 ThinkTek Hawaii, civil engagement lives here. You know, this is ThinkTek, I'm Jay Feidell, it's the 11 o'clock block on a given Friday. You know, we have something like all together, like 60 or 70 talk shows in our lineup. And this show, Trump Week, is really, truly depressing. This is my co-host, Tim Apacheva. Hello, Dave. This is Claire, visiting us from Refinding Respect in the Chaos, which is totally appropriate. Because we're trying to find some respect, and it's very hard to find, because this chaos is mad, and it's deep, and it's scary. So I asked him before, how would you characterize this week for Trump Week, and then we can play off that. How would you characterize, Tim, how would you characterize this week for President Donald Trump? Well, remember, since he's taken office, or even before he took office, he was, you know, basically running to become President of the United States. He always had the bright, shiny object. And why does he always have the bright and shiny object is to divert attention from his real concerns or things he's trying to get through. I would classify him as a very worried president, particularly with the Mueller and the Michael Cohen recent news. I think he's very concerned. Yeah. You know what it sounds? All things considered, and we'll have a number of them to consider, is it sounds like things are catching up with him. They are. And his family. Not just him. You know, the next one that's going to be Don Jr., because he really lied, and they can have a lot of proof of it about that meeting in Trump Tower. So, you know, we're finding out about business things that he had going, even while he was running for president. And now, so he's trying to put out there that, oh, well, it's totally legal for me to do that. You know. Well, let's spring off that one. You know, the meeting and Trump Tower and the connection with the Russians. It hasn't been a good week for Trump on that. He's had two people, you know, come out, so to speak. One is, of course, Cohen, and then he's having a kind of experience with Manafort this week. Can you talk about it, Tim? Well, I think Adam Schiff, who's, you know, going to be, in January, going to be the chair of this oversight. And he has made a very firm commitment that he is going to look at these, basically these claims that Michael Cohen has made, and the fact that he's pled guilty now to lying to the FBI. And the bottom line is he is going to be looking at what Trump connection is to Russian money. That hasn't really been on the table a whole lot. But that connection, whether or not is there a business relationship that now includes laundering of money. We all know that real estate is probably one of the easiest way to launder, you know, bad money. The easiest way to do it. Are you telling me that you don't, that you believe Michael Cohen, the head of Donald Trump? Pretty much. Pretty much. You know, you said before the show that there was a running calculation of the number of lies that Trump has told us. Can you talk about that? Well, there is, and you mentioned it the last time we spoke, there is an individual who actually does this fact checking, other than the snopes, but does the fact checking and there is a running tally of how many bold-faced lies have been committed since he's taken office. And I believe it's over 6,000. And I think the last number I heard was 6,400 and change. This tends to make us believe Cohen instead of Trump. Oh, goodness. Well, it was 600 or no, 700 lies just in the month of October, just in one month. There was that many lies. Well, I think I hear you're saying the number in the frequencies seem to be increasing. It is increasing. And that's what all the news stations are saying, well, except Fox News, of course, they don't. Except Fox News. That's different, because that's kind of like... No. What about Manafort? Manafort's another, you know, high-profile person who was with him in the campaign. Manafort, you know, made a plea deal and it was found to be lying, Mulla found that it was lying, substantially lying, in moving ahead to comport with the plea deal. Now what's happening there? It sounds like intrigue upon intrigue upon intrigue. Well, Trump is just trying to make us think maybe he says, well, I haven't said anything about this, you know, that plea deal and all of that stuff and what you call it for him, but pardon for him. But he says, it's not off the table. And that's what I thought was really kind of an important telling thing. But that doesn't really... If we think about it, he can do all the federal stuff, pardon me, but he can't do anything about the state stuff. And there's plenty of state stuff already against Manafort. Manafort's going to jail, period end. So you would think he would want to cooperate in the right way. I've been sort of worried this whole time that Manafort and Cohen could be saying things that aren't true, sort of leading Mueller around and the investigators around by giving them false information. And that's something that is possible now that we hear Manafort's giving them bad information. Well, more disconcerting is the fact that they think that Manafort was actually now reporting to individuals in the administration of what sort of inquiry he's been subject to and kind of playing the hand out as a double agent. Double agent. Yeah. He's