 All right, welcome back. Yes, Christopher, you can please ask a question or share thoughts. Yes, thank you, Pastor. So actually I have two points. The first one is with the difference to point in the nodes with regards to, you know, from the initial 12 that is formed, when some of them are, you know, moved to become a cell of group of life group leaders. Is there an expectation that they need to attend or lead the new group that they are forming? And they should also attend the group that, you know, that initially they started. So there was a point there, you know, that applies to life groups, so it's really for cell groups. We just want to clarification on that. And the second point is, you know, with, you know, with churches, you know, sort of expanding and growing, as well as, you know, when churches are formed in the initial stages and, you know, cell groups and life groups are formed. Sometimes there's this sort of expectation that the cell groups form a much closer relationship with that particular, you know, smaller group. And sometimes what happens is that, you know, that the cell group leader is sort of like a representative of, you know, for that church. And a particular case in point, this is the sort of, you know, someone who specifically mentioned this is that the cell group leader actually was, you know, was, you know, asked by, you know, one of the people in the group, that, you know, the person in the group wanted to actually go and approach the pastor of the church. And the cell group leader, you know, specifically mentioned that they need to come through the cell group, or she should, the cell group leader itself, and go die to the pastor. So I just want to understand, you know, or maybe you can probably comment on that, on that and the earlier point here. Sure. Thank you, Christopher. Both very valid questions and valid points. Now, for the first one, to become a life group leader at APC, this is what we follow. They should have been part of our church for one year at least. Now, when I say part of the church, it's not like they come Sunday and attend and go, right? They should be at least volunteering in any area. They should be part of our weekend schools. And as pastors, we get to see, right, we get to see people in the church, we see their attitudes, we see how they are. And so one of the criteria is they should be part of the church for one year. Another criteria is that they should have attended a life group for at least six months. And why do we do this? Because, see, people are coming probably from different churches, from different cities. They're coming into a bank law. Now, they may have a certain idea about a cell group, right? They may have been cell group leaders for 10 years, right? Or 15 years also, right? And now immediately they want to be a cell group leader in APC. But the reason we give them like six months and tell them to be part of this life group is so that they see how a cell group is, right? Now, they may have been a cell group leader for 10 years, they know everything. That's all right. But APC, we function this way, right? So we encourage firstly, they should have been part of the church for one year, involved in church activities, being part of church activities, probably even volunteering in any area. Secondly, at least six months, they must be a part of a life group. So they get to see how the life group is, life group leaders, you know, how their life is, how a life group, how is the structure of a life group, what do we do in a life group, and why do we do it in a life group? So they gather, you know, a rough idea as to what it is. And once we feel, you know, what we also do is we tell the life group leader, see, this couple is going to come to your life group. They've been, for example, right, they've been believers for 30 years. Now, they want to start a family life group. But they're new to APC, they've been here for past one year. So we tell the life group leader, right? And this work with them, just involve them, see how they are, right, see if they're asking questions, whether they're interacting, whether they're open to, you know, talking to people, how is their character. So we give them this time, and then we keep checking with the life group leader. So did they attend the life group, you know, because sometimes, you know, many people, they are so used to leadership that they cannot sit, you know, they have to talk, they have to be like, in this place where I should make some, you know, I should talk, I should be able to make some decisions. So how's their attitude? So Christopher, to answer that question, one year being part of APC, volunteering two, six months being part of a life group, and once the life group leader says, yes, they can start, then we take them through the higher cell group, life group leaders training module, which we have, it's about an hour of training. And then for the first six months, we just work with them. Basically, what I do is I call them, talk to them, ask them, how is the life group, how did it go? What are any new people who came? What are the, how are they discussing questions? So there's this regular, so the life group leader also knows that, hey, you know, there's somebody who's, you know, checking up, and there's somebody who I'm accountable to also, right? So that's it. That's one. The second question was, sorry, can you repeat the second question, Christopher? The second question was really about, you know, the life group or the cell group leader, you know, representing the church or, you know, the pastor, the