 All right. Fantastic. Good afternoon, once again, everybody. If you heard Professor Jeffrey Sacks this morning, he said that education is the key to achieving the sustainable development goals. So you have come to the most important session of the day. Congratulations. Give yourselves a round of applause. We're very excited to have all of you here with us today. And we're excited to hear from a very esteemed panel from all over the region doing who have done and are continuing to do some amazing things in their countries and across the region. My name is Sun Seng. I'm the CEO of Teach From Malaysia. We are an organization that believes that every child, no matter what their background, deserves to realize their potential in life. And the key to that is through quality education. And so we're looking to mobilize our most passionate, promising, and diverse leaders to serve as teachers and education leaders and to some of the most high-need communities in the country. And we are here to talk about Target 4.7. And I'll just read that out to you. So the SEG Target 4.7 says that by 2030, to ensure that all learners acquire the knowledge and skills needed to promote sustainable development, including, among others, through education for sustainable development and sustainable lifestyles, human rights, gender equality, promotion of a culture of peace and nonviolence, global citizenship, and appreciation of cultural diversity, and of culture's contribution to sustainable development. We rapidly need to shift our education systems away from just a knowledge recipient system where students are receptacles of knowledge, to shifting it to how do our students have the skills to be able to navigate the changing world and to create solutions for a sustainable future. How do we do that? Big, big questions about how do we do that? So we have a very exciting panel that I'm excited to introduce to all of you today. So first up, we have Dr. Norhisham. He is the head of educational planning for the International Education Unit at the Education Planning and Research Division, EPRD, at the Ministry of Education. And he oversees all of the ESD work. Like me, and a number of us on the panel, Dr. Hisham was an English teacher in secondary school, just like Ibu Ija, myself, Dr. Ethel, all English teachers in the past. So you have people that are making policy but understand what it was like to teach on the ground. Next, we have Dr. Ethel Agnes Pasqua Valenzuela from the Philippines. She was the first female director of the Southeast Asia Minister of Education's organization and is currently the education advisor for the future of education, ASEAN, from the Philippines, where my mother is from. And I'm very excited to have you here with us. And she's gonna provide us a regional perspective about how we move forward. Next, we have Ibu Ija from Indonesia. She's the executive chair of the Indonesian National Commission for UNESCO, Ministry of Education, Culture, Research and Technology Indonesia. She has 42 years of experience in education, a massive activist for education reform but has somehow been attracted to come into working with government, having been on the other side of government, criticizing them now is driving reform across the ministry. And Indonesia is sort of the pride and also the envy of ASEAN at this point when it comes to education. So very excited to have you with us. And then we have assistant professor Ahtapol from Thailand. He is the director of the Center for Educational Research and Development for Sustainable Development at the Chulalangkorn University in Thailand. Also started off as a teacher in school and has been in teacher development for more than 20 years. So excited to hear his practical experience working with capacity development of teachers. And then finally we have Karen. She is the director of education studies at the UN Sustainable Development Solutions Network, Asia headquarters here in the Sunway University of Malaysia. And she's gonna share with us a lot about the work that SDSN has discovered in Malaysia and also the work regionally that they hope to facilitate. So we have an exciting panel lined up for us. Can we give them a big round of applause? And so we're going to quickly go through sort of three rounds of questions or themes with the panel. First we're going to have a bit of an understanding of the work that they're doing in their national or regional context. What's happening in relation to education for sustainable development in their countries or across the region. Then we're going to go the next round understanding what are some of the challenges? You know, we can talk about the aspirations, the plans that we have. What are the challenges in terms of implementing that? And then the final round we will then talk about what are some practical takeaways, right? How do we monitor? How do we evaluate the effectiveness of these things? How do we finance these things? How do we get people to work together towards these aspirations that we have? So after three rounds across the panel we will then open it up for all of you for a Q&A session to close up this session together. So are you all ready to get on this together? Yes, all right, great. So Dr. Hisham, first welcome and we're so excited to have you with us. And we know that the Ministry of Education in Malaysia has gone through this massive transformation effort through the Malaysian Education Blueprint. We're also in the process of reviewing the curriculum for Malaysia. So could you share the national mandate of the Ministry of Education, Malaysia, in delivering education for sustainable development at scale? And how does the Ministry plan to implement ESD? Thank you Hisham. Ladies and gentlemen, good to see everyone here. Am I audible at the back? All right, okay, good. So when you talk about mandate on ESD in the education system, especially in Ministry of Education, first we have of course our Malaysian Education Blueprint where it is towards the end of our planning and to achieve our goals. When we talk about ESD, it has actually in the blueprint itself from the beginning when we restructure the planning. So education for sustainable development is actually what is also transpired from the government policy where I think everyone are familiar with the word Madani now. Yeah, so in English, the version of Madani, we call it script. And the letter S is about sustainability. So taking from this spirit of Madani, actually what we plan and what's in the blueprint has already outlined the sustainable development and this is already in line with what we have in the curriculum and also in the education system where we aspire students and the educators to get towards sustainable lifestyle to get our students to be more, to create more, to develop more students with values and to develop 21st century skills where it's all actually in line with the sustainable development aspiration. So with that, in 2019, I mean, sorry, 2021, the Prime Minister back then have already made our national statement of commitment in New York on sustainable development assembly, in the General Assembly, UNESCO General Assembly. And we have commit to ensure that the journey towards achieving 2030 goals, especially in SDG4 is to impart the effort to enhance ESD as well. So part of it is because it is our aspiration to develop, like I said just now, students with values, sustainable lifestyle and as well as incorporating 21st century skills. So this is very important mandate that we impart to all educators, teachers in schools and students to get towards this. And if you realize in our national curriculum there's already elements of sustainable development where we have in the curriculum what we call cross-curriculum elements where we have environmental and global sustainability component in various subjects in the curriculum. That shows that the ministry has already embarked long before the MEB and also from long before the SDG itself that the curriculum is geared towards sustainability and especially when we talk about ESD in the curriculum. We also have this book what we call Global Sustainability Implementation Guidelines. So this is the guideline for teachers to try and incorporate ESD in their teaching and learning in the classroom. So the guidelines give teachers more ideas and guides for them to incorporate these elements in their teaching and learning. So if you talk about mandate it's been there in our system and we hope that our teachers and students can deliver it in their teaching and learning. Thank you for sharing that. So it's been there for a very long time and so when we come back to you later we'll then talk about what are the challenges of are we seeing that actually translate on the ground. Dr. Ethel, so let's zoom out from Malaysia and take an ASEAN perspective. So you have been tracking how ASEAN countries are maintaining ESD in their policies and you have also published an ESD toolkit for Southeast Asia. So could you share with us a bit about your observations around this work? How is ESD happening? How is it being integrated across ASEAN? Thank you very much and thank you very much for choosing this room and joining us in mission 4.7 which is like mission impossible. Well, I would like to tell you about my journey. So since I was in CIMIO this regional organization for education ministers for 17 years the work that I did was more of helping the countries in bringing ESD at the time from 2004 to the 2014 the decade of ESD. So in that sense, so we did a mapping of all the time. It was a very new concept. ESD just said they're all very new. So what we have seen we did a lot of workshops with