 You're welcome back. It's still the run-up and we're glad to know that you're still there. The governor of Kaduna State, Nasir El-Rufai, says the Naira redesigned policy was initiated by a cabal around President Muhammad al-Buhari to cause chaos in the country and ultimately trigger military takeover of government. Mr. El-Rufai, who spoke during a live broadcast titled Let Us Stand Up Strongly for Democracy, Peace and National Unity, said some politicians who lost presidential and governmental primaries are behind the policy. He said the plan was to cause scarcity of Naira notes coupled with the shortage of fuel, which may lead to serious protest and military interruption of the nation's democracy. He added that those behind a new policy also hoped that the policy would compel the government to postpone elections, resulting in the enthronement of an interim government taking over. Also, the Speaker of the House of Representatives, Femi Bajabi Amila, described the pronouncement by the President Muhammad al-Buhari on the Naira policy as a disregard of the rule of law because it is short of the order of the Supreme Court. Now, we also have Governor Gandhi Jay, who is also saying that this will truncate democracy and so many other governors who have joined in the suit against the federal government saying that this policy must be stopped. Now, we're just looking at El-Rufai's statements and the interest behind what the governors are doing. El-Rufai said the policy was not conceived with the best of intentions and is aimed at stopping the all-progressive Congress presidential candidate, Bola Tinobu, from emerging president. Remember that Tinobu himself had said that this policy was targeted at him. Now, Tinobu, the governor of Kaduna State, Nassir El-Rufai, has asked residents of the state to continue to accept the old 500 Naira and 1,000 Naira notes as legal tender. We hoped to be joined by a legal professional, but until that is done, until he is able to join us, we're still here in the House just trying to ask ourselves what is really going on. Now, a few days ago, one of the spokespersons for the APP presidential campaign council, Femi Fani Coyote, made a statement that there's a plan. There's a coup d'etat that is being planned by the opposition, blah, blah, blah. And he was invited by the DSS. And after the grilling of this man, he came out and said he regretted it. I kind of liked the fact that it happened that way. A man of that understanding being invited and finding his feet backwards and saying that he made a mistake. And I'm wondering why some other people are still getting away with it. Now, what I would have loved to ask the later gentleman who we are hoping will join us before the end of the show is what is the difference between the statements that was made by Fani Coyote and that of Nassir El-Rufai, even though they say that what the president said was in contravention of what the Supreme Court had. I wouldn't want to say ruled, because even before the program, when we were talking with you, he said there's been no pronouncement. But I think the Supreme Court essentially has asked that the status quo be made. That is, they should keep using the old notes until the determination of the case before it, which means the old notes will still be legal tender. But you see, for me, there's huge suffering across the land. Tensions are high. Elections are close by. And so whatever anyone would say, especially public office holders, or those who are prominent or have prominent positions, I think has to be very guarded. You asked what the difference was between what Fani Coyote said and what Nassir El-Rufai has said. El-Rufai says there's a cabal. He didn't name anyone. He says there's a cabal around the president. And they have this ambition to cause chaos to the point where they will instigate a non-constitutional order, either an interim government or a non-constitutional change of power. Now, he is saying in my understanding what he thinks is the intention of this so-called cabal. Whereas for me, Fani Coyote categorically said, mentioned a particular day and said some people went and held meetings with generals. You see, that's a very categorical statement. And if you would say something like that publicly, you must be able to defend it. So I think this would be the two major differences in what both personalities said. But having said that, I think it's a very, very volatile situation. And whatever anyone is saying, of course, people should be free to express their opinion. But I think it should be done with a high sense of responsibility. Okay. We understand that Barista Okeue Sarafa Omoele has joined us. He's a Barista and Solicitor of the Supreme Court of Nigeria. Good morning and welcome to the program, Barista. Your audio seems to be breaking. I don't know if you're using an earpiece or something. Okay. Thank you for joining us. Okay. The earpiece. Okay. Now we're looking at the Naira redesign. The Supreme Court's pronouncement, that status quo should be maintained, the pronouncement by the president, Mohammad Buhari, kind of like meeting the Supreme Court and the CBN halfway or in the middle. And then what the governors are saying, especially like Governor Nassir El-Rufai, is saying about continuing to use the old Naira nodes and the plan by some people to scuttle the government and then install an interim government and all that. So before you join us, I was just asking my colleague, what is really the difference between what Governor Nassir El-Rufai has said and what Fanny Coyote, for instance, also said that was labeled as reasonable maybe and made the DSS to invite him for questioning. Now what is the weight and implication of what Nassir El-Rufai said? Because to some people, it seems as if there's a parallel government now, the federal government or the president made a pronouncement whether right or wrong, but he has also made his own pronouncements whether right or wrong. Tell us what are the implications of these are. I'll tell you very much to start