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You can now follow me on all my social media platforms to find out who my latest guest will be and don't forget to click the subscribe button and the notifications bell so you are notified for when my next podcast goes live. This is a kind of stuff that I love to talk about and get on because there is motivation at the end of the pain and that's what it's about but first and foremost how are we brother? We are good, we are good man. Appreciate you for getting me out here and yeah definitely a lot of pain, a lot of chaos that I left behind but very thankful as we are looking past everything now it's just all positivity so amen amen. Before we get into everything though I always like to go back to the start with my guests get about understanding about you, where you grew up and how it all began. Sure. So I grew up in LA, east side of LA which is Los Angeles we call it the San Gabriel Valley. It's a really really predominantly Asian now when I was growing up it was about 50-50 now it's like 80-20, the other half was Hispanic so we grew up right alongside the Mexicans, Salvadorians, Hispanic people and yeah it was very poverty stricken at that time I grew up in some project housing I don't know if you guys have that out there in Scotland but they call them the flats out there or whatever right so yeah same thing, government funded housing, gangs, drugs, violence everywhere and we were living me, my brother, my mom and my father typical traditional Chinese household father was dictator, ran everything but at the same time mother was very submissive, very peaceful first one to get out of the bed, first one to get inside of the bed as well before he came back so just very submissive and my father was a drunk, he was an alcoholic beat on me, beat on my brother, beat on my mom so he had a lot of inner demons as well at that time we didn't recognize but yeah so we grew up in that type of environment pushed me to kind of join gangs at a very early age so I was 12 years old when I joined my first gang what were you like at school? bad, I was a knucklehead and I was fighting with people stealing, you know, ditching, just doing a lot of bad stuff even at the age of 12 years old who forced you into the gang, your dad? my dad was yeah, I would say he was a gang member he actually wasn't a gang member but he was very like a street guy because we're Chinese but he's born in Korea due to my grandparents fleeing the war in China at that time it was a communist regime everybody was just running everywhere to get out and they were erasing their history before their eyes but my father was in Korea was a fighter he had always been fighting on the streets and they kind of faced a little bit of oppression over there too being that they're Chinese but living in Korea so yeah he fought a lot too, he fought a lot how many, is it Chinese gangs? or was that a mixed deal with early gangs? how many gangs? because you said it was 50-50 then so how mixed was that? it was pretty mixed we had a lot of different gangs we had Chinese gangs, we had Vietnamese gangs in general we had a lot of different Asian gangs and then we had predominantly Hispanic they dominated, they've been there since some of them since the 30s and 40s in that area so we just started pushing in there I would say mid to late 80s and then in my era it was about late 90s, early 2000s at that time there was already some gangs that had been established like my gang when did you start getting into trouble? at the age of 10 I started getting into trouble I was fighting and stuff I did stuff like when I was 7, 8 years old still in here and there, nothing too violent the violence started coming around 10, 11, 12 years old I was extremely violent I had already stabbed somebody I beat somebody up, I mean I've done a lot of stuff and at 12 I was already kind of like shooting at people how many men was there in that scouting? a lot, at that time we had different, so it's an umbrella and then there's different clicks as we call them or different sides so easily, easily in that time like anywhere from like 800 to 1000 members for sure who was the top boy? the top guy there was different factions with different what we call heads so yeah, there was a lot of people it's usually named by their so the sides are named by the heads so I'm from ocean side so there's like ocean, a guy named ocean there's sunny, there's stuff like that so it just depends on which side you're at which area you're at that was the head at that time how old were these people running these gangs? it depended I mean some of them were 30's some of them were late 20's I mean it was around mid 20's so I would say late to mid 30's what does it take to get in? one of these gangs? for that you had to do like a put on we call it an initiation so they would beat you up like similar to a lot of LA gangs if you say put on, they understand that they beat you up for a set amount of time just to test your grit to see if you could fight and if you could handle your own and then the second part of that would be putting in work, which means going out and proving to yourself maybe it would be shooting a rival gang member robbing somebody just doing dirt for the gang elevating the gang to a different status what's the gang called? watching yeah why? it's W-A-H-C-H-I-N-G it means actually in Mandarin Chinese youth or like young Chinese if you translate it literally what sort of age group? what's the youngest person who can join these gangs? it ranges I mean we've had people who were like 11, we've had 12 years old I would say around 12 to 15 would be like the average rate average age I'm sorry that would join the gang it's sad as well though that people in their 30s and 40s are telling young kids to shoot and stab to get into gangs like but again that's all you know you tend to see a lot of those kids that come from broken homes or their fathers beating them that's only probably family they felt they had was that your sort of behind it because you were scared of your dad or scared of the beatings all the time where you never really had a family yeah it was more like a pseudo family that I was looking for you see it on the streets you see them driving the nice cars you see the prestige of that the lore of that lifestyle was a big thing when I saw gang members just a little bit older than me you know wads of cash and you're coming from a place where you don't make money you know your parents don't make money they're making more money than your parents you know that really had such a big pool and like it attracted me to that life and then on top of that they had respect you know everywhere they drove people were like like noticed them they stuck out and yeah in my early on I was like very quick to pick that up and realize that I don't want to be going home getting beat up by my dad you know going home to this family that's like broken you know I'd rather be outside on the streets so every time I try to stay away from home you know but of course being 12 years old you still have to come home you know every night and the gang was kind of an outlet for me to run away from the family basically and go to that family you know this new family what was it like hurting someone for the first time it was honestly at first it was kind of scary you know you feel like dang like you know subconsciously that you shouldn't be doing this but there was also honestly an excitement that came with it it was as if I could kind of release my stress as well you know because I was getting hurt so much and you know my first fight for example you know you get tense you feel that feeling of like jittery feeling but after a while you know you start to win and then you start to get notoriety you know people start to notice you man you're fighting this guy could fight good so it went from you know at first to being really scared and then you start to embrace it you really start to like it and you start to recognize like I learned early on that violence kind of is almost like a tool and a language you know like everyone it's a universal language if you're violent people kind of understand like oh this guy means business leave him alone you know so I always kind of focused on being the most violent person so that I didn't have to deal with like really speaking to people and having to communicate with them you know I would just be like if you don't listen to what I say I'm going to just communicate in this way violently you know so it was pretty bad so to join a biker gang it's like a prospect you've got to do a lot of sharing the gang so that's the same tools that you have to do to get into a gang in LA yeah there's definitely levels to it people don't just let you walk in and share all of their secrets because if you're somebody who's an informant or a snitch or a rat as they say they could be sharing the wrong information to the wrong person so they really do put you through this test you know and they teach you the rules and regulations you know my OG's my big homies my leaders taught us actually very meticulously what is allowed, what's not allowed you know it's just a whole different ecosystem almost like the mafia? I would say yeah yeah we were very organized people we're known as the Chinese triads you know in our areas people are like oh these watching guys they're different they're not just like a regular street gang it was almost like a hybrid we had the street aspect but we also had the business aspect as well in the world the triads always seem to be never let anybody else in other gangs it's all multi-cultural but the triads seem to have been their own like was there any white people black people inside this gang? it was very rare to have them and if they did they would at least have to be someone we've known from like early on like Pampers as we say growing up as kids but yeah it was very rare it was very rare it was mainly if you're Chinese I mean the gang is called Chinese youth 90% of the time you have to be a young Chinese person but I mean I've seen it I'll be honest I've seen people who were like white in the gang and I've seen like different race like Vietnamese people maybe some Japanese people but for the most part majority yes it was always Chinese very exclusive as well what was it like when you go into the gang? it was pretty pretty crazy at first you know they really took care of us and honestly they never stopped taking care of us you know but when I had gotten my first money you know making my money then showing me how to use a gun things like that at that time I was thinking that these were really good things because they're teaching you protection they're giving you financial stability they're giving you an income almost and yeah it was really really good in the beginning but then of course with the prison and things like that you start to kind of recognize that you lose yourself and the families are torn apart because of gangs you know so what age did you learn how to use the gun? 12 very very quickly at that time I think I mean America in general is known for having guns and stuff like that so yeah I started to learn like a month into into it and on my third month I caught my first case as they say and I was arrested you know and from there I did four years you know in California youth authority now youth authority is different than like regular juvenile hall you have to be admitted into the youth authority it's almost like a mental hospital it's an insane asylum if you will for like the worst of the worst worst juvenile offenders what was that feeling? crazy yeah that place you're around like man you're around like anyone from 12 all the way up to like 18 years old and some people even 25 they'll have juvenile murder and life in there but um yeah my first night there I was like threatened to be stabbed I mean I've seen people get raped I've seen these are kids doing this to other kids I've seen kids get stabbed in the neck kids get strangled big old brawls fights I mean the fights was everyday but just a lot of crazy things like YA California youth authority was worst in prison because you couldn't hide behind like a car as we say behind a race California it's kind of more racial Asians go with the Asians you know blacks with the blacks white with the whites in California youth authority it wasn't really like that yes they went with Asians but if somebody was to fight you and they were another race like you have to defend yourself otherwise they're gonna take you for everything you got and then other people all around you was gonna take you for what you got so you really had to fight every single day you know and that's why I literally learned to fight lost a couple fights won a couple fights but you start to learn you know and you