 One thing about the property market is that it will grow and one place it's growing at a rapid pace is in Khao Teng. Tonight we are talking everything and anything you need to know about the property market in Khao Teng. This is the Private Property Podcast. My name is Tumi. Thank you so much for joining us. Today I'm talking to Andrea Thacker who is the director at Mortgage Me. We are talking anything and everything that you need to know if you are a property investor. So stay tuned until the end of the conversation and remember to interact with us on all social media platforms. Andrea, good evening and thank you so much for joining us. Thanks for having me, Tumi. Thank you. So we are talking the Khao Teng property market and how it's growing and things are changing and you are currently a director at Mortgage Me. So let's just tell everybody what Mortgage Me is and what role you play there. So as you said, a director at Mortgage Me which is an online digital platform to assist home buyers with the process of financing their property. So if you need finance, don't go to one bank, you're going to get one offer. Go via Mortgage Originator such as Mortgage Me which empowers you to do that application process. Once you do that once, we'll submit it to all the major South African banks and the more banks you send it to, the more offers you're likely to get. Sure. And tell me about a typical day in your life. What are some of the things that you're doing? Keeping a platform alive. Making sure people are reading about it, seeing it on Facebook, assisting our support team with the processing of applications, answering customer queries. It's a full day of helping home buyers understand this process of buying a home which everyone's genuinely a little bit terrified of. But we're here to simplify that process. Sure. You know we've had so many topics on the podcast that talk about some of the things that are stumbling blocks to people actually getting property and one of them is affordability and actually taking that leap because people think it's such a tedious process and I might not really even have the stamina to go through it. And people like you make it a little bit easier for them, right? So according to TPN Credit Beru, Khauteng is one of the fastest growing property markets. Would you say this is true or do you have evidence to refute it or let's talk a little bit more about that claim? Absolutely agree with TPN. We need to remember here that Khauteng is the smallest province with the highest population density. So I think I stand to be corrected but I think at least a quarter of all South Africans live in this tiny province that we found ourselves in. So we're now looking at predominantly if not solely Metro province where you've got major businesses, you've got big corporates, you've got a lot of South Africans living here and we've got everything from macro apartments to mansions just down the road and everything in between to suit the needs of home buyers and people who need to rent properties. And do you think like phenomenons and trends like immigration has impacted the way the province is made up or the kind of people and the things that are going on in the in the province because now we've got people who have moved into and we had a whole week topic talking about immigration and how people have now moved from the city to to the different coastal cities, your Georges have been coming up, your Niznes have been coming up. Do you think that has caused a significant impact on the growth of the province? So I don't think anyone's immigrated to Joburg. I think as you explained, we saw everyone move to coastal towns, quieter towns, places that offer some families or people a different experience. And if anything, it's just given Joburg a little bit more capacity in terms of availability of apartments and homes. It's given people more options. It's I think also given people the ability to move up in that they might have been living in a smallish apartment in four ways. And all of a sudden, there are now more properties available as people sell theirs and they can look at upgrading and finding something larger that suits their needs and requirements. Let's let's let's expand on that and maybe just give someone at home a little bit more information. So what how would that look in terms of people moving and changing? Do you feel that it's also the working from home that's impacting or the other factors that are impacting it in terms of the market also growing? Are there more available places for them to now rent or new developments coming up? What are we seeing then the economy of the growth? I think if you'd asked me that question five years ago and two and a half years ago and asking me today, I'd probably have given you three different answers. But we all know what has happened to us over the last two years. And now we found ourselves in a space where we are probably being forced to go back to the office to a certain extent. And we would make different decisions around where we choose to live versus what we would have five years ago. And you find ourselves in a place like Stanton where we have had predominantly had kind of an overflow of commercial based rental properties, commercial based properties full of businesses filled with their full staff complement. People are now reducing their hours in the office versus five years ago. And those commercial properties are being developed into smaller macro apartments where you may have housed two or three big businesses. Now you can, in fact, have 200 people living in those apartments. So there's a different makeup of the property structure in Joburg. Just as you've always had the big fancy houses, though that that sector of the market is generally not moving. It's definitely an affordability thing. Those properties might well not have sold as quickly as they would have two or five years ago. The sector of the market that we are seeing huge, huge volume and turnover is kind of in the two million and under space where you've got upwardly mobile people that are looking to live and work in a slightly different way to what they would have two and a half or five years ago. So people might be more keen to move to Joburg City Centre because that kind of resonates with their personality. It's a very up and coming place. There's there's investments in the city. There's certainly investment in Santon as we find ourselves sitting here in terms of a different kind of residential building where you can kind of live and eat and shop and exercise in the same place. And maybe you have to go to the office once or twice a week, but otherwise you're comfortable now in your apartment and you never thought you'd you're going to live in a place like that five or 10 years ago. And what other things that other role players in the property space could do in terms of taking advantage of this growth? Because I'm sure with all of these changing variables in the market, it's causing other players to now start sitting up and doing other things in terms of if restaurants are coming up, then people who are investors who want to start up restaurants can now also look at it that way, you know, can see or even hunt for opportunities in that space. What what would you say other role players in the industry need to start doing? So have we ever got enough coffee shops? Yeah, I mean, certainly it's something I probably should have