 Welcome to the ongoing election coverage by Town Meeting Television. We're in a slightly different format, not in the studio today. You can see us all in our Zoom blocks. Thanks for joining us. This is one of the many forms that Town Meeting Television is bringing you advance of your local elections on Town Meeting Day, which will be Tuesday, and that first Tuesday in March, March the 2nd, 2021. And of course, Town Meeting Day is traditionally that time when Vermonters go to weigh in on local issues, be them ballot items and initiatives like we'll talk about today, or also local elections. And throughout the entire lead-up, you'll find forms about ballot issues and also candidate forms on Town Meeting Television. The Town Meeting TV forms are introductions for you to these decision makers and these key items that you'll vote on on Town Meeting Day. If you're watching us live today on February the 4th at 1 p.m., you can call in at 802-862-3966. Again, that's 802-862-3966, and we'd love to hear from you. And if you're tuning in, you can also watch us on Comcast, Channel 1087, Burlington Telecom, Channel 17 and 217, and Town Meeting TV's YouTube page. So we are very excited today to welcome two exciting guests. We're happy to have Ward 6 counselor, Karen Paul joining us today, and Bill Pio, who's served a number. I won't try to go through the whole list, Bill, of positions in Burlington through his time as a resident here in the city. So welcome, Bill, and Karen. Thank you. And today we're specifically, thank you. Today we're specifically discussing the city's charter, proposed charter change to allow a seat on the airport commission for the city of Onuski. We'll open up with a couple opening statements from Bill and Karen, and then we'll move to some questions. So, Karen, I don't know if you want to kick us off with a statement about why we're here today. Sure, sure. Happy to. And thanks to Town Meeting TV. I have the pleasure of being the Burlington rep, the city counselor who's on the Burlington, the Town Meeting TV board, and I think this is a great format. Sometimes when there's a mayoral election, these ballot items sort of get pushed to the back burner. And in fact, there are four charter changes that are going to be on the Burlington ballot, and they're important. We can talk about why they're important in terms of a charter change and putting something in the charter, why that is so meaningful, if there's time later. But I'll get on to the reason we're here. I think for me and I think for a lot of people in Burlington, especially for the people who have been working on this for a long period of time for the mayors of and city councils of Onuski and the city council of South Burlington. And I think maybe even Seth has started, when you were in Onuski, this addition of a seat for the city of Onuski is the culmination of a lot of work, particularly over the past couple of years, between the leadership of all three cities, working together and finding common ground. And back in 2013, there was a strategic planning committee for the city or for the airport. And one of the issues was governance. And one of the issues at the time was a seat for the city of Onuski. So, you know, part of this is the fact that we've been talking about this for a long time. And it's a well, in my opinion, a well deserved and very important addition to our charter for Onuski to have a seat at the table to have a voice in collaboration with South Burlington and Burlington. But also, it's in the MOU that was that was now has now been signed by all three entities. As of about a week and a half ago, all three cities signed an MOU and part of that called for the city of Burlington to establish at the next possible charter, at the next possible meeting of the city, which is town meeting day, to have this charter change and for the city of Onuski to then appoint someone to the airport commission. So that's sort of why we're here. It's a very, very short ballot language that's going to be on the ballot. I'm happy to show you that if you'd like. But basically, that's in a nutshell. And it also, it not only allows for a seat for the city of Onuski, but also a seat, an additional seat for the city of Burlington. And the basic reasoning behind that was to maintain the balance, but also to make it an odd number. We try if we can to have commissions that have odd numbers. So I think that was probably more than one minute, Seth. I'm sorry. We should all, we should give equal time to Bill. And more and more. Bill, what brings you here today? First of all, the full disclosure, Councillor Powell and I are very good friends, very close friends. We share political views. And as she said, 99.9% of the time, we agree on many issues. So many ways. So I have this sort of prepared statement that I'm ready to put forth. First of all, it appears that Onuski wants to see a movie, but does not want to buy a ticket. Onuski would like to have a seat on the airport commission only because it wants to. And apparently so does Mayor Weinberger. If this issue passes soon to follow will be maybe Williston, Richmond, Colchester, and so on. This move by Mayor Weinberger is a political one. And I'm not sure why, except perhaps he wanted to give Onuski an olive branch after the mayor's position on the F-35. The director of aviation, Gene Richards, and his very capable staff are doing an outstanding job running the airport. And we've heard this phrase before. If it isn't broken, don't fix it. And we're not in this move certainly would, would, maybe would alter that. The, the airport commission, we talked about some of the issues that have gone on at the airport. The airport commission was not asked for, nor would it have a say in the removal of those 200 homes in South Burlington. We had no say in that. And certainly we would not have approved of that, but that went forth without our approval or disapproval. And I might add the FAA really runs the airport. FAA provides 90% of the funding of the airport. City and, city and state provide