learn how to like just be a monster you know honestly like take everything as disrespect if somebody says something to you two seconds you take off on them I mean if you don't then everybody looks at you like you're a punk and a bitch and stuff like that so what did you get charged with? I got charged originally with robbery and kidnapping but they dumbed it down luckily to dissuading a witness for the benefit of a gang so kind of like witness intimidation if you will and yeah they gave me four years for that our gang was already on like the FBI list you know they were already trying to have gang injunctions on us they were trying to re-co us I'm not sure if you know what re-co I'm not fair to understand can you explain the re-co though? for people who don't know? it's a federal indictment where they go after you because you're so big you're this conglomerate that's making money and you just have your hand in everything and they come specifically for you they have operations, homeland security FBI, CIA they all work together to come and like basically knock you off and really attack that one gang organization like they did the mafia you know and they it's all federal stuff a lot of it is federal also state stuff but mostly federal so you're 12 years old at that time? yeah what's your mom saying when you're that quiet? you know they were shocked because they didn't know I was gang-banging you know I was always bringing a change of clothes everywhere that I went and they asked my mom I remember you know what was your son do you remember what your son was wearing which Johnny was wearing when he went out and they're like oh yeah you know blue jeans, grey sweater this episode is sponsored by fire away pizza the fastest growing pizza company in the UK with over 150 stores with their fresh quality ingredients and unique pizzas they will have you coming back for more use code james20 for 20% off he said no he was wearing red and black flannel you know baggy black pants so red and black is our gang colors and you know courtes shoes all the LA people know that courtesies are like the gang-banging shoe back then you know LA people we like to be a little loud we like to be a little flashy you know so my mom was kind of shocked like your son is potentially no he's not potentially he's in a gang and you guys have to prepare for that you know so when I got caught that's when my mom actually found out all of the dirt that I was doing what I was being charged with I mean I remember seeing her face even in court like she was shocked she was just like you know how like he's a monster you know how I didn't raise a kid like this she didn't know anything she didn't know anything what was it like the first day walking in looking the yos back then like were you scared absolutely you know I was scared because they were kind of prepared I was on the phone with people and they were already kind of telling us people in the tank as well in the court were like explaining to us that hey this is probably going to be a serious thing kidnapping is a very big thing in the states so yeah people do a long time so when I heard that you know at 12 you're going to go to this place that's crazy and you know you might be doing a very long time I was kind of like scared you know but at the same time it was weird it was an opportunity for me to like rise like I saw that as a kid too like if I just take the rap which I did then because there was like six of us involved you know it wasn't just one person so I was like I'll take the rap because I'm the youngest now I didn't think honestly I would do a lot of time I thought maybe I would do like two years a year but they ended up giving me four so that's when I was like really shocked you know and they give you a parole date you don't have to do all four but I didn't understand unbeknownst to me when you go to YA you're going to fight so that means you're going to catch these level B's which is write ups you know and when you do these level B's the more you do them and you're going to catch them every day it literally makes you max out your time which means yeah they give you a date to go home let's say in two years but most people don't make that most people if they say four years you're doing four years probably even more just depending on how much work you put in so I had to do the full four years did you have to grow up fast then when you had to be 12 years old my son is 13 fuck me but if he swears I go crazy do you know what I'm saying like it's crazy to think just a young boy innocent to then be showing that life of willing to kill willing to die willing to do four year in prison for what so your idea was take the blame rise through the ranks not snatched did you get offered a deal at such a young age I was on no deal on the table no of course of course they offered a deal you know because they wanted me to you know rat out snatched on the big ones yeah and I was like I'm not doing that you know and um yeah it was it was crazy you know being 12 yes you had to grow up fast you know I was more afraid I'll be honest of me dying like if I was to snitch I knew I was gonna die like they're gonna let me out and then these people are known for like shooting people so I'm like I rather not die like I rather so I understood the fear that was ingrained in me which kind of brought loyalty you know based off of the fear but at the end of the day I really also didn't want to go out like that like I had finally felt like I found hope as twisted as as that sounds I found hope in this type of lifestyle and I was like you know they love me you know this is my family so I don't want to like it was like 5050 like I don't want to die I don't think they'll kill me and as long as I play my cards right which is take the blame take the fault then I just saw the positive and everything little did I know I didn't calculate the mental stress and like emotional instability that it would cause me like PTSD and all this crazy stuff that would come out of that but I just saw it as very like I only see the beginning and the end of it I didn't really think anything through and I was I mean I was 12 I don't think I could I was very impulsive you know so what's the worst thing you seen were you in that present at 12 when at 12 I'd seen the first time heard and seen people getting turned out which means getting raped and that was like crazy that was something that you won't forget you know and then I've seen people getting stabbed like like all kinds of ways like they make you know shanks they make raises all kinds of stuff so I had seen that and that's something really like traumatic obviously for a 12 year old but to see the youth doing it to other youth where I was at was Nellis why which is pretty one of the it's very well known they closed it down thank God but it was very known it was known well known for the violence honestly I've even seen correctional officers like raping the kids too and that was crazy you know the very people that they're supposed to watch over us and maintain order we're doing crazy stuff making us fight each other I mean all kinds of stuff it was crazy so the present officers were just as bad I would say probably worse what you're thinking them and you're seeing present officers rape young kids honestly that's the one thing that when I went in there you get laced up which means you know it's a slang where they come and they tell you the rules and somebody who's been in there tells you the rules and regulations and the first thing they taught me was forget about your family why would you say something like it to a 12 year old you know forget about your family you're never going home you know this type of lifestyle like if we get out on the streets we're going to come right back in this is what I was told as a kid so when I thought about that I'm like wow this is um yeah it was you just had to prepare mentally to like be a monster almost you know I felt like I cultivated that mindset at a very young age to just not care about anybody else and just like self-preservation to the fullest how did you survive that because you're the youngest there so how do you survive that what do you feel as if you had to do more damage to try and prove a point or how does it work at such a young age how was your method of thinking yeah it was just like no matter what happens like don't you can't let them you know take advantage of you in any way physically emotionally mentally so everyone was always on high like I felt like I probably had high blood pressure even at that age because everything around you like it just it like you just act so nothing you don't you don't give yourself time to think you have to react off of everything if you feel disrespected um you take off which means you just punch them it doesn't matter what it is punch them stab them do whatever you have to establish that I'm not going to take anything from you if you say anything to me um and I feel it just a little bit we're going to have a problem we're going to fight we're going to do that and really believe it or not the more you act like that the more crazy you act people start to respect that and be like okay this guy is not going to take anything from us we can't just take his food we can't just take his commas or we can't take his clothes so we just got to kind of leave him alone so you did have to have that mindset of like that trigger you know like hairpin trigger mindset how did so seeing you're doing that then going through the ranks did you have other gang members in prison with you mm-hmm how many of yous there was a few of us from my from my neighborhood as well did that make it easier it did it yeah um luckily you know all throughout the the california system people know this you know watching um ours us especially we were all throughout the area you know all the blacks know us that's I would say that's the the bell that rings the loudest is is when you go out there is is watching you know um so yeah it did make it a lot easier but still it also kind of made it harder in some some instances because um you know you also have the other enemies you have the opposition and they are also like hating on us too right so um they were gang banging on us as well as a lot of gang banging you know your side my side fighting each other um every everybody who's a rival gang member we'd have to fight them basically so if it was a new person you're getting new people every day so you'd have to fight them every single day now this was a youth party it was just fighting all day um and then when you get to prison it's different it's I had to really learn how to program as they say because when I went to prison now it's a whole shift it's a it's a culture shock almost you don't the same guy that you fought in why the same guy that shot at your friend or you shot at their friend maybe even murdered their brother whoever they now have to be like buddy buddy with you because of it's a race now so it's race against race we have different cars you know like vehicle cars so there's the black car the Asian car or the other car as they say and you have to now click up it really is a race war and there isn't one-on-one fighting in prison where it's like oh you have a problem with me and you're black and I'm Asian no we're all gonna fight all blacks against all Asians it's gonna be like that so it was very different it was more of a numbers game now as you become an adult and older and you go to these state penitentiaries that's that that was something that was really hard for me to grasp I would say the first year to like two years because my mindset was the YA mindset I had to like kind of tone it down a little bit because if you were in a rival gang we'd have to fight so I went from that environment to like okay now he's in a rival gang but wait I gotta step on the brakes we gotta watch each other's back it's like it doesn't make sense you know so did you get moved from the four-year sentence to an adult prison or did you finish the four in the same place yeah so from after I finished my four years in prison I got out and caught my second case so I got home about 60 70 so two months in a week and what was it feeling like getting out did you feel as if you're down just straight did you feel as if you were an adult right when I got out I'll be honest I felt a little bit of like a sense of accomplishment because I'm like damn I made it out and everyone knows when you go to the why like why people are like oh this guy's gangster because he went to like the top of the top it's like university for criminals almost you know so when I walked out I did have a little bit of a puffed up chest but that made me arrogant and very reckless because of that and on top of that you're crazy so like you're doing much more crazy