 Told that everything will run on schedule although at four o'clock in the tent We're going to have the hacker foundation and donka Gardner analyst in the tent They're gonna have the hacker foundation in the tent with donka Gardner analyst I guess at four o'clock in the tent and This is Thomas and he'll be cracking safes for us Welcome, can you hear me? No, how's that a little bit better? I'm not sure if the other one will reach Let's see. We got an audio guy in here. Is this on? How about that? Better Okay, just had to get up here. All right Well, if you guys just missed a really exciting talk about how to equalize wealth in the economy Hey, you guys just missed a really exciting talk about how to equalize wealth in the economy Of course one thing they didn't cover was safe cracking. So Fortunately, we're gonna pick up here and get that little bit done Then we got a little double feature going on here first of all, we're gonna talk about a couple of techniques One is back dialing and that's gonna be our first topic This is the star of our show right here that is an analog safe lock Okay, it's not the push button digital kind. It's very important because you can't bat dial a Electronic push button lock. So what is back dialing? Well back down allows you to determine the combination of a safe and unlocked safe just by fiddling with the dial You say man, what you know, huh? What's up with that? It's already unlocked, you know Well, yeah, but if you know the combination it allows you to access it at times That weren't scheduled It also allows you to pass the possible pass along that combination to people who shouldn't know it Also, if there's like all the safes or combo the same, okay? Even if your boss comes and opens it. Okay. Well, you know the combination all of them now, don't you? But I'm sure that doesn't exist in the real world that way Well a little while back there was this guy named Richard Feynman, and he's a Nobel winning Physicist, sorry about that he was stuck out in Los Alamos developing the bomb in 1940s and Board shitless as people stuck out in the desert, you know have become He decided he would play around with the safe locks that were on the filing cabinets around there He basically discovered a technique back dialing That along with a little bit of social engineering and he pretty much had down all the combos for all the locks at Los Alamos Finally and did publish his little adventures here in a book called surely you're joking mr. Feynman. It's pretty good read Before you understand back dialing and how it works. You need to know a little bit about the inside of a safes lock This is kind of the abbreviated version, so I hope you can follow along First of all you get a dial Attached to the dial through a shaft is something called a drive cam and on the drive cam. There's a drive pin Besides all that stuff. There's also three or sometimes four wheels and a little metal device Kind of a tag team duo called a lever in the fence. Okay Just like on the drive cam each of the wheels has a drive pin. Okay, that wrote it moves along with the wheel as it turns on the opposite side of the wheel they have something called a fly and This is where the drive pin of the other wheel Connects into it So if you kind of imagine you rotate one wheel around when the drive pin of one wheel hits the fly on the other one Then both wheels start turning. Okay, they're locked together at that point Notice that the wheels also have this little wacky thing on there called a gate It's just a notch cut out of the metal Okay Once all of the gates on the wheels get lined up what you're going to find is that the fence lever falls in and Locking open. This is an unlocked safe lock if you will. Okay all the gates all the little notches are all lined up Notice how the fence has fallen into the hole there's even a gate on the cam and Notice that little tooth on the lever falls into that the Feynman method back dialing is Is like a it's a lot like a lot of back dialing in that in fact all back dialing that you have to decode the Information backwards that is you're going to find out the last number of the combination of the safe first. Okay Feynman relied on the fact that even if you turn the dial until a wheel is actually moved the lock can be turned back To its unlocked state. Okay The vast majority of combination locks Working this way. However, some changes have been made since Feynman's time and this doesn't it's not as universal as it used to be But incrementally trying numbers on the dial that is to keep turn a little bit more each time Then testing to see if the lock is still unlocked You can just you can determine what the last number was because as soon as it becomes not unlocked anymore That's the last number. Okay? Let's go ahead and do a little demonstration here on the Feynman method. Oh, hang on a second. Sorry about that Okay, we'll just go with this. Let me make this full screen. There we go Let me rotate this guy around This is a safe lock This is actually a very serious safe lock. This is actually the very same sort of lock You would find on a lot of vaults in the country This little guy by comparison Is a gun safe lock. It's basically a piece of crap. This is not you can feel the difference Yeah, I don't that's the problem. I'm sorry about that Anyone have a flashlight USB light? We'll understand here with a lighter for next hour and a half. Oh There you go. Just don't breathe