 OK, so hello, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to Nikkei Session. I'm Maoko Kotani. I'm an anchor of Nikkei Plus 10, which is a nightly business news in Japan. And I will be moderating today. Today's topic is virtues and vices of a digitally connected society. Young people spend, at average, of nine hours a day consuming media, fueling unprecedented growth for information and gaming platforms. Let me give you an example. I have a friend. She has a son that goes to junior high school. He started off playing games, online gaming. And then, as dates goes by, he started to be addicted to it. He would play the game 24-7. And eventually, he would not go to school. He would not eat. He would not bathe. So finally, he had to drop out of school. And he was transferred to another school. So I would say that would be one of the vices. And plus, that kind of situation, that kind of happens all the time everywhere around the world now, that you can say, maybe it's a social phenomenon. And online gaming is now classified as a mental health disorder by WHO. So those are the vices. Now, on the other hand, virtue. One of the virtue is that online gaming could have the potential of becoming one of the Olympic Games that is upcoming in 2024, which sounds very exciting. So today, we would like to see both side virtues and vices of the digitally connected society. Before we go on, I would like to introduce my distinguished panel. I would like to start off with you from my right. He is Mr. Jun Hee Do. I will call him Jun Hee. Yes. He's a partner and CEO of Future Play in Republic of Korea. He is South Korean leading mobile gaming accelerator. He started off as an inventor, then went on to entrepreneur. And then now, he's mostly mainly investor. Go on to his right. I would like to introduce Mr. In Shulin. Now, from now on, I'll call you Shulin. He's the CEO of Hero Entertainment, People's Republic of China. His company organized largest esports tournament in China. He was originally a gamer, a grand champion of China Cup international regatta three years in a row, starting from 2014 through 2016. So he's now a CEO, but he used to be a gamer expert. And so these two are actually the supply side of the gaming, right? So I'm not under gaming accelerator. No longer. Actually, we are not investing in the gaming industries, but we are investing to a lot of media industries, too. So maybe I'm the big supplier of that kind of thing. We'll come back to that later, OK? And let me introduce this panel to my left. He is Mr. Lee Sheldon. And I would like to call you from Sheldon, from now on. And he is a director and professor of Qinghua University for internet governance. He has contributed to many critical construction projects were implemented, such as global service platform for a national domain name system, data backup centers, analysis platform, and so on. So you know the policies of. No later. We'll talk about it. And then last but not least, Ms. Amy Ogden. And she is assistant professor of human-computer interaction from Carnegie Mellon University in the United States of America. She is young scientist specialist and has a very unique way of analyzing children's facial expression by deploying AI sensors in each classroom. We'll explain that later. Yeah, which is very exciting. So you can see whether the children is happy with AI or not, or these kind of things. So she's very professionally in that field. So to start off, I would like to go from you, Junhee. As I've explained about the virtues and vices of the digitally connected society, from your point of view, what is the virtue? What is the vice? So I think there is really hard to define the vice and butch. Vice and butch, or the digital media. So every ecosystem, they have vice and butch. So we should define what is butch. And what is vice. Sometimes this is butch for some guys, but this is vice for the other guys. So I think that, for example, you just said that the one guy, they're addicted to the gaming and their life in the real world. It's a very bad thing. I think that we have much more bad things in the real world, too. So I think that there, for example, internet or the media is kind of ecosystem. So every ecosystem, I believe that, every ecosystem has their own self-healing function. So sometimes we just see the internet or media as under the other platform. So we can control that. But I think that we cannot control that media or the internet. Can you give me an example? For example, so for example, we want to eliminate every poem in the internet. But it is impossible because they always invent some new technologies, the house spreading the poems among the audience. So they're easiest ways not just making new technologies to prohibit that, but just giving them a chance to have a self-healing function inside of the internet. So what I believe is that we cannot define the bias and the virtue of the media. But what can we do is just under helping their self-healing function inside of the media, inside of the internet. So addiction is something that can be solved anyway. So for example, the cigarette. So we hate the addiction, the cigarette addictions. But if the guys, they are taking a cigarette and they can feel the real happiness, we cannot prohibit that. It's the history. So after we spreading the ideas that, hey, biologically, cigarette is so bad for your body, then the smoking ratio is dramatically decreased in every OECD country. So I think that it's a very nice example. So we cannot make some regulation. But we can help ourselves to make our self-healing function inside of the ecosystem. OK. We'll talk about the ecosystem later on. And what about you, Shilin? What is the virtue and vice of the digitally connected world? So just now, I think we heard some negative aspects. Zhong He linked the gaming to cigarette. I don't think it's a very appropriate analogy. 