leadership team. And again, this could be, this could be just, you know, in her case, but I was informed that, you know, that a cell group or life group, you know, leader was sort of kind of dissuaded the member of that life group to go directly to the pastor and said that, you know, you come through me, you know, because I, in a sense, you know, I'm sort of like, you know, representing, don't go right to the pastor, you know, there could be reasons, you know, he's busy, he's, you know, why, you know, why I necessarily want to go through me. And that's why I just wanted to get that, you know, yes. Yeah. Thank you, Chris. So one of the things that we teach in life groups is, for example, I have a problem. It's always good that I first go to the life group leader. Right. I can go to the life group leader and share but if I feel that I want somebody who's a little bit mature or more mature or somebody who can really give me some good, you know, direction on what I have to do next. And if I feel that that I want to talk to some, you know, somebody from the pastoral team, there's nothing wrong with that. So what we tell our life group leaders is and our life group members is, if you feel that you want to talk to somebody first go to your life group leader. If you feel that your life group, you know, you want somebody else, you can always go to your pastor, and we tell the life group leader also, don't force anything upon our church members. Right. Because many a times they want to speak to the senior pastor, they want to speak to the pastoral team. Right. Now if I say no, you have to go through me, it becomes legalistic. So this person will feel, Hey, I have to tell this person about my problem. Right. And we don't want that to happen. Right. So we give them the freedom. We give the life group members the freedom and we also tell the life group leaders that you know, if people don't come to you and share if they want to go to the pastors directly, don't get offended. They don't feel that you're not anointed. That's why they're not coming. It's not about that. Just that, you know, they prefer going to a pastor, a pastor. Right. So it's all right. There's nothing to feel offended. We tell our leaders, right. So it's all right. We never forced them. Right. You have to come through us and only then go to the pastor. No. For example, if there's somebody in the church, you know, a young man, he's part of my life example, right. I'm a youth. I'm a life group leader, youth leader. And this guy comes up to me and says, you know, I'm suicidal. Now I'm still a youth. I'm probably 24, 25 years. I'm going to say, Hey, why you want to think about all this. You know, God has given us life and life in abundance. I can quote a lot of scriptures and do all that. But I don't know the, you know, the real, the problem is really deep. It's a big problem. But as a life group leader, I might just say, Hey, God is with you. You know, it's it's good. It's good advice. God is with you. God, you know, read God's word. All those thoughts will go away. But this guy is going through the suicide problems probably from past five years. Right. So what, what it is, I know that this person needs counseling and he needs Christian counseling from a professional. So, sorry. So sometimes what we also do in APC is if people are like this situation comes, we don't want to send them to the pastor. We say, go to the, we connect them to the Christian counseling. We have Christmas counseling. So we connect them there. Right. Because as pastors, there's only so much that we can do. But we know that this person needs ongoing counseling, professional counseling. So there's nothing wrong with that. Right. So, but forcing our church members saying you have to go through me. That's wrong. That's something that we don't advise our church folks to do. Thank you. I just want to confirm on that on that first point. You are the person who has started this new life group as a leader. They will just attend their meeting. They don't need to attend the earlier meeting. Correct. Yeah, they should attend the live group. If they want to start one, they should attend one for at least six months. No, no, I understand that. But I'm saying after the six months is over and they have, you know, they're doing a good job and they don't need to attend the earlier one. They can just start there. They can just do there. Yes, they can just start their own live group. Right. And so once they're ready, we take them to the training and immediately they can start the live group. Right. Thank you. Yes. So Kennedy has a question. Can a cell group leader lead to a church plant? If yes, how and what requirement will you consider? Okay, that's a good question. Now, I know that especially in different churches, we have, you know, cell groups are a way of planting churches also. But we must understand that church plant and cell groups are different. Right. Now, it can be done. But why we don't do that is because we want cell groups to remain as a cell group to minister to the people within the church. So it's not that we want to start new churches. Right. So, so that's something that we don't do at APC. I'm sure there are other churches that, so in APC, what we have normally done when we started our, you know, branches, branch churches, not Southeast West is we usually meet at somebody's house. Now, we'll not call it a life group, but what we used to do is we used to meet probably on a Wednesday or a Thursday in a person's house. And, you know, we would, you know, so for example, there's no church in East of