 Hi. How's that? Is that okay? Awesome. All right. You are in the Centering DEI in your open source event talk. I am Elizabeth. Thank you for being here. I appreciate you. Katie mostly you. But yeah, it's a little bit of a distracting day today. So we're going to do our best and plow through this. So before I start, I just want to give a quick introduction about myself. I am Elizabeth Barron. I'm the Chaos Community Manager. And I'll talk about chaos in just a minute. But I'm also a freelance writer. I am a nature photographer. So I will have some of my nature photos in this talk, which is the first time I've done that. So hopefully it all makes sense. I tried to make the connection work. This little bird here is an eastern cardinal. And that is the state bird of Ohio, which is where I am from. So I'm from Cincinnati. And that's our state bird, the cardinal. Part of my job in open source, I've been in open source for 20 plus years. Part of my job as community manager has been to plan events and organize events. I've done over 100 events, small and big, mostly smaller events that are community driven, have smaller budgets. So I am going to talk about that in a bit. But, you know, I've also been a speaker. I've been, I've done keynotes. I've been on the speaker selection committee. I've been on the sponsorships side as well, giving sponsorships from a company, and also receiving them at the conference. So I've seen kind of how all of the pieces fit together when you're planning an event. And that's why I'm here today. I also want to just make sure that we all are on a shared understanding of what DEI means. Diversity, equity, and inclusion, that's what DEI stands for. Diversity, when I'm talking about diversity, I'm talking about acknowledging the ways that we are different and the characteristics that make us unique. So things like race, age, gender identity, whatever that happens to be, that's what we're talking about when we mean diversity. And when we're talking about equity, equity is different than equality. So equality is where you give everyone the same thing regardless. Like everybody has access, the same access regardless of who you are. What equity does is it acknowledges that there are certain systemic social structures that prevent people from having that same sort of access. So equity aims to redistribute resources to balance that out a little bit better. So that's what we mean by equity. And then when we're talking about inclusion, we're talking about making people feel welcome and that they should be there, that they're valued and respected. And so when you put diversity, equity, and inclusion together, that's where you get this sense of belonging and that someone feels safe and good and they're having a great experience and that they belong there. They're right where they should be. I think that obviously diversity, equity, and inclusion is important in open source projects in general. But it's even more so at events. It's critical at events. And I will tell you why there's three reasons for that, I think. The first one is that when you're at an open source event, you're extremely vulnerable, especially for our marginalized population. Like anybody who has been to an event, your first time there, it's just such a stressful thing. You've come from planes and trains and cars and however else you got there, super stressful. Some people are paying for this themselves, so financially it's stressful. And it's just you're at a place where you're in a room with a hundred other strangers, or in this case, two or whatever. You have to just trust that you're going to be safe and you're going to be okay. And it's a difficult thing and it can make you very vulnerable. So centering diversity, equity, and inclusion at events is absolutely critical. Also, not to be overly dramatic, but I think open source events can honestly make or break someone's career. And I say that and I will stand by that because I think if someone comes to an open source event and they meet a bunch of people and they have expanded their personal network and they have a great time, they've learned about job opportunities that they may not have learned about otherwise, they have learned skills or learned about new technologies that they may not have known about. That's really a boost for their career. And conversely, if they come to an event and they have a traumatic, horrible, awful time, they probably are not going to be going back to any tech events anytime soon. They may leave open source altogether, they may leave tech altogether and switch careers based on how their experience went. So as event organizers, you are responsible for their well-being and responsible for their safety at the event. I will also say at events, I think that as event organizers, if we don't take responsibility for people's safety, then nobody else will. And I will talk about that because I think this is incredibly important. I also say that if we center diversity, equity, and inclusion in events, it's better for everybody, not just our marginalized folks, but it's better for everyone. It's a better experience overall for everyone at the event. For those who just came in, I'm a nature photographer. That's why I have nature photos in here just to give you a little bit more context about why there's a bird on here. This is the state bird of Ohio. This is a cardinal and that's where I'm from. So that's where you get this. Can you all read that up