20 years ago, it was not a game. It was reading. It could be music. It could be sports, an athletic item. 20 years ago, all the excellent commercial product, the core objective is to set up stickiness with the consumers. That's a property of the commercial world, from Coke to LV, handbag to smartphone, Apple smartphone. And their main objective is to set up stickiness with the consumers. So actually, commerce in nature is for users to come back repeatedly to buy. So we talked about 10 years ago, we got to see young people. Due to basketball, they may drop out of school. 20 years ago, there could be young kids. Due to plays or reading novels, 24 by 7, they may stay at home refusing to go to school. And in human history, these kind of things are happening always. So gaming in this era posed challenges to many people. People say that they are addicting to young people. Don't forget. Gaming is also addicting for adults. And to look more deeply, for young kids or for adults, they bring happiness, joy as well. After all, we have such a large market. The peers are mainly adults. This is a high premium industry. Youngsters, they cannot pay their premium for gaming many times. Therefore, I think regarding gaming, in today's era, it's something new. And that fails to get the acceptance of many people. That's it. How? OK, I would like to go back to your school days. OK. You majored in, what was it? You majored in something geographic. Geographic faculty back in university. I wouldn't like to use the word dropout. But I dropped out. I dropped out. I would say most of the genius people in IT world, they do withdraw from their universities. But then from then on, you've launched your own company. You're so successful in it. Now, but before that, you were gamer. How did you, were you addicted? And how did you get out of the addiction, if you were? Firstly, I really got addicted indeed in gaming. At least I know what I want. I don't think there is such a process. I still play games. I enjoy playing games. This is a hobby. And it's still in my heart. If addiction is 100, I think it's been at 50 in my heart. I love playing games. So I think this is true for most of the users. You may like a thing, but would you give up your other things for the sake of playing games or for the sake of your hobby? I don't think so. Some people prefer fishing, but he may also spend time to accompany their family at weekends. This is not in conflict. I think playing games is simply a hobby. There might be bad parents. They may fish all day and they want to accompany their kids. This is called addiction. But if it's simply a hobby, it's not something to be worried. They may only spend two hours fishing at weekends. Different persons may have their own way of doing things. But for online games, sometimes we only look at the extreme cases. But these extreme cases should not be viewed as a general situation. It's just like in the United States, like marijuana is illegal in many states of the United States because the government believes that people can regulate themselves. But in other countries, marijuana is illegal because the government is afraid that it may affect people's health. So Amy, I would like to go back to you. I would like you to address your version and vice of digital connected society. But have you gotten some ideas from these two gentlemen here? Yes, absolutely. And speaking as one of the young scientists, I would love to bring some of the research into the conversation as well. And so from the work that we know about today, there are many virtues of being connected, of playing games, of engaging in the types of media that children are exposed to today. Could you explain a little bit about how you deploy the sensors in the classroom and what you actually earn from that? Yes, certainly. So in one of my projects in my lab at Carnegie Mellon, what we're doing is actually working to get people off of screens. So one of the reasons that in educational technology, we often like to have people on screens is because we can collect a lot of data about what they're doing. And in that way, provide them with adaptive learning opportunities. And traditionally, we've only been able to do this if children are sitting with a device, a computer, a mobile phone, what have you. And then we can process all of that data and use it to drive the learning experience. One of my projects is working on moving children off of screens and instead putting sensors in the environment so that we can collect a lot of information about what's happening during the learning experience and then provide it back to the instructor in order to help them change their practice, improve things for children, engage them in new learning opportunities in the physical world. How do you deploy the sensors? So what we do is integrate them into the fabric of the classroom. We put cameras and microphones on the walls. And we use artificial intelligence to process all sorts of things about the classroom scene. So body positions, who's standing, who's sitting, whether the teacher is looking at the board and ignoring the children or actually engaging and being warm and building relationships, where the teacher is walking throughout the class. And we can also look and see whether children are engaged, bored, frustrated, confused, and at what points in time. And in that way, we're actually able to help the students but also the teacher guide the experiences that they have. And so this is something that can be done in a classroom by physically instrumenting the space. But of course, we can also do it with devices as well. So in front of a laptop, a TV, a mobile phone, you can use the same sensors, do the same processing, and now enable us to tell is the child sitting there and fully focused on what's happening on the screen. Are they confused and they might need some support? Are they getting frustrated and angry with the experience? And so one of the things that we know is that detecting these emotional states is really critical to be able to provide the best