very heavy. We'll be good. All right This is a safe lock. It's in the unlocked position or can be Notice we Sorry With this lock over on this side, but it's how that lever moves up and down. Okay? Now you have that big handle on the safe and you know you pull it or sometimes in the old ones You're wheeling around right and that pulls back those big metal pins on the door. Okay? Well, the only thing stopping them from moving is basically this little piece of metal right over there With the Feynman method What we're gonna do is we're gonna start turning this lock. Okay, turning the wheel of the lock and Notice I turned a little bit You see the wheels can move right see the wheels move back there. Let me see if I Can you see that back wheel move? Okay, let me get it back into the lock position again And I'll show you how you actually do the Feynman method now I must say that this is what I Proceed the Feynman method to be in his book. He very roughly described it and so it's not actually very clear Okay, but let me go ahead Move this forward here Now notice I'm actually turning the wheel this lock You can actually move If I get you a good shot of this or not, there we go. That's a little bit better I'm actually turning This wheel of this lock, but notice that that last wheel pack back there the last piece of metal Has it moved? Okay, well gee that's kind of weird. Well, yeah, it doesn't really move. Oh, see now it moved All right. Okay, what we want to do is we want to find the right positions that make that move. Okay? So I'm going to turn it back Turn a little bit too far Notice again, I'm turning the wheel which turns the cam There and I can just see shuttle that guy back and forth. Okay Okay What I'm going to do is the Feynman method he would start off and he would slowly turn The dial Which turns that cam back there and he would keep doing that in incremental steps Okay, and then he would come back and see if the safe was still unlocked And so he'd just keep bouncing it back and back and back What's going to happen is I keep turning here and I'm going to turn very slowly pretty soon You're going to see that that back wheel starts to move Oh, there it's moving, right? Okay, I can actually tell it moved right on about 40 and that's actually the number on the dial That's going to that's the last Digits of the safe. So let me swing back And notice that locks back you can actually feel that very easily when it locks You can actually hear it too probably with this safe. It's very very obvious. So We lift it up. We go over We try to drop it back. Oh, it's not going to drop back anymore. Okay, we've turned too far basically That's absolutely true. In fact, this assumes even worse than that. This assumes that the safe is actually unlocked. Okay So this is not a general purpose Sort of thing. Okay, so I can lift that guy up. I can turn Oh, okay. We got movement and so when I turn back It's not going to lock again. Now what you have to do is and now that we've got That part figured out. Okay, it's around 40 I can actually start turning back the other direction And then test and then what I'll have to do is I'll just spin back here and actually Relock the or reopen the safe again to determine the next number It doesn't take long with a lot of practice I mean you what you end up doing is you end up bouncing slightly forward slightly back and then test the lock Forward a little bit more back test the lock And by doing this you can find out the first digit very easily Okay, because all you got to do is turn until when you turn back you won't lock again Now Feynman did this in increments of five digits. Okay That's because back then the gate how wide it was that is the tolerance of the gate was a lot wider than nowadays Now you're down to probably about One on each side. So you probably you have to do increments of three so The Feynman method's okay But the problem with it is is even he used the gave up after the second number Okay, even though it was only a three-digit combination what he did after that was he brute forced the final digit Okay, especially in his day. There's five digits, right? There's only really 20 possibilities Even though you hear that a safe lock a typical three Three-wheel safe lock has a million combinations. It's a bunch of bs. All right Back in fines a day. There was gaps of five and so each wheel is only 20 possibilities, right? You multiply that times three and that's what you're going to get our factor times three So this lock here by the way is a four-wheel lock. Uh, it's actually theoretically has 100 million Combination possibilities, uh, which is a lot but in reality again, uh, it really only has About a third of that maybe two thirds of that somewhere in that range That's the Feynman method It's not the greatest system in the world because It takes a lot of time and but the good news is is you can just kind of bounce back and forth on this dial And actually determine quite a bit What you do it is you feel when the gate falls back down and you can actually feel that very easily a lot of times it did In fact, if you turn it You're going to start pulling back that bolt once it's unlocked and you can immediately feel all the super resistance in there You know when you're trying to pull back that bolt. So you can just kind of sit over here And actually determine quite a bit when you When you go out to a certain distance, you just have to make sure you