there? It's kind of small. So I have fun facts too and you're welcome for these. I wanted to give this talk because as I said, I work for a group called Chaos. And Chaos stands for Community Health Analytics Open Source Software. What we do is we are an open source project under the Linux Foundation. And we try to figure out how open source maintainers can track and measure the health of their open source communities. And so we have a few different working groups that look at that from different lenses. So we have, for instance, a risk working group that looks at ways you can track and measure your community's health with a risk lens. I think Sean Goggins is giving a talk on that right now, as a matter of fact. So you can go over there if you want. We also have one that looks at evolution. So is the project growing? Is it thriving? Or is it stagnant? And some of these things can be measured with an API, right? Like just trace data. You can get these numbers. Easy peasy. We also have a diversity, equity, and inclusion working group that looks at things that are a little less easy to measure and track. So things like maintainer burnout. You know, like, how do you measure that? That's a really hard thing to define and to measure and keep track of. So part of our metrics that we have in the diversity, equity, and inclusion working group are based on events. And we have a DEI badging program where we have event organizers will submit an application and answer a bunch of questions for us. We have a few reviewers that look at their application and the ways that they are centering and attending to diversity, equity, and inclusion. And then we will issue a badge based on that process. And it's all done transparently openly on GitHub. And so I think that it's extremely important. And as I said, I'm the community manager for chaos. And I'm also pretty involved in that project. So it's very interesting to me to see how different events are doing these. As I mentioned, you know, I think the most important thing that an event organizer needs to keep track of and worry about and focus on and center is safety. Because as I said before, being at an event makes you immediately vulnerable no matter who you are, but especially for our marginalized folks. And so, you know, creating that safe space is your number one top priority. There was an excellent talk yesterday by Eva Black about codes of conduct. And if you have not seen that a plus plus plus, please go watch that recording when it is available. I am a huge proponent of training, especially for codes of conduct, because you can't expect your event organizing team to just automatically know what to do in the case of a violation, like they just you have to give them the tools they need to handle that appropriately. So yes, 100% training. And one thing that Eva mentioned was that this this idea that someone may violate the code of conduct inadvertently because they were not a native English speaker, and they may be misunderstood or misunderstood the nuance of a code of conduct, which was a really great point. And Kubernetes has their code of conduct translated in a variety of languages, which I thought was it. And so I put that in there. Thank you, Eva. I put this in here as something that to consider, because that is a no cost thing or a low cost thing. You might have to pay for someone to professionally translate in in languages if you don't have any community community members that can do that for you, but absolutely can can make a difference. So please consider that. And then, of course, if you're, you know, on the event organizing team, you must be ready and and understand what to do in the case of an emergency. If you do not have to know CPR, but you absolutely should know what to do in that case or where to go and make sure your attendees know that as well. Also, I'm a big proponent of putting in your whole heart when you are doing something. So even if you're organizing a small event, it doesn't mean that you have to not think about these things. A lot of the ideas I'm going to give are little to no cost. And they just take a little bit extra effort, a little bit extra love from the ones who are organizing. And if there are higher cost ideas, you can offer them as sponsorship opportunities. So when I was doing sponsorships, we loved our company loved it when somebody would tie it straight to something that would would help center diversity, equity and inclusion, such as live transcripts, live transcription, you know, tie that to a sponsorship opportunity, let someone pay for that and put their name on it. And then it just helps everyone, right, the company can feel good about supporting the event attendees get to take advantage of that service. And then of course the event organizers can offer that service to whoever needs it. And I also want to just say you don't have to solve all the things at once, especially if you're a small team or if it's a small event, just do what you can, just do what you can and then do one more thing next year. So just make it a little bit better every every time you do it and you'll be doing good. Okay, let's talk about centering diversity. So I found that a lot of open source event organizers will promote their event and their CFPs in their circles. So they'll put it on Twitter, they'll put it on LinkedIn, whatever they happen to have as their social media, which is fine, totally fine. But if your personal circles are not