opportunities and learning experiences for children but also could be used to detect things like where hobbies might turn to addiction to understand whether children are getting too engaged and involved and overwhelmed, blocking out the rest of their surroundings and only focusing on the media. So I guess with the school, in our school, you can actually earn big data. Yes. Of those children that may turn out to be addicted to some certain, I don't know, whatever that pops up on the screen. Yes, so this is not something we have applied our technology to yet, but absolutely, that's one of the potentials for this type of experience that you might have is sort of a detection or warning system. And so we really take care, I think, was already mentioned to make sure that there's a whole ecosystem around children involving their parents, their teachers, and others who can support them in making good decisions around media use. Well, obviously, teachers are gonna have hard time because their behaviors are watched as well, not only the children, right? Yes, they are as well. And in fact, that's one of our goals is to make professional development for teachers and ongoing regular practice so that they also can utilize this data and make sure that they're striving constantly to improve the experience for our children. I see. Okay, on to you, Sheldon. You've listened to the people from there in the digital industry, as well as he was a gamer, so he knows both sides of addiction as a gamer and supply side. And she... That is why he's very successful. Yeah, yeah, yeah, really. And well, so is Junhee. I mean, he's amazing. You were a gamer, too, before you invented? I'm just an inventor. You're just an inventor in the market. Yeah, because he's really impressive Try to make sure you're not addiction. Yeah, he's got a beautiful daughter, right? Anyway, so yeah, he was an inventor and what is so amazing is that he invented and he launched his company, so he was an entrepreneur, but then after six years, Intel acquired his company. And ever since, for a while, it was only for like two years, but he was with Intel and he was taking the lead of where to invest, which startups to invest. So now he's on his own, which is exciting. I'm going to come back to you later. Okay, so anyway, these amazing people that is actually doing analyze, providing, used to play games. Now, from your perspective, you know very much of a policy on those sides and what are the virtues and vices that you can think of from your perspective? I think it's, I don't know more about policy, but I do policy research, because you know, also my phone background is computer science, I'm a technical guy. But now I'm getting so many policy research matters because I think we need that. Just as you mentioned that Junhei is very successful to have others to be more successful, right? And I think Shuling is very successful to be a gamer, but now I hope that this year your company can be public. Yeah, so it will be very successful. And Amy is a professor to do a lot of research. I think it's very good, but how to make sure everybody can work together, right? So what kind of model we need to use to improve the state of the digital world and how to make sure that the digital world can give benefit for the human being? Yeah, I think it's a, we have a lot of discussion about the hobby or addiction. I think, you know, the internet is only birthed in 1970s and be popular in something to be major in 1980s and 90s, to be popular in the 21st century. I think everybody here, including the kid and the adult and elder person, all of the persons are kids. If we face the digital world, because the internet is a new science, I think the game is based on that. So that means everybody needs to learn how to face the new science, how to attract the different kind of information, even for the gaming information, how to make sure you can serve comfort. Is it like a digital divide sort of thing? It's not digital divide. I think it's because we cannot ignore the word to be the digital world. It's a new era. So that means if we cannot change that, just adopt that, right? If you want to adopt a digital world, that means everybody needs to learn how to face that. I think it's just a mention. Even basketball, it's a hobby or maybe it's addiction, right? So not only for games, because gaming is a fresh new thing, there are so many people who don't know how to face that. If you adopt that but make it to be a hobby, but so many people will fall in love with that, right? So they cannot adopt that. But we need to educate the people. Just like we educate our kids, right? Our kids don't know how to eat, how to play, how to learn. You need to educate them how to get more food, how to get more, you know, just like the books, the knowledge. So they need more educate. So are you saying the vices are that you have to lead more of the people come into this digital society and have them share all of those? I mean, we lack of the knowledge how to help the people to adopt a new world. New world. I think Juhi has an idea. Yeah, maybe. So I think that education can be made inside of their internet. So it's a very weird idea, but I just said that they're self-healing. Self-healing means that if we found some problems inside of one ecosystem, inside of that ecosystem, we can find the solutions too. So for example, the YouTube. So I have under the six years' dollar, she always is digging to the YouTube to find very nice videos there using her iPad. Sometimes she stopped using the YouTube application because why she found some videos related to their YouTube-looking education. So it's better to just send their looking YouTube through the within the 15 minutes that the video taught to her. So I think that our way to go to the future is just providing that type of their intrinsic, their education system inside of the media, inside of their internet. So I think that in the near future, it's very hard to