know, okay. I'm stopping on 30 I'm pulling back Test it. It was still open. Okay. I'll go to 35 You know again in this lock you probably do increments of three. Okay So it works. Okay But let's take a look at a another method here. All right, that's the Feynman method. So I might have lost my presentation here So what's the movie without a car chase? This is the NASCAR method and for the NASCAR method I'm going to switch into a different lock the problem with the Feynman method besides being kind of a Pain really to dial back and forth so many times and get all the digits It really takes quite a while to get that third digit because you know, you have to Figure out the first one then you figure out the second one by bouncing through the digits And then once you have those what you have to do is you have to You have to turn to the first one and turn to the second one for every Increment you test on the third digit. Okay, because you basically have to unlock the safe again You're just kind of doing incrementally in reverse What we're going to talk about now Is what I call the NASCAR method and the NASCAR method is basically Named that because it's just one big long left-hand turn Now hope that doesn't offend anybody Any NASCAR fan out there? You know if it does I'm kind of concentrating on more important things that are probably You know like whether you're still is still working and you know, maybe dental hygiene You know some stuff like that Anyway, um and NASCAR is a great sport by the way. I love it anyway The NASCAR commitment method this is just a one long left-hand turn. Okay There's not all this back and forth dialing whatever it's a lot of ways It's a lot more stealthy because you can just literally put your hand on the dial pull it across But in a way, it's a lot harder the Feynman method was kind of like hitting you over the head with a brick As far as the feedback the lot gave you okay You would pull it back if the lock was went to the unlocked state If you pulled if you turned any farther it would try to pull the bolt back and I mean you just like you know It's like hitting a Mack truck Okay with your hand, so you know you had to put a lot of effort actually get that bolt pulled back With this method you had to have a really fine sense of touch and it takes a while to develop that That's the bad news The good news is Is that uh, you can a lot of times to easily determine The first and second wheel With just a few revolutions Uh first and second digits rather which is a few just one revolution or a couple revolutions actually of the wheel of the dial This whole method is possible because when the drive pin Of a wheel hits another wheel it adds the weight of that wheel To the whole mechanism that you're turning okay, so basically all you're trying to do is feel For the extra weight that occurs Now there's one little uh one little problem with all this good stuff and that is We get this guy positioned so you can see it Yeah, it's one. Maybe a little bit a little bit hard to get there. There we go. Now we've got a good angle It's focused pretty good on that Okay This lock is actually It's in the unlocked state What i'm going to do is i'm going to go ahead and lock it See i'm going to Notice that my fence lifts up Now with this lock Uh and with a lot of locks if I try to go back to the unlocked state Let's say I wiggle the dial even though I don't move any of the wheel packs Okay, if I try to go to the unlocked state again It's not going to happen Okay, because they built a little mechanism in because people like Feynman and they said, uh, you know We want to wait people back dialing these things, but you can still back dial this lock This lock by the way is a very nice lock. It used to be state-of-the-art Uh Notice that the wheel packs on this one are made out of plastic They actually have a fancy name for that, but basically it's a plastic design for its x-ray resistance This lock is what they call a group one lock group one r It has a manipulation resistance For instance to actually get it to Shouldn't watch the screen because everything's backwards With this lock What you do is you actually have to turn it over to zero And push in To try Now the click that this happened was trying to force down the lever In a lot of safe locks the lever is actually resting On the the wheel packs And that allows you to manipulate them in this lock the lever is actually above the wheel pack Only when you go to zero and press in doesn't try to pop down and try to actually enter the actual Gates and so this uh Pretty much prevents manipulation from happening not totally but almost So this locks a pretty good lock The way you actually do the dance car method with this is you just very simply start turning And as you do in this case, actually, I've already turned it here. So let me kind of back up There we go With this lock you're going to feel a couple of things when you first start turning first of all And only if you see that little cam I'm wiggling down there this little metal roller vaguely somewhere in this vicinity That actually lifts the lever out You can you can feel that as you turn this knob, okay So you have to be careful not to get fooled what you want to do is when you feel that lever lift out You want to kind of look down at the dial and see where that area is at That's basically called the forbidden zone and the last digit of the combination of safe can never be in the