 All right, so we're all on. I'll leave you here. Wonderful. So the meeting today is Monday, January 22nd, 2024. At the time is 5.30, we'll begin our meeting in the Woodruff Conference Room, and then we'll move those years to convoys after our reception agenda. Our plan for this meeting is they're remotely without the agenda. So moved. Thank you, Councilor King. Seconded by Councilor Jang. So, any discussion on the agenda? Seeing none, all those in favor of the motion, please say aye. Aye. Any opposed, please say no. That motion passes. That moves us on to item 2.1, which is a work session about the public safety tax increase. And for this item, I'll go to the mayor for a presentation and we will have one hour to comfortably get this done so that we can get ourselves upstairs, get the public hearing and then public floor. Yes, the public hearing and then public floor. So the floor is yours. And if you would just simply call on people that all think like they see. Great, thank you. Okay, got it. Yes, your present public. Thank you. Thank you. It is great to have a person that full counsel here. For this discussion, we have been discussing FY25 budget with board of finance for some months. I think it is critical now that we have the conversation with the whole council. The idea with this briefing is to lay out for you the FY25 challenges as we see it. It is a challenging year as well as lay out the numerous different solutions that we're bringing to address it. And if there has been sort of directional support for where we're headed from the board of finance up until now, you know, it's the fully briefing today and potentially come back as soon as next week for action just when you would have to vote if there is going to be a budget related ballot item put on the town meeting day ballot. So our hope is we can lay this out for you, have a discussion, find out if there are questions or additional information that you're seeking over the next week. And then I would like to thank the conference team and the mayor's office will work to try to provide that to you. This is people may remember, the council may remember, I called the FY24 budget, really the hardest of the 12 budgets that I have been involved in. We knew as we passed the FY24 budget that FY25 would be a challenge and that we were very clear funds to close some gaps in the FY 24 budget that would be to be filmed in some other way in the upcoming year. The good news is that we, knowing that it is a challenge, we have a lot, we have been engaging this from July from just basically as soon as we close the FY 24 budget, a great deal of preparation. Preparatory work began. We have a number of operational studies of various studies that are underway and that will ultimately be available to the council before the FY 25 budget needs to be set in May and June. And those that work will allow us to close to address this challenges in a number of ways. The big kind of, well, I'm going to hand this over in a moment to Catherine who will kind of walk through the PowerPoint that has been posted. The big elements of this year's challenge come down to substantial inflation. Since the last time there was a voter approved property tax increase, there has been a cumulative 17% inflation since FY 20. Some of our revenue streams go up with inflation, but our biggest one, the property taxes and property saving time does not. So that high inflationary times are a counter challenge for the city also are the federal assistance that has helped us through the last couple of budget years will not be available to us in the same amounts in the upcoming year. And we also are making, we're spending quite a bit more on public safety than we were FY 20. The last time there was an increase to the fire tax, the, I'm a slide here, it's about four million dollars of additional public safety investments. And I think it is really all mine. Many of yours to continue make those investments and actually can be investing further as the police department rebuilds. And so the goal of this budget is to do that. The basic building blocks of addressing this challenge will involve, will involve cancel expense reductions, non public safety expense reductions. We are, again, this is a goal of the operational, two operational studies that are underway, but within CEDO and for the other major general fund on public safety departments, we can solve about another third in a variety of ways that that involves the growth of existing revenues and some more limited use of one time funds that is available to us here. And we do think this lays out a plan to address the final third with additional tax revenues divided between a tax on visitors through an increase in hotel status and a modest 4% fire and safety property tax. Now, we have worked hard to make that we've already tonight public comment that the board of finance we've gotten a settlement by no others are feeling and have heard as well that it is very that that that you request any kind of increase when you are also the last week from the school department that they are seeking a 14% increase on the 70% of the property tax bill that is the education fund. We are mindful of that. We have continued to work through one of the reasons we delayed this session last week was upon just the full clarity of exactly where that was headed. We worked hard to bring forward something that is as small a property tax request as as possible. I do I am I do think to go any further to reduce the size of the public place of fire proposed increase any further will require public safety cuts, which again is 6 to 0. Thanks that we cannot afford to do it in the in the climate that we're facing right now. In fact, we need to be investing more in this police department rebuilds in FY 25. So with that, I think that's that's an overview. Catherine, I'm going to sign the unexpected address before I hand it over to you. I'll hand it over to you. Great. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. I'm going to jump right in. As the mayor noted, just a little bit of context as we go into our discussion on the FY 25 budget. Since FY 20, when we had our last voter approved increase, there have obviously been a lot of increased costs. And I have had the pleasure of being here this whole time and it has been a lot of changing budget pressures when we got first covid hit. We had no money. We got a lot of federal money as we heard and some state money. And then this third bullet at this point that money is decreasing. We have spent it or it is obligated. And so we have less of it for budget balancing. So unfortunately, we are currently projecting a significant gap in the budget if we did not take action. So this presentation lays out our plan to close the gap. And I will get through this presentation as quickly as I can so we can engage in some meaningful discussion on your reactions. Some of the challenges that the city has overcome since FY 20, there has been a lot that has happened. We'll go through all of it in detail. But of course, covid, we have also faced more than a 17% increase in inflation since FY 20. We have had to rebuild our police officer ranks because we lost 40% of our officers. We've also created a whole host of new public safety resources that we're very proud of, including our CSOs, CSOs and our urban park rangers. We also took this opportunity to make really important investments in equity, including making sure all employees in the city are paid a livable wage, creating the REIB department, language access and others. During this time, we also signed contracts with our four unions. We launched the business and workforce development department and increased the support that we are providing, especially to small businesses. And we have really focused on the unsheltered population, opening new shelters and the community resource center. But as we mentioned, there are a lot of budget challenges that have also played a part in these years. You may recall two years ago in FY 23, we asked for a property tax rate increase, and that was narrowly rejected. You may recall, as the mayor indicated, we had four million dollars of one-time funds last year that we knew that we would need to replace. And in this last bullet, you'll see that we do have $1.7 million in higher personnel costs, just in BPD, a load that FY 20. You will recall all of that had led us to an approximate $9 million budget gap. That's on the general fund budget of approximately $101 billion. And this is our plan for taking action on multiple fronts, and we'll go through them in detail on the next slides. We will, of course, capture what I like to refer to as organic growth in grand list revenues and other taxes. This is the growth we get from new construction happening around town happen anyway. We are reducing our operating costs through our operational efficiency study of all of our non-public safety departments. That's being led by Scott Barker and Karen Derpy, and that's just getting started now. We expect that to save significant money. We are also completing a review and increase of non-property tax revenues and how they can contribute. We are looking to extend for one additional year the last of the one-time funds and, as we've mentioned, increasing the cap on the police and fire tax by three cents. This slide talks about some of that organic growth that I was talking about, and in particular, you'll see we are projecting $300,000 in new property tax revenue growth, and another $600,000 in our gross receipts, local option tax, and franchise fees. Again, this is growth that, based on what we have seen historically, would happen anyway. I'm just calling it out here so you can see how we get to the $9 million and what makes up our solution. The next part is this operational efficiency study that we've been speaking about the last several weeks. We're working with an outside consultant who is studying our largest general fund departments, not including police or fire, and our goal is to reduce spending in those departments by at least $3 million. As the mayor indicated, CEDO is in the midst of its own review, and that is through a government grant that we have been awarded, and that is specifically focusing on their financial sustainability. And importantly, this last bullet, we are not expanding anything in this budget that is not public safety. In terms of raising non-property tax revenues, another study that is just getting underway, and thanks to Cara Oliswari, who will be managing this one, is the user fee study. And these are the fees I've listed here, like art classes, boat slips, campground, things that our constituents pay for only when they use that service. We have not done a comprehensive study of all of our user fees across the city in some time. It's happened across or in various departments, sort of one at a time. So we're having this study conducted so that we can look at it holistically, and we are projecting a 10% increase. And that is, as you can see, $1.3 million a year. We will ensure that youth scholarships and other access work is available. The other item to note here in terms of non-property tax revenue is this increase of the hotel tax. This is just a portion of our overall gross receipts rate. And so we are proposing that this is within Council's authority, that we increase that by 2%, which would raise an additional $1 million a year. We have done the research, a few questions I'm happy to talk to you about them, ensuring that we would still be comparable across the region if that's something we choose to do. But this $1 million by focusing on the hotel tax, the idea being we could kind of share the burden so that Burlington residents were not putting the entire bill, this would be mostly put by visitors. We are proposing $1 million of one-time funds in the FY25 budget that is cut down from the $4 million that we used in this current budget. And then, of course, lifting the police and fire tax cap so that we could add the three cents. This would fully fund both police and fire budgets. It does include $250,000 in a flexible fund for emerging needs for the police. One thing, here we go, the current public safety tax only funds about 45 or only about one-third of all of the needs. As you can see here, there's $34 million in budget from both police and fire. And our current public safety tax only raises about $4.4 million. If you were to add the general city tax, which in theory, of course, should fund more items besides public safety, those two together is only $15 million and it's only 45% of what we're spending in public safety, which is a big part of the reason we're asking for this, so that we can better ensure that the costs that we're paying are adequately borne by the right funding sources. Cover this slide. These are the increased public safety costs since the last tax increase. We talked about the first one, the increased personnel costs for police. There are also increased personnel costs for fire on the second line. The continuing of the recruitment incentives for the police department, this line just over a million dollars, those of you who are on the board of finance saw in a previous presentation some of what makes up those costs and those include things like turnout gear for fire department, increased mental health services for the fire department, IT needs for police. It's very logistical practical items and these are needed because for the past several years we've held every department their operational side of their budget level funded and that has caused some real needs to emerge in both fire and police and just finishing out this chart of course the urban park rangers while they sit in the parks department are part of our public safety efforts and this $250,000 flexible fund. All of that as the mayor indicated is just over four million dollars of these increased costs. Just to tell us more about this flexible fund, the idea here is especially at this point in the budget process, everything we've seen, what we try to do with respect to responding to the public safety challenges, it's not known. This would have resources for things like additional public safety investments that the council wanted to make during the holiday season. This would give some flexibility to Chief Mirad, Mayor and the council in the coming year to try to respond to the challenging public situation, public safety situation that we all get complaints about every day and no grapple. So I think it's important especially at this stage, maybe by the time the budget actually gets passed if I want to commit some of this in different ways, if I wanted to make sure we'd be in a nice administration under the council with flexible resources, dealing with the challenges that are probably seen through the work basis. We are almost done here. This is kind of a summary page of all the items that we've talked about and how we get to the nine million dollars, the organic growth, the city adjusting its budget, increase of user fees, the public safety tax, possible hotel tax, as well as the use of one-time funds. This is the effect on the homeowner of the appraised value on the left-hand column. You can see what they were paying in FY24 and what we would propose they pay in FY25. This only reflects an increase in the police and fire cap. We do know that the debt service tax will rise a little bit and we expect that from the retirement tax as well. Those numbers are not quite finalized. This last slide, which has been modeled on a $351,000 assessed property, which is our current value for a single family and condo, and you can see over time what has happened with both the school rate and the municipal rate. Those dots could happen in FY25 if what we're doing, what has been proposed last week and this week are passed. And with that, I'm happy to take a good question and a discussion. Mr. Governor. Two questions. On the, particularly the police department budget, I'm amassed this a lot. We know we're understaffed, but now we're over budget. Where is the vacancy money in all of these conversations? Yeah, maybe we have an analysis that shows that we can we'll share that as a follow-up. Where the vacancy, the vacancy is now it's the increased cost between the most competitive place in the country. Rebuilding is a lot harder than fixing something that is as hard. There are substantial increased costs and yeah, Catherine will bring it up. Basically, with the current year's budget, we already are spending more than even with the vacancies that were in FY20 and that will continue to grow from here. When I get to the slide, yes. Because it's a perplexing thing to explain. We're spending about 20% more with this budget here between most salaries. Many non-police positions. Two things together and it's now even with the vacancy. Okay, a little whatever. I don't think that just shows if you're down 20 sworn officers, why don't we have that much salary? I think I understand the answer, but I think it's just a question that we get back so far. The other comment, which is if there's a better way to articulate when we get to the bottom line and the increase in municipal tax, because what that means as a relationship to the increase in property tax, because a 4% increase in municipal tax will not mean a 4% increase in property tax. I understand it. I mean, that's right. So would everyone kind of should keep in mind the way we had that chart that shows where you can see the impact that we'll have like your property based on its valuation. I believe the median house is now $398,000 or somewhere actually between the $500,000 house. The municipal property tax has got 30%, 34% of the overall bill that you get comes from the city, but 66% of it is now state tax. It's the state education tax. So this would be a vote here would be a 4% increase on that smaller. Right, but is there a way to articulate that's like 30% or 4%? I mean, I just think I'd like to be able to articulate better that we're asking you for a 4% increase or whatever we're asking, but that really is like a 1.5% increase in property tax. I don't know if we can give you the number of the ways that that would be. I think it would be helpful because I think some news is smaller than a 4% increase in your total. Exactly, that's what I understand. And I think we need a better way to explain this. It's not 4% new taxes. It's whatever it is, one and a half or something like that. Okay. That's a bit dangerous to calculate that way because for some people, they get a substantial income adjustment on the education side that you cannot, that could really mislead some people if you do it on the whole thing and say it's going to be this smaller percentage than other people in municipal tax might be 50% of their tax bill or even more. So I just cautious about that. I wonder if we could go back to the slide summary of actions proposed to balance budget. City like budget adjustments is minus $3. Expectedly increased about 5% of general fund non public safety expenses after operational analysis. So I do not understand how that number is derived, we're saying, but is that just maybe, I think there might be something to take away your question. What does it protect? There's $3 million saved. So up to $9 million. Oh, I thought it was a tax rate. Yeah, sorry. $3 million is not very clear. So $3 million is about 5%. Which if you take out, if you start with 101 million, you take out 34 and then $3 million is 5%. And why do we think that's the right number? And what do when you're talking about any, any, are these cuts to jobs? I mean, they look so benign right here. But I know when we dig into that, we're, we're going to start seeing the pain and anguish of whether or not those are changes that we want to make. And what do we know about the details of that? And why are we confident that's the number? And we can say at this point, it's an annual challenge was the budget is that we need to make some decisions now when we're five months from handling all the details. We are at discuss this argument, the firm that was engaged for this operational study, got some internal analysis to kind of reality, judge this, this goal. And you do think that this is a goal that will, it's, it's realistic, it will involve, it certainly will involve some position elimination, what we think is an achievable total. And we think we have one reason we commissioned the review is knowing we had a tough time to say ahead, but also knowing we have been through a very volatile period in the city's budget where we've been responding to numerous new pressures and new issues that has been reached in and counted for years. And we are coming out of this period of volatility, this period of federal support is the kind of analysis that needs to be done. Now, say numerous department heads are a direct, no one's excited about having made cuts, but people understand the need for it or engage in it. But I think it's, this is going to be a very, a healthy process. So it's, it's not what they'll be without pain, but we do think this is very less the figure we think, you know, given the only alternative is even higher tax increase, we think before cutting in public safety, I think this is. So it's just derived from 5% being the goal, not that we think there's 5% of inefficiency that we can deliver the same services. The goal is how to be best cut 5% and that that well could mean a decrease in services. There could be some decrease in services, yes. At the same time, we'll see to minimize that. Councillor Grant, and then I've got the whole side of the table and then I use my first question is with regards to the money that's been set aside for flexible emergence, emerging expenses related to public safety, why is that only limited to the police department and does not include the fire department? I, my sense, Councillor Grant is that certainly the fire department is playing a key role responding to the challenges we're facing and we have seen a significant increase in the size of the fire department over some years and we are budgeting for substantial overtime. So this is definitely another operational investment. This is a well-funded budget for both police and fires, what we presented before you. And as this gets closer to the passenger budget, if it makes some sense to think about reallocation of some of those funds from that 250, they're flexible at this point. They could be allocated to you in the department. They're not committed to any of that. That's the whole point. I think it's, my gut feelings is more likely that the pressure will be on the kind of enforcement side, but that may not, that gut feeling may not prove to be correct and this would be flexible such that it could be allocated elsewhere. Okay, I think, I really do think it would be best to be clear that it could be emerging expenses from either department given the amount of work being done by both departments. We've certainly seen how nimble the fire department has been during this crisis, waiting for year-end figures, but from January through October of 2023, they responded to 40% of the overdose calls on their own. So we need to acknowledge that and then they're putting up with the community response team. So I'd like to know that they would also have access to those funds should they be needed because they are full on into the community safety issues and addressing those. Now, I believe I've heard that there was going to be a major study around pilot funds, the payment and lieu of taxes. Can I get a reminder of what the schedule for that is? Because if ever we needed to review with those funds and taking a look at the various properties in the city that are paying very low amounts and haven't had an increase in a while or properties that are paying anything and may be needing to reexamine that. Thank you. I'll handle that, Councillor Grant. At one of the intervening board of finance meetings, I provided an update, although I think it went on the consent agenda, that indicated that pilot review is not happening this year. We have indicated it would happen in FY25 and that is simply because we came out of the FY24 budget with a lot of good ideas including that one, but we are a small staff and we can't reasonably handle that, the operational study, the user fee study, the fleet study, the CEDO study. So the pilot review is likely to bring in a lot less revenue and so that one has not been forgotten but has been put on a slightly longer time frame. Okay. Can we just add to that that there was some legal analysis that was for the subset of that CEDS-I's fees which can be confirmed, which had been an area of interest and thought of the next substantial opportunity there and it really isn't. The major payment of the taxes, of course, are which the hospital makes its payment and is covered by a quarter order and that can be shipped back to college. Good. You send out. Councillor Grant, I'm just finishing my sentence. Oh, I'm sorry. Those agreements, we have agreements of place that we either renew on any annual basis or whatever. So I don't think the same reason to think is likely to get a little bit of a major growth in those particular things that are currently stable right now and perhaps that's the staff's time. Sorry, go ahead, Councillor Grant. You have one more question and then there's a bunch of other questions here. Yes. Could we get a current list of the properties that pay pilot funds and are we allowed to see the copies of the agreements? Yes. We'd be happy to provide this to you again. Let's go, I think, Councillor Doherty, you can go ahead. I was just hoping we could return to Senator's original question and maybe Catherine, you would like to go up to that slide on the department that you were having trouble with. I'm sorry. No, no, no, okay. You gave us a tricky slide. And while you're doing that, I mean, I anticipate one of the questions that we're all going to be asked is the question that Councillor Carpenter asked, which is, how are we paying more for our police department when I think the perception of most Burlingtonians is that they're not getting as good a set of services from the police department? In that column called community support, it looks like we have $1.4 or $9 million for our proposed fiscal year 25 budget, whereas we weren't spending any money in that fiscal year 2020 or 2021. That, I did a quick, that is almost all of the increase as much as I can tell. What are the pieces of that community support? Is that our CSOs? The CSOs, the CAIT director. But what director started? CAIT director, it's the money for the PTB cares team that we've been trying to send out. So yeah, I'll let you have salaries. I hope the chance is about, I mean, it's a total of about 15 positions. Plus, sorry. Because we are, this is fully funding at our six CSOs and a supervisor, 11 CSOs and a supervisor, two park rangers, and then cares team, domestic violence, CAIT director, and maybe one or two others. Whereas the whole team, it's a little more than, yeah, but yes, it's maybe 20 people. And before the, we had a director of CAIT and a domestic violence person, and they were both captured under administration and FY 20. So they were probably only two positions. So every other position has been created since FY 20. That's a net 17, 18 bodies that are now on city payrolls. Plus, and keep in mind for the officers, we're paying much more to remain officers than them. Because we're trying to reduce tuition. And then our, so we still have a deficit even below this 87 officer cap that we've gotten plenty of, sell the deficit of 20 or so officers. This budget does not, it's not paying for those new officers. Or is it? That may be a very stupid question. I'm sorry. It pays for some of it. It pays for the continued projected growth of the, of the department through FY 25. What is your project? What is our projected growth and how did we get it? Yeah, it doesn't quite get us to, you know, 87 is where we're trying to get with which attrition that would leave us around 82 or 83 in a functional system. Because there's always going to be some people who are out on leads of some sort or another. And this is five below that. So about 77. But you're not projecting, we're going to get to 77. Budgeting seven. Budgeting four. Yes. And we were on track for that until quite recently last few months that we had current classes. Small, considerably smaller than the prior two classes. Before that, with the rate of the prior two classes, we were tracking against the FY, the rebuilding plan goals. We totally up to that 80 by the end of calendar 25. So so we're budgeting so that we can get back on track that we can pay for it. So our thinking just that I'll let you get back in. But our thinking is there's the consensus from variety sources has been that the CSL's and CSO's are adding a lot of value. They are not at a certain point where we are back up to 82 or beyond these officers and may make sense to ask the question whether we still want to have all of these other questions or not. I think there will be some more analysis done at that time. But that's far from getting to so we are receiving all those resources in here. All right. Let me just have one quick point. With respect to the Unisport cadre, what are the mechanisms? You say that there's sources, you're getting information from a lot of sources that are at value. And I certainly don't dispute that. But certainly with uniform police officers, there are rubrics in which you measure their productivity rightly or wrongly. Do we have the same rubrics for these folks? Yes, I know. You know, whether they're actually providing the value of the need to track their calls that they respond to and they're taking assistance calls. Now, I believe it's been a size about 15 percent of the calls are being fielded by a CSO or a CSL. That's one way to measure some productivity. The chief has been sent on those before. We could start to get that capped and get up the next week. But it's a fair question. And we are figuring out how do you use these resources? Certainly CSL right now are helping us with challenging situations. And they can't let factory parks themselves are part of the response that they've got coming. But I think it's a fair question that we are in the early years of having this kind of capacity. I think we ought to be measuring what they respond to and they can't do. We had an example of a CSO statement that said they were prohibited exercising a trespass order, which might have been appropriate, but they weren't allowed to do it. So I think I just would suggest we look at are the things they might be that we're not letting are negative questions asked. I'm sorry to get stressed. I just cited an example where CSL responded, but they were prohibited from exercising a trespass order. To be clear, as I think, we believe we got to get back under officers as quickly as we can. And in many situations, an officer clearly can do things, is authorized to do things out of the vehicle or do things as the tools and training do things that CSOs and CSOs cannot do. And this whole effort has been, however, there are certain public safety tasks, certain tasks that we're probably supposed to do that can't be done by the professionals. And that is probably great. And that's why they're continuing to be at the budget. When we get to the point where we get to have a luxury of making that choice, we may decide who went off to service. I'm going to keep moving. Councillor Bergman and then Councillor McGee. I'm going to echo what Councillor Carpenter said about getting more detail on the actual dollar tax increase. I don't need a question. There's not a question as much as a request. I think it's really important. And the same is in regard to what Councillor Shannon said in terms of the details on operational cuts. It's absolutely essential that we have clarity about that. I want to be clear, Councillor Bergman, let's engage that we are not going to have details by the time that we need to make a decision on voting. I don't mean to cut you off, but I just feel like this important thing, like the nature of this, the way the time we need to process works is. So understood as much as you possibly can in terms of the work that you have done today would be, okay, all I could ask for, right? And I think that sharing, so maybe you don't have to answer that because of the people, but the percentage and the dollar amounts that you are going to have in the unassigned fund balance, I know we've got like, there's a range and there's a bottom number in that we actually were not at the bottom this year. You and I have a fight about that. I want to just know the dollar amounts and the percentage that we're at. Okay. Fair work, Councillor Neill. I will just, I think it's an important question. When the $1 million one-time fund projected here is what we think, we think there's a way to do that without further reduction of the unassigned fund balance. Just to be clear, we are not, we were using other one-time funds. I'm all in favour of as much for any day funds as possible. But, and on the franchise fee, would you please share that legal opinion that you alluded to? That would be very helpful. And I wonder if you have any don't need any detail on that, but the right to raise local option taxes above what we've, what we've got them as well as I know that we have the right to increase gross receipts. So on both of those, one is state law and so that is one of authority. But for both gross receipts and the local option, just when you've looked at them in relationship to competition and that what you have found that would be very helpful because I support the hotel increase. And I'm wondering whether we actually have a little bit more than just the growth of people spending under what we've got to raise that, but I don't know that for a fact. And the last question, and I guess this is a question, if we had the flexible pot of money for, right now, what might we have used it for? Right. Well, for example, it would have been this year when the council felt urgency to respond to the concerns around the holidays and the desire for more of a policy if you presence at the holidays, we're able to use funds to match the private donation that came in. Those darker funds are going to be there next year. So that was $50,000 that we got. So it's exactly that kind of thing that I would want to add. If there are other examples, I think that that would be helpful. That's $250,000, how much of the tax? It's about half the bank. Yeah. So it's not insignificant and I think it would be very helpful if we could sell this. Thank you. Yeah. Other things that we have used just, I don't know if we should move on, but we have had contracts with other law enforcement agencies during this period. There's downsides of that, but if you have relied on that at times, like the state police, there's a number of examples that might be correct. We obviously paid for them through what we budgeted before. So it's sort of like if this is new and set aside, that explanation would be very, very helpful for us to be able to provide and to know ourselves. Thank you. Councilor McGee. Councilor Travers. And then we'll go to Councilor Hightower. I know Councilor Powell was after, what are you going next? After Councilor McGee, you're right. I said that earlier. I