 Yeah, this is the event we have over at the conference organization. I'm not sure what's going to happen here, but I want to say something to you. It's your problem now. You still have some money to work with. The basic idea behind this thing was that these 17 list some mistakes that have been made or things that could be improved or things that did work very good. So the Argentinian team doesn't make the same mistakes that we did and probably gets a better type of or something. This was learning which page. We've seen the wiki, but they broke the door. Wait, we're recording this or not? Because if we are, let's stick to the map. If we're not, then that's probably my problem. I don't think we should follow up. Maybe things you put together for sure. Yeah, I don't know. Parts program that will write down on everything. I'm happy to answer all of them. I'm happy to answer all of them. I'm happy to answer all of them. I'm happy to answer all of them. Let us know if that's what you need. Write in the comments. Then we'll put it in the wiki page. Start the wiki page. Which wiki? We use the Bitcoin wiki. One thing the video team noted was that there was not much talk and speaker management or some speakers complained to me that they came here and didn't know what they were supposed to do. There were no introductions to the speakers. Taking care of the talk ends was also done by the video team part, but the video team has to concentrate on video and not managing the talks. That should be improved next year. Is there a reason why we had four talks at the same time? I think that was kind of bad for the video team and also bad for talk management. I think it would have been better to have less places. I think we have a good point there. We need the four places because they were full most of the time. There is activity for all the places, but the video team maybe should concentrate only on taking the official talks and leaving the booths as on sale. Because even though we take the quality of what you can get in the bathroom is way below what you get at the talk ends, you get there shh shh shh all the time and shh shh shh shh. We have plans to increase the audio setup for the booth rooms as well. We actually don't have those stores. We have sessions on them. What is the one in the session? What are we going to do? We are going to have a discussion with the people who are involved in the talk and we will be back with the next session. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I'm just going to wake up what the session is meant to be for. It's just lots of little details. I'm not sure we need to let the video team stop. As I said in the beginning, the session is for giving over from DevCom 7 to the DevCom 8, the head over, and listing things that could be improved in the future. So if you have something to list, feel free. The DevCom 7 team we are going to do what we like. So we are going to get the report out and tell some ideas about what we could have done better in quite a quick time frame. We are still actually doing the conference at the moment. I said you could say a lot about how we could do accommodation better, but it's this bitch. It might not go on tonight again anyway. Then I'll have more to say tomorrow. I think if we have four talk rooms, people will always get buffs in there or what not. What we want for the video team to comment about next year is that we can have a flag for each event and say this will not be videotaped, which can be either requested by the person giving the buff or what the video team will say, we will not videotape the listing buff. So it doesn't show up. And also this movie will always have that. Thank you. Chairman. Chairman, come on. Well, that wasn't the case. What I wanted to say, perhaps it is a must to just do audio recording for the buffs, if it is possible, to make them, give them some, I don't know. This is one remark. And the other remark is for the talks. I don't know really if there is a need for introducing the speaker. He can probably do it himself with three sentences. And the video team to show up this 10 minutes left and also they can read it on their tape if it is finished. Or if it is about to finish, they can do it perhaps. So we can save some people, organize the talk. So I don't know. I don't think it was really bad this year. Okay. No, no, no, I would like to know what it is possible. Everything is possible, but is it desirable? Well, okay. First, I would like to reply to you. Yes, of course, we don't have to have somebody to introduce the speaker. But on the other side, it is nice to introduce somebody and it is important to let the people in the video team focus on the video team. For example, we always have to get a volunteer from the audience to run around with the microphone. And the video team has to keep an eye on the five minute signs. We need a person responsible for the room regardless if they think or not. Now, I want to go back to something that I was going to say. If Morey plans on living as he always does in the middle of the session, I think it's important for us to know even if we're still in the middle of everything and we don't have the final words on anything who plans on staying in the team, who says, okay, that's it, I don't count the minutes here, whatever. So, I'd like to see who stays in. Okay, we're optimistic. Good. I'm having chairs for some talks. Like, for example, three talks would be with one chair and then he could also or she could also take care of the timing of the talk. Yes, but that's using in asking the detail. It's okay, Mike. When I raised this point, it was about do we need four places for talks at the same time? All the raised just details that we can work out. But my question is, for next year, do we need four spaces or are two, like in Helsinki or like in Mexico, are two places enough? Or do we need four? That's my question. The thing is, both were not supposed to be talks. Two for talks? I'll say this year, certainly, when we set up this, I wasn't actually expecting us to have four sessions scheduled against each other the whole time. I mean, one of those rooms available, but I expected both rooms to be used a lot more just as extra havoc space and so on than they actually were. I didn't realise so many. I mean, in the number of talks as well, and just filling up every day entirely with talks. So on a personal level, I was not expecting so many events against each other in that way, but there's always an argument of, if people want to give talks, should you just let them do it, or do you say, well, no, you can't really stop them? I think you can stop them, because if we have the both rooms, they would say, oh, great, there are now five people doing Debbie and Matt here. Let's just have a both. It's a mental and it's just there. I think maybe three rooms might be enough if there are less people in Argentina, depending on how many people