things that normal people aren't really used to you know but you're living in that environment so it's very normal for you so you rise very quickly and people start to recognize who you actually are so that's why I couldn't even stay out for more than two months because my mom was reckless I was crazy so um yeah I did feel a sense it was a mixture of emotions but like happy but also crazy but also like very arrogant so this is like all together did you feel untouchable yes 100% I felt untouchable and um and that's why I did what I did which was my second case is the first case a felony uh first case well even at that age at that age yes of course of course but three felonies and then life so that's that's after you um after 18 right a lot of it doesn't count yeah so a lot of these um you know felt juvenile felonies unless you try try it as an adult most of it can get sealed you know I'm not necessarily expunged but sealed because you're you're a juvenile I don't know how it is out here in UK or wherever but in the states that happens but I didn't even make it to that 67 days I get locked up for a shooting a freeway shooting car to car shooting and they charge me with two counts of assault with deadly weapon because there was people in the car so at first it was attempted murder obviously I pled out so that's when I was like okay I admit give me whatever time they gave me 10 years 85% so what that means is I have to do a mandatory minimum of 85% of those 10 years depending on my behavior in prison I either do it all in prison or I get out and parole after eight years and some change which is what happened with me how many people were in the car that I remember there was two they claim there was three but I remember only two people what was that feeling when you're driving and shooting at the same time it was pretty crazy because when I that was almost an everyday thing that was happening in the San Gabriel Valley these freeway shootings because you know you're driving you look over and you see the rival gang member and it and it's on site which means you see them they had shot at your friends you had shot at their friends so nine times out of ten especially Asian gangs in my area they're all carrying guns they're all packing so yeah I was carrying two and I saw them and it was just again instinct like oh that's them I recognize who they are boom boom boom and start shooting and it was really like almost a natural thing for us you know because you see that happening you hear about this happening and you know but for me it was pretty normal actually as crazy as that sounds how did you get caught so somebody behind I guess caught my license plate number and basically reported they sent out a warrant for my arrest had to go on the run a little bit but yeah I got caught eventually shooting from a car that was registered to you yeah that's fucking crazy I know that's what I'm saying that's how exactly that's how impulsive we were as kids you know what I mean it wasn't really it wasn't registered to me but it was registered someone in my family you know which was my dad and yeah I was bad it was stupid nonetheless is that why you pleaded to it straight away and it mitted your goat yeah well did they try and charge your dad because that's what they do here whoever's the car registered to if I pick someone up and I've got 10 kilo of coke they're in the car with it but if they get pulled over it's me it gets charged because it's in my fucking property of course so he actually had a warrant for his arrest your dad and he went and it was like what the and then I was like fuck so after that we had to make like a little bit of a decision and kinda basically went in but yeah that was crazy how old were you then 17 I was 16 and some change almost 17 what you find Kim when you get 10 stretch honestly I was relieved because they were giving me like crazy numbers at first you know and I didn't now I know it was like a lot of them like bluff you know like oh I'm gonna give you you know 37 years or whatever they try to charge me first with like you know 19 years for this case and then 10 for this it was like adding up to like a crazy number so when you hear that like your heart sinks you know and you're like dang I didn't even like shoot nobody like I didn't even hit anybody technically no one got injured but doesn't matter you know they were like the attempted is what matters so I was just being told people all in my ear older homies you know I had a PD at that time a public defender and which I know now I just wanted to get the court you know case done he said if you get 15 years you should take the deal you know it's a really good deal you know you shot at two people and you're only getting 15 years like that should and you're from YA so that means they're gonna pull that up and be like look at him he's mentally unstable his Rico history with the gang I mean you're gonna lose and I'm like dang so if they give you any deal take it so at first actually gave me a deal I think it was like 18 you know and I was like nah hell nah I'm not doing that you know I'm gonna get out when I'm in my 30s you know I'm not cool with that but then they dropped it down to 12 and then I was like I started contemplating around 12 and then the next day they came back with 10 and I said shoot it just give it to me you know and signed and did what I did and I was shipped off to prison what prison did you go to I first went to Lancaster State prison so there's a receptionary period where you do about 90 days three months in prison they put you in this place where it's called reception and they kind of hold you there see how you're gonna interact they're figuring out where to place you and from there I was shipped out to Ironwood State prison yeah what you're thinking then still a kid 16 years old 10 years in an adult prison yeah is that a felony charge then yes yes two counts two counts two strikes so two strikes straight away one more it's life that's it yeah 16 yeah and it was crazy you know it was I really I'll be honest I thought I was gonna die in prison just because I'm like there's a saying that they'll strike you off for spitting on the street you know something as small as spitting on the street obviously that's not true but it's basically you're living your whole life walking on eggshells type of stuff you know so I was just prepared to kind of live in there you know for the rest of my life or or even die in there you know so again that YA mentality came out of me like well you're not gonna make it out nobody gives a shit about you so just live the way that you want to live you know if you want to stab people in there you want to hurt people I mean this is what you signed up for you have nothing else to stand for you know no one's gonna pity you're gonna cry who's coming for you nobody's coming for you you know you just have to handle your own you know and I learned that at a very young age to 16 17 I was able to grasp that concept you know what's your mum saying at that point did you totally block off your feelings and emotions with family yeah so you wouldn't affect you but again it's your mother same as myself when I was doing shit it's the pain and the misery and the trauma that you caused them and for what right right you know my mom was we never really spoke believe it or not she was always siding with my dad so always had a very big heart of resentment she was terrified of him yeah and yeah so she she just we didn't really speak she would tell me things like you know I'm sorry you know that that hits you and I'm like mom like I would not allow her to like get into the core of my heart because I knew that that was a sign of weakness you can't be crying in prison you know people are gonna see that and there's a lot of predators in there so I would just like it would be points where I wouldn't even visit my mom and this is wrong but I would you know she would drive about two two and a half hours to get to where I was at and there's times where like I wouldn't want to hear her speaking about you know the past and like how wrong she did me in this because I would I would then get emotional so there's times where I would reject her visits and stuff like that you know it was very hard now that I think about it to do that to my own mom you know but she tried she tried to you know she was Buddhist so she would give me like little chants and stuff like that you know we're traditionally were raised Buddhist most Chinese households but yeah she she just really like try to lead me correctly in there spiritually you know giving me these Buddhist chants prayers and stuff like that and um yeah yeah what was it like in the adult prison how did you get through it again was it did you have gang members in with you yes yes yes every yard that I went to thankfully I think was a blessing we had homies people from my neighborhood different sides different factions but same umbrella same gang you know so uh it was it was good actually they they welcomed me in um and I started to believe it or not really meet a lot of good people in prison I met I thought it was going to be all crazy which it is but there were actually a lot of people who were mature there were people who were very disciplined believe it or not and California prisons are very respectful uh there ran almost very militant where if you step behind somebody you say excuse me you know things like that so I was actually taught to clean myself I had a lot of like physical endurance because you're doing calisthenics burpees gotta be very innovative about the way you work because they're not giving prisoners barbells and you know dumbbells will kill each other so you have to like find out ways to do burpees and you know upside down push-ups and so so you my workout routine my regimen was really good I mean but I think mentally there was nothing feeding my mental you know um everything was more physical working out you know running um reading I mean was accessible but I mean I didn't even have a GED education at that time I got my GED in prison I did anger management in prison I did counseling in prison they had these programs um but I couldn't get rid of this emptiness that I felt inside of my heart and I thought that emptiness was just something that was the result of being in prison but what really was crazy was when I got out I still had that emptiness and that void inside of my heart How many gangs are in the adult prison? Oh there's it's countless there's so many different gangs I mean there's people from different areas Bay Area, North you know Northern California car I mean there's people from like San Diego which is really southern on the border of you know Tijuana, Mexico basically I mean there's all to number them there's too many What sort of stuff have you seen in adult prison obviously the youth it's a different ball game everybody's trying to make a name for themselves but the adult prison like you say it's more regimented but there's still a lot of bad stuff because in the American Jails what sort of stuff have you seen? Same thing except for everything except for the rapes you know and that was not allowed actually in California because of a lot of problems so thankfully that's some gay shit ain't that bro you know what I mean fucking gay bastards who the fuck does that do you know what I mean so called gang bangers gangsters and they're fucking raping kids like that's sick do you know what I mean obviously that's why their heads are fucked their sexuality's must be all over their place but to do that to any human being is sick man yeah they're taking their manhood and they're soul stripping their soul that's the worst thing you can do anyway listen people kill people we get it but to raping young kids yos great young boys that affects and scars them for life for sure do you know what I mean so we've seen still a lot of violence though in the adult prison for sure for sure there was now race riots I think death was more prominent in prison than it was in YA because you know you can control kids you know I mean you know but I saw the calculated like meticulousness of like murder and planned out things and organization it was pretty crazy you know seeing how people would literally go to war this is not like a joke it's like Spartacus you know it's like they're all going to war and wearing extra layers to prevent stabbings I mean you know putting you know the rules and regulations the books you know just all all kinds of crazy ways and they're really fighting you know for their lives in there so yeah it was pretty crazy when was the first time someone gave you advice because you know in that life you're trying to be a little soldier and do the wrong things to make out as if you ask somebody when really you're losing yourself more but