Bangalore. Right. So we would go there. I'm just sharing how we started APC East. So there were a few folks at our main location. We told them, hey, can we go to this part of the city where there's a lot of it and apartment complexes coming out. We need to start a church there. Right. Life groups were still happening everywhere, but we need to start a church there. So there were about five, six of them, a few couples and a few youth from this main church. We, they went to this part of the city that is East and started having press at every weekly press. So they would pray Lord, you know, open doors for us. We want to start a church here, lead us, bring, lead us to the right place, help us to know when to start. That we, maybe we may impact this part of the city. So for about six months, they did that every week. Then after six months, we thought, okay, let's start. We pray fully. Everything is done prayerfully. Right. So we pray fully. We pray. We said, okay, God, let's start. And I'm sure God will lead us. Right. Now the intention of going and starting that, you know, that Bible study and worship and prayer was to start a church. Right. We didn't go there saying we'll start a life group and that life group will become a church. No, the intention itself was to start a church. So eventually 2000, I think it's 2012 September. We started a PC East, which is one of our locations. Right. We were just a handful of people. We were probably 10 people and those 10 were from the main church who are attending here. But over time, families started coming, youth started coming, people started joining. Right. And so that became one of our church locations. And out of that, we started many more life groups. So the reason we don't want this whole thing of life group cell groups becoming a church is then it becomes a competition. Right. Hey, how come he gets to start a church? We don't get to start a church. How come you allowed him? That means he's most spiritually mature and I'm not, you know, it all becomes a competition. So we avoid it. Kennedy, I hope that answers your question. Okay. All right. So let's get into our notes. Present the notes. Okay. So the cell group meeting, this is what we follow at APC. Right. And then these are things that you can tweak. You can change it according to your convenience. So we have a time limit set of 90 minutes to maximum of 120 minutes. And then we meet once a week or once in two weeks. So most of our life groups meet once in two weeks. Right. And there are some life groups that meet weekly, but they are hybrid life groups, meaning they meet one week online the next week in person. Right. So it can be flexible as long as everyone in the group has been informed. Right. So let's look at a few general guidelines. Now this is very important. Right. Without guidelines, everything will go haywire. Right. So just a few general guidelines and this is basically a portion of what we teach for life group leaders training module. Right. So general guidelines, all members are encouraged to share and we ask that everyone speak openly and honestly. Right. It's not just another like a church meeting. Right. Where the one person comes in the life group leader, keep sharing and we keep listening. No. All members in the group are encouraged to share. Speak openly. Speak honestly. So for example, you know, we went through those sermon series on faith and science and the mind. All of them are open to start sharing. They may say, Hey, I didn't understand this. And nobody's going to point fingers and laugh and say, How can you not understand? No. Be open. Be honest. Because because it's a small group and it's your place to talk and to open up. Right. Very important. Each person should feel safe about opening up. But please remember it is very important that we stress confidence and confidentiality. Right. This is something that we strive for in PC. Right. Now people will share a lot of things. Right. There are different kinds of people. Right. We must remember there are people who don't like to share too much. They share a little bit. There are people who don't share anything at all. There are some who share everything. They're very fast. They, you know, they, they just open up. They may be just second or third time in a life group, but they just open up. Right. Now it's very important as life group leaders. There is a life group to keep things confidential. So for example, there's, it's a family life group and this wife comes and says, You know what? My husband is, you know, drinking. And it's just an example, right? Husband is drinking. He's a very good husband, but he comes home. He drinks and, you know, it makes us very sad. He sometimes uses abusive language. And I just want you to pray for him that God will change his heart. Now, the last thing we must do is talk about this to other people. This is a serious matter. Right. Because we, we inform our life group members and leaders do not talk about anything confidential. Right. Because the person is confided in the group. Right. So never talk about it outside or when you look at them at church, don't look at them as, Oh, yeah, I know this man's husband, this woman's husband is a drunkard. He drinks. So that's why he's not come to church. It's very easy for us to come up with all kinds of thoughts. Right. We begin to judge people. So we should never do that. Stay confident. Keep it to yourself. Keep it within the group. Right. Where you say, okay, group does the better way to look at this is, okay, sister, don't worry, they're going to pray for you as a group will