that diverse to begin with, then you're never going to get that diversity coming in. So my advice would be to do some outreach beyond your circles, do a little bit of research, reach out to groups that are supporting those who are underrepresented in tech and just let them know, hey, we are CFPs open, we would love to have your members submit something, here's some ideas that we're looking for, we want you to attend, we want you to be here, you belong here. I'm making that effort to reach out to people, people that you know in the community as well, or that you have seen, and I'll talk about this in a little bit, but make that extra effort to go beyond your circles. You can collect and publish demographic data on your attendees and speakers, and this is a little bit daunting, I know, because it's a little nerve wracking to know how to properly ask these questions and publish that stuff in a good way. So there is a great project called the Open Demographics Project that can help you navigate that and figure out the best way to ask these questions and to present that data. So I have a link at the end of these slides that will help you find them, because they are amazing. You can also offer a booth or a meeting space to people, to groups who are supporting underrepresented groups. I am a co-founder, was a co-founder back in the day of PHP Women, and this was, you know, I don't know, years ago, 2006 maybe, I don't know, I've been around a long time. And the PHP conferences were great about giving us a little booth space, giving us meeting rooms to have as our home base, our meeting space for each other, where we could connect with each other and just talk to other people in the conference who might be interested in joining up with us. So that's something that's, again, little to no cost you can provide that space and make sure that they know that that's available to them, if they would like it, those groups. Let's talk about centering equity for a minute. So one thing that you can do is when you get your CFPs, you put your CFP up there and you have this spreadsheet or whatever it is of talks, you can anonymize them for a first pass to help remove any of your own unconscious bias in those in those talk rankings if you're on that speaker selection committee. And then you can go back and look and make sure that your your final result is as diverse as you want it, maybe do some adjustments at that time. I also want to just say that please, please, please do not put all your quote unquote diverse speakers in a diversity track. Make sure that it's balanced and and if you see holes that you would like to fill, I will jump down here to point 12345. You can set aside some talk some talk slots that you just invite people to give talks like just let them bypass the CFP process. If you've seen something awesome that they've done, you want them at the conference, just invite them to speak, whether it's a podcast or you know whatever else you've seen, you can do that. That's a thing you can do. And also make sure you have a diverse speaker selection committee because that will help you also mitigate some of that unconscious bias and give a broader perspective on talks that would be great at your conference. You can offer scholarship or financial help. We call them at chaos, we call them diversity access tickets, but you can call them scholarships or whatever you would like to call them. Just to help try to lower that barrier to entry for some of the underrepresented groups in tech, just make it as easy as possible for them to get there. And then finally, you can also, I don't know if you all can see that last one. It says offer a track specifically for first time speakers. I think this is a really great way to kind of help onboard people who don't have a lot of experience and you can make the talk shorter, you can enlist, you know, some seasoned speakers who participate in that offer some kind of gentle feedback, just really to help make that more of a possibility for people to envision themselves as becoming a speaker. All right, let's talk about accessibility for a second. So I put this very first one up there because I have a story about that. I was planning an event in another country, not America. And I just, you know, you kind of get in the mode of, oh, it's a public space. It's, it's, you know, going to be wheelchair friendly. And that was not the case, which we thankfully discovered that before the event. So there was three steps to get into the front door. And I called the venue owner to let him know that we were going to have to change venues. And they weren't very happy with me, but they had a creative solution to how we could solve it without moving the event. And their idea was just to have some really strong volunteers literally just lift people in. That was their solution. But clearly, no, we're not no, that is not a solution. They didn't know. No, absolutely not. So yeah, that was a little bit interesting. Yeah. So needless to say, we ended up switching venues, but I just want to put that out there. I've just, like, that should be obviously, obviously a no brainer. You absolutely have to have that. The second one is, you know, live transcriptions, closed captioning or sign language interpreters. And I think that this should be also a no brainer, just my personal feeling. I personally, sorry, I personally have closed captioning on my TV all the time because I often miss what people are saying. And I