 Okay, three, two, rolling. Minister, thank you very much for taking the time to speak to us. Now, a very exciting weekend is upon us. We have the presidential election set to take place on Saturday. There has been a lot of talk about fake news, disinformation on both sides, the DPP and the KMT, lots of allegations and concerns about how it's affecting the polls that will take place on Saturday. How big is the problem of disinformation this time? Ultimately, the persons who sow disinformation is not about the DPP or KMT. Rather, the people who sow disinformation try to discourage people from participating in the democratic process, or even just refuse to participate in the democratic discourse. That is the real danger of disinformation. It is to decimate trust in each other when it comes to democratic debate. This time, I think, because the election is just electing people, whereas before, we have an election in a mayor election where people are also casting their referendum. So there's less subjects to sow discord from. So this time, I think disinformation is more manageable. It's also because the crowd-sourced fact-checking communities, for example, during the presidential debate, there's thousands of crowd-sourced people volunteers from across the internet just typing the transcript and checking the sources and so on, working with the institutional media in real time to fact-check the three presidential candidates as they're delivering their policy platforms and debates. Any sense of where this disinformation or fake news is coming from? So disinformation, when attributed, usually comes from two sources. One is from end-to-end encrypted channels in Taiwan, the line system, just like WhatsApp, is very popular. So it is like a perfect place to do A-B testing, like remixing the messages in various different ways, try out different groups of people to see which ones share them, and it's all in the dark because it's end-to-end encrypted. And when the disinformation people start to see something that goes viral or gets recast very quickly, remix very quickly, then they maybe pay some advertisement dollars and so on to bring it out on the public social media, such as Facebook and things like that. And so this is like the two strata of disinformation, first to test it in end-to-end encrypted channels and then to amplify it in the public channels. Some finger-pointing at China, but the source of some of this fake news are, what kind of headlines are they commanding? What kind of fake news is coming out? If you look at the Taiwan Fact Check Center, which is the social sector foundation, part of the international fact-checking network, there are indeed some overt, not covert, overt messages. For example, there was one about the Hong Kong anti-elab protesters allegedly, quote, unquote, paying young people to murder the police, unquote. And that is a popular disinformation that, and they traced it into Zhong Yang Zhen Fa Wei, which is the main unit of law and politics in the PRC. And so that's their way of calling Chang An Jian. And that is where the original source came from when it comes to those Hong Kong protesters. So what can be done with this fake news or disinformation? How do we put a stop to it? Countries like Singapore and Vietnam have passed laws to combat this problem. What is Taiwan doing? The main idea in Taiwan is that a minister's words should never be a higher form than a journalist's words. That is to say, in Taiwan, we hold ourselves to the standard that we must not decimate freedom of expression, freedom to assemble freedom of speech, freedom of the media when we counter disinformation. And that necessarily means that the power need to be in the social sector, in the institutional media themselves, rather than in the administration. So that means the Taiwan Fact Check Center, for example, works with institutional media and so on, and the government is only providing clarifications in real time to the fact checkers and also mimetic engineering products that are fun so that people can more virally share our clarifications, but we don't call ourselves fact checkers. We're just contributing to the fact checking process. And it is the Taiwan Fact Check Center and other fact checkers that integrate them into the social media platforms such as Facebook so that when fact checked something as false from the TFC site, the Facebook algorithm will then bury the story. So it's not a takedown, but it would then take hours for you to find that in the newsfeed. Is there any, is there a need for legislation? There is the anti-infiltration law that is working its way through the legislative UN. It is not specifically about this information, though. Do you think there is need for a law for this? In existing law, there is already clauses about intentional, harmful, untruth, which is the three components that together forms this information. So we have a very strict definition outside of which, like parody, satire, or whatever, that's not this information. And so what we're looking at is existing acts that already say that this information is not to be encouraged, for example, doing an epidemic for the agriculture products and things like that, and upgrade the text, which usually already said something about radio or newspapers, but less so about digital media, to upgrade them to also cover digital media without making new acts. We're on the eve of