representatives from industries of education. So for example, Bernard Jerusalem, it's still the SPN 21. They've embedded ESD in this particular curriculum where you can promote all the different dimensions and indicate ESD. They also are attuned with the DESD. If we look at Cambodia, for example, the policy review election. I'm very lucky because ASEAN already presented all the frameworks and declarations. So I will not repeat those. But Cambodia did an action plan which integrated ESD. And Laopiliar also did their education plan which is called the EESD of 2021 to 2025. So Laopiliar already embedded ESD in their very own sector development plan. Of course Indonesia, like very exciting time. They have done a lot of emancipated curriculum focusing on the foundational learning but not neglecting ESD. So they have embedded in the pan-casila concept as well as the local content in the curriculum. You can find that in different subjects, civic awareness, religious and moral subjects. Malaysia has been sharing with us the current trends, the ESD indicators and the blueprint is the one that they have presented where we can see ESD concepts and embedding ESD from 2013 to 2025. So maybe you are working now on the new decade plan. And Myanmar, for example, of course, they had a lot of issues on peace and development but ESD is in their peace and development strategy. So we have also helped capacity the teachers to bring ESD in the classroom. Philippines has a lot of policies and it's on climate change. It's also a strategy and also developing a lot of intercultural or GZ concepts in place as well as ESD in the environmental education curriculum. Singapore is really out there with a very strong climate change and greenhouse samples and models. We cannot catch up with Singapore with all of their commitments to sustainable development. In the curriculum, you can see that in social studies in primary, character education is there. So it's really a lot of things to benchmark with when it comes to sustainable development in Singapore. Thailada will not explain a lot because Dr. Atapola, whom I have been working for a long time in capacity building on ESD, they have this policy, the Thai 4.0 curriculum and they have also specific concept really Thai sufficiency economy philosophy and that includes all the attitudes, mindfulness, behavior, entrepreneurship embedded in the sufficiency economy philosophy of King Rama IX. And Vietnam has been nurturing their city, their concept of really literacy city and the ESD agenda is also embedded in their curriculum. However, it's not just looking where they are in terms of curriculum, in terms of education. We have been doing a lot of capacity building, moving from one country to another and training the trainers. So we did with Dr. Atapola and the rest. So I created what we call as the Southeast Asian ESD fellows. We have been meeting online. We have webinars, we have these and that. And during the pandemic, our work mostly was online. But I think because now I'm doing the future of education of ASEAN, which is a big responsibility, I would like to put a bigger part, like a whole book on ESD. It's the third book that I am doing. So first is on, of course, on COVID responses, transformation, et cetera. And the second book, T-shirt mobility and capacity building for ASEAN. And the third book is actually on ESD. So my time is up. I want to talk a lot, but I have to move on. Thank you very much. Thank you, Dr. Ethel. So it sounds like across the region there are lots of things that are happening. There are commitments that everybody is making, right? And then when we come back to you, we'll see whether between the commitment and the reality, what that gap looks like. Moving on to Ibu Ija. Like I said, the pride and envy of Southeast Asia. Anyone in education has been, I believe, would have been inspired by Indonesia's education reform efforts in recent years. And Indonesia's made significant strides with Merdeka Belajar or the emancipated learning concept. So can you tell us a little bit about that? What is that and how has it been implemented in Indonesia? Thank you. And I think the idea of this transformation that makes me move from the other side to inside. Because I can see how rigorous is the intention of the minister and how it fits to the needs of today's education for young people. Well, actually Merdeka Belajar is like a national tech line for national education transformation. This is actually a very smart way of putting the transformation in the form of episodes. So the Merdeka Belajar is launched per episode. Episode one is dealing with things that's very, very much making teachers busy, et cetera. That's on the uniform lesson plan. So that was episode one. That is something that the minister issued at that time at the end of 2019. And then it follows by, you know, next episode, next episode, and then come to episode 15 that is on Curriculum Merdeka. What is the philosophy of the Merdeka Belajar? It's actually to put together efforts of any stakeholders in education, including members of society, foundation, philanthropies, together improving the quality of education. And this is actually a very new kind of approach in including everyone to work together to improve the quality of education from the policy to the implementation. So I think this is a very good approach to include everyone in the education through Merdeka Belajar, emancipated learning. I don't know where it comes from, but I asked the minister, where is it from? Well, I want to give the feeling of the sense of freedom to everyone because Indonesia is so diverse and education cannot be put in one fit for all strategy. So that's why by having Merdeka Belajar, it gives the sense of contextualization. In any region, they can develop curriculum that fit not only into their region, but into their school. Then I said in Merdeka Belajar 15, the government issue curriculum Merdeka. This curriculum, the basic principle of this curriculum is contextualization, contextualizing with the region, schools, and then teaching should be meaningful, should be deep, and should not be, what is it, directed by teaching materials, but it has to take only the fundamental issues need at a certain age. And then in this curriculum also, the competence is not per year, but per two years. So it's phase one is for grade one and grade two, phase B, oh no, not one, phase A is for grade one and grade two, and phase two for grade three and four, et cetera. And then the other one that is interesting in the Merdeka Belajar is the integrity, sorry, the government includes Pancasila as the output of the students profile. So the students profile is students pelajar Pancasila. Then we don't only, the government do not only, you know, embracing what the ESD, but also using what exists in the important, as the important part of our country. That is the philosophy, Pancasila, as you probably know that Pancasila, number one is believing God, number two is humanity, number three is unity in diversity, number four is democracy, and at the end it's social justice. This five principle is more than enough to lead our education into the ESD. Thank you, thank you for that. And so we see, I think that's also a powerful example of how we see ESD contextualized, right? It's not like we're just taking it because the UN made it up, but how does that come and relate to our national identity, who we are as a people, and focusing the purpose of education back on this at the end of the day, right? Who are we as a people? Dr. Atapult, so you've been involved in capacity building programs, so we've talked about the concept and policy, but at the end of the day, if that doesn't translate into changes in the ways in which teachers implement or teachers help their students to make connections with sustainable development, then it all falls apart, right? So can you share with us about the capacity building programs that you have been running to support ESD in Thailand? Back to the old days, 25 years ago, when I worked in the school as a teacher at Social Studies and Emeritus Education. So when we started the ESD agenda at the global level, in Thailand we tried to combine between EE and ESD. So my background is trying to scale up from Emeritus Education to touch upon the ESD. Up until now, in July, we have got many courses to promote the concept of ESD. In the faculty education, we have the ESD course. It's a compulsory course for the undergraduates who will be the teachers in the future. And at the same time, we have got the introduction to ESD. It's a general education course for students across July. We tried to combine between ESD theory, research, and practice at the community level. For my work, I teach in the faculty education. Most of my work is focused on the teacher preparation. But many years ago, when my students graduated, I started to work in school. They have got many complaints and struggled about the school culture. That's the reason why I started to work with school more and more to do the teacher development program. Originally, I was invited to be the speaker and the trainer for many workshops. And their file is very failed because it's like a one event and it ends up with a teacher back to school and struggled how to implement the new thing in the school. Within these 10 years, I try to make like a network of teachers and try to build up the learning community within school. Most of my work on the ESD now, I try to work on the school transformation and provide many topics related to the ESD to integrate in the existing curriculum. My center now takes charge for the GSAT, Global Teaching Education. We work with FCU in