there's never any guidance when was the first time someone says to you look what you're doing is fucking wrong stupid what you're doing it for when was that advice ever come yeah it did it came about two years and to it I had a cellmate older Asian gentleman and you know he was actually a lot older he was like in his 50s almost 60 and he just was really smart you know he was from San Francisco he was from my neighborhood too but like an older generation and he told me he's like you know Johnny you have a lot of anger and I noticed that you overthink a lot like you're an overthinker you know what helped me bro and he's like kind of explaining you know is to get in the books bro you gotta read a little bit and you can kind of release a lot of that mental tension from reading you know your mind can go anywhere bro so if you read it kind of lets you focus a little bit and you get some reps and mentally so that was the first time and I'm glad I took his advice because I used to think reading was like stupid like who would want to sit there and look at a book and like you know read but I noticed that reading allowed me to utilize my imagination it allowed me to kind of take my mind off of all of these intrusive thoughts that were flooding me everyday and just laser focus on the storyline you know what's going on in this book and so I started to kind of find a way of like reading and I noticed that my vocabulary comprehension everything was improving as well he's the same guy that told me that I should take he's like bro it's free you know he's the same guy who was like go and do the GED stuff I mean it's all free in here dental work you know I mean sadly the taxpayers are paying for that so they're like free dental free everything so take advantage of that and I was for the first time able to see like this guy's a lifer meaning he's never gonna get out of prison but he's found a way to thrive even in that prison ecosystem you know so yeah but yeah this is a vessel so even though it can be boxed in they can't box this in you can be anywhere you want listen you don't want to be in a cell but he's obviously found a route of education he can think where he wants to be in life no matter if he's caged you can only use what you've got in those circumstances and he's used them to his potential why did you listen to him I think just because the Asian culture in general we're very we respect our elders so it was just kind of ingrained in us and he had a genuine heart like I could I could feel it you know he wasn't sitting there trying to take advantage of me like I didn't feel like there was any benefit for him telling me to go and get my GED for him telling me to better my life didn't really have any added benefit you know so he kind of taught me like what a OG should be like how someone cares about other people he showed me how to have compassion on others and think for others just a little bit and yeah like you said you know I saw that although he was in prison and he had a worse you know situation than I was he's gonna die in there he was happier than I was he was more peaceful than I was and so I was able to see that there's something different and I was able to notice that his heart his mind can go anywhere it wasn't boxed in physically he was you know but emotionally mentally he was free and that was crazy to me what was he in for he was in there for murder yeah double murder so he killed two people it was a botched robbery basically yeah yeah shit so how you when did you start working within when you in what sorry first of all what's a GED for people who don't know yeah so it's kind of the high school equal it's the equivalent to a high school diploma yeah of course you're not crossing the stage and going to high school it's like a packet you take a test but it's basically the equivalent to a high school diploma so did you start wanting to change while in the adult prison doing a 10 yeah I would say I was searching he piqued my interest but I still had that 50-50 heart if you will half of my heart was like nah I can't look weak I can't really like be all good he too sure I had to walk that fine line both sides of the fence if you will because I knew that people would take advantage of me you know if I was to show any type of weakness but also inside deep inside I didn't want to live that way anymore I was like man I'm not an animal you know like yeah I live like an animal but I'm still a human being like I don't want to be angry I don't it's funny like I don't want to be angry but I'm angry all the time you know I don't want to have these murderous thoughts I hate having these murderous thoughts but like I kept having these murderous violent thoughts you know and I was just like really stuck in this loop of like living happy and sad happy sad happy sad happy sad until I just felt this like emptiness and this void inside of my heart it's as if like I had I was walking around with like a hole in my heart I still remember it very vividly today just nothing made me happy nothing you lost your friend to me you died in your arms when was that that was when I got out of prison so I got out and you know we had planned to rob a drug dealer very well known drug dealer in our area and I was supposed to go to the right he was supposed to go to the left of this car as I go to the right he steps in front of me so I go to the left and he gets gunned down and yeah right there he dies in my arms car speeds off you know and um yeah that was very very traumatic for me you know to think about that and um you know have I dealt with that survivors guilt for such a long time and I just felt like I didn't I didn't deserve to live you know what I mean so I do I do at that point um I 100% took full responsibility and you know I apologize to his family like I'm sorry to say but who am I you know what I mean to go and tell somebody hey my bad your son is dead because of me like you know what I mean I'm not God I'm not anybody so it was such a hard thing to deal with honestly and I drowned myself in alcohol and medicated you know doing drugs meth whatever I could get my hands on to like not think about it because I would see him in my dreams I would get tormented you know I would have him grabbing me by the ankles you know like Johnny why you know like it was just a lot of crazy stuff bro and you know thankfully I'm free from that today but for a very long time I was struggling with that um so see when you're making the changes in there doing anger management getting diplomas what was the mindset like before you were coming out where you decided like you say it's 50-50 but you know yourself if you're still 50-50 to go back to old habits was that the plan as soon as you came out I'll be contemplating walking away from it because you're two strikes one more you're life would off and what was the mindset like going coming out it was more of like okay I'm gonna give this a shot I'm gonna try and find a job I'm gonna I'm not gonna go straight because I know as soon as I get out I have all the avenues I have the respect I have you know I can make money the day that I get out of prison basically you know being plugged in having these different links you know but um I was like nope I'm gonna try and fly straight for a little bit I'm gonna go to my PO I'm gonna you know pee in a cup I'm gonna do everything you know and I did I did for a little bit you know a couple months but again as I was applying to FedEx UPS Home Depot McDonald's I mean shoot there's a lot of places that I applied to and um you know that little box that says you know did you commit a crime or whatever I was honest put the crime told them everything I did two counts sold with deadly weapon um yeah no callback no nothing I was very vengeful at that time you know I said you know I remember like looking up to the sky you know if there's God or Buddha whatever why won't you let me like live I guess you want me to die so I was like eff it you know I'm just gonna go and go back to what I know so right then in there call the homies plug me in boom they plug me in um you know maybe a month month and a half after I'm starting to get my my money up you know making 30 40 thousand dollars a month now and and yeah it was pretty crazy you know what were you doing drugs selling drugs white brown whatever I could get my hands on honestly mostly white I'm stepping on brakes a lot and then um some greens you know marijuana was kind of at that time was the green rush as they say but um pills I mean whatever I could push yeah if you're putting an applicator listen I always like to give everybody a chance but if you're putting an application at me with fucking kidnaps and shootings I ain't gonna fucking kill you bro for fuck's sake I would have lied on that fucking I would have had to lie on that bro part of me is thinking you put that there because you didn't want to fucking get a job for fuck's sake shootings fucking highway shootings and kidnaps there's always a yeah come in Johnny boy come manager fuck that I'm ripping that up and burning at me I don't want to see your name on an application again fucking shootings and kidnaps part of me is thinking nah you know you would never get the job but again that method of madness you're thinking why can't I get a break why can't I get a chance life doesn't just give you a chance because Johnny decides I'm what to change life doesn't work that way you know that's yourself it's a long steady process so you've ended up active again you've lost your best friend is that then do you then just become a loose cannon want to kill, want to shoot, want to stab yeah it was just very I had that victimized mindset you know that yeah I did these things but no one cares about me so I just I'm not going to care about anybody else you know and that's why we plan that robbery stuff that's why I wanted to just it was weird like I couldn't live but I couldn't die like I had that feeling of like I was too afraid to die because like you know I kind of feared like hell you know and I understood the concept of hell even though I wasn't Christian at the time or even Buddhist at the time you know but and then I couldn't keep living because I had this depression and like emptiness so I was in a state where I couldn't live I couldn't die and I felt like that was true misery like I didn't taste that until after I got out of prison so I thought getting out of prison I was going to feel better at least but actually it was feeling worse and even though I was making all of that money that was when I attempted to like take my life the most on three separate occasions during was during that time and and that's because I recognize that you know having money it doesn't matter like there was something inside of me that that I couldn't like get rid of you know I couldn't make money the right way like other people I couldn't it was always like I was chasing after something and and I would reach it and then it would be like it would level up I'd have to get more and more and more and it was just like it was crazy it was a never ending cycle and I just felt like there was no point in living and so many things happen you know in my life after that so my friend died you know within a span of like a week and a half to two weeks two other people who I really cared about in my life also passed away so I started to feel this this feeling of death you know and I'm like okay I'm definitely my time is coming like you just know you know people are dying left and right in front of you felt like it was a sign and at that point you know my mom actually was the one that saved my life you know she she found Christianity and back in you know maybe four years before I got released from prison and she was always the same thing she went from you know Buddhist chanting to like here's some Bible scriptures here's some prayers and I was like what the hell is wrong with this girl you know she's she was Buddhist and now she's telling me that she's just going all over the place like you know I can't listen to this person so but she was the one that actually changed my life I would say was I so it's a yes I was did you try and take your life three times yes yes the first time was basically like it was a mixture it was it was um like trying to overdose basically force induce like a overdose death right death by overdose different drugs hot you know cocktails whatever and then um I tried like you know maybe the day after that so I woke up and then I did like a pill I don't know how many pills it was like a whole big bottle full of like Tylenol so that didn't do anything they just pumped out pumped me out in the ER and then um second time was basically trying to shoot myself and then the third time was also trying to shoot myself my brother actually saved my life on the