differentiate the real world to the virtual world. For example, AR, augmented reality, is a technology coming up. So now we think that the gaming, as under just the objective things, that gaming is the one ingredient, one component of the real world. But in the near future, they're using augmented reality. For example, gaming or seeing email or seeing the YouTube video is combined to real world behaviors. Don't you try to take the iPad away from your daughter? So you mean... In case that she might turn out to be addicted to it. I think that it's really hard to define their addiction. So I think that the better way to get out of there, the iPad from my daughter, is just giving something, the more, the funnier things. They're going to hiking with me or they're giving some food or something, some toys. So I think the parents should know that if your children have got some addictions on the YouTube or the videos or the gaming, that you are the toxic parents. You are not giving them a better place, better their experience than their internet. So you are the worst than the internet. So yeah. I think you are very much professional. You are aware of... You can draw the line. This could be addiction. So that's the key. Yeah. So how much time is there? How we can define the addiction? So they're just turned to seeing the YouTube. They're the one hour addiction or 10 hours addiction. So as researchers, like Mrs. Ogan can define that, the guidelines or there's something like that. So it's maybe the AI can learn about their child's behaviors and pair the guidelines to their parents. Hey, I think that your babies now seem to be... Yeah. To be hardcore. So then the parents can do that. So we can build some inventions to solve this problem. Right. That's what I think. So what do you think of this inclusion? I think it's... I thought I had one of you. Oh, would you like to present? Let's give one comment on that. You know, I asked my daughter to play the iPad since one years old. Yeah. One year? Yeah, one years old. And even two years old and three years old he can see so many videos on YouTube. You know YouTube. It's you cool. You know YouTube. So I think the key point is not stop the kids to use that. It cannot be isolated. You just tell him and tell her what kind of things you can use and when you can use that. To make sure that our kids have two daughters. Ask my two daughters know how to do the self-control since they are kids. Yeah. That's the point. Yes. I think Amy, you've actually learned over the time that when to see those children growing up and more they're into games they grow up in a certain way. And how did you define that? Oh, yes. So we were talking earlier about actually some of what are the actual virtues of being engaged in gaming in the digital world. And some of the things that we were talking about from the research are the ability of games to close gender gaps, for instance. So research in the United States shows that girls have on average lower spatial reasoning skills than boys. Fortunately with further research we are able to show that these are not genetic differences but that instead a short period of time in playing games and particularly games with a first-person perspective where you're running around and navigating maps are able to eradicate the differences in spatial reasoning entirely between adult women and men. We're also talking about some of the research showing that surgeons who played a lot of video games as children actually have improved hand-eye coordination and are better able to engage in delicate, difficult motions in surgery than those who did not play games as children. And so we're actually seeing many of these positive effects as we age in how they affect our brains and our actions as adults based on the activities that we played as children. How can online gaming affect the brain like becoming a good surgeon? What do you think? Actually you see that there are lots of prejudices against gaming in this world. You call it a devil, addiction, deprivation of people's sleep, deprivation of people's learning opportunities, or you call it something very positive. You can train a surgeon to become a better surgeon in operations. Actually in the real digital world from an active entrepreneur's perspective we have our mission. We have a sense of reasonable possibility. Currently the education is lagging behind the development of IT in different Chinese schools including in some American schools in communicating with the students I realized that about 60 to 70% of the knowledge they are learning, they are gaining, they are pertaining has got no value, no significance in the future world after their graduation there is a possibility, there is a likelihood. Anyway, fundamental elementary education is a pushing force for society, physics, chemistry they are very important the cornerstones of science. However, the internet has resolved issues once you need to learn but the internet has offered the solutions already for example you have to memorize lots of things once, but now we realize that the outstanding technologies can make up for our memories already. Now we need to emphasize more your thinking capabilities and however our educational system is still emphasizing memorization actually our education should emphasize learning of the fundamentals but this something still missing in our educational system we emphasize learning in silos and in the growth process of many kids they do not know the principle suggested by Newton, by Einstein but with the development of the IT in making judgment at the fundamental level we need to base our judgment on the fundamental principles but we are learning so many things at the top level but this top level knowledge is being replaced by the internet therefore from our perspective regarding the internet you may feel it is a devil sometimes you think you may turn it into an angel it is not a devil it is in the process of human development it's a new