the remainder of 10%. So we don't have much say. We were basically at the airport. We're landlords. We're landlords for the airlines. We're landlords for the, for the airport's property. So that's about the main thing that we do. And our relationship in, in, with South Burlington has, has been changing. At one time we had the, the chairman of the airport commission was the member from South Burlington. But I think since then our relationship has changed dramatically. Not long ago, the city, no, the airport is largest taxpayer in South Burlington. We pay more taxes than anybody. Yet the airport, the South Burlington City Council sued the airport for not paying enough taxes. And we had to go through court, through many court expenses and court procedures, and it cost both cities a lot of money. So our relationship in South Burlington as a member of the airport commission has not been that good recently. And adding another, the South Burlington would change the management in the, to the, of the airport in a, with the blink of an eye, they're certainly objected to the strong mayor form of government and wanted to see another avi, wanted to have some say in the aviation director. At one point the Muruski wanted that to happen. But since then Muruski has changed. Now they just want to look at regionalization of the airport as does South Burlington wants us to see a change in operation of the airport. So to add Muruski would be a companion vote to the city of South Burlington to change the management of the airport, which is great. I think those, the management, the airport is doing a very good job and to have this move as part of a organizational effort to change the management of the airport, to remove the airport from ownership of the city of Burlington is not in the right direction. And in, in discussion with Mayor Christine Lott, who's a great gal, a great mayor, and, and as an asset to, to Muruski, I asked her that if Muruski was, would be willing to share the financial responsibilities of the airport. There are times when the city's financial stability relies on the bond issues that the airport issues for its development. There may be issues for taxpayers support of construction or other efforts at the airport. Muruski doesn't want any part of that. So basically Muruski wants to see the movie but doesn't want to buy a ticket. I hope the issue goes down. And just for those watching at home sort of aptly, and with full, I'll say disclosure, I live in Muruski and the F-35s are going over right now. So you might hear a little interference there. Karen, I wondered if you might be able to speak a little bit about the idea of ownership. Bill brought up the city of Burlington owns the airport, but the FAA also makes a lot of decisions. When the voters of Burlington potentially put someone else on to the airport commission, what type of governance activities does the commission do? What functionally are they are they performing? And yeah, if you could talk a little bit about that. Well, you know, I mean, we've gone through different iterations of, you know, the authority of the airport commission. I mean, the airport commission has been around for a very long time. And I don't remember exactly when it was. It was quite some time ago that a seat from South Burlington was added. I would guess it must be, I don't know, at least 20 years ago, maybe longer than that. I really, it was well before I was probably paying that close attention. But the, you know, I think on the city council, speaking as one city counselor, we are busy with a lot of issues. And, you know, as you know from, you know, from Winooski, you can't keep, you can't pay attention to the intricacies of every single issue. That's why we have boards and commissions. And we value, you know, what, I mean, I value what, you know, boards and commissions, their input. And in fact, one of a very good example of this is that, you know, the issue of putting a seat for the city of Winooski on the ballot actually came up in November of last year, or not last year, we were, because we were all in the same room together. So it was November of 19. And, you know, and that was going to be going on a ballot for town meeting day of 19. And I actually was the, one of the people who had said, you know, we don't have, you know, we don't have an MOU yet. We need to agree on the MOU. And the airport commission had never voted on this. And I thought that was important that the airport commission have that voice. So, you know, here we are a year later doing this because the, you know, the airport commission has voted on it. And there were, there are five members of the airport commission. Unfortunately, due to a technical difficulty, Helen really did try to call in. She did not end up calling in however her vote after the fact would have been yes. But it was a 2-2 tie. And those are, you know, in Burlington. So this is not a, this is not an issue that isn't to some degree contentious. You know, I mean, my feeling is that I think we benefit from having Winooski, having a seat at the table. And, you know, Bill is correct that there have been challenges with our relationship with Winooski and with South Burlington. Everything that he said is, is to the best of my knowledge correct. But I think that we have, at times, taken a glass half empty approach as opposed to a glass half full and trying to work collaboratively to find the things that we agree on. One of the things that we agree on is noise mitigation. And we all agree that no, none of the three cities want to see the match that we have to pay for federal funding for this to be taken out of the general, our general funds. Nobody wants that. And so we've worked together to find solutions to that. And those solution benefits benefit all of us. I mean, the issue of the plane that you just heard going overhead, you know, is not an issue that the city of Burlington has control over. And the airport doesn't have control over. This is a an FAA, a federal issue. But we do have control over how we