watch a lot of British shows and I miss the references sometimes. I don't know what they've said. So I just really like closed captioning. We enable that on all of our chaos meetings. Like it should be a no brainer. So if that is cost prohibitive, you know, that's another sponsorship opportunity. Give give a company a chance to defer those costs for you. So it's something that they would most companies would be happy to help defer those costs. Sighted guides are another way that you can end list volunteers from your community, do a little training session for them and just have them available in case someone needs them. You know, they're there if if it's needed. And it's again little to no cost for you. I saw this at a conference once. Information about the distance between places. So you know, like how far it is from the door to the meeting room, for instance, and then the meeting room to the bathrooms. It seems like this is again another just it takes a little effort from the event organizers to sort that out and figure that stuff out. But it can be so helpful for some people to know what they're dealing with, you know what they're up against and know what they have to do to get from point A to point B. So highly recommend I loved that this conference did that and I thought it was extremely helpful. You can also provide the schedule and other important conference docs in Braille. There are Braille printers who will happily translate what you have into Braille language and print that off for you. At the end of this slides, I've provided another resource for that if it's something that's interesting to you for your conference, you want to look into it. Just one company. There's there's several. So just something to look into again. Another maybe sponsorship opportunity. And then finally if you have a speaker guide that has, you know, things like audio visual stuff or, you know, where is the speaker lounge and things like that. You can easily put in a statement that asks them to check for color blind friendliness in their slides, the colors that they're picking. And again, at the end of this, I've put in one of those checkers that you can put your docs in and it will tell you or it'll show you what it, you know, would look like with various color blindness. So that's something again, that's super easy to do. And it can have a big impact. I want to talk about family friendliness for a second, because I think this is another thing that especially for underrepresented groups who are dealing with families, like that's a barrier for them to come to events a lot of times. So this is something we do ask to in the DEI event badging program is about how the event is attending to family friendliness. And the first one is child care, which I'm happy to say Linux Foundation event team have that here. There is onsite child care if people needed it, which I think is amazing. And that's not a cheap thing to do. Also comes along with some liability stuff. So good for them for making that happen. If and again, if you can't provide that at your events, totally understandable. But it's something that you might want to look into if if you know, again, you have sponsors, another sponsorship opportunity. But if you can't do that, here's some other things you can do. Creative venues. So I don't know if anyone has heard of a conference called code mash. But code mash is not strictly open source, but it is a very large tech conference that happens in an indoor water park in Sandusky, Ohio, which is the home of Cedar Point. They have it in January. So you're not really going to Cedar Point. But the fact is that it's in a huge, huge water park inside. So they make it a party, you know, bring your family, hang out, let's make it a thing. And it's really, really fun. I've also organized a conference, a tech conference, open source conference once at a camp grounds that had a big meeting facility and they had Wi-Fi. So what else do you need? Come bring the family, let's all go camping, let's do some s'mores and hang out at the fire, you know, it was it was a lot of fun. So you can just get creative, I guess as what I'm saying to find events, find venues that are a little more family friendly. Providing an infant feeding or a kid's room, have a room, you know, throw an Xbox in there, throw some, throw some Legos, throw some stuff for kids to do. So that way if people do come with a partner and they do want to pop in and see some talks, their partner has a place to go and hang out with the kids, give the kids something to do. And of course, if there's place for them to feed their child or what they need, whatever they need. I also am a big fan of alcohol free social events, you know, and it's and that's another thing that's not only is it family friendly, it's helpful for everyone, especially those who can't drink or don't want to drink or uncomfortable being at bars, like have have a social event at a bowling alley or, you know, wherever else, another place that is nearby that's super fun to do a painting. You know, there's a there's painting places where you can have events and different things. Just be creative with it. It doesn't have to be necessarily at a bar. I'm really also a fan of kids speaker talks because I think that kids have such a great perspective on things like they aren't old and bitter like I am. So I really like to hear when kids have really get excited about what they're working on. And I love that so