register for the next appointment. But I also don't think it's a real problem to have four talks going on. People prefer both to work together and don't go to the talk. The thing is, a both is a very important figure. I mean, the kind of work that you do during a talk is completely different from what you do during the both. And I would say we're having at least two spaces. I mean, the same amount of spaces for one kind of work, then for the other, but not committing to date everything or give the same infrastructure to everything, maybe not even scheduling so strictly. The thing is that many people can't come to the talk and many of those people work in groups and they use the string to be on the both, which are usually decision-making reunions and stuff like that. So I think both are really important and they should be at least as true as if not maybe taken or edited or what not. I would like to agree with Conor that the both are not so formal and that if the people who are in the both not manage to inform the other who can't attend without the videos and something is giving them. So I think talks will be fine for their calling but there should be two parallel rooms but not recalling them. Next point, please. Shall I go over some problems we've had this year? I think one of the big problems we've had this year is difficult with the amount of volunteers we've had, with the short numbers of the amount of work we're trying to do. Sorry, can people speak to you? Yeah, sorry. We have very low numbers of people, volunteers and organisation teams and communications are quite difficult with what we've had and certainly over the last couple of days we've not had much track of who's here, who's doing what who's in charge of something. The main point is you really need someone you need someone to be in charge purely of keeping track of what's going on and that person really has to be dedicated to that. That's a big commitment because if DevCon goes for two weeks you're also going to have to have a week beforehand where there's a lot of activity going on there's a lot of things arriving you need equipment to set up so if a week before DevCon you've got DevCamp, you've got DevCamp and they're probably going to be shattered for another week afterwards and have to sleep so if that's like someone taking a month of their life to dedicate to DevCon you're going to need a lot of resource from a certain core a lot of dedication from some core members I'm sorry, too fast so certainly communications it was difficult this year if we had things like better radios that might have helped a lot we had some radios here that weren't working correctly so we weren't working correctly so we've not been using the radios so if everyone in the team if you had the details of this person is in charge of someone this person is in charge of this this person is in charge of that and you've all got radios you can communicate a lot more effectively communications were poorer this year and it makes things quite difficult and you can see we're all sitting here in this booth and if you open sections and they're structured it takes a lot of time when people have to advocate a lot of time and I've noticed also in our continued meetings we can sit there for two hours with an order team meeting and not get through very much and that's two hours for maybe 10 people you've ruined the distribution of communications that's coming forward for next year I understand two things we need more organization and we need radios in the opportunity radios but also better structure these really clear structures of who's doing what and you need someone managing that structure whoever is actually able to who can dedicate the whole time throughout has to keep track of that because I think we needed a bit more of that maybe Marcela can you comment on the work you did with volunteers back here no but because you were in charge of that and you did it what's the best okay there were nearly no local team so I know and I managed with people that volunteered from everywhere that's what I did okay sorry I didn't want to throw a hot container on you no last year Marcela was a volunteer coordinator we did have it but as she says even having a coordinator may not be enough we may need to think how to enforce that structure because I have rethought all over what happened then we had a lot of local volunteers yes that were there during the days of the conference not before we didn't have people planning we didn't have people load balancing but during the conference we had 20, 30 Mexicans who had no relation with the project and many people from inside so the thing is we had a coordinator but we didn't have a structure for that so maybe he's not abandoning the coordinator but creating something around I think what were this year was that we had mostly daily meetings of the Ogre team which can keep the structure intact and help them really the whole we got camp and depth conf make them short but make them that really, really helped go back to your point about local volunteers volunteering this year we've not had that much help from some of the delegates we could have had more response from this problem but at the same time if you've got help from people who are at the conference these are people who have suddenly appeared you don't know who they are and you don't have much control for what they're doing it's useful as the areas that are resourced you can only get so much out of them if you have again if you had radios and maybe if you could give those radios what they're doing and what time they can dedicate maybe you can get more out of them and actually have them do more use we did have people who helped out did a lot of work with networking and so on but to get the maximum of use out of that it's better to know more about what people are doing why do radios you know and where is each other because you're not an Irish people cannot communicate with Irish people running around the building if you're trying to cable things up and you want to know if someone's if you are running around the building and there's a problem upstairs you need to get hold of this person and this person very quickly if you send them a message in Irish so you're not going to read that for 10 minutes or 15 minutes and the problem is in each year you're going to have to run to find them if you've got a radio and they put it out in the radio's incident you're going to get someone there and then you know who they are and you can find them and as long as people are that accessible it makes such a difference that was a big problem this year as a side note on the subject of IOC I think we had quite a lot of problems relying on that for tea meetings in the months prior to actually coming together obviously this is the issue of everyone talking at the same time but also trying to admit it correctly in last logging things can be very difficult and