 If you are curious, if you may have some autism spectrum traits that someone missed, I'll have some online screening tools listed in the description and they're freely available. If you score high on any of the tools and your symptoms or manifestations are causing problems for you in your work, school, relationships or with your ability to feel mentally well, then you should see a professional, preferably a therapist or psychiatrist, who has experience diagnosing and treating ASD. Yeah, you want to try and find someone who is like, who actually knows what they're doing. Like, you're taking a gamble going through general healthcare and it is quite expensive to go for private diagnosis, but I picked up on what she said, don't be trying to diagnose yourself from people from the internet. I think she's making a little bit of a nod to self-diagnosis, which I understand, you know, as a professional, a medical person, whatever kind of sort of doctor it she has, makes sense that she would have that approach to things. I think it's a little bit kind of, it's not really factoring in like how much autistic people can can help in that process as well. I'd really consider both going through this route, doing those tasks if you want to, and also talking to autistic people and learning from autistic people. You can do both. You should do both. We have this one here from Dr. Tracey Marx. I think I've reviewed one of her videos before. Very big YouTuber, 1.5 million subscribers. Wow, that's a lot. Wish I could get up to that, to that level of subscriptions. Man. I don't think I was very happy with the last one, but she's a medical person, so she has a lot of medical terminology and stuff. It's not always including parts of the autistic community within the video, but we'll see. This is Dr. Tracey Marx, attention deficit hyperactivity disorder, ADHD, versus autism, how to tell the difference. A lot of co-occurringness between ADHD and autism. Tell the difference between autism spectrum disorder, ASD, and attention deficit hyperactivity disorder, ADHD. That's what I'm talking about today. I'm Dr. Tracey Marx, a psychiatrist, and I make mental health education videos. Today's question is based on several viewer questions asking me to talk about this. ADHD and autism are neurodevelopmental disorders. Neurodevelopmental means that they start early in childhood and affect how your brain grows and functions. Examples of neurodevelopmental disorders include ADHD, autism spectrum disorder, or ASD, an intellectual developmental disorder, and learning disorders. I don't know. Does psychopathy feel like a neurodevelopmental thing? It's definitely a genetic thing. I don't know if you can consider it neurodevelopmental, though. I guess it kind of is. It is common if you have one to have another one. In fact, there's a high prevalence with autism spectrum who also have ADHD. The reverse is not as common for people with ADHD to also have ASD. But people with ADHD can have features of autism spectrum without having the complete disorder. Both disorders are highly genetic, meaning the genes from them are passed down through families. Before comparing the two disorders, let's look at autism spectrum disorder. ASD is a spectrum disorder because there are many features of it. The features can be grouped into two categories, problems with social communication and relating to others, and restricted, repetitive patterns of behaviors, interests, or activities. This is the category that includes being hyper or hypo reactive to sensory experiences. Usually not termed as hypo or hypo reactive, it's hypo or hypersensitive. Here's another way of looking at the symptoms on a spectrum. Going from left to right, you have language, which is social communication skills such as body language, eye contact, and small talk just to name a few skills. Then there is social awareness, which is the ability to read the room, pick up and follow social norms like saying hello to someone who walks up to you. Next is narrow interest. This is a tendency to narrowly and intensely focus on a niche interest and have trouble shifting tasks or activities. Also called monotropism. You haven't seen that before. Just watch earlier in the stream or catch one of one of the clips that go out. Very interesting video from I'm Autistic, what now? Information processing is the ability to learn new information and apply it to different situations. Sensory processing is a person's response to sensory input like sounds, smells, tastes and textures. Some people can be hyper reactive to certain sensory inputs and hypo reactive to others. Repetitive behaviors is a tendency to stem in response to different emotions. Stimming refers to self stimulation behaviors like hand flapping, rocking or blinking. The last column is neuro motor. The repetitive aspects of it can also be perhaps a little bit more akin to routine as well, I would say. Like the restrictive, because it's restrictive behaviors and thinking. So routine would definitely come under that. It refers to the ability to control your motor movements. And this can range from being clumsy to having little control over intentional movements, including bowel and bladder control. A person can have a range of different functioning in all of these categories such that some categories may not be as affected as much as others. So in each of these areas, the person with autism spectrum disorder has something going on that is divergent from what is considered standard. If you think of these columns as a slot machine, you pull the handle and it turns each column to a different level of function. So each pull of the handle can turn up a different presentation of the disorder, which is why everyone with ASD is unique. For example, let's look at the language column. One person may not be verbal at all, but is able to pick up on social cues. Whereas another person can communicate, but tends to miss social cues and interrupt people when they're talking. Yes. A third person may also be verbal and communicative. The interrupting one talking I think is a lot more to do with processing than interrupting. I mean, some people do like just cut people off, but I'd say that is more of like a compensation for not being able to know like, or knowing time like when is your time to speak, etc. But has trouble interpreting sarcasm and metaphors. For that person, for optimal communication, they need you to be clear and use direct words. There's a lot of overlap between ASD and ADHD. The person who only has ADHD may have a few