work collaboratively together. And most people would say that the relationship between Winooski, South Burlington, and Burlington has never been better. And I think this MOU and a seat at the table for the city of Winooski is a positive move forward. I see it as a win-win for all of us. Bill, to Karen's point, the maybe the impact of the airport from a sound mitigation standpoint, et cetera, has touches communities around us in a regional basis. The airport also has an extremely high economic value, both to the city, the surrounding communities, the region and the state. Do you think it's in your history of engaging around this, is it normal for a single community to manage an entity like an airport in a region, or is that fairly common? It happens. I don't remember. I know I've been aware of some national studies on this kind of thing, but it's not unusual for a community to own an airport in another city. And there's always controversial. I know that in Charlotte and North Carolina, there was a move by the legislature to remove the ownership of the Charlotte airport away from the city. And that's tied up in court. And I'm sure if we went to regionalization, some of this would happen. But let me address two items that Karen was talking about, and that is noise. As she said, the airport has, and this is one of the concerns of Mayor Lott, she thought it was her impression that being on the airport commission, that we would be able to affect flight patterns, and we don't. We don't have any control over flight patterns of neither commercial nor military aircraft. And another thing I forgot to mention is that all these communities surrounding communities have representation on two committees, regional advisory committees and technical advisory committees that advise the airport and the FAA on what's going on, and the air guarders and the air guarders, part of that, those advisory committees. So all these communities do now have input. And I know that the Manuski has always represented at these meetings that I attend, so that currently there is exchange of information and exchange of ideas and exchange of concerns about certain elements. And I guess the last thing on this particular topic is we have noise monitors. The FAA and Director Richard have put monitors and noise monitors of Manuski in South Burlington and Burlington to monitor all the noise impacts. And particularly the school in South Burlington. We're very sensitive to that. And we're taking measures to do that. But none of this involves advice from the airport commission. This is all FAA directives. Karen, Bill in his opening statement mentioned the efficacy of the administrator of the airport and the staff there. Who appoints the people who run the airport? Is that a city council function? Is it a mayoral office function or does the commission in some way play a role in that? Well, the director of aviation is a mayoral appointment. And every mayor chooses how they run that process, that search. We have been very fortunate to have not had to have appointed a director of aviation for some time because the director of aviation that we have has been there for some time and has been doing an amazing job. I don't think there's any disputing that Gene Richards has done a phenomenal job. I know and Bill certainly is aware having been on the airport commission and on the city council and the work that I've done with the airport that the financial stability of the airport is exemplary. Just back in 2013, you could have measured our cash on hand in hours and now it is hundreds of days. You know, it's a very financially stable, thriving enterprise fund of the city. But the mayor does appoint the director who is then confirmed by the city council. And in most cases that I've seen, and again my history doesn't go that far back, but what I have seen is that there's usually a committee made up of airport commissioners and, you know, interest, you know, other stakeholders, which usually includes the airlines as well. And recommendation is made to the mayor who either decides who wants, you know, two options, three options, whatever that may be. And that decision is then made by that, by the mayor. I mean, it definitely is not a, you know, again, it's up to the mayor, but, you know, the hope always is that it's an inclusive process. People go in and out of the building to get on airplanes and probably don't think for a moment as they walk through the doors, who's keeping the lights on, so to speak, right? Well, you know, it's interesting you should say that, Seth, because, you know, when I travel, which of course hasn't been recently, but when I travel, I oftentimes will get off a plane and I will see a sign that says, you know, your airport commissioners, and there's pictures and, you know, probably 20 years ago I probably would never have looked, but I do now because, you know, it does matter who's running the airport. And of course, I'm obviously very attuned to it. You know, when you get off, in some airports, they actually have pictures and everything, something that we should work on, Bill, so that you have your picture at the airport when people get off a plane and they say, yeah, that's Bill Keough. I like the looting cutout, frankly. Just a reminder, the callers for the next seven or eight minutes here can call us live at 802862 3966 if you've got any questions. I'd love to pivot to what folks are going to see on March 2nd and what they'll actually be doing at the polls and seeing. So a charter change is not a small thing. So what will folks expect to see when they go to the ballots? In terms of, you know, actually, it's a I'm glad that we're having this conversation now as opposed to a week ago because there was a slight change when we voted on this last Monday. The, you know, because of the fact that we are so many people are going to be voting absentee, the vast, vast majority are. Normally, when you would go in, you'd receive a ballot, it would be the language for a charter would be very short so that it fits on a ballot. And