 So, welcome to the Dr. Gundry podcast. Leaving what's familiar and safe can feel daunting to anyone. But my guest today is proof that change can be a very, very good thing. In just a moment, I'll speak with the famous beauty mogul turned wellness guru, Bobby Brown. Bobby recently left her namesake brand, Bobby Brown Cosmetics, after a long time. Then she took her career in a whole new direction. Bobby became a certified health coach and created Just Bobby, a website that educates people on wellness, food, beauty, business, travel and more. She also launched the podcast, Long Story Short. With Bobby Brown as well as a line of beauty supplements. Today we're going to discuss the challenges and rewards of reinventing yourself and how to pursue your passion at any age. And I can tell you, and I hope Bobby's going to tell you, it is never too late. So we'll also discuss the connection between health and beauty and share some hot tips for looking your best. Bobby, thanks so much for joining us today. Oh, thanks for having me. Now, you started your career as a makeup artist and went on to found Bobby Brown Cosmetics. And I got to tell you, my wife, Penny is a huge fan of yours. So I'm sure she's going to watch you. She says, oh my gosh, you know, I'm such a fan. So thank you. What attracted you to the beauty industry in the first place? You know, I grew up in Chicago in the 70s. And ever since I was a young kid, I just wanted to be pretty. I wanted to feel attractive and I wanted to, you know, not look like I was wearing makeup. So, you know, what changed my life is when I saw the movie Love Story and thought Allie McGraw was the most beautiful woman I ever saw. And she wasn't wearing a ton of makeup, had very simple hair, and that's where my style was really born. Ah. And then, yeah. And then I went to college and studied theatrical makeup in college, not knowing what I was going to do. Yeah, wait a minute. There was a degree in theatrical makeup even back then in college? Good question, because you know what, there was not, but I was able to find a college that let me create my own major, Emerson College in Boston. And when I called my dad and told him, he said, what are you going to take, mascara 101? If they all heard it, I would have. But I got to design my own major and honestly, that's what taught me how to be an entrepreneur. I just made things up and that's what I'm still doing after all these years. Well, you know, that's interesting. They're very similar parallel. I went to Yale as an undergraduate and I was allowed to design my own major. And I wanted to major in human evolutionary biology and I had to defend a thesis. And it was, you know, the craziest thing in the world. So, well, good. Yeah. Well, I'd love you on my podcast because I want to hear how you turned your passion into a business because it's fascinating for people. All right, so we'll trade. So, you know, I mean, if brands were A-list celebrities, Bobby Brown Cosmetics would absolutely be one of them. So, tell me about your decision to leave a brand that you helped build from the ground up and then start something totally different. I mean, what were your signs that it was time to move on? Well, I was a makeup artist before. I even thought of making a lipstick. I made a lipstick. I turned it into 10 lipsticks. Started selling them out of my house, you know, putting in envelopes. My husband would mail them. And after a year, I met a big, big woman who worked at Bergdorf Goodman. She took the 10 lipsticks. And somehow in the next four years, you know, our business was sold to Estee Lauder. So, four years after I started the company, we sold it. I had two kids at the time. I now have a third. And it was just a super, super busy time. But the amazing thing was that I stayed as an employee for 22 years. I helped build that brand into a billion dollars. And anyone that has worked in any kind of corporations knows. I wasn't the boss at the end of it. I wasn't able to do what I thought, what I believed in. And I just got tired of fighting. And so I said, it's time to be the boss again and do something else. So I left without knowing what I was going to do. Yeah. At 60 years old. Yeah, I kind of left what I was great at at 50 without kind of knowing what I was going to do. But so, you know, nowadays we hear of an entrepreneur who, you know, builds a brand only for the purpose of selling it, making some money, and then, you know, walks away from that brand. But you sold it fairly early on. But you were that brand for 20 additional years. What made you stay rather than take the money and run? Well, honestly, it seemed to me that I still owned the brand. You know, at the beginning I, you know, I was part of everything until the day I left. From naming the products, to creating the products, to the advertising, to all the things I loved. And, you know, it was just an amazing experience being able to grow this baby into this big giant, you know, thing. And then it was just time for me not, you know, to just be done with it. You know, I'm so privileged to have experienced it and stayed for so long and saw it. But now I'm even more grateful that I have this opportunity in