third time without him realizing it you know he called right when I was about to do it you know and it was weird like he was getting into like some problems because he was running up some kind of debt in prison which is not a good thing um and then you know he so it was weird when he called me that it was perfect timing like I had all my issues and I was going to take my life but then he comes and he's like I had Joe Johnny I need your help bro move some money around green dot this that and then I'm like I just shifted my focus onto him and then I kind of that little bit little shift snap me out of everything but yeah in three separate occasions is that because the death of your best friend uh mixture mixture death of my best friend um had my GED had my anger management counseling still felt empty I would say a large majority would be the death of my friend but also emptiness like I couldn't get rid of my my sadness I'd wake up empty bro it's crazy you know why do you think you're still alive I think honestly God had a higher purpose I never thought I would make it this far honestly um so yeah every time I think about that I'm actually thankful you know um I think I'm alive because God wanted to utilize my story and reach people who are also going through this because that's what I went viral for was essentially just sharing my story of emptiness um you know living that up and down lifestyle that happy sad happy sad lifestyle and I think that you don't have to be a gang member to experience depression you don't have to be a gang member to experience you know trauma and things like that and we're all interconnected through that and I think that most people can can relate to me because I'm vulnerable whereas a lot of people are still in that stage and I went through that stage of not showing their vulnerability so I think yeah my life is just to at least I now is to dedicate um to helping people overcome this hopelessness and emptiness and void that they feel like I really want to help them because the people in my life helped me overcome and I do feel like paying it forward is like the best thing and I'm super happy now you know um it's weird I'm more tired I'm traveling we're doing this crazy you know what I'm saying like a fucking crazy Scotsman you've just traveled 15 hours from LA can't understand the word I'm saying you're doing better off in prison bro ha ha ha you fucking better off inside me you must be thinking what the fuck how am I with that mad bastard so funny bro but yeah so your mum clearly searching Buddhism to Christianity it's night and day it's not a go against the beliefs Buddhism we don't really have a god you're allowed to study or read about other religions you know yes yes did you not read the Quran front to back and the Bible front to back I did I did I read the front to buy the back the Bible front to back two times in prison and I read the Quran front to back three times I actually converted to Sunni Islam when Sunni Muslim when I was in in prison you know so I did stick with the religion just for a little bit because I had a cellmate who also after that old guy moved out um you know or got transferred out his points dropped and went to another prison I kind of clicked up with this this guy um you know and he was really really cool he taught me about you know um prayer he taught me about the more the spiritual stuff you know in my life and um yeah we read it front to back bro he showed me the hadith you know which is like the cliff notes you know he showed me all these different things that you have to read it with you know that he had his imams that but anyways yeah still even though I did all of that no no cure for the emptiness bro it was weird it was like man okay I'm doing all I'm doing this okay this is gonna be better and then it's kind of like a soccer game you know it's like when the side is getting close to scoring and it's like oh it's almost there and then they missed the goal you know so I felt like my my heart was getting pulled this back and forth like almost like the ocean you know high tide low tide happy sad happy sad so it was just crazy as as Buddhism to the have a good um they they believe almost like you're your own God I mean they worship Buddha even though Buddha doesn't really like want to be worshipped um but it's more of like um psychological stuff they believe that heaven and hell is in your mind and they don't call it heaven they call it nirvana you know so they believe in reincarnation um they believe in karma you know karm karmic debt right if the more good you put out into this world the more you'll receive and then the the more evil you put out the more you'll receive back as well but it didn't really make sense to my mom and that's why my mom changed because my mom submitted to my dad my mom did everything you know was good to us honestly never really hit us um but she had not just one kid two kids in prison alcoholic husband so it didn't really kind of like you know she didn't really do evil things I mean she had one person my father her whole life she met him you know had kids with him never cheated never drank never done nothing crazy um so I mean you know it just didn't really add up to her and she also felt that void that I was talking about that emptiness too because she's like I did everything by the book and what's going on here you know so yeah it really tore her up inside too you know do you see a lot of yourself and your mom oh yeah for sure 100% when we argue if me and my mom argue it's that my brother and my dad will go in the room like they just they can't stop us you know we're the same bro we're both very strong very egotistical very stubborn people absolutely so when you talk about this emptiness yeah when did you start feeling something was making sense what was the moment uh when I met my pastor so I had by chance taking my mom to church and you know met this pastor and I didn't want to meet him at first you know it happened organically because they made food you know and and this this thing called black bean noodles um and that's my favorite dish you know so when I got there to the church you know smelled the the noodles and the pastor was cool he wasn't put like preachy or pushy a lot of uh uh you know there's prison chaplains in prison there's Catholics in prison you know there's um apostolics that come in and they were honestly pretty like preachy very pushy as well like they acted nice at first but they're like you know kind of trying to push the religion on to you saying that you need to repent saying that if you don't you'll go to hell you know just stuff like that and I didn't want to hear stuff like that you know and then they would say they would always finish it with oh because we love you we're telling you what's gonna happen to you you know and I'm like so you're telling me I'm gonna burn in hell because you love me that's crazy you know but he didn't do that he was more like oh you know we got some noodles do you want to you know take it take it home and being Asian we don't do that like if you're gonna prepare something for us we have to at least come to your house sit down enjoy it with you complement you whatever so yeah I went and sat down with him and he started to essentially show me like my heart in front of me like and what I mean by that is he was able to dissect my heart and show me the man who I didn't know lived a completely opposite life than I did he was a pastor's kid right he grew up in the church he was saved at 19 years old basically and he just lived his whole life as a as preaching the gospel from Korea doesn't know anything about the LA gang culture politics none of that but yet he was telling me for the first time why I was feeling empty he was essentially peeling back the layers of the onion for me and getting to the root issue and that was crazy like and I noticed that he was just wise like he's spoken away where I understood everything that he was saying he was explaining to me just why I was the way I was and he was actually normal whereas everyone even myself was telling me no you're crazy there's something wrong with you you're not the same as other people you're violent you're this you're that and that's why you should just continue living the way that you live because you're gonna die anyways you know he was showing me that my thoughts my own thoughts were deceiving me and he said all thoughts are not our thoughts that's what he said and I'm like whoa I never thought about that because I used to think if I'm thinking my own thoughts they're from me but not necessarily so he was able to show me all of this and right off bit yeah because when you're taking advice even for your elders and prison that guy's in for a double murder he's a fucking psychopath so even though you're taking advice he's still not that smart first of all he's got caught as well so it's the method of thinking that we think oh he's a good guy he's trapped listen people make mistakes and I believe people who've been an addict it's then easier to help people who are struggling them sit for people who was an addict maybe changed their life at sea instead of the people's learn from books and they try and guide people they've never really lived it they've not got that key ingredient to then show people so if the guy's done murders I get it if he's made changes but you're still speaking with psychopaths then you've got a clean living man but it kind of is that when it made it made sense yeah what you were searching for you kind of got some answers yes yes how old were you at that time I had gotten out of prison I probably was out for like maybe eight months so almost a year so what twenty twenty five twenty five years old how how does that take out these gangs oh it's hard it's hard you know but but again you know you it goes back to the question of when you said you know why do you think you're alive you know I'm in a very special point in my life and a very special position I never had to drop out of my gang which is a beautiful thing you know you know my family's in it my brother's still in it a lot of my family members are in it so I never had to really like denounce them because even if I denounce them I can't stop being my brothers younger brother uncles you know nephew this and that so when I thought about it like God has at least I credit this to God is that he allowed me to be in this position where they support me my friends my my gang member friends they actually support me you know they see my interviews are probably going to see this one and they cheer me on it's crazy you know and I think it's because they know that I'm not here to glorify anything that I'm truly changed and even my older homies you know they teach me to like yeah the younger generation that's coming in guide them correctly you know like I mean we're all in a gang because we're all broken people you know you don't join a gang just because you know I don't think normal people join gangs I guess you say this has to be that level of like psychopath right but at the same time it's really just broken human beings come in together and finding some kind of solace being in the midst of chaos together you know so they never really denounced or rejected me and they support everything that I do and that's something that a lot of people can't say there's a lot of people who are ex gang members who are like casted out or exiled out who are still to this day looking over their shoulders because you know I've seen people get put in the dirt you know murdered for speaking on camera and things like that you know but they I found a sweet spot where they accept me and they allow me to do that and they know that I'm just telling my story and my message and what helped me and they see people I'll be out with my friends sometimes to go eat and stuff and people will walk up you know you're Johnny Chang bro let me get a photo and you know the big homies they all see they're like man that's what it's about bro that's what's up you know so they're very like supportive it's crazy but I feel as if you probably earned your stripes anyway by being imprisoned from the ages of 12 and nearly 15 years without snitching so they probably knew you're a clean cut good guy, loyal or else you would be fucking dead sitting on camera and you know yourself don't think that's snitching and there's some people speak too much out of school for me and obviously look at the guy who the two pack murder he's fucking sitting on a podcast saying he was there that night it doesn't matter if it was 25 years ago 100 years ago the books are still open for you to get a case and it's just how it comes back and bites you in the ass but I feel as if with podcast now I feel as if everybody thinks that you're eliminated for some old court case it