forbidden zone Uh Because otherwise it won't work properly because that's actually just part where basically the mechanics have to Lift the lever around and do some stuff and so you can also have that to be the spot where it falls in at the last So i'm going to do is this is going to start turning this and again one long left hand turn and as soon as it Hits and you can actually feel it I can get extra resistance. Usually the very first wheel is very easy to detect I just turn it until I feel the first wheel Okay, and you just note the number that i'm going to keep on turning And what it's going to happen here is i'm going to drag that wheel around until it touches the next wheel and the Resistance increases uh sitting on 50 right now. So I can tell you right now the second wheel Is on 50 and let's see if we can get the third one here Right there. Uh, oh 50 again. It's probably set to all 50s because i'm lazy bastard anyway No, actually, I'm sorry. That was a That was the gap there. I shouldn't have done that. Anyway The third wheel is particularly hard to detect Uh, normally you'll only end up with with the first couple of digits It also really depends on how well the lock is maintained if some guys just come out and oil the sucker Man, you're going to be in a world of hurt because it's going to turn really smoothly And that causes a lot of problems Um also with a lock. Let me switch back Like this guy Oh Man, let's wrap everything's backwards. Notice this guy the wheel is like way over here And like all the log goodies are way over there. So like what's up with that, you know What's up with that is uh one of the favorite uh safe cracking techniques is to actually Knock off this dial usually with you know, just like a big hammer The uh, you know the big fucking hammer technique and then You take a punch and you punch out, you know, the uh, the little the little drive Shaft in there basically now if that drive shaft was sitting over here in this lock mechanism I'm sorry. You can't see me where I'm tapping and I can't see where uh If the drive shaft was sitting over here You might actually punch those wheels and just blow the hell out of the whole insides So that may allow you to open the same for instance. That was actually a very popular technique So they got a little bit smart and they said hey, let's put the wheel over here. Okay Actually In this lock They say well gee, you know, that's the like uh, you said it's like a government high security lock You know, why would the feds be using something so crappy as this? Well, actually they got a little bit smarter what they found out was this. Okay. Well, we'll let you knock the Dial off. We'll let you punch it. What's going to happen is is this is a special kind of breakaway back And part of it is designed to actually crack and fly off But when that happens, there's like a little internal locking mechanism that Goes into effect. It's called a relocker And that relocker will prevent the bolt from actually opening And in fact, you're like really royally screwed if you go into a situation Where you're trying to open up somebody's safe and it's been punched and the relocker is fired In fact, you ask any safe technician their big fear is that the relocker is fired. Okay Because a lock you can work on you can drill a hole you can get in there with the boroscope You can see the wheel pack you can open it up. It assumes you got to work in lock, doesn't it? Okay, not if the relocker is a fire It's not if the locks all shot the hell from being punched. So uh They actually do have a protection against that but you know banks, you know wearing the old belts and suspenders They like to have their dials offset. It makes it even safer Let me stop down and take uh take some questions or I know this is kind of Hard to visualize but yes No, the safe has to be unlocked Has to be unlocked as well. You know again, it's kind of a limited technique, but It's basically a privileged escalation attack. It allows you to get access Uh whenever you're not supposed to have access also A very common method is something called day locking. I don't know if everyone's ever heard of that but uh Since the you know the manager of the uh, you know best buy figures that nobody knows what the hell Is going on in the safe what they do is they unlock the safe But just like Feynman found out you they figure out. Hey, you can turn the dial back a little bit And the safe appears to be locked at that point, but it's not really okay All you got to do is just turn it back to the the last digit and it'll reopen Okay, that's how Feynman determines the last digit. You know, he just turns it until it won't open anymore Okay, so in other words, let's say the last digit was 30 what you would do to day lock it It was you would turn just a little bit past 30 like 35 Okay now to open the safe back up all you got to do is all the last digit back again You just wheel it around and pass zero to 30 and it'll pull the wheel back up and a it's unlocked It's just quick, right? So it saves you some time But if you know it's day locked Well, it's unlocked. All right, and if it's unlocked you can determine the combination So it's not a huge super huge exploit, but occasionally it can be very powerful Oh, yeah, I'm sorry. I don't understand the question That's true. As far as I know, there's hasn't been a whole lot of defense Well, they haven't done a defense against the back dialing. There's