this new world of ours. And our world is completely different. The retail, everything is different. And I love being part of it. So, you know, what, looking back, what were the signs that it was time to move on, that you've kind of reached the pinnacle of what you could do? Well, it was actually my 84-year-old Aunt Alice that said to me, it's time, because every time I talk to you, you're even more aggravated and stressed than you were last time. And this was a year. And finally I said, Aunt Alice, you're right. And I did. And it was time to go. And I had no idea what my future was. I had no idea. And I'm not a woman who has a hobby. I don't play golf. I don't play tennis. I can't sit still and read a book even. I'm, you know, my mind is very busy. And I left and I can't tell you the past two and a half years have been the most interesting, exciting time in my entire life. I want to go back to Aunt Alice for a second, because, you know, I talk about in the longevity paradox that one of the things I think we've lost, particularly in western society, is this really deep connection to our elders. And up until, you know, a generation or maybe two generations ago, our elders, our family members were often very essential guiding lights. I know my maternal grandfather was incredibly important in putting me in my place all the time and guiding me. So, I mean, you obviously had a very close relationship with Aunt Alice. And I actually had an Aunt Alice. She lived to 103. So, you know, yeah, yeah. So what, what was it? How did Aunt Alice know you so well? Was she somebody you can fight it in? You know, she, Aunt Alice is one of these women. I always, whenever I introduce her, I say, this is my Aunt Alice. She's 86 now. She's never taken a medicine in her life. It's just unbelievable. She is like active. She's busy. She had a very long, happy marriage. And she just has the most common sense, sensible shoes, never colored her hair, cut it short, wears comfortable shoes. And she's a happy woman. You know, I color my hair and I wear high heels, but I still look up to Aunt Alice. Well, actually, I look down to Aunt Alice. She's a little shorter than I am. But yeah, but you got high heels. So that's not fair. I do. Yeah. Even without high heels, I'm a little bit taller. But honestly, like between Aunt Alice and my Papa Sam, my Papa Sam, who's not around anymore, was the one that actually taught me everything I needed to know about business, taking care of the customer. I just didn't know it at the time. I observed him and his Cadillac Agency. And I learned a lot. So is Bobby Brown Cosmetics the Cadillac of cosmetic companies? I mean, when I was there, maybe it was. So, you know, but I always cared about the customer. And I always, I care about people. So it was an easy transition. So, so Aunt Alice said, okay, you know, I've observed you. It's time to make this change. When you decided to make that change, did you have any idea of what you wanted to do in this next life? Or did you just say, you know, it's time for a change. And I'll figure it out as I go along. I had absolutely no idea. I knew I had my ninth book was about to be published. I knew I had to, you know, promote that book. And fortuitously, the book is called Beauty from the Inside Out. It is really a book about wellness and what you eat and how you take care of yourself really affects your beauty more than makeup. So that was my first project. My second project, my husband asked me to help him develop and design a hotel. So together we designed, decorated beautiful 32 room hotel in Moncler, New Jersey called the George creative project. I promoted the book. I was offered a an opportunity to do a Just Bobby shop in Lord and Taylor for a year, curating my favorite things. I opened a way I opened the website and then I had another opportunity to create a wellness line evolution 18. And so I in retrospect, I never could have imagined one of those things, let alone all of those things happening to me. So do you think things when you kind of tossed yourself out there, there's a feeling that, you know, we should, we should just, you know, open ourselves up and things are going to find us. Now that sounds kind of New Age touchy feely. But the way I'm hearing you, that's kind of how it happened for you. You just kind of put yourself out there and these things, you know, gravitated towards you. Well, that's not exactly true. It's not like I stood there and waited for things to happen. So the Lord and Taylor deal came because I called a friend of mine who happened to have been the president of Lord and Taylor and sex. And he said, why don't we do this? So if I didn't call him just to have a general, you know, lunch. And by the way, when you're busy working every single day for 22 years, you don't have time to do things, you just become literally on a treadmill of things you have to do. But then when you leave, you're like, oh, I'd love to go have lunch with him. Oh, I'd always wanted to have drinks with so and so. And I started doing that. And you just kind of, I'm an entrepreneur. I don't wait for things to happen, but I'm certainly open to things that do. Interesting. There was an old song