 Hello everybody, welcome to today's live stream What we want to do is we wanted to catch everybody up as far as the basics of Bitcoin and digital asset or crypto taxes and help me do that I've got my friend David Kemmerer co-founder and CEO of coin ledger David. Welcome back to the show Thanks for having me back Always down to walk through, you know the annoying part of taxes on crypto. Yeah, everybody's everybody loves it But it's it's not that people despise taxes. It's just that people sometimes we don't understand taxes So it gives us a little bit of a fright But today we're going to run through it and just to kind of give everybody like a basic information So we had a great show last week as a matter of fact and It was a universally liked this was me you and jordan from from bass law taxing taxing crypto And we went over some pretty advanced stuff I linked that in the description so everybody can can watch that video But one of the big complaints about this one was it was kind of over some people's heads So I said, can you guys break it down and talk about the basics if you are Looking for the basics, of course You know over a coin ledger if you go to their site links in the description click on learn Under crypto tax guides You can see that of course if you're in the u.s. You of course look on the u.s But that's this for everywhere. This is australia, dubai, canada, uk new zealand Sweden it's not just I mean taxes and what coin ledger can do isn't just for american citizens It's for everybody if you definitely want to organize everything. This is the way to go So David do me a favor. Let me let's click on what is click on us for now because i'm biased and I live here But just take us through like some of the basics of like when do we get taxed? What is this? Of course, when do we have to pay it and uh, when are we not taxed in crypto and digital assets? Yeah, I think it's helpful to walk through the basics. Um, as you mentioned I think the government likes to make things complicated, but it really doesn't have to be that complicated So I'll go just from the simplest perspective and feel free to ask questions as I go But crypto currencies bitcoin ethereum, etc Are treated as property a form of property by the ios and this has been the case now for A decade And what that means is similar to other forms of property like stocks Real estate you incur what's known as capital gains and capital losses when you dispose of property Right. It's like an investment. So the simple example is With bitcoin just like with apple stock if you were to buy a hundred dollars of apple stock And then later dispose of it when it's worth two hundred dollars or two hundred and fifty dollars That delta the difference between what you bought it for and what you sold it for Is capital gains income because you're disposing of property And the same works for bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies, right if you buy bitcoin for a thousand dollars and you sell it for five thousand Or dispose of it in any way You'll incur that delta that four thousand dollars of capital gains And that's a form of taxable income that you'll report on your taxes So that's the very start and we can dive into a little bit more along the lines of How much taxes am I going to pay when do I not owe taxes Are there other ways that I can owe taxes even if I'm not trading buying selling crypto? so Choose your adventure. Which do you think is the best to dive in from there? Choose your adventure. Okay, I'll bite so like talk to us Talk to us about like if you're not selling if you're not selling your crypto When do you have any taxable events? Because I always thought it was just like you got to sell it to get taxed Right common common Misconception and people will even say if I didn't cash out crypto I don't know any taxes and that's not true If you disposed of your crypto whether you traded it from one cryptocurrency to another Whether you used it to buy goods or services or whether you sold it for fiat Those are all disposals that you're disposing of the asset and thus you're triggering A taxable event and triggering a capital gain or loss, but let's say you did none of that What are other ways that you can trigger taxable activity? Well, let's say you're you're earning crypto in Any ordinary way like you're staking it or you got paid in crypto from jobs or goods or services that you provided the marketplace That is what's known as ordinary income not capital gains income and ordinary income is just that's normal income It's it's the same as income from your job, right? It's if you earn Some amount of value here you go um With crypto let's say you're staking and I get one ether Staking I'm going to incur ordinary income for the fair market value of that ethereum when it hit my wallet Okay, and so that's how staking works same with mining same with if I were to earn crypto from a job Right. I am earning ordinary income at the fair market value of the crypto when I gain possession over it Okay, got it and then there was one thing to note which I know people will look at this I know some people Will say, okay. Well, I made like some of you The the degenerates out there have made a boatload of money and let's say that they were married filing jointly And they made a million dollars in gains, right? Not just what they spent but you know their gains and their airdrops and all the different Staking rewards and whatever else a million dollars. So they look at this and go okay crap. That means that For the full million I'm going to get taxed at 37 percent But that's not how it works. I mean we have to do It's we look at the taxable income. It's a progressive tax the waterfalls Yep, and keep in mind This takes yep, this takes into account all of your income not just your