communication means and a platform it is enhancing our efficiency let me give you a very simple example in reading news once our habit was to turn to newspapers magazines or journals but in the past five years we saw a very interesting transition already once we were reading we were readers of books we read words but now the common means of reading is short video clips or short video streams so in the same unit of time accept your contact with knowledge, information you got better intensity actually and so the conventional way of learning and today's way of learning we see major transformation in the future we will see a lot of changes already into startups do you have that kind of philosophy in you? sure I'm 100% 100% because we are now in the changing situation so as I told the literacy changed to the video I met the guy, the high school guy he wrote some AI course so AI programmer so I just said how you can learn about AI he just answered me you too it's much easier to get some information rather than the words you go on to the streaming so I think that the human brain is now evolving together with the internet I'd like to call that co-evolution so we evolve the internet and internet also evolve our brain so we are now co-evolved together so for example even me it's really hard to read their text but it's much easier to just see the video clips how to do that but I think that in the near future the video should be evolved to the other form for example the augmented reality can overlay some videos for the real thing at that time we do not need to just type in the poor text so if you find there is some way how to use this bottle then you should type in how to use this bottle but using the augmented reality you just seeing this bottle then you can see how to use this bottle so it's kind of the co-evolution it's the final form of the merging the human brain to the internet or something like that that's my belief I think that updated with the AR augmented reality have you have you invented anything else further so my former company was the AR company so as you know for example the Facebook the face tagging so once we should type in the names everybody's names but now the AI of the Facebook can recognize your face at once so we did that yes I'd just like to differ from my colleagues a little bit in thinking that creating videos are now transforming the way we interact and learn the research shows that this is really no different from print and reading in books if you are a highly motivated self-sufficient learner who has the prior knowledge and the capability to go watch a video and gain something out of it that works for you but it doesn't lead to an equitable future where all children have the ability to gain from these experiences and so what really supports children this is not saying that this is a vice but it's amplifying what's currently happening in traditional education and so the way that we can use technology to transform the future to a more positive one is to create experiences that are social and connected interactive and constructive where children are actually engaging in activities in using what they know in trying exercises and trying them with their peers with adults and those are the experiences online that actually lead to the virtues of a digitally connected society you were agreeing do you think that's possible though I mean digital world is only by it's within that world and by connecting with the society maybe using AR that might become possible but would you like to talk about this would it be possible in this land there's industry industry more of a regulated so professor I think is a different kind of views so you know I want to first point I want to say that we don't need to be scared for the digital world and don't need to make the digital world to be a different world it's no difference theoretically our brain we didn't get data from eye, nose skin and the data will be used to merge into information and information will be used for computing to be the knowledge the knowledge will improve our smart and the intelligence so I think for the procedure there's no difference if you what kind of data and information you get you may get information from the book from the video from TV or from internet or future AR VR so that may be very fantastic ways for you to get more data and more information but for your brain we are human being, we are not a computer so if there's so many data so many information for you you cannot justify what kind of data is useful that's why there's so many people get involved in the game to be some addiction on that so because it cannot justify what kind of data should be used for himself so I agree with that we need to know how to learn even give an interactive video so you don't know how to learn and that's not enough so Shuin, how did you learn because first of all I learned from a game the game is okay the game is very good for education I think it's very very good to us because now as a CEO he's socializing without there, whatever but then started off as a gamer which will be totally a digital world now I know there's a huge contrast to and how did you balance those how is there any way that you can give an advice to children out there that might be addicted to it now but eventually they would have to grow up I think if a kid is addicted to a game we will first look at the percentage of this kid this is very important so in a country if there's a high percentage of kids playing games there might be two factors that would be important the first family education and the second is social education if the younger generation in a country is higher than the other country I think we don't need to look at the individual cases we need to look at the general situation people might do many extreme things because of his hobby but this is only individual cases but we need to look at the overall percentage and just now everyone is saying that we have both pros