apologize. Are you good? So let's go to President Powell. So three questions. When you talk about revenues on and that chart is a good example. The chart is an important one just to add up with the wealth. My first question is, when it comes to revenues that come into BPD, because there is now six officers of the airport instead of eight, I said that they're paying less. So that's been reflected in Trump's opening amount of revenue that is on that chart, which we had. Yes. And I'll just say we have had six, for FY24, we've had six officers at the airport and I've just heard that we are able to increase that to seven. And so that is an outstanding question that I still have. So these are the kinds of operational details that we'll be able to maintain the seventh officer there by increasing revenue. So I'll make sure that's clear. If you go back to that slide 14 out of 17, the one that shows the nine billion. So one of the things that's on there is remaining funds one million. Now, I remember, I don't remember exactly why, but I remember a quarter of a finance meeting having this conversation. I think it was Mr. Yang who asked about remaining ARPA funds. And we were told at the time that there are no remaining ARPA funds. So how did a million dollars of ARPA funds, and I, you know, I know at one point there was a early on, I think I remember first about the funds monies, there was a spreadsheet on that. What are the, how, how did you find a hundred and a hundred? How did you find a million dollars of ARPA funds? We haven't. That's not all. But where we are now is we, the number does change over time because we, you know, it's $27 million. Of course, we had a various commitments of that, those funds, and then not all of the commitments we make end up costing as much as we initially projected. We put aside hundreds of thousands of dollars for further COVID response that ended up not all being necessary. So in a recent review, we do believe just getting ready for tonight. And the last couple, this work and moving towards this decision, most urgent, the review we've been doing in recently series for this has confirmed that there's about 400 or more than $400,000 of funds that are going to come back and be available again. It is, I believe we have some other strategies that we can take that are not on a sign of fund balance that are not dipping in on their sign of fund balance that will allow us to increase that further. So, you know, we're looking at this hard decision, like all of you, in saying people can't afford property taxes. I believe there's got to be a way to go from the $400,000 that we know we haven't available one-time funds to $2 million over the coming months. And that's worth it. We're going to be able to do here, but that will rest and we're going to have to consider. But we don't have all of that a billion identified fully then. Well, I would like to see if there is a spreadsheet that shows some of this money, how this, I mean, it's just such a large amount given the fact that we've been spending, we just did the ARPA funding of what was it, $2.9 million last week. So, I actually thought that that was all there was that was left. So, I guess I'd sort of like to know how that, how we can arrive on that, because those are one-time funds, which means that next year all things remaining equal, that $1 million will not be there. And, you know, the use of one-time monies is always a dangerous thing to do. I think we just need to be transparent about the fact that a 3% tax increase, a 3% tax increase is one thing. But, you know, these are the ways that we're finding a way to do that. And then the other, the only other question I had at this point was, and I think actually Tim, you would ask that question. I think Councilor Doherty had asked the number of officers that all of this is geared to is 77. Is that right? I will send an email tomorrow to make sure that I have that right with the Chief and Jim. That is my understanding. Yes. Okay. And that's not a, that's not a number of like effective. That's the actual payroll is based on 77. Correct. Okay. Because we have to pay that. Yes. Yes, we do. Okay. All right. Well, that's, okay. That's it for me for now. I mean, I'm going to need to know a little bit more before I can comfortably put on those. Thank you. Thank you. That's what I call. Here's what we've got about 15 minutes left before I think we're going to go upstairs. I've got kind of finished the first round of questions. I got Councilor Travers and then Councilor Hightower on a second round. Councilor Shannon, Councilor Cran. I've got a queue going now if anyone else wants to be on the queue. I'll put you at the end of the first round, Councilor Barlow. Start working it down. I got it. I've got it. Sorry, I don't mean to skew it off. Not like this in the board of finance. Councilor Travers, go ahead. Thanks. I'll be quick because it's sort of thinking back to what's going on folks have said. In terms of being able to visualize the actual tax increase here, we've already locked into our 13.97% increase. I think voters are going to look at this as a all-aided package. You have to sit together. How much they mean it's less school tax and increased property taxes. So I think it'll be helpful for us to see if it is for students. What is the all-in for a voter that wants to vote yes on both of those items? And I would be curious to see, even if we remove this 4% down to 2%, I mean, nothing. What sort of impact does that actually have on property tax stills? Because I suspect that given that the school budget is too fair to property taxes that it may not, I mean, taxes or taxes, but it may not move the needle all that much, unfortunately. Council Berman raised some questions that I had where I think I could go for some additional education and information on what are our current gross receipts tax, current local option taxes, how much revenue are we currently generating from those gross receipts and local option taxes. I'm assuming that in terms of gross receipts, most of it comes from hotel, motel, restaurant and short-term rentals. I know we have that as an incident, especially since tax is largely not getting much from the carnivals. Well, I guess if we could see sort of the forward picture of that, because if there is any flexibility for us to tweak some of these gross receipts, the local option taxes more than property taxes, my own preference would be to head in that direction and may even Council Berman's might be willing to do a little bit more in terms of hotel, motel or even restaurants. I would just be curious to see if you did an analysis of those same taxes as compared to the region as to how gross it is in alignment with that. And then just the last question is whether or not are there any gross receipts taxes out there that take off gross in the state of gross that's not taking advantage of all the beverages tax for some municipalities in the state? Maybe on one other stand-up, maybe it's because they're off gross and they're chartered, they do so in a way that we're not, but we just be curious to see if there's anything that we're not taking advantage of to relax with their term in addressing these issues. I really can't help but question all this and we'll follow up on that. I would just say it was short to get some of that comparative discussion on the gable to tell for this discussion. When we say that the hotel tax is competitive recently, really what is being said there is versus their major destination cities that we can provide, for example, that how we are we're still even with this decision on 2%, although I'm not aware of those other major cities are, we will be higher than our surrounding municipalities if we, if we are already at really one point higher than that, which is higher than most of our school ads about, which does cause some concern, but we think we're forcing it because we think it's a viable round. When we have looked at the other food for sheets taxes, those are taxes that hit for Ontolians to a much higher degree. First of all, and secondly, there, you can't make the same argument about Vermont and Burlington being low compared to not only our neighbors, but other regions as well. What do you think we're about to max there? It'd be helpful for details though, please. Yes, I just give you the details and I'm previewing for you just so you think I don't think there's any specific answers there. This is going to be painful and we'll be on, you know, the various folks are unhappy about it, but I think there's a justification for it. I've never, years of looking at this, I've not seen the same justification for others. Okay, you were done, Councillor Drivers. This is, I don't know how this would enable this, right, but I know that the eclipse, you know, you look at hotel rates out there, they're going for, you know, seven, eight times the level, right? I'm just curious. Yes, and some other questions, you know, and as you know we have additional costs, I think it would be really useful to have, and I know you broke it down by, like, officers versus not, but I'd really like to see, like, I mean, I kind of put, like, the sworn officers and the CSOs into one bucket in terms of, like, the, what services they provide in terms of the, what services they provide, and then I'd like to see some of the preventive services that we're adding in a different bucket just so I'm understanding what bucket of money is going to maintain and what bucket of money is going to new services that the city wasn't providing before. And so if you could either break those out, like, totally by class or at least break those out into those two buckets, that would be really helpful for me to see. Okay, the data may not be easily kind of, kind of, in our system that way, but we will do our best to have your responses that way. Thank you. That's far. Thanks. I'm going to ask my question about hotels. I also would like to see more detail, not about major destinations, but about other sort of regional neighbors, because I do think a lot of people visiting Burlington do stay in hotels and so forth, and I want to see, I'd like to see that. The other thing I had a question about was in the board of finance presentation, you're talking about a $2 million decrease in general fund expenses after the operational analysis, and now we're at $3 million, there's like a 50% increase, and I understand that analysis has to be done in order for us to understand what's possible. But I'm wondering how much variability still there is there to offset some of these big increases. So yeah, I'm interested and I understand we're not going to have it to make some of these decisions, but it does seem like it's a really fluid number still. It is a fluid number. The post-pandemic budgeting has been more fluid than it used to, and hopefully we're still not out of that. The $3 million, we did talk about, well, when we last talked about the board of finance we had $2 million, then we said we still have $1 million to find. So we have essentially collapsed that into one number, and it is my sense, given the pressures that our constituents are under that we need to find reductions that that needs to drive our decision making. And again, we have backed that up with some reality checking in a sense that that is a number, it's your path to getting to that number. But it is a goal that we are targeting out of need as well. It turns out when you get the CEDA study back that there's $4 million, it's important to say, and I think it's important to use your constituents because we have a track record on this. This would be lifting up the cat. The actual decision to raise the taxes by that amount is not made by the vote, it could be made by council, action, administration, action following June. And many years, I believe four or five of the years of the budget that I've been responsible for, we have been able to keep the actual taxation level low, substantially low, the maximum cap, and that may end up for exactly that reason. When you get into the details sometimes things do break in our way and you more revenues come in in other ways, you know, it's not needed. So this definitely will be just able to increase the cap and we will not need to use all of it. I see you think lastly then the operational analysis, I know just again, do we have any kind of estimate on how long it will take and when will that report on how it will work into a different level? I will have an update for you next week, because I believe our time frames could have shifted a little bit. So I'll check in a bit, Karen. That's all I had. Okay, next I had a second round of hands that we got first Councillor Shannon and then Councillor Grant. That's all I have right now. I am going all the way back to Councillor Burden's comments about, you know, what are we getting additional on what is, you know, kind of what we already know that we need. So we've made $100,000 for extra security just at the holidays. What else, you know, how much did we pay for the state beliefs in just the first six months of 2024 budget? Because it's not, you know, with our current staffing levels, we know that we have to subsidize that. So it would be good to be budgeting for what we know we need. It's not something new or something extra. And I wonder what the gross receipts projections are, because we're definitely feeling in our downtown that the public safety situation is impacting traffic downtown. So what, how do we, you know, what, what are the assumptions here? Very much. We get you an update on that. In general, the gross receipts have been very strong, which has been a little bit out of line, but that's a little bit of a discussion about what's happening or, you know, hotel prices are up dramatically and that is very great help. So we hope we get you the data. Yeah, I just want to make sure that we are budgeting for all of the various forms of security that we've had by the security police, whatever else I may not be thinking of. Great. Okay. Councilor James. Councilor Grant, go ahead. Thank you. I am also interested in some of those numbers with regards to what we've spent already. I would like to also take a little bit of an issue with something that was said with regards to the difference between what a police officer can do versus what the CSOs or the CSLs can do. With regards to the CSLs, it works the other way around as well and that an officer can't do the same work that they do. One of the things that I've heard over and over and over again the last two years is that officers weren't trained to deal with the numerous mental health issues that they're running into. They just didn't have the training for that. So I hope that we are very mindful of that. My other comment is with regards to those two positions, it's been very difficult to get data on a consistent basis. We know, based on the priority response plan, what types of incidents they would be responding to, but in terms of quantifying that, that should really be on the Chief's monthly report. It's not right away to make that happen because that data is going to be super important when we start to make these decisions. Thank you. Okay. Thank you, Councilor Grant. Okay, Councilor Janning. Sorry if you've been trying to get them before I haven't seen you. You have the last question and we've got to get upstairs and it's really good. Thank you. And thank you, Joe McGee also for letting CFO Chad know. Yes, initially I was against the city to go to review basically the budget of the of the Wellington Police Department, but I now change my mind and I think the assessments being contemplated right now with all the department receiving general fund budget should now include the Police Department because it seems from my perspective, we just been focusing on rebuilding, rebuilding, rebuilding, and not really assessing the level of resources that the Wellington Police Department actually needs to operate. We still have five months and I know we definitely do have some RFP out there to review all the departments and I am advocating for the city to consider including the Wellington Police Department. That's just my request and also if we cannot do it, I think we need to do a second one that's very specific to an organization with knowledge and expertise about public safety in order to assess what level of resources that they need one to rebuild and also two to operate. Just a request that I'm putting right now forward. Thank you. Okay. Thank you, Councillor Chang. We will have to leave it there. Thank you everyone. These are great questions. If you have further questions that you think of and want to share with us by email, we would love us to respond to all of this and they come to see by email so that you have a complete packet for before it's coming Monday night. It's coming Monday night really is the deadline for getting items on the ballot so we do anticipate this being on the next Monday's meeting. Anything else that we haven't discussed today that would be helpful to you? We'll try to get you. Thank you everyone and we are adjourned and see you growing up. Sorry, it's going upstairs. We're not adjourned. We're relocated. I have to see the same person. Are you going in person? No, I'm in line of work. I'm driving in. I'm almost downtown. Okay. Thank you. All right. I'm going to sign off. Okay. Yeah, 70. No, we want to put that on there because we can't it's it won't shut off so I'm going to like unplug it or something. Okay, all right. Is his name Saul? Is what? Is his name Saul? I don't know. St. Louis street? Yeah, I mean I don't because there's one number 70. 70? Yeah, he doesn't know if he's physically fit out there but that's not the guy who yeah I know that's not um uh that's not uh the person. There should be someone who who's someone who is a good evening. Thank you for joining us in person in Contoy's auditorium and for those of you who are joining us online. Before we get to public forum there seems to be a something coming back. I'm not sure why that is. Do you know why that do you know why that is that it's reverberating like that? No? Okay. We've completed items one and two on our agenda which we did downstairs and the next item is 3.1 which is the second public hearing on proposed charter change amendments for March 5 2024 annual meeting. This is required by state law. We hold two public hearings on charter amendments to welcome comments from the public before we vote on them to be placed on the town meeting day ballot. Before we go and open the public hearing Attorney Pellerin if you could give us a description on the item that's remaining and then also if you can just inform us of what happened on the um at our last meeting with the other charter amendment. Thank you President Paul um can you still hear me should I hold off or just speak loudly? I'm not really yeah mine got mine went off as well. Thank you um sorry about that. So yes as you mentioned state law requires the city to hold two public hearings if we are proposing a charter change the city council has taken action to place on the ballot a question for the public to consider which would allow BED or the electric department to increase its evolving line of credit from 5 million to 10 million and section 303 of the city charter provides the council to authorize the chief administrative officer to pledge that credit um it's temporary borrowing and anticipation of revenues by the Burlington Electric Department and again that's a increase of 5 million dollars so it's from 5 million to 10 million and the language is on board docs if anyone would like to see it um and then additionally the council was considering a charter change regarding police oversight and at the last meeting council has moved to recommend that charter change proposal go back to the Burlington Police Commission for further review and evaluation along with council input and that it comes back to the council with a recommendation in June of 2024. Thank you very much attorney Pellerin um if there is anyone here we will open with so we will open the public hearing um if there is anyone present who wishes to speak at this time please raise your hand and you're welcome to come forward if there is anyone joining us online who wishes to speak during the public public hearing uh just simply use the raise hand function and I will find you okay this is for the public um this is for the public hearing on the proposed charter amendment so there is someone who has raised her hand online and I have enabled your microphone so you should be able to speak and if you could just identify yourself for the record you just need to unmute on your end. I think I raised my hand for the wrong thing I'm sorry I'm uh I'm sorry it's for the it's for the next uh okay that's fine if you if you wish to speak during that um during the public forum I will give you the instructions on how to do that um thanks so much for letting me know thank you thank you if there's anyone else who wishes to speak during the public hearing now would be that time close the public hearing at 655 and those items will be voted the the charter amendment that will be voted on in our next meeting on January 29 is that correct you've already moved to place that item on the ballot so it doesn't need to be voted on unless the council is seeking to make any changes to the proposed language as a result of the hearings that were held or further communication you've received from the public great thank you very much yes so we've closed that public hearing and we'll now go on to item number four which is the public forum before we begin public forum we have many people that are here this evening who wish to speak some potentially for the first time I'd like to note that we do have a protocol for public forum and I speak for the full city council as we all share a strong commitment to an orderly process and one let honors all voices and respectful discourse we have rules that can be found in appendix b of our code of ordinances and as this is a very large gathering we will follow our rules exactly in order to respect all voices if you wish to speak during public forum we have a hybrid system if you wish to speak in person there are forms that are to my right in the not quite the back corner but I see somebody who actually is signing up there's a table to my right you must complete a form before speaking there will be no exceptions to this rule please complete the form by using your full name and please write clearly you will notice that there are two four two colors of forms we have one form for burlington residents and we have another for non burlington residents please leave the form on the table in the boxes and they will be collected all forms are numbered and to the best of my ability you will be called on in the order of the number on your form while we were downstairs lori elberg our clerk went and put them in numeric order so they are exactly in the order in which you in which you signed up if you wish to speak during and I will get to how you how you register if you're online for for those who are in con choice we have a timer system that is in the table in front of me it has three lights on it the green light will shine when you begin speaking the second yellow light when you have 30 seconds left and the last is a red light that will shine when your time is up please complete your sentence when the sound and light indicate that your time is up so that everyone has the same amount of time and we can keep the public forum moving along in order to give everyone equal time please do not continue with any further comments after the after the sound and light has shown that your time is up and I will need to interrupt you at the two minute mark I prefer not to so please if you could just wrap up your comments when you hear when you hear the the noise of the the buzzer if you're joining us online we do have a timer system that we will set up on zoom we don't have a light system but when your two minutes is up and the clock runs down to zero please complete your comments as I said during or actually I don't know if I did we we did not get onto how you register as a not if you are joining us on zoom there is a form if you go to burlington vt.gov forward slash uh city council forward slash public forum you go to that and there will be a form that will come up please populate the form and all of your answers will come into a spreadsheet that I have in front of me and I will call on you in the order in which you have registered as per the council rules which again can be found in appendix b of our code of ordinances burlington residents will have first priority to speak we will go to burlington residents in con toys who have submitted a form in person then to burlington residents online who have submitted an online form we normally would then go to non burlington residents um who may also be a burlington property owner or those representing organizations in person but since we have so many people wanting to speak um and we may or may not be able to get to everyone as per the decision of the council we will go to burlington property owners and those representing an organization in person then those online then we will go to burlington non burlington residents in person and then back to our online non burlington residents if you are a non burlington resident but are a burlington property owner or representing a burlington organization if you can please let the clerk know if you've already filled out a form please let the clerk know if you can just come forward and i'll make sure that you're recognized right after burlington residents again we have a large number of people who wish to speak during public forum please um please keep in mind if you wish if you have registered to speak and when your name is called if you wish to yield your time as others have already spoken and expressed your thoughts you will be recognized and you can just say that your thoughts have been expressed we see you and we will note your support for the sentiment that others have expressed i will call several names at a time to give people time to prepare and if you're upstairs please come down so that we can keep the public forum moving along so this is very important as well please during public forum please use respectful language we would like to remind everyone here this evening and everyone that's joining us online that there are families who watch our city council meetings as their connection to their community and their connection to civic engagement parents use this forum to teach our city's children about city government and we expect everyone to refrain from using profanity our protocol is in place to remind everyone in person that disruptions will not be tolerated you can show your support for our speaker's comments by simply doing this and we will see you if you do this we will see you we're a governmental body representing the city of burlington and we have business to conduct and we'll do this in a calm and deliberative way when you come up to speak please face me and direct your comments to me as the chair and not to anyone else at this table nor to the audience gathered behind you please do not personalize your comments this rule will be enforced again we want to hear what you have to say and we will listen much more intently if you are if you are if you speak respectfully with that we will begin the public forum with burlington residents who are joining us in person the first speaker is jordan weiner to be followed by helen scott and then naomi borrell yes councillor councillor travers yeah president ball to your point i understand that our council rules public forum is normally limited to 90 minutes in order to provide as many people an opportunity to speak i would like to go ahead and and make a motion to suspend our rules now to extend public forum to double it until 10 p.m three hours a motion has been made to extend our public to suspend our rules and to have the public forum go until 10 p.m is there a second to that i would second that okay yeah there's something not quite with the microphone and i would just ask a point of information of the city attorney to see will this preclude if we are not done with public forum at 10 o'clock will this preclude us from re um you're suspending the rules voting on that um to extend the public forum attorney pellerin you could take a vote for reconsideration so i guess that answers your question based on that year you you want to second that motion okay so a motion to suspend our rules requires a two-thirds vote i also wanted to note that councillor jang and councillor hightower both joining us via zoom um so is there any discussion on that motion seeing none we'll go to a vote all those in favor of the motion to suspend our rules and and have public forum go until 10 p.m please say aye okay is there anyone opposed please say no that motion passes unanimously so the public forum which is starting now will uh will continue until 10 p.m so again we we had uh georgian information uh yes councillor jang thank you president paul and in addition to calling the name of the people can you also call the number in which they sign up on to speak i i'm i'm happy to do that councillor jang but what um so these are the forms on each one of these forms there is a number in the corner of each form so these numbers are in alphabetical order i'm happy to show them to somebody else i know that you're not here with me in person um i have shown these to other city councillors who have seen that they are in order i will be joining you shortly but i was just wondering if you can call the number as well if it is not burdened okay sure i'm happy to do that thank you thank you so much sure so the first person is not it's number one jordan weiner to be followed by number two uh helen scott and number three naomi berelle uh you are jordan yes jordan weiner weiner thank you good evening my name is jordan weiner and i'm a burlington resident and i believe the apartheid free pledge should absolutely be placed on the ballot i'm also a jew who lost family in the holocaust and whose legacies are daily tarnished by the genocidal state of israel i'm here to express my opposition to the attempt to restrict democracy in burlington by the zionist faction of the city council the palestine solidarity movement surpassed the number of required signatures to get our measure on the ballot demonstrating that there is popular support for this measure the zionist faction in burlington is understandably afraid that their cause will fail miserably in the eyes of the public so they are refusing to let voters decide at all i want to talk about statements made against putting the pledge on the ballot um this zionist councilor believes that no good can come of this ballot measure and it won't contribute to solving israel's war on palestinians yet somehow doing nothing will for over 75 years israel has put palestinians in concentration camps arrested them held them in jail killed them indiscriminately raped them raised their villages and homes limited their freedoms because they're palestinians their israel's elected leaders have admitted openly to genocidal intent and i'm not going to waste my time showing how israel's conduct is akin to nazism because the similarities are so obvious that anyone who denies this is either historically clueless or themselves a fascist sympathizer instead i would like to pose a question to the zionist faction on city council when the nazis were sending their death squads to murder jews romany queer people and political opponents would you also have blocked a ballot measure allowing burlington citizens to vote on supporting the victims if your answer is no drop your opposition if it is yes you disgrace all those murdered by the nazis and the tens of thousands of palestinians including over 12 000 children martyred by the state of israel free palestine there will there will be no clapping if you want to express your support for the person who just spoke please do so this way i'm sorry if you press the green button that's on the microphone right in front of you then you'll have the microphone enabled please go ahead thank you my name is helen scott i'm a burlington resident the apartheid free burlington resolution is authored and endorsed by jewish christian muslim and secular individuals and groups we have followed the democratic process for bringing it to the ballot now some opponents seek to violate that process and keep the measure from a public vote we are currently seeing a pattern of censorship of criticism of israel why is this happening now israel is committing crimes against humanity the majority of the public here and across the world are horrified but most of the u.s. political establishment continues to lend unconditional support to israel south africa's application to the international court of justice records and documents in excruciating detail israel's ongoing genocide and notes it is important to place the acts of genocide in the broader context of israel's conduct towards palestinians during its 75 year long apartheid its 56 year long belligerent occupation of palestinian territory and its 16 year long blockade of gaza including serious and ongoing violations of international law and other war crimes and crimes against humanity the political establishment is trying to silence anyone who speaks about this and they are trampling on our democratic rights in the process the council should put the resolution on the ballot but whatever happens here we will not be silenced this is a question of democracy and of humanity thank thank you so much our next speaker is Naomi borrell to be followed by david getty's and alisa chen and uh spencer carot carofsky good evening good evening i just want to clarify i'm actually here to represent an organization in burlington so if you'd like me to be bumped to a later i had just let the clerk know um so if you want to bump me to a later point i will so are you a burlington resident i'm a charlotte resident okay well unfortunately you'll need to wait right so if i can get bumped to that yes thank you uh david getty is to be followed by uh alisa chen and spencer carofsky and maya sobel i'm david getty's award five resident and president elect of temple sinai i urge a no vote first the resolution is factually incorrect distorts history and employs inflammatory language israel is the one democratic jewish state surrounded by 22 arab dictatorships the resolution holds israel to a double standard demonizes and delegitimizes israel the resolution seems written by an extremist who gets all their information from tiktok such vilification of israel is unreasonable unjust and unamerican second speaking is the president elect of temple sinai since the massacre of 11 jews praying at the tree of life synagogue and many other antisemitic attacks around the country we have had to install electronic door locks with video cameras bulletproof glass to protect our children surveillance cameras inside and outside and create safe rooms a rabbi and executive director are in regular contact with the police in the fbi they wear fobs around their neck to summon the police if needed we bring in outside security for all large events we spend tens of thousands of dollars in security due to the