been a lot of defense against the Feynman method Let me uh Well, when you first start turning what you're gonna what you're gonna be dragging is only the cam That's directly attached to the dial and eventually He's going to come around and the drive pin on there is going to hit the fly on the first wheel Then you're going to pick up the first wheel. You should be able to detect the change in drag I'm sorry Okay, I'm sorry. I can't I can't get it is um the Infimans to protect against fimes method what they did by the way was uh over Let's go back to video here This little guy right here is the actual metal shaft that's the actual metal Bolt that sticks out to actually lock the safe and you can't see it But behind here they actually put a small ball bearing and a spring and there's a little dimple in the back of this guy So what happens is is when you unlock most modern safes? um, I'm sorry when you read the When you relock them, what happens is that that the dimple pulls the this shaft and The locking there the lever arm here back It kind of pops it back a little bit and that prevents it from falling right back into the gates if you realign the gates again Okay, so that was prevents the Feynman method from occurring As far as I know in a mechanical safe lock, there's really no defense right now against like a nascar sort of attack The trick is again, it depends on how well it's been maintained If you get an older lock that really hasn't seen locksmith or probably a safe technician a long time You're probably going to be in good shape on that because you're going to be quite a bit of drag Especially on the first and second digits pulling out that third one's hard You got to remember that a lot of times you got four inches of steel between you and that wheel pack Okay, it makes it makes it hard practice helps a ton on this guy uh, yeah but we're going to switch from from this guy the The manual Method to Oh hang on sorry Two electronic saves here in just a second Okay, let me just give a quick overview though on some of the good and bad things about this Bag dialing is quick and easy with a little bit of practice. All right. It's really not that hard Bag dialing can be the size of this like fiddling with the lock So you can just like walk up to it and do a nascar turn on a safe All you got to do is glance down whenever you feel extra drag and see if that's either the forbidden zone kicking in there Or an actual wheel picking up Bag dialing works on most mechanical safe locks including 2 m 1 1 r Especially the nascar method The Feynman method will pretty much only work in older safe locks The information gain can be used for manipulation if you already know A couple of the digits or one of them even that helps a lot of manipulation It also obviously just helps a lot of brute forcing it Bag dialing only works the safe open obviously. That's a huge bummer and you're saying oh man, you know But it actually can be powerful because actually knowing this the combination is a lot different for merely just having access to it during the day Feynman just had access to it during the day. He wasn't even supposed to open up all of these uh atomic bomb uh secret You know Filing cabinets that they had around there instead. He just walked up and he just played with the lock while he was talking with somebody No one ever noticed. No one actually found out the Feynman method. They thought he was some mechanical guru Sometimes also, especially with the nascar method, uh, you'll end up with the safe being locked because you won't be able to determine the third wheel In reality, that's usually not such a big deal because safes get accidentally locked all the time Uh, you know, people bump them and stuff like that So most of the time it's not really considered a security threat that the safe. Oh gee it was unlocked and now it's locked Well, you know, you know who who fucked with the safe, you know, that's about it. That's all that's this only security threat raised The Feynman method usually takes too long It's a lot of jiggling back and forth to try and bounce around and find all the numbers And you really only get one time with an open safe. Obviously if you screw up on either method You're gonna end up with a lock safe and you can't do bag dialing How do you protect your safes from back dialing? First of all, don't leave the safe unlocked. Okay, or day locked, which is just as bad Some electromechanical locks can also automatically relock themselves after a short period of time. That's cool Mechanical locks can also be supplemented with things like alarms Use of time locks. That is, you can only open the safe during, you know, business hours Well, that pretty much screws the whole point of, you know, trying to figure out how to open it up later on Additional security measures such as video surveillance, guards, perimeter alarms, all that good general security stuff is great ideas to help protect your safe Ah, let's talk a little bit about my friend Spike the Wondersafe If you ever wonder why I called it that, it's because I kind of wondered why spikes is even called a safe Now Spike's full name is the Century A5835 Fire Safe This is one model out of a dozen that are all very similar They're very popular. Obviously, you go around and you see tons of Century safes Century doesn't really claim that this is provides significant burglar resistance But people just generally assume that it does kind of