good at that. He's had plenty of experience, right? Yeah. Well, that's really... Doing that very thing. So, yeah, it's an intrigue. It's part of the reality show. But on Cohen, what I find interesting is that if you believe him, he says that Trump was in business doing a Trump tower deal in Russia and actually dealing with Russian agents, agents of the government in that deal. And that Trump knew about it. He was involved directly. Where Trump's statements in the campaign denied any deals going on in Russia. Those are diametrically opposed. I have no business in Russia. Yeah. Very specifically said, I have no business in Russia. I suppose that candidates lie from time to time. We know that. But my understanding is that this lie was such that it was an obstruction. This lie was criminal, even though he wasn't president yet, because he was making a lie of that nature while he was on campaign, and that he took the presidency on the basis of a lie. So this is getting pretty serious. Well, I think his tax returns, if the new House of Representatives has the authority to actually get his tax returns, a lot more will be known. Yeah. And who knows if Robert Mueller already has his tax returns? We don't know because his report's not out yet. We know that Robert Mueller has the answers to his questions, and there's a whole timing thing there about just exactly how many lies are in those answers. Right. Representative Swalwell was on this morning, and I was watching what he was saying. And he's also on the Intelligence Committee. And he's talking about their first order of business is to subpoena all of the records that were not allowed. The Republicans wouldn't allow them. Democrats kept wanting to do it. They're going to bring back people that they didn't get to question because the Republicans would not let them. So now that SHIP and those guys are in power and in control, that's the first thing they're going to do and get all of those documents to Mueller because they never even got there. The Republicans just sat on them and brushed them under the carpet. And I think you can expect more tweets and more statements about trying to diminish the credibility of anyone that's looking into this, be it any FBI, be it anyone in the House of Representatives. You'll see a lot more attacks on those individuals. The President changed power in the House. Again, he's worried that they are going to bring things to the table that he won't easily be able to explain. So all of that in terms of his credibility, in terms of the quickening, if you will, of these problems for him, he goes to Argentina. Don't cry for me, Argentina. I don't know. I think he's crying. Cry for the United States. Not Argentina. But there he is in Argentina with the G20 crowd, powerful Putin is there, obviously. We saw that on TV. Xi Jinping is there. And a lot of other important countries are there, countries that Trump has had bad relations with and alienated and all that. Trudeau called him out on the spot when they were on camera even. Trudeau started calling him out about the GM closures and how that's going to affect them in Canada too. Sure. I didn't know this. I learned that this morning when I was listening to him. Is that they gave them $10 billion in 2009, went to GM from Canada. I knew that we had given them a bailout from America and they had paid it back, but I had no idea that they had not borrowed. They were given $10 billion and they've never given it back. This has a lot to do with tariffs. So anyway, I think he goes down there and he cries out. That's what he said. You've got to take the tariffs off. And he's called him out. Still on. Still on. He's threatening another $260 billion. No, I know. And he called him out right on camera about it. It was great. You can see the look on Trump's face. So he goes down there amidst this flurry of issues around his credibility. A quickening of all the problems he has with the public, with the government, and so forth. And he's now, he's encircled by the G20, as you call it, the other G19. Right? He looks like a clown. He does. His credibility must be zero. I mean, to the extent that they stroke him, it's going to be clear that's not sincere. Can he bring any bacon at all home from the G20 meeting in Buenos Aires? I don't think he will. He could, but I don't think he will. Because everything that I've seen, he's strutting around, got his chest all puffed out like he's Mr, you know, popular, and nobody is talking to him. Everybody turns away from him. Well, wouldn't you? Oh, yes. If you're a world leader, and he's insulted you in the past in your country, and how you do business, and your associations with NATO and the United Nations, and the list goes on. I think what could happen is, again, some of these super deals that were made behind doors like he's done with North Korea, and all these great, great deals, because he's a great dealmaker, right? And then you find out that the new cycle passes, and nothing was ever to come of it. Just like North Korea. Just like North Korea. And so you may see an announcement of a great deal between this country and the United States. Right. I wouldn't put much credence to that. Well, they signed that deal, right? That is what they called the Northern Americas. It's Mexico and Canada. It's not NAFTA. No, it's not NAFTA. They