Korea to develop like a GSAT school. I use it like a platform to promote the ESD. It's like a new alternative. In Thailand, we have got the strong background on SAP, Southeast Economic Philosophy. It's like a mainstream in Thailand now. What I try to do is provide alternative on the GSAT and many topics like social justice education, democratic citizenship education. Now we have got the strong network among teachers we call Thai SIG education. The cost that we develop is like a thematic base. Social justice education, teaching history to come across the head and to make more understanding and do a peace education and at the same time do a thing like an ESD education. What we try to do now is to work with the policymaker. Now we have got the big project with the Bank of Metropolitan Administration that our target is 400 schools in Bangkok to integrate the concept of ESD and GSAT to lower secondary schools first and they're scaling up to the whole area of the Bangkok Metropolitan. That's what we have tried to do now. Fantastic. Thank you so much. And so really thinking about across the spectrum from pre-service even in-service how do we support teachers to continuously develop towards that. Now to Karen. So last year you published a report on the status of ESD in Malaysia. So could you tell us a little bit about what prompted that pilot study and what were some of the key findings out of that study? Thank you. Thank you, Sun Singh. Thank you everyone for being here. Yes indeed, we did publish a report last year. It's actually available here so before you leave you can get a copy. If you don't get a chance to pick up a copy if they run out it's also available on our website unsdsn.org or mission4.7.org So what prompted us to do this study? So mission 4.7 is actually it's a global consortium that was launched in December 2020 and it was something that it was the product of the coming together of minds between Pope Francis, the leaders of UNESCO as well as the former secretary general of the UN Ban Ki-moon. So they launched this mission as some would call mission impossible and the whole objective of mission 4.7 was to make education for sustainable development something that is widely mainstreamed into education systems around the world because it was seen as a number one something that could really be transformational which was what the world needed and number two it had the potential of as professor Jeffrey Sachs said this morning dealing with all of the crisis that we are facing today because without education we do not have a viable future we would not have the capacity to solve the health crisis the climate crisis the poverty crisis all of this requires knowledge but it also requires that sense of responsibility and that attitude of I can make a difference and this is something that I'm passionate about and I want to do something about it whether now or in the future so that was its main objective to make this kind of knowledge mainstreamed its second objective is to look for what are pedagogical innovations that can be incorporated into existing curriculums around the world Curriculums to review and revise curriculums is something that takes a very long time but you can still identify pedagogical innovations that can be applied in existing curriculums so that was the second objective and the third was to look for best practices and opportunities around the world that are working and that can be widely disseminated for shared learning so when shortly after this launch SDSN which had offices in New York and Paris decided to open an office for Asia and now that office is here in Malaysia hosted in Sunway University and one of its mandates was to advance mission 4.7 in this part of the world in the Asia Pacific so because we are based in Malaysia and because the Malaysian system is always something that people talk about often they say it needs reform education is required we've been hearing this for years if not decades so we said why not start with Malaysia let's look let's study what is the status of ESD in Malaysia so we decided okay let's use Malaysia as the pilot and that's what prompted the study so we did it and these were our main findings we looked at policy particularly the Malaysian education blueprint and in the blueprint we found there were it's a fantastic comprehensive policy document and it's so aligned with ESD in the MEB there are 11 shifts and out of those 11 8 of them align with ESD aspirations so it doesn't explicitly talk about ESD because it was written before the SDGs but it's very aligned that was one we looked at curriculum we mapped the curriculum against the sustainable development goals and their targets and we found that with the revised curriculum the elements of sustainable development and global citizenship were there not completely but to a significant extent they existed and then we interviewed many stakeholders mainly school teachers as well as practitioners, policy makers and this was the most interesting part because they all agreed it's there but they felt that especially the teachers they felt they did not have enough knowledge for them to effectively deliver that knowledge in the classroom so this came up as a point for intervention, for potential intervention and SDSN being solutions builders this is potentially an area where we can build a solution around so teacher professional development the other one was to find cross disciplinary connections because subjects are delivered in school in a siloed manner there's not that much interdisciplinary learning taking place in public school classrooms I'll stop there and continue we're going to pick off that and we're going to get into some of the challenges I apologize Dr. Yixiang because we're Malaysian so we might know the context a bit more and be a bit more hard on one another but I was reading a study that was done by UKM that was published last year and they interviewed teachers about climate change and their climate change knowledge and all of the teachers had some general that were interviewed all had some general knowledge about climate change but there were misunderstanding about some of the scientific facts about climate change so for example a big reason that teachers believed that a cause of climate change was they were saying that the usage of air cons and the release of CFCs through the usage of air cons is causing the ozone a hole in the ozone to increase and therefore that's the cause of climate change but we know that the ozone is closing that the CFC issue is not an issue is not the same issue that it was in the 90s but teachers believe that that's the cause of climate change so we know that in policy we are committed towards ESD and we've seen the study that Karen did we have a lot of things that are in place but what are the challenges and what are the gaps that we need to address in Malaysia alright first off, thank you Karen for that report and actually Karen has become a next best friend after we have really sit down and talk about the findings of the report and though as the ministry of education office I will not defend that the statement just now but anyway we have to admit that in the education system in Malaysia we are quite ambitious so we have a lot of subjects we integrated a lot of knowledge across the curriculum as I mentioned in the first session just now we have these cross-curricular elements in our curriculum which is actually on paper I have to admit it is very ideal for us to achieve our goals and that is what we get our ecosystem in the schools with the teachers towards that goal so when we talk about challenges this is actually the first challenge that is very apparent and I have to echo what Karen was saying is the teachers so the capacity building of our teachers and the research by UKM last year was actually second that our teachers have a lot at their hands you know if you read the media the teachers burden is overwhelming so this may cause by a lot of pressures to the teachers but however they have to keep up with the curriculum with the aspiration of the MEB and the education ministry have been putting a lot of effort to support our teachers however the challenge is still there to engage teachers with the pedagogical skills to embed all these cross-curricular elements in their teaching and learning where the demands of the public parents that their kids need to score A's and it's all about result oriented has been very challenging for our teachers so that could really explain the effort that we need to work on is to streamline the training of our teachers so that they know the skills that they could enhance their skills to embed these ESD elements and other cross-curricular elements in their teaching and learning so that's why recently we embarked on initiatives to embed global citizenship education ESD in the teaching and learning and that's why this is still on going processes that we are looking for a lot of collaboration with our partners and agencies on this and number two we are also facing challenge in terms of the impact assessment of ESD of course we have the guidelines for teachers to embed to integrate ESD principles and elements in their teaching and learning but however we still haven't done any impact assessment whether our teachers have freely done that in their classroom teaching so they are mainly focused on their own subjects that is the nature of our teachers they are tagged with their subject content so that's why the culture of integrating cross-curricular or cross-subject teaching and learning is still not there in our teacher's culture so we are working very hard to try and get this across to the teachers