are part of the cdm It defines the business Events and for each event it defines exactly precisely to say How these events are represented in in in a cdm, which is nothing but adjacent and more importantly it links the The pro is the lineage Which is what is lacking in the current data standards today, which is to say, you know You do the issuance and then you do the trading and then you did an allocation netting and settlement We can actually walk back from settlement all the way back to the issuance because of the lineages So which is very important when it comes to compliance and and you know audit auditors and etc So none of the other data standards support that this is the first time we are we are tempting and and I think it's pretty well working at this point so the lineage Lineage is implemented purely using dlt or uh, it's a combination of the dlt plus Yeah, yeah, I mean what I mean is the the traceability of One to the other is using some kind of a linkage You take the hash the entire The the economic parameters of the trade or or whatever the business messages And you take a standard hash and then you include the hash as part of the message And much like how you do it in a blockchain except that you conceptually take the blockchain concept But you implement as a data model And that's what gives you that tight link linkages or the lineage between various business events And not only the hash, but also uh, some kind of a cryptographic ceiling, right? The cryptographic ceiling is on on top. That's up to the parties whether they're going to put through ceiling If it's too if it's been two inter part two parties, they can use a dlt or blockchain or even simple cryptographic handshake Or if it is internal between two different desks or two different divisions, then they can just use standard databases So there is no No, no requirement as to how the cryptographic is going to work all the day going to guarantee some from a data model perspective The business flow And the and the order of this flow is is guaranteed to make sure that there is immutability in the whole process Yeah, I mean, but using a standard database. There's no immutability because Well, you have the hash if you you have the hash, but if if I go and alter the Um, both the document and the initial hash, right? That's why I said then I can It's primarily for internal usages for existing trading platforms You know, you're talking about Legacy platforms that are not going to be able to accommodate or be able to migrate to the new dlt infrastructure So they can continue to use this the data model for their own inter Within the within an organization Interorganization when you really are talking about true smart contract. Yes, you need cryptography on top of cdm Okay The you know, so we are coming to the end of this session If anybody else wants to say anything in the next minute or so Please go ahead. I wanted like Elena Who's from exact exact pro to say or to say something about the data? Sources, you know, which are also very important here But maybe in the next meeting she can she can provide more more detail about this Because that's another aspect Of valuation and IWA is Is going to be focused on some of that stuff Uh, anyway, it's been a great meeting Unless anybody else has anything to say in the next minute or so closing the market. Thank you. Thank you The meeting was great. Really informative. So thank you so much Just quickly one from money. I mean if we can sync up offline I'm more interested in sort of some of your comments. So I definitely would like to understand much better. Yeah, sure Yeah, um, you know, you can show us an email and then we can catch up. Yeah. Yeah, I'll I'll have the I don't know whether I'm added into the group, but I'll I'll find out I'll find out through maybe Yeah, you you can register yourself on the list couple markets list dot aqua ledger dot org and you look for capital market sig And it's free to join. Everybody's Free to join and contribute Yeah, thank you, sir. Thank you very much guys. All right. Uh, It's been pleasure I'll try to put together Uh a minutes of this very freewheeling meeting. Uh, I mean we had a couple of themes Thanks again, and I'm going to end the meeting which will end everybody's meetings Sorry, uh, until next time Junji will present and