renamed it. Oh, they renamed it. Yeah, they renamed it. And I can't remember what it is now. It's just the U.S. and Mexico, yeah. No, it's Canada. Canada is on there, too. And all three of them were lined up, and that's when Trudeau called him out about it. Yeah. Well, I guess, you know, he was going to meet with Putin that he wasn't going to meet with Putin, and then he was going to meet with Putin, and then he wasn't going to meet with Putin. And arguably that last second cancellation was because of what Putin did in the Ukraine and closing down the Kerch passageway and seizing ships and wounding Ukrainian soldiers and being a complete jerk about it. And so this is kind of a protest. But your query, whether it's that or it's the fact that he's being found in bed with Putin, and maybe he's got to keep his distance. What do you think? Well, you know, part of me goes back to when he was in Helsinki. He was believing that Russian had nothing to do with it because, you know, he interpreted the intelligence agency reports one way. And then, you know, he had to switch, and then he switched back again. And he switched. That was four times he switched whether or not Russia was involved with that, you know, back at the time today. And I'm wondering if it's the same thing or he really is concerned about the Ukrainian incident and or he needs to put some distance between he and Putin. Yeah. I don't think he cares. I don't know which one it is. I don't think he cares at all. If he's doing it just because of what happened in the Ukraine, it's only because he's being told he has to do something. He can't just let them get away with it and do nothing. So this is his big thing that he's going to do. What does that do? Nothing. Nothing. Nothing. Nothing. Nothing. Nothing. Nothing. But to the country, it looks like he stood up to you. Well, you have to remember. Remember when the Iranian incident where the Navy men were captured for a brief period of time? Oh, wait. And boy, did remember Trump basically lambasted President Obama about that was weak and you allowed this to happen and you did nothing about it. Okay. So now let's fast forward because that was January 2016. Now let's fast forward to today. And the worst is I'm just not going to meet with Putin. That's the best. That's the best he's got. Exactly. No sanctions. No nothing. Exactly. The Congress is more interested in taking action than he is. Yeah. Kind of leadership is that. Okay. And the Khashoggi thing, right? So we have the prince, what's his name, from Saudi Arabia is there. And really close, what, giving high five to Putin and all that. Oh, my gosh. The two are heroes. The two villains become heroes, right? The two murderers become heroes together and we're supposed to think that, hey, that's good friendship. What's going on? They didn't speak each other's language. They seem to have a 10 to 10 conversation. It sounds like a script out of the murder of the Orient Express or something. I think it's some kind of weird play that's taking place right in front of the cameras and you just go, what is this all about? I wonder if Trump is going to have a meeting with the prince Salman. I mean, it doesn't matter. You're right. Whether he has a meeting or not, the fact is he's giving him a pass, isn't it? And that's also an undermining of his credibility on a moral level. Oh, my gosh. And remember, that's not just his credibility on moral level. It's our shining city on the hill that's now being tarnished rapidly. Yeah. I mean, come on. I mean, look at what he is basically ignoring and even his own members of the house and center going, oh, this is a bridge too far. Right. Yeah. I heard Lindsey Graham even had come out and said, I'm not signing anything. I'm not voting for anything unless this stuff starts to go wrong. I want to see what the CIA report was about Khashoggi and I'm not voting on anything until I do. And that's it. But then Lindsey Graham, I don't believe in him anymore. I used to. But he has changed radically since Trump took office. He'll never recover from... I don't think he will. Yeah. No, he won't, from that outburst at the hearing. I don't think he will recover. But what I get though is the Republicans in Congress, the Republicans in Congress are trying to make distance between themselves and Trump. It's beginning, the thing we have so long awaited. And Trump takes that as baggage to Argentina. Yeah. Well, I hate to say this because it's going to sound macabre and not very nice, but there is a little bit of a silver lining in this cloud about the murder of Khashoggi. And that is, finally, attention is starting to be focused on the carnage and the death of all the people in Yemen. The millions of people, the children of infants of 85,000 plus, finally people are starting to say, what are we doing in Yemen? And how are we connected in this proxy war with Saudi Arabia? And how much are we contributing in our weaponry and these weapon deals to, basically, to Saudi Arabia that is bludgeoning basically a helpless country? Because it's a proxy war with Iran. I have to think that his base is not going to buy this, that after a time, if the Republicans in Congress try to separate themselves, then maybe his base will understand also. Thoughts about that? Do you think they're going to shove off at some point? I