and talking about another challenge is that expertise to do this when we talk about ESD I think we have a lot of experts over to train our teachers to integrate these elements in their teaching and learning we still need some help that's why we engage with a lot of our partners to do this and they have some very pockets of programs for our teachers and students so that's why we don't see it happening nationwide but we know that a lot of schools have about this training for their teachers and they have programs with teachers and students on ESD elements so a lot of initiatives on ESD in terms of capacity building among teachers are there but it's done in silo and it's just pockets of programs thank you Teacher from Malaysia is always willing to help the ministry with any capacity building needs Doctor Ethel we talked about the fact that by and large every country in ASEAN has a commitment to ESD but we are 7 years out from the deadline of this 2030 agenda of all kids having access to ESD in their education can you give us a glimpse what are the gaps and what are the biggest priorities that we need to be focusing on as a region thank you very much I think one of the things I have learned all throughout my journey as as an educator and as a policy maker as a regional advocate of ESD is that we need to face realities so early on in the early stage of ESD and GZ we're dreaming that it can be a separate subject every country should have a separate subject they cannot see where it is so there were a lot of discussions and workshops about having ESD as a subject but we failed every country would say no our curriculum is so packed up we cannot have another subject of ESD and GZ however we can see also pockets of success that since 2012 we're working on these we were able to have an assessment of GZ Global Citizenship Education first testing of GZ which we launched with UNICEF and Simeo with the help of ACER we were able to see where we are in Global Citizenship Education Peace, Environmental Education where our learners are and we have seen that our learners from ASEAN are actually better in terms of GZ appreciation of peace, environmental education the concept of working together they know about this but a little knowledge only of that's where we need to improve that the next generation will have a better appreciation of the world not just their country they are so engrossed on their country's issues politics everything but they don't know what's happening in the region so that we need to improve and the second we're now doing with ASEAN funding ASEAN Korea funding the second round of assessment and we're very happy that it's being funded because the hardest thing is to really look for funds for organizations when you have a goal let's measure again GZ after all of these let's measure again and then maybe we'll see better things from 80% maybe it can be 90% by 2030 who knows so we have a funding the survey will be this year and next year and maybe ASEAN will be able to report to you where we are by 2024 or by 2025 now the biggest gap also is funding we have lots of energy to train but we don't have a lot of money we can only do 2 or 3 trainings per country a year I get funding from Korea for GZ ESD Japan but this is like 1, 2 or 3 it cannot reach everybody all teachers 100% so I'm still dreaming that this will be prioritized and even if there are no funding from UNICEF, UNESCO, ASEAN, ADB whatever that countries with big funding, national funding will initiate their own training advocacy and capacity building we need to own this because there are so many agenda and if we don't really help our own country level up in terms of peace social justice, environmental education, climate change, everything then we will have all of those that were reported this morning, what the world will be without better understanding of ESD and mission 4.7 so I think the biggest realization is I gave up on one subject now I move on few gains assessment of GZ where they are and third is that focusing more because we know it's already in the curriculum it's already embedded more and more teachers have the capacity to integrate peace, environmental education in math, English they're all there, the capacity is there but we need to do more there are so many unreached, there are so many schools in the far flung areas they don't know about this maybe so I think it's the national government every ASEAN member state should take the initiative to really put budget, financing capacity building research on ESDG Z and 4.7 so that it will not be a mission impossible but it's a big accomplishment of our region thank you thanks Dr. Ethel back to you Ibu Eija we've heard about the big picture in Indonesia and this question about challenges sounds like a great plan what have been the challenges of implementation in Indonesia? yes the devil is in the detail right the transformation the picture of the transformation can be great but then when it comes to implementation then of course for a country diverse country like Indonesia with 17,000 islands and 800 languages spread all over the islands then even from saying that it's been a challenge already however the government is trying to make use of the existence of technology so much and first thing that they develop is the Merdeka platform emancipated teaching platform it's a platform dedicated for teachers to share ideas and to learn together so it's a there are different in this in the platform there is a part for experts to send things for teachers to learn and then there are parts that give opportunity for teachers to share one another this works so well and accessed by millions of our teachers this is very good and still there are challenges with teachers in remote areas the government has been trying to provide offline sort of resources to be sent and this is challenging but there is another challenge which is harder the shift of paradigm from being a teacher being principal superintendent who are directed tightly through regulations to freedom it's not easy to shift the mindset to rearrange to redesign to rethink of how to conduct education that should be contextualized to their schools to their regions without tight direction from the authorities and this is I think it's not only in terms of practice but also in terms of the administration the bureaucrats also need to unlearn how to manage education not only the teachers and principals and superintendent but also the bureaucracy usually they direct teachers principals through different kind of regulations but now from the Ministry of Education it's not allowed to be directed very tightly by the local government and this is the most challenging because to change behavior it's not easy it takes a bit of time and then another challenge is sifting the paradigm of having sessions teacher professional development face to face to online it's very hard to direct them to see how the technology how the professional development can be directed not by a teacher trainer or professional who comes to your place but by doing it yourself so developing the attitude of self-study self-responsibility it's another challenge well if talking about distribution of materials of resources it can be very easy because we can do lots of things but changing the mindset I think it takes a bit of time and it takes the courage the political will of all the authorities in the region and in the center government to maintain the policy that has been implemented and wait until a certain period of time to see the impact because the impact of an education policy will never be instant thank you so many things but a lot of lessons out of that back to you approximately 700,000 teachers in Thailand that's almost double the number of teachers in Malaysia so what in your view are the current gaps in teacher training you know we've heard that in the Malaysian perspective capacity building of teachers is key and so what are gaps in the Thai system what can we learn from that to me I try to sum up three info challenges and the gap for ESD implementation in the teacher preparation and capacity building very first year that I worked as an ESD educator big question for me is how can the help school make it happen in the classroom and in school but ten years later the big question is how to make it happen effectively in the school and classroom because there are many projects in school related to ESD many schools try to do things like with learning in the community level or something but how can we develop the good lesson how can we develop the quality of learning and when we face that the first challenge is how to make it happen we have to concern about the gap between teacher preparation in the faculty education and what teachers face in the real world we prepare them to teach integration but when they work in school they work separately we try to help them create a very innovative innovative teaching but when they teach in school with the big workload 24 hours a week they do the lecture so we need to work with school, the existing school the big challenge for me the third one is how to change the school how to work with school work with teacher at the school level and how to help them contextualize the ESD in the real context when we talk about ESD program in the northern part of Thailand in the mountain area it should be different for the southern area close to the seaside it means that we need to build up the teacher autonomy in the school the fourth thing, how to build up the teacher efficacy, teacher autonomy to develop their own school curriculum integrated the ESD and when we need to do that we need to create like a learning community within school