crypto income So what you do, you know when you're filing your taxes, right? Is you pull all your income sources. So crypto is going to be one of those sources Maybe you have w2 income from a job Maybe you have some business income and you got like a k1 Anyways, you take all of your income and you package it all up and let's say it does equal a million dollars And some amount of that was from crypto as you mentioned You're not just taxed at 37 percent On all that income your income waterfalls through so the first $22,000 of income for the year is taxed at 10 percent the next call it 60,000 is taxed at 12 percent then the next 100,000 from there gets taxed at 22 percent right and you keep ascending the tax brackets until Everything over that 693,000 yes is going to be taxed at that 37 percent But it's not that all of the income gets taxed at 37 percent Yeah, uh, yeah, which is which is nice because you're I mean you're like oh, I made so much money It's all gonna be taxed. But yeah, you're right So progressive as you say waterfall. I do like that. That's a good one and then uh, there was a There was this piece I wanted to share with everybody Which was this was this actually came up yesterday and I thought it was much lower, but apparently I was wrong So there's this thing called in the US and of course everybody's different, right? If you're in lucky germans, you guys just have to wait a year and it doesn't get taxed at all but Ni ni it the net investment income tax This was this was effective January 1st 2013 as taxable It's for individual taxpayers are liable for a 3.8 percent net investment income tax And the threshold is this Again married filing jointly 250 000. So if anything below that you don't get taxed The 3.8 percent married filing separately 125 000. So if you make over that In your gains are also and also your revenue and also your income you get taxed another 3.8 percent single ahead of Hell so 200 qualifying whatever 250 000 net investment income includes but is not limited to capital gains So that's a bummer of a deal you're gonna get on top of the Let's see if I can find it If you're lucky enough to hold for a year which most of us have let's be honest Your long-term capital gains are zero percent depending on these brackets You know if you're married, but filing jointly it's up to 89 000. You're not paying anything zero zero Filing separately 44 59 15 percent is up to like half a million on some of these brackets And then 20 percent is also 553 000 or whatever else it is So on top of that 15 or 20 percent you have to also pay 3.8 percent On this n i i t and also And this is what another sticking point was I've forgotten about this 0.9 additional Medicare tax This is in 2013 applies the individual wages compensation self-employment income But it does not apply to income items included in net investment income So at least we're safe on that but wait lastly Me and David. Well, I live in Puerto Rico and David lives in in Austin, Texas, which is a great state And why is it great? The people are awesome the food is fantastic and also for state capital gains You're not in cruddy, California playing an additional 13 percent Or new york at 10 new jersey at 10.75 and down the road texas and florida for Capital gains are zero point zero So David anything you want to add on that one because it was just a sticking point I had to bring it up because I was wrong yesterday Well, I'm glad that I live in Texas and I'm not exposed to state income tax But not everyone is as lucky, but you have even better over Puerto Rico You know you federally don't have to pay as much. This is true. I don't Very low. I don't have to pay any cap gains except for what I brought with me in 2021 That's going to get taxed regardless Yeah, that's significant Well, hopefully it's helpful to just walk through some of the basics That advanced video is is good and there's more resources, but uh, I appreciate, you know, you have me back on Yeah, yeah, yeah before you take off. Let's get to the q&a and then we'll then we'll get you out of here out of your out of your Your sauna called this here So David if anybody's asking David works at a nice little place called we work So he gets to come in there and use a sound booth That's why people like is David in a in an infrared room. No let's see How about this one? This was the first question. Hey, Rob. Can you ask how does a different wallet and exchanges report to the IRA? That's a good question. I don't know if do they all report or is it Just some don't most most Don't report very extensively today now as we have covered in the past that is going to change But right now Predominantly only 1099 mists are reported which is just reporting any Staking income or interest income over 600 dollars that gets reported on a 1099 for most exchanges here in the u.s But no capital gains none of that activity which is traditionally reported through a 1099 b Or what will become a 1099 d a digital asset? That is not getting reported to the irs today now that does not mean you don't owe taxes on that income It's just There isn't you know a 1099 being sent to you that income is still taxable Yeah, and there was so Who's i'm so big on this is because remember on last video that we did we talked about a gentleman who was in texas and inflated his cost basis And held out some different but it was a lot of money that he skimmed off the top and he got he's looking at between It's five years for every fraudulent count and three years for some kind of additional In fraction that he did and that's jail time So like but he had done this in 2017 and 2018 and 2019 so it caught up with him just this year So that's why i'm like i want my subscribe the people that watch me to be you know forearmed before they go into it How about this