anti wave of antisemitism we would prefer to spend this money on social justice issues in the burlington area putting this petition on the ballot where we'll energize extremists and divide our community we don't want anti-israel and antisemitic signs along our streets activists spreading antisemitic propaganda door to door anti-israel demonstrations making church street an unsafe place for jews and signs and store windows basically saying no jews served and imagine a store displaying an israeli flag only to find its windows broken the next morning our own little crystal knot here right here in burlington i implore you to be the adults in the room hold up a high moral standard and vote no thank you very much um that was um number four number five is alisa chen to be followed by uh number six spencer korofsky alissa good evening my name is alissa chen i'm a member of jewish voice for peace and i stand firmly against genocide and apartheid and say not in our name i'm going to share in a few a series of zionist arguments um that i've heard around burlington with regards to this ballot measure um argument number one having this on the ballot is going to create a rise in antisemitism just want to say that this conversation is going to happen in our community whether or not the city council creates a civic venue for it israel slaughtering and committing genocide in the name of jewish people has certainly contributed to a rise of antisemitism the association of jewish people with this inhumane war machine does not give us a good name ignoring this genocide and this apartheid will not help reduce antisemitism stopping it will argument number two why are we singling out israel there are innumerable wars we could comment on we should just take care of city business slavery ended because northerners got involved apartheid in south africa ended because of a global bds movement the holocaust ended because many countries including the u.s intervened we have a particular responsibility to stop this genocide and to stop this apartheid because of the billions we spent on israel instead of supporting local communities like burlington this war has an exceptionally high death rate and especially high death rate for kids um more kids were killed in the first three weeks of this war in gaza than in all global conflicts since 2019 at that point three thousand kids had died now over 10 000 children have been killed argument number three yes i am critical of israel but it's going too far to call it a settler colonial project zionism has been and will continue to be a violent colonial project from its inception and even before it started in its planning in his book the jewish state father of modern political zionism theodore herzel talks about whether to colonize isle argentina he says in both countries important experiments and colonization have been made though on the mistaken principle of gradual infiltration of jews an infiltration is bound to end badly it continues till the inevitable moment when the native population feels threatened thank you very much allow this to go on the ballot number six uh spencer korowski to be followed by number seven maya sobel to be followed by number eight uh sofina leet leet good evening members of the berlington city council as a jewish student at the university of vermont i'm appalled that there's yet another resolution defaming israel shouldn't this council focus on relevant issues such as rampant homelessness crime and drug use happening in berlington instead of a geopolitical conflict happening over 5000 miles away that doesn't make any sense israel is a thriving democracy in the most violent volatile region of the planet it objectively is the most progressive nation in the middle east so why is it being targeted by self-proclaimed progressives the answer is simple it's the only jewish country or as they'll refer to jews zionists those in favor of this resolution do not truly care about palestine if they did they would express a similar level of outrage towards each of building a massive walled keep cousins out of the country fully equipped equipped with razor wire if they did they would be outraged at not a single air of country one of the taken palestinian refugees if they did they would be outraged at homos and during israel on october 7th killing 1200 people kidnapping over 250 raping burning alive and cutting off the breasts of israelis which caused israel to enter the gauze strip in the first place these people have no regard for human rights they are purely virtue signaling and it shows and unlike 99 percent of them i've been to the middle east most recently i studied abroad and tell of you israel i've visited judaea and samaria i've witnessed this conflict as i've had to run to a bomb shelter because homos fired rockets at me this is a mizaza made out of a piece of an iron dome that intercepted a homos rocket aimed at an israeli farm it symbolizes what israel has to put up with this is what israelis have to deal with a population that carries a naughty like hatred towards jews so much so that they'll launch tens of thousands of rockets at israelis in attempt in an attempt to kill them this is why i urge this legislative body to vote no on adding this to the ballot thank you for your time and consideration thank you very much our next speaker is myisopal number seven and josephina leit number eight and number nine is max abraham's good evening hello my name is myisopal and i'm an israeli american jew i've been an active member in this community in fighting antisemitism over the years and i am proud to have advised the biden harris administration on developing our nation's first ever strategy to combat antisemitism i understand that many people showed up today because they are tired of seeing horrifying images of war in the media anybody with a heart can understand that tens of thousands of innocent civilians being killed is heartbreaking the problem occurs when people narrow the frame and place full blame on the world's only jewish country israel is not perfect by any means just like every other country it harbors hatred and discrimination but what about the palestinian leadership who has rejected proposals multiple times because of having their own state because they resent their jewish neighbors the original british mandate for palestine included land today known as jordan yet jordan is still being is not being held to the same standards palestinian leadership asked for jew free land and they succeeded in 2005 israeli army ripped its own citizens from their homes unilaterally withdrawing from gaza and we were thanked with non-stop missiles ever since because apparently jews were not wanted anywhere two million arabs livas is really still citizens with full and equal rights they are doctors politicians lawyers and valiant members of society on the other hand 130 jews are still being held hostage in gaza the youngest just turned one years old last week everyone loves to ignore that the founders of khamas are billionaires who live safely in their luxurious qatari mansions while putting their own civilians on the front line of war as human shields for to gain sympathy placing military bases within the same buildings and underneath hospitals homes and schools is a violation of the geneva convention khamas themselves hides in miles of underground tunnels while aiming 14 000 rockets at israeli civilians the fact that israel invests their money in the iron dome to protect their civilians while khamas leadership spends four and eight to further their own positions speaks volumes we shouldn't have to let our people be mass murdered for you to care about the fact that a globally recognized terrorist organization wants us all dead they showed their true colors on october 7th and have promised to repeat it as many times as possible in order to achieve their goal of annihilating all jews thank you thank you very much our next speaker is number eight josephine elite to be followed by number nine max abraham's and number ten ashley smith um josephine hi i'm josephine elite and i'm a first year at the university of vermont and before i speak on this resolution at hand i want to acknowledge the pain and sorrow on both sides of this war israeli's murdered raped and kidnapped and so many innocent palestinians lost but i'd also like to point out how disingenuous it seems the burlington city council is sitting here thousands of miles away from this issue and allowing it to divert their time from issues affecting their citizens safety and civic needs there are issues right outside that door that need your attention this resolution will bring no benefits to the burlington city stick to championing for the people of burlington stay away from matters outside your jurisdiction this resolution will not bring peace it will bring division into the city if you vote yes to this resolution you are knowingly causing tensions to rise in the city don't fall for buzzwords listen to facts and focus on healing burlington and i would like to use the rest of my time to say how appalled i am that people are bringing up the holocaust do not use other genocides to describe this one i have been oh we're not gonna we're not gonna tolerate that this one that i personally do not see it is a horrible horrible horrible situation and i cry for my palestinian sisters and brothers but i want to say i have been to poland i have visited concentration camps and do not say that is what litter is gaza and the west bank i have been in the west bank and i have seen the arab villages there do not tell me what is there i have seen it with my own eyes thank you thank you our next speaker is number nine max abraham's to be followed by number 10 ashley smith and number 11 uh britta uh britta fischer um good evening please go ahead hello my name is max abram's i'm a uvm student and a very active member of the jewish community on the campus from a young age i have learned about the tensions in the middle east for the first 20 years of my life i was always one degree away from the conflicts continuously learning but never experienced them that changed on october 7th 2023 on that day hamas militants launched an attack into the state of israel murdering 1200 innocent mothers fathers sons daughters as well as kidnapping another 240 more including now one-year-old kefir bibas that day the conca the conflict came to me as my israeli family ran to safe rooms and my friends were deployed in a war they don't want to fight since then i have watched as the number of anti-semitic acts has risen around the world including here in burlington i have been told time and time again that my israeli brothers and sisters lies do not matter that the world will be better off without them i have watched around the world as jews and misleading as words and misleading social media narratives are used to delegitimize israel and vilify the jewish community as a whole i pray for days of reconciliation and peace ahead and i hope that my fellow residents of burlington will be active partners in a lasting peace between israel and gaza and mutual respect here at home with that being said i want to ask the burlington city council one question why are you wasting our time and resources on a resolution that will have no effect there are other things the city council could be doing with its resources and this is a waste of time we can and we must do better the apartheid accusation is false and i ask you respectfully to vote no on the petition regarding the march fifth ballot thank you thank you very much so our next speaker is ashley smith to be followed by brita fisher to be followed by uh number 12 uh winterford mccarthy don ashley please go ahead i assume that each of you will vote in favor of placing this referendum on the ballot i assume you'll uphold our democratic right to petition to place referendums on the ballot and vote on them if we still live in a democracy in burlington we should assume that we have these rights to decide where our city stands on questions of local national and international significance that have a direct bearing on our community three palestinians were shot in our community now you will hear all sorts of unfounded illegitimate claims about the referendum the zionist claim that israel is not an apartheid state that is false vetsalem human rights watch and amnesty international have documented the apartheid nature of israel it has over 65 laws that discriminate against palestinians including one that denies palestinians the right to return to their stolen homes and stolen land a right it grants to all jews throughout the world the zionist claim the referendum is racist that is false it explicitly opposes antisemitism as well as all forms of racism the zionist claim that it sows divisions that is false there is a division actually a hierarchy that oppresses palestinians the referendum aims to overcome it secure justice and thereby enable peaceful coexistence of palestinians and jews with equal rights the zionist claim that this is not a local issue that is false vermont taxpayers send nearly six million dollars a year to the state of israel our airport hosts the air guard which deploys to the middle east and we are home to corporations like general dynamics and collins aerospace that arm israel's military do not fall for the zionist doublespeak in defense of israeli apartheid you voted against the ceasefire a vote that was in support of israel's genocidal thank you so much any vote against this referendum is a vote for apartheid our next speaker is breita fisher to be followed by winifred mccarthy don to be followed by number 13 which is um elia hujunic uh so our next speaker is breita fisher welcome good evening i'm here tonight as a burlington resident with jewish heritage to ask that you not block the apartheid free community's pledge from going on the ballot as someone whose family moved to the u.s to escape anti-semitic violence in europe i want to affirm that jewish safety depends on palestinian liberation that our collective safety is bound up together in order to stop this in order to stop the cycle of violence allowing zionist to define jewish identity engenders jews by eroding the definition of anti-semitism and muddying the waters so that it is harder to call out anti- jewish rhetoric and violence i am disappointed exhausted and frankly heart sick that the language of this pledge which affirms the rights of freedom justice and equality for the palestinian people and all people which opposes all forms of bigotry and oppression is language that you wish to exercise your power to keep off our ballots despite over five thousand signatures of burlington residents i urge you to let the public weigh in on this issue which is a non-binding resolution in order to guide the city's next actions right now a genocide is taking place in gaza and as burlington has done in the past we have the opportunity to pledge our support for justice and equity and peace as i stated in my comment in support of the ceasefire resolution it feels painful to have the legacy and reality of anti-semitic violence in the west used as a justification for the maintenance and funding of the apartheid israeli state and a continued escalation of violence against the palestinians please do not exercise your right to block this uh democratic process and from this resolution from going on the ballot in march thank you thank you very much our next speaker is winifred mccarthy don to be followed by um well i'll get to that go go ahead please uh you just need to press and make sure that you're speaking into the microphone the light should be green in front of you there should be a little dot that's green okay so over 20 percent of israel's population are muslim they are many of them in high-ranking military academic scientific my apologies do you do you have the light is the light on okay if you could just pull the microphone closer is this better oh yeah okay we'll start the timer again at two minutes please go ahead thank you over 20 percent of israel's population are muslim arab one many are in high-ranking military and other academic science arts etc positions 8,550 jews were forced to leave their homes in egypt levin and syria iraq iran yemen libya and other arab countries after the war 18 at 1948 vermont is 9,616 square miles israel is 8,550 square miles our brave little state is bigger than that brave little nation thank you thank you very much so there are uh there are three uh berlington um berlington residents who are all berlington rabbis who wish to speak um together um and by agreement with the council which was notified of this last night we will have that there's also another rabbi who is joining them who is not a berlington resident if you wish um rabbi eddison to sit with them you're more than welcome to but only berlington residents will be speaking at this time um are there three of you or are there only two of you uh rabbi salzman if you if there's a way for you to come forward as well and so what we will do is um set the timer for six minutes um we would ask that you please each keep to two minutes a piece um but so that you can speak at one time moves okay please go ahead president paul uh yes could the speakers be asked to pull the microphones closer to them i think it might help sure that would be great so if you can just pull it as close as you can thank you please go ahead welcome hello again i'm rabbi erin filmis from ohavecetic what we love about berlington is the sense of openness and love civic pride and responsibility this ballot item makes many jewish people feel unwelcome and una and unafraid in berlington asking town residents to vote on whether to condemn the state of israel where half of the jews world's jews lives will lead to a rise in anti-semitism here in berlington since october seventh we have seen a sharp rise in anti-semitic harassment and bullying at our children's schools accusing of israel of being an apartheid settler colonialist regime even without even mentioning the threat of hamas is not only anti-semitic it's an outright lie jews are the most well documented indigenous people in the history of the world there's a vast written and archaeological record of our consistent presence in the land since the time of abraham israel's a tiny country built by jewish refugees who fled muslim and christian dominated lands to escape persecution and fulfill an ancient promise despite millennia of forced conversions by some miracle jews maintain their family tradition and connection to the land israel is not apartheid palestinian citizens in israel vote are on the supreme court and parliament and go to university at at high rates there is much work to do in israel but it is not apartheid israel withdrew from gaza hoping to trade land for peace but hamas was elected and they stole most of the foreign aid for their people and built an underground terrorist fortress and arsenal with the sole purpose of killing jews i'm horrified by the civilian casualties in the war and i blame hamas for using their civilians as human shields hamas is not pro palestinian hamas is pro iran and i'm still hopeful because local faith leaders are forming a partnership for peace for burling residents to meet with peacemakers who bring together israelis and palestinians on the ground in israel and palestine and creating more opportunities for facilitated dialogue between residents with different views on the conflict so that we can really talk to each other understand each other as opposed to what this resolution is doing if you can i'm asking you to vote no thank you hi i'm rabbi leo yunik the rabbi of khabad khabad jewish center it is commonly asserted that any petition with the right number of signatures deserves a place on the ballot as the people have spoken however i challenge this notion the city counselors can exercise the role as guardians of our city's well-being this city council serves as the guardian of burlington ensuring that petitions align with the values of our community i implore you to view the city council as parents of the city and say no just as parents must sometimes say no to their children for the sake of safety health and family dynamic saying no is not a rejection of democracy but the exercise but the exercise of democracy and a commitment to keeping burlington a safe and inclusive place believe us when we say that this petition does not make us feel safe it instills fear in jewish parents sending their children to jewish schools and affects decisions about letting children walk alone with the kippa and tizis this petition is also the divisive and false the jewish people are not settlers and are not colonizing the land of israel this land was promised to the jewish people in the bible by god as state or to abraham through your descendants i have gifted this land and ever since jewish people have lived there as indigenous to the land of israel israel is also not in apartheid state there is a supreme justice who's a palestinian arab and all citizens have equal rights vote no for truth for safety and for a burlington that we all deserve and to the people that signed this petition no one is silencing you this city council is just the wrong place for your activism rabbi jen salzman i am no fan of the net and yahoo government i am no fan of chamas and the palestinian authority they are acting in ways that are completely un conducive to human nourishing and prosperity each one of us in this room holds a piece of the truth and that we're listening carefully to each other right now i only hope that we are all listening to each other right now because each of us holds a part of the truth i would support a motion that placed equal blame on the situation on not just israel but also the palestinians and gaza that's the problem with this motion it is one sided and in that sense it is not representing the best will of the people of burlington this is as you can see causing all kinds of pain especially it's kind of like when we were kids and discussing vietnam around the dinner table it was awful and this is awful and so i'm hoping that if you want to put a proposal on the on the ballot for us to vote on that you consider one that share that is more accurate about the situation it doesn't just blame israel the people with whom i work are hurting they are hurting whether they support this proposal or not this is causing a lot of pain on all parts of the spectrum and so i encourage you to continue to do the amazing work that you do fix our roads take help our us with our homelessness and our energy use thank you thank you very much our next speaker is adam winter to be followed by number 15 was rabbi erin filba so we'll go past that number 16 is jeff schulman and number 17 is lucy gluck so with that adam winter to be followed by jeff schulman to be followed by lucy gluck good evening good evening from webster's dictionary genocide the deliberate and systemic destruction of a radical political political or cultural group gaza strip has two million inhabitants if we use the most recent number of 25 000 people killed in the current war that represents 1.25 percent of the population this is a terrible loss of life it is but it's not a genocide last month there were people in the balcony with a large sign saying from the river to the sea palisthenia will be free what people don't realize is that the river is the jordan river and the sea is the Mediterranean sea what lies between is the state of israel so this pro-palisthenian cry is literally calling for the genocide of all the jews and the annihilation of the state of israel the pro-palisthenians blame israel for a genocide but they are the ones calling for a genocide apartheid a policy of segregate of segregation or discrimination on grounds of race there are over 2.1 million arabs who live in israel there are at least two muslim supreme court justices and there have been over a hundred arab members of the israeli kineset which is their government in contrast there are no jewish judges in gaza there are no jewish members in hama's leadership israeli hospitals have always treated arab and jews alike the hypocritic oath sees no color of the skin palisthenian hospitals will not care for an injured jewish person for fear that they will be killed by hama's for doing so again pro-palisthenian's blame israel apartheid but it is the palisthenians who segregate the jews the effect of these resolutions and petitions have created divisiveness of the community and grave concern for jews in the brolinson area i believe i believe jewish houses of worship are the only institutions that rarely have to hire police details for other events we keep our doors locked at all times we have someone standing by the door the harassment and demonization needs to come to an end thank you thank you very much our next speaker is jeff shulman to be followed by lucy gluck and number 18 paul fleckinstein and number 19 maggie chadwell good evening good evening jeff shulman resident of brolinton's ward five i apologize for my voice um just over a month ago i was here speaking about another matter that i felt unfairly targeted israel and even though that resolution failed the level of vitriol and hate that filled this room was unlike anything that i've ever experienced in my 30 years as a resident of brolinton the overwhelming question that kept running through my head was how could some members of our city council intentionally create this environment in a community where the vast majority of people regardless of where they stand on this issue are able to get along have civil discussion compromise and often arrive at consensus and shockingly here we are again the supporters of the ballot initiative in front of you have intentionally chosen to light a fire in our community that simply does not need to exist it should be abundantly clear that regardless of what residents of the city of brolinton vote there will be no impact on the situation in israel and gaza what it will do however and what it already has done is so more division more hate more intimidation in this room in our community and most frighteningly in our schools i have a daughter in the brolinton public schools who after expressing concern about family members and friends living in israel was targeted and treated in a way that none of us would want our children to experience and i have no doubt there are others who after expressing concern for people living in gaza were treated the same way that my daughter was what are we modeling for our children when we point fingers at each other when we lob accusations and when we irresponsibly and casually throw around terms like apartheid and genocide can't we instead model for our children what it means to dig deep into a historical conflict to engage in civil discourse with empathy with even handedness and with an emphasis on building community not tearing it apart supporting this ballot initiative will further divide our already fragile community and make it thank you very much and less inclusive our next speaker is lucy gluck to be followed by paul fleckenstein to be followed by maggie chadwell uh and isabella lucharelli who is number 20 good evening uh my name is lucy gluck and i live in the old north end of burlington i am here as an ally for our jewish and muslim neighbors recently i was speaking with a friend of mine who's jewish and she was uh explaining to me some of the fears that she was having as this ballot item you know was coming closer and i just was really surprised about how afraid she was and felt like i need you know i need to know more about what this is it's it's a complicated issue but the simple answer is that you know we need to look at how our community either comes together or or divides itself um i was also learning about jewish students at uvm and what they've been dealing with in terms of facing anti-semitic signage and graffiti on campus and that was also deeply disturbing to me um the fact that some people are afraid to come to these meetings because they're they're too scared to sit in a room and feel that they might be attacked that was upsetting to me as well um so the you know looking at synagogues all across the country but right here in burlington what are they going to do to spend their money to make sure that they're safe that people in those buildings are not going to be attacked um that's uh really puts a a highlight on some of the situations that are going on right here in our own community so i am both pro-israel and pro-palestine and would like to see burlington residents coming together to support positive outcomes in the middle east i am horrified by the suffering of palestinians in gaza and the intense pain of israeli citizens palestinians and israelis deserve the right to peace and security sadly this petition is bringing that divisiveness many people are bringing up and and the fear um so i do not support putting this on the march ballot i do support the interfaith group that is now working on having constructive conversations on how we can be supportive of a two-state solution this partnership for peace coalition is reaching out to palestinian and israeli groups who are leading peace thank you very much initiatives in the middle east thank you very much no thank you very much our next speaker is paul fleckinstein to be followed by a maggi chedwell um and isabella lucharelli uh lucharelli i apologize you'll let me know if you i've mispronounced that um in number 21 is alison adams i'm a burlington resident opposed to genocide and apartheid the genocide in gaza so well documented by south africa the international court stems from israeli apartheid and ethnic cleansing a 75 year project to create a jewish majority ethno-state and eliminate palestinian resistance it includes the fake and now discredited two-state solution process that the u.s and israel have used for decades to consolidate zionist apartheid control over the occupied territories the division and violence travel home to us anti palestinian racism shootings of students billions of taxes to prop up apartheid banning palestinian speakers and zionist outline with pro-israel right-wing anti-semites in the u.s who admire the ethno-state all originate in the doomed attempt to protect and defend israeli apartheid the democratic majority on this council will continue down this road fostering racism violence slamaphobia and anti-semitism by pretending that the divisiveness and violence is caused by those demanding justice rather than those perpetuating genocide complicity in the u.s israeli genocide where this council is monstrous and it is unfortunately clear that democratic majority are unbothered to engrave injustices at home as well the nine democratic process here based on lies about apartheid free community is doing grave is reprehensible the democratic party mayoral candidate denies both the genocide and democracy at the ballot box if elected there will be no qualms about carrying out further further damage including violent racist policing violation of civil rights and more propping up of the military industrial complex at our expense but the apartheid free community organizing will continue and that's up to us thank you very much our next speaker is isabella lucarelli is it yes ma'am okay um so number 20 is isabella lucarelli uh to be followed by allison adams number 21 to be followed by maxine maxine clumas um 22 um excuse me i think you skipped 19 i'm sorry what i think you skipped number 19 that's my number oh you're absolutely right i did no worries my apologies um maggie shedwell please welcome thank you thanks so much for correcting me i have to say that i'm at a loss for words i don't know how to express how deeply disturbed i am by those of you on the council who are trying to disrupt the democratic process that you elected in the first place for monitors for justice and palestine palestine followed the system to a t so that's so that this pledge can be brought to the people to vote on you do not have the power to shut that down the puppeteering you all think is behind the scenes is so transparent you're protecting your zionist interests at the cost of innocent lives in palestine and right here in our community and at the expense of your democratic integrity as representatives of the city this is a local issue from the f-35s that fly overhead every day polluting the air and bombing civilians in gaza to our harder and money being used to fund the genocide while our community faces a serious housing crisis to the three young palestinian students who were shot just blocks from here the list goes on you have an obligation to allow us as a community to vote on this referendum to address this crisis it would be a moral failing to take that away from us i said this when i was here a few weeks ago before you voted down the ceasefire resolution and once again i'm pleading for you to leave with your humanity and do what you were elected to do represent us this is dire lives are being destroyed in the most unimaginable ways every minute we debate this free palestine thank you very much uh so our next speaker is isabel lucarelli to be followed by uh allison adams to be followed by uh maxine clumas and number 24 is abby missel good evening you might just need to get a little bit closer to the microphone yeah right here yeah yes that's right hi everyone my name is isabella and i'm here today because i believe that the only manner in which we move forward towards peace and equality involves taking an active an active stance against the genocide in palestine we cannot stand by while the us is putting our taxes towards killing innocent beings we must we must stand with Palestinians if we wish to protect the freedom of all people by supporting this we are increasing the divide that is deepening across america and the rest of the world by not adopting this pledge we are staying silent we have the power to speak out for the protection of our fellow um human beings who need it so desperately this is the time to stand up for what we know is right we do not seek to take justice away from israelis we are asking for equality of all i hope that we can come together in in this shared goal starting by adopting this pledge and at the very least allowing the democratic process to decide by keeping this pledge on the ballot thank you thank you so much our next speaker is allison adams to be followed by maxine clumas to be followed by api mesel and number 25 is kate mesel good evening hi you've heard tonight from many people about division and i agree this issue is divisive for 75 years israel has walled off millions of palestinians in tinier and tinier enclaves of their land while they endure the daily impacts of violent military occupation and blockade not equal rights they have different roads than israelis they are subjected to ongoing violence and displacement by his illegal israeli settlers that goes unpunished or even encouraged by the israeli government they must travel through numerous checkpoints to move between areas of the highly fragmented west bank slowing journeys that should take minutes to several hours palestinians in the occupied territories do not have freedom of movement they do not have self-determination they do not control their own border or their own economies and they cannot simply move to the