stand with you. And we believe that by the end of this year, God is going to restore you, restore your family, restore your husband as well. And we, we will keep it. You can also tell the group, let's keep it confidential among ourselves. And we will pray. Yeah. Right. And that's a, that's one thing I'm really happy to say that an APC, we've always all the leaders that we have, all our life group members, we've always, you know, kept that confidential, kept things confidential. So that's good. We will reach out to our family, neighbors and friends with goals of bringing them to Christ again, evangelism. We will keep in mind the interaction in line with what Christ is doing in and refrain from storytelling that is irrelevant to the subjects we are discussing. Now, this is very important. So for example, life group is starting and you finished two songs. You had, you know, probably an icebreaker and then now you as a life group leader, you say, okay, let's all sit. We're going to discuss about Sunday sermon. Sunday sermon was about purpose, God's purpose for our life. So everyone start talking. Suddenly this one person gets the chance and they may say, I wanted to talk about what God spoke to me last month. In the book of Exodus, Moses went to the burning bush and he got the tank. Now, what is the first thing you must do? First thing as a life group leader is to stop that person at its right right now. Is he talking something good? Yes. Is it biblical? Yes. Can we get blessed? Yes. But is it in line with the topic? No. Right. So you stop it there. Right. It may not. It's not storytelling. It is from the Bible, but it's not in line with the topic. As in all of them are talking about God's purpose for their life. Suddenly somebody is talking about Moses in the burning bush. It doesn't make sense. Right. So make sure that yours is another important thing that a life group leader should do is to stir the conversation in line to facilitate the discussion. Now, remember there will be times you may say, brother, can we go back to the main discussion? This was the topic. Now that person one can get offended and say, I'm never going to come back to this life group. Two, he may say, oh, I apologize. Let's go back and this or three, he may say, get offended, but he continues to come to the life group. Now remember that you and I cannot control other people's emotions. We are doing what is right for the group. Right. So it's all right. As a life group leader or KSL leader, you have to come to a place where you make decisions which is beneficial for the group. And you can always meet with the person later on and say, you know, I know I stopped you at your track. The reason is we were discussing this. So one of the things we tell our life group leaders is even before the life group start, when you start off the life group, a new life group, we go through the guidelines of the life group with everyone so that they're aware. Okay. If I'm getting a chance to ask questions or discuss, I cannot talk about anything else apart from this. So I'm already aware. Right. So that's one thing we always tell our life group leaders. Okay. We will not murmur, gossip, condemn, be judgmental, criticize. No, we'll not do that. Okay. So this is one area that can bring most growth and strength to our group. So we ask each cell member to include the cell members and the ministry of our group in their prayer life. So we keep praying for each other, ministering to each other. And of course, during the life group also you can have extended time prayer, maybe 20 minutes or half an hour. So some of the life groups that meet. I think I mentioned this, they meet, they have prayer walks, prayer drives. They meet additionally online to spend time in prayer. So prayer is really something that can strengthen the life group. And the life group leader must also be, take hold of this. He must understand that, hey, as a life group leader, my prayer life, I must be able to pray for my life group members now and it'll be beneficial for the group itself. Last one, we will always keep the vision of the church for most in mind to be salt and light to the city of Bangalore, voice the nation and the nation. So here's where is another important aspect. So as the question came, can we, can care cells become plant churches? And that's why we don't want to do that, right? So one of the thing is we keep telling our church members, hey, we are doing this because we are fulfilling the vision of the church. The vision is to be salt and light to the city of Bangalore, voice the nation and to the nations. So we keep reiterating that. So nobody in their mind is thinking, oh, I'll start my own church. It could be an APC church itself, but it's not led from God. So we don't want to do anything that way, right? So we keep the vision of the church, hey, whether there are 10 people, 12 people, vision is to be salt and light. Bring flavor, bring light, whether it's darkness, bring fellowship, community within the church. Right? Look at this sample schedule. Now you can change this. Of course, you can do it. However, you'd like 10 minutes arrival, refreshments, then 10 minutes of praise and worship, ice breaker for 10 minutes, five minute vision statement. Look at this. 40 minutes word study with open discussions. This is the key. This is the most important part. And then there's 15 minutes for prayer and ministry. Now this is just a sample schedule, right? Some of them, they arrive, they begin with praise and worship. And after praise and worship, some of them have an ice breaker. Some of them