much. And a track for kids activities, going back to code match for a second. So they started years ago with with that they had just like the room with just some stuff in it. And then they decided to have maybe a couple of activities that were more formal for kids. And and eventually that part of it grew into a parallel conference with code match and they call it kids match. So they have, you know, teaching kids to code. They have 3D printing. They have Arduino stuff, Minecraft stuff, robotics, all kinds of cool stuff at kids match. And what was really fun is that those of us adults who are code match were kind of like, yeah, we want to go over here because this looks way more fun. This looks like it would be a lot of fun. So, you know, you can grow that as alongside of what, you know, you're doing for the adults just as just as a thought. These are all just thoughts for you to kind of stew over. So I would love to talk about newcomers now because is anybody in here is this their first open source conference they've ever been to? Nobody. OK, well, if you think back to the first one you went to, how incredibly terrifying it was, it was for me. I think the first one I went to is maybe 2004, 2006, I don't know. But I was one of ten women in the room full of hundreds of people, and it was extremely overwhelming, extremely anxious, like anxious. Oh, my gosh, social anxiety. I spent most of my time in my hotel room and did not leave. I finally finally mustered the courage to come out a few times and went to a social event. And I'm glad that I did because I made some friends there, which I'm still friends with now. It's kind of weird, but it's true. But it was just such a terrifying experience. And I feel like if we can make that onboarding into the world of tech conferences a little bit smoother and, you know, again, going back to the thing of conferences can make or break your career. Like what a great way to help those of us who are underrepresented in tech to not feel so underrepresented. So some things that we can do for our newcomers who have never been to an open source event or maybe just one before give them some offline points of connection before the event starts or maybe like like a Slack channel or something that where they can kind of meet each other before the event happens. So at least they know somebody there. They know of maybe not a face, but they know a name. Let them have a pre-event social, just bring them together in small groups. Let them kind of just get to know people so that they aren't walking into this, you know, huge thing. They don't know where anything is. They don't know what to expect. They don't know who they're going to eat lunch with. They don't know if they're even going to be able to find the bathrooms. Like just kind of help them connect with each other. And I think that it's really helpful to overload them maybe with pre-event communication of what to expect. And I mean, you know, everything from when you walk in, you're going to see a sign and you're going to want to go to the left or the right. And you're going to find you're going to be seeing escalators. Like I'm a big fan of giving people the tools so that they can kind of have a little more agency over their own experience and be prepared. Like I hate going into a place where I don't know what to expect. I don't feel prepared. I want to feel prepared. And so I think that giving them that information is super helpful. And again, like no cost. It doesn't cost you anything to do that. Having an onsite personal contact for them specifically, I think is is a really good idea also. So if you're, you know, at your registration table and you're checking people in and you're like, OK, I see you check. Yeah, next, next. And then you've asked us at your registration if they've ever been to an open source event before and they say no. So they come up and then you say, oh my gosh, you made it. We're so happy you're here. I would like to introduce you to Elizabeth. Hi, I'm Elizabeth. I am here to help you. So if you have any questions at all about anything at any time, you text me, you find me, we're all wearing purple shirts. People will find me if you can't see me like I am your contact. I am your your person. So just having that kind of personal connection with somebody, a light in the storm like, you know, a lighthouse. So I think it can be really make a difference. And again, it doesn't cost you anything to make that personal connection and be that person for them. Also, I think it's important to, you know, do a check in with them like you can even schedule an email. You have your list of people who have never been to a conference before. Just send them an email. How are you doing after the first day? You made it. Good job. How was it? Are you OK? Do you need anything? You know, just check in with them periodically to make sure that they're doing all right and that there's there's nothing else that you can provide for them that they need. And then finally, I think having like a newcomer lunch or dinner for me personally, mealtimes are really stressful because, you know, I have some stuff which I'll talk about in a second. But also just who am I going to eat lunch with if I don't know people here? Do I have to like bust in this table of people that already know each other? Like it feels weird. So maybe I'll just, you know, go over here and eat lunch by myself. Like, I don't know. For me, mealtimes are stressful. And so