with the Supreme Court ruling which says that the status quo and the state should be maintained. States of States and the President of the Supreme Court of Nigeria does not have that power to vary or try to, what you call a middle class. The rule was very, very clear that total land nodes, power land nodes, other land nodes should remain limited in Nigeria. So what the President said yesterday to my mind is simply content to this rule. I come to your question of comment of Dr. El-Rufai and Chief Fanny Coyote. It's just that when we are saying States and Nigeria doesn't, it means the same thing. What I'm telling you here is that what is happening currently is not an APC affair, it's not the decision of APC governments, but rather the decision of Presidency, the decision of APC. The government that went to come to challenge the decision are APC members. Let me say this, country policy is a policy of the party and the government and we agree with the entire tabernacle of the policy. But what it is due to is the timing and method being used in the implementation. To us, the timing is wrong and the is equally not sufficient. I thought it's finished. Sorry, I didn't want to interrupt you. I thought you had finished, but maybe you should finish and then I will ask the question. Yes sir. Finally, what the government is doing or else is doing by inviting Chief Fanny Coyote for an interview, they are only chasing the shadow. The signs are very clear. Nigerians are not happy. We want to express it currently. What Nigerians are expressing are a better imagination. Let me use myself as a case story. I have money in the bank. I cannot assess it. I'm begging for 500 Naira, 1000 Naira, before I am able to do anything. What I said initially is that the timing is wrong. Thank you. Okay, Barista Amoy Ali. Some people suggest that by not joining the central bank, to this case that was filed, that was probably not right. But you are a legal person, so you were able to enlighten us on that. What would be your reaction? Whether that is true, central bank has come down and there are three parties. Not that about that. But what is there is this. The governments that went to cause deliberately left out CBN and CBN Govno because of the time of their action. Is CBN Govno and CBN a joint? That the matter could be entirely different from the other governments. But the only difference is that CBN and CBN govno. So what is there is this. What is there is this. What is there is this. What is there is this. What is there is this. What is there is this. So the supervise and teams of CBN and CBN Govno. So when the president is joined, it is presumed that it is expected to give directive to CBN and CBN Govno. So the will be a legal tender for 60 days, while 1,000 and 200,000 nodes will no longer be legal tender. It's time to vary the ruling of Supreme Court. So to my mind, yes, CBN and CBN governor ought to have been joined at Leicester Parties. Do you want to ask? Ask a major question. This is a question for a yes or no answer if it's possible. Are you now telling us that at the end of the day, CBN is not independent? Because if they can be dictated to any time by the executive, why don't see any independence in it? Well, there's checks and balances in governance. There's no arm of governance that's totally independent. CBN is a creation of the arts, and it adds its own arts, regulating its activities. But they are to be reporting to the president as the chief executive of the federal executive council. So because it's a pointing authority, the law that set up CBN gives them the rights to give their electives to the CBN governor. That's the arts. Okay, but the same executive appoints, well, there's a fight now that the appointment of the chief justice and all that. But whoever appoints another person has the right, that's what it tells us. If whoever appoints someone to a place can just dictate to the person. And it confirms. That's the implication. Okay, right now, no, he wants to react. I said with this, as the president appoints CBN governor, know that CBN has an arts that stipulates its mode of operation. One of it, of course, is that for certain decisions, particularly currency redesigning, CBN must inform the president and president must give a go ahead because of its impacts in so many things that makes up a nation. Okay, well, there's an issue you raised that I really wanted to ask you about. So many reasons that you said people are against this policy right now. One of them is the timing. One of them is the timing. What's really the issue about the timing? Because if people are going to suffer with a bad policy, they will suffer at any time. What is the main thing about this timing that is so wrong? Sorry, let me correct one impression. The policy is not bad. It is a very good policy. If the policy starts fully, Nigeria and Nigeria's will be the better for it. Most of us take that. Cashless policy will address a lot of our security breaches. A lot of criminality is now. But about timing is this. December period is always in a period that everybody spends a lot of money, Christmas celebration, traveling and what have you. Then January is a period that most parents pay their children's school fees. We spent in December for festive period. We are actually January, we are paying school fees and other expenses. Now, which means there will naturally be scarce resources, which means people just be struggling to make up for what they are spending December in January. Workers must have their salary for December and January will not come earlier than first week in February. December, January is always a tough time for everybody in this country economically, but we are just recovering, we are just settling down. If we don't bring a policy that will take money out of circulation this period in time, when naturally we normally struggle to make money in January, then you can point our problem. That's why people are thinking that the timing is number one, number two. The timing is short. We should be given at