and cons so I think this percentage is very important if there is a very high percentage this means that there is a problem with the family education kids who love the KFC and McDonald's and also lower than the young kids love cigarettes I think I think we still need to look at how they control themselves and how much time they spend on this matter I emphasise that whether it's a McDonald's, a KFC a family education and social education are the most important factor for the influence of online games to the kids so if I have a very fulfilling life in real world then I don't think there will be a big impact of online games on me first of all I love playing games I admit I spend a lot of time playing games however I also spend equal time to get education so I'm very happy that my school gave me proper education and my teachers also offered a great deal of help so I can get interested in what I learn when I was younger I thought education was not boring I was willing to learn despite a lot of time spent on playing games I know this would be a problem if I get addicted but this kind of playing games didn't affect my ability to get knowledge I would like to come back to you Sheldon regulations is it necessary and what sort of regulation I need it especially for game for addiction I don't want to speak how to make policy directly I think in the future there is very important three players here one is the industry by entrepreneurs one is gamma and one is the academia professors so I don't want the entrepreneurs to take more social responsibilities the main responsibility is to to push the world the economy and for the government in the government need to take more responsibilities and to give more policy make more policy to support the industry but also support the public interest academia professors need to give more suggestions to analyze the problem and give more policy recognition to the government and also work together with the industry to find the problem and give them suggestions I don't mean every stakeholders need to 100% do their role I don't want don't take the responsibility for social good but we didn't know the main responsibility my suggestion is the different stakeholders need to work together and we need to educate the kids we need to push the new technologies to benefit for the human being and also we need to educate the government officials to know there is a future so then the key point is the model is to make sure the multi-stay holders can really work together to make the policy and make sure that necessary technology can support the policy department I think that would be better for us to face the new digital world okay Junhee I would like to we don't have much time but we would like to go to the future of this digitally connected society and I'm sure you're optimistic yes and how do you see how do you visualize something that we can't see yet the ways to evolve to the future technologies let me think about the PC so we cannot see our emails when you're in the meeting room we should go back to the PC room and check my emails now we can do that everywhere because of the smartphone so that's why it's not because of the technology it's because of our desire we are now connected to the others every time so that's why the smartphone is so popular among us so I believe that sooner or later the technology will provide much better the tools for us to connect it to each other so maybe that occurs some situation that is very hard to differentiate the real world to the virtual world just on giving some information overweight on the real information that virtual information is belong to the real world so I think there is time to think about how to manage this situation now we think that we can install some filter on the internet servers or your smartphones that we can prevent their addictions that's our belief but when we face the future the near future I think within 10 years we are facing some mixture of the virtual and the real world so how can we handle this someone think that I want to use some virtual world some ingredients, the features to enhancing my real world experience so who decided that is kind of addiction so I think that we should talk about with the academia guys or the government guys the dealing about this situation for example the IOT so we have some NFC tag on their existing real physical things connecting them to the internet already it just started so it will be great now that we are just thinking about their internet or mobile or gaming as under the ingredients as a part of the real world but I think there is very equivalent world we have a two world we belong to both of the world so we should make some common sense on this situation it's hard to imagine yet because we are now in the real world and trying to control to access to the digital world and probably it depends on each human beings that maybe some might be committing 80% of their lives to digital world maybe 20 so by you telling us that there is a combination of both and we don't know 100% both so that will be very difficult to imagine but I guess that's the future for example I'm always seeing my email client checking my email for my mom so I'm sharing my time 100% in the real world and also spending my time 100% on their internet world too but I think it's very hard to differentiate how do you see the future well I think some of the topics that have been discussed here are where we need to head so the idea that many stakeholders are involved in this issue and we need to come together Junkie mentioned the issue of guidelines and actually there have been guidelines put out for this by the American Pediatrics Association however they're not necessarily reaching the majority of parents who are intended to implement them so one other way that we might address this is to give better tool kits to understand not just how much time should be spent online but what types of activities should be done and are beneficial and