doesn't work that way a lot of people speak their self into an indictment for sure for sure and there's no statute of limitation for things like that murder and things like that so crazy so your mum changed she'd found what she was searching for you then meet the pastor but one of the most defining moments in your life was when the pastor told you to speak to your dad yeah so my so after everything you know my pastor was basically explaining to me that you're normal that you know he used a lot of analogies essentially you know that like a house for example he said when you look at a house and it gets vandalized you know do you blame the house you know for being having its windows broken having it graffitied on no of course not you blame the vandal likewise you know he showed me a bible verse in Romans chapter 7 basically telling us that we hate doing the things that we do so my father hates drinking but he keeps on doing it because there's something inside of him that's leading him to do it this vandal right which is sin so that I really resonated with that because I also when I would rob people or do evil things like outwardly it looked like I was doing it but inside I would question now why did I do that what the hell is wrong with me do I have no remorse whatsoever for people to just go up to them and stick them up pistol-whipped and bust their head open you know like crazy stuff and then just for this paper basically you know that I have to keep chasing after and I just really had a lot of regret too so it's weird when pastor put it in that perspective I was able to humanize my father and he said your father is like a house and he's getting vandalized every day but you're blaming really him the house you have to blame the vandal and he said you too Johnny you've been vandalized all your life by these intrusive thoughts by this evil destructive voice and it really put in perspective for me to humanize my own father who I thought if I if he died I would be happy you know and I don't know it was weird like pity compassion started to flow inside of my heart and I started to feel bad for my dad for the first time in my life whereas before that it was all rage and anger I hated him and that's when he said now that you understand I want you to apologize to your father and I thought that was crazy you know victim apologizing to the aggressor doesn't matter if it's in Scotland America you don't do that you know the person who's at fault has to apologize but he made it very clear that because I was right I was also miserable and he was right again he was pulling my card you know he's calling my bluff you know he was basically seeing what was inside of my heart that everywhere I went I carried this burden of victim like I'm a victim and I carried this burden of I'm lonely and depressed because I didn't have a good father and really bro I would go on the streets see people who had like their own fathers hugging on them buying them food and I felt like this rage inside of my heart but also sadness and just this roller coaster of emotion and just being angry immediately because somebody had a loving father and I didn't and I don't know why I didn't deserve that you know I didn't ask to be born but why didn't I have a father why wasn't I born to a father who could take care of me and so he was again able to show my heart like a mirror you know this is what you feel and I know and I want to free you from that I have the antidote to free you from this and and he said the antidote is apologizing and being wrong and I'm like what the hell that's crazy and he used one analogy that really made sense and pushed me forward was he said if you think about the war right people who go to war for example it's because both sides believe that they're right and they're fighting for something they believe that they're right they're even willing to die for it so when that happens telephone lines you know communication water everything is broken down the society breaks down there's chaos everywhere because they're bombing each other buildings are collapsing right but when one side is like it gives up right one side loses and says they're sorry essentially then that's when the roads are rebuilt you know pieces it starts to flow into these countries likewise Johnny you're right and your father's also right so two right people they're clashing right now if you learn to say that you're sorry then peace I believe by faith he said peace will flow into your guys relationship and it was weird it kind of oddly made sense at that time so I was like okay I'll do it I made the determination in my heart I'm gonna do that so I apologize to my father and when I apologize to him you know told him that hey dad I'm sorry for being a bad son I'm sorry for being in a gang I'm sorry that I ruined your dreams of coming to America and living the American dream and he started just crying and he's like I'm sorry son it wasn't even you it was me I was a bad father I was abusive I couldn't carry you know handle my drinking and we just hugged it out after that 20 years of pain was gone I mean we have a great relationship now and all that was due to a short Korean pastor telling me um go and say sorry to your father and see what happens by faith and after that I just really my life started to upgrade after that you know really yet you're happiest when I unlock that trauma for people so sharing my stories like this having people come up to me and tell me hey Johnny you don't even know listening to your story I did exactly what you did to my mom or my father and then them rekindling like it really brings me joy inside of my heart you know and and it's so peaceful so I'm most happy when I see other people just being unlocked from that that prison of like that emotional and mental prison of like you know just just emptiness and void you know when they're free from that it's such a beautiful thing like it makes me just be thankful for everything you know when you turn to Christ then the Bible yes absolutely and what was that feeling when you gangbanging shooting people stabbing people to then turn to Christ and then talking about religion how were you treated by the people you did grotesque did a lot of people turn their back on you as well at first they did at first they couldn't understand they're like yo this guy this guy is saying that he's righteous you know they looked at me like I was a psychopath you know Johnny if you're righteous then we're all righteous because you were the worst of the worst none of they would make jokes none of us went to prison at 12 years old you know so you're bad you know how can you say they would laugh at me at first but it's funny because the more I grew and my peace grew I feel like God led by example through my life you know now the homies come to me for everything hey Johnny I'm fighting with my girl can you give me a Bible verse you know or something that can you give me advice you know and I'm kind of like the anchor and the pillar when people feel this emptiness and they don't have that emotional maturity or spiritual maturity or self-awareness they'll come and ask me and then I'll unlock it for them you know so it went from like yeah this guy this is a phase this guy's believing in God and they all do this they come out of prison and they think they find God but I'm actually able to help them a lot of them come to my church I mean it's a beautiful thing how do you feel now happy all the time bro it's crazy it's like very peaceful you know um whereas everything I remember was chaotic up and down you know life's a rollercoaster I feel very based now very just calm peaceful I don't trip anymore like people you know if anything I'm getting more flack nowadays because people know me from the past ah don't listen to him he's a little fake church boy because he shot he shot at my family and you know these things resurface but for me I'm still peaceful about these things like I've made peace with the fact that I've done those things yes but it wasn't I feel like it wasn't me um I feel like you know I really trusted in myself and therefore those thoughts that came in allowed me to live very evil um I don't feel like that defines who I am now you know who I am now is completely different from what Johnny just 10 years ago you know so um I'm very thankful for that and people don't forget you've done evil things people will never forget no matter how well you do no matter how many lives you save no matter how much you change how do you deal with that when you're on a good path you're on a righteous path to do the right things in life people are calling you a psychopath when you're reading the bible they were fucking thinking you were normal back in the day when I was doing my shit I was fucking off my head in coke and booze and then I'd done like a Reiki course which is like healing energy I grew a fucking top knot and I stand in this living room with six different women with my little fucking certificate to say I was a Reiki master in the comments or thinking he's lost his fucking head look at the state of him he's this and that people thought I was more fucking crazy then when I was when I was fucking crazy back then it's crazy how I've just said crazy like five fucking times people's method of thinking that just everything's levels spirituality vibrations you were at the bottom the lowest vibration the darkest the seediest the most chaotic does not let you say it's a roller coaster so how do you deal with it now because everybody no matter how much you change you've still got that element of crazy still fucking there do you know what I mean but people always like to poke the bear but how do you deal with that now you're in a better place headspace you don't need to react what's your advice I don't take it personally I feel like everyone's going to have an opinion and those opinions aren't even their opinions because opinions change too the beautiful thing about the heart and feelings where the heart come where the feelings come from the heart it changes you know like one day you could be mad like for example I was a gang member I thought I was going to die from my gang I don't feel like that anymore you know and I remember no one could talk me out of that no one could talk me out of you know not snitching you know I knew people who were like just snitch bro like I mean you don't even have to do time just point these people out and I was like no I won't do it so you know I really changed a lot because the heart changes you know so yes there's people who come in some people in my bible study who when they first saw my video they tell me straight up oh you have you know tattoos you have these types of tattoos that symbolize murder and your gang and everything and yeah you're talking about Christianity your cycle but the funny thing is they say the more that they listen to me they start to recognize like dang this guy actually has a point and they start to change as well so I look at it as like any type of ridicule that comes it's just an opportunity for people to to kind of like get used to you and experience you and really kind of open their mind you know it's a chance for them to open their mind I don't take it as combative I even if it's a mean comment I take it more as like damn that's sad cause what they're doing is they're on here and they're missing the whole message because they can't get out of that mindset of judging people and like you know and it's almost like I've accepted that you're either damned if you do or damned if you don't if I'm reading the Bible like you say they're gonna think I'm crazy if I'm shooting people they're gonna think I'm crazy so I don't live for people and I feel like people's opinions only matter to people it doesn't matter to me you know and I've gotten to that point where I've acknowledged who I am yeah if I trust Johnny again tomorrow I can go and pick up a gun and start shooting people I know that there's a difference you know whereas people try to push that away I know that if I believe in myself again and I trust those intrusive thoughts you know then I can go back to it and I use an analogy of like a trash garbage you know trash can trash inside of the garbage is not an issue right inside of your mind as well those thoughts staying inside is okay it's when the trash comes out it's over the couch over the bed on the floor that's when it becomes an issue right likewise my thoughts if I'm not reacting off of that and it's not coming out as action it's not a problem these are just fleeting thoughts they'll come they'll go they'll come they'll go and so yeah maybe I might get mad sometimes reading a comment and they're putting all my information out there I saw a comment last time you know recently where they're like look at Johnny you know he's