the council agrees to that and agrees to the wording. And then the long form, which is oftentimes many paragraphs is in front of you when you go to vote in a ballot booth. Well, because of the fact that most people aren't going to be doing that this year, we're going to be sending it to people when they receive their ballot. That was a change that we made. And, you know, whether people will read all of it, I don't know, but I think it's important that people understand that the short form is within a part of the charter. And given the fact that people will have plenty of time to vote, I hope that people will read it and will ask questions and will reach out to people if they don't understand or want to make sure that they know exactly what they're voting on. But a charter changes important. And once it's in there, once it is approved by the voters, it goes to the legislature. Bill as a former legislator can speak to this better than I. What goes on when it gets to Montpelier and then when it comes back? I don't know. That might be a good segue, Seth, because he's much more of an expert than I am and the mechanics of what happens when it gets out of Burlington and gets down the interstate to Montpelier. Well, first goes to the government operations committee in the house and they will hold public hearings on this measure and all other charter changes. And then it goes to the floor of the house. It has to be voted out of the house. And then it goes to the Senate government operations committee and goes through the same process. And then if it passes, by the way, the words can be changed along the way. But the final step is have the governor approve it. Now, I don't know if the legislature has had similar legislation municipal changes, but it takes a long process because I would imagine that this item, if it passes, the voters would not be a high priority for the government operations committee in either chamber, but you never know what's going to happen. And doesn't it also, I'm sorry, Seth, doesn't it then also have to go to the governor? Yeah, governor has to sign it. It's the final sign up. And also, Karen, when will we get our ballot? What do you think we'll be receiving our mail in ballots? I think they're supposed to go out the 10th of February. So today is the fourth. So the 10th must be just, you know, in about a week, I think maybe whether I believe it, that's when it goes out. So maybe by the, it might be the 12th, might be the 11th or 12th, but plenty of time for people. And this, and actually in some ways, that's really a good thing because people have plenty of time to read the charter language. And if they really have questions, there will be many opportunities, including the informational meeting that we have on, you know, on the ballot. So, you know, there's plenty of opportunities. I hope people will read these, these ballots. It's sort of like what I said at the very beginning, because of council races and a mayoral election, sometimes these things take go to the back burner. And I think that's unfortunate because they are really important. I mean, not to say that the other things aren't important. They all are equally so. And I hope people will read and, because, you know, they do have lasting effects. As we said, as we said before we went on the air, you know, they are, it's a process to put them into the charter. And it's a process to change them as well. And for anyone at home or a first-time voter wondering what a charter is, Google Dylan's Rule states. And you'll understand how power dynamics work between the state of Vermont and local municipalities. It's a great way to start to understand how important that charter is. And just to clarify too, for voters, if they vote yes on the change, then it would add that C. And if they vote no, then it would be that. And there are other charter chains proposed. Will they vote on the entirety of the charter? Will they vote on the individual charter proposed changes as single items? Oh, there are all, there are single, there's four charter changes on the Burlington ballot. And they're all in short form. And they will be voting on them one at a time. Great. And Bill, one last quick question before we wrap up. Yeah. Well, we have not brought up another major point. This, this is a seat by the, the seat is for a person from Munozki, but it also adds a seat from Burlington. Now, we didn't talk about that, but add two seats to the commission, one from Munozki and one from Burlington. So that the Burlington representation on the airport commission would still be a majority. So I want to emphasize that. Yeah. Very good. Well, thank you both very much for joining us today. It was a great conversation. Any just last quick snippets before we say goodbye and sign off? Only you got to vote guys. You got to vote whether you're absentee or unperson. Do it. That's absolutely true. I'll second that. And also, many, many thanks to town meeting TV for, for having these forums. And if there are, if there are people in Burlington who have questions on this or people in Munozki, I hope that they will reach out to their city counselors, to members of the airport commission. You can find our email addresses on the city website, Burlington VT.gov. And we're happy to answer your questions. It's great. Thank you very much. And thank you both for your service and many, many hours spent on issues like this. As you said, Karen, don't always get as much attention as maybe they should. Stay safe. Thank you all very much for joining us on town meeting television today. Again, you can find more of these forums at www.ch17.tv.com. And be sure to tune in for more of these forums and candidate forums coming up and get ready to vote that first Tuesday in March, town meeting day, March the second 2021. Remember early voting by mail is already available in some towns, but contact your town clerk for details and polls should be open also from 7 a.m. to 7 p.m. Be safe out there. Thanks for joining us to both of you and thanks for watching at home.