that Glenn Campbell sang. It was written by Johnny Hartford, one of his songwriters. And the title was, I wouldn't be here if I hadn't been there. And what you just described, I think it describes that very well. You wouldn't have a line at Lord and Taylor if you hadn't had lunch with the president. And probably wouldn't have a lunch with him if you weren't Bobby Brown. Exactly. Okay. So for many people, including you and me, age does play a part in whether they decide to pursue something new. Did your age give you pause as to thinking about taking on new things? Or did you view it as a very positive aspect? Well, I find my experience as a very positive part of where I am now and why things have moved so quickly. Everything I've learned. I also don't feel my age, which is 62. I don't act my age. I'm doing burpees and boot camps with the girls in my office. I go slower than they do, but I still do it. So I do whatever I can to keep myself vibrant and young. I don't consider myself an old person. And I'm not even near to that time. Good. Does Aunt Alice consider herself an old person yet? I think she realizes her age and she's not doing burpees and boot camp, but she does walk and she walks very quickly. There's actually a lot of studies that you have to study the speed of people walking. And one of the keys to good long-term health is you have to keep your speed up as you get older. So it's good to hear that Aunt Alice is a fast walker. And I just read yesterday, there was a woman that ran, not a marathon, but a 5k or a 10k. Her first one ever, she was 103 years old. Oh yeah, I saw that about her. I'm like, okay, I got that. Yeah, that's exactly right. So yeah, does age, you mentioned this in a way, does age give you a benefit in taking on something new? It does if you are a person to see the positive side of things. If I could easily feel bad of how old I am, or I could use it as, okay, I'm at a different phase in my life now, but I am still, I have a hunger for learning. There's so many new ways to do things now. And I've become close and friends with a lot of the founders of new companies that are at, they're in their 30s, maybe, you know, 40s. And I have friends that are a decade older than me who are super successful entrepreneurs. And I just find that you give and you take and you learn and you grow. And if you're positive and upbeat and happy, I think people are happy to share the information and share what's going on. So is there any time when it's a, it's finally too late to try something new or you haven't, you haven't found it yet? I certainly haven't found it yet. No, no, I haven't found it yet. The hardest thing for me honestly being a beauty expert is I do a lot of things on TV and I do a lot of tutorials teaching makeup. And with HDTV, I do not like the way my hands look on HD. It's just awful. But, you know, my neck not as good as I would like, but you know what? I can't look at all those things. So the way you went about reinventing yourself is fascinating to me because, you know, I went about reinventing myself. But suppose somebody doesn't have a parachute when they jump or a trampoline to land on when they jump. Is that something that should give persons pause or you still gotta make that leap? And how do you do it safely without breaking your neck? Well, everyone is different. And you know what? I know that I was in a very lucky situation because I did not have to worry about money at that point. And I didn't really have to worry about anything except what's going to fuel my passion and my creativity. Sometimes when people leave, they still need the cash, they need the money. So, you know, perhaps it's a different field, a different job, perhaps they have enough money, you know, you have to pay attention to your circumstances. And not everyone is meant to be an entrepreneur because it's not easy. But, you know, every entrepreneur out there needs someone to help them. You know, I always go back and mention the movie with Robert De Niro, The Intern. I would love Robert De Niro to come into my office right now and sit with everyone and help, you know, with the books or whatever he's good at. So I, you know, Robert, if you're out there, give me a call. I talk about in the longevity paradox that I think one of the biggest mistakes that anybody can make is retiring. And I see it from primarily a medical perspective. I think retiring is really a bad idea in so many ways. Number one, your mind kind of stops working. And number two, the social network that we establish in our jobs, whether we're a man or a woman, that to me disappears for most of my patients. And I just see, unfortunately, this fairly rapid spiral. And I was down giving a lecture in Austin, Texas last month, and I was staying at a double tree and a gentleman, he was in his late 70s. And he said, where are you from? And I said, Southern California. And he says, oh, you know, I lived in Claremont for most of my life. And I retired when I was 68. And I've run retired four times now. And he says, you know, he says, I'm 79 now, I am never retiring. Those are the biggest mistakes anybody could make. And he had a great social network talking to people, you