acting all calm and you know he's all famous now but you know he shot you know his gang and him you know hit me multiple times you know hit my family hurt put us through a lot you know and this is all his like they're putting my information core case information everything and the first thought was rage you know I was like man what the fuck like this guy why are they doing this you know why are they putting all this information out there you know don't they see that we're doing a positive thing but I just kind of sat on it and I was like oh yeah those are my impulsive initial thoughts I'm not gonna trust those thoughts it's okay you know they have a right as much as I do to say and speak you know and that's what they want to put out there I mean it's not like they're lying it's true what they were writing in that comment you know and then I had noticed that it had gotten removed you know but I was like okay cool you know so I just kind of leave everything like you know up to the hands of God if you will yeah because you still need to accept the bad shit that you've done it doesn't necessarily because Johnny's changed of course what's the hardest part about change Johnny what's the hardest thing about change for me it was always the conscience tearing you and remembering you like when you say when you do change you realise the world is a good place there's good things happen but there was a conscience that says just because you've changed the pain is still there so here's a little reminder of that because when you block everything out it's easy not to feel it's easy to be selfish it's easy to cut everything off but that's a lonely journey that's where the loneliness comes in from me because you've blocked everything off because you don't want to feel the pain that you're causing because you know deep inside it's wrong but you're too afraid to admit it every gang bang and every gangster every drug lord everybody who I've interviewed who think they're serious it's because they're broken it's because they're scared yes and now it also takes many many years to realise that but for you what was the main thing the hardest thing about change I think was yeah coming to the conclusion and acknowledging yourself for who you really were like that was who we were you know I mean and that can still be who you are depending on if you trust and believe yourself so I feel like when I trust my thoughts when I follow myself like just like I followed myself to join a gang just like I followed myself to sell drugs like you know I didn't I had different options I didn't have to join a gang you know but I thought that was what was good in my eyes at that point I've learned that that's the biggest struggle even now is making my own decisions and like not surrendering fully to God so I would say that's a struggle you know but every time that I do surrender you know and you know people say okay Johnny if you don't trust yourself who do you who can you trust and that's why I read the Bible is because I start to get a lot of wisdom from that you know and it's weird the more I've trusted other people instead of myself like my pastor or like the Bible my life has upgraded my peace has grown whereas before if I trusted myself you know I was I was just miserable all the time living destructively so I think honestly the biggest struggle even now is just like that consciousness of like I'm right and I know what's right and I have to kind of struggle with that every day it's a daily battle where it's like this makes sense to me but then I have to check myself and be like but also selling drugs made sense to me Robin a drug dealer and coming up off of a hundred thousand dollars at once also made sense to me cost my friend his life though so I have to also find that intricate balance of am I gonna trust myself today or am I gonna trust you know the word of God and that's kind of been the struggle with the change that I've dealt with is your thoughts though drinking no he's he's he's he's done completely um he's comes to church to it's crazy comes to church he's done drinking doesn't beat my mom anymore it's crazy it's kind of weird they go on dates I'm just like yo this is nothing they like you know kiss each other and hold hands and I'm like what the heck is going on right now you know same thing he was also saved uh through the same pastor that helped me because he noticed a change in me he's like okay Johnny's not throwing parties anymore he's not carrying a gun anymore like what the hell what's wrong with my son he noticed a piece as well he noticed that I wasn't arguing with him or anything crazy not getting physical with him so he went to my church he asked the pastor straight up what did you do to my son you know what made him so calm you know and then he preached the gospel pastor preached the gospel to my dad and he received salvation too you know my dad was drinking a lot because he in his you know teens like uh late teens he he actually ran over somebody he killed somebody and he also had survivors guilt you know and and I didn't know that you know so he was trying to drown himself out as well drown out all that emotion block it all out and he used a medium of of a soju bottle you know alcohol and um yeah now that I think about it how sad you know I was judging this man outwardly not understanding that he was also struggling with inner demons he was broken completely and he didn't share that with anybody he never shared that with me I don't think he even shared that with my mom honestly or maybe he did but my mom didn't share with us you know so yeah it was crazy about shame and guilt a powerful like you talk about Buddhism the circle of life yeah I read a book called many lives many masters it talks about if you don't fix your problems this life you come back again with the same problems and the add another one on like all my dad's uncles were murdered yeah all my uncles were murdered my mom's lost two brothers to murder and it kind of seemed as if it was the same spiral same sort of same as you and your dad your dad seen somebody die he's living with that pain he intoxicated himself and all the external negatives you've done the same you've seen your best friend get killed you've had from the pain people who drink and take drugs is a weakness they're weak they're not big men people drink and take drugs for fake confidence fake high suppressed feelings suppressed emotions is bullshit so it's like the full circle where and then you've healed it you've brought whatever connection has been in your family whether some people say it's cursed some people say it's reincarnation come back to real life and fix the problems like do you see that connection of being like your dad also as much as being like your mom for sure 100% you know that's that's what the pastor told me was you're exactly the same as your dad and that kind of put a like a sour taste in my mouth I'm like no I I don't beat women you know I don't drink like him you know but my heart was like his we were both hurt and struggling inside and he just went the medium of alcohol and I went the route of violence and gang-banging but it's still the same trauma it's still the same hurt that we were still interconnected and again that's how I was able to humanize him and realize that damn I'm actually very similar to my father in that way then if you put it in that way I just never seen it from that perspective ever so I was very thankful towards him and yeah I agree with that you know we're so similar and to hate him would mean that I have to hate myself honestly it's like metadata mech so see when you started speaking out and stuff how was that feeling were you nervous or do you just believe it was your calling I was nervous at first just like we had touched up on I didn't want to share this stuff this is stuff that I'm putting myself out there for millions of people to see like I mean the software at underbelly got like almost 7 million views on top of that there's all these other platforms that I went viral on flat TV and you know all these other places and but I learned that you know just sharing your story it really gives hope to a lot of people yeah there's going to be people the naysayers the judgmental people sure sure but I'm not living for those people you know I I know so many people now who are like bro your your testimony you know changed my life so at first yes it was hard at first I was like why am I going to these prisons my pastors like Johnny you should go to these prisons you should become an international chaplain ordain minister um to share and I'm like hell no you know my thoughts were like telling me don't do that it's embarrassing you're weak you know you go in there and people you may see some of the people you very people you hurt imagine you're teaching a class you know and you hurt that person that's in your class like how stupid how hypocritical are you but the funny thing is my pastor that's why he's a wise man he said Johnny it's crazy that Satan is planting these thoughts in you and I'm like Satan's planting thoughts inside of me how do you know you know he said you know when you're doing lines of coke and you're drinking he was never like oh you need to stop doing this he was like wow this is amazing this is life you gotta continue but now that you're going to actually go and help people he gives you nervousness he gives you this anxiety he gives you this oh if you go in there you know they may kidnap you and stab you because that also happens in these prisons you know and he's it's like wow Satan wants to really protect your life you know have you thought about that and with that I was able to deny my thoughts and move forward and the crazy thing is I still remember first time I went to prison it was in Lancaster State Prison the very my my original stomping grounds my alma mater as they said and I went in there and there was a group of 37 people inmates and this was back you know like like 2017 something like that and I started to preach I just gave my testimony taught the courses and at first I was like dang these guys you know they're going to think I'm stupid you know I walk in there I stick out like a sore thumb they're looking at me they're like what the hell is this guy doing here you know he's he looks like he needs to be in one of our uniforms you know but so they see me once I finish my my you know my class walk up to me and they start like shaking my hand they start to open up you know I'm in here for double murder and that's people never talk about that if you're in prison you don't talk about your murders you don't talk about your cases basically they're opening up and they're like hey bro that emptiness that you felt I feel that right now so like they start to kind of like you know it was a beautiful thing I was able to help them and now I'm doing this full time prison ministry full time and I just I realized like and what if I followed those thoughts what if I was like no I'm not going to do that I'm okay no I'm a gangster I'm going to talk on camera let's say you know how many people would I be able to really help I don't think as much as I could so I was pastor was teaching me to deny my thoughts you know and move forward boldly and that's what I do nowadays you know so so life is good thing life is great honestly it's great and I'm undeserving of it and I know that you know but I'm also very thankful you know that I'm able to help and however long I'm living this is just what I want to do you know and otherwise I wouldn't jump on a plane you know and speak to me you probably think I don't even know that constant maybe you're losing your fucking head maybe you're still fucking psychotic mate who jumps on a plane from LA to come and speak to a Scotsman I don't think you've changed you know your friends are right mate you're still off your fucking head how important is belief because I believe in a higher power I don't know what the creator is so many gods and so many religions I understand and I'm not here to discredit anyone because I'm not educated enough you know so I love Buddhism beliefs I've dipped my toe into Christianity I was raised a Catholic but I believe there's a higher power whoever's creator does the mind and how it functions it blows my mind but how important is it for you and belief to have something to believe in I think it's very important you know I think there's this peace when you can kind of place the responsibility on understanding that there is a higher power I believe all religions teach you to do well there's no religion that blatantly just tells you hey go out and just do evil things for me personally Christianity was the religion that lifted me out and taught me that you can't do it without a savior we call him our savior cause he has to save us from