least six months and that's the provision of the CBN arts that want to resign Naira. It should be within six months. You and I know that December 5, 2022 was when the new Naira notes was launched. Within December 5 and January 15 or thereabouts, the new notes were scarce, as anything you can think of, which means from December 5, we want to be having the new Naira notes in our borders, but reverse is the case. As I speak, the new Naira notes are scarce. If you want to take away old notes, you must ensure that you have enough new notes and mutual agreement. If you listen to that analysis, the number of new notes printed for short of the required new notes that are supposed to be printed. That's what people are saying. It's a delivery policy by some elements to cause security breach in the nation. In that good intention, you know money is, in the times I've not talked about this in this country, and that we're not used to cashless policy for now. You must provide enough money. Take for instance, if I get to POIs or I get to my bank, I'm able to get 20,000 Naira per day, maybe the complaint will not be as much as this. I get to a bank, I get my 10,000 Naira, you get your own, they all be complete as much as this. But we couldn't access our money, 2,000, 1,000. Some people stayed by the ATA for eight hours, they were only paid 2,000. And that is why people felt it's deliberate. Some saboteurs are involved. That's what we're saying. If you give us enough time, with time, everything will evolve, and we're just to the new reality. Okay, Barista. I submit. Thank you, Barista. Before you go, just one last question. When the politicians suggest that it's just a group of people who are trying to create chaos, yet it's the president who has made a public broadcast, who has provided an extension to at least one commonly used currency, which is the 200 Naira, to remain for 60 days, is there still a merit in the argument that it's just a cabal? To my mind, what preference of not being addressed at all? Because a president cannot say that he should go rock and be very the other of the ISCOT of the land. The other is very simple. Upnotes should remain a little tender until the other one is handed by the ISCOT in the land. What the other is very proud to do is to give CPN governor directive until the other one is directed. Old notes, new notes, should be in circulation on other notices. It's more honorable. Nobody loses anything in between notes and circulation. Nobody. I tell you masses, poor masses, are feeling the pain more, not the bourgeoisie, not the political class, not the capitalists. We masses are feeling it's more, as people are believing, as a deliberate policy to scuttle democratic process we are embarking upon. Barbarista, wouldn't it be a better argument that the president should direct the CPN or whoever is responsible to print enough notes that will go round, rather than saying that the old notes must remain in circulation? Was the rationale behind that? Because if you have the new notes very sufficient for everybody, it would be a better thing. Wouldn't it also be a better argument for the people to talk to those who are responsible for online banking to be seamless, to sit up and upgrade their facilities to make sure that online banking is good enough? Because all the transactions, major transactions, a lot of people I know have made paying school fees and all that, was done online, but the only problem is that it took too much time. Wouldn't that be, those kind of arguments, be better than saying old notes must be in circulation? Now even if we are crying, people are also suspect that maybe these old notes, especially in the denominations that can be hoarded somewhere, that is 500 and 1000 narrow notes, they are suspect that okay maybe it really has been hoarded somewhere. And the president said something about national security and all that, and you have confirmed it as well, that it's going to be a good thing and it's already showing some signs. So why wouldn't we be arguing about something that will be a better talking point, rather than saying old notes must continue? Now let me clear this, online banking is elitist in nature. We must get that one right. It's elitist. We are just trying to introduce it to our people now with this cashless policy. One government in the north, but cannot state governments told us that out of their own, I mean local government in cannot states, maybe about 13 or so local governments have banks. Other local government about 30 or so are not having banks, are not having POS. Now what we are saying of course is this, the policy is good, but that is usually raised about president directing the CBN to print more new notes. Yes, but we must know one thing, it's a process that will not be done overnight, that will not be done in a day, that will not be done in a week. Now what that happens in one to two weeks, I know to be printed. That's what people are saying, that we have old notes. They are live value. They do not need anything. Just push the old notes out to circulation. Not all, few ones. So as to ameliorate the suffering of our people. Okay. All right. Well, Barista, Barista would like to thank you for, would like to thank you for coming on the show. We wish that we had more time. Yeah, but we're still going to engage you because I know that whether the policy is reversed today or not, there are still going to be issues that will come up and we hope that you will oblige us anytime that we call you. Okay. Thank you very much for that. That was Barista Oqewoie Omoiele. I hope I got that right. Omoiele. Omoiele. Okay. He was talking to us about the Nara redesign and all the, would I call it power play around it and all that. And well, he has given insight from his own perspective and I do hope that you learn something from there. But we don't have much time right now. We need to take a short break for the news. And when we return, we're going to deal with other issues concerning the same topic that we've been talking about. Stay with us.