know, coming and going in the hotel. It's really important. My father, who's 84 years old, who's, you know, a recent widow, or widower, and he was an attorney his whole life. And he literally at 70 years old, started writing children's books. And now he just travels the country, goes into schools and reads. And he's so passionate and so happy. He's written a film. And he's found what he loves. And that's the important thing. Fantastic. So tell me about your new wellness platform. What inspired you to go in this direction? Well, I have been a health nut, pretty much my whole life. Growing up in Chicago in the suburbs, I was not a health nut, I was a diet nut. Name a diet, Scarsdale diet, honey alone vinegar, did everything with my mom. I was either on or off a diet. And then I realized when I moved to New York, and I was working in the fashion industry, no amount of starvation was going to have me look like a supermodel. And on and off a diet is dumb. So I started to realize I feel better when I don't eat bread. I feel better when I don't eat cookies and sugar. So I started slowly transitioning. And then when I had my own company, I started teaching all the women, not just about where to put the eyeliner or where to put the blush. But if you look good, if your skin looks good, then your makeup is going to look so much better. It's going to be easier. So I've always kind of given back in that field. And then my ninth book is Beauty from the Inside Out, which is a book about what you put in your body, affects your skin way more than any cream you're going to buy out there. Creams are not going to make you look healthy. And when I left Bobby Brown Cosmetics, one of the first things I did is sign up to go to school to get my degree as a health coach from Institute of Integrative Nutrition. I've been hooked on it ever since. That's fantastic. Well, as you know, your intestines are actually your skin turned inside out. And everything that happens on the wall of your gut is actually reflected on your skin. And you're right. So Beauty comes from within. And it's what you put in your system that actually will be reflected out on your skin. And for someone like me who, yes, I have very good skin, I've had digestive issues my whole life. I have never been able to figure out exactly what to do. And it's another reason why I'm so excited to be part of the wellness industry, because I'm always searching for ways to feel better. So is that why you decided to have a line of supplements? Was that just a natural progression of what you'd learned? It was definitely, definitely. I'm not a doctor. I'm not a scientist. I'm a beauty expert. And now I'm a health coach and a health fanatic. So my line is not things that are going to change your health. They're going to help your lifestyle so you will look and feel better. So there is a great probiotic. It melts on your skin like a pixie stick on your tongue. I'm sorry, like a pixie stick. I don't know. I'll try it on the skin. So there's very simple things like that. There's a product called de bloat, which is any woman in the world would say, what is that? And it just helps. It's all natural herbs that help you get rid of some of the water. So you don't feel it because we all suffer from certain things sometimes? Yeah. Well, you know, I for years and years did not make a supplement line. I would tell people to go to Costco or Trader Joe's or Amazon because I as a scientist and a researcher wanted to find out what would happen to people's blood work or how they felt when they were taking a particular supplement. And it got to the point where so many people said, well, you know, I'm running around to 12 stores and picking the stuff up. And, you know, I've got four suitcases full of supplements lining my shelves. Can't you come up with something that, you know, you've done this for 20 years now, you know what works, you know what doesn't. And that's actually what finally prompted me to come out with my own brand of supplements. And that drink is so good. I drink that at home. It tastes so good. Oh, thank you for that shameless plug. I appreciate it. Oh, no, but if you don't, but you could buy things and if they don't taste good, you're never, you're not going to use them. If they taste good, you're going to want to drink up. Yeah, no, you're right. You're right. That's the amount of effort and actually most of our powders to get the taste right is a team sport. And I can't tell you the number of tastings we go through to get it right. All right. So what are some of the biggest pitfalls that prevent people from looking their best? Well, I think people that don't drink enough water that are not hydrated, their skin's not going to look great. They're not going to feel great. They're not going to have the energy to exercise. And that's the second one. If you don't, if you exercise, you're going to look better. It really does make the biggest difference. And also the next thing is what your skin looks like and eating healthy food is number one, but also keeping a hydrated skin. Now, it's not a cream that you go buy that's going to change your skin. I don't care if you use olive oil. I don't care if you use