of these features, but not all. The person with ASD will have a functional change in all of the areas to some degree, and they may or may not have problems with attention, impulsivity, and hyperactivity. I mean, she's referring to a lot of these things in terms of functioning. I would say that using the characterization of differences would be a little bit more applicable, because they've done studies on it. The social differences that we have are not always just apparent to be just our issue because they're very much dependent on the norms that are around us. And sometimes, well, I mean, there's studies on it, like autistic people communicating with each other, they tend to do pretty well. When it comes to interacting between the neurotypes, it tends to be difficult. I've talked about it quite a bit before, so I won't go into it too much, but let's continue. Which are problems that come along with ADHD. Let's look at some of the overlapping symptoms between ADHD and ASD. And this analysis is not all inclusive, as this is a very big topic with a lot of subtleties. So to keep it simple, I'll be covering the major areas. People with ADHD and ASD both have executive dysfunction, like being oblivious to time, emotional dysregulation, and trouble getting things started. Is emotional regulation part of executive dysfunction? I don't think so, maybe. The executive function aspect of it is, I think, a lot to do with transitional difficulties, as well as managing lots and lots of different things. I think the idea of time blindness happens a lot more for autistic people, because we tend to get really hyper-focused on things. And when you are in that state of flow, that kind of flow state that's talked a lot about in the working world, you do lose your sense of time a little bit more. Both people with ADHD and ASD also have trouble picking up on social cues, but for different reasons. The ADHD person may miss social cues because of trouble paying attention to the entire conversation or hijacking the conversation topic by interrupting and going off on a tangent. On the other hand, the person with ASD may have social interaction problems, because they don't understand the subtext messages from body language, or they may get overwhelmed with the sensory demands of chit-chatting. That's a very, very good sort of important point there. I'd say that is one of the biggest differences. I do know some people who are just ADHD, and they do zone out of conversations when I'm speaking, or they'll hijack the conversation and take it on a crazy tangent. Sometimes that happens. I've experienced that. I mean, you just have to watch some of my podcast episodes. I mean, if you watch the podcast with any of the ADHDers, not all of them, of course, because everyone's different and everyone has grown in various different ways and different contexts and understood themselves a bit better. But some people that I have talked to, it tends to go that way. It's very, very difficult sometimes when you're trying to interview someone. Also, the person or if the person thinks very literally, they may miss important social signals or subtle messages. You can see the difference in the reasoning behind the problems, even though the end result is similar. Self-stimulation is another overlapping trait that anyone can use to reduce anxiety or to help with focus, but it's used more consistently in people with ASD. Sometimes people can mistake stemming behavior for hyperactivity, like shaking your legs or feet under a desk or fidgeting. The difference comes from the reason behind the activity. The person with ADHD may fidget to help them focus, even though it may be also calming and soothing. The person with ASD, if asked, will usually tell you that something in the environment is making them uncomfortable and they need to fidget to feel better. A good sort of deviation, I suppose. I mean, when we were looking at the video from I'm Autistic What Now on Autistic Monotropism, that was kind of one of the reasons why I sort of differed. I think she said that she might be ADHD, ADHD and Autistic. ADHD does do find that it helps them focus when they do those repetitive kind of stimming behaviors, but stimming is used as a self-soothing mechanism. That is the main thing about it, and it's not something that is totally ADHD and autism. Neurotypicals do it too. We just tend to get overstimulated a lot easier. We also have different sensory profiles, meaning that some of our senses can be under-stimulated, and so being able to stimulate them is good, just like a feedback mechanism for us. It helps us get that input. Or the behavior can be so automatic that they can't always tell you that there's something bothering them. They just need to do the behavior. Also, with ASD, it's usually not random fidgeting, like clicking a pen top or doodling. It tends to be more intense with a repetitive pattern like rocking, a difference. And specific as well. If you have a stim, tend to do that stim a lot. It tends to be particular things that you do. It's not necessarily like kind of hyperactivity. I need to do something and fidget. It's not fidgeting, I would say. Between ADHD and ASD is, with ADHD, you seek out novel and new experiences, and you can become bored with routine, but with ASD, you're comforted by familiarity and routine. Both of these disorders show some signs in childhood because of how they affect brain development, but both disorders may not be diagnosed until adulthood, especially if your symptoms were manageable for you to get by without professional help. This is a really interesting part because this video is about how to tell the difference between the two, but because there is such an overlap, the ADHD experience is like a whole different kind of kettle of fish. If you can imagine someone who is comforted by routine, but also wants to constantly break out of that routine, it's going to be very, very difficult to keep yourself grounded and keep feeling happy and okay. I'm also the type of person who I do like my routine, but I also do go through phases of wanting to kind of break out and try new things and experience new things and break out of that routine. That is definitely something that happens to me. It's not like I just want to do the same thing over and over every day of the rest of my life. I actually do have time set aside to be impulsive, especially on the weekends. I'll set myself a couple of days where I'll be like, okay, I don't really have a set routine. I don't necessarily feel bad about that. It's