something you know I liken it to like somebody who's drowning for example if I'm in the middle of the ocean and I'm drowning I doesn't matter how much I try to swim I'm gonna die I don't know how to swim right I'm drowning so I need a lifeguard to come and save me and put me back on land likewise I was drowning in my depression drowning in my misery drowning in my just loneliness and emptiness and I feel like God was the only one you know Jesus was able to save me when he told me that hey you're righteous you're holy your thoughts are all evil don't trust those thoughts all other religions even you know within you know within Muslim with Buddhism it's all you're kind of your own master almost you write the faith you know you you are the author almost you know you make a decision and your deeds outweigh you know your good deeds outweigh the bad deeds you know and that's kind of the system of like working you know but for Christianity true Christianity it's all about grace yeah you don't deserve it Johnny but somebody came out of it and that type of love is a it's a different type of love you know so I was able to experience true love through that and that's why I never push it onto people I'm never like oh you guys need to do this it's like you have to come to that conclusion and realize that you know if it's based off of humans who are imperfect I don't think we can ever reach a level of perfection because we're already flawed from birth so we need something that's perfect to save us and that's just how I explain it to people you know and they're always shocked like why at all the religions you know Hindu thousands of gods you know this and that I'm like I mean because the ones that I did study I didn't study all the religions but for the most part you can see that it's really based off of you it's at least a 50-50 work it's like okay God did what he did you know but you help you also have to put in your work but it's like how do I put in the work of God on this level like I can't do it and when I recognize I couldn't do it that's when he did everything for me when I recognize that I was nothing and I had no other way that's when he became everything and he was the way right so it was kind of like really crazy how that all came together but I had to get to that position otherwise I was continuously trying and failing trying and failing so the biggest religions in the world you've got Muslim, Christianity Buddhism what's the one verse that sticks out what's the one thing that sticks out in your mind that makes sense the most for me I would say Hebrews 10-14 the verse that says for by one offering he has perfected for ever them that are sanctified so why that stuck out and why that saved my life is because it says one offering which is Jesus Christ died for our sins we know that and then it says perfected which is in past tense which I always thought was weird you know perfected meaning already completed already perfect for ever means eternally because there's nothing forever in this world we know that too and then it says them that are sanctified which is made holy are sanctified made holy my thoughts though told me no I'm not holy I'm not perfect I'm evil so I need to you know I'm flawed right I need to like continuously live the cycle of sin repent happy sad but when I threw away my thoughts and I leaned on to this word it changed my life like now when my thoughts come in because there's always cravings you know this is a drug you know you I need a drink today I got I want to do a line of coke like that'll just level me out today you know but when those thoughts come I lean on that word no no I'm not that old person anymore I'm perfected I'm a new creature I'm somebody who's you know sanctified holy already I think that's where a lot of people can't get out of that hole that they're stuck in soon as that thought comes up they have to then manage that thought we don't manage our thoughts I learned to forsake my thoughts no I'm not going to trust this thought I'm a lean on the word and of course if you don't know the Bible and you're not well versed then it's like a person a street fighter trying to fight Mike Tyson or like Floyd Mayweather you're going to lose every single time right Satan is very cunning he's very smart if you don't know how to fight that spiritually with the verses you're going to lose every time so that's why I read the Bible front to back 21 times it's not because I want to read and I'm crazy it's because I know if I don't have this weaponry if I don't have this arsenal of verses to counteract my thoughts I'm not even going to make it this far you know I would fall into my misery you know so yeah where do you go forward for the future Johnny honestly I let God just lay it all out right like I don't know if it's going to be more podcast you know I don't know if it's going to be more public speaking keynote speaking I don't really care honestly I just want to help people and I think that's what's good about you know what I'm doing now is I'm trying to just help people so whatever way it is I do Bible studies private Bible studies one on one counseling I counsel a lot of influencers X strippers current strippers only fans people porn stars whoever and I help everybody so for me I'm just like whatever God you know whatever it is you know if he wants to again fly me help to out here you know I'm like let's do it you know I'm game for everything so I just go wherever I feel like yeah but why do you think so many people are broken why do you think so many people are lost because obviously we've got drink we've got drugs we've got porn we've got so many things from the day we're born everything's labels and religions you're giving a name and I've been speaking about this with then cut the umbilical cord too soon and yeah a lot of mothers don't breastfeed which is bad for abandonment issues and we're kind of lost and flawed from a very young age but what do you think it is for now that you've spoke to so many broken souls yeah what do you think I'll be honest it's it starts with just not understanding the core nature of who they are who people are I mean it goes back to the Bible I mean it tells us that we're born evil right we're born flawed because of sin so me for example I'm Chinese you know I didn't choose to be Chinese right I was born this way why because my father his father so on and so forth likewise if you believe in Christianity Adam was a sinner so when he birthed Cain also another sinner sin sin sin sin passed down all the way to us so we're born evil that's why you have to teach kids to do good you know you have to teach them to not cry you have to teach them to not be selfish because naturally it's part of us and yet if you notice this world what does it teach you it teaches you trust yourself believe in yourself follow your heart but the thing is when you trust yourself who's imperfect and flawed then broken things start to happen you know so what I feel like people need to learn is not to trust yourself you have to actually learn to trust in something that's higher than you that is perfect that is better than you but so much of social media so much of this world in general is teaching just like individualism know the master you do what you want to do and sure people do what they want to do but a lot of people because they did what they wanted to do they're miserable did everything you thought and every thought that you that came to you did it come to like fruition was it perfectly as you thought it would be of course not we had to bend a lot we had to change our mindset we had to you know do all that and it's because our thought it's proof that our thoughts are not always correct but the issue is we're all deceived into thinking that if I just follow what I want and follow my heart then I'll I'll be happy and every person that I see that's broken it's all because they had that mindset of like I'm gonna be the master and I'm gonna do what I want to do just like me I wanted to join a gang I'm not doing no homework that didn't make me happy I'm gonna do I'm gonna join again I'll make money that's what I'm gonna do and it led me to misery and it led me and everyone around me was miserable because I made that decision you know I'm just like my dad's like I'm gonna drink and it made everyone around him miserable too I'm sure he wasn't planning like I'm gonna have a wife and I want to beat the crap out of her and you know beat my kids and who I brought into this world like he never contemplated that it just started with oh this is how I'm gonna self-medicate this will make me feel better it's a way for me to block out what I did and it started with that little thought and it just escalated to him being a monster likewise that little thought entered me and I became a monster after that you know so yeah for anybody watching Johnny that's in that life of struggle maybe feeling broken and lost what advice would you have for them I would say that number one you're not alone I don't think that you know it's a problem to be broken you know we were naturally flawed as human beings and just to bring it all full circle you know if we learn to maybe think about our thoughts I know that sounds crazy but think about all the decisions you made and what led you to where you're at you'll recognize that 90% of it was because you trusted this mindset of I'm gonna do what I want to do and no one else is gonna tell me otherwise but when you have that type of mindset you can't learn from people if you think you're right all the time you can't learn from anybody so we have to come to this position of I'm not right all the time and let's hear what other people have to say that's why we have mentors that's why you know people who are right all the time if you notice they're very isolated nobody wants to be around somebody who's right all the time you know they don't take advice they're very stubborn push everybody away we have to learn to kind of like hear people out and so I would tell them that you know if you're being in that life where everyone is saying you're wrong and everyone is like kind of distancing themselves from you we do have to do a lot of self-reflection and recognize that hey maybe it's because I always thought I was right and I don't listen to anybody and as hard as that sounds if you recognize that and just acknowledge that today you can actually start to heal and I think um relationships will be rebuilt I think um happiness will start to flow into your heart and peace the product of that what's your greatest life lesson Johnny since being on this planet greatest life lesson was um not following everything that arises inside of my heart so what I mean by that is not reacting to my everything that I feel because feelings come and go so like if I feel angry it doesn't it's not gonna be forever no one stays angry all the time and no one stays happy all the time this is part of life uh whereas a lot of people try to shift it where they just be happy all the time and it's like this la la land it's okay to feel emotions I think that's the biggest thing and and people don't want to feel that there's times where you have to feel empty there are times where you have to feel pain because it's just like working out you know no pain no gain right we don't learn anything from success meaning just being happy all the time if anything success breeds complacency right it's when we fail that's when we learn everything you know we learn not to move this way not to make this business decision so failure is really a beautiful thing right it's necessary for growth yes failure brings pain but to say that I don't want to feel pain anymore I don't want to fail anymore is the same thing as saying I don't want to grow anymore and that's something that nobody would want to say everyone wants to grow and hit these new highs and different levels so the greatest lesson for me would be embracing the pain of failure because when you embrace it it no longer has dominion over you it actually you can weaponize it you can use it to actually grow and that's how I see it listen Johnny for coming all the way from LA to kill your story nothing but a legend bro I'm proud of you for every positive you've made in your life turning it from the negative to the positive it's unbelievable you're doing God's work whoever God is trying to help people trying to help people from not making the same mistakes you did and even if they have made those mistakes they're changing your dad's prime example your prime example he's clearly here for a reason would you like to finish up on anything brother um no I think that's good bro we touched upon everything that's been proud of you look forward to seeing you again and I wish you nothing but the best for the future bro God bless you brother