coconut oil. I don't care whatever cream you use. And I happen to like my skincare clean these days, my makeup and my skincare that I'm using are all clean. I'm truthfully not using anything from the brand since I left the company. I'm doing many more things that are clean and that's, I think the biggest trend out there right now and it's a good one. Yeah, I think that's amazing. Here you are. You built this amazing brand. You've kind of left this brand. You don't even use your brand. And that's the same with me. I built an amazing surgical career. It was very famous for the things I invented. And now they call me no more Mr. Knife guy. And I see so many parallels between our two careers. It's, yeah, I don't operate on people. Unfortunately, I teach them how to avoid me. Which is unbelievable. What a platform that is. I wish more doctors out there would realize, give someone a $50 gift certificate to go buy some vegetables at the store instead of some pills. No, you're right. I actually write prescriptions for my patients to go get a dog. And so many of them actually come back later with that prescription framed and say that was the best prescription any doctor has ever given me. Right, because then you've got to walk the dog and you're getting exercise. That's exactly right. And the dog, like I write about in the longevity paradox, brings a whole new microbiome to you that the dog has picked up walking in the dirt and the mud and sniffing things. And that dog licks your face and it actually gives you more diversity in your microbiome. So who knew? Wow. Okay, so is that one of your big things is the microbiome and helping people get you are? Yeah, you are only as young as your microbiome. And the microbiome will keep people young. If you look at 105-year-old people around the world, they all actually have the same microbiome. And that microbiome is as diverse as many species as a healthy 30-year-old person. And that's actually the microbiome we're the home for the microbiome. I'd say we're just a condominium for bugs. And that microbiome, if you give them the things they need to survive and flourish, they'll keep their home in tip-top condition. So you're right. I think beauty from within is actually more and more beauty feeding the microbiome. And that's my big push now. Well, you need to give us a cheat sheet because all the things you're not supposed to eat because it's got the wrong lectins. I needed to make it simple. I'm going to buy your new book and I'm going to literally take a yellow pen and make my own cheat sheet. All right. And then I'll come on your podcast and I'll give you the super cheat sheet. How's that? Good. I'll take it. Bobby, you and I both, I think, agree that clean products and clean beauty is incredibly important because, you know, I talk about the seven deadly disruptors. So can you define what do you mean by clean beauty products? Well, clean beauty products are really products that don't have, you know, these additives and chemicals. And there are so many on the don't use list. There is a great chain of beauty stores called Credo that has a list on their website that'll tell you exactly the ones, the ingredients that you should not be putting on your face. So I live by that. All my cleaning supplies in my house, my shampoos, my moisturizers, they're all clean. And I cannot tell you the difference. My house smells better. And I just, it just feels so much better. Yeah, the, you know, these, most of these products have such, you know, incredible estrogen disruptors that it's actually really scary. And, you know, recently there was a study showing that a lot of the ingredients in sunscreens, which are problematic, are absorbed through our skin and can be detected in our blood. And that is really scary. So yeah, I agree. People have got to really concentrate on this because our skin is an absorptive surface. And boy, the stuff we're putting on it is scary. So good for you. Yeah. And we have to keep making sure that companies know this and, you know, hopefully that everyone will change. Yeah. And I think that, you know, the informed consumer, like you and I are, are trying our darnedest, will demand changes as long as they know why they need to demand this. And it's not going to happen from the top up. It's all got to come from below. Definitely. All right. You and I have both done this, but give our listeners and viewers, are there any tips to know when it's time to move on, to change? Well, the only tip I have is when you're not happy, if it's not working. I mean, that's really it. If you're just not happy, if you don't come to work and excited to be at work, or what you're doing is just, you feel stuck. Yeah. Then it's time to maybe figure out what's going to make a change. And some people do something that we call the side hustle until they're ready to make the change. And it could be, you know, who knows, you might, you know, be someone who knits. You decide you want to have a website that sells patterns and knitting things. You want to make granola. You want whatever it is. You know what? You've got to just give yourself the, you know, the opportunity to figure out what makes you happy. That's really