like a key mechanism to drive the school we have to change the program from teaching alone to working on teaching together among teacher community in the school it's very challenging for us and we cannot wait for them to change by themselves we have to engage teacher educator that's what I try to do within many years ago to work with the teacher educator build up the teacher educator network and allow them support them to work with school they can bring their expertise to work with the teachers and at the same time they learn from the existing context and bring back to the teacher preparation program in the faculty education that's what we learn from the existing world thank you not easy to address all of those all of those things so Karen we've heard about the challenges from across the region so can you share with us some of the regional ESD interventions that the SDS and carries out in ASEAN that could complement the national policy making and professional development of teachers I think when we talk about interventions it is something that is extremely difficult to do as we heard from my fellow panellists as well simply because there can never be a one size fits all solution for everybody in the context of a country there cannot be a one size fits all we can come up with training programs we can come up with guidelines but we cannot disseminate it in the same way widely and expect everybody to be able to pick it up adopt it and run with it immediately it's not going to work so it is extremely difficult because it has to be very very tailored very customized based on the need of a particular community whether it's a school if it is a school the needs of a rural school or an orang asli school is going to be very different from the needs of an urban affluent school or an urban poor school so every intervention has to be extremely customized and that's what makes it very difficult it makes it very resource intensive makes it expensive to roll out on a wide scale so SDSN's interventions try to be tailored based on need but again this can be resource intensive and it would require supporters it would require funding and that's how we try to mobilize those kind of resource mobilization solutions as well when it comes to Malaysia based on the study that we did what we found was first of all you know Dr Ethel you mentioned that students may know their country but they don't know what's going on outside the same can be said of teachers too they know their country they know what sectors Malaysia is strong in but would they know which countries in the world are the biggest tech influencers that kind of thing they do not know themselves so how can then we expect the children to know these things so the teachers require quite a bit of capacity building themselves the second thing is ESD elements in the curriculum it's there but even at the cognitive learning domain it is not comprehensive enough meaning yes the knowledge is there that critical thinking element that knowledge is trying to draw out of the students then we do not even have to go beyond that to the social emotional domain those to do with values and attitudes and we do not even need to go to the behavioral domain where students actually relate to a problem and they feel that this is an area they want to build a career in an area that potentially they see a passion in themselves and they want to make a difference in the world in the future so those elements are missing the third observation is that teachers have this conflict between what is their core purpose and what is their KPI so when you ask teachers what when you see your role in the classroom what are some of your objectives so you'll hear things like yes to educate my students and all of that but you also hear things like to get the highest number of A's to meet my deadlines to complete the syllabus so there's this conflict between purpose and KPI so there's that need to reorient teachers to what their true purpose is how they can make a difference in the lives of young people because there are so many young people who are completely disengaged with what's in the curriculum they feel that it's something that does not relate to the realities around them so this goes back to that problem of having a customized solution right so SDSN's intervention is planned in such a way that it's very school based so it's a school whole of school approach that means everyone in the school is involved and the intervention like for example if it's a teacher training program the content has to relate to what's going on in that community of the school so if it's in a rural area that's located by the river how do you incorporate that into your math lessons and your science lessons and your language lessons so those are the kind of interventions that SDSN is currently designing and with the fantastic support of Dr. Hisham and his team at the Ministry of Education we are working together to develop this for Malaysian teachers for now and hopefully be able to scale up this kind of a methodology to our ASEAN colleagues as well. Thanks Karen and we hear this theme right about contextualization agency at the school level at the teacher level which makes Indonesia's Mordeca Belajar concept even more important as a concept to learn from okay so we're going to go one last round before we open up for Q&A so please get your questions ready so you know we've talked about what are the aspirations we've talked about the challenges so now what are kind of some practical tips, next steps things that we can take away from so Dr. Hisham we're two years out right from the end education blueprint and so learning from the implementation of the blueprint's proposed shifts after these 10 years that the blueprint has been around from, can you tell us about the monitoring and evaluation mechanisms that will ensure that ESD implementation will have real impact on learners, on students so what does success look like and how do we evaluate that? When you talk about monitoring and evaluation mechanism the Ministry of Education has a very comprehensive way of monitoring how the system works we have divisions which are responsible to look after this so we have the education inspector doing their works throughout the year, we have also the teacher training center that cater on the teacher training we have curriculum development division where now currently working on the revision of the curriculum so all these divisions have their roles and responsibility to ensure that the policy and the planning implemented as what we aspire the teachers to do we learn our lesson maybe the hard way for the past 10 years in terms of implementation of these all these policies and also all these planning where some of the goals have achieved but somehow or other because of the new development, the change of the education culture in schools and also the impact of the pandemic our direction and our focus are now focusing on our teachers so this is really reflecting what SESN has been doing and the findings actually reflected our focus and we know that we got all the support from our partners not only from the government entities but as well as the corporate and also agencies and as well as international organization so when we are talking about how to ensure that ESD implementation is being monitored so what we working on with SESN for now and then with other partners as well is to look at how we going to tackle issues of our teachers don't worry we are not going to come up with another module or another book but however there are some guidelines or what we are looking at now is actually to come up with a different, I wouldn't say module but a different guidelines a training guidelines to our teachers so it has to start from the teachers so this is more on pedagogical skills of our teachers that we are looking at so with the help of our partners so when they come to us and inquire of what we need for our partners to help the ministry so we know that teacher capacity building is the crucial point at this point where we talk about the development of education especially to impart ESD in the system so you asked us about how the success would look like so I would imagine that our teachers would be more confident and more versatile in their teaching to incorporate all these elements if not ESD but other elements in the teaching which includes the values the 21st century skills which are also part of the ESD components so all these skills that the teachers need to adapt and deliver to their students need help of course so the ministry cannot do this alone the collaboration we are open up with a lot of collaboration now and we engage with a lot of agencies to work on this so as ESD is one of them that work very closely with us now to work on this so focus on teachers and if we get it right at the teacher level it's going to enable so many things Dr. Ethel you talked about financing just now and so when we think about there are different levels of development across ASEAN and so some countries at a much lower level of development than others so what's your advice for countries in securing the resources especially the financial resources for ESD and transforming education at large and any other thing that you think is a practical thing that people need to focus on one of the things I have realized every year when we do the high level steering committee on SDG I had a privilege of reporting the progress of the Asia-Pacific region being a member of the HLSE and Sherpa Group and you know that the Asia-Pacific region is really blessed we have a lot of success stories if I look at all the presentations we have done many of those that