rest of israel to have more but still unequal rights these are undisputed facts and they are defined as apartheid by un experts human rights watch amnesty international the israeli organization betsellem human rights scholars international law scholars in south africa itself and south africa should know you cannot argue that a society is a thriving democracy if that society has to wall off oppress imprison and murder the people who used to live on that land in order to keep it so that in fact is apartheid so it would be a grave misunderstanding to believe that this ballot initiative is divisive of course the division has existed for decades with real life impacts for palestinians in palestine and in the diaspora including in burlington i do not want anyone in our community to feel unsafe unsafe still i'll note that the most extreme acts of violence committed related to this issue in burlington have been against palestinians and you the members of the city council cannot protect the community of burlington without protecting palestinians and muslims here too the only way to achieve long-term unity is to move through the uncomfortable work of correcting injustice and your small part in doing that today is simply upholding burlington's democratic values thank you thank you very much uh so our next speaker is maxine clumas to be followed by abby macelle to be followed by kate macelle to be followed by number 26 which is melanie needle so maxine is maxine here is maxine here okay we will continue on the next speaker is abby macelle to be followed by kate macelle melanie needle and number 27 uh john tatlock good evening good evening city counselors and mayor weinberger with respect your agreement or disagreement with the content of the apartheid free burlington referendum is irrelevant tonight you have as much right to vote yes or no on this referendum come-town meeting day as the rest of burlington voters allow us to do so the reality is this referendum is relevant to us because burlington residents collectively spend over six hundred thousand dollars in federal taxes per year financing israel's military a military that terrorizes palestinians on a daily basis in the west bank carpet bombs gaza every few years and physically removes palestinians from their homes that's relevant to us in november three palestinian students were shot on north prospect street for wearing kafias and speaking arabic those who wish to block this referendum from the ballot would have us believe simply putting the referendum to a vote will usher in hate filled violence but violence is already here because of the anti palestinian and anti arab hate grown and stoked by the israeli and u.s governments not because of a call for justice for palestinians and an end to u.s complicity in their oppression palestinians injured here because of our tacit support of israel's violence is ours public safety issue do your job allow burlington voters to decide on an issue that is undeniably relevant to us lastly since when is an issue being divisive a legitimate reason for not having it on a ballot we don't ignore issues because they make some uncomfortable angry or even fearful that ignorance only further isolates those who are actually paying the consequences namely palestinians it's unacceptable for city counselors to cite divisiveness as a reason to block burlington voters from deciding how we want our city to better itself and live in thank you very much our next speaker is kate missel to be followed by melanie needle to be followed by john tatlock and number 28 is uh merrick broaderick good evening my testimony is in solidarity with three palestinian young men he's shem kinan and tass mean who were shot by a white supremacist in burlington two months ago for many of us the shooting brought the issue of palestinian oppression and freedom right to our doorsteps the shooting made clear that the israeli occupation of palestinian people has never been an over there issue it lives here and grows here as long as burlington takes no tangible action against this dehumanization i am here because my jewish ancestors also felt the consequences of relentless dehumanization my ancestors were shot in the streets of vilnius during the holocaust simply because they were jewish they understood dehumanization intimately do you we all look back on history and say we would never let atrocities like the holocaust happen that we would be the ones to speak up against violence but if you quash this measure before it even appears on the march ballot it is clear that not only do we allow atrocities to happen like the genocide in gaza we endorse them why because palestinians are not seen as human beings deserving love safety and freedom again and again the shootings survivors have asked us to do more than lip service again and again the survivors have urged us to respect palestinian life and explained that this shooting did not happen in a vacuum you cannot claim that burlington cares about the safety of his sham kinen and tassnian while in the same breath deny burlingtonians their right to decide what real care and safety look like thank you very much our next speaker is melanie needle to be followed by john tatlock and maryk broderick and number 29 is jackson francis good evening good evening thank you you so i will talk about four points um related to the impact voting um yes on the resolution will have on people here negative impact it will have on the people here this resolution harms the jewish people so those who are harmed get to decide what harms them so when jews says that this resolution is damaging you ought to hear them and act accordingly by voting no this resolution started before hamas attacked israel which demonstrates that this is a hateful resolution number three the city of burlington receives federal funding thereby the city is required to follow title six of the civil rights act which precludes the city from engaging in activities which are discriminatory on the basis of nationality which this resolution seeks to discriminate on the basis of nationality and then last also the virtues of the resolution start out okay promising freedom and equality for all including palestinian people and i support that but then it adds an exception that those associated with israel are not entitled to the same equality because by boycotting israel you are harming the people who live there including palestinians arabs and israelis thank you please vote no thank you very much our next speaker is john tatlock to be followed by marik braderick to be followed by jackson frances uh to be followed by number 30 uh jesse gustafson good evening hello uh my name is john i'm a member of the party for socialism and liberation here in burlington i'd like to thank the city council for showing us in this moment of clarity that our democratic right to vote is not guaranteed in the city it is one thing to oppose legislation you do not agree with in the name of your constituents but to refuse your constituents even the right to vote on a ballot initiative is blatant censorship the american ideals of freedom and democracy run counter to our lived experience if you as burlington's representatives and above all as american politicians want to create a believable ruse that there is democracy in this country then you must allow us the right to vote on democratic initiatives that we bring forward if we want freedom in our city we need to free ourselves from the status quo set by the american military industrial complex it is not enough for burlington to be a sanctuary city for refugees we must actively push back against our government's imperialist agenda which leads to the murder and displacement of thousands of civilians and creates the need for sanctuary cities in the first place all we ask of you tonight is that you let us vote on this measure to let us take this issue to the ballot box because you tell us again and again that is the right way to make change but we know just as well as you do that real democratic change does not come from a ballot box and that's why we will continue to be out in the streets for palestine whether or not you listen to us thank you thank you very much our next speaker is uh maryk broderick to be followed by jackson frances to be followed by jesse gustafson uh and number 31 is jeff potash good evening good evening my name is maryk broderick i live in ward eight and i echo the many here the vast majority here i might say who are calling on this council to allow the people of burlington their chance to vote on the apartheid free community pledge our democracy requires the people to trust those they elect to make decisions in their interests if you vote against this resolution to allow us a chance to vote you are saying that you do not trust your constituents to take part in governing this city that we are too incompetent to advise you to carry out our will this is nothing but the censorship of our right to improve this city against the status quo that we see today and that cannot stand the fact that we are even here when the work to put this on the ballot is already done is an insult to the palestinian residents of this city an insult to the organizers who brought this petition before you an insult to our democracy an insult to all the people of burlington vote yes do not be complicit give this city the chance that this council has previously squandered to show that all support for apartheid and oppression has no place in this city free palestine solidarity thank you very much our next speaker is jackson frances to be followed by jesse gustafson and jeff potash good evening hi vermonters for justice in palestine and its broader coalition have spent months hours and hours of labor gathering the required signatures five percent of burlington's voters with the expectation that the city would respect its charter an affirmative vote does not support palestine or israel but the people's right to petition and vote on this measure some say palestine is too far away for burlington to care about with three palestinian men were shot less than a mile from here also decades ago burlington supported the fall of apartheid south africa some 8 000 miles away now those very same people we supported fight for a people thousands of miles away from then be consistent and democratic and vote yes thank you very much our next speaker is jesse gustafson to be followed by jeff potash and number 32 is adam frances good evening hello i am here in support of both the apartheid free measure and the democratic process three palestinian students were shot here in this city this is a local issue i know that our federal government is not for the people but it's disappointing for us to have to beg the local government of a city that calls itself progressive to respect the democratic process how powerful that we can all dream up new worlds by everyone for everyone and not founded upon and reliant on perpetual violence we can say no more to apartheid and genocide in palestine and everywhere we can say no more to oppression of all peoples in palestine here and everywhere i ask you to really imagine this kind of world what role will you play to help us all get there will you allow the voters of burlington to be heard or will you reject the democratic process thanks thank you very much our next speaker is jeff potash to be followed by adam frances to be followed by uh rosalie schecter which is number who's number 33 and number 34 oh actually rambling jane salzman who has already spoken um and number 35 is uh more uh zactor zactor um good evening great thank you my name is jeff potash i am a lifelong resident of burlington and a 30 year 37 year property owner and taxpayer i attended burlington schools as did my son and daughter and now my two grandsons my message to you is really quite simple for me my family and i suspect for many other long-term residents of burlington the quality of life has seriously deteriorated in recent years expectations which we took for granted properly maintained roads personal safety urban cleanliness exemplary schools have been waylaid in favor of political grandstanding and social experimentation what we have witnessed and are seeing here tonight is a board whose valuable time is occupied debating issues over which it has no standing nor legitimacy to accommodating no perhaps encouraging inflated rhetoric you undermine the very foundations of civility and community that i and my family hold so dear we all deserve better let's stop the circus counselors focus on the job please that you were elected to do make burlington safe rebuild infrastructure give our resident taxpayer something tangible forever increasing tax burden beyond my family's residency i serve as the president of a hobby zedx synagogue here in burlington we are for months largest and oldest active synagogue founded by persecuted refugees from eastern europe in the 1880s who dedicated themselves to making burlington they are quote little jerusalem unquote and to bringing skills and to bringing uh to subsequent generations a desire to make this city a better place for all of us to live it is with tremendous pain that i observe in this community as i look about including all of among our children a growing sense of hatred a growing sense of anti-semitism as well as a growing sense of islamophobia jews and muslims thank you very much are not enemies thank you very much our next speaker is adam frances to be followed by rosalie shak shaktur to be followed by sorry spoken to be followed by more zaktur number 35 good evening good evening it's adam franz not adam frances but thank you we are here today because over the last few months organizers have worked tirelessly knocking on doors talking to their neighbors and getting the requisite signatures to get the apartheid free burlington uh resolution on the ballot that's democracy in action yet our council is likely to buck precedence and deny the people of the city an opportunity to vote on this measure given the choice between democracy and oligarchy the council looks poised to choose oligarchy it is worth reminding the council that we are not asking you today to vote for this measure we're only asking the council to get out of the way and let their constituents make their democratic decision the opposition says that this resolution is divisive but democracy is inherently divisive if you disagree with this measure make your case to the voters not finagling to get this motion off the ballot the city has a long history of opposing south african apartheid and what israel is practicing right now is apartheid this is not just my opinion but is the opinion of three major human rights organizations betsolem human rights watch and amnesty international i hope that the city will remember the role it took in the movement for freedom in south africa and support this measure but first the council needs to do the job it was elected to do and allow the measure to proceed to the ballot in march thank you very much thank you very much our next speaker is rosalie shekter to be followed by to be followed by more zac zactor to be followed by noreed zactor number 36 good evening hi there i'm here tonight because i believe there is a different path forward for the burlington community and my community than the proposed ballot petition that is up for a vote this evening i want to make clear my heart has been broken into many pieces since october 7th it's shattered for the lost lives in israel and it's shattered for the lost lives in gaza in a really really deep way and when the city of san francisco was contemplating a resolution about the devastating situation in gaza and israel last week the mayor responded with the following words we should be creating opportunities for conversation for people to rally around our common values to advocate for peace and to support human life we should be coming together supporting each other and seeking the cohesion at home that we hope for abroad i fear deeply that the proposed ballot petition furthers painful divisions that exist in our community at a time when we need each other more than ever and when we need to turn down the temperature on ever increasing levels of hate this resolution prompts us to choose sides to vilify one another to further fray our already hurting community i believe that the majority of us of burlingtonians prefer a path of constructive dialogue that over one that foments division and hate i know that the city has what it takes to be a national leader in promoting ways to productively and lovingly move through this painful time in a way that brings us together that acknowledges the pain the fear the hurt that so many of us are feeling i'm proud to be part of a local group called partnership for peace that's working towards a sustained peace in israel and palestine we're creating space for diverse voices and viewpoints and engaging with palestinian and israeli groups who are leading peace work on the ground in the middle east this is the work that makes meaningful change possible and i fear this work will be far more difficult if we continue to denigrate one another to take sides as the proposed ballot resolution does i hope you will vote no and instead put our precious city resources towards meaningful loving and compassionate dialogue that moves us towards a more thank you very much our next speaker is mort zachter to be followed by uh mureet zachter mureet zachter to be followed by crystal kohl number 37 good evening good evening is your is the microphone on now my name is mort zachter and i am here to ask the council to vote uh in opposition uh to the petition the petition begins with verbiage that is is wonderfully positive and it states we are opposed to all forms of oppression yet the only oppression that addresses in the last few phrases of it is oppression by israel there's no mention of hamas there's no mention of the actions on october 7th to to me that was a form of oppression and i don't want to belabor the point because so much has been said by other speakers before but the last point i'll mention because so much has been said i want to respond to so much that's been said but when israel forcibly took the settlers and gaza out in 2006 they left greenhouses the first thing that was done when they moved out was those greenhouses houses were destroyed by the palace by hamas palestinians so i i have nothing else to say but it's emotional on all sides and the last thing i'll add is that the tragedies that have happened i hope as a result of all this death and destruction that something good will come out of it and there will be a true two-state solution the hostage are released there's a permanency spire and somehow we can have a permanent peaceful two-state solution because this has got to end and i don't think this council has any power to do anything about that thank you very much our next speaker is uh noreed zactor to be followed by crystal coal to be followed by peg price number 38 um and ilana seligman 39 good evening hi i'm noreed zactor hopefully we all feel for the suffering of the palestinian people and the suffering of the hostages and their families and the suffering of the citizens of israel and the suffering of those in the ukraine and all the war zones around the world and let's not forget the many women living under sharia law and the lgbq communities and countries and regimes where they are persecuted for their sexual orientation gratefully and thankfully we all live in vermont the council's responsibility to the people of burlington is to the people of burlington the council would serve us best by creating cultural programs and activities that create dialogue that unites us because that that doesn't unite us divides us let each individual resident work on behalf of the causes they support by marching in the streets by working with appropriate NGOs the council's responsibility is to the local population just outside the doors are the homeless and the mentally ill they need our help this resolution or proposal does not belong on our ballot it will not serve our neighbors it will not unite us thank you thank you very much our next speaker is crystal coal to be followed by peg price to be followed by ilana seligman to be followed by robin maza number 40 good evening hi give me one second okay hi my name's crystal and i'm here representing the vermont worker center as i say that we should follow our city's democratic process and put the apartheid ballot measure up to a vote first i want to say we're talking a lot tonight in defense of israel saying how it's anti-semitic to oppose a criticize it but we're not actually talking about the ballot measure i want to set two things straight real quick and then discuss the actual ballot first opposition to israel is not anti-jewish in fact if i were to ask all the jewish vermonters that are here to support the ballot measures to raise their hands you'll see that anti-zionist jewish vermonters are a substantial part of this audience second opposing apartheid is done by israel it does not mean kicking all jewish people out of the land as many tonight have claimed multiple speakers tonight talked about israel israel being a country built from nothing by people who fled arab's but this is false israel is a governing body that sees the many mixed faith villages that existed before the state of israel's created and placed them in the control of a british colonial administration muslims and jews lived in that land for hundreds of years before coexistence has happened before and can happen again through an actually equal one state solution but not when we're giving one group billions to kill the children of the other but the issue i hand today is what burlington does many say we should focus only on local issues and as some have said it's certainly local because our tax money goes to that issue but there's also people muslim and jewish vermonters three palestinian students were shot what about the 4 000 muslims in burlington and our close sister city when uski should we not make an effort to prevent such violence and show our muslim community we care about their safety anti-semitism is real too david getty mentioned the tree of life shooting in 2018 in pittsburgh the shooting was motivated by a white shooter robert bowers who is not an error by the way he mentioned the false white replacements theory and said theory and said jews are replacing white people this bill would address both those shootings because it says the following we oppose all forms of racism bigotry discrimination and oppression and we declare ourselves an apartheid free community the ballot does not say all israeli should be banned or whatever lies are being said it simply says we do not support using military power to segregate please allow our city to vote on this issue thank you thank you very much our next speaker is peg price to be followed by elana seligman to be followed by robin maza to be followed by andrew schaweck uh it's number 41 do i good evening do i press a button or no you don't have to touch those just as long as the light in front of you is green on the on the microphone i want to thank the burlington city counselors for being here and listening to me my family and i we chose to move to burlington 10 years ago because we embrace the progressive values of the city and we want to live in a city that embraces diversity and where everyone can feel safe in their identity so i want to explain how this does impact us directly and my family since the october 7th attacks in israel we've witnessed a dangerous rise in both anti-muslim and anti-semitic incidents nationwide and reaction to the war many people have brought up horrific violent attacks against both palestinian americans muslims and jews both communities are living in greater fear right now and that's why we need all of you as our city counselors to help build a sense of safety our children are relying on you this is personal my youngest child goes to a jewish preschool here on the first night of hanukkah on december 7th a man with a gun went to temple israel in albany new york and he's on the first night of hanukkah and he started firing in front of the synagogue while the children were napping when taken into police custody he said he was in sense because of what he's hearing on the news about the war american both muslims and jews are being targeted because of the swore and we're asking you to help keep us safe i'm really terrified by the last line in this petition and how this will be viewed by thousands and tens of thousands of berlington residents and what this will mean um and how many will interpret it my my toddler has a hebron name and i'm so scared how she's going to be viewed for years to come simply because her parents gave her a hebron name berlington city council for better or worse cannot end this war i wish we could but we can fight for safety in our city we can fight for a two-state solution thank you so much our next speaker is ilana seligman to be followed by robin maza to be followed by andrew schaweck good evening my name is actually ilana seagulman ilana ilana my apologies this is the third time in two years and the second time in six weeks the topic of israel is back on the table we are wasting precious time i want to believe that each of you want peace and safety in our community however instead of talking about our local issues which are many we are here again debating renewed effort to condemn israel there are zionists living amongst us there are people here with israeli family visit any jewish temple and you'll discover that a majority of people there have sent money to israel so what is the purpose of the divestment pledge what does that call to action look like will you decide that the jews are unacceptable people to have living here will synagogues close will businesses be boycotted because god forbid they sent money to israel what exactly is the pledge asking here because our jews are afraid this pledge requires the jewish people in burlington to divest in our culture and our ancestral homeland to renounce ourselves and our very existence even our federal government has made it clear that anti zionism is anti semitism i wonder if this pledge is legal under laws of boycott last week mayor breed of san francisco denounced her city council for their anti israel and anti semitic proposal i will not repeat everything that was said because she some of the quotes were already read but i will say that she did say no one should feel unsafe in our communities and no one should think that while advocating for peace abroad it's okay to stoke division and hate at home and like i said the other quote was read so i won't read read it i agree with mayor london breed and i would like to create unifying conversation in our own community and find peace and safety here and i also feel that this pledge is ironic because it singles out the jews zionists israelis and creates an apartheid community at home thank you thank you very much our next speaker is robin maza to be followed by andrew i'm sorry i i'm probably mispronouncing this name andrew schaweck to be followed by linda seagal number 42 to be followed by adam bluestine number 43 good evening hi good evening i come today as a burlington resident as a concerned jewish mother of two local business owner owner and burlington medicine i said that already i stand for peace and equality for all support a two-state solution and stand against anti-semitism islamophobia and hamas i want to impress upon those of you who sit on the council who insists that anti-semitism and anti-zionism are two separate things that this anti-israel rhetoric is simply untrue and we could see it right here in our community unfortunately children in your public schools here in burlington are the perfect example confirmed cases of anti-semitic chance that incite violence against jews specifically an excuse my language f the jews and gas the jews have been reported to local community leaders again in your public schools now tell me that anti-zionism isn't anti-semitism you can't your city is unsafe for the jews who live here i worry for my visibly jewish family as they walk to sit in gong on saturdays i no longer allow my son to wear a kipa in your city i worry about my business being targeted because i am jewish and i believe in the right for self-determination in our ancestral homeland where we have no when we have no other truly safe place in the world i was told by a council person that this petition is symbolic since it bears no weight in what is what is actually happening in israel and gaza but it's certainly not symbolic to the majority of jews and israel supporters here in burlington this is in fact a very clear call to action and actually bears a lot of weight for your jews here in burlington and to dismiss this is incredibly biased this petition is grossly one-sided if you're going to vote yes whether it's personal or numbers you must also consider including a clear condemnation of hamas recognition of has him as hamas as a terrorist organization state zero tolerance for rape as resistance kidnapping mutilation and intentional murder of civil of innocent civilians be the leaders who are elected to be and make a positive change here in the community not one that is going to further encourage what is already happening in your city thank you for your time thank you very much our next speaker is andrew schaubach to be followed by linda seagull to be followed by adam bluestine to be followed by david harari number 44 good evening good evening i'm andrew schaunbeck of 150 cherry street here in burlington i'm here tonight to urge you not to adopt the ballot petition being considered for the march fifth annual meeting the burlington city council is not a body involved to be designed to be involved in complex foreign policy matters it should confine itself to promoting unity and peaceful coexistence and on enhancing the quality of life in burlington adopting this pledge will accomplish none of these things rather it will sow discord disunity and fear in the community those like me who understand the history of the jews since they were driven from their homes in what had been the ancient kingdoms of juda and samaria will be made to feel very uncomfortable and unwelcome in burlington there can be no doubt that the jewish people are the most persecuted people group in the history of the world you see what happened on october 7th was not an outlier it was par for the course of the massacre rape torture and displacement that the jewish people have repeatedly endured over the thousands of years of their diaspora the united nations supported the partition of the british mandate in palestine to create a two-state solution including the state of israel as a place of refuge where such events would never again take place it is indeed unfortunate that the surrounding arab nations chose to respond by immediately invading the fledgling country in their first effort to wipe it off the face of the earth this being such a fraught and emotionally charged issue for so many residents of burlington i would urge the council to work to promote peace and unity among burlingtonians and vote no thank you thank you so much our next speaker is linda segal to be followed by adam bluestine to be followed by david harari good evening thank you my name is linda segal and i've lived in burlington for the last 37 years there is no end to the number of atrocities happening in the world right now that we could be up in arms about there is the reprehensible treatment of the Uyghurs by the chinese the taliban's treatment of women the atrocious treatment of civilians by warring factions in bukhana bukino faso mali sudan samalia mozambique and nigeria the ao cry against turkey and its treatment of the Kurds the aggression against ukraine by russia the hutis the syria miyanmar and indonesia to name just a few but for the third time over the past two years some members of our city council along with some community members have chosen to demonize the state of israel it is hard to not question whether there is some level of fundamental anti-semitism at play here which puts the jewish citizens of burlington at risk we have already seen how it has permitted some residents to jeopardize the lives of palestinians initiatives such as this reduce the quality of life in burlington for many residents how likely is it that any ballot issue placed on the march ballot will affect any policy by the netanyahu government or the goals of hamas to wipe out all jews which no one seems to be too concerned about if you insist on focusing on the atrocities of the world please at least be more even-handed and stop pointing a finger only at the jews i urge you to vote no on the passage of this ballot initiative thank you very much our next speaker is adam bluestine to be followed by david harari to be followed by arey moskowitz that's number 45 who's number 45 good evening thank you counselors and mayor i've been a resident of burlington for 18 years and a jew for much longer it feels bad to be here to oppose another anti-israel proposal coming before the council the petition to place a non-binding referendum on palestine and israel on the town meeting day ballot is the third attempt in less than two years to vilify israel in this chamber i urge you to vote no one might come here for the first time and observe a large number of people speaking out in favor of the proposal and a smaller number speaking in opposition and decide that the side with more supporters must be right however let's put the numbers in context in the us jews make up just 2.2 percent of the overall population in the overwhelmingly white state of vermont jews make up just 1.2 percent of the population even vermont's black population unbelievably is larger that should make you wonder how many jews show up to speak here at all it should make you marvel at that approving the proposed ballot item does nothing to advance peace in the middle east nor does it simply condemn hate and discrimination last month counselor travers proposed a resolution that would have condemned anti-muslim violence as well as anti-semitism in burlington his proposal was rejected by progressive counselors the current declaration does nothing to advance the cause of peace in the middle east it does make jewish people less safe at the meeting here in december counselor jing seemed incredulous that extreme anti-israel rhetoric could make jewish people feel less safe although numerous people tried to explain to him that it did he could not understand or chose not to imagine religious leaders and members of any other historically oppressed minority group coming before this council expressing fear over proposed legislation and being told prove that you have reason to be afraid the proposed ballot item will do nothing to impact foreign policy it won't resolve a situation that has defied international diplomacy i urge you to vote no on it and turn to other urgent work we have before us thank you thank you very much our next speaker is david harari to be followed by aria moskowitz to be followed by uh cilia lieberman um number 46 good evening good evening thank you counselors for everything you do i'm a local physician who has called burlington vermont home since 2011 i've lived in