one and this is another one we always talk about this but celsius and voyage or an ftx Like i crapped on my celsius Uh, can turbo tax suffice. I don't think turbo tax can do anything for i mean Well, it's not true if you have like a couple of transactions, i'm sure turbo tax is just fine, but coin ledger if you If when you do your taxes it actually can export right to turbo tax I know it's situation specific i'm not going to ponzi route But i want to be able to claim the law since even if it takes years we think we talked about this last time Dave remember this question Yep. Yeah, the last video we had covers it. We actually just came out with a new help guide talking about celsius bankruptcy losses if you go to our help center And that discusses this in detail you can report those losses in coin ledger now It's dependent on many things, right? So i don't want to get into every single edge on on this call But at a high level if you've received disbursement back, you know You've gotten some amount of assets back from celsius. Maybe your bankruptcy claim is completely Done now you can realize that loss and i would recommend you read our help center guide But you can claim those losses Hey, do me a favor. Let's go real quick Is this on the blog posts or where can i find this if you go to help Uh, if you just search on google help coin ledger That will get you to our help center. There you go It's not a different domain and then if you search celsius Oh, I see Yeah, here it is There you go What i'll do everybody's let me i'm gonna copy this in case you have questions Let's just put it here celsius guide So now you don't have to search for it Okay Looks good Um, how about this one a couple more? How do you tax ordinals? I don't Well, it's I mean if you sell it they they should be in there Exactly the same same way of other nfts In that if you bought an ordinal and it went up in value and then you subsequently sold it You're going to realize a capital gain based on how much you made off of buying and then selling it This is likewise if you lost money on it you bought it went down and you sold it or traded it Then you will realize that capital loss and that will reduce your taxable income So now coin ledger does not automatically import ordinals yet. That's pretty New stuff Some some new stuff. So we're we're looking into our blockchain engineering team is but you can still Manually import it if you want and we're working on auto importing all of that Yeah, that's good. How about this one? um Our wallet transactions on decentralized exchanges tracked And this would be for I guess I'd be this would be a two parter Is is it tracked by the taxation government and is it tracked by coin ledger? It's one tracked by coin ledger. Yes, we have no problem importing all of that activity Just add your paste in your public wall address and we'll pull in and categorize all those transactions with the dexes that you use Now keep in mind if a private company like us has the ability to build that technology There's other companies that contract with the governments to help them do just that chain analysis trm right and so Are they tracked? It depends what you mean by that like is every is the government getting a feed of your personal transactions on uniswap? No, but if they want to investigate you or anyone else There are a lot of tools at their disposal that they can use to do exactly that And so that's how I would answer that question That makes sense and then also I just put in there's also a video that david put out a while ago But it is relevant and he talks about just how easy it is to go through the process Of getting things done as far as on coin ledger. I also did a video myself and uh I mean davids is a little bit more spot on very nice and how easy it is to go through those things But I link that also there to make you make it as simple as possible And I want you guys to feel flustered when you do this stuff. So So, yeah How about this one? I can't add vchain in the coin ledger. I guess this would be like a multi-part one because you know, there's all these different I mean, there's a thousand different cryptos. How do we What's the resolution here? vchain i'm not super familiar with how that asset is built Do we know if it's an erc 20 token or not? It must not be if she's saying it doesn't import But if it is its own standalone blockchain, we may not have an integration for that at this time You know coin ledger right now supports over 500 different blockchains wallets and exchanges If vchain is not one of those I apologize It's likely just due to we haven't seen enough demand for it So what I recommend to folks who want us to integrate with their specific Chain that they use is to go into coin ledger and there's a request Um feature request tab and we kind of map all the future requests and people can vote on what they want to see But as you can imagine, we you know supporting hundreds of thousands of users there's infinite amount of integrations that people want so always working to Prioritize what's most needed and it's going to help most people But um, you can always get things in manually if you need to with a spreadsheet So that's what I would recommend. I know that's not ideal, but uh, Yeah Well, I mean not only that but to get our member So when we talk about this like if there's if you're moving because we really care about Not for your portfolio. We really care about is when am I getting taxed? I'm getting taxed when I buy for good services and I sell And usually what you will usually do with vchain Even if you have it on on your specific vchain wallet If you need to cash out you want to cash out or if you never what if you say I'm never cashed out Then we don't this the discussion ends here But if you want to say I need to cash