like when they wander down and you buy that hardened shackled master padlock and think it's really a significant barrier to entry However, you know, like I say, Spike is terribly misunderstood. He's great in a fire Uh, I've actually had uh read accounts of many locksmiths. They said and they they pulled a century out of a fire You know, they opened it up. All the contents was great. I mean, they really are good in a fire However, keep burglars out or just whoever they're pretty sucky That spike doesn't look totally wimpy. He has something kind of like two-factor authentication First of all, he's got a tubular lock and also electronic keypad is five-digit Combination. Well, that's pretty pretty stout. You know god. I can guess five digits You know, but unfortunately it looks kind of be deceiving Spice security problems all began back in 2000 when this guy named freddy, you know That is freddy the wire started spilling safe cracking secrets on the alt locksmith news group I don't know if you ever guys ever frequent alt locksmith is pretty much useless That's because a lot of locksmith hang around it and they like to basically dump on anything Uh, that's uh any information that really comes through there. They spread a lot of misinformation There's really not a hotbed of good information. You want hotbed of good information go to lock picking 101 or groups like that One of the secrets that freddy tipped uh was something called spiking spiking involves uh passing electric current In inside of the safe to actually open it A electronic safe basically when you type the numbers on the keypad all it does is uh compare that with a little digital chip And science and yeah, that's the right number and it pops the electric Current inside the safe which activates a selenoid if selenoid is basically just an electromagnet And it pulls back the bolt which allows you to turn the handle which allows you to open the safe In 2002, uh, there was a news group actually a website Had a guy on there they were having a discussion about whether you should buy like electronic locks for your gun saves or whatever Because they're a lot more convenient. You know, you know, they're a lot quicker You know dial in a regular conventional mechanical safe lock. It's kind of a pain in the ass sometimes especially if you're in a hurry And uh, the one guy on there said, oh, you know, he works as the Uh chaplain in a penitentiary and the prisoners there said, oh man, you know, don't do that You can open up those things with nine volt battery Well, you know what they were right So, uh, obviously they've they've done for quite a while the people who shouldn't So it's probably a good idea for everyone else to kind of learn what to avoid in an electronic safe locks Uh, you know, again, the spike has this two factor authentication now, right? So, uh, you know, even if you found out the five digit code, uh, you still have the work on the tubular key You know, again, unfortunately for spike, he's kind of having this run of bad luck Uh, remember the kryptonite bicycle lock in the big pen? You know, they had that texas grudge match and the big pen won Yeah Unfortunately spikes pretty much got the same thing going on. There's our instruments of destruction. That is a flex mate grip pen A flex grip elite actually Oh, and that's our little century safe spike Here's the most complicated part of this process Removing the ends of the cap of the pen This took the longest actually of the whole thing Oh, there we go Notice you, uh, this is a very difficult technique. It involves inserting the pen Into the tubular lock. You have to press kind of hard Yeah, that's okay. Oh, there we go I was going to do this demo live, but lugging around 30 pounds where the safe locks was enough And I figured the 100 pound safe could sit in the office, you know I'm going to take the uh, take it out. Just to prove that that wasn't a flu Although I am cheating here because actually this pen has basically been impression. It's basically a key at this point So, you know, it's it's even easier the second time around Yeah, notice I I locked it back again, too This, you know works both ways because you don't really want people to know that you've been playing around with their century safe Okay, now we've got to tackle the other part of our two factor of the notification Well, first thing we do we've got to get rid of that keypad Fortunately, it's made out of good industrial grade plastic Get rid of all those bits we don't really need And I'm going to get to flip this around and I do a slightly different camera shot here to kind of show you A little bit better what's going on It's hard to see but notice there's two plugs there one's got a black and white wire on the bottom and the other one's got a black I'm sorry black and red wire on the bottom and the top one's got a black and white wire If you look at the battery pack, it's got red and black coming out of it And if you look very carefully, you'll notice that the black and white wire runs inside the safe Oh gee, I wonder what that's for that's a nine volt battery. I put tape around the end to keep the wire separated for me very conveniently and It took my dog ginger three weeks to learn that trick though. So it's not that easy. It's really not Actually, this is this is the other hard part is getting that goddamn plastic Thing back on But you know, you don't you don't want to leave a messy safe, you