invested 10 years ago, like I should have invested in a courier company because our whole life revolves around convenience now. I was I was chatting to a colleague who explained that he moved house and instead of informing a bank that he'd moved house and had a new place of residence, he informed Uber Eats and Netflix and his data Wi-Fi company. Those are the kinds of businesses that we turn to first when we're now moving into a new city or new suburb or even a new apartment. But our whole lives have become on our center around convenience and having what we need within our space. We all know what the petrol price is doing. So if I can live and work and play in kind of five k radius, that is what I'm looking for as an average South African, I think. And is this what we're going to be seeing in terms of trends in the next 10 to 20 years? I know you said your answer might be different in 10 years time. But where are we seeing it going? If one is, you know, investors like to prepare, you know, then so that they can manage their risk. So when we are looking at 10 to 15 years from now, let's not push it to 20, 10 to 15 years from now. If I had a crystal ball, I would hope and imagine that these city center pockets that we find ourselves in will be unendated with young, barbie, up and coming, hardworking South Africans who earn well and spend well. That's what's driving the economy. The money flow through these city centers is what is going to kind of prop them up and make them viable places to live 10, 15 years down the line. And developers and investors, where are we seeing them? Where are we seeing them in this change and in the scheme of things in terms of the growing market? So property developers have kind of turned away from commercial properties and more towards servicing the needs of the people that are coming to Joberg. Just as we've had people emigrate out for every two people that leave, we probably have four or five people that replace them. There's always going to be a market for well-pressed apartments or properties in Joberg, where the levies are affordable. It's safe for people to live and it's convenient for them to live. And I think those property developers are taking those trends into account and that's not going to change. And are there any pros and cons that we can outrightly see? You've really spoken a lot about the pros. Let's talk a little bit about the cons as well. Things to look out for because, you know, a lot of times when we're talking about these things, especially that require investing, people just see the pros and don't prepare themselves for the cons. So those cons may be just be very important. So can we go through some of them? So I think one of the most obvious cons that we all need to be aware of is the fact that interest rate governs a certain extent of our affordability. So before I talk to anyone about a specific property that they've got that they are on to purchase, I've asked them whether they can truly afford this. And it's a difficult question to ask because people are like, sure, yes, I can. And mortgage me is here to help as are the banks in order to to really help people through this process of understanding if this is a property that they can afford now and a year or five years down the line, if the economy had to change, their spending habits had to change, maybe their income wasn't as secure as they thought, would they still be able to afford this property? So one of the big things that everyone needs to be aware of now is where we've had a cycle of interest rate decline over the over the Covid era. And I think the interest rates started going up in November last year and there's another rate Huck expected in the next couple of days. We were now entering that next phase that people need to anticipate. So what this means is I think I can afford a property of one and a half million rand today. Do you think I can still afford that if the interest rate had to go up two basis points in 18 months time? And if I can't afford it in 18 months time, I probably shouldn't buy it now. Maybe I should only look at a property in the 1.2 million rand range. So it's about anticipating kind of the worst case scenario. None of us expected the pet price to do what it has done. Now we're questioning whether it makes sense to draft to the office. We need to start asking those questions. And if you're investing in property for the purpose of becoming a landlord, for example, ask yourself how likely you are to rent this property out 12 months of the year every year for the next 10 years. And if you don't think that's likely at a certain amount, it's probably not a sound investment to make. And you need to rethink what what what what you think is important to you when it comes to wealth creation and being a landlord and owning property. Sure. And you know, just just talking about being a landlord, I'm just thinking in my mind if I'm an investor and I'm sitting at home tonight and I'm watching the show and you were to give me advice in terms of where to look. And I know you spoke a little bit about the other stuff, but in terms of property specifically, where would you say I should start looking? So if you're looking at becoming a landlord, a property mogul and maybe having two or three or four apartments that you rent out, if you don't see yourself living in those apartments, don't buy them to rent out to other people. Sure. So think about what you like, what you enjoy. Where would you like to live? What facilities do you have nearby or do you need to have nearby to make this your life experience work for you? And if you can find enough pros in a certain neighborhood, then you're going to find one or five other people who feel the same way as you and would be willing to rent that apartment out from you. Sure. So with all that we have said, as we wrap up our conversation tonight with all that you have said and we have discussed tonight, do you still it's do you think it's still a wise move to invest in how things as in the property market here? Yes, I do. I do. I think this would be a sound investment. Know that when you're investing in property, you're not here to make your returns in the short term. You can invest in an apartment now. And you might see the the financial benefit of that in seven to 10 years. So if you're willing to make that longer term investment, then yes, absolutely, go ahead, buy the property, do that affordability calculation, do it smartly and make sure that you know the answer to the what if doomsday had to happen scenario in five years time. If you can answer that confidently, go ahead, invest. Well, thank you so much for such great insights and sharing with us in terms of the health and growing property market. Thank you so much for joining us. Really appreciate it. Hope to see you again soon. Maybe we'll be talking the Western Cape. Maybe we'll talk in another province. But thank you so much for coming. Thank you so much for having me. And that's how we wrap up our conversation tonight, talking everything and anything, how thing, growing property market. So if you're an investor and sitting at home and you're thinking, what should I do next, start the conversation again and watch and see those nuggets that we share tonight. Thank you so much for joining us for today's conversation, as we were talking deep into what you can do and what is important. Thank you so much and have a great night.