it's probably not possible for the next year or so but it'd be interesting to see what other methods could be used to handle tea meetings where people are all over the world they might be seeing opportunities they might be seeing better technologies for that again on the tea meetings it would be nice if there was more structures to the tea meetings you can have a standard format where you decide actions at the tea meetings and you note them down clearly what actions are meant to be doing who's meant to do them and for the next tea meeting review those actions ensure that they've done since the last tea meeting ensure things are progressing and try to establish more structure it's going to help them to move along a lot faster it wouldn't have worked a nice spot for tea meetings to take down write the minutes automatically collect to-do items and the stuff is really simple but I think it's linked on wikikabee and awkwardly what I believe it will do the other thing I think really a volunteer manager is more important than having radio links radio links are radio are a nice tool to help keeping in touch but particularly one person for the volunteers knowing who is volunteering for what and we need more volunteers for specific tasks and I'm not sure if that was said in the beginning but here also I was missing somebody who was in charge of these rooms like in the other room that the band suddenly came that was also partly the talk manager manager's role but maybe it's a room I'm not sure in press in press you can't understand the the audio for example is from here or you should bring it here we hired it's hired mostly hired some stuff from the video team and I spoke mostly to the DPA to get Debian funds to buy stuff for the video team what my proposal to buy is to fix audio for us because we have cameras which are not so good which we can get better cameras later but first have proper audio because audio is really important stuff for the talks with the videos that get better audio setup which is the same in every room then we still need for the big room still need a PA for the rest we don't need amplifier the audio the video teams are smaller but the audio team is bigger you should bring in plane to attend this is a the mixers yeah it's small enough to bring around I've seen nice setup at ACA which really is not expensive and can be carried around we should not yeah that's a detail again okay but I wanted to ask you about the layout about the characteristics of the hotel we will be at I mean because there's no much point in saying it's bad for a both room to serve also as connecting Aon like it was here that's losing details we don't want how is this hotel prepared for this I understand it's very well prepared so we will have much less problems adequate facilities to our needs yes it's a hotel that's used to having conferences it has like 50 conferences a year rooms it has rooms for 850 people for sleeping rooms for sleeping and it has 8 no 7 conference rooms but most of them are quite big they are talk rooms we probably will divide one of the big rooms into several places to have both rooms there not so big but that's the idea both are supposed not to be so big so we have like a talk room where a lot of people can go on the different smaller spaces something like that something that would be interesting maybe for you to try around or somebody else there are cameras that are specifically made for video conferencing that can be centrally controlled that can be set on the roof so you don't have people's heads across so I know we cannot buy them because they are very expensive but we may get a sponsor to lend them to us having a centrally controlled room with one video operator instead of four would be a of three it would be very nice so maybe we should look into that yeah I was thinking it's really video detail and the video team has discussed this on the writing list one thing that happened a couple times in different ways this year was we left one thing or another too late we had this sun machine shipped and it got held up in customs and we didn't get it till the middle of DEVCON a few other things popped up in the last minute because we thought they would be better than they wouldn't so something that might be useful is actually try to get something shipped to you in Argentina a month ahead of time and see how long it really takes if I had any idea sun couldn't get a machine into Great Britain I would we might have changed I don't actually care about details if it works fine that's great but I'm just I'm not in the past the very least I've had many problems getting scared off it's not just that it's a general principle but it's a big problem I don't know what you can do about that the problem with customs is not a new one we had the same problem with T-shirts in Oslo in 2003 they actually ended up costing more than the T-shirts themselves the customs so just make sure that's detail yeah that's detail just make sure this will be a problem in any country as far as I know all DEVCONs have had this problem you're shipping it too late it's like it's gifts it's been very expensive DEVCON another thing I want to mention is in Oslo we were three people in the main organizing team I was like the coordinator of all of it and we had good experience having one person in charge of the front desk that was like the front desk that was the information coordination center they would know what was going on where people were when someone was looked after they were told to go to the front desk to ask for people but of course that was a smaller venue still having one meeting place that knows what's going on it's a very valuable thing we did try to know with the front desk we did try to keep on top of things with the front desk one of the problems was actually keeping enough people informed about everything that was going on we did start up with quite a few more people involved and it was just very hard to help them keep track of all of the information that was found back before this is where we have the daily meetings but again there's lots of communications there's lots of communications issues around that we also had problems where if we want to announce all the delegates we had problems with cow gates to get information to the delegates and information back from the delegates this was very difficult we had to have people running into talks announcing with talks, posting on lists same in IRC even then the delegates didn't get the information or didn't get the information back you need to work quite hard on making sure you have another communication channels that you can actually get the information you want out to the right people it's very difficult we try to various things like posting to announcements realistically maybe not everyone is going to have computer access at that point it's crazy as that sounds so pin copies of reception and things like that as