israel i'm a proud jew i'm a proud american i'm a sibling of two sisters who live in israel and a grandchild of holocaust survivors on my mother's side and of syrian jews forced to flee their hometown in aleppo on my father's side and like president biden recently stated i'm a zionist that is why i'm here this evening to express how incredibly saddened and disappointed i am by the recent citizen position to add an anti-israel advisory question on the march fifth ballot despicably attributing the terms of partide regime and settler colonialism to israel understand that this entire initiative is utterly one-sided bias factually incorrect and frankly anti-semitic not only does it not generate a positive outcome for our community but it is divisive and inflammatory language also creates an unsafe climate for many especially in the places of worship i attend and in the jewish schools i send my children i'm appalled by the flagrant bias and the complete lack of facts of understanding of an enormous piece of jewish history jewish and israeli history i'm also deeply struck by the fervor and energy provided to an initiative that will only further intensify a sense of fear and pain to many in our jewish community and other faith-based communities please understand that humans are capable of both and ideas a vital concept i hold near and dear as a psychiatrist one can utterly be devastated by the unspeakable atrocities perpetrated by Hamas against innocent israelis in on october 7th and by the subsequent loss of human life in homes in gaza i we are capable of both and this initiative is not that this petition is not an example of latent anti-semitism this is a blatant anti-semitism it has no place in our city which prides itself on an unparalleled sense of openness and tolerance if that were so and i hope it is it ought to extend to the jewish people as well do what's right please vote no on this bias anti-semitic one-sided ballot initiative and keep your constituent safety and security in mind thank you thank you very much our next speaker is aria mosquits to be followed by uh silia liberman to be followed by oxy oxy cut cut it i apologize i'm not really sure this is number 47 um but we'll come back to that um our next speaker aria mosquits not here okay uh to be followed by silia liberman yes do i have your name correctly yes okay great welcome sorry i just need a breath um this is very close to home hi my name is silia ken liberman i was born in israel and spent most of my life there until moving there until moving here seven years ago and choosing to make burlington my second home i am proud to be israeli and jewish and we'll stand up for these identities until my last breath my parents and i moved here after we were in a mass shooting terrorist attack in 2016 this attack was perpetrated by two palestinian men who were part of the jihadist group isis which is very similar to hamas um whose sole intent was to kill as many jews as possible even after my experience in dealing with p my ptsd to this very day i choose to believe in the better part of humanity i choose to believe that such hateful ideologies and horrible acts aren't supported by the majority of palestinians even when the voices of hate are so much louder i choose to remember the palestinian children i had met as a kid in israel at different peace initiative programs i choose to believe that we can still come together as culture um in our cultural similarities as well as our shared pain and because of this i am disappointed in all of you who are further polarizing us and setting us against each other and choosing sides like it's a sports team especially those of you with no person not personally affected by such division instead your responsibility as members of our shared community here is to unite us to validate all of our pain to be a safe and welcoming place for all this ballot item alienates your israeli community members your jewish neighbors with loved ones or any other connection to the land and labels us as genocide supporters this will legitimize the rise of an anti-semitism and hateful acts just for being israeli and speaking my native language which is already happening to my friends and even my second grade Hebrew school students in our welcoming community it will invalidate the pain that my people and i are still really reliving every day and dismiss the blatant genocidal declarations of Hamas to cleanse the world of jews as they've already acted upon on october 7th i may not thank you thank you so much our next speaker is uh is soshi kajat um to be followed by uh ben jat jastat to be followed by uh thomas Sutton who is number 49 hello my apologies if i got your name wrong it is shochie kajat okay thank you um in vermont uh a land so many tonight have exalted as a liberal haven uh the so loved place of niceties and of course bernie sanders contrary to these conceptions we are here begging to be allowed to vote on a subject so many of us have already expressed a community need for to be silenced and rejected the right to vote makes a joke of this democracy as so many have said how does this affect us and how does it affect us and as so many have responded how is it okay that three young men were shot one paralyzed here in our city just a few blocks away say no to a second nukba say no to digging for your children's remains say no to using tents as menstrual products say no to funding a genocide say yes let's not let's not do that say yes let's do it no let's not let's not do that you're you're imperiling public forum let's do that all right you're he's speaking into your time no okay let's not do that i think we need for that person to leave the room please i said no to genocide and you told me to leave if i may finish if i may finish that statement to which i do agree say yes to the right to vote and say no to genocide thank you very much uh the next speaker is ben jasda to be followed by tom asutton to be followed by samuel bliss is number 50 good evening hey good evening my name's ben jasdad i'm a resident here in burlington um is that gentleman just so aptly showed we are waging a proxy war here in burlington it's a escalation without an exit strategy manifesting overseas rage into real world rage in our community it's community that we have the power to serve but we're failing to do so if you just look outside the doors at the rising homelessness to fentanyl addiction petty and violent crime or housing crisis children going to school in an abandoned mall we haven't even been able to address the simple vandalism or abandoned buildings around downtown and yet we take the vital time energy goodwill and resources and direct them away from our community and away from supporting one another this can't be just about doing the right thing or about american tax tax dollars or about the expectation that we would have an impact overseas there was we'd be talking about russia we'd be talking about ukraine yemen syria iraq and the curds or even examining our country's own history and on and on and on but that is not happening this is about outrage and when your outrage cannot find its impact it's intended target it finds another and it's already spilled into our community the starkest example is the attempted murder of three palestinian men but your neighbors have also been harassed online at home or at school for nothing other than their religious background or for condemning violence against all innocent people or for just not agreeing on every line item on someone's list of an extraordinary complexity we're playing a dangerous game of ideological brinkmanship it's a game most often played by those who can't or won't govern so they divide and rage distract weaponize us against one another there's so much anger here tonight and ask what is it solved has anyone changed their mind have we gained any empathy for one another and yet despite all this we're still neighbors co-workers friends separated by one or two degrees of small of separation in the small community imagine if you marshal the energy and outrage that you've stoked here today the issues we can actually address thank you so much our next speaker is thomas Sutton to be followed by samuel bliss to be followed by antonio golon to be followed by uh michelle sagal chick welcome i urge the committee to uphold the democratic process free palestine thank you so much our next speaker is samuel bliss to be followed by uh samuel bliss to be followed by antonio golon samuel bliss we will continue then with antonio golon to be followed by uh michelle sagal chick uh and to be followed by bros toto toshur who's number 53 good evening good evening my name is antonio golon i'm a burlington resident and i'm operating on the assumption that the democrat democratic members of this council will vote against this ballot measure uh this ballot measures opponents have repeatedly argued that this matter is divisive and that it would is not within the city of burlington's purview but in reality all this talk about divisiveness and the fracturing of our community is nothing but empty rhetoric the reality is the democratic democratic party knows that in all likelihood the citizens of this city would vote yes to declaring burlington an apartheid free city and this would put you in a politically uncomfortable position as such today you are choosing political experience over social justice and frankly you should be ashamed of yourselves history will judge you harshly because though this is a hot button issue today years from now the history books will recognize israel's apartheid regime for what it is in the same way they now recognize the jim crow south and south africa's apartheid regime for what they were and when this happens the council members voting against the ballot measure today will regale us with more empty rhetoric this time repeating the worn out lines people always turn to when history has caught up with them if only we had known if only something could have been done or maybe you might even have the audacity to tell us that you are on that you were on our side all along we must remember that many of those that once called nelson mandela terror terrorist celebrate him today as a hero unfortunately for you however tonight you will leave a public record of your position we will remember this and future generations of berlingtonians will look back in shame at what you're about to do i see the rest of my time thank you so much our next speaker is michelle seggal chick to be followed by brosh tosher to be followed by thea wheeling number 54 to be followed by um aspen ovary number 55 good evening good evening i'm michelle seggal chick i come to city council as a berlington resident as a berlington jew and as a civics teacher at berlington high school i spoke many weeks ago attempting to convince city council to vote in favor of a ceasefire resolution along with many others who spoke for hours begging you to vote with moral conviction unfortunately it felt that you all already came with your decisions on how you would vote and were not moved by the hours of testimony it weakened our faith in the purpose of a supposedly democratic public forum today i am not here to convince you whether or not genocide is occurring today it shouldn't matter how you would vote on the resolution it is now our turn to get to vote as ordinary citizens as a civics teacher i am tasked with guiding students to understand and engage with our society's democratic processes it becomes much harder to do that job successfully if we undermine the few democratic measures we have you said at the start of this forum that parents use these forums to teach their children about city government what kind of lesson is it to them that people's voices can be blocked because those in power disagree with the politics of it i'm grateful to the people that have worked tirelessly on collecting signatures because it has already fostered democratic discussion it is to their credit that we're here talking about this today shutting down that dialogue is divisive that is what is divisive shutting down that dialogue and ultimately you will be choosing sides if you don't let this ballot be voted on vastly overstepping your power let us as voters decide well you may see this as a small irrelevant or distant issue it adds to the momentum of censorship that we are seeing across the country historically there are dozens of seemingly small moments like this on the road to authoritarianism it opens the door for city councils of the future to override the democratic rights of citizens as you may have noticed the jewish community is incredibly divided on where we stand on this issue and no one jewish person can speak on the behalf of all of us i will just say that i find it very dangerous the stoking of violence by the fear of by some of our religious thank you so much thank you so much our next speaker is brosh toshur to be followed by thea wheeling to be followed by aspen ovary to be followed by romeo von herman number 56 good evening good evening my name is brosh disher resident of berlington for the last 12 years and currently a very unhappy taxpayer and i've been paying my taxes uh city council members i encourage you to vote no on the proposed item uh let me read you appendix b or for rules and regulations of city council one purpose and organization of city council meetings uh the purpose of the city council meetings is to conduct city business efficiently and effectively while still allowing appropriate public input so far so good my question is what business does the city of berlington has to do in foreign affairs to take place 5500 miles away and how would this help the city you do your job on things which are far more familiar with like crime drugs homelessness theft deteriorating business environment and business persons leaving how would this help with house pricing and housing community problems i don't see how any of this is helping and why are you wasting public time and money on this this does not look like city business to me it looks like something else we have general elections coming up in 10 months 11 months people have the right to express themselves they can do it in the general elections and there's plenty of going around about that so first amendment great city council city business not so great i hope that city resources will go to where you have the expertise where people are directly affected by which are the most direct concern to us thank you thank you very much our next speaker is thea wheeling to be followed by aspen ovary to be followed by romeo von herman to be followed by dan castragano who's number 57 good evening good evening can you hear me yes we can uh yeah i'm here in support of democracy um democracy's always been a battle um we don't have the democracy that we deserve um the 55 richest white men in america wrote this constitution they included the senate the supreme court and the electoral college all of these were designed to thwart democracy um workers and poor people have spent the last 200 years trying to improve this democracy um citizen led initiatives are one such example of a reform that's trying to bring about a genuine representation i appreciate you representing us um it doesn't seem very democratic to me to um take this off the ballot it is it is it is a divisive issue democracy is divisive and i think one of the ways that we can solve social issues is by putting things on the ballot and letting people speak um so i'm just urging you to put this on the ballot and um thinking about january 6th 2021 and a potential second uh trump administration it's just i guess i want to speak to everybody to just say it's all of our responsibility to fight for democracy and to make this um a world that we can live in um a world of peace and justice uh we know that the the root of peace is justice um and and um question is um imperialism the the funding of um land theft and slaughter and apartheid um i'm disappointed in the zinus here today that are afraid of democracy um i think it speaks to uh their their agenda that is also represented in israel i don't think israel's a democracy thank you thank you very much our next speaker is aspen ovary to be followed by romeo von herman dan castragano uh and hannah lorenz who's number 58 good evening good evening council members uh my great grandfather alexander freeman fled hungry to escape the holocaust and the and the fascist regime there when when he fled after he fled every single member of his family was killed by that fascist regime it is in his honor that i am here today it is it is due to his persistence that i'm here today to say never again means never again truly and it should and it does not mean never again when it does not mean never again when it's convenient it does not mean unless it it does not mean never again unless it unless it benefits our economic interests i i think of him when i see when i see news stories of of entire palestinian families being wiped out in single airstrikes when i see stories of of palestinian of palestinian babies orphaned with no known family who have their entire culture lost and taken from them by in the israeli apartheid regime we have an obligation and so it is fairly undeniable at this point that what we're saying is both an atrocity and a genocide and so i waste no more time establishing this we have an obligation to be on the right side of history on this issue we have a we have a right as the citizens of brellington to speak in support of the of human rights as a city many have called for unity here tonight but there can be no unity when there is a apartheid we cannot peace without justice there is much discussion on feelings of fear yet all this ignores the fact that the inflammatory pro-israel rhetoric shared through our community has already led to the brutal shooting of three palestinians two blocks from my house in the words of his shama or tani it is of no importance that the person who shot me was not israeli because the hate that made this possible was made in israel it dehumanized palestinians on industrial scan was sent to the u.s. in neat little airway packages we must be and so we must speak against the machine that produces the hate that shot we cannot claim as a city thank you so much i have one last no i'm sorry thank you we must our next speaker is romeo von herman to be followed by dan castragano good evening good evening madam president can you hear me yes thank you madam president uh forgive me if i'm feeling a a little bit of a deja vu being here on the same issue again but uh madam president mr mayor good to see as always sir city counselors city administrative team fellow burlingtonians i understand that opinions on political matters especially those related to international conflicts can vary widely it is important to approach such discussions with commitments to understanding that diverse perspectives in our city is important that being said here's why i'm against any resolution or item ballots that is divisive anti-israel including today's deliberative item agenda which calls for our city to declare the jewish state of israel as an apartheid state and etc i would like to remind fellow burlingtonians that there are local issues that need our immediate and undivided attention including the ever-growing encampments just outside our doors here right on battery street as well as under the church bell next to the transit center on cherry street i am beyond shocked at the lack of visceral outpouring support for the unhoused members of our city who tonight will go sleep freezing if not near freezing temperatures i'm really disappointed that we're not showing the same level of support viscerally speaking for folks out there that tonight will again go to sleep in the cold i'll end on this when this same item came before the council on december 11th i reminded the council that it is in no position to dictate to the jewish state of israel through council resolution or executive orders or any item ballots what this the jewish state of israel can and cannot do so finally i just want to say to this to everybody thank you thank you so much thank you our next speaker is dan castragano to be followed by hannah lorence to be followed by lizzie mccullough to be followed by will lynch number 60 good evening hello i stand in solidarity with the movement for palestinian liberation and believe we should declare burlington an apartheid free city i urge you to put the apartheid free resolution on the ballot and let the people decide i want to recognize the organizers who gathered thousands of signatures for this resolution last week i was here you refused to put the charter change on the ballot that would have expanded the power of the police commission that was undemocratic i urge you to put the apartheid free resolution on the ballot and let us decide refusing to let the people decide again twice in seven days is undemocratic put it on the ballot so we can vote on it thank you thank you so much our next speaker is hannah lorence to be followed by lizzie mccullough to be followed by will lynch to be followed by to be followed by uh mirza carot carot nick okay thank you number 61 please go ahead welcome hi thank you my name is hannah lorence and i'm a resident of ward six i'm one of the over 1600 voters that signed the apartheid free burlington measure and i'm deeply concerned by this undemocratic power grab opponents of this measure say burlington residents are not educated enough on this topic to vote on it i've been to israel twice and i don't want my tax dollars or city supporting the violent apartheid system and military occupation israel enacts against palestinians that i witnessed with my own eyes opponents say this measure would make jewish community members feel unsafe this measure is about israel a government rooted in zionism not judaism and conflating criticism of israel with anti-semitism is dangerous and distracting from the real anti-semitism happening here and around the world opponents also say there are more urgent issues to address in the city yet what is more urgent than the addressing the root cause of the anti-arabracism and islamophobia that led to violence against three young palestinian americans who were shot in our city only two months ago finally opponents say it's an issue of foreign politics it has no place in burlington and yet they're here fighting against american democracy while advocating on behalf of israel a foreign government you can actually pull up twitter right now and see that a city counselor has chosen to put an israeli flag in her social media bio instead of an american flag our leadership is uplifting a foreign government instead of the will of the people they were elected by thank you thank you very much our next speaker is lizzie makala to be followed by will lynch um to be followed by mirza my apologies i i know that somebody who's here gave me the correct pronunciation of that name um thank you so we'll go on to uh lizzie is that great welcome um i'm a burlington resident and i'm urging the council to put the apartheid free community measure on the ballot um as a citizen it's worrying to hear that some counselors have indicated that they wouldn't let a petition on the ballot in march despite it getting the requisite signatures um and the censoring of your own constituents is even more worrying as israel carries out a brutal genocide against the palestinian people and speech criticizing our own government's deep complicity in this genocide is becoming increasingly censored um this complicity is enabled by attempts to distance our community from the acts of violence going on um and that purposely obscures the truth that us made weapons killed children in palestine and israel depends on our tax dollars to fund an apartheid government i'd also like to thank the huge amount of work that's been done up to this point to bring this measure in front of the council and hopefully to the people in march um it would be a shame for that hard work to be blocked by our own elected officials so again i'd urge this council to vote yes um and allow this measure to go before the public thanks thank you very much our next speaker is will lynch good evening good evening all my name is will i'm a health care worker a coach a musician and a lifelong resident of burlington i'm here to urge you all to honor the work of your constituents to bring the apartheid free apartheid free pledge to the ballot in march to those seeking to stunt this democratic process those who swear that this falls outside of their purview i don't feel that my words should hold more weight than a single pediatric body bag nevermind tens of thousands nor the starvation of hundreds of thousands of mouths crying out for anyone to do anything but keeping my mouth shut is worse than worse than saying nothing you've been granted several opportunities to prove that you grasp the humanity of these communities elders parents children and babies whisked away from the world that we had shared i don't really care if you really don't care because being honest and being right are not the same there is no apologizing five 10 20 years from now during your bid for the senate congress for governor nor within the next six weeks because i will never forget and we along with our friends and families will never let anyone else forget what it is you choose to embrace i'd like us all to sit quietly and mourn the countless vibrant futures erased by our taxes while giving some time for certain leaders here to consider what could be a future of ever festering guilt and regret warping what might have been an honorable life thank you so much our next speaker our next speaker will be uh joe kane to be followed by chris gish to be followed by maya jamal dean to be followed by hyam lodish number 65 good evening good evening everyone my name is mirza koraikic and i'm a burlington resident for 24 years now i went to burlington high school i grew up here i'm a father of two muslim children on behalf of my family and on behalf of the 6000 plus muslims living here i would like to let you know that we don't feel safe because you voted against a ceasefire who does that how is a ceasefire going to hurt anyone please explain that to me i've never witnessed that in my life that somebody votes against a ceasefire you send a clear message that shooting muslims and shooting palestinian is okay and that you want to protect us even when we get shot right here in burlington and you allowed thousands of more children and women to be murdered by the israeli terror forces in palestine in gaza to be specific it is your job to protect us not some foreign state that right now has bombed all the mosques in northern gaza all of the mosques have been leveled what kind of message are you sending to us the muslim community here 6000 plus and each time they kill a muslim child in gaza they celebrate they parade it on national tv for all of us to see everyone can go online and find these videos of israeli terrorist forces dancing and singing in mosques that they later demolished you can go online and find it that i will show anybody here i will show it to anybody please come and see me right after i will show you the videos thank you very much i'm gonna i'm gonna i'm gonna caution you one more time if somebody says something that you don't agree with you either you either say nothing or you need to leave the room and you can talk amongst yourselves but while you're in here you're not going to show dissatisfaction with the people that are speaking we're gonna create an environment where everybody can be heard so please let's not do that again if you support what somebody is saying just show us and we are looking we are watching what you are what you are doing um thank you so much uh joe kane um to be followed by chris gish to be followed by maya jamal jammaldeen to be followed by hyam lotish number 65 good evening good evening thank you karen i agree we should create an environment where everyone can be heard this body is anti-democratic it was anti-democratic to give an unpopular handout to the airguard with the lease extension it was anti-democratic to permanently appoint a police chief who didn't have community support and to pull the promised police oversight board measure off the ballot last week it was anti-democratic to keep city hall park ballot item off the ballot in 2019 but at least in that case you guys could cite project costs that were committed to this ballot measure outcome wouldn't cost any money but i don't doubt that there are workshop excuses in notes ready to go after you all undem democratically shut down public comment early tonight in keeping with anti-democratic tradition here direct democracy democracy measure prop zero narrowly failed last year receiving over 47 percent of the vote meaning about half of burlington believes this body should have no right to even consider an action as anti-democratic as is being considered tonight i'm here to tell you that only those blinded by privilege see our municipal government as representative and democratic it is anti-democratic that counselors are paid so poorly that the working class need not apply and it is anti-democratic that we don't have publicly funded elections this ballot measure is already the result of this body you guessed it anti-democratically succumbing to special interests in 2021 burlington deserves a council that is respectful enough of the citizenry that the personal feelings of seven or so counselors and the mayor do not outweigh what i found knocking doors since august people who by and large found our petition obvious exciting and refreshing another anti-democratic vote tonight will all but ensure a version of prop zero will pass in short order and will undermine the anti-democratic capacity of this body accelerating our trajectory toward the democracy that our incredible community deserves thank you so much our next speaker is chris gish to be followed by uh maya jamal dean to be followed by hyam lodish to be followed by amilia kane number 66 good evening good evening um i'm here tonight just to ask you all to respect democracy and let us vote on something the voters have shown is important to us one can't help getting to the sense coming to city council meetings or watching them online over the last few years that the council might not care too much about what the people think in burlington or how we want to raise our voices scuttling the slight improvement to the police commission last week telling voters before town meeting day last year how to vote on the police oversight um charter change the there's a sense that the thermal energy improvements are going to be scuttled and not get on the march ballot time and time again voters didn't uh disapprove the f-35 in 2018 council came in and said no actually we know better you have a chance to start to make that right tonight by just letting this get on the ballot organizers went through all the proper channels they gathered the signatures and people want to vote on this measure i want to just talk really briefly about some of the um disingenuous statements and untrues we've heard tonight this resolution is not anti-semitic it does not point a finger at jews it does not condemn israel if you look at the text of the resolution it says it calls quote to end all support for israel's apartheid regime settler colonialism and military occupation those are all factual statements they're backed up by leading um human rights organizations and the un this resolution is not divisive calling for quote freedom justice and equality for palestinians and all people is not divisive it's the first step to any real healing that could happen which is recognizing real oppression and real injustice in the world and raising our voice to make it right so please take this small step do your part and just let us vote on this thank you thank you so much our next speaker is maya jamal edin to be followed by hayam lodesh to be followed by emilia kane to be followed by uh muhadine batak batah uh who's number 67 good evening hi my name is maya jamal edin i'm a burlington residents i am muslim i am from lebanon and i'm really proud of those facts i am not proud to be sitting here right now begging the council to let us vote that is absolutely ridiculous but i'm not going to sit here and ask you to pretend to care about the middle eastern the palestinian the muslim the christian the jewish lives that have been lost i'm not going to sit here and ask you to care about people being murdered about people dying from infections because all of the hospitals have been bombed about people dying from starvation and dehydration i'm not going to sit here and ask for you to care about my arab and muslim clients when i'm a mental health therapist and about the death threats they've been receiving and about people calling them terrorists and things that i will not repeat because there are children watching and i will not repeat some of those words i'm not going to ask you to put yourself in my family shoes who pleaded with me not to come back to burlington after those three palestinian men were shot those boys were shot my family is worried that if i speak arabic or if i look to arab whatever that means that i'm going to be next and i share that fear but i will sit here and i will argue that we deserve the right to vote and it is so disrespectful that you cannot even pretend to care about our rights to do so someone here i'm not going to point them out said allahu akbar to me in a very condescending tone and you know what yeah allahu akbar but you know what that was meant to make me scared it didn't make me feel good but i'm still gonna sit here all i'm going to ask is for you to let us vote to do what is our right as american citizens i'm not going to ask you to pretend to care about the lives about the palestinian lives that have been lost that have been murdered is unacceptable thank you so much our next speaker is mayim lodesh to be followed by amilia kane to be followed by uh muharin batta to be followed by rach margolis please go ahead welcome good evening thank you for having me my name is haim lodesh i'm the berlington resident and i come to you to talk about the resolution tonight that has incorrect false statements israel is not an apartheid regime israel is not an apartheid state palestinian population has grown since 1948 not the same for jewish population of neighboring mediterranean arab states israel is not settler colonialism approximately 3 500 years ago the jewish people left egypt wandered the desert for 40 years and settled in the land from the river to the sea we still have the land deed as one of the oldest written documents of human history israel has the right to exist and protect itself israel is a defensive nation and when an evil group such as hamas pouring billions of dollars of humanitarian aid in over into over 220 miles of terror tunnels instead of helping their own people where's the attack on the atrocities that hamas has repeatedly carried out the final statement on the revolution are wrong beyond a reasonable doubt getting loud doesn't change the truth the people of berlington deserve better the people of berlington deserve the truth vote no thank you very much our next speaker is amilia kane to be followed by muharim bata to be