I think organizing something where people kind of have a have a place to go and know what they're doing for mealtime is a good idea. We can also center inclusion in a few other ways as well. If you are providing food for people, make sure that you have a variety of dietary needs. This is my pet peeve. Also, if you have a registration form and you ask about this, let people pick more than one thing. So because I'm a gluten free vegetarian and I can only always just pick one. So I have to decide like where are my loyalties? I don't know. I don't know what I'm doing. So let people pick more than one, give them options, make sure that food is labeled because people have stuff, you know, they're allergic to I'm also allergic to tomatoes. So yeah, I'm super fun at restaurants. I'm super fun, but just let people give the give them the information so that they can make good choices is what I'm saying. Gender neutral bathrooms. Some venues have this. Some don't. So if you have a venue that doesn't, you can ask them, just ask them. Can we make one of these gender neutral? Can we make all of them gender neutral? Sometimes the venues will say, yeah, sure, we don't care. You know, it's just you all we don't care. That's fine. Other times they won't. And then that's up to you as an event organizer to decide what you want to do with that. Consent signals I think are great, like these little green stickers or yellow red, whatever sticker you have just kind of helps clarify what that social contract kind of is and what the expectations are. And I really like them a lot. And again, no cost, right? I shouldn't say no cost low cost for these stickers that just help everybody be on the same page and just signify what level of consent that you're comfortable with. Low bandwidth considerations for those of us who have hard time getting on the internet, especially if you have obviously a virtual event or hybrid event, there are still one in four households in America that do not have access to internet. So it's not a small number of people that still have to make that effort and go find internet wherever they can, whether it's a library or McDonald's or wherever it happens to be. And then, of course, across the whole world, there are also very rural areas that just don't have the infrastructure for it or it's cost prohibitive for them. So just keep that in mind. Some streaming platforms are better than others at this. So just keep it top of mind is all you can do. I will also say if you're a community manager, global time zones are the bane of your existence, right? Like they're terrible because somebody always has to be the one to sacrifice. Either you're staying up late or you're getting up early. That always, always happens. So I would just recommend that you not make the same people make the sacrifice every time. So spread stuff out a little bit better. Maybe have talks in the evening or have talks early in the morning if you have some Europeans that are coming to your event and they're already up because they're off. Maybe they would be willing to do a 5 AM talk or something just so that other people can also participate and not just the people in this time zone. And then, of course, access to recorded talks in case they aren't able to make it, I think, is kind of a no-brainer but it doesn't always happen. So and then finally, just to be mindful of religious holidays when you're picking your event times and days. I know that sometimes you have to kind of go with what's available for the venues that you want. But just being aware of them and if you do have to conflict just acknowledging and providing any support to people there who might need something a little extra for that religious holiday. The last thing I'm just going to talk about is feedback loop is your friend, absolutely 100% your friend. You can always, always, always and should always ask, how can we do better next time? How can we provide something for you next time that we didn't have this time? What are we missing? Sometimes people will give you great ideas and sometimes they'll give you ideas that you aren't just like just not feasible for you for whatever reason if budget or whatever. And that's OK. I think it's important to just acknowledge to them too that, yes, we agree. We would love to provide this, but we just can't. But I think people, when you ask about things like this, it's emotional and to just feel like, oh, my suggestion just went into the void. They don't really care. That's bad. You don't want that. So just react quickly and honestly with things that you can and can't provide. And also, this is another one of my soapboxes that I will stand on. But reactive is great. Like if you ask someone, what do you need at a conference? And then they tell you and you provide it. That's awesome. But being proactive is way better. Some of the stuff I'm mentioning should just be the default. It should just be here. Regardless if someone uses it or not, it should just be here. It shouldn't be a question. It shouldn't be something that someone has to ask for. And that really is the heart of inclusion, is anticipating and having it available in case someone needs it or just to have it there as a safety net. So I know there's some, I will always get pushed back on that from organizers that are working for companies that may say or organizations that may say, well, why would we pay for this if no one's going to use it? And my response to that is it doesn't