out and take some profits and put that into another currency or put that into another Or sell it for fiat It'll probably go into exchange as long as you have an integration with the exchange itself It will take that That cost analysis and we'll say okay, you bought vchain for point zero two You sold it for point One oh or whatever it is and this is your capital gains from this time frame from when you went from exchange to exchange Even if you what there was an intermediary of a vchain wallet, so it should be okay I had the same problem we first started three years ago with cardano And of course you guys integrated cardano, but I still didn't need it because everything went through coinbase anyhow All right, exactly. That's a great point is if we have your buys and sells We can still quite a lot you can still do your taxes even if you don't have You know one of those transfers where maybe you are self-custiding in for a period of time Yeah, which is fine. How about this one? How do you avoid taxes? Don't sell your bitcoin? What do you think they just don't sell just just don't sell I think I think it's a good strategy. It's the strategy that I follow It's not a bad strategy actually Other ways to avoid taxes, you know IRAs are a good tool. You're deferring the tax um Using loss positions So if you have lost if you're holding on to bags that are in loss positions And you're not too thrilled about those assets can can often make sense to harvest those losses a k sell or trade those cryptos So that you realize the loss and that's going to reduce against any gains or other forms of income That's another really good strategy that coin ledger can help with Um There's a whole bunch more we have a lot of content on how to avoid taxes Just search our our blog. We'll have that Yeah, how about this one? I live I live in another country and I'm using a similar platform for my crypto tax The program can deliver directly to the tax man if I wished you Can your site do the same love of the portfolio tracker? Do you I don't know if I don't think you guys deliver straight to the irs or to I mean that would be in in the united states But you guys don't integrate directly to like the governmental offices No, no, no, but depending on this country, what do you know what country that is? Depends. I can't see and no in the question. Oh, you can't see it. Um But to your point correct coin ledger auto generates your irs tax forms that you need But it's still either up to you to give those to your accountant If that's how they're actually filing your taxes or if you use turbo tax or hr block you'll import our forms into those And so it's not like we're when you finish coin ledger. We're just sending things to the irs right now For these other countries. We also don't do that. Yeah Yeah, right lucky concept. Uh for him it might work out pretty well, but like for me and maybe some other people Maybe we don't want to send it to the Government first. Maybe we want someone to double check Like like my cpa. She always tells me she's like Okay, I'm missing some information. You know, you have more deductions. Where do they go? Okay, let me switch for those. Okay now this part right here I have a question about this and she kind of goes through it to kind of keep me out of hot water But also to maximize or minimize my tax life to spend but again Everybody's different and go from there. Seth says I dropped my taxes off of the account's office yesterday. They They didn't seem happy about my missing cost basis. I guess there's to be a question like what do you do in this situation? Well I would recommend working to solve those missing cost basis transactions um We staff like a 24 7 support team during tax season and they're really really good at helping Our customers figure out what sources of missing data What could be the cause of you missing cost basis now? It's always something is wrong with the data you you've imported. Maybe you've missed Importing from some exchange that you originally bought some on Maybe the exchange you use only gave you a year's worth of data. There can there's a lot of reasons why There can be little problems depending on the platforms you use And our support team Helps thousands thousands of people every year. So I would recommend you reach out to us and we'll take a look at your account and try to Help you solve Where is this missing data stemming from? Yeah, and that's like That would be this this this one point because there was an there was an issue with uh with my portfolio Because if you guys don't know there is a portfolio tracker and it's free You go to coin ledger at the very top And just click on portfolio tracker you can sign up And it gives you like a cost basis now. This isn't mine This is just a dummy account that david was nice enough to set up for me so I could show this to everybody But like let's say for instance like you didn't you're like, okay 1.7 bitcoin Like okay, I don't have 1.7 bitcoin. How is this and you can kind of you can go to the asset balance sheet And you can figure out like okay. It says here's the inflows and outflows And there's something missing Okay, well, how then I have to fix this and and one of the ways that That david talked about he goes just go to the import And if there's something that's just not driving first of all it might be an issue with an api integration So just wherever it was from on that situation. It was coinbase Just delete it Reintegrate and go from there and then if it's really wacky then reach out the customer support But I like to take a look at the portfolio first and go from there and then for cost basis If you're thinking yourself. Well, you know, like there's some things that are kind of above my head if you like the The question about you know, they're not very