know, that's what I always say, you know Oh, look, so we're all locked back up again. Two people are locks in and pop that thing out And that's it You know, obviously I went in a big hurry there that whole video is three minutes long The actual opening of the safe part is like two minutes long Obviously, if I was rushing it, you probably do it in about a minute and that's to open and close it So that's about it for spike the sentry wonder safe here Here's some tips folks Never assume a fire resistance safe has any burglar resistance Okay, unless it's actually rated for and there are safes that are both burglar and fire resistant Specifically asked when you buy an electronic safe if it's spike resistant Uh, if you're buying somebody who doesn't know what that means, you probably need to go someplace else if uh, if the uh, you know, the Locksmith guys jaws drop open and you know, you realize you actually know what you're talking about Uh, then he may actually sell you a decent safe um A lot of these safes Nowadays are really crappy and you got to be really careful, especially on the cheap gun safes I showed you that gun safe lock earlier and told you it was piece of crap. It is it's mechanical The electric uh, electronic ones are also generally pretty crappy That there is a danger by the way of opening the safe via spiking. Okay. I used a nine volt battery quite frankly, the battery pack in that machine is I think only produces six volts and Uh, you can actually damage the electronics on This circuit board by spiking sometimes are actually made to damage the circuit board by spiking That's their spike resistance. If you will it also allows them to sell another safe So that's a really great idea. I guess anyway Very important limit your access to fire resistant safes. Okay They're generally just not that great as far as actually protecting your valuables Also, too, if you come up against a conventional safe cracker, he's going to break out something called a drill And he's going to drill through this white fluffy cotton stuff that they have inside fireproof safes And let me tell you it doesn't slow you down nearly as much as hard plate So, uh, it's just generally a good idea to keep an eye on your fireproof safes alarms video guards surveillance If you don't get anything else out of this whole conference You should realize that good security always relies on overlapping layers of security Never depend on a single firewall or that single safe to be safe. Okay Make sure you wrap it around with other id s's and security guards alarm systems and things like that It's the only way you could stay safe Questions Yes Yeah, you can although, you know, a lot of times they're getting a little bit sharper here And if you know, you don't get to flow laterally right or sometimes, uh You could probably even check and say have some sort of like pre-circuitry And say, okay. Well, haven't typed in the digits. So I'm basically in if any electricity comes down this pike I'm blowing myself up mode So, you know, it's there are spike resistance safes. It's not impossible. It's just when you deal at a cheaper level You don't normally get it. Yeah Uh For fire resistance, I love sentry actually, uh, but you know, they're just they're just not, uh Burglar resistant and unfortunately to pay to get both is pretty expensive Yeah eBay everything I got here is on ebay except the, uh Moss hamilton x8 Which is uh, the world's most secure lock except for the x9 which came out and yeah, anyway, but the uh No, it's uh, you'll only find this lock on High. Yeah, let me switch back here. Sorry. It takes a long I suppose they had this all set up to automatically switch and of course that fails spectacularly now this Is probably going to take a while here. I'm sorry And I'm running out of time Oh, there we go Okay, this is a moz hamilton It looks like a mechanical safe lock. It is not it is actually very much like one of those radios you, uh Survival radios you get it's got the crank on the side where you have to like crank it up Basically with the moz hamilton you have to turn it until you power it up. It's actually fully electronic with the moz hamilton All of the electronics are inside the safe. They're behind that four inches of hard plate. Okay, so you can spike this devil It's actually been done, uh, but it's not easy and you have to knock the dial off to get in and The government specifications for this was a needs to be secured. That's great. That's wonderful But they wanted to make sure that no one could get in in a stealthy way Okay, you know a lot of the stuff we talked about with back dialing and stuff and spiking They're very stealthy. You don't know that something's happened So if you knock the dial off this sucker, sure you can get into it. I mean, you know, you can You know take explosives to the safe and get into it But people will know you've been there. Okay, and that's all they're worried about it's going to take time It's going to take uh and leave a big trail So This is one of the most secure locks in the world. They do have the new nine model That's the only reason why I own this one is because of course they closed this out and I got it you know reasonably cheap It is a great lock and uh boy, this would definitely you know work great on your front door Anything else? Oh, I'm afraid I gotta head on out here If anyone else has any questions, I'll be out that way And you can look at some of this stuff