don't have an ice breaker. They just go into the vision and spend more time in the word study and discussions. And then have prayer and ministry. So you can make changes and see what works for you best. Right? So we'll stop here because the upward, inward, outward, forward model is a very powerful model. This is written by Jim Eagley. Written by Jim Eagley is a powerful book. So we'll take it up from next week. I don't want that break. Yes, Mangi has raised his hand. Go ahead, Mangi. Thank you, Partha. I just have one or two questions based on the time. Why is there specific time set for the meeting? And does life group leaders have freedom to change that, to make their own time or to change the time they meet and where they meet? Secondly, if the church controls everything that the last group do, is that not legalistic? Because sometimes in a group, you have people struggling with violence. And then that is relevant to that group at that moment. Can they have freedom to discuss about that? So instead of discussing the topic, can they focus on how to deal with violence for three weeks or two weeks and not speak about the topic that the church is talking about? Thank you, Partha. Yes, very valid questions. Thank you, Mangi. Okay, the first question is the life group leader has the freedom to choose whatever timing. So for example, if I have a family group, I know that people are working Monday to Friday. So sometimes people get home by 7 or 8 p.m. And it's very difficult for them to get ready and some of our life groups even, you know, they usually prefer to start 7, 6, 37. So many of our life groups are on weekends. They happen on Saturday and Sunday. Now they have a choice. They can have it since Sunday is a holiday. They can have it at 10 a.m. They can have it at 3 p.m. They can have it at 6 p.m. It doesn't matter. And secondly, in terms of the place, so for example, there's a youth life group. They meet at a certain location in Bangalore. The life group leader has the freedom to also, you know, change the place. They can, for example, they're meeting at a certain place. They can, and the life group leader can say, hey, this week, can we meet at this coffee day, which is at the center of the city? That's all we'll meet there. We'll have coffee. We'll have life group inside coffee days, spend a few moments in God's word, discuss everything, and then we'll return back home. So they have the freedom to do that, right? Just that everyone in the group must be informed, right? So they have the freedom to choose the timing. They have the freedom to choose the place as well. It's just that you can't have it every Sunday in a coffee day. You can if you'd like to, but it gives you more freedom in a close setting, avoids disturbance and sound and all of that. So in fact, APC, we did have a couple of youth life groups that met at coffee days. And so we had this whole, I would say, you know, deal with coffee day where we would come and we would have one coffee and a sandwich for everyone. So coffee day will book the entire place, like 10, 12 chairs. So once we all come, one coffee and a sandwich, and we could sit there for more than two hours or the youth group used to do that. So yes, Mangi, to answer that, they can choose their own time, own place. But the point is it should still be effective. And two, to answer your question regarding whether APC controlling our life group leaders. Now, there are certain guidelines that are very important. Remember that when we do something, there are always reasons and when we do it, we want to see what is the most effective way. Now, the reason we encourage and we want all our church, all our life group members to only do the Sunday sermon is because initially we had life groups and people would, you know, discuss any topic. Somewhere early 2012, 20, yeah, I think it was 29, 2010, around that time. We had a lot of problems because there were people who were coming and, you know, many people are reading up, they're going online, listening to sermons. And what's happening is there were wrong teachings that were happening in the church. So some of them that I can think of was, I think there was one where, you know, this whole thing of David and Jonathan, and there's another one where, you know, about the gifts of the spirit, right? Only some people can flow in it, others cannot flow in it. Right? So we began to realize, hey, like these are good leaders, right? By heart they're very good. But we had to take into consideration all the members who are part of the life groups. Imagine what is going in, right? Some of the life groups may be wonderful, you know, good teaching, right? But some are, you know, it's just a misunderstanding, wrong interpretation of the word. And then we found out that a lot of them were misled, misled in the sense the word was not interpreted the right way. And, you know, these questions started coming to us. And we realized that, hey, especially in terms of God's word, we must be right. We must teach the true right word of God. So that is the reason why we came up with, every Sunday, discuss what is on, you know, the Sunday sermon topic. And that way we also know that everyone in the church are on the same flow. There's no kind of wrong teaching that's happening. It's not that we don't trust our life group leaders, right? We trust them. But with regards to our teaching, we want to ensure that our teaching is right, right? So that's why we've set certain standards that way, right? So there will be times when, you know, so for example, during the Christmas season, right? We