happy with the cost basis if you go to coin ledger scroll all the way down And the very bottom right hand corner says find a crypto tax expert if you're not familiar in your area You can hire any of these guys and talk to them. They're reasonably priced some are a little crazy But uh, not too bad. So that's what I I've recommended it across time anything and Dave anything about that one No, no, I I concur with all of that And always, you know, our team is down to help. So reach out to us. Cool. How about this one? Say I haven't filed taxes since 2020 Which is no big deal. We've all been there, right? And I've made several hundred transactions across 10 plus platforms sounds like my kind of trader Where would a good place to start be? First of all, does he even do you have to do anything special if you haven't filed for like 10 years? I mean, excuse me for like three or four years Well, if you want to square up with the government agencies and you don't want to expose yourself to potential problems because obviously In this hypothetical situation, you know, you have committed some form of tax fraud To put it lightly, but with coin ledger, there's nothing special you need to do and what where would a good place to start be? I would recommend Getting all of those 10 platforms that you've imported into coin ledger coin ledger will sort through all of that data And we'll show you what were your capital gains losses and income for each year since 2020 And you can look at that data. You don't have to do anything with it You don't even have to buy it from us, but you'll see it at least and you know get squared and see What your exposure may or may not be because keep in mind if you lost money Technically, you don't have a tax bill. Exactly. That's true. But now But if you do have significant income and you do want to square up with irs, you would simply amend your old tax return, right and there's Tax accountants that could help you do that or you could do it yourself We have blog content on coin ledger talking about how to amend the prior year's tax return And you'd essentially use the forms that coin ledger generates for any of those years 2020 2021 2022 And use that to amend your old tax return. Now, you may have to pay Some additional taxes that were left out on 2020 year 2021, right? But That's would be how I would recommend going about it. Um, in this type of situation Yeah, and usually like like everybody on this channel knows I was audited in 2000 Gosh, when was it 2013 or 14 somewhere around there? And they just brought me in like, hey, this doesn't this doesn't make sense to us So you have to walk us through it So I had to go into the irs office I had to bring with all my receipts and go through everything It took a week and at the end of the day or the end of the week They said, okay, you owe us and their $4,000. I'm like all that for 4,000 bucks. All right And there's also a penalty because you didn't I'm like, whatever fine, you know, and that's just kind of how it is I I mean when you're I mean unless you're like I mean, this is the kind of vibe I got from the irs agent, which was and unless you're like a big whale They don't really Want to destroy you. They just want a little bit of money And I know there's a there's a big thing on up on the hill Where somebody like senator Elizabeth Warren will say like hey these these irs or these Crypto cheats are are getting away from the capital gains. We're not I mean, I don't know how many people made a bunch of money last year. It wasn't me So we'll see how it goes from here. But I just I look at these. I'm like, it's not as bad as I think people think All right One more for jat. He says if staking hasn't hit the wallet But accumulation in the staking platform itself So let's say you're on d news with a chrono staking pool and you just let it accumulate and accumulate in your wallet What point does it trigger a taxable event? I think this one was a very tricky one It just depends on your cpa and your ideal It's just a little bit of a great area and the test is do you have what's known in the tax world is Dominion or and control over the asset meaning do you as it's incurring to your staking platform at that moment have the ability to move it if you wanted to right sometimes They're locked up and you can't But if you do have that ability it can be argued that even as it accumulates in that staking account You are incurring income but This is a great area right some people right if if there is a mechanism to cash it out from the staking account That can also at times be what's triggering the taxable event So I can't speak in a one size fits all Answer to this question But it has to do with when do you actually have ownership or dominion and control and can you move and freely Take those assets. That's technically when you've had an ascension of wealth And that's when the taxable activity or event would happen Yeah, and that's why that's one like these guys come in to kind of just say okay On this situation do this and this situation do that and then they can refer to them And then of course like if something happens with you know your government or your you know, wherever you're at You can refer to them and say this you know, these guys help me out and you know, we can go from there Uh a couple last ones. I like this question. How long can I go without filing a tax return to us before there's a knock on my door? Exactly three years and four days There is no answer to that question If there was, you know, maybe we'd have a lot less tax compliance, but I think that's Part of the problem is you never know you're just running a risk and so if you're If you want to run that risk, you know, I can't stop you But you're incurring some amount of risk by not paying your taxes You are how about