it. What's what you're passionate about? Yeah, I think that's great advice. You know, my wife Penny was in real estate for a great part of her life. And oh gosh, almost 20 years ago, we were in New York City. And she bought a handbag, a round handbag made out of Raffia. And everywhere she went, people would stop her on the street and she's, they'd say, wow, what a great handbag. And she came to me and she says, you know, I think there's a business here. And she said, I want to go back to New York City and find the guy. And it's a long story. His name was Doc Kim. We actually signed a contract with him in a McDonald's on Avenue of the Americas and upstairs. I can still remember it. And she opened this little bitty store just selling that handbag. And she's now not only had a phenomenal career in retail, but our youngest daughter now manages. And she's just expanded into home goods. So it was just this one crazy idea that says, and you know, she didn't know anything about this. You know, she sold houses. And my favorite thing is why not? What's the worst that happens? Okay, it doesn't work. I don't believe in failure. I believe that when something doesn't work out, it's a message that says, do something else. Yeah, you're absolutely right. Even my biggest failures were huge successes and the things they taught me. Right, exactly. All right. So what's next for you? Got any more unexpected career plans in your future? Well, I am sure. I am sure I don't know what they are yet. You know, there's a couple things on, you know, that are happening. I've been someone just asked me to write another book, which I might write a makeup, another how to book. I don't know. And you know, because I think makeup has changed so much since I started being a makeup artist. And I'm a teacher. So we'll see. I'm not sure. Anything you haven't tried yet that you want to try? That is a good question. I kind of do everything I feel like. You know, I tried the podcast. I had no idea. You know, I'm not a journalist. I don't know a thing about it. But I sit in a chair and I have a conversation as you do that. I did that. So right now I'm doing everything I love doing. Okay. All right. Everybody who comes in my podcast, I like to ask them a longevity question. So in your opinion, what's the one thing listeners can do today to increase their health span and the quality of life from your perspective? Well, absolutely. I would say if you've never done yoga, start doing yoga. It keeps your body, you know, agile and it feels really good. And you know what? Eat plants. You're going to tell us which ones not to eat, but eat plants and drink water. That's the, you know, more plants, less bad food. Yeah, I agree. Eat plants, but only the ones that want to be eaten. How's that? Right. Exactly. All right. All right, Bobby, it's been a pleasure to have you on the show today. Thank you for being on the podcast. Can you tell our listeners and viewers where they can find more information about you and your work now? Sure. You could find me on Instagram at JustBobbyBrown. You can go to The George, which is our hotel. You can go to Evolution18 about the products. And we also have Evolution18.com and JustBobby.com, my editorial site. Wow. Okay. So they can find you anywhere. Yeah, just Google it. All right. So thanks again and hope to see you on your podcast. I hope so, too. Have a great week. Thanks a lot. Okay, it's time for my favorite part of the podcast. It's the audience question time, and this is a good one. Love's Fitness on Instagram asks, what do you think of the Beyond Burger? Is it plant paradox-approved? Well, for those of you who don't know, there are actually right now two competing plant-based burgers, which are both getting a lot of attention. One is Beyond Burger, and the other one is the Impossible Burger. Now, both of these have different plant-based proteins. I'll give you an example. The Beyond Burger contains pea protein isolate, canola oil, refined coconut oil, rather than virgin coconut oil, potato starch, natural flavor, and if you've ever heard me talk, natural flavor is a code word for don't eat this, yeast extract and beet juice extract. Now, the problem with this is pea protein has an amazing amount of lectins, and so it would be the last thing that I would want anybody to eat. But here's the scariest part about the Impossible Burger and Beyond Burger. They've both now been tested by independent agencies, and they've both been found to contain very large quantities of glyphosate, the active ingredient in Roundup. The soybean base of the Impossible Burger has it. There's genetically modified heme protein in the Impossible Burger. So both of these burgers are so far down the list that to eat it and be healthy would be quite possibly impossible. And you heard it from me, Dr. Gundry. So it is beyond belief that anybody would eat this thinking they're being healthy, and it is impossible to eat these and be healthy with that much glyphosate in them. Stay away. Before you go, I just wanted to remind you that you can find the show on iTunes, Google Play, Stitcher, or wherever you get your podcasts because I'm Dr. Gundry, and I'm always looking out for you.