hate to say this. I think there's a high percentage of his base, his loyal base, that doesn't even know where Yemen exists. I agree with that. I totally agree. And if you think, in history-wise, we go back and we look at Nixon. When Nixon was impeached, half of his base was still completely behind him. There was a lot of people that were still really loyal to Nixon even. So I mean, we know that people do it. They just kind of turn that blind eye. You shoot somebody on Main Street, right? Isn't that what he said on 5th Avenue or whatever? Well, I'm sure there's still people that voted for Nixon back in the day that still said, what did he do wrong? He didn't do anything wrong. Yeah. I hate to say it, but this is a real comment on human nature and turning rationalizing to the point where, how can you rationalize? But it's a really sad comment on human nature and the loyalty that one puts forth blindly, obediently. Yeah. Well, I told you I was going to get depressed. Let's take one minute and kind of recover or try to recover from our depression and we'll come back and we'll hit some more of these really interesting issues that happened this week. This week, yeah. Hopefully, we'll be right back. Hey, Aloha. My name is Andrew Lening. I'm the host of Security Matters Hawaii, airing every Wednesday here on ThinkTech Hawaii, live from the studios. I'll bring you guests. I'll bring you information about the things in security that matter to keeping you safe, your co-workers safe, your family safe, to keep our community safe. We want to teach you about those things in our industry that may be a little outside of your experience. Please join me because security matters. Aloha. Aloha. My name is Mark Shklav. I am the host of ThinkTech Hawaii's Law Across the Sea. Law Across the Sea is on ThinkTech Hawaii every other Monday at 11 a.m. Please join me where my guests talk about law topics and ideas and music and Hawaii, Anna, all across the sea from Hawaii and back again. Aloha. Okay. Actually, I'm not feeling any better because we talked about GM a little earlier, but all that's connected to tariffs and tariffs are connected to Xi Jinping. And Trump is supposed to have a meeting with Xi Jinping today, tomorrow. Gee whiz. Is that meeting going to result in anything? Is Xi Jinping going to be buying wooden nickels here or what? What do you think is going to happen? Do regard for the fact that Trump softens him up by threatening another $260 billion worth of tariffs directed at China. Yeah. Well, I think we're at the 10% and there's the threat of going to the 25%. And China is hurting on their manufacturing. Our consumers are starting to think twice before they purchase with the additional 10% and possibly 25% add-on to these products. I think China is very concerned about their own economy and I think they're motivated yet remember they're very conscientious about not losing face. And Donald Trump never gives an opportunity for anyone to save face. So he creates these corners that people that are forced to deal with and who knows how that's going to go. But I do know that the farmers are suffering and all the subsidies in the world aren't going to help them because they've lost their market share. Once you've been replaced out of the market, you just can't snap your fingers and say, hey, I'm back again, you guys, buy for me. So it takes time to put in marketplaces so that your customers can rely on you and know that you can get them that product. So the marketplace has been disturbed for all these farmers. And we just got out of the business of removing subsidies for farmers. Remember how long that took? Yeah. Well, here we are right back in it again. And the question is, have they even received their money? I really don't know the answer to that. But here's the playing field for these discussions here at the G20 summit. I think that however crude Trump is, and it's a carefully selected word, Xi Jinping is much more elegant and strategic and smart. And so I don't think he's going to be giving away anything easy. And I agree with you, Tim, that China's under pressure and Trump has put him under pressure. And the American consumer in large part is still on Trump's side. His base is still on his side over this. But the bottom line is, what is Xi Jinping going to do? If I were advising Xi Jinping, I would say, you stay fast, you hold fast, don't give an inch. Because ultimately, don't you agree, Trump is going to have to give an inch, doesn't he? He usually gives a mile. Usually his great deals aren't that great. Right, that's true. But he does his all this breastfeeding thing. He makes a big stink about something. And that's a big noise. And then a little while later, he capitulates, but you don't hear about it. Don't hear about the capitulation. Yeah, you don't ever hear about that part. You know I really do believe that when you talk about his base, well, his base may be loyal, but if they're one of the 14,700 plant workers in Ohio, Michigan, parts of Canada, I don't know how loyalty that goes. And remember, for every GM job lost, there is at least four or five related industry jobs that are tied to that one job. So we're not talking 14,000. We're talking about 14,000 times four or five. And if that is his base, to what degree do they say, I don't have a paycheck anymore, but I'm still