followed by uh rich margolis uh to be followed by susan left number 69 good evening it's amalia amalia great thank you lovely name i'm a new mom a few blocks away my husband is home with our baby who is hopefully sleeping um it was hard to leave there tonight but babies should be safe everywhere and at the ceasefire meeting virtual speakers did not end up getting to share so here i am adding my voice in support of democracy and safety and justice for palestinians i'm a doctor here in our community and i've i'm also involved in global health i've been following a mess up doctors without borders and other international groups and the reports are apocalyptic healthcare facilities and workers are being targeted so much suffering so many lives lost um silence is complicity i collected signatures for this ballot measure and appreciated getting to meet my neighbors and do something with the pain and the suffering even something so small in our community um you've heard why this matters locally now let us vote for it thank you very much our next speaker is muhadim batta to be followed by rich margolis to be followed by susan lef to be followed by uh mazir karashti uh number number 70 good evening good evening my name moving to this country from israel i was thinking it would be just get a little bit closer if you could move into this country from israel i was thinking out it would be different than where i was born uh while uh when it came to when it comes to policies against the palestinian people i don't see much difference uh the only difference is we don't get killed is we don't get killed like palestinian uh brothers in palestine uh well by the israeli brutal occupation military anyone dares to criticize the israeli brutality against the palestinian people just bombarded uh by the old and rusty anti-semitic claims uh and if you support if you happen to be a jewish you get labeled by sylphate in jew uh check the internet but about jews against zionism or the internet and you on the internet uh you might as well find uh the difference between zionism and jizim is completely different zionism what was was uh created by theodor herzl in 1897 it looks like we are being ruled by zionist in this country uh biden is not jewish he's his zionist blinkiness the mayor of bernieton's zionist and i always wondered where's your american pride when it comes to uh palestinians uh against israeli brutality uh the resolution is for human rights and uh there's nothing to be against against it unless you're against humanity it's a human rights and you should vote yes for it 25 thousand palestinians got killed so far by israel and gaza thank you so much that's thank you our next speaker is reich margolies to be followed by susan left left left to be followed by uh march march sear carashi to be followed by uh dylan pitcher to be followed by emma emma redden number 72 good evening thank you city council for allowing each of us to have a voice here tonight my name is reich i've been a berlington resident for the past five years i picked up my son from kindergarten and told him i was planning to attend tonight's city council meeting he asked what the meeting was about i told him i was going to stand up against hate then we talked a little bit about hate what it means to hate what it feels like to be hated and then we made this sign and this is what no hate looks like to me and my son i'm here to stand up against hate against all hate against hate against jews hate against muslims and even hate against between fellow americans and i'm here so that i could tell my children that i stood up against hate thank you very much our next speaker is susan left good evening good evening uh before i begin my prepared remarks i want to talk about what we aren't talking about tonight we're not talking about two million muslims held in actual concentration camps in china we're not talking about war crimes in ukraine we're not talking about two million palestinian refugees still held or confined to refugee camps in syria lebanon and jordan we're not talking about many many many other issues that could come before the city council if this issue is being discussed at the city council um i'm here to ask you please don't put hate on the ballot in burlington apartheid is a hard word intended to evoke an emotional response and its usage in this situation isn't doesn't match with its its actual meaning the pledge we are discussing tonight is one sided unnuanced and problematic in terms of history language of the current situation this pledge brings the war on israel and gaza to burlington endangers the jewish and muslim citizens of our city burlington has significant problems with safety and justice for its citizens for its citizens right now and we should all work to solve the problems we have and not to make the less city less safe for all of us moreover most of the city most of the citizens of burlington do not have enough knowledge of the situation to have formed an informed opinion and the hateful language in this pledge seeks to influence that opinion putting us all at risk burlington currently has many issues around safety and needs to spend its time and energy solving those safety issues not introducing new issues that put the that make the city more divided and unsafe thank you those of us who live thank you very much our next speaker is masir krashi great i noticed you said you weren't sure you could stay glad that you were able to thank you my name is maser kureshi i just moved in here for peace tranquility and fairness i did not find exactly peace because one month after i've moved in here the three palestinian they've been shot on the street as far as tranquility i can't think of any better type of the people kind people polite people over here but coming to the point you are here deciding about apartheid city i'll tell you a little story i was a student in germany and a teacher of mine who was very peculiar he hated nazis he hated fascists and he hated americans because he was in a ship called m m st louis with 900 people and they refused the entry and they went back and been put in the concentration camp this person was lucky he did not have been killed but two third of them they did not so this is the issue is not Palestine is not it's a human issue if you're not human you cannot be a muslim you cannot be a jew you cannot be christian you cannot be anything please all the thing is boiled down to be that is your responsibility because one of the disappointment i had after debate i listened for peace and it was rejected how can peace be rejected now this is your responsibility because the i come across in the germany with the people those have been saying is splitting on the thank you so much our next speaker is dylan picture uh pilture to be followed by uh emma emma pedin to be followed by uh william keeter to be followed by todd lecroy who is number 74 good evening hey once again i found myself up here without anything planned no planned speech uh i guess i just want to say i'm here to support um putting this measure on the ballot i think it is an issue of democracy that people should have a choice to vote for this uh measure to make burlington an apartheid free city i don't think that calling for an end to apartheid and oppression and military occupation should be a controversial issue and i think um the people who showed up opposing it you have a right to speech and you have a right to come here and share your opinion but i would ask you guys why is it that ending apartheid and ending military occupation in the west bank ending genocide in gaza why is that a threat to your safety why is that threat to your identity as any type of person whether it be jewish or whatever um also it's not false it's a fact i mean the research shows there's plenty of documentation there's plenty of evidence there's it's blaringly obvious that the west bank is under military occupation it's blaringly obvious that gaza was put under a suffocating 20 year blockade the people of burlington have a right to vote to end apartheid this is a moral issue this is an ethical issue and i look at the city council now and i ask you please put this on the ballot we shouldn't have to beg you we shouldn't have to say please let's do something right finally american politics is renowned and infamous for being um corrupt and uh non-democratic in in serving the lobby and it's been shown that the israel lobby has written united states foreign policy word for word and we need to change from that we need to work towards humanity we need to work towards justice for all people and a great start would be saying that putting it on the ballot let the voters choose that we are at a apartheid free city and uh yeah that's all i have time for thank you thank you so much our next speaker is emma pedin pedin to be followed by william keeter to be followed by todd lecroy to be followed by amy malinovsky and for read is number 76 good evening hi thank you for having me um my name is emma i'm a preschool teacher and i'm a white ashkenazi jew it seems convenient how much the dynamics and power of whiteness have been unacknowledged tonight by many of the white Zionist Jews here i'm here to express my concern about sentiments i've heard from counselors and the mayor regarding blocking a vote on the apartheid free community's pledge the organizers worked for months gathering thousands of signatures and well past the required five percent of registered voters but i think you all know this the folks planning to let us vote on march fifth thank you to those of you planning to block our ability which i do believe is an accurate description it would be blocking i'd love to share a few thoughts based on rationales that counselors have articulated brilington has a history of debate democratic engagement and participatory democracy it feels condescending to suggest we as a community cannot hold the weight of this many people don't even have the opportunity to choose if they face this i hear language that this pledge is divisive and if you look in the dictionary divisive is defined as creating hostility i believe that killing 25 000 people 25 000 Palestinians in a few months and leveling a piece of land to rubble is what creates hostility we are simply saying allow people the opportunity to use our democratic process to say we don't believe in this kind of death instead we believe in long beautiful lives for Palestinians and for jewish-israelis you may notice the movement in brilington to support a free Palestine is a multiracial and multi-faith movement so many of us here are also jews because we understand that safety for Palestinians and for Israelis jews and for Muslims rely not on death but on organized action for freedom another critique i hear is that it is dangerous to jews to call israel an apartheid state or a colonial power um the as someone that mentioned tonight already theodore heard so one of the sort of thank you so much thank you our next speaker is william keter to be followed by todd lecroy to be followed by amy malinowski um yes and uh and for read number 76 uh so our next speaker is william keter william keter good evening yeah i'll try to be brief but um some of you maybe know this but in a at columbia university uh the police used chemical weapons against palestine solidarity protesters and those chemical weapons were developed by the idf and used against palestinians and they were used against here so that that shows a few things that shows that the us sees israel as a laboratory a testing ground for weapons they'll be used first against palestinians and then they'll be sold to the us and they'll be used against people here who fight for indigenous sovereignty and uh black liberation and you know we see that here at cop city it's just like a police colony you know and um it also shows that the democratic rights we think we have will be revoked at any moment uh if those rights start to challenge the settler state so i don't think so if you choose to actively align yourself with the oppressor i think there is no debate there's no begging we know you know we wear your conscious lies and i don't know i truly hope that you will have you know nightmares for the rest of your life um thinking about the people you failed and dispossessed but you probably don't even think about that you're only concerned about you know the property value of your real estate or something i don't really know what you people worry about but yeah thank you so much our next speaker is Todd LaCroix to be followed by Amy Malinowski to be followed by Fareed to be followed by Martha Carpenter number 77 to be followed by Jay Jonathan number 78 uh we'll continue with Fareed oh oh i'm sorry Amy my apologies Amy Malinowski thank you welcome um hi my name is Amy Malinowski um one of the things that's used to highlight our quaint or deep sense of community in Vermont is town meeting days and the practice of intimate direct democracy um indeed article 20 of the Vermont Constitution gives us the right to quote assemble together to consult for our common good to instruct our representatives yet here in Burlington the most recent efforts that people have made to hear each other out have been shut down or seriously attacked by city leadership let me be specific in 2019 Burlington voters uh worked together to collect more than 3,300 signatures asking to put an advisory question about the city hall park renovations on the ballot the city hall count the city council voted not to in 2022 Burlingtonians worked together to collect over 2,000 signatures to get the community control police charter change on the ballot because this was a charter change and not an advisory question city council couldn't stop it with a vote but they still did everything in their power to destabilize it the mayor's team formed a pack specifically to beat the charter change at the polls and spent over 13,000 dollars on lawn signs and mailing misinformation to voters furthermore counselors put forward a resolution urging Burlingtonians to vote no to the charter change with the promise that they would form a joint committee and take police accountability seriously that they would get rigorous public input quote and get a charter change on the ballot well here we are and today was supposed to be the second public hearing on that promised charter change yet last week despite the fact that it was very watered down they still voted to actually not put it on the ballot so the fact that we the people are once again in this situation is not surprising it seems to me that whenever we try to use the appropriate proper channels laid out to us city leadership tries to block it and says we should trust you as our representatives at this point why should we trust you thank you so much if only we have the ability to actually put policies on proposal and have the whole town vote for on it right so then that way the council doesn't have a monopoly on the ballot every other town every other city in Vermont has some some sort of measure of their direct democracy and this is what we were trying to do with proposition zero or question eight and which narrowly the what got defeated but we have not given up and if you are as frustrated as we are that we don't have actually any power to have a say in things that impact our lives and we can only vote for people who will make decision for us then you should get involved with the campaign to bring people more power and change the city charter I'm glad that to see some of our neighbors come out today and I'm glad to hear they're concerned about the homeless people about police violence where have you been the same people who have been standing up for serious lane are the same people who are standing up for Palestine now trust me you do not want the city council to be deciding the fate of the homeless you will see from the roll call tonight that those that support bulldozing the Palestinian homes have no problem in using state violence right here in Burlington to move people and camp homeless people from their encampment using bulldozers just pay close attention to the roll call thank you thank you so much our next speaker will be martha carpenter to be followed by jay jonathan to be followed by debra clemer laura missel and peter lakowski number 81 good evening martha hi hi good me hello hello city council and fellow community members i am here today as a teacher from full circle preschool located in the ohave zedek synagogue i love the love i feel for this community is fierce and i will do everything i can to keep all children in my care safe this evening you will hear or have already heard from our synagogue leaders who are not in support of this resolution the president of our synagogue has stated that this resolution is being driven by a small and vocal group that seeks to vilify israel and to intentionally provoke and intimidate i am sorry to the city councilors and to our jewish leaders who have been on the receiving end of our desperation if the emails and phone calls you are receiving or volatile it is because we are not feeling heard it is because the public statements being published about this conflict do not represent the reality of what is happening in israel and palestine prime minister netanyahu has made it clear in several statements that his intention is complete is rally control over gaza and an article from al jazeera posted on january 22nd with regards to the negotiation between israel and hamas prime minister net net not yahoo has been quoted full israeli security control over the entire area in the west of jordan where does this petition distort or oversimplify this very complex situation our leadership is asking us to disengage because of complexity i do not think that prime minister net and yahoo is approaching the situation with complexity in his heart i ask that you vote yes to allow this apartheid free burlington measure on the march fifth ballot please let us vote please do not impede our democratic process the challenge is not that too many believe that to promote a just political solution one should support only one side the challenge is that some of us are determined to make heard the historical truth of how israel came to be and until that is recognized how can we have a genuine conversation thank you very much our next speaker is j jonathan to be followed by deborah clemer laura missel peter lakowski and logan roots number 82 good evening all right i just want to talk about some of the points that have been brought up today some one of the most major ones is why are you guys spending your time talking about this when other things can be done well here's an answer to that you guys wouldn't have to spend the time talking about this and getting other things done if it just went directly to the ballot pretty simple like that's something that the clerk can do it's just like oh you got the signatures bring it over to the ballot then you guys can do other things and not have to have everybody come here and then do this again and again ad nauseum until we pound it in that maybe we should use this to democratic process because it actually works and another point is oh well like oh we don't have to deal with like something far away because like we have to deal with things here well when a lot of our things when a lot of our economy has to deal with like you have 35 um and then also israeli ventures into uh berylington it does affect us so that's something that needs to be considered another thing is preventing dialogue on this conversation brings in other rabbit holes for people to fall down into one of these is white nationalism when you look into richard spencer and the terrorist um andrew brevick in norway the ideology the ideology is highly and highly inspired by zionism they see it as a racial state which is which is based off of a national socialist concept known as blood and soil and they want to emulate that in the u.s so not only does that state bring in terrorism over here but it also promotes it abroad thank you for your time thank you very much our next speaker is deborah clemer to be followed by laura missel peter lakowski logan roots and christopher erin felker number 83 hi i'm deborah clemer and i'm award three um i support the resolution to be on the ballot i believe the vast majority of um people of palestine in israel they want peace in a way to coexist together the problem is humas and the israel prime minister and right-wing government don't want peace um that leaves both the citizens of both palestine and israel to suffer especially the palestinian people because they are poor and lack the resources to defend themselves and there's been a lot of talk why are we talking about it in burlington i believe we are and not just in burlington but in other cities it's because united states our government is lacks the courage or will to demand israel stop killing the palestinian people destroying palestinians homes and infrastructure destroying their cemeteries um locking up palestinians in jail um so it has to come from the grass roots like cities like burlington and portland that we have to we're basically saying this to our government we want you to take action um and and even if people in their hearts don't have compassion or empathy for the palestinians think of all the hostages they're not going to get out alive with the continued bombardment and destruction that israel government is imposing on the palestinian people thank you thank you very much our next speaker is uh laura missel to be followed by peter lakowski logan roots christopher erin felker and kit andrews who's number 84 good evening good evening thank you i'm here tonight to urge you to vote to allow the apartheid free burlington measure on the ballot coming in march fifth 2024 burlington burlingtonians deserve the chance to learn discuss and educate themselves about the difficult issues that are facing that have already been discussed tonight so i don't need to say them again related to this important topic without and this is crucial conflating the opposition of the actions by the israeli government and military and u.s. support of the israel government and their military violence with anti-semitism it's not the same i stand with the jewish forces for peace on this position voting burlington and apartheid free city would allow burlington voters to affirm their commitment to freedom justice and quality for the palestinian people and all people and declare their opposition to racism moreover this ballot item does not preclude ongoing efforts to work toward peace unity and justice close to home which i also fully support thank you for your consideration and your time thank you very much our next speaker is peter lakowski to be followed by logan roots christopher erin felker and kit andrews good evening yeah just make sure you have the mic on great push thank you apartheid when the dutch settlers the boars wanted to they finally pushed the english out and they wanted to set up a long-lasting stable society where they could rule over a subject population as masters they said they they came to the united states they studied jim crow and this has been a a study practice actually of people who want to want this uh the idea of separation segregation apartheid that's what it means apart apart would really it's um it was studied by the germans in the 30s they admired the system they thought it was a really good idea to keep the site the the nationalities the races whatever apart uh of course one on top of the other naturally and we all know how that worked out um this is uh this is a worldwide phenomenon and it is going hearts back to a top more brutal time this rule by terror by racial terror by by keeping everybody's rights quite limited and quite different the way your legal system works and so forth jimmy carter saw he knew it from georgia bishop archbishop tutu of south america he went there yep that's apartheid it's it's a it's a brutal system but i want to say this this resolution has been a great success because this has sharpened and very much what's going on in people's minds this has been one of the most successful campaigns no matter how you guys vote i gotta say i gotta hand it to this thank you so much our next speaker is logan roots to be followed by christopher erin felker kit andrews jake shuman and will lambek who is number 86 good evening you know i want to ask um why if this is a question of anti-semitism why anybody would feel comfortable attaching their faith to the most horrifically genocidal government in the world today um people aren't stupid you know they can see what's happening uh people are watching parents in gaza collect pieces of their children in bags from the street um i'll i'll speak for myself but if i were going to go around identifying myself with the perpetrators of that i would not go whining about how unsafe a petition makes me feel one that condemns apartheid do you hear yourselves but um this isn't a question of anti-semitism it's not a question of whether you agree with the text of the petition uh maybe you aren't against racism maybe uh you love apartheid or at least tolerate it as uh many people seem to um then take your opinion and vote like everybody else at the ballot this is a question of the democratic process which barely exists in this country thanks to people like you you are voting on your own legitimacy tonight you should already hang your heads in shame for voting against the ceasefire but if you're going to deny the right of people in this city to their democratic input i hope the screams of dying palestinians keep you from sleeping ever again thank you very much our next speaker is christopher erin felker to be followed by kit andrews good evening my name is christopher erin felker i'm chairman of the barlington republican party and uh sadly for the third time in the same number of years we've sitting here in this room debating israel's right to survive and defend itself it's really quite unfortunate um the misinformation being pushed upon our community the division the repeated divisiveness all completely unnecessary i don't understand really why what in essence is kind of a lame duck council is pushing this before they walk out the door um many during my outreach in the last few months many members of the jewish community have approached me and told me that they are scared of the current state of political discourse in our city the rise in antisemitism and um islamophobia because they recognize that this is a vicious pendulum that swings back and forth and ends up eradicating all of us um there's a member of my committee who sadly couldn't be here tonight and i promised that i would speak her words please vote no counselors to any initiative condemning the jewish people as a representative of a city which is experiencing unprecedented outbreak and lawlessness drugs trafficking and homelessness i would ask what means were you able to distinguish the right from the wrong in the land of israel in your search for the truth of the matter it is important that you keep in mind that according to the middle east media research institute a hamas affiliate has said that october the 7th thank you so much the first thank you so much thank you so much your your time is your time is up thank you our next speaker is kit andrews to be followed by jake shuman welcome thank you good evening my name is kit andrews i'm a resident of ward two and i'm a long time election official at my ward polling place it seems that there are two issues here people's understanding of the history and the current situation in a land far away and how that relates to the wording on the resolution and whether the voting citizens of berlington should be allowed to express their opinion on the resolution for me tonight as an elections official there's only one issue the issue of giving voice to the voting public on matters many consider to be of great importance in local reds relevance while many do not share that view versus fording the public democratic process by blocking the placement of the resolution on the ballot i'm a political activist why do i choose not to work in the field on election day on behalf of the candidates and the issues that i support passionately and instead spend 18 hours in my poll i am passionate about democracy i am passionate about enabling the people's voice i consider it an honor and a privilege to do this work why why would any one of you deny us voters the opportunity to express our opinion on this matter on march 5th when people beseech you to block this resolution if i were in your shoes i would advise them if you are against this measure then organize against it you have from now until march 5th get organized raise money for leaflets for a mailing recruit volunteers hold a press conference or two that's what leaders do when they have a strong opinion about something on the ballot they organize for these last seconds i'm gonna say i've been thinking about my parents a lot these last months they were young married in a town south of here from the late 30s to 45 did they know what was happening did they know about the ship that thank you so much i think not our next be our next speaker is jake shuman to be followed by will lamb back from one election official to another thank you kit for your service um i also want to recognize before i start speaking that tonight um there was a hostage situation in burlington when this meeting started i believe that it is now peacefully resolved and i'm grateful for that but you know that uncanny coincidence shows me that god is watching us um and what we do is important um just to recap really quickly on december 11th there was a very divisive city council meeting where action did not get taken um what our community was told by this body um was in essence that our community's opinions about the war in israel and palestine supersedes our community's ability to show support to victims of a hate crime um i think that it's important to note that what we witnessed was a precedent that is new systemic racism right if that precedent is used in the next hate crime to say we don't need to take action we don't need to denounce this that is a continuation of systemic racism we witness the creation of new systemic racism and until this council can rectify that wrong i'm going to show up every council meeting um at the next council meeting i cried at the next council meeting just last week um i said some hurtful things to members of my coalition i consider myself a participant of the palestinian solidarity coalition but i am not an organizer of it i really want to encourage everyone in this coalition with me to please question why are you here why are they here why are they there what what are we all doing because i have talked to the other side we all want the same thing and that is an end to this war show up on election day thank you thank you so much our next speaker is will lamb back to be followed by uh sorry emmerich and sandy baird and emily lightman good evening good evening counselors my name is will lamb back and i speak tonight as a member of jewish voice for peace you have heard tonight from some that putting this referendum on the ballot harms jews in burlington nothing could be further from the truth as a burlingtonian and a jew i wholeheartedly reject this proposition the proposed referendum is not anti-semitic denouncing israel's apartheid regime is not anti-semitic opposing genocide is not anti-semitic none of these things harms jews what does harm jews is slaughtering tens of thousands of palestinians and starving millions in the name of judaism and jewish safety i happen to believe that nothing does more to dishonor the memory of my ancestors killed in the holocaust than the use of our people's history of suffering to justify the commission of atrocities against another now not all jews agree with me on this in fact many would vehemently disagree some of them are in the room tonight and that's the point nobody who has testified tonight is the sole arbiter of anti-semitism and no single person can tell you what is and isn't in the best interests of jewish burlingtonians as a people we have historically had an array of opinions on the matter and that's why we put it on the ballot let the voters decide and honestly the majority of voters may vote against the referendum i really have no idea what will happen but i do know that there is no possible justification for the burlington city council to intercede and deny voters the ability to make our voices heard on this matter certainly it cannot be justified as being in the interest of the jewish people nothing could be further from the truth thank you for your time thank you very much our next speaker is uh sorry at emirate emirick uh to be followed by sandi baird uh emily lightman i'm sorry what okay great thank you for letting me know good evening okay frankly i am also at satya i am pretty appalled that we're uh even considering blocking this after spending months going through this strenuous process to do everything play by all the rules that we were given under the guise that you know we'd be given a chance to get this referendum on the ballot i'm pretty annoyed that uh a lot of the rhetoric is that we're distracting from real local issues as if a we have no part in this just because it's far away and b uh as if we can't do multiple things at once you could have instead of coming here for several hours to talk about how this is a distraction you could have been putting in some work to help your homeless neighbors that you're using as political pawns and whether or not you are you know whether or not you enjoy the wording of the referendum you it's what the vote is for it's the point of the vote you can still have that opinion and you know express it through the ballot like the concept of voting um pretty disgusted by the weaponization of i don't know just using a lot of um other conflicts to thank you very much madam president in light of the time and the motion to uh suspend the rules previously and the advice of the city attorney i would hope that i could make a motion to reconsider that motion to suspend the rules in order to eliminate the time limit and allow all the people who have signed up to speak uh to be able to speak there a lot of time it is 959 plus it is kind of information yes just because i don't know if a motion to reconsider is debatable or not if we could get a status on what what that means that would be for sure councillor uh councillor burgamy beat me to it um so i will certainly i'm happy to do that uh there are uh seven no six people left in conchoice who are burlington residents who wish to speak um including you sandy um and there are uh seven burlington residents joining us online who wish to speak uh there are uh three um non burlington residents who are either property owners or representing an organization who wish to speak and there are 34 minus what 33 um non burlington residents in conchoice and there are one two three uh five um five non burlington residents joining us online so there are 39 non burlington residents total and there are about 13 burlington residents that are waiting to speak and so in in light of the numbers and night of the fact that so many people are are leaving if i and i've made the motion to reconsider to