matter because it should be the default. It should be available. No one should have to ask for a sign language interpreter. No one should have to ask for no special food. No one should have to ask for that. We should just provide it. Here are the list of resources I mentioned. These are all in the slides on Skedge or Sked or however you say that app. They're out there for you. So highly recommend taking a look at that. And then I also, I don't know how much time we have left, but five or six, awesome. So I did leave time for this if we had it. I would really love to hear from you all if you have any other things that you've noticed at events that have just made you feel awesome or included or welcome. I would love to share those or have you share those with me because I would love to hear them. So if anybody has anything and if not, that's also OK. Does anybody have questions or anything? Potato Sundays. That might be a yes. That's a reference I do not. I am not familiar with. So maybe I don't know. So for those of you who relate, I am a nature photographer, which is why I have I'll just put this up here too. Why I have a bunch of pictures of nature stuff in here. And I do a lot of art shows. And people always will come up and show me pictures of their, you know, spiders and their mushrooms. And I love all of it. So I'm really, really happy when people do that. I totally nerd out on the nature level with them. Feel free to connect with me if you like. We would love to have you in chaos. If you have any thoughts about open source community health, we would love, love, love for you to come join us at a meeting or on our Slack. And then if you're into nature photos, I do have about a thousand on my Instagram. So feel free to check about if you would like. So yeah. So I guess that's it. Thanks everybody for coming. I appreciate the gravity of today and the stress of today. And I really, really appreciate all of you being here because you could be anywhere else. And I really appreciate you hanging out with me. So thank you for being here. I know it's a it's a rough day today. So I appreciate you very much. Hospitality. Yeah. Yes. Yes. It's never right. Yeah. That's why I have a hoodie and it's 100 degrees outside because I'm always freezing. But his point was that, you know, hospit hospitality is a good word for kind of just summing it up, just making sure people are OK because you're responsible for the space and you're the host. And so like it's your job to make sure that they're having a good experience and that they want to come back and be a speaker or attend again and not leave open source altogether or leave tech altogether. So yeah. Yeah, that's a good question. We're on the record. Sorry, everyone. But I only it did attend a few talks, not not a ton, but I there's no live transcriptions anywhere at all. And I don't know about the streaming platform. Maybe that's something that was happening. Yeah. OK. So yeah, it would be great if it was in person as well, I think, or sign language interpreters at least. But I think closed caption is a little more a little more inclusive in that if you're not a native English speaker, then you still can take advantage of that. Or, you know, so I think that would be great. I did appreciate the gluten-free bagels. However, like I forgot I was going to bring down the little paper. I've never seen that at a conference. Like I can never eat anything any of the pastries at these events. So I was really excited to have a gluten-free bagel and a gluten-free toaster in which to toast it. So I was very happy about that. It really made my day. I was like excited to get up in the morning. Like, yes, I'm going to get my bagel. So, yeah, that would be my... Yeah, I think that's going to be really challenging. And I don't have all the answers for sure. For sure, I don't. His question was, in the metaverse, include that as a portion or an option for people. Like, how are these things going to translate into that virtual experience? And that's a really interesting thing. And I'm sure that there are smarter people than me already thinking about it. I think it's going to... It might be a little rough at the beginning as we kind of are all on the learning curve, as things kind of unfold. Because humans will surprise you as how terrible they can be. As someone who has worked in community management for 20 years, it never will cease to amaze me, the loopholes and the behaviors that people will exhibit that you did not anticipate because you just aren't at that level. So I think it will be challenging. I think that we should look to leaders in the space for it. Ava Black is an excellent example, I think. And I think we should look to our experiences of our marginalized folks already and the experiences that they have at conferences because they are already experiencing things that others aren't. And so, yeah, I would refer to those to groups of people, the leaders and those who are already experiencing or who have experienced maybe some not great things to prevent, but I don't know if that answered your question very well, but agreed, agreed. And it's kind of a brave new world, right? Like we can't really, it's really hard to anticipate kind of how things are gonna actually unfold. We can guess and try to predict and keep things from happening, but it'll be interesting to see, you know, what the experiences are for sure. All right, I think we're done, yeah. Thank you, oh gosh.