were committed by by UNESCO but there are still areas for improvement like you know we have countries always facing challenges of climate change all the calamities, disasters and we keep on addressing these issues there are a lot of teachers who are really marginalized and who needs more attention so if you say in the pandemic we have seen over 3 million perhaps affected not being able to access their classes they don't have computers they don't have you know so we need a lot of things especially when it comes to inclusive ESD and GZ I don't have problems with like you know Sanway University or all the SD SN network they are really performing well in our region most of the countries receive a lot of funding like Cambodia has a lot of funds coming from UNESCO UNICEF almost all cares and then of course like not yet a member but Timor Leste also face a lot of challenges for teacher training, ESD and they receive also some help from UNICEF, UNESCO and the rest we are blessed with all partners in our region we are hosting the Asia Pacific you know regional bodies Indonesia hosting ASEAN Thailand hosting a lot of international organizations with funding so the big thing here is that you know Karen is talking about reaching or decentralization I'm thinking about when we did all our toolkits not all teachers can benefit they don't know the language they don't know English so what I do is to call ministries of education can you translate this in local language I want more Cambodians to study the toolkit and use this in their teaching so it's only partnership like you know okay we can translate this and then we give funding for translation so in many of our works actually are in English so we need to think that in order for us to be inclusive we need to speak at the heart of the local language and bring all of these very beautiful materials, lessons, teaching materials into local languages even if I did training in Indonesia I need to have an interpreter even if I go to Vietnam all teachers I'm training can translate my powerpoint into local language and I hire people who can translate in Laos everywhere the biggest challenge is language we have a lot of resources but teachers not all can speak English in reality I have seen that working all throughout the region so it's important that we do the context that decentralization is good is the best lesson of the pandemic that you know local leaders local government can support teachers and do the context based training and everything and SDG Academy I enrolled purely also in English so how can we have all the four million teachers benefit from this if they're all in English I'm just saying that we need to really improve on English proficiency of teachers to benefit or address the local context as I have evaluated a lot of training programs for the region the teachers could not access our English materials whether it's toolkit, resource book guide or whatever blueprints know they have to be helped and assisted on the local language on the mother tongue I have to post time is up thank you what was your time is up Ibu Ije there's been so many things that Indonesia has done right how was it actually implemented and what were the keys to implementation and what can countries learn from Indonesia's story there are three key things that I want to share that we have seen how the transformation impacted the education number one is program Guru Penggerak Guru Penggerak is like the driving force of teachers who are not appointed as Guru Penggerak but it's announced to all over Indonesia and teachers from all over the places can apply as Guru Penggerak what's the requirement it's just you are motivated and passionate to be teachers and then at national level they do the selection interview and everything and then they are trained for the beginning was very idealistic nine months but now it's reduced into six months and the training is not mainly on classroom practice but translating the socio-emotional learning into the profession and leadership teachers who understand how to lead and then at the end this Guru Penggerak are not meant to be a better teacher but also the future leader in schools as well as in any organizations leading education that's number one I think which work quite well but I think work quite well and we heard testimonies from many Guru Penggerak all over Indonesia because they are not chosen they apply so they show their self-motivation very high self-motivation and number two that I think has impacted the transformation is the emancipated teaching platform that I mentioned earlier the PMM platform Merdeka Mengajar this is this includes self-learning content self-learning content which teacher can just learn themselves and now there has been more than 55,000 available self-content and then teacher communities across the nation content uploaded by teachers now it reach to almost 100,000 content and and also teachers downloaded teaching tools so we also translated different kind of toolkits to be put in the PMM etc. and the last one that I would like to share is the project sorry the Pancasila students profile strengthening project strengthening the word strengthening is the keyword because it highlights the integration of ESD in it because in this project it's not intracurricular but it's co-curricular from 100 accumulation time for intracurricular it's taken 25% for co-curricular dedicated to the project and the project team is directed from the central government there are 7 big topics sustainable lifestyle unity in diversity which is part of our philosophy voice of democracy well-being engineering and technology local wisdom and entrepreneurship this is the picture of the development of ESD directly in the curriculum in all schools in Indonesia amazing so this empowerment piece is so key so all of your experience working with teachers what works? we've heard about the challenges, what works? I believe in teacher if we need to change education we have to build up the quality teacher right and we talk about the teacher and we talk about the capacity building program for teacher it's not only about teacher training but what we believe now how can we create the teacher learning journey or set up like a learning pathway of teachers and the best place that teacher should learn is their own classroom back to their own classroom and learn about their learners learn how to create the quality lesson that fits to their learner in this sense, teaching profession is learning profession it's a lifelong learning of teachers to learn how to adapt themselves to the new topic to the new context of education of learners and within this paradigm I think the key is we have to respect teachers as a pedagogical thinker because they have their own pedagogical knowledge when they work we should not leave them work alone we have to set up like a learning culture in the school up until now there are many mechanisms that promote concept of teacher learning together what I have done in the school we do in the three mechanisms the first one is lesson 30 in Japanese we call Jukio-kenkyu teachers work as a body to develop the lesson and consult each other and allow their body to observe the class and follow up what happened in the real context when the lesson implement in the real classroom the second mechanism is the PLC the community of the teacher to share the learning in daily life in their own community and the third one is open classroom activity allow people to come to their own classroom and observe what happened in the real context of the learning to me I think the key is how can we build up like a learning community in the school because it creates the new learning culture in the school and if we have got the strong learning culture in the school teachers can learn new things and can be the teacher resilience when we have got the new agenda like ESD GZ they can do that with friends they work together with friends and work in the real classroom that they have to work with to me ESD is not the thing that we have to adopt from others we have to build up based on their own context based on their own classroom that's what the key that I try to do in the future development program now yeah amazing when I was a teacher the most inspiring and effective form of me learning something new was seeing my friends who are doing new and exciting things in their classrooms fantastic so Karen let's have the last question for you before we open up for Q&A so how do people partner with SDSN how do we tap into the machinery or the network the solutions that SDSN wants to promote SDSN is really all about partnership and I really like what Ibu you said earlier about including everyone to work together I think that is truly the philosophy of SDSN the key word in SDSN is sustainable development solutions one key word solutions we always have to find solutions to problems and the final word network we are a network and it's truly a global network I have colleagues here from SDSN Thailand and other countries around the region so we have these country chapters around the world and it's really through our network that we actually met recently many of us met at UNESCO conference in Bali and now we are working together and hopefully this partnership will continue so our philosophy is based on that number two we have something called the SDG Academy and this is really a learning platform with the highest quality courses on various aspects of sustainable development virtually every aspect that you can think of teachers can even tap into this or any person who is interested in sustainable development can tap into this resource the courses are completely for free and