have all the people who have spoken i would amend that to have it be uh the burlingtonians i'm in conchoice and out of conchoice and people who own property in burlington in the way that you have said that so that the only groups that would be since this is a question of democracy for the people of burlington i i i gen i'm amending what would generally be my blanket just let it until people talk but all right so the motion there's a motion to reconsider um and it would be to allow all burlington residents and burling and people that are uh non burlington residents but have identified themselves as burlington property owners or representing a burlington organization um and i believe a motion to reconsider is not debatable is that correct it is still it is debatable oh it is debatable okay great all right um so there's a second to that motion yes there's a second to that motion by councillor travers um so it is debatable um councillor bergman did you want the floor back this body has seen me um for purposes of democracy tried to keep public comment to the bloody end and uh i think that it's appropriate that uh we extend it to allow all the people that have waited for so long to be able to to speak and uh in light of the hour and light of our own debate it would make sense for uh this to be restricted to burlington residents although i'm uncomfortable with that sir any other any other councillors who wish to offer a comment before we go to a vote seeing none we'll go to a vote so this is a motion to reconsider this would allow the burlington residents either who are in person or online as well as the uh non-burlington residents who are burlington property owners or uh representatives of a burlington organization to speak president poll made just ask a point of information did we get a second did i miss that councillor travers okay thank you um all those in favor of the motion please say aye aye any opposed please say no okay so we will continue um sandy baird to be followed by emily lightman to be followed by collin palmer and hallie swan swan suss suss wine suss wine um who is number 91 sandy thank you for your patience sandy baird i'm a resident of ward one i'm also an attorney and a free speech advocate and rather a nut on free speech and democracy i strongly urge you to vote to put this on the ballot in the best of vermont new england and us tradition after all we are one of the first democracies or the first republics in the world to have fought a great revolution in honor of our great constitution so i'm speaking as a vermonter and as american in honor of our tradition particularly of town meeting i was reminded many years ago when we took up this issue i had the great honor and privilege of working with councillor bergman on forming a sister city we were the first sister city probably in the united states to have a sister city in bethlehem palestine and also in arad israel we have always sought for peace among these two people as a local issue i am urging you to to honor that tradition honor the tradition of local politics and democracy and allow the voters to vote on this issue thank you thank you very much our next speaker is emily lightman to be followed by collin palmer good evening good evening um thank you all for having me my name is emily and i am a newly minted resident of our beloved berlington and coming here i was seeking not in a spiritual sense but in a communal one i saw a community built on openness dialogue and progress i am disappointed today to see that reputation tarnished by our community itself i have had the unique privilege of traveling to both israel and the palestinian territories i have seen the many failings of the current israeli government firsthand i have also seen the failings of the pa and the deep-rooted distrust and hate and denial of humanity that blocks progress from all parties involved i have seen a denial of identity on many fronts in the land which sparks such passion among us here and i see that denial and othering seeping into our community and dividing us when we ought to be working together i hope that going forward we can engage in productive discomfort and lean into the necessary dialogue i wish to be heard about the pain our community is clearly feeling and the need for a conversation not a quote-unquote solution this is a highly charged issue and a way forward must start at the local level and be allowed to reverberate throughout the world for that reason i asked this council to vote no to the resolution we are discussing i also offer an alternative invest in our community through a charrette or other facilitated dialogue give voice to the people in a new way in a way that empowers communal conversation here's a variety of perspectives allows for the exploration of ideas and upholds democracy thank you thank you so much our next speaker is colon palmer to be followed by hallie susan wine um and fiona duckworth uh c green and nicole hansen good evening good evening do i press the green button i note as long as the microphone is on and it would be a green light in front of you cool over 30 000 palestinians have been murdered by israel and there isn't a single functioning hospital left in gaza israeli tanks block ambulances from reaching pregnant women and children with severed limbs who must be amputated without anesthesia because israel sanctions all medical aid despite the overwhelming evidence of war crimes since the first knock above 1948 burlington vermont has exported over 244 million dollars since 1996 and 15 million dollars worth of manufacturing goods in 2022 vermont is israel's 17th leading trade partner and ranks 39th among all states and exports to israel as long as we continue to trade with the settler colonialist state recently charged with genocide by south africa and the international court of justice we are complicit in an apartheid fascist regime we'd rather fund explosives disguised as cans of food planted in schools by the idf that provide funding for education housing public transportation social services just recently on sears lane homeless encampments were bulldozed they were bulldozed by our city we demand an apartheid free burlington to be put on the ballot because israel's war crimes are just as much of an international issue as much as it is a local issue and nobody has been more dangerous than the lives of 63 000 injured palestinians trapped in gaza who can't receive basic necessities because of israel's ceaseless holocaust backed by the united states thank you thank you so much our next speaker is hallie susan wine to be followed by fiona duckworth good evening good evening all right on october 7th my friend yanai kamenka was brutally murdered i waited by my phone searching for the names brutally massacred and i watched waiting for the names of the people i lost and waiting for my friends to tell me that they were alive if it wasn't for the iron dome and for bomb shelters i myself would also not be alive for those of you calling israel an apartheid state i have a question for you have you been to israel this is pure anti-semitism and hate and i see the smirks and the quiet laughs of the people upstairs earlier this is hate and this is immaturity i feel unsafe in burlington like i just heard over here i feel unsafe in burlington and on campus i'm surrounded by people who think the killing of my friends and the raping the beheading the burning and the kidnapping of my loved ones is somehow acceptable many people here only just learned about this this is my life along with many other people on both sides i urge you to vote no and to help us find a path of peace that does not alienate any citizen thank you so much next is fiona duckworth hi i'm fiona duckworth i'm a jewish student at the university of vermont and i just wanted to say the language of at the end of this question which states words like apartheid regime settler colonialism and military occupation are the only things i disagree with i want equality for all people i want palestinians to feel safe in burlington i want freedom justice and equality i also want those things for israelis i'm a jewish student who has watched so many of my peers break down over carelessness language that hurts our identity i have broken down over careless words i support a resolution to this conflict i also want to bring attention that the language surrounding this conflict requires nuance and requires thought and it requires conversation and the language of this question is not supporting that i urge you to vote no and support a conversation that of this and promotes peace for our community in burlington thank you very much our next speaker is c green to be followed by uh the last burlington resident who was just speaking con choice uh nicole hanson good evening good evening my name is c green and i am a burlington city resident put simply i am asking you to put the apartheid free city referendum on the ballot in march there's been a lot of discussion about the fact that this is not a burlington issue and i think all the signatures by people who signed that petition indicates that it is so it is simply them asking you to let the people of burlington decide how they feel i support the resolution and i want to vote on it and i am terrified to vote on it because if i vote on it everyone else will and if everyone else will there is a good chance i fear that we will vote no just as last december the city council voted no for a ceasefire i did not prepare words when i came here today because in trying to be a political person something as important is like tactics and like who are you speaking to what will they care about what do they want to hear and when i prepared to speak last time all i could think about was how many people had died and i thought that was the only tactic i needed and i thought that was a mic drop and mic drop is a bad turn of phrase to use because it's disrespectful in fact and it wasn't and now i'm like what what what could i say that's better than that what could we all say that's better than like tens of thousands of people have been killed we think that's a problem we're asking you to simply say that that killing should stop and it's no i also wanted to say that i don't have enough time thank you so much uh and our last speaker burlington resident joining us in con choice is uh nicole hanson i am a palestinian and i've never been to palestine because israel is an apartheid state i urge you to vote yes on putting the apartheid free measure on the ballot the walls in the west bank don't just separate israelis from palestinians but they separate palestinians from palestinians my family can't move from village to village because of the checkpoints and barricades my 90-year-old grandmother still weeps because she will never be able to go home i can't step on i can't step foot on the land i am indigenous to but any non-palestinian can travel freely there that is what an apartheid state looks like our tax dollars fund apartheid when it can go towards solving issues here in burlington let us vote against apartheid and let us be a democracy thank you thank you very much so we have a number of people that are joint that are burlington residents that are joining us online and we'll put the timer up and go go to them the first speaker is robert edder and um uh robert i don't see you online if you are uh just let me know and you can just use the raise hand function uh the next speaker is uh zev chason and i did see you yes you should be able to speak now if you just unmute your microphone hello my name is sieva levina chason i'm a proud jewish woman i grew up in burlington my oboe was veraba of the hollywood's eddick until 2015 i'd like to thank the council for attempting to stay full democracy you're making my job as a radical so much easier i don't even have to open my mouth for people to see what a joke america's quote unquote democracy is you have a fig leaf of burlington's absolutism barely covering the undemocratic nature of this part of the empire and decay you can't be of a body that delivers justice to anyone what you can do is what i recommend burlington jewish jewish misleadership do as well get out of the way and let the people's voices be heard the substance of truth does not change nor is the substance of freedom the truth is that for this resolution is not simply a foreign policy issue isham al-ratani kenan abdal amid and tushin ali amad were shot in the neighborhood i grew up in the truth is that zionism is not compatible with judaism you don't need to be a jew to be a zionist you just need to be a racist the truth is equating israelan zionism with jews and judaism is deeply anti-semitic the truth is israel is guilty of genocide not apartheid jewish freedom can't come from the bloody hands of america but a country that welcomed remnants of the third rike nor can it come from israel a country founded on the words of theater hard soul quote the anti-semites will become our most dependable friends and quote treating these countries as friends of the jewish people as nothing less than leading our people to a slaughter at the hands of a crumbling empire as it reaches frantically for scapegoats the truth is jewish freedom will always and forever be found in a fight against injustice proudly standing side by side with our palestinian siblings finally we're talking about a genocide fuck civility fuck respecting this body that can't even allow a facade of democracy all consider civility after a ceasefire not before don't fucking count on it though along with palestine thank you so much seve the next speaker is valerie gullberg and there is someone who's just under the name val not sure if this is you i have enabled your microphone if you could unmute and just let me know if you're the person i'm looking for hi yes this is me thank you sure um i'm i'm a little bit shocked that we're allowed to using f bombs and that's not being upheld but i'm a mother i am a woman and i am looking for my fellow women's rights leaders i am looking for there are women right now in captivity held hostage by from us and our liberal city that respects women are okay with them being raped okay with them having no medical care and we are okay with having hostages we cannot accept no on this ballot because definitions and words have meaning people are keep on defining what genocide is there is no genocide in gas in gaza we can't just redefine words we cannot rewrite history and that is what has been a horrible you've just sit here and i i'm not a cowardless person that will not put my face on it i am a mother of two i have a baby that's at home i have to be at home for my children the the problem here is that the safety of our children in vermont is not taking responsibility my my child's my three-year-old's daughter's teacher just came up and said lies and horrible things about jewish people let's take this back to the reality one we cannot rewrite history jews have the most archaeological research that shows that we are indigenous to the land of israel so we cannot say that they're colonizers if you are indigenous you cannot be a colonizer there is no there is no apartheid that is artifactual so now we're talking about emotions and we are trying to rewrite history it is our opportunity to be able to say that as women as people that believe in rights that it's our responsibility as a community to say we are not going to stand up for lies and hatred and we must say that as a democratic place that we're not going to just decide that we're going to rewrite history vote no vote for peace vote for vote for to free the hostages vote for humanity and vote to support israel thank you so much our next speaker is patricia miers and patricia i have found you and enabled your microphone you should be able to speak now thank you i am i'm in word seven i thank you for the opportunity to give public comment and i appreciate the heart of brolin tonians who are concerned for citizens around the world and specifically in the middle east i too am very concerned however placing this item on our ballot in march is totally inappropriate but why would we ask brolin tonians to elevate one people group over another i don't think that's loving concern in this case it is outright antisemitism and i know that i speak for most of us who live in brolin ton who do not support antisemitism we must support our jewish population and others and all i urge the city councillors to vote to not place this item on the ballot thank you for this time thank you so much our next speaker is our next speaker oh i'm i'm listening to myself our next speaker is sharon busher and sharon i did find you and i've enabled your microphone yes thank you president call you were echoing a little bit for me am i echoing no you're not i i figured out the echoing problem so we should be fine now okay all right thank you um i'm actually not going to speak on this topic i might make a comment at the end so i want all of you to use another brain cell um i'm just going to speak on something that your work session and i was very concerned for the council and for the residents of burlington with how rushed the presentation was for you to consider adding a city tax to the ballot and i really am concerned that there is not there is not enough time to make a good decision and a lot of questions were raised and a lot of information needed um i am i i also would like you to consider if indeed you support something like this to think about phasing it in so that you could reduce the total tax amount and maybe phase it in over that year um so that the impact could be like half of what you're going to propose the cumulative impact of of city and school taxes will be detrimental to everyone in burlington who tries to find affordable housing um the other thing that i wanted to say was that um i'm not well versed in in the resolution before you but the atrocities that i see on tv the suffering and the disproportionate death in gaza versus what happened to israel israelis i feel is is something that that needs to be addressed everywhere and in our community i think there's a history of having this i think putting it on the ballot is appropriate but also as people have said to have dialogues in our community to try to get to understand each other and to start healing and establish understanding it's not either or thank you thank you so much our next speaker is uh farine paris and farine i did find you and have enabled your microphone thank you so much council president um it's been a long night for everybody and uh trying to honor uh the various states of mind hearts and spirits that we're all holding um i think for me uh in trying to be mindful of not repeating information a reflection that i'm sitting here with on this evening is remembering a declaration that many people on this council supported uh july 17th 2020 our committee's declaration of racism as a public health emergency and in this um whether it's this issue right now reflecting on what's happening with our um within palestine and israel if it's reflecting on what is happening with um uh the energy and uh conflict happening within our brown and black community if it's reflecting on what happened with uh youth boys of color being charged as adults i keep coming back so we as a as a community said that we understood that racism was a public health emergency yet we have wavered away from that over the last three plus years and i am thinking about just all the harm that is existing in this room um whether you're for or against uh this uh vote this being on the ballot what i am deeply concerned about is the just collective state of our community i'm concerned about all of you as council members it is very clear um that you are holding so much you keep kind of showing up on these mondays and i don't know if i have all the faith and confidence that you are even in the right place to hold what it will mean to vote this evening because you two are human and uh i'm just inviting all of us to then just reflect on the fact that we're really fighting over the fact that people just want to have a democracy thank you so much uh the last uh burlington resident who is joining us online is d gram and i have found you and enabled your microphone go ahead please can you hear me yes we can go ahead great thank you um i am going to keep this short and sweet um because many of my comrades um in support of the palestinian um liberation struggle and in support of passing this resolution have already said many poignant um wonderful things and thank you so much everybody for speaking out um yeah i think it's this particular thing right now is pretty simple just put it on the ballot everyone here has lots of different opinions i have lots of opinions about those opinions but just put it on the ballot let us do it um this is really giving like community control police 2020 to 2022 um just please vote yes thanks thank you very much oh i want to keep the rest of my time for all city counselors to just think about all of this and as someone said before if you don't vote yes on this i really do hope that you also hear the screams of all the palestinian people who are currently dying and will continue to die thank you very much we do have one person who is online who has used the raise hand function as i said earlier um there's going to be no exceptions to the rule that you need to register in order to speak during public forum so uh if you if you do that before we finish public forum then i'm happy to recognize you if you are a burlington resident if not i'm unable to do that so we'll return back to con toys and there are three uh either uh uh non-burlington residents who are either burlington property owners or representatives of a burlington-based organization and uh we'll do them in the order that they um they filled out the form so the first is Naomi Burrell to be followed by Wafiq Faior to be followed by uh topaz weiss good evening everybody thank you for giving me an opportunity to speak i am the director of youth education at ojaviz eddick synagogue i speak to tonight a someone who has a degree in middle east history who has done peace work amongst jews muslims and christians more importantly i speak here as a jewish educator who has worked in this community for many years in my position i work with a wide variety of populations from toddlers to adults and i can tell you that this jewish community is scared we have preschool parents who are afraid to bring their kids to the synagogue for school i have teens who are being verbally attacked in the hallways and lunchrooms of their middle schools and high schools i have uvm students teaching at our religious school who are exhausted by the situation on campus and now just yesterday i heard about an elementary school child being singled out for being jewish by their peers in second grade this is antisemitism pure and simple i'm sure that the city council did not intend for this possible ballot measure to become a catalyst for this wave of hatred unfortunately many in this city are equating antisemitism and anti-israel rhetoric with antisemitism and acting upon it burlington jewish families are afraid and their fear will only increase if the council decides to vote yes giving a green light to this discrimination the idea of seeing lawn signs about this possible ballot measure while driving to work or the grocery store would be disturbing at best and cast the very complicated middle east conflict into a stark yes or no light where even well-informed people are challenged to grasp all the nuances this ballot measure is destructive and will serve no purpose other than to foment more division something that a progressive city such as burlington should reject i asked the city council to put a stop to this now by voting no let's take our issues into a more constructive direction thank you so much um so just for the council we'll finish the last two people to speak in public form and then we'll go to a motion to suspend our rules the next speaker is wafiq fior to be followed by topaz weiss good evening good evening salamu alaikum thank you for opening this discussion i am a palestinian refugee and i am a product of the israeli occupation and apartheid you can talk about apartheid denying it compared to anti-semitism as much as you want but first i want to discuss that it is a local issue as long as united states support the state of israel send it weapons and part of the war room in israel your taxpayer and your responsibility to stop that you want to solve the housing problem and health care problem in this town is top aid to israel and now the second thing i am here for opening dialogue as they say how this problem can be solved and we have to copy another kind of apartheid happen in south africa when it happened this community said it is apartheid and many other communities announced it's apartheid and after that the boycott of south africa brought justice and reconciliation you have to put the pressure on israel you cannot close your eyes on it why because you are part of this problem all of you part of this problem the last thing we believed you when we went for the ballot and we collected signatures respect your democracy otherwise nobody will believe it vote yes thank you so much i was mistaken there actually are two other people i i did not realize and we're just going to go in the order that they were that they submitted a form the next speaker is serjay ship honor ship honor i'm sorry what spanner thank you so much welcome is it done yes go ahead please thank you folks this is the third time in less than three years second time in six weeks tonight we ask the council not merely to reject this thrice recycle toxic hate but to look the jewish community of burlington in the eye and tell us that this is not coming back that our spiritual and civic leaders will not be thus harassed again in 2021 upon hearing community's response the proponents had pleaded surprise and ignorance they apologized for unknowingly having scheduled public debate right before yom kippur last december no more no more pretence they openly taunted us right in this room with wishes of happy hanukkah while pushing their poison they scoffed at the harm to the community what is so divisive as if deaf and blind to the tension right around them they snidely lectured the rabbis in front of them on what counts as anti-semitism we all know that white supremacist comments are still racist even if uttered by people of color yet the proponents will shamelessly launder their own hate through people of jewish descent and expect to be absolved even if you think that burlington is so prosperous clean and safe that we've got nothing left to do but fix the middle east this resolution was never about fixing in december they killed an alternative statement that merely expressed empathy for crime victims that's because what drives their proposals is not empathy but hate they talk about rights of the oppressed thank you so much our next speaker is marina followed by and our last speaker is topaz weiss dear members of the city council i'm speaking here today as a jewish refugee from the former soviet union i grew up with the vilification of israel in the media and by the government agents regardless of israel's actual actions or historical events my parents brought me to the yes to escape such harmful rhetoric and the inevitable anti-semitism and discrimination stemming from it my father a holocaust survivor passed away this past december he recalled that despite his early experiences with anti-semitism in ukraine the turning point for him was the arab-israeli war of 1967 when the soviet propaganda switched off overnight from casting israel as our socialist friend to casting israel as an oppressor after israel won this war of self-defense since that time he knew that he wanted to emigrate to the west fast forward a decade and i was called a kike at the age of five while while my husband was called an israeli aggressor these terms were interchangeable and normalized in the soviet union neither of us knew what the terms meant and so began our practical practical education and anti-semitism at the age of five i have vivid memories of thinking through my options when a drunk was punching the air and screaming about the jews selling mother rusher in a train car i remember wondering who would stand up to protect me if he figured out i were jewish i decided to hide in my book instead of taking the risk of switching train cars and attracting attentions since the brutal attacks by hamas on the israeli civilians in october and the war that followed i have felt increasingly unsafe for myself and my children in our community anti-israel rhetoric may mean nothing to you but i know that it eventually leads to violence against the jews across the world and not just in the soviet union when hamas calls for a global day of rage that may feel like a remote possibility but for me it invokes the regular threats of a jewish pogrom from the russian anti-semit anti-semites i experienced as a teenager it takes a lot of effort to stay strong dr martin luther king jr wrote that had he lived in nazi germany he would have helped and confronted my jewish brothers even through it was illegal thank you so much our last speaker is topas weiss welcome good evening thank you where the world is breaking and we all want to feel like there is something that we can do and i think that this referendum isn't at fault with jewish community here for those of us who may be the product of anti-semites thank you so much and that um that will conclude our public forum thank you all thank you to everyone who came and spoke with us um we have we are beyond the hour of 10 30 uh in order for us to proceed we need a motion to suspend our rules um and i would encourage us to have that motion uh to include um completing our agenda so i would so move the uh suspension of the rules to complete our agenda thank you so much councillor bergman seconded by seconded by councillor jang um i assume there's no comment on that uh so we will go to a vote all those in favor of the motion to suspend our rules to complete our agenda please say aye aye any opposed please say no so that passes we will continue with our agenda the next item that brings us to our deliberative agenda we only have one item on our on our deliberative agenda and um we'll do our best to keep to that uh in terms of uh the only thing i just wanted to remind councillors of is our five-minute rule um please self monitor and be mindful of your time uh that means that when you begin speaking uh you have five minutes and that is per round and we'll see if we can't bring this to a a close after a round or two um if you do pass by it pass the five-minute rule i will interrupt i will kindly interrupt you when your time is drawing near um and would ask that you just be respectful of all other councillors by keeping to that rule the first the the first and only item on our deliberative agenda is 5.1 which is a resolution march 5 2024 the annual city meeting an advisory ballot question regarding the pledge of the mayor and city council and for this item i will go to councillor bergman for a motion so i would move to waive the reading and adopt the resolution putting the petition ballot item on the town meeting day ballot and ask for the floor back after a second thank you so much seconded by second seconded by councillor mcgee uh councillor bergman you have the floor back um uh councillor hightower i do see that your hand is raised and we'll go to you after go ahead councillor bergman thank you so why am i sponsoring this resolution and voting to put this question on the ballot the fundamental reason is to support democracy i've done this for over 40 years petitioning and placing questions on the ballot just one example the nuclear freeze ballot item in march 1981 like usa to israel my and your tax dollars were directly at issue and many lives in the livability of the planet were and are at stake but more than the particulars it was and is about the right of people to have a real and meaningful say on the issues that matter most to them and when sit over 1600 verified voters sign a petition asking for an issue to be brought to a community vote that means that the issue matters to them and that they believe voting is real and meaningful i've looked at every single email that we've gotten and i have been struck by how widespread the support for placing this question on the ballot has been in my ward ward two i'm also struck by how widespread the support is throughout the city in all wards i believe we owe it to all burlington voters to have the right to cast their votes on this question of great concern denying that right deny that right and we weaken democracy and i cannot do that in good conscience i want to briefly respond to some of the criticisms um there's been a credit there's a criticism that putting this on the ballot is decisive it is just plain clear that our community is divided on this issue and keeping this off the ballot will not bring this community together far too many people have signed this petition and called on us to put it on to have unity to be to have unity be the outcome of keeping it off the ballot the war in gaza the occupation of the west bank the calls of net and yahoo rejecting a palestinian state and for israeli control from the jordan to the mediterranean these all feed the conflict calls for the elimination of all jews from the land due to the cycle of hate and despair is at least a century in the making acts on the ground there feed the belief that violence is the way to bring security and liberation and we and the rest of the world will continue to be divided until there is a piece that addresses the root causes of this conflict keeping this item off the ballot and ending the city-wide debate on that and the issues will not change that the organized opposition has particular criticism about the pledge part of the of the question they argue these characterizations are wrong and therefore we should not place it on the ballot they also say that it's one-sided and doesn't condemn atrocities and mistreatment by other countries against their own peoples say in china miamar and syria to this i say this is what elections are for let us have a civil honest and full debate on apartheid and democracy in israel on settler colonialism and the displacement and rights of return to palestinians on the military occupation of the west bank the blockade of gaza and net and yahoo's claim that israel must militarily gut control the land from the jordan to the mediterranean so jews can be safe voting to place this ballot this question on the ballot does not say you agree with one side of the other it says supporters and opponents can and should have that debate and in the end the voters will decide who they agree with this council could even sponsor such a debate don't deny the voters of burlington this opportunity by keeping the petition question off the ballot i am struck by how many opponents scolded us by saying that we weren't elected to act on this initiative to stop wasting time energy and money on it and to just do the job we're elected to because this is just so wrong we have to act on this because it was brought by the voters to us and this is our job that we were elected to do i also want