what they lead to so the types of things I was talking about earlier whether an experience is social is connected is active or constructive all of these things could actually be put out should we come up with the set that we would like to see that we know lead to beneficial outcomes we could then ask industry to rate themselves on these issues and provide that information to parents so they can help make decisions for their children about what exactly what types of activities online they would like them to engage in so instead of parental control not that having industry actually rate for example like moving maybe AI can do that or we could ask the algorithms to do it but this is one thing that we need to understand is whether we're all working together towards a future in which online experiences that children have are positive ones that lead to societal benefits and good and in that way we can work together to make sure that the algorithms we build the underlying technologies are actually helping us head in that direction just like rated R, rated PG like movies right so that's what you float from the supply side I hate that part okay could you present address your future what do you say the future of digital society yeah maybe I would be much more optimised than others so the god give us a lot of present the food, water, the environment and the biggest present is the internet so internet bring us so many information it will enhance our capability for human beings but the unlucky for us is give this present too late so we need to spend a lot of time to learn how to use that but the human being is very strong I think so we can work together to learn how to deal with so many bad things and to get the better things I do believe that the digital world will improve our life and also will increase the intelligence for the whole human being so just to believe that and rely on that and trust on that I think your perspective is pretty much like Jungi that it's an ecosystem that you call or it comes in nature that the problems will be solved in the digital world from this land they never use the digital world they just use that there is a new generation and there is a young entrepreneur after the 1980s so it's a different generation 1980s 1980s it's a new generation and maybe the people my daughters totally different world they have a different knowledge Jungi was mentioning about that about your father and yourself and your daughter we are living in the same physical world and living in a different virtual world their experience is totally different and their brain is maybe totally different to reacting to their situation so your father had to think on his own right you had support of between two generations I'm in TV and I'm sure you've been watching TV a lot Netflix we were the generation that were addicted to it that's right so maybe your daughter generation will be totally internet when somebody more chips was embedded in their body you will connect the physical world with the physical world glasses lastly last but not least at the very end how do you see the future here entertainment is actually in three segments you're actually producing games and you are doing tournaments everywhere it's divided into three segments I've downloaded the records of Three Kingdom I've downloaded the Warrior Saga it's not for me it was so complicated everything just moved so fast and so I could see there is four teenagers and millennial people how do you see the future of your industry we were talking about the sense of responsibility for entrepreneurs especially for IT entrepreneurs or startup entrepreneurs in the beginning before our discussion you mentioned that by 2024 the gaming could become part of Olympic Games how it will take place depending on our industry's promotion and professionalism of gaming IT we are making a lot of money but we are not creating many job opportunities that's the biggest issue for the internet so people are worried about the internet and they do not want to have too much contacts with the internet because if you contact too much you cannot resolve your job problem you could not make more money that's why people are scared gaming if a kid loves football soccer maybe he could become a soccer player in the future if he enjoys gaming you worry what kind of job he will engage in if he loves watching a movie maybe he could be a playwright and actor but as an entrepreneur our biggest responsibility is to promote the professionalization so we can offer more job opportunities to give the younger generation so that they won't be worried about this sector it's because in the past 5 years I have been developing very quickly in my perspective it's not because 200 million viewers are watching the game so the biggest value is for many people to see the hope last month I was in Indonesia in Jakarta I was watching the Asian Games and Chinese kids were participating in Esports game and they got the gold award their parents were very excited because 10 years ago and these kids were being given up by the kids but these kids are doing something wonderful beyond the imagination promoting the professionalism professionalization of the industry will see better acceptance by the whole society maybe in the future every entrepreneur on the internet involved in IT has to think about social responsibility how they can create more jobs for more people so that people won't be pressured to think my kids are watching YouTube all the time that makes them nervous no parents would think so in the future because when I was reading my parents were not nervous in the past yeah we're running out of time I'm sorry and I can see the bright side now and I would just like to share with you according to survey Esports observers were overall 320 million people in 2016 and potentially increased up to 590 million people in 2020 so thank you very much and thank you all audience for joining us please give them a big hand thank you so much