delivered by the top subject matter experts in the world however as Dr Ethel you rightly pointed out they are mostly in English there are some courses in French or Arabic but it is not extremely inclusive SDSN in partnership with our networks have begun translating some of these courses so it's not dubbed over with a voice but there are subtitles on some of the courses to make it more inclusive and then there is another platform which is our sister division within SDSN called global schools so they really develop a lot of teacher capacity building programs for example they have a program called the global advocates program and sorry global schools advocates so what it does is it selects teachers they have to apply to attend this advocates program and then they already are self motivated they have the passion so they are trained to be a change maker in their school however how do you think that would pan out in our context you have one person who is really passionate wants to make a difference in their school but has to convince so many people including their school leadership including other teachers who are teaching different subjects it's not really working based on our experience it's an excellent program but you don't have that whole of school approach and I like to tell this story which is related we have a friend you know him he was a teacher in an indigenous school and he felt that his students were not able to engage with any of the content so he taught it differently he took them outside to under the tree by the river he conducted lessons there he incorporated music and he found that they began to they were starting to learn stuff and his school leader would ask him why are you doing this it's not your KPI you're not required to do this he said but they are benefitting so I'll do it do what you want but just make sure you finish the syllabus so what happened what happened he got transferred no not because of that but eventually he got transferred and all of that stopped and those kids stopped benefitting from that extra intervention so you can be an advocate but unless you have the support of your partners and your crucial stakeholders it cannot be sustainable thanks Karen and on that note really iterating the importance of why we need to work together towards these objectives that we have we're going to open up for a quick Q&A now so where are the questions who has a question from the floor for our panelists education makes the people easy to lead but difficult to drive easy to govern but impossible to enslave Peter Broham now the difficult part of teaching is that the student must be willing to learn when the teacher is ready the student will appear and the illiterate of the 21st century are those who cannot learn, unlearn and relearn and this is a problem that I face I'm trying to teach something new and I got mountains of barrier and obstacles I'm facing because a baby in a womb they learn without decision they're passionate, they're willing to learn and that's how Elon Musk got a 14 years old boy who is already a software engineer in his space X because in the womb you have no prejudice you're open and Tony Buzan says that the brain capacity of the baby grow, multiply and expand and store data as you give them the stimulation that's all the secret is and let me just give you one example in 2019, 9 of March I met Professor Maslina Daruth she is a professor of mathematics UKM, she is the president of the Malaysian Math Society, she is the vice president of the Arts and Math Society I asked her how do you get so passionate about math she said my mother, I said how is your mother he said when I was in the womb my mother did a lot of mental calculation and that's it, so the baby's brain is stimulated by the stimulant from outside so if it's music, it's music if it's maths, it's maths but if you can expose a baby to a wide variety of data information sound, voice, vocabulary they'll be far ahead, after they are born they learn, like this Elon Musk baby a 14 years old boy so that's the key of education the greatest obstacle to education is prejudice, biasness, opinion so if you want to learn I learned how to survive all these years because I learned about nutrition I learned about living I'm 71 years old, I've never been sick because I learned when I was in 1972, I learned about society and nutrition of food and society by Magnus Byte and that's how he's been staying with me so it's self learning but the mother must cultivate their interest passion, give direction then you'll be everything be okay I learned how to survive all these years not because of education but because I learned on my own back to you thank you sir thank you for that comment are there any other questions from the floor I'm from the construction industry and therefore we are the people that engage the product of an education system now if we look at Malaysia for all, nearly all industries we're in this very curious situation where nearly all industries don't have enough people not enough workers and yet we're also told that 200,000 graduates are unemployed and yet depending who you listen to between 2 to 4 million people foreigners, legal or illegal are somehow gainfully employed so it's a very curious situation how with this 4.7 with these new things it's going to help the future somehow where we are at least for Malaysia at least it's because of the things that we've been doing or not been doing for the last 10-15 years so how are you going to influence the policy makers maybe there's a policy maker here that they will be matching between the supply and demand and sometimes when we deal with the government about trying to get local workers we can't get foreign workers we can't get this is something has to do about the big C which Jeff said this morning so how are we going to deal with this for the longer term right because if I look at the Malaysia plan the mother of all planning tools I think we're only measuring inputs we're not measuring outputs really the biggest takeaway from the last 12 Malaysia plan is how many billions are going to spend right and we know somewhere along the way and at the midterm review and then the frenzy of spending in the fifth year of the Malaysia plan because you will be measured by whether you finish your budget or not if you don't finish your budget you're not a good government servant to hell with the output so if you go back extrapolate backwards to the Rancangan Malaysia 11 or 10 9 or even 8 to Ton Mahade 20 years 2 trillion ringgit we're still talking about the same thing so we can't throw resources in the future like this so I think for all the things that we say here measurement of output is very very critical if that doesn't happen we're just spending time talking about it and nothing will happen nothing will change alright and we have one more question down here maybe we take the question first and then we will ask the panel to open up but I guess if I could summarize some part of that question is when we think about ESD, changes in education is that actually going to meet the industry demands what's the importance of ESD in relation in relation to that and how do we know that we're actually outputting things that are going to to have a practical application thank you I'm Gusti Ansarib from Indonesia in Pondtiana in Buray University this is a very interesting panel I learned a lot but we need to train education to contribute to sustainable development one important aspect is collaboration and ethical issues right so it's cool, in particular for example I know in Indonesia the parents would like to have children to have high rank high ranking system number one, ranking two so this is the best student so this means that it's difficult for the children to collaborate they must compete instead of sharing until go to university they cannot work together yeah how do you resolve this to change this not only students and teachers but also the parents aspect and then the last one is about what Datu Jepri mentioned about ethical it's very important to have how to implement our ethical maybe regional universal how to include this because this is not easy maybe easy to mention to write it down but when you come to the implementation it's very hard that's my question thank you very much all right great question so who from the panel wants to take it so we have one question on what does ESD have anything to do with industry industry needs is focusing on ESD actually going to help us meet the needs of industry when we think about some of these key things that are actually a big part of ESD collaboration ethical issues how do we actually develop that when we don't have the paradigm shift yet so who wants to take please three questions so it's hard for me to process the first one is on actually on early childhood care education and development ECCD so we know for example that at up to age 7 child is happening it's very important all the values the knowledge the skills behavior it should be in the foundational years that's why we have adapted in the region prioritizing that each and every member states should have a very good ECCD that we promote that every kid will be 5 years old should be in school that there should be a support to ECCD because this is where they get all the information about how to use the skills and yes that's what from the experience of professor from his own experience and others that you know these will all go back to your early childhood whether it will be a very good successful or you know don't want to share your notes to classmates so these are all in the foundational years so we are now working on the asian ECCD quality standards