kind of like setting a routine to have no routine. You give yourself impulsivity time. I don't know if I am ADHD or ADD as well as being autistic. It's not something that I've fully explored, but I also find routine boring sometimes. It really helps me and so I try and keep it up. It's important to me. Of the inattentive form of ADHD without hyperactivity, you may not come to the attention of teachers because you don't pose discipline problems, but you may be underperforming with Cs and Ds just enough to pass your classes. Sadly, no one questions if you are capable of more because maybe they've put you in the lazy poor effort category and just let you flounder. It's not until you have more serious problems like keeping up with work or feeling emotionally unstable that you seek professional help. I talk about some of the ways that ADHD can look different in adults in this video. As for autism spectrum, the symptoms appear when children aren't meeting their developmental milestones like they're still wearing a diaper in first grade or have social communication problems or intense meltdowns from sensory overload. These children will usually come to the attention of a pediatrician or maybe a child therapist to be evaluated and diagnosed early, but without obvious problematic behaviors, you may go undetected or undiagnosed until adulthood. That goes for both ADD, ADHD and autism, especially women on the autism side of things. With ASD, one of the problems with getting diagnosed is the variability in the presentations and doctors aren't trained as well to notice the subtle signs. Also, standard medicine focuses more on pathology than wellness. So even if your doctor notices that you have a different speech pattern and you obsess about things and need to self-soothe in response to certain sounds, all things suggesting ASD, your doctor still may not intervene unless these behaviors are causing problems for you like keeping up with the job or forming relationships. 100%. I bring that back to one of the posts that I did recently. I posted it on YouTube, I also posted it on Instagram. Doctors don't diagnose you for your identity, they diagnose problems. If you don't have a problem, they won't be picked up, they won't put you forward for a diagnosis. That's an issue because you're basically just waiting for that person to have a problem. They usually do. It's usually like in the mid-20s, early, late 20s in that range. That's when things tend to be a problem for people who are different. Things catch up to them, something bad happens and they can't cope and spirals and then they need to pour and sometimes they don't get it, sometimes they don't consider autism and they really should have. It's important to identify and I wish doctors were a little bit more proactive in that sense. Another way ASD can go unaddressed is if you have one of the common comorbid disorders that can accompany ASD like social anxiety, depression, OCD or even complex trauma. If you do struggle with any of these, chances are your doctor will treat you for those problems and not screen you for ASD. I don't recommend trying to diagnose yourself based on learning things on the internet. However, if you are curious, if you may have some autism spectrum traits that someone missed, I'll have some online screening tools listed in the description and they're freely available. If you score high on any of the tools and your symptoms or manifestations are causing problems for you in your work, school, relationships or with your ability to feel mentally well, then you should see a professional, preferably a therapist or psychiatrist, who has experience diagnosing and treating ASD. Yeah, you want to try and find someone who is like, actually knows what they're doing. Like you taking a gamble going through general health care and it is quite expensive to go for private diagnosis, but I picked up on what she said, don't be trying to diagnose yourself from people from the internet. I think she's making a little bit of a nod to self diagnosis, which I understand, you know, as a professional, a medical person, whatever kind of sort of doctor she has, makes sense that she would have that approach to things. I think it's a little bit kind of, it's not really factoring in like how much autistic people can can help in that process as well. I'd really consider both going through this route, doing those tasks, if you want to, and also talking to autistic people and learning from autistic people. You can do both, you should do both. You can tell them you took an online screen and scored high and you're looking to see what options there are for getting help. If you print out the results, you can have some good talking points for the clinician. And if they don't think that you have the disorder, they can explain the discrepancy between your answers and their clinical impression, and they can help you understand why they don't think you have the disorder. If you want more on... Yeah, and you should really press them if they come up with some BS excuse. If they don't understand what masking is, like make sure they understand what masking ask them. Do you understand what masking is? And I didn't get like a good explanation of it. Ask them what a lake's a fly mirror is. You know, ask them about these really kind of key points, key light factors in autism that you know a lot of them don't know. If they turn you away just because you make a lot of eye contact and you're masking, they're not competent. Just because they have certain letters to their name, perhaps perhaps practical experience as well, does not mean that they are competent. It varies very much, very much person to person in these fields. And it's a very subjective thing to get an autism diagnosis. A lot of the aspects of it is quite subjective, actually. ADHD, watch my playlist that includes adult ADHD and emotional dysregulation, a more detailed explanation of executive dysfunction, and what happens in the brain that causes people to have low motivation. I also have a skills management playlist teaching you techniques for time management and finishing tasks. Thanks for watching. See you next time. So that was Dr. Tracey Marks' attention deficit hyperactivity disorder versus autism. I had to tell the difference. Pretty box down the video. I thought she'd go a little bit more in detail with that. She kind of gave an overview of autism and then gave an overview of ADHD and then like presented like a couple of things. I was hoping that there'd be a bit more to delve into.