always give freedom to our leaders, right? We tell them, you know, you can go for outreaches. You can go to children's homes, destitute homes as a group. You know, some of them go to orphanages. And they do all of that, right? We don't control them. We don't say, don't go. You have to sit. You have to, you know, we let them go. It's just that certain things, it's very important, right? Because that is seed, the seed of God's word. And we want to make sure that the word is right. The teaching is right. Now, what's the point of having fellowship and the community and all of that when the word is not right, meaning we're teaching something wrong? So that's why we focus in this area. We're kind of a little bit strict, right? Because we are speaking into other people's lives. And so we make sure that, you know, what is being taught is if we are aware of it. So, yes, Mikey. All right. Any other questions? Christopher, you have a question? Oh, yes. I just had two questions. So one is to give us a few examples of icebreakers that you would sort of, you know, that you think has worked well. But the second one is actually just to extend Mangi's question a little bit. And I was just thinking about is that if there is a topic which is, you know, something that is, you know, Bible related specifically, but, you know, a topic which is very, very, very much in the, in the, you know, very, very current. And where that topic can be consistent, consistent in a particular meeting, you know, meeting across all the groups. So that it's that topic is then, you know, actually, you know, selected, you know, from, you know, from the, from the main church and, you know, it is, it is discussed within the smaller groups, you know, consistently that is. And then, you know, getting the feedback and then the feedback goes back to the, to the church could be, could be an approach that may work because that way, you know, there is, there is consistency, but there is also a certain level of discussion which may not necessarily sort of filter up to, you know, to the church in itself. So just, just a suggestion over there. Yeah. Sure. Sure. Thank you so much, Christopher. Yes. To answer your first question, some of the ice breakers could be a simple quiz, you know, if there are 10 people divided into team A, team B, you can ask maybe 10 questions, a quiz from the Bible. That is one of the ice breakers. Two is doing, maybe we, maybe a small skit, like a dump charades kind of skit, and getting the people to say what they are, you know, what they're enacting. That's another option. Another ice breaker could be just an action song, right? Sing an action song in between. So yeah, you can come up with things like that, right? I'm sure the life group leaders will have many, many ideas, but these are things that I can think of. Like a quiz action song or something like, you know, this enacting and, you know, something like that. So those are some of the options. And yeah, Christopher, to answer your, thank you for sharing your second opinion. That's actually a good one, right? It can be done because it is maybe, you know, so if I got you right, we're trying to say that, you know, some topic that we covered, maybe a year back or so, can we revisit that topic across all life groups and talk about it. So probably two months just talk about that topic. Yes, that can be done because we know that, you know, that that is the material that's being discussed. We never thought, we never, we have never done it. We've never revisited and, you know, I think the reason is because what is done on Sunday, it's more current. So we usually think of discussing that, but this is something that it can be done, right? So yeah, but what I also would like to share to add to Mangi's question was, now there are some life groups, what they do is they meet one week and they talk about the Sunday sermon, they discuss open discussions and questions on the Sunday sermon. Then they meet online, right? And online, they talk about other topics, right? Maybe understanding the prophetic or gifts of the spirit or anything else. They talk about anything else. So there are some groups that do that as well, but then that's not considered as a life group, but they just meet together and, you know, discuss and pray and yes. So there are groups that way. So as far as I know, there are some women groups who, you know, they meet at APC. They meet every week and they discuss other topics. And we don't tell them you cannot discuss any other topic. They're open to discussing whatever they like. So yeah. All right, any other questions? We can close. All right. Great. Let's close in prayer and we'll pick up from this upward, inward model by Jim English. We'll pick it up from next week onwards. So anyone can please close in prayer. Mangi, would you like to close in prayer, please? Yes, first. Go ahead. Thank you, Father. Thank you for this time, Lord. Thank you for your grace. Thank you for your love. And thank you for your Holy Spirit, Father. That's why you've given us this opportunity, Lord, to learn, Father, giving us strength and if you're giving us understanding of such your work, Lord, may go forward. We prefer that you be with us, Lord. Teach us more, Lord, as we fall on what we've learned and as we will forward, Father, we pray that you guide us, Lord, and you also protect us and protect our families too. And you're much in heaven, Lord, we pray. Amen. Amen. Amen. Thank you so much, Mangi. Thank you, everyone, for joining. Have a wonderful week ahead. I'll see you next week. God bless. God bless.