loyal? Yeah, I think the car industry in this country has been irreparably damaged. Not only the industry itself, but as you point out, the supply chain, whether it comes from this country or, for that matter, from China, subject to tariffs and all. And you can't put Humpty back together again. For Canada's GM plant, Trudeau was talking about it's a whole entire town that is built around this GM plant. So it's not just a couple of the extraneous businesses that are going to go down. It's an entire town that's going to go down. You might have another town that's related to break manufacturing, pads or the components of brakes. That whole town depends on that, but that town depends on the GM town. Right. So it's a whole national and international network that he's disturbed for no good reason with no good effect. And in fact, the effect is bad and the effect is going to be continuing. But what about his response? What about his response? What was that? Somebody else's call. We're going to stop the subsidies for GM. Well, I got bad news for you. GM never got direct subsidies. All the manufacturers got a tax credit. The individuals that got an EV, they got their 7,500, again, the reality in the world according to Trump? Not so much. Not so much. No, reality. He doesn't really have the facts. And whenever they come out, you know that they're not right. So I just automatically don't trust anything he says. Yeah. So, okay. So we've talked about, we've talked about lies. We talked about horrendous economic and political mistakes and gaffes and what have you. We talked about, gee whiz, some of the things, this has been a really rich week, hasn't it? But we need to talk about the insults, we're talking about the insults now. Because just as you have, what, 6,000 lies, you have nearly as many insults. So you insulted Chief Justice Supreme Court. What about that? Not a good strategy, sorry. No. Never insult a judge. Ever. Ever. Because they're human beings? Yeah. You don't talk back to a cop and you don't talk back to a judge. Those are the rules, right? I give credit to Roberts for talking back to him. Yeah, I assume. It's a conversation. He's not just lying down on it. And who is the other one? Oh, yeah, the Fed. Christine McStink on the Fed. I have to read this. I'm sorry, because this is a really incredible statement. He's so eloquent and articulate, our President of the United States, and I'm going to give you a small little example. To the, regards to the Fed, of course, they're increasing interest rates. I'm doing deals and I'm not being accommodated by the Fed. Wow. Then he goes, they're making a mistake because I have a gut and my gut tells me more sometimes than anybody else's brain can ever tell me. Remember back in the day, I've got a good brain? I have a brain. I have a brain. I remember that. I got a good brain. I have a brain. Really? I'm sorry. But this was his response to the Fed acting as an independent agency, trying to head off any inflation because inflation has been deemed as designated as the greatest sin for an economy is inflation. So this is his response to his lack of understanding about what the Fed's all about. We're talking about major ignorance here and proud of it. I don't know how long this can last. With the House turned, maybe there can be an impeachment, simply in the patience of incompetence, criminal incompetence, but let's talk about morality for a moment. Let's talk about the immigrants at the border. Let's talk about those babies screaming because their eyes are just full of that stuff, you know, the gas, and it's just incredible that they did this tear gas on these babies. And they lobbed them not near the wall where the people that were climbing over were, but the people that were back in, there was just supposed to be a protest that was going on. And that's the main reason why those people had gathered. And then some, just a few small group of them decided to go try to climb the wall. Now this is where I, everything that Trump says is my own theory, but everything that Trump says is exactly the opposite. Every time he points a finger at somebody else, it means he's doing it. So when he pointed a finger at the Democrats and said, they've sent these bad people into this immigration, you know, into this caravan so that they can come and attack, well, wouldn't it make sense? Okay. So if you do the progression, you know, the projection thing, he's sent people down into that group and maybe they were the ones who instigated this whole climb the wall thing and they're, you know, there to cause trouble is what he said the Democrats have done, sent these people to cause trouble. So does that mean he has sent, and so if you look at the group, you go, wow, maybe so. And then how did they get a thousand miles in a week when they said it was going to take a month? All of a sudden they had trucks to drive them here. I'd like to know where those trucks came from. I'd really love to see a reporter go down there and find out where the transportation came from because it's just pretty weird that they all just showed up. You know, there's a dichotomy here of images, okay, the one image is not too dissimilar than children being separated from their parents and incarcerated, you know, because their parents were trying to apply for asylum. That was, the optics