this one? How do I manually input usdc given to me in a long-term loss? Sorry on a platform not supported by your site How this work out manually or just wallets? Yeah, so advice on how to manually input usdc given to me on a long-term loss I don't follow what you mean a long-term loss. Does it does it mean Maybe this is I'm just gonna guess. Maybe this is like They had bitcoin. Maybe this is in a in an ftx not an ftx less Celsius for voyeur situation Where they had to swap things over and I give them usdc or something because usually you don't have a long-term loss on a stable coin Right, exactly. That's right. So if it is tied to one of these bankruptcy cases the I would recommend you watch our prior video with jordan because we talked a lot about this but In a simple form if if you had bitcoin or some of that and then you got usdc back That is a taxable that and that can be written off on your taxes because you incurred likely a loss How to get that into coin ledger? You could manually import it essentially saying hey, I bought one bitcoin for xyz and I got back to this much of usdc for it Our guides on the Celsius one that we linked in this video as well as our guide on voyeur We'll walk through the mechanics of that if it is tied to one of these bankruptcies But you can mainly get that into coin ledger, even if we don't get support it Automatically Gotcha. How about this one? I'm also curious about transaction fees. Is that included in coin ledger? I forget Yep. Yeah, so transaction fees will either add to your cost basis Or reduce from your proceeds depending on the transaction itself Which in either way is going to reduce your tax liability. So they are all factored in and When we factor them in we're lowering your taxes for you Yeah, especially if you're using ethereum, you're probably broke. So let's see. How about this one? Uh, talk about First and first out last and first out Can you change during selling and you did you did a pretty good example of this in the last video if you just run through that real quick Yeah, so sandy is referring to inventory costing methods and it's essentially The the algorithm that coin ledger and any accountant would manually manually do to determine Which asset and which tax lot you're selling so a quick example Let's say I've bought bitcoin three times in my life I bought one at 10,000 I bought the second at 20,000 and about the third at 30,000 dollars Let's say then I go sell one. Well, which of those three am I actually selling off? Right because you need to know that to determine your capital gain or loss And so if we're using fifo first in first out throw back to accounting 100 classes You're going to sell off the first bitcoin that you acquired which in the example I just gave was 10,000 dollars if you sold a 50k, that's a 40,000 capital gain you incurred But if you're using life out last in first out, I would sell off the third bitcoin I acquired Which I said I acquired it for 30,000 dollars in my capital gain in that case would only be 20,000 dollars, right? so You know, you can determine the costing method that you want to use in coin ledger I would recommend keeping that consistent year to year because you don't want to double dip on which tax lot the algorithm is pulling from In a period of rising prices Fifo is going to lead to a higher taxable outcome in a period of declining prices fifo would lead to a lower tax bill so research it discuss with your tax professional which Method you want to use but then I would recommend sticking to a specific one Gotcha. How about this one? Are you responsible for the previous year's crypto income tax if you never filed or can you just blame somebody else? You are scot-free you don't have to know. Yes, you are responsible for your income in all years Not just crypto all income earned in the u.s. Is subject to tax and you're responsible for paying taxes on that Exactly. How about this one? I got four different centralized exchanges Can coin ledger calculate my total cost average across all I think I'll let me take this one So if we're looking at your portfolio tracker, I mean just in the portfolio tracker You can I mean for this one it'll tell you the cost basis. It's multiple different exchanges I think you guys used a kraken coin base and one other one And it can tell you the cost basis. I think if you David if you drill in can't you get a yeah It actually is just right over there So that it'll say your total cost basis and then the per coin cost basis, which is just the average across all of your holdings Man, I wish this was real. Yes, 13th. I mean wish it was mine 13,000 for Vic. I'd be sweet All right, and I think let's see let me get Thank you hearts Thank you And that's it Uh, and that's it David look this was great I appreciate the the the very simplicity that we have but everybody Again, if you're looking for something to help you with taxes something to help you to you know get through this This rut there's a link in the description again The portfolio tracker is free the cost for the program itself is actually quite inexpensive I mean if you're talking about like time Look at this real quick. I could just get to it There pricing So first setup is free You just want to just look at your transactions or visions and all that stuff. That's great If you're a hobbyist like some up as far as like transactions up to 150 bucks Investor up to a thousand if you're like most of us you mentioned djens 200 bucks, but it's like unlimited Transaction 3000 plus so that's pretty reasonable for me, especially for peace of mind, but that's it for today So David, thanks again for stopping by man. We appreciate everybody links in the description And uh on your way out like and subscribe and we'll see you on the next one All right, everybody adios