to say that what we do on the international stage is not a waste of time it matters when we voted for the freeze in 1981 only a few towns in western mass had done so and we were joined by only 11 towns in the in in vermont that year but you know what the next year virtually every town in vermont did the same a million people and i was there marched in new york city millions rose up around the world and reagan actually took heed and he and gorbachev started negotiating our petition and the council putting on the ballot in 1981 made a difference i might have more to say on the conflation of criticism of zionism and israel and anti-semitism on the fears that many jews have for their safety and on boycotts and divestment and sanctions but i'll wait for the next round and only go over by 11 seconds thank you councillor bergman we'll go to councillor high tower and then councillor travers great thank you um and i'm sorry i couldn't join you all tonight in person i already had a work trip planned when this ad hoc meeting was called so i'm calling in from north callina um i have learned a lot from the conversations i've had with people on both sides of these issues as well as people who are more in the middle on these issues people have sent me books and articles and statistics and i've absorbed what i can with the time that i have to dedicate to this issue and i do wish that things came to the council less because i'm afraid that there's not a lot of people who listen and learn and change because of what they've learned and so i don't think there's many of us um however like we don't have control individually over what comes to the council collectively and we do do need to be more educated on this issue and i think in particular as a city that has had a hate crime happen in our city we need to show that we need to come together and that hate has no room here and we need to have a conversation about what happened and that said um although i will vote to put this on the ballot to hear from more people and i think that's important i also have to say that i think there's speakers who speak in public forum especially people mostly people who have no personal ties to this issue and then speak in the most violent terms and i don't know what people's heart is or their intentions but sometimes it doesn't feel like it is to educate or to change mine but simply that people are unaffected by the pictures they paint and i would just ask those of us in the community who are speaking in that way to choose a different path because some of us are affected who have to sit here and listen and some people in our community have lost someone because of this war and there's people in our community who are afraid and while i believe that it's true that anti-sionism is not anti-semitic anti-semitism i think it's also true that speaking violently and dehumanizing people causes violence and dehumanization hate creates more hate and regardless of the target an intended target of hate usually the final victims are people who don't have a lot of power but regardless of what happens tonight or in addition to what happens tonight i guess my pledge will be that i'll work with other counselors to bring forward a resolution to have a conversation that promotes discourse in our community because we do need to have the conversation and to me to have it somewhere where there's no two-minute beepers no where Karen isn't forced to interrupt folks where there's no hardening of hearts there's no resolutions on the table there's no winning or losing it's just a conversation because i think that's also what our community needs the first resolution that came out of this was the bds resolution which i would have voted no on because of the folks from the jewish community who came forward and said that they didn't want it to go forward and the resolution was tabled so we had this divisive conversation and we had no action um and the second resolution that came last month i felt like we could no longer avoid this issue given how this issue came to our city and i just want to remind people that one of the three men who was shot explicitly asked us to not only think of him and not only have empathy for him but to think of the dehumanization of all of the other panacea palestinians like him um that have become collateral in a conflict that they have no control owner and i feel like i have to honor that request and that means that we not only have to have this conversation but we also have to act and i do think that as birmingham we have a responsibility for that um given what happened here in our community and so i supported the second resolution after i amended it to name hamas the hamas attacks as an act of terrorism this language was brought by the community after the council could not find language or could not come to conclusion and i've never seen a community bring a measure so quickly with percent of the signatures so quickly and today the new york times read an article on how um civilian deaths in israel are going down based on pressure from the us and others um to reduce civilian deaths during the conflict based on pressure of their populations and so i just want to say that what we do here matters and again burlington i think has a unique responsibility after after what happened here thank and all that said i think i've got a couple more seconds is that i would amend it um i don't i after much education i understand that the rhetoric um i that the israeli regime is an apartheid regime i don't understand how we work to end the settler colonialism i kind of have some ideas for how we do that in the us i don't have an idea of how to do that anywhere else in the world so i don't love that that's in there and i wish that we had instead included language around a ceasefire that i think is easier to support and that we know what that looks like thank you thank you very much so we'll go to councillor travers and then councillor king thank you president paul um first let me say that i do appreciate the effort organizers put into collecting petition signatures and recognize that this was no doubt no easy feat uh i will however be respectfully voting against placing the proposed referendum on our ballot let me start by saying there are multiple examples from here in burlington and across the state from city council select boards and school boards electing against placing petition for questions before their voters it's well settled by our supreme court here in vermont that quote when a petition seeks a vote on an item that is outside of the voter's authority to decide and its result would have no binding effect the city is not required to include it in a city wide vote end quote i agree with council bergman we've received hundreds if not thousands of communications from constituents on this item in my estimation our community certainly in my own ward we are more evenly divided um in terms of who is for placing this item on the ballot and who is against it in considering our vote on this item the biggest concern for me is the hundreds of comments we've received and heard from members of our community who are unsettled hurt and afraid that for the third time in two years their city council is taking up a measure that is solely critical of israel here in burlington and around the globe acts of both antisemitism and islamophobia are on the rise our local houses of worship have felt the need to hire security to protect their members including their youngest members our school district recently sent a letter to parents about how our jewish and muslim kids are feeling unsafe and unwelcome in our community we saw tonight that when a young woman bravely spoke and pleaded with this room to not equate what is occurring in gaza to the extermination of six million jews in the holocaust she was widely met with laughter and as i'm making my comments here i continue to hear laughter in the audience and we question why those folks would feel unsettled and unsafe on the city council and in our community i appreciate that most have been able to engage in civil discourse over our differences this is not true for many however and the differences of opinion on this issue are often charged i'm deeply concerned that placing this question on our ballot is more likely to cause further division and harm in our community than it is to solve the tragedies that continue to unfold in the middle east is a voter who is against this measure supposed to feel comfortable publishing an online post speaking out at a public meeting or placing a sign in their front yard encouraging their neighbors to vote no on this measure will they too be told they love racism that they love apartheid that they are pro genocide i hear folks in the audience saying yes well nightmares be wished upon them for the rest of their lives will threats be made against them and their families as city counselors it is our role to put the safety and well-being of our local community first and foremost when we put a question on the ballot burlingtonians must be able to freely state their opinions on this question without having to worry about harm or ridicule being directed their way that is not the case here in coming to my decision on this ballot measure i have also pushed myself to consider the good that may come out of the proposed question i respect that while the question is far from perfect it may spur productive community dialogue and debate to that extent uh to the extent we've been able to have some of that productive debate tonight i agree with the speaker who said that this has been a successful campaign we do not need this ballot question though to keep this discussion going and i would be happy to join councillor hightower in supporting any efforts that foster open and respectful community discussions on this issue and the issues surrounding the proposed referendum thank you thank you so much councillor travers we'll go to councillor king over the past many weeks i've engaged on this complex and sensitive issue attending meetings taking calls having conversations with individuals who hold diverse viewpoints during each interaction i witnessed a deep sense of care compassion and genuine engagement from our community members to the organizers who work diligently to gather the signatures needed for the item today i extend my recognition of the hard work and passion that went into organizing on december 11th i voted in favor of the ceasefire resolution reflecting what i viewed as an as a desire for an immediate end to violence today however we face a different question a question which has been written in a way that is inherently one-sided as one of my constituents phrased it the proper response to inhumanity is to call out all inhumanity i want to echo the sentiments of congresswoman beca ballant who in her statement calling for a true negotiated ceasefire said i understand that many vermonters feel as i do deeply distraught by this conflict we want to see an immediate end to the violence and the realization of palestinian self-governance including economic and physical security her call for a ceasefire coupled with a plea for increased robust humanitarian aid to gaza resonates with the shared values of our community israel as she emphasized has a moral responsibility to protect civilians at all costs even in the midst of war this petition is placed on the town meeting day ballot would increase the division in our community that is being caused by well intentioned community members with diverse viewpoints on the complex issues involved further i've heard from members of our community on all sides of these issues they do not feel safe in berlington even tonight i watched multiple young ward 8 residents present to us in tears literally begging us to do what we can from the council table to protect them i would much prefer that members from groups with differing viewpoints in our community find ways to dialogue with each other in an effort to promote peace rather than further divide our community i actively support putting time and resources towards fostering a dialogue for the community to better understand the conflict and learn about tangible ways to contribute to much needed humanitarian efforts this issue is undeniably painful and complicated i recognize the deep emotions that evokes within our community and truly hope we can find a path forward thank you so much councillor king uh are there any other councillors that wish to speak councillor mickey thank you president paul this room is the most tangible access the people in berlington have to their government whether it's local government us here in the city council the mayor's office the state government or the federal government this is a table where people can have their voice heard and this city has a long history of standing against oppression and apartheid especially those actions that are supported by your own government and with our own tax dollars so i support putting this question on the ballot in march and i recognize how much effort goes into collecting signatures 1600 signatures five percent more than five percent of berlington voters have made their voice heard and said that they think that this city should vote on this issue and i don't think it's our place to stand in the way of that having this debate during an election is exactly what democracy is about we are supposed to have these conversations and we are supposed to disagree and at times it's going to be tense but we owe it to ourselves and to each other to show up and have those conversations in as many venues as we can and unfortunately in the climate that we exist in today with social media and being able to hide behind a keyboard it is much too easy to say hateful things without having to look somebody in the eye and i think we owe it all to ourselves to show up in person as much as we can and find our common humanity in these conversations i say again that this room is the most tangible access to government that berlington residents have and the ballot and the ability to put advisory questions on it is the most direct form of democracy that we all have this council should not stand in the way of the people's right in a democracy to make their voice heard at the ballot box and that's why i'll be supporting this measure tonight thank you thank you so much councillor mickey is there any other councillor who wishes to speak to this councillor carpenter yes thank you um the previous speakers are really very articulate and i don't want to repeat um what what they have said but i i cannot support putting this on the ballot the the vermont tradition that allows advisory non-binding referendums was structured um for our common good and what i have heard and felt and seen from people um this ballot i will not serve the common good of the citizens of vermont i mean i have somebody probably in this room has been to more town meetings i've seen the purpose of that and it it is to um bring back to our citizens the support they need the the pledge itself the first part of the pledge i think many speakers have acknowledged of course i oppose oppression i can affirm that i can affirm most of the stuff in the in the first three stands as of the pledge but i don't know what an apartheid apartheid free city means in terms of my governance what no one's explained that to me how do you implement that it's a statement it's a pledge and i think we need the dialogue that we're all talking about we need to facilitate that i too would agree with um council high tower that um we we ought to facilitate that the final stands that people refer to as being undisputable well it is disputable we've heard a lot and i have to say i've learned a lot about the history of middle east in this conversation and i want to learn more about that but i'm not ready to pick sides and that's what this this feels like we've been acknowledging all of the terror all of the murders all of the war crimes in the world and we need to collectively um not have that but one particular ballot item we'd be balloting every meeting if we picked aside every meeting and i think conversation is the way we do it i grew up in burlington and then we have a strong history of um doing the right thing supporting interfaith activities i those of you in the room are probably too young to remember rabbi max qual bishop robert joce who brought us together in the early um conversations about the vietnam war we do have a tradition but this ballot item is not going to get us um that way it's sitting down i do appreciate the invitation from the jewish voices for peace who reached out to personally talk to me i also appreciate the reach out from the partnership for peace those are the kind of conversations i want those folks in the room to have a conversation and i also want the almost 400 people who emailed me with well cast personal um please to not put this on the bottom it wasn't a it wasn't a you know a form letter it was all of their personal needs quite varied um i would love it if we could take all those emails and sit down and share them with each other and and talk about them and again this ballot item while it has certainly induced conversation doesn't get us where it doesn't get us to the common good that we need to promote peace in our community thank you thank you so much counselor carpenter i would like to remind everyone that is still here uh we're glad that you're here uh we we all listened to everything that all of you had to say and i think we did so respectfully i would ask the same of all of you there doesn't need to be any side comments um this is not a place to judge this is a place for everyone to be able to have the opportunity to speak so let's please keep that in mind are there any other counselors before we go back to counselor bergman on the first round is there any other counselor counselor uh counselor grant and then we'll go to you and then we'll go to you counselor grant thank you um i have a lot of little things they may seem all over the place but i believe that they're relevant uh first of all i do support uh the college students who shared their story um you know uvm in the last couple years uh had a great deal of controversy with regards to the way they um did not react to charges of anti-semitism and part of um president garamela's statement at the time was uvm is a community with a long proud history of inclusiveness we denounce hateful actions and respond briskly and decisively whenever those responsible are identified so i only assume that someone wrote that for him because it's not true and i know this because i as a young black woman was a student at the university of vermont university of ron has a lot of problems had a lot of problems and i just assume he had somebody write that for him because he's only been here for a few years um so shout out to uvm you can still do better now a quote net now whose governments and discriminant bombing is immoral it is in violation of international law and the congress must demand answers about the conduct of this campaign a just cause for war does not excuse atrocities in the conduct of that war uh that was said by bernie sanders as he's been trying to work to have accountability in in what's happening with the the indiscriminate killing that's so indiscriminate that three hostages were killed so we really need to think about this thing we need to think about the fact it's tens of thousands of people mostly innocent women and children and when i look at this ballot item first i take it as a separate concept of the fact that it should go on the ballot it if we want to talk about vibrant democracy there's a lot of emails that said vibrant democracy it would be vibrant democracy to put it on the ballot and then people would make their decision if they're going to vote for it um i would support it because i believe that this special relationship our country has always had with israel and we have sent billions of dollars and we have sent weapons we have not sent billions of dollars and weapons to china to oppress the muslims there it's not an equivalent uh and there were a number of other examples together and they're and they're not the same because we're not sending all that money there that we could use here so there needs to be some accountability uh with regards to fear in the community i'm afraid in the community it's it's nothing new it's nothing new um as i've been doing work for some time now dealing with equity and policing and i can tell you there are many people in this town that do feel fear because they can't count uh from a public safety standpoint that they will get the help they need should they need it and that's been a long-standing problem on regarding discrimination uh bias and racism in our schools it's a terrible terrible problem and has been for some time and i do respect the superintendent i've discussed this with him he he realizes what's going on i believe what we're seeing now with with more discrimination against our muslim students who have had to deal with it for quite some time and our black students have had to deal with it for quite some time now we're seeing this with our jewish students so we clearly within our school schools need to do more education we have to get that education home too because there's a lot of issues with with parents i'm happy to talk to people about apartheid you know the fact that apartheid's not being recognized the occupied territories are occupied right the occupied territories are occupied and there is a system of apartheid whoever dropped off all this like needs to be copied everybody needs to read all of this everyone needs to listen to the um south africa's presentation very very important someone referred to videos earlier in that presentation they were referred to as quote unquote snuff films populating the internet this is a huge issue and to say that it is divisive and hate is being division is already here division in our conversation about public safety and equity and policing and accountability this conversation division is already here we do not treat people the same we are not as progressive as we pretend to be right that's not true we literally have had maga talking points around public safety in our city so i think we need to be real about um some of our discussions i really do thank you thank you uh so we will we will um council uh councilor barlow please go ahead um thank you president paul the hour is late so i'll be really brief but i want to acknowledge that this issue does divide our community and one that makes community members feel unsafe we've heard that tonight um and we've heard it in a lot of the emails we've received as well i spoke at length today with two individuals one supporting the ballot item and one opposing both had heartfelt and reasoned arguments for their position and neither are wrong but one thing's obvious to me and has been obvious to me that the ballot is not a healthy way to continue our community conversation and find some common understanding on this or unity on this really complicated topic um it's really hard to distill this into a yes or no answer um and a ballot question um and i just want to add that i would join councilors high tower and others who said that they would support some council action that would um promote a facilitated community dialogue of some kind on this so thank you thank you so much councilor barlow uh any others who wish to speak on the first round councilor jang yes go ahead thank you president thank you members of the city council and people who brought this petition forward i think it has been very clear that the words that we heard here and we've been hearing about these issues complicated divisive unsafe this is basically the third time in two years the city council is targeting the jewish community which is actually untrue it's inaccurate let's just tell the truth we all members of this community we all love this community at the same time we all understand that what's happening between israel and palestine is completely wrong let's just call it a genocide let's just call it that people are being killed every single day people are finding their babies and putting them in bags because they are in pieces that's a fundamental problem and i also know that many of the jewish community we know that we love you we love each other we know that debates need to happen but at the same time this is not the problem what we have in front of us is not about how we feel about this issue this is about democracy our fundamental role is to provide an environment that respect the human right and the freedom of speech in which people can freely express themselves this is what this ballot item is about this is not about what's in it allow the voters to have a say i urge the community and every single one of to please go back and watch a mayoral debate between the party underscended it's about free speech about democracy please listen to it and you will hear the amount of truth you will hear the level of leadership that the city needs in the next couple of years it was organized by the school the parents i think of the pto's amazing speech please listen to it my heart goes with one person who spoke here i think he's a she's a preschool teacher um and also there was a response i think we are opening the door for more controversy if we don't allow this to go in the ballot we had one opportunity to call for a ceasefire we did not do it this will continue to come back over and over and over again until burlington says enough that's what i just wanted to add this is nothing about against anti-semitism this is not about against jews but this is about democracy allow the people to finally have a say and please i urge you to listen to that debate between the party underscended it for mayor thank you thank you so much i'm not i'm not really sure how many times i have to say that please do not do that okay please do not do that um uh there are just a couple of counselors who haven't spoken in the first round um if they have if they don't wish to then we will go to the second round council bergman uh thank you for indulging me on a second round i there are points that i i feel that i need to to make let's start my timer uh one is that i'm struck by how criticism of israel is conflated with anti-semitism and this is clearly a long standing political tactic but i as a non-zionist jew do not believe that they are the same or that strong criticism of israel is anti-semitic in and of itself regardless of how this vote goes i hope that opponents and supporters of this petition do a much better job of rejecting this false equivalence and i hope that supporters continually make clear the reject their rejection your rejection our rejection of anti-semitism and opponents of the petition reject the conflation that only serves to tie all jews to wrongful acts of the israeli government i understand that the fear that voting on the petition question will increase anti-semitism and threaten jewish people in berlington and elsewhere you know my boys raised here and about 13 years ago my younger son was subjected to anti-semitic taunts on an athletic field with a co-work with a co-player that got into a mess it was really quite ugly 13 years ago this is not new i and other members of this council and the mayor i know have gotten regularly gotten emails from a local not neo-nazi i've gotten them for the last eight years i really believe though that quashing a vote on this question is not going to ant to lessen anti-semitism i dare say that netanyan who's continuing offensive in gaza and the rejection of a palestinian state will spark an awful lot of anti-semitic jewish feelings a lot of anti-jewish feelings especially especially if the identification of the israeli state with all jews is not challenged but let me be very very clear anti-semitism is vile threats and violence against jews are unacceptable and critics of israel and i am one need to be very clear about this reports of increased incidents of anti-semitism and islamophobia in our schools is very troubling and i believe it's essential that supporters of palestinian freedom are very clear that the work to end the occupation requires a rejection of anti-semitism and we really need to do this if we are to end the cycle of hate including teaching our children last point i want to make although it's a maybe a little bit long but i still got a couple minutes a new argument against putting this question on the ballot is that this is just a stalking horse for bts on its face it's just not true but that's really besides the point one of the most successful strategies of the defenders of israeli policies in the west bank in gaza is to delegitimize nonviolent forms of resistance and equate all resistance with violent extremism and this includes bds the delegitimization of bds and other forms of nonviolent resistance pushes people to violence as the only viable means of to resist oppression i'm gonna quote jonathan kutab is an international civil rights lawyer and a palestinian resident of east jerusalem and three days ago i received in his email on the need to reject the appeal of violence he is a pacifist working in the resistance as a palestinian and a member of the you know a resident of east jerusalem and he wrote the problem is that once the decision is made to use violence there are immediate consequences victory at any price becomes the goal not justice liberation reconciliation or peace the enemy must be dehumanized in order to justify their deaths and the destruction and suffering meted out to them in the face of such powerful appeals to violence those of us who believe in nonviolence must redouble our efforts to show that there are effective and worthwhile alternatives that must be considered our rejection of violence cannot be a negative or passive submission to the forces of oppression and evil in fact gondi himself said that if this was his all if his only choices were violence and submission to tyranny he would choose violence when the appeal and temptation to violence is most powerful when the suffering and oppression is greatest when the desire for vengeance is compelling that is when we need to most stand up and say as loudly as we can that violence is not the answer let's try to or must i've got the lessons more must stop occupation must cease the siege must be lifted the struggle for freedom equality and self-determination must continue yes but with different methods and without violence destruction or bloodshed this is an important message for us and i'm sorry for taking an extra minute on that thank you councillor bourbon uh councillor high tower did you want to push the floor back yes and i'll be brief um i just wanted to add because i didn't quite get to what i meant to say last time um which is um but this this language is brought to the community after the council could not find language and you know i was a little bit in between i think i could have supported um with amendments either of the language that was brought to the council but we ultimately were split and we couldn't support it um and i also just want to say um that i'm obviously supporting putting this on the ballot today but i just want to be really clear that i think that do the community forum is great and i don't want to say that i'm proposing that instead of um supporting this tonight um this council is getting a little bit of history of saying we can do things better and we don't and then we can't um either before or after some of the community some of the community initiatives so i'm not saying that we should do a community forum instead of doing this today i'm saying we should do that regardless of what happens tonight um because i just want to put this into the hands of experienced community facilitators and healers to guide this community through a conversation because i think this council is historically very terrible at working through these kinds of issues doesn't matter if they're international or if they're here at home um and then the last thing that i just want to say to um council improvements comments is that for any community member who's afraid if you're Jewish or Muslim Palestinian black queer um know that you are speaking to a group of counselors who have faced backlash personally and because of our identity so we empathize not just in theory but in practice with worried over our own safety homes community centers and that it's not okay no matter your identity um and that i i yeah that we love our community and every and i'll agree every part of it thank you thank you so much uh councilor hightower so um we're on second round is there anyone else who wishes to speak seeing none uh seeing no other counselors i just have one quick thing to say sure i think we all need to think about as a council what's going on and how we've handled issues um to council hightower's point we've not handled certain issues well at all which is what gets this large amount of community engagement right people say we waste time i don't think it's a waste of time to listen to people from the community talk and and tell us what they're thinking i think that's part of what we signed up for but we really have been very ignorant and insensitive about certain issues of equity in our community and if you really want to believe some of the things that you said here you have to figure out a way how you're going to act upon them how you're going to be more empathetic because the lack of empathy is really strong and and how will you you change that so that you can have these conversations with people so you can be invited in these conversations because people aren't gonna invite you in the conversations if they don't trust you trust is really everything and trust is something that a lot of people don't have in our council right now thank you thank you so much uh if there's no one else that wishes to speak uh then we will go to a vote before we do go to a vote um i'd like to caution everyone who's here who's gathered with us in con toys that again the city council is a governmental body and in such if you wish to express support or opposition after this vote i'm going to ask that you please do that outside this room please do not do that inside this room please do not do that inside this room we still have to continue with the meeting and it is impossible for us to do that unless we have a calm and deliberative environment to do that um we this is not the place for any of that activity so with that and trusting that you hear what i'm saying um we will go to a vote on that and um since we do have someone joining us by zoom we'll need to do that by role councilor barlow no councilor bergman yes councilor carpenter no councilor jang yes councilor dority no councilor grant yes councilor hightower yes yes councilor king no councilor mcgee yes councilor shannon no councilor travers no city council president paul no bye bye seven days so the motion fails by a vote of five to seven that brings us to the end of our agenda i would ask if there could be a motion a motion to adjourn so moved thank you councilor mcgee seconded by councilor king all of those although all those in favor all those in favor of the motion to adjourn please say aye aye any opposed we are adjourned please keep in mind our next meeting is next monday january 29th thank you