on that was bad enough. The optics that you're describing is horrific, where children bare feet are running, you know, with intel with their mother across, you know, sewage-laden water. The optics on that is bad, but the dichotomy is there are many people in this country, not just his loyal followers, but independents and Democrats that say, we do need to prevent a rush on our borders. We have to maintain the sovereignty of our borders and we do not want to look like the laughing stock of the world that we can't even do such a simple thing. So you have this dichotomy because there's many people that think this was a good thing for him to do for the military and the administration to enforce. So how do you reconcile this dichotomy? I don't know what the answer is to that, but it is on both sides of the equation. It's taken as a serious, you know, credible thing. This immigration policy has really been immoral. It is very immoral. Even if not immoral. I saw one of those. You know, unless we forget, there's still hundreds, maybe thousands of small children, small two, three, four, five-year-old children who are separated from their parents. And we forgot about that. But the government, that is his government, has been unable to, they have no data. They can't put them together. They're unable to do it. It's their own fault. It's our fault. It's immoral, whatever. And I think people saw the folly of that. And even for many, many Republicans, they said, this is a bridge too far. This has to stop, regardless of what a judge ordered. I think people's ethics and morals kicked in and said, we can't abide by this. And that's why they're trying to rectify this as they are. But they can't. But they can't. Damage is done. And Mike is, keep it off the screen. Grant, just put it under the rug and don't talk about it. Yeah. So on that one part, I think it was too far. Again, as I said, I think there's a lot of people that say, I'm glad that you're stopping this caravan at the border because, you know, we have to do that. Well, and, granted, we do need to do that. But there is a humane way to do it, right? I heard a doctor talking about the difference for adults and for children with the tear gas. Because they're crying, they suck the gas into their lungs further. So it damages them more. Plus, because they're young, young lungs, they are more damaged by the tear gas. So these children that were gassed are going to have real issues. Well, this is real trauma for them to bury for the rest of their lives. This is trauma. I mean, it really is trauma. It is trauma. Absolutely. And they will have a psychological effect that will, you know. It's been a hell of a week, I would say. And a physical effect too. And these things rolling from one point to another, but my God, it's a lot of points. And I'd like to ask you one last question before we close. And that is, is it going to continue to roll next week? What are we going to have next week? These issues, it seems to me these issues have a kind of afterlife. Each one of them. And so what you have is the possibility that everything we've talked about will continue or worsen. And then there'll be new issues. New distractions where Trump wants to distract us from dwelling on the issues that are really so horrendous out of this week. Thoughts? Well, I know we're looking on December 7th, the next deadline for financials. You know, to get another funding in the government. So yeah, December 7th. So he's threatening another shutdown. If he doesn't get $50 billion for the wall that he wants, which is why I think he's maybe behind some of the stuff with the whole caravan, because he wants his wall. And this is the very thing that will help him get it. And so that's what another reason why I think he's behind all of this. Do you think the Republicans will give him a shutdown? Well, they know very well in advance that will not bode well for them. And so I don't think they're really too happy about trying to support that. This is bad, again, bad optics, bad image. And they remember the last time this happened. I think to answer your question on the early part was this is being run like a reality show. I don't care if you call it the apprentice. I don't know what reality show is, but it's being run like a reality show. And remember who the chief host was of his reality show. And I think he's just taking a page out of that because I'm onto the next calamity. I'm onto the next, you know, 6422nd lie. Right. All right. Well, can the country afford this? Can we recover from this? Now, last time I said I wouldn't bet on it, right? Yeah. But I really have been thinking about that because I'm really a proud American. And so I'll put my money down. All right. Welcome to the betting club of America. I believe in America. I think we can make it. I really want to believe that we can make it. We have the gears in place. We have the gears in place. Right. And thank God to our founding fathers that they were wise enough to realize that someone like this someday may come about. And the fact that the Democrats have taken the house is part of that major gear work. And I am still confident and I am still optimistic. We will get through this. From your lips to God, Jesus. Amen. Thank you, Cynthia. Thank you, Tim. Thank you, Jay. Trump Week. Trump Week. Okay. Aloha. Aloha.