we did a mapping of and now still working on the quality standards so that all countries in the region will have more or less comparative quality for pre primary education so it's a work in progress and we have a center for early childhood care and education which is based in Indonesia Simeo Chachep and we also have in Singapore INEC so hosting the so we have a lot of good good organizations working on ECCD and basically teachers would have the benefit ECCD teachers would have the benefit of really working on the basic you know lessons for kids play school but the values are there so that we can have a better generation the second question is on the I mean the future of work there's another group working on that the future of work and you know maybe we need to see what is the link on supply and demand we have ASEAN mutual recognition agreements already in different professions and we are targeting that in all we can do that and the Indonesian context what's the highlight collaboration ethical issues actually within the country this is what is done through the Merdeka Blajar the collaboration and that's why there is the PMM platform Merdeka Mengajar where teacher collaborates in different ways and collaborating with ASEAN of course we work together very closely in many aspect and because I'm in the national commission for UNESCO we try to facilitate lots of dialogues to meet the minds of awareness that we need to keep the balance of life through ESD program it's not necessarily giving ESD as it is but I always use the metaphor of ESD as the herbs of education Hello I'm Rosayne I'm just interested with what Karen says about pulling up from the research you mentioned about best practices I know it's not easy to give a very definite answer to this but what are the best practices in terms of measuring the effectiveness of ESD thank you Hello good afternoon I am an educator from the Philippines all of us have experienced during the strict lockdown that we were stuck all of us were stuck in our own house my question is after we have experienced this pandemic have you reconsidered to redesign the ESD engine said to closely integrate and highly involve the household and the local environment and adjust the school great question and we have one last one at the top if we can run the mic up very quickly I'm an academician from University of Malaysia I'm very interested in talking about all these SDGs that encompassed every society but we ever thought of those who are undocumented especially in the case of Sabah we have so many cases of undocumented children in recent education thank you really good questions we'll take the last one I'm Ravi when you talk about education there are several levels of complexities firstly of course when you look at education the first level will be political philosophy of the country the second level will be political will policies of the country and of course what we are discussing today is global trend on sustainable development and there's a lot of discussion today on contextualizing this now how do you reconcile especially for countries like Malaysia for example I think we can share that with Indonesia as well where we have constitution and its own train of educational philosophy and then you've got political will or rather the political will of the day or politics of the day and they have their own policies education policies and thirdly of course is global trend where we talk about sustainable development and particularly I think Ibu mentioned about 17,000 island and contextualizing as sustainable development within the region and so on what not how do you reconcile that when when you talk about education there must be a clear system processes involved how do you reconcile that and what kind of leverage in terms of breadth and depth that is allowed in contextualizing education policies thank you we want to do the question on measuring best practices of measuring first thank you that's for me right okay I think your question one is very much related to monitoring and evaluation of impact which relates also to the to the comment from the gentleman at the back there it was really to do about with monitoring impact of any kind of intervention not just inputs but what are not just the outputs but what are the outcomes and the impact of the intervention so I think when it comes to education and with ESD interventions when we talk about sharing best practices I think we look at the context of that intervention so we do have resources where we've compiled success stories from around the world and it really depends on the context so where what was the starting point of that particular school or that teacher and what was the intervention and what was the outcome of that so with ESD interventions we have seen things like kids being better engaged at school kids so it's about what is your measure of success what is the successful student to you so if let's say the teacher's objective was to get the child to be more outspoken did that ESD intervention enable that so those are the kind of best practices that we compile the measure that indicator of success is to be determined by the person who is conducting the intervention depending on what it is I hope that answers the question but it's extremely important to measure so if a school if the starting point were someone who could not kids who could not even read or write then what is their measure of success say the ability to read and write what is the intervention and then measure before and after so we compile success stories like that and we share it widely the notable ones because it could be a lesson that another school or another teacher might be able to adopt and adapt according to their needs thanks Karen who wants to take the question on lessons from the pandemic how do we integrate the household I will try to I think the last three questions that shared the community you talk about learning during and after the pandemic provide the new context of learning because students have to learn at their home and another question is about how to respond to student diversity in case of the minority group or the minority group and the last question is about the context I think when we talk about the design the lesson the key the key point is we have to start with empathize the learner is a key we have to back how can we understand our learners our the context of learning in the pandemic during the pandemic many schools try to do things like a home based learning they work together with parents to pick up some topics that suit to their students and create the flexible lesson that allows parents to help and support their kids and work with teachers to support the learning of the learners and I think in many schools that face the diverse of the student background and also the capability of learning is really need for teachers to understand more about the learner pace when they have to decide the learning activity and when we talk about the contextualizing is a key because we have to empower teachers to develop their own lesson their own learning topic that relate to the ESD and fit to the context of teaching and learning I think the key part is empathize the learners is a key for teaching for ESD in the new paradigm anyone want to take the question on how do we undocumented children children from vulnerable communities how does ESD matter to these kids or how do we address it for these kids thank you very much I would like to answer back and then the Philippines and undocumented in one in one story okay right after the pandemic most of the countries are actually in the circuit breaker mode they have to change so the UN called for the Transforming Education Summit in New York luckily I was there and all the heads of states gathered to commit to transforming education agenda that agenda included everything from you know making education inclusive to transforming education digital transformation ESDNG said all countries have accepted the agenda using the action tracks so the strategy is let the political people commit the leaders and then the ministries of education in the region like in the Asia-Pacific we had the meeting of education ministers and let them commit again and then who will work at the ground level the planning directors everybody will work on delivering all the commitments so whatever your your vision your agenda political agenda and everything all of them all countries should commit to the transforming education agenda and deliver benefiting from the experiences of the pandemic and all of these this is really a work in progress so next month I think there will be another political forum to report what happened after the meeting last year so it's very good that the UN led that and the leaders our leaders were there and then ministers of education met and now all of us are working hard including you thank you all right so I think that's all the time that we have now we have had a very very rich panel this afternoon and you know I think some of the things there's many many many things but some things that would stand out is really how do we have the political will but also the shift in paradigm across society towards education for sustainable development teachers are key how do we invest in teachers and not just invest with the skills and knowledge of ESD but with the empowerment to meet the context and needs of their students which are very very diverse so how do we empower the system at large so with that can we just give a big round of applause to our amazing panelists and a round of applause to yourselves as well for being with us and asking such rich questions so thank you so much everybody