well also it would be quite nice possibly something that could be done with PENTA to do mail-ups to a set of people meeting certain criteria because the closest we've got to that is in IRC in the games at the moment and that's something helpful and we don't have a lot of email information obviously we should be stricter with registrations to make sure we have this information or people can shout at that a lot earlier well one point that Luciano raised and that obviously works as a sponsor thing it was like a big problem this year and we don't want to be like that next year so can we speak about it the reason for the problem last year was that we didn't have the sponsored contacts at the beginning of the year because we weren't given by the people from the previous year we have but I think that's where we continue with sponsorship I hope and other people who have now made it so that's fine one lesson I learned in Mexico was that we had problems getting the hardware that we would also try to ship stuff to Mexico from HP in the US to Mexico really a problem but learned them later, it would not have been a problem to get stuff from HP Mexico so try to get local sponsors in Argentina for hardware stuff so you don't have to go through customs who's going to be in the sponsorship team for next year the they're getting money in the money in team we'll be slacks again I think more than probably I have some contacts and Holger has some contacts Stockholms actually wants to join again and help so maybe him depends on the rest of the team wants it and this is from you probably if you want yes we should help yes I hope these are not all Argentinian people probably some others have had contacts this year too like Max had some contact with Siemens and she should continue because they all only know each other but that's it more or less I have a more general question you asked for one moment before who want to stay in the team how is it possible to join the team just to some just to some the problem is I don't like to promise something and find out that I can't fit this promise I just want to do this what can be done and then I could see if I can do it join the meetings a very useful role that several people this year did people like Chris and Newton and a few others would show up they weren't available to do a lot of team pre-planning but they showed up and then gave us their whole day or their whole time here because we're at the front desk people come for the wireless noodles a lot more for the accommodation and frankly police to the night venue a lot of nights very useful so if you want to do something like that I think more people doing that is great yes it's a lot of stuff and if you want to help you in the year we have many of us that come team with one where things are positive and then we have I think first every month a meeting on ISE where we discussed how it's going on and if you show up there and just say I could work on this task or this task and then report to the mailing list and continue to do that let's try to finish a point before starting anyone back to the sponsor things also there are very different types of sponsor needs I think because of what I know that the local sponsors will be not so much well if you can get some that will be invested not so much sponsors giving money but giving facilities but yes you have to you have to start asking and a problem we had well also regarding what you said it's the same as for sponsors local people will try to work will try to help you the thing is when we started the conversation for the when in Mexico some people approach and say what do I do I told him okay get to the meetings and see what you can do but some local people are not involved so they need to be given tasks so think of that very difficult when people ask you what can I do give me a job to do many people have asked me tell me something I can do to help with that and what you really want is people with initiative will be there and have a rough area to deal with the deal with video or the deal with audio you don't want someone to say what do I do you want someone to come down and this isn't working they'll fix it they'll work out how to fix it without having to be told how what he said before about the people being available we're just dedicating the time of being available and dealing with what comes up that is very helpful people that want to just do a single task that's very difficult to schedule so if you want them to help you and you can do what Chris and I are doing that makes a big difference I would second that the best way to get involved at an early stage is to attend the meetings or read the minutes or minute the meetings so you get an idea of who's doing what and you might spot that there are areas that aren't being covered but initiative is a great help we did have quite a lot of posts on the mailing list in the months running up to the dead pump as well and we just thought well I don't know, come along, what have we missed? Compared with the volunteers who get down have the initiative to just go on fix the staff by themselves I think the volunteer coordinator role that was sort of previously probably very well in assigning that people staff because you'll always have volunteers wondering what to do If people talk half much initiative and you give them a job to do very often it doesn't get done very many times I've told people do this, do that come back, it hasn't happened because they've seen a problem and they've given up on the job rather than trying to work around helping with doing what's needed and you can get the same job to one person then to the next person then to the next person, none of them do it and then you have a problem it's difficult when the people that show initiative you build up trust with them they have initiative the more you can actually lie on and say I've told this person to do that job they do it and you're happy with trusting for that the people that don't you can't give them things that they don't do it, problems will happen so relationships are really important and if you've got new members, local volunteers you don't know, you don't have that relationship you don't have that trust and you don't know who will do things I mean there is the same issue for the planning period unfortunately what we need is not just people who have a fixed amount of time we need people that if there's a big problem they can put in more time on some of these areas we have big problems for example on accommodation jobless and a huge amount of great work but we went through we kept on just losing people on that because it was a difficult problem the whole ranging accommodation area and we get to some point and people have just stopped because there wasn't too much time and of course I'm not saying that's bad of them but what you want someone to do a job who can carry on because it's much harder than for the next