the presidential election. What is the feel like on the ground here in Taiwan as we lead up to the polls tomorrow? Well, it's reasonably sunny. The weather is good. The chance of raining is low. What I mean by that is what is the feeling amongst the people here in Taiwan? Are they wanting change? What is the likelihood that President Tsai Ing-wen will win a second term? I have no idea. And I must say that I'm independent, I'm not partisan. So I'm not taking any party's view. For me, what is important is that on the measures of cybersecurity, on the measures of physical security of the ballots, on the safety of the broadcasting of the Italian process and so on, that the society can together participate peacefully in the democratic process and deepen our democracy by participating fully in it. Now, your portfolio as a digital minister, what kind of things do you work on? What is Taiwan's digital policy looking at? So my work is digital minister in charge of open government, which is making the government transparent to the people, not people transparent to the state. And also social innovation, which is when people come up with new ways. For example, the COVAX project, which is a line bot that you can forward, suspected this information to, and it clarifies it and sends back to you. And that is something that civil society does. But what we're doing is to amplify their message and find their collaborations. For example, with the line system, the line corporation to build a dashboard around this. And then finally, it's also about youth engagement because in Taiwan, each of the 12 social innovation related ministries have around two reverse mentors who are all below 35 years old and lead the direction of that ministry. So for example, the reverse mentor of the Minister of Labor attended the World Skills Competition, which is like Olympics for first skilled people and Taiwan won the third place this time. So he proposes to the Minister of Labor that we in our national day parade, which is October 10, invite not only athletes, but also the skilled champions into the national day parade and introduce them into the new curriculum, which makes it possible for them to work with the school children to remodel their schools and redesign their schools. And because our reverse mentor have the council premiered by our prime minister, so this idea very quickly become policy just a couple of months after proposing it. Now in terms of your digital policy, do you involve the youth or the next generation in terms of education to ensure that, let me ask that question again. How does your policy touch upon the next generation, the youth in educating them about the digital economy? No, the youth should educate us about the future of the digital economy and digital society. As I said, the reverse mentorship idea is that the youth know which new directions to go and it's us, the older generation, that help the youth to realize their potentials and realize their roles. This is reflected in the new curriculum which rolled out in 2019. That starting from the primary grade, we no longer talk only about media literacy, which is like the young people being their viewers and readers of news, but rather media competence because everybody has brought in as human rights. Anywhere in Taiwan, even on the top of Yuzhan Mountain, 4,000 meters high, you always have 10 megabits per second at 15 euros per month. A limited fortune connection, if you don't it's my fault. Because of that, then everybody become a broadcaster by themselves. It's not just enough for them to understand how the media works. It is literally indispensable for them to understand how to become a media by themselves. And so basically, anyone in the primary school can participate in the fact check in a journalistic community and that is how we redesign our curriculum to focus not on the standardized answers or the standardized tests, but rather on a problem-based learning where the students identify the problem they would like to solve and form a cohort of people interested in that problem and solve it. Now, President Tsai Ing-wen is running for her second term of office. Four years ago, compared to now, how has the digital age made this election different? The rise of social media, how is it different this time? I think this time what we're trying to say to the people is that the democratic process is more and more built around narratives offered by everyday people. There's a lot more YouTubers and live streamers and there's a lot more focused on mimetic engineering, which is how to package a message and make it go viral. There's a lot more YouTubers that now even form their own party called the unstoppable happy party. And this kind of party basically uses fun as an incentive for people to understand more about any political context, a policy context. So instead of just voting for particular people, the people who focus on mimetic engineering and fun make sure that people can spend the time required an hour or more to understand more thoroughly a policy context. I think that represent a very important lesson in the democracy is that democracy is just not about the voting day only, but about the days between the two voting for people to more deeply understand what the politics are and what the policy context is. Minister, thank you very much for your time today. Thank you. Thank you. Can we just do a river? Yes.